home made composite

[new hunter]

A friend at work and I are talking about building a couple of laminate flat bows in our hotel maintenance shop.
I was wandering if anyone has suggestions on what kind of wood we should use for veneers and in what order .
I have heard that I should use a material that will avoid stretching on the outside and something that will avoid compression on the inside .
We want to make bows in the 50# to 60# range ,and we would like to get our materials from our local windsor plywood .We will have limited equipment , some electric and hand tools but no steam or heat box .
Any information or suggestion on woods , order of laminates , adhesives ,waterproofing ,even suggested wood thicknesses would all be apreciated.
I have built several self bows and lots of arrows , but this will be my first composite bow of any sort so any help would be great.

[finehuck]

I would have a few tips if you wanted organic composite. I dont know anything about synthetic ones.

[new hunter]

organic sounds fine , my only problem would be finding materials . I read your post looking for sinew and I imagine I would find sourcing horn ,sinew or hide glue pretty difficult . I was looking for rawhide last year and that was pretty well impossible .
Any suggestions on wood would be great , I was thinking bamboo for the face , hemlock for the core and maple for the back ,all held together with titebond and covered in fiberglass

[M@B]

Don't use hemlock. Maple is plenty strong enough to withstand the force that a bamboo back will put on it. Windsor plywood can get you almost any kind of hardwood you could want.
Ipe, or hickory backed with Bamboo make great bows.
Cherry, walnut, White oak.....there are so many great hardwoods that are great in compression that once backed make great shooters. You can back a bow with damn near anything, Silk, linen, raw hide, sinew, snake skin, fish skin, hickory, bamboo, hell you can use denim or draywall tape!
Good luck and welcome to the addiction.

Regards, M@B

[scallywag]

youtube bow making i looked at a video of a guy making a recurve a while ago pretty cool

[new hunter]

How thick should I make my limbs for a short hunting bow in the 50# range ?

[Jerry Potts]

I have built several in the 45 to 55 lb range. I find for a 45 lb bow, 60 inches long, a maple limb thickness of 3/16th inch,about 1 3/8th inch wide, with fibreglass facing and backing works well. I have made my own facing and backing by taking the strands out of roving and laying them up unidirectionally, and putting a slight pressure on them to squash out the excess resin. Too much pressure and you squash out all the resin. I forget the thickness of fibreglass I ended up with, but will check it out . It was the same thickness as commercially made fibreglass I have used in the past . Don't rely on polyester resin for the glue lines. It doesn't stick to wood very well. Epoxy two part glue from Industrial Plastics, made by Industrial Formulators works well. Strips of innertube make good gluing clamps. Be careful ,and don't put too much on. It can crush wood, and force all the glue out. Slightly roughing up the surfaces with a rasp can make for stronger glue lines.

[solo]

I get rawhide from the moccasin store in Abbotsford. They usually have several different kinds, and lots of leathers.

[Bowzone_Mikey]

orsage with bamboo backing ... looks and performs awesome

[rollingrock]

orsage with bamboo backing ... looks and performs awesome

No kidding!:mrgreen:

[Jerry Potts]

Fibreglass facing and backing makes them more stable, and drastically reduces breaking.

[rollingrock]

orsage with bamboo backing ... looks and performs awesome

This is a custom made Mongolian recurve laminated with bamboo and orsage. It's made here by a true bower. Extremely fast and quiet.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/done_9.jpg


http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/done_4.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/done_3.jpg

[Monashee]

Nice bow . Who made it , specs ? What type of release do you use ?



This is a custom made Mongolian recurve laminated with bamboo and orsage. It's made here by a true bower. Extremely fast and quiet.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/done_9.jpg


http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/done_4.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/done_3.jpg

[rollingrock]

Nice bow . Who made it , specs ? What type of release do you use ?

Alex Lee from Burnaby designed and crafted this line. Here is another one he made for an Asian client. His bows can be used in all weather conditions, but this one wasn't designed for hunting if you look at the riser. But it won't be difficult for him to mod it to fit for hunting. The release....

This bow is 50" stringed, 48# at 28". It shoots really smooth and different from typical North American style recurve. Chrono test showed that the arrow speed was at par with my Black Widow.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/3rd_bow-1.jpg



http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/3rd_bow-4.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/3rd_bow-5.jpg


http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/3rd_bow-6.jpg



http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/26495_25351_2.jpg

[rollingrock]

Another one in the same line, still designed for an Asian traditional archer. This one had a slight mod which made shooting even better. Similar specs with the above one.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/4th_bow_4.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/4th_bow_1.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/4th_bow_2.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/4th_bow_7.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/4th_bow_5.jpg

[Bowzone_Mikey]

Those are sweet Bows!!!!!
True Works of art

[greybark]

Hey Rollingrock, those are very sweet looking bows . I like how the Bowyer uses highly figured Bacote and Cocobola in the risers . I beleive the limb veneers in the last pic are Cocobolo and give great character to the beautiful lines of the bow .
PM sent .
Cheers

[Gateholio]

Can't you ust get a sheet of maple plywood, cut it in strips, laminate together and shape it? :) Kinda a joke, but kinda serious. Wouldn't that work ?

[Drillbit]

If it helps, I have one of those presses with the firehose in it for compression while glueing ( I assume). I'm obviously not using it, cause I really don't know how, but I could put it on the bus for you to use. One day when you're done with it, you could send it back up north somehow, no hurry.

PM me if that would help out with your project, and if you want to use it.

[biggyun68]

If you can get your hands on Pacific Yew (not uncommon around Whistler) it is very good and traditional wood species for bows.

[greybark]

Hey Gatehouse , The integraty of that ply is so varied that it would be unstable . Your concept is a valid one in that Plywood in special sheets is in common use in bow manufacting . Most common is Birch and Maple and is called "Action Wood" and is appreciated by Boyers for its stabilaty and used in risers and limbs .. The Sheet is rather unique in that it consists of many small veneers and the 4x8x 2in thick can run into Thousands of dollars ....
Cheers

[new hunter]

Anyone still interested , buddy at work bought a crossbow and is going for his PAL as well .
As for myself , I still love primitive weapons , but I gave my old long bow to an anti who has slowly been coming around , and I will be replacing it with another long bow which I will be carving out of vine maple , once the limb has cured enough .

[Gateholio]

Hey Gatehouse , The integraty of that ply is so varied that it would be unstable . Your concept is a valid one in that Plywood in special sheets is in common use in bow manufacting . Most common is Birch and Maple and is called "Action Wood" and is appreciated by Boyers for its stabilaty and used in risers and limbs .. The Sheet is rather unique in that it consists of many small veneers and the 4x8x 2in thick can run into Thousands of dollars ....
Cheers

.Interesting...Can you tell us more? Good quality plywood is very strong, but it's strength is usually in it's application of a flat surface. I take it that when repeatedly flexed it will break down?

[wildcatter]

Just a shot in the dark, would kevlar be better than fibreglass?

[greybark]

.Interesting...Can you tell us more? Good quality plywood is very strong, but it's strength is usually in it's application of a flat surface. I take it that when repeatedly flexed it will break down?

Hey GH , lately so called plywood are also made with Bamboo and is called Actionboo , a lamination of 60 thousand thick and 2in wide x 4 ft can fetch $25 .
Go on Binghams Bow Supply for number of plys per inch . Note no air or glue voids ....
Cheers

[greybark]

If you can get your hands on Pacific Yew (not uncommon around Whistler) it is very good and traditional wood species for bows.

I would check out the legalality of cutting Yew Trees .........
Cheers

[rollingrock]

Hey Rollingrock, those are very sweet looking bows . I like how the Bowyer uses highly figured Bacote and Cocobola in the risers . I beleive the limb veneers in the last pic are Cocobolo and give great character to the beautiful lines of the bow .
PM sent .
Cheers

Someone knows the secret!:mrgreen:

All these bows are backed with bamboo. You will see something more interesting down the road.

[new hunter]

Laminate bows use the same Idea as ply wood , exept without alternating the direction of grain .wereas ply wood has one sheet with grain running left to right , glued onto grain running up and down repeated , laminate bow material has all the grain in each layer running in the same direction ( up and down ).
The construction of a laminate ( or composite ) bow is usually to to three layers of different materials .
The face or backing is made of a material that has both long continuos uninterupted grain ( to resist splitting under tension ) , and also must resist stretching .
An apropriate wood would be bamboo , but people often use leathers or raw hide or even linen . Other woods ( other than bamboo ) would need to have the grain chased to prevent splitting .
Surface closest to the arch (opposite to the backing ) should be a hard wood that resist compression , such as Iron wood , maple , Ipe , even horn or antler can be used .
the two opposing forces , resisted tension on the outside , resisted compression on the inside creates a far more effective spring than force than a regular one peice of wood bow (also known as self backed ) .
technically a laminate bow is like a ply wood , but only as much as a laminate rifle stock is ply wood .
in the case of a three material laminate bow , the middle wood simply acts as a buffer between the back and inside material .
the easiest way to make a bow is to simply dry out a limb or tree branch , leave the bark on one side and do all your carving on one side , leaving the bark on the side of the bow that will be the face ( actually called the back , go figure ) .
once the bow is getting close to completion , peel ( do not cut or carve ) the bark away being sure not to cut into the wood grain below the bark , then finish tillering ( carving so that both upper and lower limbs flex equally at all points ).

[Jerry Potts]

Howard Hill laminated his bows out of bamboo, with fibreglass facing and backing.The glass looked like common fibreglass cloth wetted out.