How to tell if it's a shooter Billy ?

[Manglinmike]

I am planning a trip this fall into the EK and on my list is a billy,I was hopping that some of you goat hunters could give me some pointers on field judging billies,any info is good info . thanks manglinmike:twisted:

[BabineGuide]

The number one rule for me is if there is any doubt....don't shoot. You will recognize a cranker immediately.

Often big billies are alone or in small groups. Although this isn't always the rule...
Their horns will appear really close together, almost touching...due to the enlarged scent glands located just behind each horn. Smaller billies have these also...but in my experience the bigger, older animals have more pronounced glands...
Most guys will talk about how a billies horns gradually curve etc... which is true, but every 10''+ billy i've ever seen appeared almost straight horned...

Good luck

[yukon john]

you'll know when you see one, its like a big bear there is no doubt when its a cranker. Dont talk yourself into one just because it provide an opportunity. Bases are a good indicator they will look like they are almost touching.

[BCbillies]

Depends what your definition of shooter is? For some a shooter will be 8 1/2" or a 9 1/2" or even a 10 1/2". If you're going solo or with another rookie it is unlikely you will know the difference until it's hoofs are in the air.

Just get out there, have fun, be careful and focus on bringing home a billy. If it's during the rut the billies will be the ones harrassing the nannies! :)

[swampthing]

Goats are tough to judge dude. I looked at a goat last year and thought it was a nanny. I continued glassing and finally went for a closer look. I ended up taking my best billy which was a 10.5 incher. Take your time and dont worry too much about size. Focus on taking a billy. The smallest billy I took was just shy of 8 inches. It was a great hunt with a good friend. There was bigger nannies on the mountain, which are legal to shoot, but taking a billy is the best for "goat management" . Any billy is a worthy trophy. The country that goats hang in is addictive.

[snareman1234]

Great advice Swampthing and BCBillies, thats what my plan is if I get drawn for a goat in the Koots!

[Rattler]

First off I have been fooled on two billies now...and have never taken a book Billy. I highly recommend having an experienced goat hunter with you who is your "guide" and whom you trust to know big Billies. Having a friend being your eyes so to speak and judging goats will allow you to not only focus on the big ones, but also tell you if the goats switch places, which can happen easily without you knowing. Booner Billies look like they have stove pipes on their heads and as Yukon John stated above, if in doubt, don't shoot. Use their ears to judge the length of their horns and use other goats to compare horn sizes. You will find the big Billies will really stand out compared to nannies. Like others have said look for a narrow gap between the bases. Lastly, don't be fooled with dirty goats always being billies if your hunting late season...seen some really dirty nannies in November. Best of luck!

[boxhitch]

Billy vs Nannie ..........watch how they piss. Billies stand up , forward. Nannies sit back

Judging size of a single goat is tough. A young short face will make 8" horns seem long.
Eyes and ears size doesn't change in proportion to the rest of the face length as age goes on.
Large buggy eyes will be a young animal
Inside dark portion of the ear is about 4"
Look for that long horse face, age trumps horn size IMO.

[Caveman]

It was a great hunt with a good friend.

Bob, care to take out another friend?? :wink:

[Alpine Addict]

Billy's are the white ones

[Alpine Addict]

Serious Tip though, Im no goat expert but make sure its in a safe spot when you shoot. I shot one and had it roll down a 1000ft chute. boy is that depressing.

[brad ferris]

I agree with boxhitch on the age over size issue when it comes to billies. Look for that horse face roman nose, big well developed scent pads. Horn bases that are bigger across than the eyeball and appear to come together in the middle.
Avoid groups with kids. Concave (dished ;) ) faces. And horns with a prominent hard hook in the last 2 inches or so.

[porcupine]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?13407-Field-Judging-Goats&highlight=field+judging+mountain+goats

Be sure to read bcmulie's post

[valleycowboy]

all great tips and thought i would add my own little tip.
if you are watching the goats, watch for them to take a piss.nannies squat and the billies stretch out to do the deed.
there are some really good videos and pics on the net if you google it.

[ThinAir]

If you see them mating shoot the one on top :)

[guest]

A good long horned Billy as many say will have very little space between the horns. The horns do curve back gradually more on a Bill rather then a hook like what nannies have. Look for the Scent glands behind the horns. The horns are as long as the face on a big Bill. Also Bills tend to look off white to yellowish, often have rub or dirt stains more on the butt, blocky, solo creatures most often except very early or rut season.

They will test your mental and physical ability. Just take pictures if you can't drop it with out the possible chance of loosing it or your life to retrieve it.

Good Luck

CT

[.270]

Here are some illustrations I found helpful. http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/hunting/goathunting/pdfs/goat_info.pdf

By the way if you're not used to looking at goats you might think they are all big. The way the long hairs fluff up in the wind makes them look massive. Another thing to consider is just because a goat is alone or with just one other goat does not guarantee that it's a billy, take the time and look them over in detail, you should have lots of time to do this.

[todbartell]

If you see them mating shoot the one on top :)

what if one is on their back? :D

That would make one hell of a full body taxidermy scene..........nanny reverse cowgirl, maybe a jackalope sitting on the billy's face

ok I better stop

[steel_ram]

There is some info on the web since this is a common issue everywhere Mt. Goats are hunted.

Here's one: http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/GoatIDandQuiz/

[kennyj]

Billy vs Nannie ..........watch how they piss. Billies stand up , forward. Nannies sit back

Judging size of a single goat is tough. A young short face will make 8" horns seem long.
Eyes and ears size doesn't change in proportion to the rest of the face length as age goes on.
Large buggy eyes will be a young animal
Inside dark portion of the ear is about 4"
Look for that long horse face, age trumps horn size IMO.
Thats great advice right there.
kenny

[sherpa-Al]

Lots of good info here. For myself, if I'm loooking for a cranker there is a couple of things I look for.

Large body. Easier to distinguish if there is more than one goat in the group.
Long face. Look for a billy that has a long snout. The older a goat is the longer his snout will be.
Ears to horn length. Look for a billy that has horns that are twice as long as his ears.
Width of face. Look for a billy that has a wider, more filled in face, look for lots of fur between the eyes.
Width of horns at the tips. Older billies horns will tend to flare out as their skull grows.

If you can find a goat with a couple of these characteristics chances are you have found a good goat. A few years ago my buddy and I found 3 billies bedded at 340 yards, with no chance of getting closer. We laid on the cold rocks looking those goats over hard for an hour trying to decide which one was the biggest. 2 goats looked great, crisp facial lines, nice sharp black, long horns which appeared to be around 10 inches. The 3rd goat was scruffy, had what appeared to be shorter, dirtier, wider horns and had a disproportional head to body size (bigger head than one would expect). It took some convincing but I talked him into shooting that billy and it turned out to be a 10 1/4 incher, with good weight throughout. The other two goats hung around while we dressed that goat and they were definately smaller.

Spend as much time looking over a billy as you can, checking his ears, head size, body length. You may or may not find the goat you are looking for but remember, every goat is a trophy and don't sweat it if you decide to take a small goat on your first trip. You'll have more chances, because chasing these things is very addicting.

Al.

[lange1212]

A young goat will have a short snout (distance between eye and tip of the nose). At about 5-6 years of age the snout length will be considerably longer than that of a younger goat. When glassing at a distance I try to determine billy or nanny by horn mass and body structure. Then I will look at the length of the nose to determine if its a mature animal and worth making the effort to getting a closer look at. Then I judge the length of the horns by comparing them to the length of the ears which are consistant at 5". You have to account for the curve in the horn and if it's about twice the length of the ear it's a great billy.

[Manglinmike]

Hey guys I just got in from being away for the weekend and I would just like to take the time to say thank you for all of the very good info, now I just have to get the draw,and drag my sorry fat a$$ up some dirty big mountians!