"Shot placement is key"

[bcfirefly]

Saw a good thread earlier on shot placement on a Grizz. New to hunting and just thought I'd see what peoples thoughts are on shot placement. We'll use the following scenario;
100 - 150 yards
broadside
quartering away
shot location for each position for moose, sheep/goat (wish i could get that close to one of those!!!), elk, grizz / black, bison.
The bear thread had pretty much a 50/50 lung vrs busting a shoulder. Bison has a different anatomy so looking for input there.
Lets see what you guys think.
Thanks!

[Gateholio]

If you want to drop a broadside animal on the spot, shoot on the leg line, 1/3 up from the bottom of the chest. That ensures wrecking the "shoulders" and hitting the heart/lungs. Works for everything, but does wreck some meat. If you aren't worried about it running a bit, getting to cover, etc, then destroying the lungs without hitting bone will kill anything in short order.

[Big G Hunter]

I took SRUPP advice just last weekend when I got my Grizzly, he was quartering to me, first shot through left shoulder,exit behind right shoulder, second shot in engine room from left to right. Then my buddy spined him. Found both my bullets against hide. 30-06 180gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. From 66yards.

[todbartell]

quartering away, aim for the offside shoulder

[killer_shot]

from what i was told by one of the members from our hunting club who has hunted bison you have to shoot it in the bottom third of its chest and its not advised to shoot the bones especially the head as they can redirect the bullet away from the vitals. He even said that someone shot a bison strait on above the nose and the bullet want through the hide along the surface of the bone and out the forehead not phasing the animal. at the end of the day i havent seen many animals go far when you shoot em in the lungs/liver/heart. But i wouldent shoot a large north american predator with anything less than 200gr bullet.

[elkdom]

from what i was told by one of the members from our hunting club who has hunted bison you have to shoot it in the bottom third of its chest and its not advised to shoot the bones especially the head as they can redirect the bullet away from the vitals. He even said that someone shot a bison strait on above the nose and the bullet want through the hide along the surface of the bone and out the forehead not phasing the animal. at the end of the day i havent seen many animals go far when you shoot em in the lungs/liver/heart. But i wouldent shoot a large north american predator with anything less than 200gr bullet.

Bison Ranchers routinely dispatch 1500,1800, 2000 pound bison with a 30-30 slug in the "MELON" from 30 or 40 yards,
they drop like a $ack-of-$hit,

on the other hand I personally watched an Uber-Hunter shoot a mature bull bison at 90 yards 4 times in the shoulder broadside with a .300 Wind Bag Mag and 200 grn Noslers, the bison casually walked away and died about 200 yards away,,,

[killer_shot]

Bison Ranchers routinely dispatch 1500,1800, 2000 pound bison with a 30-30 slug in the "MELON" from 30 or 40 yards,
they drop like a $ack-of-$hit,

on the other hand I personally watched an Uber-Hunter shoot a mature bull bison at 90 yards 4 times in the shoulder broadside with a .300 Wind Bag Mag and 200 grn Noslers, the bison casually walked away and died about 200 yards away,,,

they probably know exactly where in the head to shoot it like the temple not the front of the head, from what i have been told when you draw a bison tag they send you a panflet and it specifically tell you not to take a head shot. Dont doubt that ranchers do it all day long but there has to be some technique

[elkdom]

they probably know exactly where in the head to shoot it like the temple not the front of the head, from what i have been told when you draw a bison tag they send you a panflet and it specifically tell you not to take a head shot. Dont doubt that ranchers do it all day long but there has to be some technique

right in the middle of the forehead with a 30-30 , 170 grn soft point, leaves a neat little hole about the size of a 10 cent coin !

[srupp]

hmmm shot a few cattle with head shots..there is a technique for head shots..and this does NOT apply to big game hunting EVER..

Killer _shot,, you got BAD advice... read what Gatehouse recomends... bears are different than all other BC big game...and has been hashed over add -nauseum...check this site.....

cheers
Steven

[hunter1947]

If you want to drop a broadside animal on the spot, shoot on the leg line, 1/3 up from the bottom of the chest. That ensures wrecking the "shoulders" and hitting the heart/lungs. Works for everything, but does wreck some meat. If you aren't worried about it running a bit, getting to cover, etc, then destroying the lungs without hitting bone will kill anything in short order.

I agree with gatehouse the shoulder shot for sure and keep in mind that if it is a goat or sheep you want to drop them where they stand you don't want the sheep or goat to run over a cliff and breaking there horns or hard to get to..

[BCBRAD]

shoulder shots if you don't want the animal to wander, lung shots for no meat damage......so shoulder in the evening , lungs in the morning, aim at the lower 1/3rd line if you think its close and the upper 1/3rd line if far away, I know I tend to shot high on an off hand game shot. works for me on lots of game animals.

[steel_ram]

Shoulder shots on bears. Break them! If you can, hit them again. Don't worry about a bit of meat. As you may have read through these frums the last few weeks, mortally wounded bears that make it to cover have a habit of disappearing.

[500grhollowpoint]

I'm not a bear hunter but it's rare I'll take a head shot. Having sead that, I did pop a deer between the eyes at about 60 yds a couple of years ago. I was going fishing with the wife and kids, had my rifle with me because it was hunting season, saw a deer right in the middle of the road! It ran down a steep bank covered in fallen treees and tripped over one and stuck it's head up over the tree to look back at me. BANG

I agree that most time head shots are not the way to go, except grouse whem you have no .22 or shotgun on you. Or Zombies.

[bearhunter338-06]

I also agree shoulder shots to drop the animal. I don't like to track as much as I did when I was younger.

I shot one buffalo with my Marlin 35 Rem. One shot 20 yards open sights 200gr Remington Kor Loct just above it's eyes..............dropped dead on the spot

My hunting buddy and me have an agreement when hunting bears, we keep shooting till theres no movement............:mrgreen:

[bcfirefly]

thanks for the input guys.
forgot about the head shots for zombies!
just have to keep practicing the standing quick shots, easy to hit what i'm aiming at on the bench or prone.

[RiverOtter]

He even said that someone shot a bison strait on above the nose and the bullet want through the hide along the surface of the bone and out the forehead not phasing the animal.

The "ONLY" bullets I have ever seen STOPPED by a skull were 40 grainers out of a 22 LR. That was in a slaughter house, and it involved old boar/sow pigs and old hereford bulls, and the bullets didn't "riccochet" or "glance" off, but simply melted flat into the skull, before they reached the brain. A 410 with bird shot to the upper fore head was the answer to those rare occurances.

Anyone who told me a Bison or Grizzly shrugged off a high powered rifle bullet to the fore head, would lose all credibility instantly.........

[Drillbit]

Shot my grizzly on the long weekend. One shot through the heart/lungs broadside. The bear was eating and didn't know I was there. 220 yards with a Benelli 30-06, 150 grn SST. Big exit hole. Rolled off the road and only made another 10 feet.

Shot placement is key for sure.

[Walking Buffalo]

The "ONLY" bullets I have ever seen STOPPED by a skull were 40 grainers out of a 22 LR. That was in a slaughter house, and it involved old boar/sow pigs and old hereford bulls, and the bullets didn't "riccochet" or "glance" off, but simply melted flat into the skull, before they reached the brain. A 410 with bird shot to the upper fore head was the answer to those rare occurances.

Anyone who told me a Bison or Grizzly shrugged off a high powered rifle bullet to the fore head, would lose all credibility instantly.........


I have been involved with over a hundred bison kills on a ranch. These animals are in a square mile enclosure, shots are usually taken at 80-100 yards.

On three occassions, on mature bulls that that were shot in the forehead, the bullet did ricochet of the skull, only leaving a skid mark before existing. The calibers used were 30-06, 7mm x 300, and a 300 mag. Now these animals were all knocked out, but none of them were killed by the head shot. The center of the skull on a mature bull is very thick, and if the bull has his head up, then the slope of the skull is around 30 degrees off level.

If you drop a bison from a shot to the forehead, I'll hang back while you figure out if he's dead or unconcious.

[RiverOtter]

By your logic, I could say my 210 TSX "glanced" off of my 08 Mule deer, as it just "grazed" the underside of his chest with my first poke......

I don't doubt that you could "graze" the forehead of a buffalo, givin' the right angle and shot placement, but there is no way that a buff skull is gonna "richochet" or "glance" a bullet off its noggin if it is even remotely squared to the impact.

[Walking Buffalo]

By your logic, I could say my 210 TSX "glanced" off of my 08 Mule deer, as it just "grazed" the underside of his chest with my first poke......

I don't doubt that you could "graze" the forehead of a buffalo, givin' the right angle and shot placement, but there is no way that a buff skull is gonna "richochet" or "glance" a bullet off its noggin if it is even remotely squared to the impact.

If this is in response to my post; say whatever you want, using your own logic, don't manipulate my words to suit yourself.

You may be missing the lesson I've offered. There is a definate possibility that Bison dropped from a frontal head shot may be unconcious, not dead.

I'll offer the same adivice to you as I gave to the shooters who insisted on taking head shots on the bulls I described earlier. Put a second shot in the neck from a safe distance.

[RiverOtter]

I have been involved with over a hundred bison kills on a ranch. These animals are in a square mile enclosure, shots are usually taken at 80-100 yards.

On three occassions, on mature bulls that that were shot in the forehead, the bullet did ricochet of the skull, only leaving a skid mark before existing. The calibers used were 30-06, 7mm x 300, and a 300 mag. Now these animals were all knocked out, but none of them were killed by the head shot. The center of the skull on a mature bull is very thick, and if the bull has his head up, then the slope of the skull is around 30 degrees off level.

If you drop a bison from a shot to the forehead, I'll hang back while you figure out if he's dead or unconcious.

Are the above posted not your words?????
You're describing a graze, nothing more, nothing less......


I'll offer the same adivice to you as I gave to the shooters who insisted on taking head shots on the bulls I described earlier

I've never once endorsed a head shot on anything, so maybe you shouldn't manipulate what I'm saying either....

To be clear, yes you could knock a buff out with a head shot, but only cause you missed the brain, not because the bullet bounced off the skull.

[BearSniper]

In 2006 we got our Spring Grizz with a 30-06, 180 grain. shot at 125 meters, just behind the shoulder in the "classic" recommended target spot. It ran 50 meters into the bush and died. The proof is, it's on the wall now.

[Walking Buffalo]

By your logic, I could say my 210 TSX "glanced" off of my 08 Mule deer, as it just "grazed" the underside of his chest with my first poke......

I don't doubt that you could "graze" the forehead of a buffalo, givin' the right angle and shot placement, but there is no way that a buff skull is gonna "richochet" or "glance" a bullet off its noggin if it is even remotely squared to the impact.


Hmmmm..... I never did mention Mule deer in my "logic".




Are the above posted not your words?????
You're describing a graze, nothing more, nothing less......



I've never once endorsed a head shot on anything, so maybe you shouldn't manipulate what I'm saying either....

To be clear, yes you could knock a buff out with a head shot, but only cause you missed the brain, not because the bullet bounced off the skull.

I never said you endorsed head shots. No manipulating here.


To clarify, I personally shot at one of the three bulls. It was a follow up to another shooters wounding. Yes, the brains were never penetrated in any of the three bulls, that's what I said. And yes I agree, the bullets did not bouce off the skull, that's why I used the word ricochet.


I do remiss that I did not take pictures of the skulls from the bulls I described earlier. That would save a lot of typing.....




Riverotter, my comments have been too inform people not to take frontal head shots on BISON as a first option. Few people today get to experience shooting these animals. It's good to share the knowledge.


Despite my intention to not ruffle your feathers any more, I'm sure you won't be able to resist reponding. :mrgreen:



Back to the OP...
Bison has a different anatomy so looking for input there.
Lets see what you guys think.


A repost from another site, same topic.


Bring a VERY sharp knife and a stone. No other animal will dull a blade like skinning an old buffalo.
Shot placement is a concern I express with buffalo. Their lungs and heart are much farther forward than in our other ungulates. Keep your shot tight to the shoulder and in the lower half of the chest. A shot "behind the shoulder" will likely hit the liver, or even the stomach. Good luck recovering a gut shot buffalo..... I have shot many buffalo, my preference is to hit them just above the elbow when their near leg is forward, hitting the heart without a large leg bone in the way. Rifle size is not a big concern to me with buffalo, shot placement is everything.
Here are some pics for reference. The skeleton pic gives you an understanding of how low the spine is, just above the center line of the body, thus my call to shoot low. Note how big the stomach is. A last tip is to gut the buffalo as quickly as you can. Their stomachs bloat very quickly, which makes gutting them more difficult as time goes by.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/bisonvitals1.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/BisonSkeletonVitals.jpg
Thanks go to Cas-has-cars from HuntingBC for this pic. :)
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/bisonstomach.jpg

[behemoth]

Great pics WB!! Id love to see the same for goats!

[srupp]

Great educational photo on Bison, THANKS!..KEW ABOUT THE HIGH NEUTRAL ARCH IN THE SPINE BUT..the photos of the vitals are great..


as to grizzlies..:wink:...again any bear shot in the vitals..ie chest from the side taking out both lungs is a dead bear, agreed...however sometimes it can go wrong...and my personal .02 is 220 yards is stretching the long side of grizzly harvesting...and in that situation the chest 'vitals is a better option...live dangerously..lol get closer..actually IF it can be done try and get to 150 yards..long side..

cheers
Steven

[Jelvis]

Walking Buffed is cool, nice post, that is talent right there . AWESOME . over used word
but yah hey good presentation, keep it up til yah get boring lol.
JP More Gun

[Gateholio]

Walking Buffalo, great stuff. :)