Whitetail in 8-1 Osoyoos

[dawn2dusk]

Hi

I won my first whitetail anterless LEH tag for 8-1. Opens Oct 10. I am planning on going from Oct 10 to Oct 15.

I live on Vancouver Island and am fairly new to hunting deer (have never actually bagged one myself, helped clean my buddies last year). I am really looking forward to getting of the island and learning about some new country and whitetails, combine this with the increased likelyhood of bagging a doe (sounds like a given from what I have read on this site). I'm just stoked. Maybe I get a chance at a buck too as Mule and WT are wide open.

I have been practising at the range every other weekend with my trusty .308 (free hand shots too). Confident out to 200yrds. Have also been reading and watching lots of DVD's. Have been practising grunts, doe bleats, and rattling. I am guessing that by middle of Oct the bucks should be splitting up and starting to get pretty aggressive towards one another. Should i try rattlin them in followed by an estrous doe in heat bleat and a couple buck grunts? Does this work? Are there any tips on general location I should focus on in this MU, tactics, etc. Feel free to PM me. ANy advice from anyone who has hunted WT in this areas would be great.

Thanks alot.

[Rainwater]

No bleating, grunting, rattling needed. Just drive around and one will stand in a clear cut and let you shoot it. Or sit on a stump at the edge of a 2nd or 3rd year clear cut with trails coming in. This is not the best Whitie area, try 8-12, 8-14 next year.

[30-06]

you should have no problem bagging your doe.

[Schmaus]

Just make sure you get good at identifying a whitetail doe and a muley doe, so you shoot the right one.

[dawn2dusk]

Thanks for reply rainwater. Sounds pretty easy. Will this work for bucks too? should I try to locate myself near farm land or not important, whities like the slashes too?

[Rainwater]

You are a little early for the rut but your most important asset will be patience. You should be looking up near Camp Mckinny on the Baldy Road just outside of Oliver but watch for the height of land sign to denote the change in MU's. I always have good luck if I'm in a spot at least one half hour before daylight and stay real still and quiet. I would not be calling and grunting during your hunt. Good Luck, Whitetail Doe chops are to die for, don't let anyone tell you to make pepperoni.

[Jelvis]

I concur with mt. baldy area is the place to go. hunt early hunt late go hard or well you know the rest. Take a good size deer. Rainwater, has some good knowledge. Take your time and place the shot where you want it to go. Take a few pictures too. good huntin Jel

[ruger#1]

becarefull mount baldy is close to the border line of 8-12, there are also whites in keromeos, lots up in the ok falls area, hunt east of the okanagon river whites to the east and mulies to the west, i also have a whitetail draw for 8-01, anacrest hill has a fair amount of white and mulies,camp mckinny is in 8-12, west side of baldy is 8-01 and the east is 8-12. also look for turkeys , there is also elk in that area.mid nov when bucks are starting to rut up there.

[ruger#1]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/699antlers_2_0021.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=911&ppuser=699)Here are a couple of whitetails i shot in 1996 , area 8-12 , just before dark, two headshots with a 7x57 mauser, 160grn nosler partitions, and these were very good eating.

[Jelvis]

Are whitetails smarter than mulies and blacktails? I'd like to know if those two whitetails were running when they were shot? What do you say, ruger# uno

[ruger#1]

no they wernt running they walked out infront of me. lucky them, and i would say smartest is blacktail then whitetail then mulies. if you look at my gallery, you will see the #1 blacktail of my hunting parterners. also those two white were shot at 75 yards. i have never shot a running animal yet, and i have shot alot of deer.those two deer were also taken at the end of september.

[Rainwater]

Yah those are nice bucks, of course now you can only shoot one which we hope will help bring back the "big buck" population of the late 80's. If your goin for the doe try and take a dry one or if need be take the yearling. You won't get much meat but you will never taste better chops in your life. Don't forget to look for those small ears, long light brown tail (hopefully not waving at you). These are smart deer but they have one fault and that is consistency using the same area until really disturbed, then they just work at night. As far as Whities in Keremeos there is some but mostly on Indian reserves which is off limits.

[dawn2dusk]

Wow! Nice bucks ruger#1. Nevermind two, one would be amazing. Thanks all for the tips on location and identity of WT. Will scout out a good spot (using some air photos and topo maps for around Mt. Anarchist, maybe just to the east of it looks good) and drive/scope around first day and setup well before dawn next day. Rainwater - it sounds like I should stand hunt. Need to bother with camo? or just worry more about wind direction and keepin still and quiet? I guess I should be looking for game trails if their so consistent in travel patterns and just setup adjacent too?

No way I will take a doe if she has a fawn. Although I imagine a fawn would be tastey, I have a family to feed. What is the best sized doe to take in regards to the management of the herd? I thought the reason they had doe harvesting was to keep the herd at a balanced and sustainable size relative to their habitat. Based on this, I guess it would be best to take a doe that is just entering breeding age this fall but not bred last year (was a fawn and wont have a fawn)? would this be a two year old and kinda small?


Now if I see a Turkey (beyond my hunting partner :grin: ) I will do all I can to get that on the dinner table. What are the chances of coming across some Turkey Ruger#1? I read they are quite wiley.

Again a big thanks to you posters, appreciate your sharings with a beginner.

And I if I bag something, will post some photos.

[Rainwater]

I have never seen a turkey there. My advice is find some deer early morning and if you get a chance go for it. If not, sneak in there about two hours before dark and set up (camo is good) and wait, patience and no movin around. Good Luck.

[Jelvis]

I wouldn't get worried about deer fawns being destitute like a calf moose A Ist winter fawn if something happened to its mother, got killed etc the fawn will join in another deer family quite well. A 1st winter calf moose is different. Moose are mainly solitary animals until rut and bad winters (yard up) A 1st winter calf could be destitute, with out Mom. A first birth doe has one, then if healthy, has twins the next after. Deer herd can be a lot bigger the next spring if all does have twins, but, Winter range can handle so many animals and then some will die of natural selection. Also game count by helicopters are there, to see whats going on. You won't be able to tell if the doe has a fawn all the time. Thats why its antlerless and antler season. Not buck and doe anymore, right or wrong? When you see a nice legal animal, take your time, keep breathing, slow down, take control of the situation. Don't let the situation control you. Goood shootin Jel

[cowboy-up69]

Hey. I got the whitey doe draw for rock creek area, shouldnt have a problem baggin a doe in any of the areas in the Okanagan. Good luck eh!

[Rainwater]

I guess I do agree somewhat with Jelvis that a whitetail fawn will survive. I would only question why you would take an animal with a fawn that obviously will have another fawn the following year, in other words a prime breeding animal. IMO only.

[mapguy]

Hi

I won my first whitetail anterless LEH tag for 8-1. Opens Oct 10. I am planning on going from Oct 10 to Oct 15.

I live on Vancouver Island and am fairly new to hunting deer (have never actually bagged one myself, helped clean my buddies last year). I am really looking forward to getting of the island and learning about some new country and whitetails, combine this with the increased likelyhood of bagging a doe (sounds like a given from what I have read on this site). I'm just stoked. Maybe I get a chance at a buck too as Mule and WT are wide open.

I have been practising at the range every other weekend with my trusty .308 (free hand shots too). Confident out to 200yrds. Have also been reading and watching lots of DVD's. Have been practising grunts, doe bleats, and rattling. I am guessing that by middle of Oct the bucks should be splitting up and starting to get pretty aggressive towards one another. Should i try rattlin them in followed by an estrous doe in heat bleat and a couple buck grunts? Does this work? Are there any tips on general location I should focus on in this MU, tactics, etc. Feel free to PM me. ANy advice from anyone who has hunted WT in this areas would be great.

Thanks alot.anarchist mtn might have a few whitetail

[ruger#1]

there are so many white tails there that i wouldnt worry. and there are a few turkey. take a owl hooter call to locate the bird. then you have to go to it. and listen to the squrils chattering, they will give your spot away, they also give a deers spot away,try lamont rd up on the anacrest, just before the rest stop on the left hand side. used to see lots of whites there. there are also subdivision going in around by the hyway, might have to go in alot further. there used to be an old homestead there. with a big feild around it, found lots of whites there and also chased up some cow elk. watch out for open range cows.

[ruger#1]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/att00006.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2279&ppuser=699)Hey dusk maybe one of these whitetails, watch out for the fawns, check out the coyotes by the house.

[Jelvis]

Do you know that whitetail deer fawns can breed the first year, or do you think thats absolutely crazy. I mean I've heard up to 40 to 60% of the fawns can actually breed, is this true or has somebody pulled the whitetail deer hide over my eyes? At 6 or 7 month old they can become pregnant if they have the proper protein diet. They breed a full month later than the mature females. What do you as a hunter in B.C. think of this. Believe it or not? Jel

[dawn2dusk]

Thanks for info Ruger#1. Is it worth approaching some of the private farm land owners in that area to let them know what I'm up to and maybe see if their ok with me hunting on or around their land? Are they pretty open to hunters around there? Lots of crown access? Your allowed within 100m of farm though eh? Here what in regs unless there is some local bylaws:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wild/documents/h&t_synopsis_06_07.pdf

"It is unlawful to hunt or discharge a
firearm within 100 metres of a church,
school building, school yard, playground,
regional district park, dwelling house, or
farm or ranch building that is occupied by
persons or domestic animals."

Hey Ruger#1, I saw coyotes in that great pic (i was inspecting a little denser herd based on your previous post), but did you see bowhunter in kitchen window?

[dawn2dusk]

Hey Jelvis

Pretty wild if fawn can be receptive in first year, surfed around and I think its true:

"Weather, growing season, range conditions, heredity, and physical condition all play a role in when doe fawns are bred. Large doe fawns may Breed when only six to nine months old, usually bearing a single fawn. However, for the doe fawns that develop slower, Breeding may be held off until 16 to 19 months old."
ref. http://www.highmtnwhitetails.com/whitetail_deer_info.asp
same words at this site
http://www.ozarkshuntnfish.com/id66.htm

[Rainwater]

Dawn to Dusk, Don't worry about private land over there as there is not as much farm land as in the Christian Valley. Head up the Baldy Rd and take any logging road into a 2nd or 3rd year clear cut. Don't forget your height of land. Another good spot is just out of Osoyoos on the Anarchist but there is some private land up there also, mostly subdivisions.

[ruger#1]

you could talk to some farm owners.turkeys have been seen on baldy road. there is an indian reseve, in that area to. try not to hunt there. also some fawns are also still feeding off of the mothers. there is lots of area to hunt and lots of roads to explore. hell my father has them looking in his kitchen window, up in oliver.i will try to post a pic.

[ruger#1]

(https://webmail.shaw.ca/attach/DSC00116.jpg?sid=zcn3P8oTsiU&mbox=INBOX&charset=escaped_unicode&uid=1677&number=7&filename=DSC00116.jpg) here is the pic, this fawn was stillhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/DSC00116.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2997&size=big&cat=500) feeding off of its mother. It is also a muledeer. this is just 2 mins out of oliver.

[GoatGuy]

Yah those are nice bucks, of course now you can only shoot one which we hope will help bring back the "big buck" population of the late 80's.

I didn't know that was why they changed it -- how's it working????

[ruger#1]

What they need to do is thin out the doe population..ive hunted up there in the eighties and it is the same as it is now.two years ago up on the anacrest i seen 8 buck during the 4 point only season, they were 3 points and lower. there are lots of bucks out there. hunt in the woods not on the road. find the honey holes.look for apple trees. some times you'll find one in the woods, all so look for water and hunt in that area.

[ratherbefishin]

if it is ''unlawful to discharge a firearm within 100 yards of a ''CHURCH'',school yard, school building, playground,farm or ranch building that is occupied....then all the guys who say they don't go to church because their church is the ''great outdoors''may have a problem here.....because technically, they could hunt, spot a trophy buck but couldn't ''discharge'' a firearm-and that would he ''hell'' wouldn't it?

[Radar]

I like that ratherbefisghin, a little chuckle in the morning is a good thing!

[Rainwater]

The local club up in the Kettle was witness to the whack and stack mentality that happened when the two buck season first opened up. This was a late hunt and guys had shot lots of mature bucks, gamepoles were filled with deer. They requested the change to one buck through the local MOE and it was agreed upon. It has taken some time to recover and there are still mature deer to be taken. They get a little nocturnal by the end of hunting season however.

[GoatGuy]

The local club up in the Kettle was witness to the whack and stack mentality that happened when the two buck season first opened up. This was a late hunt and guys had shot lots of mature bucks, gamepoles were filled with deer. They requested the change to one buck through the local MOE and it was agreed upon. It has taken some time to recover and there are still mature deer to be taken. They get a little nocturnal by the end of hunting season however.


Amazing that one club could change the season and quota for the entire region.

Glad to hear that due to the regs the deer are recovering and there are some mature deer to be taken now-I must have been a really lucky hunter to find the remaining non-nocturnal bucks the past 9 years.

[ruger#1]

wow thanks for the fairy tail.if you get off the road, you will find big mature bucks if you like to road hunt. then you can have the small ones. there is a big problem with deer ticks in that area. and some winter kill.to change a whole region to on buck by one club is a joke im with goatguy and ive hunted in that area with my father when i was 16, and now im 43. the only thing that has changed up there is more housing developments. and most of the time ive shot my deer around 10am, during the rut.

[Rainwater]

That's just smart huntin, when guys are back at camp cooking bacon and eggs at 10 or 11 your shootin your deer. I also hunted there for the last 30 years and if anyone tells you it's as good now as it was when they first opened it late and had a two buck limit is really spinnin a yarn. Just keep being a smart hunter and you will get your buck. By the time bow season comes around the deer are really movin at noon. I beleive that a local club which is made up of locals will usually have a better take on game populations and have a more vested interest in their well being. Input at regulations meetings are taken from other user groups but we usually trust the locals opinions. If you don't let locals have a say then the bio makes the decision and we have seen where that can take us sometimes. I certainly wouldn't be making recomendations about the blacktail herd on the Island from up country just cause I go there hunting once a year.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Here's pic of a non-nocturnal mature okanagan buck taken during rifle season last year by my partner at about 2:30pm. The mature buck #'s are definitely on the rise.
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/CopyofPicture012.jpg

SSS

[ratherbefishin]

yah funny that,come to think of it most of my ''rut'' bucks were shot about 10 in the morning-don't know why.Maybe its because they are on the move all day long

[Rainwater]

Yes that it is a beaut'

[talver]

congats great looking deer and it was a non nocturnal . It always strikes me kinda odd that if hunter dont see game they will assume the game has become nocturnal, but they never get far enough out of there vechiles or get off their quads to walk around to find the where the game has gone. Prime example 2 years ago a friend of mine shot a huge bull moose just after talking to a group that was packing up to leave the area becuase they figured the game in the area had become nocturnal due to the increased traffic in the area

[Islandeer]

:) That my friend is a bonifide piss-cutter of a buck!! Looks like he scored in the high 150's to mid 160's. Beauty.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I believe he grossed 176" but since he's a basic 6x5 he took a hit in deductions and only netted 161"ish. If he had a matching point on his right side he'd be pushing upper 170's-180" as a typical. Ya, I know. Coulda, woulda, shoulda:roll: but who wouldn't be happy with him?

SSS

[GoatGuy]

That's just smart huntin, when guys are back at camp cooking bacon and eggs at 10 or 11 your shootin your deer. I also hunted there for the last 30 years and if anyone tells you it's as good now as it was when they first opened it late and had a two buck limit is really spinnin a yarn. Just keep being a smart hunter and you will get your buck. By the time bow season comes around the deer are really movin at noon. I beleive that a local club which is made up of locals will usually have a better take on game populations and have a more vested interest in their well being. Input at regulations meetings are taken from other user groups but we usually trust the locals opinions. If you don't let locals have a say then the bio makes the decision and we have seen where that can take us sometimes. I certainly wouldn't be making recomendations about the blacktail herd on the Island from up country just cause I go there hunting once a year.
There's a whole lot more behind the decision than what you state. Most of it was due to a bad winter-the change to mule deer 4 pt also had a dramatic affect.

The two buck season ran for quite some time ( possibly earlier than 93 to 98 I believe - after reviewing the harvest I know it didn't hurt the population and the real problem was a bad winter. While there were more bucks taken there were fewer white-tail hunters. There were also plenty of big bucks taken all the way to 96 - if things were half as bad as you stated 6 years would have killed of all bucks. Course days per kill were lower until 1996 than they were uptil the last couple years because of a bad winter. Doe days per kill also spiked in 1997 after the bad winter.

The same trend happened with muley's -- due to changes in antler restrictions/season length and the big one was a really tough winter.

If our winters keep up you'll probably see the seasons changed to create more opportunity. Lots of reg 4 has already gone back to late seasons and 2 bucks - doubt it'll be long before we see changes.

This gets at it indirectly

"4.8.3 Mule & White-tailed Deer

These two species are considered somewhat complimentary, depending on the part of the region, as they can both be hunted at the same time and hunting seasons usually coincide. As shown in Figure 4.4 from 1987 to 1997 the hunters per management unit averaged 35.5% more Mule Deer hunters than White-tailed deer hunters annually. This is despite longer White-tailed Deer seasons and a limit of two White-tailed bucks (in some MUs) as opposed to one Mule buck throughout the region. In 1998, there is a significant decrease in Mule Deer hunters and a slight increase in White-tailed Deer hunters; this coincides with an implementation of 4 point Mule Deer during the majority of the hunting season. From 1998 to 2004 the number of Mule Deer hunters averaged 5.2% more hunters annually than White-tailed Deer hunters. This suggests that point or antler restrictions may have an effect on participation."

There have been plenty of BC book bucks killed since and it'll only get better unless we have another bad winter. Don't think for a moment that the 2 buck limit was the demise of whitetail's in reg 8.

[Islandeer]

I love this topic! Whitetails, given the non-liberal seasons that we hunt them in, can not be overhunted. We all know that they are the sneakiest ungulates out there. In many areas of the Province they are at all time highs, remember that they are newcomers to our provivce. They were not as common as they are now in the Peace, Okanogan and Kootenay areas. So when we get a real BC winter, they die off. This fact illustrates that the carrying capacity of the land is finite, so a two deer limit when numbers are up is good resourse management for us hunters. The reason the biologists refrain from doing this is because when a 2 deer limit coincides with a killer winter they get blamed for shooting all the deer. The East kootenay is at that stage now, incredible numbers of Whiteys, it is a classic eg of the game exceeding the carrying capacity of the land. We have observed that in the past few years the yearling bucks are very small with little spikes, while a few years back they were larger with forks up top. In 1996 BC got nailed with a tough winter which wiped out all those excess animals the local hunting advisoray commitees were campaigning for. It will happen again, but hopefully not before i get a biggie!!

[Jelvis]

Excuse ny ignorance but is there trees producing acorns in MU 8:01 like oak trees or are they only some where else cause I heard whitetail like acorns and apples etc. also in 8:01 is there lots of deciduos trees or mostly evergreen. Question oak trees in 8:01?

[Islandeer]

Lots of apples in the orchards, don't thonk their are any native oaks there, but could be wrong. The local boys will have that info.

[ruger#1]

no oak trees, lots of scrub brush and poplar trees, there is the odd apple tree out in the bush.lots of alfalfa feilds and other grazeing areas. and it is true what goat guy has said. winter kill has a lot to do with the 1 whitetail a year.

[Rainwater]

We can blame whatever we want on the whitetail or mule deer herds decline some years but it's still up to us to step up to the plate right. That two buck limit had an effect on the population and the Kettle Valley Wildlife Assc. was right!

[ruger#1]

1999 is when they changed it to one whitetail,there were some harsh winters before that, forest fires had an impact on the elk in princton so i hope the kettle valley wildlife assc. didnt have an impact on that one to. region eight is a very big area.

[Rainwater]

That area is where most of the Regions Whitetail hunting occurs, that and 8-15. Now having said that Whities are showin up more and more in other areas so you can just about find them anywhere. I guess for us that live here l whitie is just fine.

[ratherbefishin]

what about the whitetail doe population -is it under or over optimum buck/doe ratio's and how does predation factor into the population

[Jelvis]

The whitetails are taking over, are they more agressive than mulies or are they just lovin all the agriculture. the farms the ranches in area MU 8:01 Osoyoos? They maybe can adapt to human encroachment better. What do you local boys think is the reason?

[GoatGuy]

Most w/t hunters=
1)8-14
2)8-12
3)8-10
4)8-15

The change in seasons was to help the deer recover at an accelerated rate from a bad winter.

[Mckinney Creek Adventures]

These guys are all sending you in the right directions. Stay on the east side of the valley to the height of land running through Baldy and stormy mountain, up to OK Falls. You will not have a problem finding a nice eating doe for your table. Good eating criters!

[dawn2dusk]

3 days left until I leave for Osoyoos. Having a very hardtime staying focused on work. Got all the gear packed. Triple checkled. Leavin SUnday morning.

If any of you huntingbc members are out in 8-1 next week and see a red B4000 mazda with a CT90 on the back feel free to wave me down.

Anyone know where there are coolers in the area where I could hang a deer for a couple days?

[atri]

Good luck on your hunt.

We aren't going for a two weeks yet but already, I can't seem to focus on anything but hunting.

Be safe out there and bring back some pics.

[greybark]

Hey Goat-Guy , You are right about the bad winters affecting the WT numbers . As i recall several years prior to the TWO successive bad winters the GOS season was extended from the 15 Nov to the 25 Nov to "smack down the WT" . The biolgist at the time had two points - The bowhunters (9 days reduced to 4days season) were not harvesting enough WT`s and the WT were encroaching on the MD which they were trying to enhance .
The number of mature WT harvested in the extended seasons resulted in what i saw and believed was excessive . Then came the two bad winters in question and the WT (mature bucks) never fully recouvered untill 2-3 years ago .

[Mckinney Creek Adventures]

Sounds like the weather will be cooling off a bit for you during your hunt. That is a good thing. There are a couple of butcher in Oliver. Not sure if they will just hang for you. They are Willowbrook Meats, B&B Meats (Bob Byers). There is one other that I cannot think of the name. Not sure about Osoyoos. Here in Rock Creek we have several as well if you are hunting or travelling out this way.

Good luck.

[dawn2dusk]

Sounds like the weather will be cooling off a bit for you during your hunt. That is a good thing. There are a couple of butcher in Oliver. Not sure if they will just hang for you. They are Willowbrook Meats, B&B Meats (Bob Byers). There is one other that I cannot think of the name. Not sure about Osoyoos. Here in Rock Creek we have several as well if you are hunting or travelling out this way.

Good luck.

Thanks Mckinney. I am going to try and hang in a tree but glad to have some phone numbers in my wallet in case the weather goes warm. Forecast looks like it is going to get a warm and sunny again toward end of next week. I have some #'s for rock creek area from this thread http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=7665

Only two days now!! maybe just leave tomorrow going to drive the wife crazy anyways