Lost bear:(

[theK.G.B]

I'm sadly posting this. I've lost the bear I shot just off the Seymour arm road. He is bleeding quite badly it seems waited 15 minutes. Followed the blood into the woods and it turned into spotty blood for a few hundred yards untill it was pretty much just a soft spec on the moss. I tried using the tracks but it's seems henhas been in and out of there alot. Can any one advise me on further tracking techniques. Or if in the area help find the bear. Thanks for any help:( wish I didn't need it

[coach]

Know anyone with a dog than can help you track the bear?

[dave_fras]

find the last spot of blood.. and start doin circles... get bigger and bigger

[SHAKER]

If I was closer I'd bring a hound or 2, but time to get a buddy or 2 and start do'n a sweep search. Make sure everyone's armed, I hate to ask but what did you pop him with?

[Jagermeister]

The tracking dog idea would be the best, no doubt about that.
My dad and I were hunting bear with this old guy, by old I mean first WWI veteran. Art was his name and he had a fraction for FN in him.
On this particular day, Art plugged this large black bear high up a ponderosa pine. The bear toppled out of the tree and out of our sight. There was a creek in a distance that was down hill and off to our right where we could see if the bear went that way. Art said that the bear would seek a water source if wounded, preferably with mud, to wallow in it to stop the blood flow. Never did find out if this were true or not as the bear was found dead at the base of the tree. 30-30 bullet through the heart and a broken back from the rock that broke his fall.
Now if it were me, I would probably start looking for that bear somewhere around the nearest water source, having exhausted all the other avenues.

[IronNoggin]

Damn. Wish I was a tad closer. My Wolf Hybrid male is DEADLY at finding bears (and deer). Hope you can locate someone with a good blood trailer hound!

Good Luck!
Nog

[PointMan]

I'm sadly posting this. I've lost the bear I shot just off the Seymour arm road. He is bleeding quite badly it seems waited 15 minutes. Followed the blood into the woods and it turned into spotty blood for a few hundred yards untill it was pretty much just a soft spec on the moss. I tried using the tracks but it's seems henhas been in and out of there alot. Can any one advise me on further tracking techniques. Or if in the area help find the bear. Thanks for any help:( wish I didn't need it
It's a long drive, but if you can't come up with someone closer let me know, maybe we could arrange something. Hate to drive 3 hours to hear you already have a small search party going.

[BiG Boar]

Where is the seymor arm road roughly. Someone must have a dog or know a guy close by!

[835]

Sometimes you get good blood because the blood has not coagulated. bear hair can soak up alot of blood hence the trail weakening. Did you mark the trail wit flagging tape? If not it is a good idea to mark every where you found blood or track. Some people use toilet paper as well. This can give you an idea of direction of travel as well as get you back to the sign to look again. Someone above said look for a water source, this is good. I shot a moose once that went for a strole, found her beside a swamp. This is not the only animal that i know has done something like this. You said you waited 15 min which is good but a bit more is better, It gives them a chance to bed down and bleed out. The dog thing is a good idea as well, i have never used it but people here have with success. The other guy above that said do circles is right as well. Go to your last point of blood and do circles till you find more,,, Look under the big leaves on the trail as well. Blood will get hung up on the underside as well.
And think easy walking, they can tend to go down hill as well.

Go back there tomorrow and have a look again, go with friends and go armed. I hope you find it as well. If you dont, try not to beat youself up too much. Go through what you did and learn from it. You may or may not have done something wrong that you wont do next time. It sucks but we all loose game, if you have never lost an animal you havent been hunting long, It happens to the best of us.

[Barracuda]

when did this happen?

[srupp]

dogs are good...however the circle technique works well..and flag the blood trail..loss of blood does make a animal thirsty.. and bears tend to go in under trees or hide out..watching their back trail 'crazy Ivan"

I use a infrared heat detector for warm trails.. and also have a green/red dual light blood light for blood trails that are taken up the next day.... but dogs work best

what color was the blood??bright red??watery semi transparent? dark?..

steven

[theK.G.B]

Ok I'm at the 12 km point. About 100 ft past the sign that say 12 km up on the right there is a tonne of blood on the road and surrounding area. I used trail tape to mark direction and blood. There is a creek down hill. . I have gone pretty far down. Again marking my way. And for the one who asked I shot home 2 times with a 150 gr. .308..... He took a big crap next to a small pool of blood that I just found. I have reception here so this is up to the minute. And if anybody would be interested in helping a fellow hunter my number is 778 867 4472. (Jon) I'm going to keep looking until sun downish

[theK.G.B]

the blood was a lighter red the first pools of blood were pretty dark tho
dogs are good...however the circle technique works well..and flag the blood trail..loss of blood does make a animal thirsty.. and bears tend to go in under trees or hide out..watching their back trail 'crazy Ivan"

I use a infrared heat detector for warm trails.. and also have a green/red dual light blood light for blood trails that are taken up the next day.... but dogs work best

what color was the blood??bright red??watery semi transparent? dark?..

steven

[SHAKER]

Ok I'm at the 12 km point. About 100 ft past the sign that say 12 km up on the right there is a tonne of blood on the road and surrounding area. I used trail tape to mark direction and blood. There is a creek down hill. . I have gone pretty far down. Again marking my way. And for the one who asked I shot home 2 times with a 150 gr. .308..... He took a big crap next to a small pool of blood that I just found. I have reception here so this is up to the minute. And if anybody would be interested in helping a fellow hunter my number is 778 867 4472. (Jon) I'm going to keep looking until sun downish


Best of luck guy... unfortunatly I can't help ya though. Keep it the search! I was just curious with your title saying "my 303" made me scratch my head for a minute.

[PointMan]

Can't help you tonight, but if you haven't found it by night fall I might be able to give youa hand in the morning, assuming I can clear my day.

[theK.G.B]

i have my enfield, but I just got a m14 practiced all week with it.
So when I saw him I went strait for my m14. Had 180 gr for enfield too:(
Best of luck guy... unfortunatly I can't help ya though. Keep it the search! I was just curious with your title saying "my 303" made me scratch my head for a minute.

[theK.G.B]

Thanks point man. I'm still out here untill dark but if I'm unsuccessfull I will post again. thanks
Can't help you tonight, but if you haven't found it by night fall I might be able to give youa hand in the morning, assuming I can clear my day.

[Slinky Pickle]

It would be too dark by the time I get there tonight but keep us posted and I'll see if I can break free from work tomorrow.

[Gateholio]

Bears can do the damndest things. If it's hit well, it's dead, but it migth be under a log or something, right beside you, and it's hard to see. Keep at it. Look for ravens in the air tomorrow.

[theK.G.B]

I hit him with my best shot once in the ribs just below the shoulder and a follow up in the shoulder to anchor him. He went a disoriented fell on his face a few time then managed to get up and bound off
Bears can do the damndest things. If it's hit well, it's dead, but it migth be under a log or something, right beside you, and it's hard to see. Keep at it. Look for ravens in the air tomorrow.

[NaStY]

Dont give up too quickly. You have lots of daylight time left to find him. Draw a line from the drops of blood and chances are it will lead straight to him. They dont usually stray to far from a straight line. Sounds like you made a good hit. I would be all over helping you but have to look after the kids right now. Let me know if you need some help tomorrow.......

[BlacktailStalker]

Stop pushing him and go back tomorrow.

[fester]

good luck!!!!

[guest]

Any body with a bird dog can help you, heck even Rover from next door likely can. If you hit him where you say, he's done. As others have said DO NOT GIVE up he's there just waiting for you tomorrow.

Keep us posted, worst thing a hunter can do is go after any game to early and push the animal ....... sad lesson learned.

I wish you luck in finding the critter.

CT

[srupp]

I tend to agree//if a bear hits the bush and its later in the day mark the spot the shot was taken from, and another mark where the bear entered the bush..and the first blood..then leave the bear to stiffen up and die...

Good luck

Steven

[theK.G.B]

Thanks ct. I had started walking the most natural path toward water and I stumbled by chance another blood smear showed up I marked it and I guess that will be my starting point. It's too dark now to see at all in the woods. Another HBC'er has offers to bring a dog but Havnt heard back yet. I have faith and patience for this bear. After all it gave it's life to me.
Any body with a bird dog can help you, heck even Rover from next door likely can. If you hit him where you say, he's done. As others have said DO NOT GIVE up he's there just waiting for you tomorrow.

Keep us posted, worst thing a hunter can do is go after any game to early and push the animal ....... sad lesson learned.

I wish you luck in finding the critter.

CT

[theK.G.B]

I've had to stop for the night as of 8:50 I got about another 25 yards from my last blood spot and found a smear on fallen log with no bark using the circle technique :) which I should mention this is my second bear ever. So I'm positive I've put this bear down. I can't stop replaying the shots in my head. But here's the whole story for those just tuning in or those looking for updates.

Today I had planned a bear hunt with my friend and first time hunters assistant. We took a few good recommendations from some fellow hbc'ers for Adams lake And Seymour arm. And set out. Were are at my buddies cabin in scotch creek so to get the flow of things moving we set out to garland rd. In celista for me to shoot a few targets. We saw momma and 2 cubs. So I was absolutely pumped to to see some boers. So I went on to Seymour arm got on the gravel road and tapered my speed to 40km got to 12 k come around the corner and my heart stopped.... There it was. Not only a great male bear. Cinnimon in colour with a blonde snout. My guess is close to high 5 to low 6 feet in height. And it was the largest black bear I have over seen. I came to a stop. Grabbed my m14 out of the back seat popped in the clip, kneeled into the ditch to take aim approximate 60 yards and one two three. Bammmm. Hit him in the chest just behind the shoulder! Then he got up? So a second shot. BANG. into the right shoulder he fell back over on wish back side. Rolled over twice And got up again! Started walking toward the left side of the road. Fell onto his nose and was pushing himself solely with his back legs. Some how. He managed to get onto his front legs and took three deer like bounds into the forest down hill on a angle towards the creek I assume. So at this point I have decided to wait 15 minutes before I venture into the woods with my friend.( A quick back story) my buddy has never hunted before and was really looking to try hunting. So put him on bear back up with another rifle. So before anyone asked why 2 people couldn't find it. As I am learning now I'm passing this knowledge onto him. ( (story over) So the 15 minute window was closed and we started getting the gear out for skinning and such. And start at the site where my first shot was taken. ( if I knew how to post pics from iPhone I would share the blood pics) and I found several dumps of blood. And the same where the second shot was taken . Started following the blood which was easily trackable at first. And as I kept the ball rolling the trail Was getting harder and harder to find so I went back to the original site and started trail marking my way about . So I spent about 4 and a bit hours looking for this bear. And using the circle technique i found another blood smear on a log with no bark about 25 yards from my last sign. Looks like he steped over it looked very labored like it had tried twice to get over it. but in the same direction. But I could hardly see much of anything. So I called it a night and for anyone who is able to help me look tomorrow please contact me or I'll pm those who said the would try to
Make it out:) thanks everyone for your promising advice and great attitudes because I was feeling so bad about it. But I will find it. Just have to keep going

[BlacktailStalker]

You can never wait too long on shot game when they don't drop in sight.
I think he'll be near by, dead, now that he isn't being pushed.
Best of luck.

[mike]

It'll be close to the blood you found at the end of the day, look for game trails from there and the path of least resistance. Shot animals want to get out of the area, try to figure out how you would bail and many times that's the same route they take.

[Ambush]

You'll find him dead tomorrow, close by where you left off. They can be really hard to see, even when your almost on top of them. Go slow, look hard. One guy on the track and one or two scanning for a body. And don't forget your nose, as you may smell him before you see him.

[theK.G.B]

Agreed. I found that the last track I saw was definitely the path of least resistance in the direction of a creek. Unfortunatly it was to
Dark to continue.
It'll be close to the blood you found at the end of the day, look for game trails from there and the path of least resistance. Shot animals want to get out of the area, try to figure out how you would bail and many times that's the same route they take.

[theK.G.B]

Sorry I should have said I noticed that the last blood trail I found was a for sure the path of least resistance fromthe last one
Agreed. I found that the last track I saw was definitely the path of least resistance in the direction of a creek. Unfortunatly it was to
Dark to continue.

[StoneChaser]

If you hit him twice in the chest, he's long dead and you'll find him in the AM....Good Luck!

[theK.G.B]

And like I said before if you willing to help look please don't hesitate to pm or call me. 1-778-867-4472. (Jon) I am in scotch creek on north shushwap lake. I will be looking for the bear again starting during the morning. That area has cell reception so feel free to call. I will keep posting with updates.
Thanks for all your posts and absolutely sound advice

[hunter1947]

I would head there this morning take lots of marking tape to mark where you saw blood take a few others if you can this will help spend the day looking for this bear ,good luck..

[BiG Boar]

Man, sounds like quite an adventure. Bears sure can move, even when they are dead! That is one thing I learned this past season. I would definitley find someone with a dog. Dogs are great at smelling out dead bloody animals.

[M.Dean]

Really hope you find it, but don't get to down on your self if you don't. It's a sad fact of hunting, not every animal is a bang flop affair. I've hunted for 40 years and yes, there's a few animals we spent the day looking for to no avail. I seen and filmed a Black Bear shot last year, the hunter used a 338 Mag with 250 Grn Solid's, the Bear was about 60 yards from us, the shot hit it just behind the shoulder, the Bear went down, then started to bawl and roll, jumped up and down then ran! The shot looked perfect, no way to get off a second shot, but that Bear ran like the wind! The guy's spent all of that day trying to track it, but no Bear! I went back all the rest of the season looking for birds etc, but nothing! The sad fact's are the Bear probably died some where, under some thick brush maybe, behind a stump, who knows? It happens to the best of us, so like I said, if you don't find the Bear,don't go jump off a bridge,just hope it will recover and live to be hunted again!

[835]

Ok,,, Its tomorrow now. Did you manage some help?
By the sounds of it, I too aggree you will find it today. 2 Shots with a .308 in the chest Should have done it

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Sounds like he won't be far......although this heavy rain certainly won't help.

SSS

[Jagermeister]

Sounds like he won't be far......although this heavy rain certainly won't help.

SSSThis southern part of the province is under a large low pressure area which is not going to move. Rainfall warning for the area that KGB is in. My advice is give it up. Too much time has passed, the meat is not going to be good for anything but the coyotes and the hair on the hide will be slipping by now. Chalk this one up to experience.

[Fishgutz]

If it where me I'd still try and find it outta respect for the animal.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

This southern part of the province is under a large low pressure area which is not going to move. Rainfall warning for the area that KGB is in. My advice is give it up. Too much time has passed, the meat is not going to be good for anything but the coyotes and the hair on the hide will be slipping by now. Chalk this one up to experience.

It's only 9 deg C in Salmon Arm right now. Overnight temps were pretty cool.
Despite the rain washing away the blood, I wouldn't give up quite yet.

SSS

[fester]

If it where me I'd still try and find it outta respect for the animal.

agreed!!! Updates??

[srupp]

still have some time for the hide.......

Steven

[Jagermeister]

It's only 9 deg C in Salmon Arm right now. Overnight temps were pretty cool.
Despite the rain washing away the blood, I wouldn't give up quite yet.

SSSI had the misconception that he shot it the day before yesterday, don't know where I got that from, didn't know that he was reporting in real time.
Nevertheless, if he has not found it by now, it's a lost cause.

[fester]

I am hoping he is busy dragging it out of the bush.

[theK.G.B]

Hey everyone. Soo it didn't turn out for me today I have the volunteer help of (point man) and (slinky pickle)
And both of them had tonnes of respectable knowledge and know how. Although between 4 of us and a combined total of 20 man hours. Nothing. We went to the last for sure sign and there was just nothing to go on from there. We must have looked through about 3 to 4 sq. Km.. Point man and slinky pickle took the creek. Me and doug did 10x10 blocks for signs of anything! Nothing. We quit around 1:20'or so. The rain and wind were rather heavy. I mean this whole bit is really disappointing especially because I set out looking for a phase bear. I still have another tag and a while lot of hunting left in me. Who knows what's around the next corner. I'll go back tomorrow for a bit, but just to look for ravens. See if I can atleast salvage a cape
Thanks for all you immediate posts! And HUGE THANKS TO (POINT MAN) and (SLINKY PICKLE) They are solid guys for sure.
Again thanks for reading and happy hunting
TheK.G.B

[Whonnock Boy]

Solid effort!! Good on ya. It happens. It is nice to know that fellow HBCer's will help out if asked. Cheers to all of you!

[theK.G.B]

No kidding I was blown away when point man drove 3 hours at 5am to help me and slinky pickle took off from work at about 9:30. And drove 1 1/2 hours one way to reach us. HBC is every hunters best pal. I can't wait for the day I'm flicking through the site and can help a fellow hunter
Solid effort!! Good on ya. It happens. It is nice to know that fellow HBCer's will help out if asked. Cheers to all of you!

[Jagermeister]

KGB, you made a noble effort, without a doubt.
And I have to say, I don't think that there are finer HBCer's than PointMan and SlinkyPickle. You two are Yoemen of extraordinary character. Great job guys.

[NaStY]

Real sorry to hear you werent able to find him yet. I could tell from the tone in your voice, you were pretty upset about it.

Sure wish i lived closer. Would have come out as well.........

[srupp]

Kudos to Slinky Pickle and Pointman..stand up character..well done Gentlemen..

Sometimes this happens...its the nature of the sport....every time is different..and we learn from our challenging times...the valleys not the MTN tops..

When you look back..there will be things you learned..and will do differently..

You learned there are some stand up folks here willing to help..even if it costs them... a lot of helpful men and women here...

you learned that nothing is a gimee..nothing is 100% assured...

You demonstrated character, a wonderful effort..and a profound respect for the animal you hunted..tenacious even in death...

Thank you for sharing in this hunt regardless of the outcome... from this we all learn...


cheers

Steven

[ElectricDyck]

Good effort on the search, I think it happens to more people than they'll admit and I'd bet a lot blow it off as a miss without much looking. Bears can be hard to kill and can even harder to find when they die. I posted this pic in another thread but we almost walked by this one, if it weren't for the blood in the trickle of the creek we would have walked right passed it.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/ElectricDyck/Sunshine%20Coast%202009%20Spring%20Bear/IMG_0857.jpg

[todbartell]

Kudos to Slinky Pickle and Pointman..stand up character..well done Gentlemen..

Sometimes this happens...its the nature of the sport....every time is different..and we learn from our challenging times...the valleys not the MTN tops..

When you look back..there will be things you learned..and will do differently..


I agree with that ^

[PointMan]

Thanks guys for the compliments, but not needed, I'm sure any of you would have done the same if able. Tough break getting rained on last night, didn't help with the blood trail at all. Hopefully KGB will be able to salvage a cape out of it. Tough country to track in, lots of deadfalls, steep slopes, thick brush, odds were not great at all.

[SHAKER]

Sorry to hear. Unfortunatly these things do happen, I've never had it happen to me personally but I've been around this before. We lost a 2 point mule deer last year which made no sence. My friend was using my .300 mag which he was very good with and poked a fork horn buck at less then 50 yards with a 165 nosler.... long story short I found that buck 3 days later after the birds had their fill. The only other one was a 4 point mule deer that I watched another friend shoot at 146 yards with his .300 mag using 180 gr accubonds. It was a nice 1\4ing twards us shot and I had the spotting scope on the deer to see the impact... Bang, flop, twitch, horns go down... high fives. That buck was out of sight for under 1 minute in a very small cut block and 3 of us never found a drop of anything... We searched till dark and till their was no snow left that wasn't covered in our boot prints! UFO abduction was our sensus, so keep your chin up and then next one will be better!

[theK.G.B]

Good effort on the search, I think it happens to more people than they'll admit and I'd bet a lot blow it off as a miss without much looking. Bears can be hard to kill and can even harder to find when they die. I posted this pic in another thread but we almost walked by this one, if it weren't for the blood in the trickle of the creek we would have walked right passed it.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/ElectricDyck/Sunshine%20Coast%202009%20Spring%20Bear/IMG_0857.jpgwas the bear in that pile of deadfall? A lot of other members say that yogi will find a log or slash pile to dive under? And I really like that picture. It's a one if a kind for sure. Thanks electricdyck

[hunter1947]

The good thing from your ordeal is that you gave it lots of effort to find this wounded bear you tried your best to find the bear and came up on the short end of the stick.
Don't let it get you down I myself have lost a few animals in the past its no fun thinking about what you have lost but this kind of thing happens to most of us hunters in a life time of hunting.

When you hear from other members that I saw this nice buck or other they put there cross hairs on the and squeeze the trigger and see that they missed this animal cleanly ,well to me this could have been a wound if the shot was over one way or the other way a few inches and if the shot did hit the animal 99% of the time on this misplaced shot the animal would have run away and maybe never to be found again ????.

shit like this happens and when it does all we can do as a hunter is to do our best in trying to retrieve this animal and this is what you did you tried your best to find the animal.

The one thing I learned over my years hunting for me I try to put the bullet where it counts and if I am not comfortable with my shot and not sure then I won't shoot till I feel good about my shot ,have a happy hunting season ,H-47 :)..

[theK.G.B]

The good thing from your ordeal is that you gave it lots of effort to find this wounded bear you tried your best to find the bear and came up on the short end of the stick.
Don't let it get you down I myself have lost a few animals in the past its no fun thinking about what you have lost but this kind of thing happens to most of us hunters in a life time of hunting.

When you hear from other members that I saw this nice buck or other they put there cross hairs on the and squeeze the trigger and see that they missed this animal cleanly ,well to me this could have been a wound if the shot was over one way or the other way a few inches and if the shot did hit the animal 99% of the time on this misplaced shot the animal would have run away and maybe never to be found again ????.

shit like this happens and when it does all we can do as a hunter is to do our best in trying to retrieve this animal and this is what you did you tried your best to find the animal.

The one thing I learned over my years hunting for me I try to put the bullet where it counts and if I am not comfortable with my shot and not sure then I won't shoot till I feel good about my shot ,have a happy hunting season ,H-47 :)..thanks h-47. I am still pleased with the shots I took. Although it being my second bear. I am confident that I understand the anatomy of a bear. But is there a preferred place to shoot a black bear? I've seen posts on shoulders then vitals. The vitals over shoulder. Other than believing in accuracy is a spine or neck shot appropriate shot on a bear. Other than the obvious damage to the Hyde?

[srupp]

where were you aiming?? with this latest post you seem to be considering spine and neck shots YIKES!! the time to think about shots is before you take one...neck shots and spine shots are a NO-NO
preferred shot..front leg/shoulder...

damage to the hide??easy to fix a bullet hole......

cheers
Steven

[hunter1947]

When an animal gets away from you and you can't find the animal most times it is not a well placed shot then on the other hand it sounds like your shot was a well placed shot and the animal run off not to be found and it is dead somewhere .

I thought I lost a nice record buck blacktail deer back 35 years ago to make a long story short there where two deer in the same spot the one I hit was a kill the deer feel into 6 feet of undergrowth I thought it got back up and run away but was not the same deer it was another deer that was laying down beside the one I had shot ,I looked and looked for hours for the deer that run away little did I know that the first buck I had shot was in thick under bush 6 feet from where I had dropped him all I could see was a bit of the one tang sticking out of the under bush it looked like a stick.

In your case I would bet money that this bear you shot is down and dead somewhere and I assume its hard to find because of thick under cover you might have walked by the animal a few times when looking for your bear sometimes they will dig a hole to partly cover them selfs up from the pain they are suffering .

[theK.G.B]

When an animal gets away from you and you can't find the animal most times it is not a well placed shot then on the other hand it sounds like your shot was a well placed shot and the animal run off not to be found and it is dead somewhere .

I thought I lost a nice record buck blacktail deer back 35 years ago to make a long story short there where two deer in the same spot the one I hit was a kill the deer feel into 6 feet of undergrowth I thought it got back up and run away but was not the same deer it was another deer that was laying down beside the one I had shot ,I looked and looked for hours for the deer that run away little did I know that the first buck I had shot was in thick under bush 6 feet from where I had dropped him all I could see was a bit of the one tang sticking out of the under bush it looked like a stick.

In your case I would bet money that this bear you shot is down and dead somewhere and I assume its hard to find because of thick under cover you might have walked by the animal a few times when looking for your bear sometimes they will dig a hole to partly cover them selfs up from the pain they are suffering . possible, though the rain may have been supressing smell aswell. No ravens either so he is well hidden. It supposed to clear up for A hour or two so I'll check it out again today to see if I can salvage a cape . That's the best I can do for now.

[theK.G.B]

where were you aiming?? with this latest post you seem to be considering spine and neck shots YIKES!! the time to think about shots is before you take one...neck shots and spine shots are a NO-NO
preferred shot..front leg/shoulder...

damage to the hide??easy to fix a bullet hole......

cheers
Steven my first shot was behind the armpit. He rolled around and wasn't in good shape. Got up broad side again one into the shoulder. Now I should say when I made that post it was more of a general inquiry into a best shot scenario. My point to even mention neck or spine was to immediatly immobilize the animal. But rest assured I wont be attempting any shot like that. I've never had game run off on me. So I'm just curious, and always learning more. Thanks Steve!!! But on that note why are neck/spine no no's? a few people I have chumed with said for Moose, elk and deer To shoot in the spine. A stupid idea? Sounds like a large margin of error could happen.

[theK.G.B]

And vitals shots have worked on the three deer and one bear I shot over the last two years. So I won't be switching up my shooting style.

[SHAKER]

I've watched many a Bear take off after a shot in the boiler..... to crump up 30-40 yards away. Unless you break them down with shoulders or for some reason a spine shot, they're probably going to run a little ways regardless. Good call on not doing the neck thing, under ideal conditions it works great but 1" one way or the other could spell a disaster. Don't worry about pelt damage, you'd be amazed what you can fix! but please dont' shoot anything in the face and ask a taxidermist to fix it, that takes a mirical to fix.

[ElectricDyck]

was the bear in that pile of deadfall? A lot of other members say that yogi will find a log or slash pile to dive under? And I really like that picture. It's a one if a kind for sure. Thanks electricdyck

The black you see under the dead fall branch is the bear, lung shot pass through, ran 100 yards with no blood dropped. The bear did not look hit, just ran instantly at the shot across the road down the small gulley and crawled under the dead fall in the trickle of a creek and died silently.

[35 Whelen]

As for using a dog for tracking...you don't need a trained dog to do this ( best case scenario would be a tracking dog) but any dog will just about do. Give him the scent at the last known blood and his nose will hit the ground. Amazing what dogs will do once they get a scent. Even the neighbours beagle will do the trick...what have you got to lose.

[835]

Well i was rooting for you. Too bad you came up empty. But you did everything you should and could have. Like i said, It happens to the best of us, you just cant go making it a habbit!

And ya, High percentage shot. In the boiler room. once you blast one through there you may or may not follow up with a neck spine if you wish. This is for every animal. Wait for a good broadside shot and put er' in the boiler.

[Razor84]

my first shot was behind the armpit. He rolled around and wasn't in good shape. Got up broad side again one into the shoulder. Now I should say when I made that post it was more of a general inquiry into a best shot scenario. My point to even mention neck or spine was to immediatly immobilize the animal. But rest assured I wont be attempting any shot like that. I've never had game run off on me. So I'm just curious, and always learning more. Thanks Steve!!! But on that note why are neck/spine no no's? a few people I have chumed with said for Moose, elk and deer To shoot in the spine. A stupid idea? Sounds like a large margin of error could happen.


you mentioned using a 308 Winchester loaded with 150 grainers. But you didn't mention what type of bullet?

[PointMan]

I agree with Slinky Pickles idea yesterday, I think you should start at the last place you physically SAW the bear and start searcing again from there. I can't shake the feeling that we passed over the bear somewhere closer to the road, between the first sighting and the last spot of blood, nothing indicated he went beyond that point.

[BlacktailStalker]

Bad luck, we all have it.
You still have two bear tags left, not one.
You cant punch a tag if you haven't recovered the animal.

[Barracuda]

all you can do is learn from it and "keep on keepin on" .you still have two tags

[theK.G.B]

Bad luck, we all have it.
You still have two bear tags left, not one.
You cant punch a tag if you haven't recovered the animal.
POINT, SET, MATCH! good call:)

[PointMan]

Bad luck, we all have it.
You still have two bear tags left, not one.
You cant punch a tag if you haven't recovered the animal.

Pretty sure you're wrong about that, if you know the animal is dead (and it is, nothing lives after 2 .308 rounds in the boiler at 60 yards) you're required to cut your tag. You can argue that if the animal isn't found that you can't be sure it's dead, but we've all put enough rounds into animals to know the odds of that blackie pulling through, it's not a grizz, we read the scenario of the hit and I saw the blood, it's dead and the tag should be cut.

[Tenacious Billy]

Pretty sure you're wrong about that, if you know the animal is dead (and it is, nothing lives after 2 .308 rounds in the boiler at 60 yards) you're required to cut your tag. You can argue that if the animal isn't found that you can't be sure it's dead, but we've all put enough rounds into animals to know the odds of that blackie pulling through, it's not a grizz, we read the scenario of the hit and I saw the blood, it's dead and the tag should be cut.

If you haven't found the animal you don't know it's dead....ergo - don't cut your tag. Quite simple really.

[KB90]

Pretty sure you're wrong about that, if you know the animal is dead (and it is, nothing lives after 2 .308 rounds in the boiler at 60 yards) you're required to cut your tag.

Sorry but your wrong, how can you cut a tag for something you're not in possession of? What happens when a CO asks to see your bear you've killed that you punched your tag for?

If you feel strongly about not killing 2 more bears, simple just kill 1 and pretend it was two.

[steepNdeep]

KGB - It sounds like you guys put in a good effort trying to recover the animal. Sound like great guys coming to help you out. They are tough & can go a long ways without leaving much sign. Regardless of the tag - it's personal ethics if you choose to count that bear as dead or not & continue hunting.

> Dogs on a fresh scent can make the difference in a recovery or not. Maybe talk to guys in the area ahead of time & find out if one is available if needed. My bear dog is out chasing bears in the yard right now...& she tracks after a night of hard rain. If I was closer... Here's one she put up off my property:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3357/4577617638_626fcc5bc8_z.jpg

> A vitals shot gives the largest margin of error & is the surest kill shot - to be safe, try to center punch the vitals on a broadside.

The coat on a black bear can be very puffy and make it difficult to know exactly where to aim. The vitals on a black bear sit a little higher than the vitals on a whitetail. If you are used to shooting deer be sure and pay close attention to the diagram above. If you aim in the middle of the chest cavity on a bear you should be right in the middle of the vitals. If you have never hunted bear before it would be wise to invest in a 3D bear target to get in some practice on actually shooting at a bear. Know your targets kill zone and you will have a successful hunt!

http://www.bowhuntingnorthamerica.com/images/Shot%20Placement/Bear%20Color%20487.jpg

[PointMan]

I'm not trying to flame anyone, and I suppose it is a matter of personal ethics, but oneof the purposes of this site is to help educate new hunters. I sometimes get a little concerned about the potential message being sent when we tell someone they don't need to cut a tag after putting two bullets into an animal. KGB did what I would expect any ethical hunter to do in such a situation, he put a LOT of effort into trying to recover the animal, and if he doesn't cut his tag I certianly will not think less of him, but not everyone carrying a rifle and a set of tags shares the same fortitude.

[open-sights]

This is something that has been covered, Do not cut your tag if you do not recover your animal. It is not an ethics issue, it is a legal issue. Especially with a bear since you are required to bring all meat out of the bush with you. KGB - great thread, sorry about your luck this time and thanks for the thrilling thread from start to finish, better luck to ya next time.



I'm not trying to flame anyone, and I suppose it is a matter of personal ethics, but oneof the purposes of this site is to help educate new hunters. I sometimes get a little concerned about the potential message being sent when we tell someone they don't need to cut a tag after putting two bullets into an animal. KGB did what I would expect any ethical hunter to do in such a situation, he put a LOT of effort into trying to recover the animal, and if he doesn't cut his tag I certianly will not think less of him, but not everyone carrying a rifle and a set of tags shares the same fortitude.

[todbartell]

stop hunting, do not cut the tag

[Krico]

Do not cut your tag if you do not recover your animal. It is not an ethics issue, it is a legal issue.

Exactly. IF you feel the need to, go ahead and count it as a dead bear in your mind, and shoot only 1 more this year. Do not punch your tag though.

[todbartell]

maybe buy another bear tag too, help out the gvt ;)

[Nathaniel Poe]

if you know the animal is dead (and it is, nothing lives after 2 .308 rounds in the boiler at 60 yards)

maybe he was using Hornady bullets?

[Tripitaka]

KGB,
Many thanks for your post and bad luck on not finding the animal (yet). This thread has again taught me a lot and that info may well help me deal with a situation like this in the future.

As for the tags, I fit into the "new hunter" category. What I take from this is that if I cut the tag without recovering the animal, I'm at risk legally. Morally, I should consider it cut. In practice, I guess that with that info, I wouldn't cut the tag for this bear but would still consider only one tag remaining. Is that reasonable?

[todbartell]

with that info, I wouldn't cut the tag for this bear but would still consider only one tag remaining. Is that reasonable?

cutting the tag is done once you're in possession of the animal. A few species in BC are under compulsory inspection, how would you explain to the CO that you don't have your grizzly bear or sheep, because you gut shot it and only found a drop of blood, yet you cut your tag?

[BiG Boar]

Never cut your tag on a not found animal. Lets say you did that when you saw the blood trail. You cut it on say the 24th. You don't find it till the 25th or 26th. How do you explain that to the CO when you're dragging it out of the bush?

[PointMan]

Never cut your tag on a not found animal. Lets say you did that when you saw the blood trail. You cut it on say the 24th. You don't find it till the 25th or 26th. How do you explain that to the CO when you're dragging it out of the bush?
Good point, never considered that scenario.

[835]

Never cut your tag on a not found animal. Lets say you did that when you saw the blood trail. You cut it on say the 24th. You don't find it till the 25th or 26th. How do you explain that to the CO when you're dragging it out of the bush?


And in a thread a while back someone had talked to Conservation and that was his reasoning for not cutting the tag. You only cut the tag when you have the animal. It is not an ethics thing at all.

[theK.G.B]

Pretty sure you're wrong about that, if you know the animal is dead (and it is, nothing lives after 2 .308 rounds in the boiler at 60 yards) you're required to cut your tag. You can argue that if the animal isn't found that you can't be sure it's dead, but we've all put enough rounds into animals to know the odds of that blackie pulling through, it's not a grizz, we read the scenario of the hit and I saw the blood, it's dead and the tag should be cut.

Yes I agree pointman! I cancelled my tag immediately after shooting him anyway. That's how I was told to do it by the folks that i took the (core) course.

[theK.G.B]

Never cut your tag on a not found animal. Lets say you did that when you saw the blood trail. You cut it on say the 24th. You don't find it till the 25th or 26th. How do you explain that to the CO when you're dragging it out of the bush?oh wow I never thought that senario out either. Tho I did cancel my tag already and there's no puttin em' back.

[35 Whelen]

Regulation states that " upon recovery a species tag must be immediately cancelled " not if you think it is dead. How do you know you hit it in the boiler, you don't you just saw blood. You won't know where you hit it until you field dress it. Maybe you hit him low in the chest and all you did was blow out his sternum?

[theK.G.B]

For anyone curious on the bullet I used a standard federal blue box .308 soft point. I have hornday rounds but I've never practiced shooting with them so I grabbed what I know flys strait and true in my gun.

[Ambush]

I get a kick out of these diagrams. The lungs in that pic are about the size of a small porcupine. You have a MUCH larger target then what they are showing you. When you open the chest cavity, the lungs are completely collapsed and may be that size, but not while he's breathing.

If you hit the bear where you said, and twice at that, then he's dead and you have probably just over looked him. He may have rolled if the country is steep. A dead bear's body turns into a huge water balloon and can just sort of ooze into some very hard to see into spots, especialy on steep terrain.

Start looking from last blood and take note of steep slopes, chutes and creases. Look for overturned debris and flattened vegetation. Look UNDER stuff.



http://www.bowhuntingnorthamerica.com/images/Shot%20Placement/Bear%20Color%20487.jpg[/QUOTE]

[theK.G.B]

Regulation states that " upon recovery a species tag must be immediately cancelled " not if you think it is dead. How do you know you hit it in the boiler, you don't you just saw blood. You won't know where you hit it until you field dress it. Maybe you hit him low in the chest and all you did was blow out his sternum? I'm no rocket surgeon and no insult at all;) but anything with a blown out sternum is walking dead. That's what keeps the heart and lungs in place. And if my first shot was low. My shoulder shot did it. I can't really continue to speculate on this much more. I've learned alot about hunting in the last 3 days. Ethics, legalities and style. What did I really take from this? Nothing good came easy! Patience is key. Don't push, you can never wait to long. Practice practice practice! If your not 100% confident in your shot, don't take it. The best lesson I've learned on this trip really lies in this forum. No matter what I'm never alone, with all of you who posted or just read. I never once felt overwhelmed or like a piece of shit. And I think all of these combined is why I am going to buy another tag and damn strait Im going again! It was a bad experience, but I survived physically and mentally and this will not be my last post! Can't say thank you enough:)!!!!!!!!

[todbartell]

the blue box federal is not a very tough bullet. Bears have bones like concrete, it's quite likely if you hit the shoulder there wasn't much if anything left of the bullet to penetrate through into the heart or lungs. I would suggest a bullet constructed a bit better, something designed to retain a large % of it's weight through penetration. It can turn a marginal shot into a quick kill

[35 Whelen]

Just saying....that without recovering the animal you REALLY don't have a positive idea of where you hit it. I hit a moose once at 30 yds looking over his shoulder at me I swore I hit him just behind the shoulder, and it blew out his sternum. WRONG !!!!! I didn't find out I hit him in the right ham as he was turning to run until we were butchering him....I would have sworn I hit him where I thought I aimed, and would have bet the farm on it. The bullet ranged completely through the moose end to end and tipped him over. So what I am saying is without recovering the bear you really don't know what you hit and how the bullet performed. You did the right thing and followed up , but you didn't need to cancel your tag. Shit happens and we occasionally lose an animal. Chalk it up to experience and move on. Bears can go a long long way with a lung or lungs out, they have an adrenal gland the size of a quart jar, and they can cover a lot of ground in 10 seconds.....likely about three times as far as you could go at a full run in less time. I know there are lots of ideas on where to shoot a bear, and I have shot lots. On the black bears I have shot, I always bust their shoulders first. Anchor them , then the coupe de gras in the lungs if necessary. But with the right heavy bullet ( for me a 250 grain .358 ) is usually enough to break down both shoulders and send loads of secondary projectiles into the vitals. Glad you had dusted off and getting back at it.

[theK.G.B]

the blue box federal is not a very tough bullet. Bears have bones like concrete, it's quite likely if you hit the shoulder there wasn't much if anything left of the bullet to penetrate through into the heart or lungs. I would suggest a bullet constructed a bit better, something designed to retain a large % of it's weight through penetration. It can turn a marginal shot into a quick kill do you shoot 308 or 303? Any ammo to recommend? I'm not a hand loader so it's gotta by the box or buy a custom load off someone I suppose. I would use 180, but it pounds the crap out of the gas system and bolt on a m14. My enfield on the other hand I've got ahold of 220 gr. .303 but I only have 35 rounds of it. So I have to practice with it then get a custom load

[theK.G.B]

Just saying....that without recovering the animal you REALLY don't have a positive idea of where you hit it. I hit a moose once at 30 yds looking over his shoulder at me I swore I hit him just behind the shoulder, and it blew out his sternum. WRONG !!!!! I didn't find out I hit him in the right ham as he was turning to run until we were butchering him....I would have sworn I hit him where I thought I aimed, and would have bet the farm on it. The bullet ranged completely through the moose end to end and tipped him over. So what I am saying is without recovering the bear you really don't know what you hit and how the bullet performed. You did the right thing and followed up , but you didn't need to cancel your tag. Shit happens and we occasionally lose an animal. Chalk it up to experience and move on. Bears can go a long long way with a lung or lungs out, they have an adrenal gland the size of a quart jar, and they can cover a lot of ground in 10 seconds.....likely about three times as far as you could go at a full run in less time. I know there are lots of ideas on where to shoot a bear, and I have shot lots. On the black bears I have shot, I always bust their shoulders first. Anchor them , then the coupe de gras in the lungs if necessary. But with the right heavy bullet ( for me a 250 grain .358 ) is usually enough to break down both shoulders and send loads of secondary projectiles into the vitals. Glad you had dusted off and getting back at it. wow big caliber!!!! On my next bear I will be the shoulders, then vitals. And maybe the m14 should chill out untill deeae season. I feel very comfortable about .303. That was the first animal I have shot with 308. And perhaps with a max of 165 grain. Maybe it's a better suited deer gun for me. Or I suck;) but I believe in my shots wen I take them. And I just learned from experience nothing is one hundred percent. And you completely correct without a body my shot is really just a mental picture with abunch of confidence behind it. I'm sure I nailed him. But I'll never know........ And I'm ok with it! Great post 35 whelen your only making me a better, more thoughtful hunter

[35 Whelen]

.308 is plenty for black bear.....I would just go up a bit in bullet construction. See if you can find a Nosler partition load in the 165 and you will be fine. I shoot a 35 Whelen, which is a necked up 30/06 from 30 cal to 358. Moderate velocity with a big bullet, and you can eat right to the bullet hole. The ole Brits had the right theory on bullets. Big hole, heavy bullet.

[todbartell]

Federal premium 150gr Barnes TSX should work just great. Retains 100% of its weight throughout penetration/expansion

In 303, I've seen what a 180gr Remington CorLokt does to a big black bear and I liked what I saw. The bullets we found on the far side of the bear were holding together nicely and expanding well. We still had to shoot it about 6 times though, bears can be tough!

[theK.G.B]

Ok. That gives me quite a bit to work with. I'm
Coming back to scotch creek in a week for another 7 days to finish the spring bear season. I will have my firearm and bullet selection chosen by then. Perhaps buying budget ammo is just a fun round to pound off. Now I think I get premium ammo. At 50 bucks a box. I guess I would really only be taking a few shots anyway so what does it matter! The right tool for the right job!!!!!

[steepNdeep]

Bears can be tough & I'd recommend shooting until they stop movin'. I see a dozen or so a year, but I haven't shot one for years... I think shoulder shots are for experienced hunters that have skinned bears & understand the anatomy & are Eastwood calm on the trigger. If you miss the bone & only get 1 lung or guts...

For rookies, the no-brainer shot is to double punch the lungs broadside. No bones to get in the way & they will be dead in 1 shot - even with an arrow. You do have to be ready to track though, 'cause they can run a ways holdin' their breath...

As I'm sure you know, it may take a box or 2 of $50 ammo to get it shootin' right in your gun.

[1/2 slam]

Yes I agree pointman! I cancelled my tag immediately after shooting him anyway. That's how I was told to do it by the folks that i took the (core) course.

They were wrong.

[fearnodeer]

You have done all the right things so take what you want from all the replies, hold your head up and move on.

[Fisher-Dude]

I've seen what a 180gr Remington CorLokt does to a big black bear and I liked what I saw.

Wow, with a bit of selective quoting, I could ruin your intraweb rep! :mrgreen:

KGB might want to consider 165 gr Remington Sciroccos or 180 gr Remington Ultra Bondeds for his 308 in factory ammo. A bit more money for premium ammo, but both of those will anchor a bear quickly and hold together well. The Scirocco will go through bear bones especially well.

[todbartell]

Wow, with a bit of selective quoting, I could ruin your intraweb rep! :mrgreen:

don't need a TSX at 303 factory speeds :D those 180's were probably clockin' around 2300 f/s @ the muzzle. Doesn't stress the bullet as much as 2800+ fps :D I'm not stupids

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm not stupids

Let's just leave it at that. ;)

[Bchunter3006]

.308 is plenty for black bear.....I would just go up a bit in bullet construction. See if you can find a Nosler partition load in the 165 and you will be fine. I shoot a 35 Whelen, which is a necked up 30/06 from 30 cal to 358. Moderate velocity with a big bullet, and you can eat right to the bullet hole. The ole Brits had the right theory on bullets. Big hole, heavy bullet.

Some people say a 200 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is too heavy of a bullet for a .30-06... I say it took out 2 grizz, one being 8'3" squared(23 12/16, 20+yrs old), and it broke that big boy's shoulders and spine at 150+ yards no prob, reatained its weight wonderfully. I prefer heavy bullets. Don't shoot a long ways, no need to, so velocities don't matter too much in that respect. Heavy bullet with adequate velocity and good construction = hard hitting and knock-down power.

[emerson]

I used the cheap Winchester Super X (probably close to Federal blue box) 150s on the bear I shot on Thursday. The bang-flop second shot broke the upper front leg bones on both sides and left a 1" chest entry and 1 1/2" exit on the other side. Granted that shot was no more than 30 yds.

[theK.G.B]

I used the cheap Winchester Super X (probably close to Federal blue box) 150s on the bear I shot on Thursday. The bang-flop second shot broke the upper front leg bones on both sides and left a 1" chest entry and 1 1/2" exit on the other side. Granted that shot was no more than 30 yds.funny you mention that! I found the super x in my 303 way out performed the blue box. A friend of mine in Vancouver has access to a ballistic kinda gel. It was pretty neat to see the difference in ammo. I try to round up a few pics. Or try to make a video.

[theK.G.B]

I used the cheap Winchester Super X (probably close to Federal blue box) 150s on the bear I shot on Thursday. The bang-flop second shot broke the upper front leg bones on both sides and left a 1" chest entry and 1 1/2" exit on the other side. Granted that shot was no more than 30 yds. and of course! Congratulations on the bear emerson:)

[Ltbullken]

I've used a .308 with 165 Sierra BT and they worked well everytime. I've seen a guy hit the on side upper leg bone shoulder area and the animal ran a fair distance. We tracked it but the animal was still alive and when it got up, he hit it again for good this time.

That leg/shoulder area on a bear is a tough target and it can destroy a conventional jacketed bullet. I put a 165 grain TSX sternum to pelvis on a black bear. And he still got up!! Another through the boiler works put him down but not after he crawled into a hollow... go figure. They can be tough animals to anchor. I shot another bear with a 125 Nosler Partn out of 260 Rem. It dropped, ran into a 20 M wide strip of bush and never came out the other side. I waited a while then tracked it into the bush. The light was fading. It took me awhile to find it. It rolled under a log and only after I started looking under brush and logs, etc., did I find it. It can be easy to walk right past it.

But good on you guys who went looking for the bear. I'm certain as many here that it is in a covered hollow or hole somewhere close by. Out of respect, we need to make that effort to try to find it at least.

[Ltbullken]

Bears can be tough & I'd recommend shooting until they stop movin'. I see a dozen or so a year, but I haven't shot one for years... I think shoulder shots are for experienced hunters that have skinned bears & understand the anatomy & are Eastwood calm on the trigger. If you miss the bone & only get 1 lung or guts...

For rookies, the no-brainer shot is to double punch the lungs broadside. No bones to get in the way & they will be dead in 1 shot - even with an arrow. You do have to be ready to track though, 'cause they can run a ways holdin' their breath...

As I'm sure you know, it may take a box or 2 of $50 ammo to get it shootin' right in your gun.

It's absolutely worth it. You spend so much on everything else to go on a hunt. A premium bullet will give that extra insurance that you don't waste your time and effort and money on the hunt when you take the shot. No guarantees but it is way better odds. I'd go with a 150 grain TSX or 165 grain Nosler Partition or TSX for your 308. I don't think you can get anything more than corelokt or similar for a 303.

[theK.G.B]

It's absolutely worth it. You spend so much on everything else to go on a hunt. A premium bullet will give that extra insurance that you don't waste your time and effort and money on the hunt when you take the shot. No guarantees but it is way better odds. I'd go with a 150 grain TSX or 165 grain Nosler Partition or TSX for your 308. I don't think you can get anything more than corelokt or similar for a 303.
When I consider the 45 minutes each way to where I lost the bear from the cabin. That gas Probley added upmore than 50$ box. So that makes sence