End of hunting in BC is nearing...sooner than you think!

[StoneChaser]

QCI Bear Season is basically eliminated now:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/news/

Here is another area on the way out (scroll down):

http://www.raincoast.org/projects/grizzly-bears/acquisitions/ (http://www.raincoast.org/projects/grizzly-bears/acquisitions/)

While the BCWF and GOABC squabble over quota and resident priority (so much for AAH), backroom deals between First Nations and the Anti's are being cooked up and our hunting rights are being pissed away by the BC Liberals........

It may be "just" black bears "somewhere else" right now, but it's coming to an area near you, just wait and see!

It's time to write and/or call your MLA and remind them it's nearly election time!!!!

[d6dan]

Lovely.:?. Down to 4 bears :?. The Liberals must have some pressure from the natives?,GO's.?.Thanks for the link Stonechaser..

[markm7]

Well then there will be a he'll of alot of poaching ......

[Caribou_lou]

I'm sure the locals over there will continue to harvest bears!

But yes this is a real eye opener.

[srupp]

Just spoke with Chris..the PREZ of the rainforest protection..WOW gotta save that guy..hes determained to vote LIBERAL..its a PAYCHECK and a JOB he has no interest in FACTS..nor that these bears are being hunted by sporteman residents..THATS HIS NEXT AGENDA... sorry to have to tell him my 2.5 million will be going else where..lol...spoke like a zombie..AND because he says something its FACT..when I presented some "facts" based on 30 plus years..he loundly complained..." YOUR ONE OF THOSE TROPHY HUNTERS""...hmmmmm scarey type of individual...$$$$$$$$$$ job...dont want the facts just spread his rhetoric...sad....

sad Elmer

[Jelvis]

What it looks like their saying is are you a "Trophy Hunter" or hunting for meat to eat ( sustenance )?
This is where a lot of people including hunters I find argue about continually.
JP .. Some on here say, The wolves ate all the deer and the locals shot them off etc .. Maybe it's rubbing off in the media ..?
No more animals here now like before. Over and over people see this type of talk. :cry:
Now it's all politics and dealings and money .. budda bing budda bang budda boom!
Time to use facts with a scientific base and listen to the bio's for a change ..............Hey I listen hard when the bcmoebio group speak2
I know we all love the bush and the beasts but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot.

[Gateholio]

BCWF was on this in 2008

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?27792-Black-bear-hunting-opportunity-being-given-away

It's a shame that more hunters didn't pay attention and write letters back then. Now it's too late.

[StoneChaser]

OK, so they were on it Nov 2008......so what happened after that?

[Weatherby Fan]

It's all about resourses and negotiating land claims and it started with the commercial fishing,then the logging, and Ive seen first hand with the commercial sports sector,and now the the hunting,We were told that this was going to happen in 1990 at one of our union meetings with the Government at that time,if I recall it was the Peter Pearse report and were informed that by year 2000 there would be very little commercial fishing left on the BC coast and none in the QCI,there not to far off on there goals.
Better get some huntin in the rest of BC well you still can !

[CanuckShooter]

QCI Bear Season is basically eliminated now:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/news/

Here is another area on the way out (scroll down):

http://www.raincoast.org/projects/grizzly-bears/acquisitions/ (http://www.raincoast.org/projects/grizzly-bears/acquisitions/)

While the BCWF and GOABC squabble over quota and resident priority (so much for AAH), backroom deals between First Nations and the Anti's are being cooked up and our hunting rights are being pissed away by the BC Liberals........

It may be "just" black bears "somewhere else" right now, but it's coming to an area near you, just wait and see!

It's time to write and/or call your MLA and remind them it's nearly election time!!!!


Better yet start organizing people to run for office indepenantly...the only way to effect any change is to have sitting MLAs on our side and that means only voting for active hunters and fishermen that will stand up for residents. DB for east van????????????????

[Gateholio]

OK, so they were on it Nov 2008......so what happened after that?

Not enough hunters in BC cared enough to do anything about it. That is what happened.

BCWF volunteers can only do so much. People SRUPP are describing that have full time jobs to devote to one issue will always have a head start on the unpaid volunteer organizations. The fact is, most hunters sit around and do nothing until it's too late and then blame the BCWF volunteers for not doing enough.....

But there is no time like the present for everyone to get started. Write your letters, talk to your MLAs.

[GoatGuy]

OK, so they were on it Nov 2008......so what happened after that?

Personally probably 25-30 meetings with politicians, bureaucrats and Coastal First Nations on this plus, press releases, letters, conference calls etc just on this issue. Couple hundred hours and money out of pocket. This actually started in the late 90s and there's plenty of info out there.

Here's the latest from Jan/11

http://www.bcwf.net/images/stories/pdf/Grizzly_Bear_Brief_Jan_18.pdf

[180grainer]

BCWF was on this in 2008

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?27792-Black-bear-hunting-opportunity-being-given-away

It's a shame that more hunters didn't pay attention and write letters back then. Now it's too late.

And that's it in a nut shell. Lots of guys spend their time whining on such forums as this but do very little if in fact anything in soliciting their MLA or MP. If you think the BCWF or GOABC are going to save your right to hunt, think again. You'd better get involved on a personal level if you want your kids to have the same opportunities to hunt that you have.

[sawmill]

It seems odd that the QCI folks would want to get rid of one of the few revenue sources they have there.Certainly no shortage of bears but there is almost no work.

[GoatGuy]

It seems odd that the QCI folks would want to get rid of one of the few revenue sources they have there.Certainly no shortage of bears but there is almost no work.

FN doesn't support 'trophy hunting' and they've got plenty of $.

[Weatherby Fan]

FN doesn't support 'trophy hunting' and they've got plenty of $.

They may have lots of money but thats what this is about about the resourses,money and control,and before long thats who you will be paying to set foot on the QCI let alone hunt there.

[CanuckShooter]

They may have lots of money but thats what this is about about the resourses,money and control,and before long thats who you will be paying to set foot on the QCI let alone hunt there.

Just remember to vote Liberal in the next provincial election....we have all see who they look after. :-(

[CanuckShooter]

Personally probably 25-30 meetings with politicians, bureaucrats and Coastal First Nations on this plus, press releases, letters, conference calls etc just on this issue. Couple hundred hours and money out of pocket. This actually started in the late 90s and there's plenty of info out there.

Here's the latest from Jan/11

http://www.bcwf.net/images/stories/pdf/Grizzly_Bear_Brief_Jan_18.pdf


Why don't you run for MLA of "toon town" then you wouldn't be wasting time with 20-30 meetings with people who don't care about hunting or our wildlife resources??????????????????????????

[GoatGuy]

Why don't you run for MLA of "toon town" then you wouldn't be wasting time with 20-30 meetings with people who don't care about hunting or our wildlife resources??????????????????????????

Hahaha, that would entail spending all the time in meetings with people who don't care about hunting or wildlife resources.

Hunters need to understand how threatened their future in the outdoors is and secondly how to drive change.

I believe we're starting to get pointed in the right direction.

[CanuckShooter]

http://www.newrelationship.gov.bc.ca/

This is the work of our current majority Liberal government.....and your seeing the results on Haida Gwaii.....the only way I see us truly affecting positive change to save our sport [s] is by direct involvment in the politics of running our province. When was the last time you heard these issues being aired at all candidates forums??

http://www.leg.bc.ca/39th2nd/1st_read/gov18-1.htm

and a little more in depth...explaining why these things are happening.....

Thank you Gordon Campbell.

[Gateholio]

I don't see this as a Liberal or NDP issue. Last time NDP were in power they outright banned grizzly bear hunting. I see this as a native and environmentalist issue that needs to get dealt with regardless of who is in government.

[CanuckShooter]

I don't see this as a Liberal or NDP issue. Last time NDP were in power they outright banned grizzly bear hunting. I see this as a native and environmentalist issue that needs to get dealt with regardless of who is in government.

Who is making these deals with the natives? It's not david suzuki......it's the current government. They are making deals on a 'government to government' basis.....you have to read the spin as that statement alone is very telling on the direction the current Liberal government is heading. The 'spirit bears' and 'spotted owls' are also being protected....but for very different reasons.

You vote for the Liberals you can expect, without a doubt, that they WILL be selling us out more than they have already. How that compares with what the NDP did with protecting grizz bears really is a moot point because what is happening is being done under the direction of Liberal MLAs.

[Gateholio]

Natives and Environmentalists aren't going to go away with an NDP government.

[Bow Walker]

Yup. It's all about $$$,$$$,$$$.$$ to the natives and VOTES for the party to get and hold power. Whatever it takes to get "in" Government - and then whatever it takes to stay there as long as possible. Forget about doing what's right. The environmentalists are jumping on the band wagon. Opportunistic bunch of ill informed, head-in-the-sand people that they are.

[Fisher-Dude]

Who is making these deals with the natives? It's not david suzuki......it's the current government. They are making deals on a 'government to government' basis.....you have to read the spin as that statement alone is very telling on the direction the current Liberal government is heading. The 'spirit bears' and 'spotted owls' are also being protected....but for very different reasons.

You vote for the Liberals you can expect, without a doubt, that they WILL be selling us out more than they have already. How that compares with what the NDP did with protecting grizz bears really is a moot point because what is happening is being done under the direction of Liberal MLAs.

Who got grizzly bear hunting banned by the NDP? It was natives and environmentalists on the coast.

[silvicon]

I told you years ago that this will happen.
but who was listening? Everybody busy with GO bashing and running off their mouth about not getting 5 moose per year and so on.
What Gov. to Gov. deal? since when do indians have a government?
who pays for it (their 'government')?
working voting taxpayer of the province!
next election vote BC Conservative!!

[huntwriter]

Loosing hunting opportunities is a long time coming and hunters are to blame for it. Hunters are great at complaining and whining but they stink at being proactive. I get at least four emails per week with a link to some anti hunting writing, the accompanying note usually says "Somebody should do something about that." I write back "You're that somebody get busy."

Last year I talked to a government person and was told that of 100 letters written by anti-hunters, animal rights and special interest groups they get maybe 2 letters from hunters. With a record like this we should not be surprised that the antis and assorted interest groups get the nod. What this lack of hunter pro activism tells the government is that we do not care, so why should they care about us.

Over the last two years hunter numbers and license sales climb steadily in our province but if we want to keep what we have we all need to be a lot more proactive and whine less or we stand to loose what we have. Any hunter that finds time to come on a forum such as this and complain about loosing hunting opportunity has also time to write e-mails to the government and other political reps.

[Devilbear]

Silvicon, did you really, how very kind of you to instruct we lesser mortals in matters concerning our wildlife resource and with such outstanding epistolary ability, it is simply amazing....boy, is it ever!

[Devilbear]

Loosing hunting opportunities is a long time coming and hunters are to blame for it. Hunters are great at complaining and whining but they stink at being proactive. I get at least four emails per week with a link to some anti hunting writing, the accompanying note usually says "Somebody should do something about that." I write back "You're that somebody get busy."

Last year I talked to a government person and was told that of 100 letters written by anti-hunters, animal rights and special interest groups they get maybe 2 letters from hunters. With a record like this we should not be surprised that the antis and assorted interest groups get the nod. What this lack of hunter pro activism tells the government is that we do not care, so why should they care about us.

Over the last two years hunter numbers and license sales climb steadily in our province but if we want to keep what we have we all need to be a lot more proactive and whine less or we stand to loose what we have. Any hunter that finds time to come on a forum such as this and complain about loosing hunting opportunity has also time to write e-mails to the government and other political reps.

This is an oversimplification of the contemporary situation here in BC and I would be cautious about drawing such a conclusion from one conversation ...with a government person.... The issues have been dealt with by the BCWF and that is why so few have written to the various "boffins" concerned.

There are several major causative factors in the declining opportunities for BC resident hunters and they all must be considered carefully, before one takes action as some of the excessive and ludicrous rhetoric on this forum indicates. We need a change in government and that will do more to make the changes we seek than all the letters to the current bunch of "sellouts" and the MOE minions who do their bidding.

[Whisky Creek]

http://www.raincoast.org/projects/grizzly-bears/acquisitions/

Motives are clear with these anti-groups.......

[Jelvis]

Natives are not supposed to "Trophy Hunt" by law only for sustenance purposes lol, quit blaming the laws on natives it's government who shares the pens.
You don't want indians having trophy heads but meat is ok, that's why they took that sheep head from Oliver from the indian but he kept the meat.
Everything that was made regulation and laws are coming back to nip in the ass now.
Indians are told no trophy hunting only meat hunting for food.
Look it up for yourselves.
Don't blame indians for everything the authorities made the laws and regulation with lawyers and now they must live up to their own consequences by regulations they made.
Jelly only sustenances .. pard .. three strikes your out .. please try again ..

[6 K]

This law is beyond stupid.
There are a huge # of b-bears over there.
How do we put these idiots back in their place?
You can bet the .......... g/o gets more than 4.

[MattW]

We deal with some of the same issues in farming. We get agendas pushed on us that make no sense but the groups pushing for them have big bucks and people pursuing these agendas relentlessly as a profession, it's a big business and they're pushing regardless of which party is governing. I think one idea would be to unite with other industries who are also being targeted by these groups. Examples would be fishing, mining, logging and farming. Then we need to start putting forth our own agenda as aggresively as possible.

[huntwriter]

We deal with some of the same issues in farming. We get agendas pushed on us that make no sense but the groups pushing for them have big bucks and people pursuing these agendas relentlessly as a profession, it's a big business and they're pushing regardless of which party is governing. I think one idea would be to unite with other industries who are also being targeted by these groups. Examples would be fishing, mining, logging and farming. Then we need to start putting forth our own agenda as aggresively as possible.

That is exactly what needs to be done. The problem is though that hunters are very divided among themselves. If a law is made that negatively impacts gun hunters the archers will say, "I am not a gun hunter this does not affect me." and the other way around. If hunters among themselves are so divided how can they begin to understand the importance of uniting with other non-hunting interest groups. The antis know that and take full advantage of it.

We see the same in the animal husbandry. Farmers, Zoos, Circuses, Rodeo and many others rather struggle on their own against the animal rights rather than join forces. If hunters alone would unite and get proactive the antis wouldn't have a chance. This has been proven several times south of the border in the few rare occasions where hunters of all interests joined and spoke up as one voice.

Devilbear is wrong, pro-activism does work. Whenever a large number of people get up and speak out as a united voice the government WILL take note. This is why animal rights, a very small but very vocal minority, are so successful. The various animal rights, anti hunting and environmental organizations may not see eye to eye on many issues but when it comes to lobbying against hunting or animal husbandry they join forces, hunters do not and that is the probelm.

[Tim]

Good gracious I hate politics, backroom deals, and this pursuit of financial and "power" gains. The more I look at western civilization and the route we're going seems to start to hint of other great cultures that became more and more political (i.e. Rome) until they fell in on them selves.

But hey, it took Rome a long time to fall, maybe we here in the west have a couple hundred more years of B.S. politics to choke down. And they wonder why the younger generation doesnt care about voting... I'm 24 and have never really cared too much. I mean why would you when you have so many backdoor deals and crap coming out of the woodworks all the time. All the parties are probably funding by the same big bank or investor controlling the country. (maybe a little bit of a rant) but the point remains, crap like this wont go away till the West goes under a major overhaul, politically.

[Devilbear]

We said exactly the same thing, forty years ago, when I ws 24 and I would ask, have things changed very much?

As an "activist" for conservation here in BC and, to some extent, the rest of Canada, since I was 15, in 1961, very vocally and with dozens of published comments in divers media outlets, I can tell you that little really changes in this situation and the forces now changing Canada and our traditions, hunting and many others, are largely what you allude to....international banking, "follow the money" being the foremost among them.

As far as change is concerned, the bank clerk and major Amer.-Anglo poet, Thomas Stearns Eliot, once wrote, ...in order to be cured, our illness must grow wors... and that is happening, as we speak. Your generation will see changes in Canada and worldwide that were considered wild comic book fantasy when I was starting school and, hunting as we have known it will probably not survive.

[Steeleco]

Just remember to vote Liberal in the next provincial election....we have all see who they look after. :-(

It was the NDP that shut down the Grizz hunt without the 2 years it took the Liberals do pull off this stunt. It was also Liberals that undid the NDP's actions and allowed hunting Grizz. Don't get me wrong, they're both not to be trusted, but we need to vote for someone.

[Jelvis]

Use your vote if you can vote to-day at the advanced polls open to-day.
Federal ones today for Federal Government seats so vote or don't beeatch.
Provincial coming soon with Crissty and dix in the mix .. dah?
Jel ok ,,yer ok k? .. vote .. vote .. 2day .. don't procrastinate dare 2b grrr8

[Whisky Creek]

You can bet the .......... g/o gets more than 4.

I'll bet you "Not"....

Do you know who the outfitter is and how many bears he takes?
If you look at the history books on this one, you just might be surprised....

I believe that this kind of "G/O vs Resident" BS certainly doesn't help, yet again. We are all hunters and should be standing together on an important and precident setting issues like this one in order to provide a stronger front to prevent the anti's from sneaking in.

[Jelvis]

Too late to turn back now, after decades of hunters out there in BC hunting.
Generations and have seen many changes to the Hunting and Trapping reg's too many to remember, gos length of days open, antlerless regulation variables, leh, amount of harvest adjustments, point restriction, split seasons in 5, etc.
Region changes in the eighties, from 4 to 8 like watergate to me what?
It happens, changes no one likes changes. But everything changes from moment to moment. Get in the mix, pick it up Princess, lol.
Jel (the Natural Dandy Contour's) .. Your down but yer not out, GIT UP!

[StoneChaser]

Clint, while I agree with you here, I also have ZERO respect for the increasing number of outfitters that carved a way of life out of the industry, and are now selling out knowingly to the Antis....

I won't start throwing names around, but I can think of at least 3 areas right now that have been sold off to the Antis, and another one or two that are on the way out.


I'll bet you "Not"....

Do you know who the outfitter is and how many bears he takes?
If you look at the history books on this one, you just might be surprised....

I believe that this kind of "G/O vs Resident" BS certainly doesn't help, yet again. We are all hunters and should be standing together on an important and precident setting issues like this one in order to provide a stronger front to prevent the anti's from sneaking in.

[Whisky Creek]

StoneChaser,
Yep, I agree 100% with you. It shows the true insides of a guy when he knowingly sells out to the Anti's after it has provided him with a living for so long, don't it? I know the names of those guys too, as should everyone. True character can never be compromised by money..... Speaks volumes about the integrity of certain ones....
The surprising thing is the price that one certain area sold for..... Not at the premium I would have expected he would demand from the anti's. I have to wonder if they sold out to them, in part, due to frustration and just to say to the radical RH groups, "There, you think I made your hunting chances difficult, try these new owners out!" ???????????

[eric]

I have sent off a letter letting the ministry of environment know how pissed off i am on their brain dead thinking on this one.

Man this needs to have all us hunters protesting on the front lawn of the Legislature building in Victoria.
Besides writing letters and letting the hunting community know what is going on.
What else can a person do ???

[eric]

StoneChaser,
Yep, I agree 100% with you. It shows the true insides of a guy when he knowingly sells out to the Anti's after it has provided him with a living for so long, don't it? I know the names of those guys too, as should everyone. True character can never be compromised by money..... Speaks volumes about the integrity of certain ones....
The surprising thing is the price that one sold for..... Not at the premium I would have expected.

Maybe their NAMES should be broadcast all over the NET......Let the hunting community know who the SCUMBAGS are.

Or is this info available, if a person looks hard enough.
I'm pretty computer illiterate so I would'nt know where to start

[Mr. Dean]

What else can a person do ???

STAY INFORMED!

- Put this link on the top of your favourites list and check it out weekly. http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/
- If not already, consider becoming a member of the BCWF. As our only lobby group, they need all the financial support they can muster.
- This issue has been raised several times and input sought for on HBC. Keep a keen eye on the lookout for other such issues and don't fear in getting involved a little.

Basically, do all that you can.

[Fisher-Dude]

I'll bet you "Not"....

Do you know who the outfitter is and how many bears he takes?
If you look at the history books on this one, you just might be surprised....

I believe that this kind of "G/O vs Resident" BS certainly doesn't help, yet again. We are all hunters and should be standing together on an important and precident setting issues like this one in order to provide a stronger front to prevent the anti's from sneaking in.


Non-residents currently kill 20 - 25 black bears in 6-12 and 12 - 20 in 6-13. That's about 40 a year in my books. Non-residents averaged 55% of the harvest in the 20 year period 1976 - 2006, with the last 5 years averaging 78% of total harvest.

[Whisky Creek]

FisherDud,

I don't give a $hiT about your stats from the past, it is a moot point in this case now. The question or statement was, "You can bet the GO gets more than 4 bears", or something to that effect. Why don't you tell him how many bears the GO actually gets now, or if there is a GO operating there now, or how your almighty organization was able to stop this from happening...... or didn't. Yeah, I agree that they did try to stop it with the letter campaign etc starting in 2008, I have the letters, but the fact is they obviously didn't succeed. Maybe we shouldn't put all of our eggs in one basket. Maybe the basket has a whole bunch of holes in it.... Money and membership numbers won't fix that. Perhaps you should spend more energy focused on preventing these kind of things from happening and less on the "who gets what"... If there is nothing to get, then it won't matter, will it? Yes I know that your organization did write letters to the Premier and the MOE stating that they were working with BC Trappers and GOABC and were "all in agreement and in staunch opposition" to this "4 bears" hunt, but then they turn around and fight them the next day on every other issue. Fair weather friends, so to speak. So really, how much credibility does the BC Wildlife Coalition have, and how much clout does it carry with gov't at the current time? Likely not much if they aren't in solidarity 99% of the time.

My prediction now is that this black bear hunt will be closed within a couple years unless gov't is somehow forced to reconsider. The anti's who succeeded here, will be screaming "over harvest" when the MOE doesn't close the hunt quick enough after the 4 bears are killed, and they will pressure MOE to shut down the hunt because they can't control it. It would have been better to have this hunt turned into LEH instead of the situation it is in now. Oh, except, your organization wants to do away with LEH, not use it as a tool. This hunt is now designed to fail, which will result in a complete closure of the hunt.

[CanuckShooter]

FisherDud,

I don't give a $hiT about your stats from the past, the question or statement was, "I'll bet the GO isn't limited to 4 bears", or something to that effect.
Why don't you tell him how many bears the GO gets now, or if there is a GO there now, or how your almighty and all powerful organization was able to stop this from happening...... or didn't. Yeah, I agree that they did try to stop it with the letter campaign etc, I have the letters, but the fact is they didn't succeed. Maybe we shouldn't put all of our eggs in one basket. Maybe the basket has a whole bunch of holes in it....
Perhaps you should spend more energy focused on preventing these kind of things from happening and less on the "who gets what"...
If there is nothing to get, then it won't matter, will it? My prediction now is that this hunt will be closed within a couple years unless gov't is somehow forced to reconsider. The anti's who succeeded here, will be screaming "over harvest" when the MOE doesn't close the hunt quick enough after the 4 bears are killed, and they will pressure MOE to shut down the hunt because they can't control it. It would have been better to have this hunt turned into LEH instead of the situation it is in now. Oh, except, your organization wants to do away with LEH, not use it as a tool. This hunt is now designed to fail, which will result in a complete closure of the hunt.


Sounds like you have a beef with the BCWF??? Why don't you answer the question about how many tags the guide there has or doesn't?? It sounds like you know the answer???

[Devilbear]

FisherDud,

I don't give a $hiT about your stats from the past, it is a moot point in this case now. The question or statement was, "You can bet the GO gets more than 4 bears", or something to that effect. Why don't you tell him how many bears the GO actually gets now, or if there is a GO operating there now, or how your almighty organization was able to stop this from happening...... or didn't. Yeah, I agree that they did try to stop it with the letter campaign etc starting in 2008, I have the letters, but the fact is they obviously didn't succeed. Maybe we shouldn't put all of our eggs in one basket. Maybe the basket has a whole bunch of holes in it.... Money and membership numbers won't fix that. Perhaps you should spend more energy focused on preventing these kind of things from happening and less on the "who gets what"... If there is nothing to get, then it won't matter, will it? Yes I know that your organization did write letters to the Premier and the MOE stating that they were working with BC Trappers and GOABC and were "all in agreement and in staunch opposition" to this "4 bears" hunt, but then they turn around and fight them the next day on every other issue. Fair weather friends, so to speak. So really, how much credibility does the BC Wildlife Coalition have, and how much clout does it carry with gov't at the current time? Likely not much if they aren't in solidarity 99% of the time.

My prediction now is that this black bear hunt will be closed within a couple years unless gov't is somehow forced to reconsider. The anti's who succeeded here, will be screaming "over harvest" when the MOE doesn't close the hunt quick enough after the 4 bears are killed, and they will pressure MOE to shut down the hunt because they can't control it. It would have been better to have this hunt turned into LEH instead of the situation it is in now. Oh, except, your organization wants to do away with LEH, not use it as a tool. This hunt is now designed to fail, which will result in a complete closure of the hunt.

This is the kind of uncalled for, arrogant and rude commentary which the GOABC members and fans,such as this character, seem to think will convince the public at large just how wonderful the GOs and their "industry" is, well, I gotta say that when I read crap like this, I sure see who the enemy is and it ain't the BCWF or F-D.

[Whisky Creek]

I wondered how long it would take the posse to show up Devil Bear. Thanks for the valued opinion.
Canuck Shooter: I sent you a couple of emails with letters to lay out the history as I know it. I don't know how to post them here.

[Mr. Dean]

In my limited knowledge on the QC issue, I feel everyone involved failed on this one.


Naive Resident Hunters that saw the need/calls for involvement, yet did nothing.
GOABC for not getting (more) actively involved.
The current BC Government for ignoring the AP to work as outlined and using our resource to further their own interests.
Area Natives for basically 'selling out'.
The GO for not giving a damn.

I disagree about the hunt being better off it were on LEH; I feel that that precedent would've had extreme ramifications.
So what do we do now??? I guess we use it as a tool in knowing what can happen if left in the hands of others.

[Whisky Creek]

Devil Bear,

I wouldn't say that this "character" (myself) is so much of a GOABC fan as he is a non-fan of the BCWF due to its ineffectiveness at representing my interests as a hunter. The reasons for its ineffectiveness have been pointed out and are fairly clear.

[Mr. Dean]

FisherDud,
[QUOTE]....but then they turn around and fight them the next day on every other issue

So IYO, GOABC should be the final say in the decision making of our resource and that the Fed (us/we/Resident Hunters) should turn turtle on issues that affect it (our resource), and effectively not even exist?

That is so WHACKED on SO many levels.

[GoatGuy]

Seems the squawkers are out in full force - best to ignore them and stick on topic for this stuff.

A couple of the posters have correctly pointed out that your MLA is who makes decisions on your behalf. If you don't like the decisions they are making let them know. Walk into their office, tell them what's going on, tell them how important it is to you and tell them this is an issue you will vote on. Have all your hunting buddies do the same. You will drive change.

The easy part is talking about it, the hard part is doing it. There is no other 'group' in BC which has the potential to have as much influence on the future of BC as hunters and anglers.

[MattW]

That is exactly what needs to be done. The problem is though that hunters are very divided among themselves. If a law is made that negatively impacts gun hunters the archers will say, "I am not a gun hunter this does not affect me." and the other way around. If hunters among themselves are so divided how can they begin to understand the importance of uniting with other non-hunting interest groups. The antis know that and take full advantage of it.

We see the same in the animal husbandry. Farmers, Zoos, Circuses, Rodeo and many others rather struggle on their own against the animal rights rather than join forces. If hunters alone would unite and get proactive the antis wouldn't have a chance. This has been proven several times south of the border in the few rare occasions where hunters of all interests joined and spoke up as one voice.

Devilbear is wrong, pro-activism does work. Whenever a large number of people get up and speak out as a united voice the government WILL take note. This is why animal rights, a very small but very vocal minority, are so successful. The various animal rights, anti hunting and environmental organizations may not see eye to eye on many issues but when it comes to lobbying against hunting or animal husbandry they join forces, hunters do not and that is the probelm.
The thing is that they lie and then present it as fact, it's sensational and they use advertising and the ideas make it into schools and become accepted fact over time. The only thing sensational about our side of the argument is how mundane it is compared to what's being fed to the public by the antis.
On the farming side, we have a large number of people who now accept as fact that we mistreat our animals and pump them full of hormones and steroids, it's totally untrue but I can tell people that and lay out a very logical set of reasons why and they won't believe me. In hunting we have had 25+ years of the people being told that grizzly bears are endangered etc, we can have Val Geist lay it out how they are not but he can't compete with 25 years of David Suzuki. What if we bought are own hour of TV? We can call it "The True Nature of Things". Maybe with 10 years of that we can shift thinking back on to reality. As it sits right now if the antis decide to make one of their causes an election issue they have the peoples minds more than we do and can deliver the votes, at least in the urban ridings.

[MattW]

Seems the squawkers are out in full force - best to ignore them and stick on topic for this stuff.

A couple of the posters have correctly pointed out that your MLA is who makes decisions on your behalf. If you don't like the decisions they are making let them know. Walk into their office, tell them what's going on, tell them how important it is to you and tell them this is an issue you will vote on. Have all your hunting buddies do the same. You will drive change.

The easy part is talking about it, the hard part is doing it. There is no other 'group' in BC which has the potential to have as much influence on the future of BC as hunters and anglers.
There are politicians out there that are on our side. I know my MP Ed Fast is an avid hunter, don't know about my MLA Mike DeJong though, should talk to him some time.

[Mr. Dean]

There are politicians out there that are on our side. I know my MP Ed Fast is an avid hunter, don't know about my MLA Mike DeJong though, should talk to him some time.


MP's are federal and have zippy to do with our hunting interests. Ya need to get intimate w/ your provincial MLA...

[Devilbear]

Adrian Dix, an effective and nationalistic MLA IS my riding's current occupant and I WILL be talking to him, soon, no question. Dix has already spoken as leader of the NDP against the travesty of raw log exports and I think that he will not be overly friendly to the GOs and their chicanery......better the devil you know and all that...........

[GoatGuy]

There are politicians out there that are on our side. I know my MP Ed Fast is an avid hunter, don't know about my MLA Mike DeJong though, should talk to him some time.

Politicians will typically side with the squeeky wheel. At the end of the day they want to create jobs, find money and get elected - they don't like bad press. As hunters and anglers we can show them money which creates jobs - we can also show the votes.

The trick is they (politicians) need to know about us and how important this is to us. There are thousands of competing interests and often 'we' take our ability hunt and fish for granted, with the belief that politicians will take care of us. That isn't the case.

While we sit back there are other groups with members in lobbying their local MLA making requests and demands - often these groups are comprised of less than 1000 people and they are successful. With 100,000+ active conservationists talking to their MLA the sky's the limit.

[MattW]

MP's are federal and have zippy to do with our hunting interests. Ya need to get intimate w/ your provincial MLA...
I know that, but the feds have everything do with our gun owning interests.

[Fisher-Dude]

FisherDud,

I don't give a $hiT about your stats from the past, it is a moot point in this case now. The question or statement was, "You can bet the GO gets more than 4 bears", or something to that effect. Why don't you tell him how many bears the GO actually gets now, or if there is a GO operating there now, or how your almighty organization was able to stop this from happening...... or didn't. Yeah, I agree that they did try to stop it with the letter campaign etc starting in 2008, I have the letters, but the fact is they obviously didn't succeed. Maybe we shouldn't put all of our eggs in one basket. Maybe the basket has a whole bunch of holes in it.... Money and membership numbers won't fix that. Perhaps you should spend more energy focused on preventing these kind of things from happening and less on the "who gets what"... If there is nothing to get, then it won't matter, will it? Yes I know that your organization did write letters to the Premier and the MOE stating that they were working with BC Trappers and GOABC and were "all in agreement and in staunch opposition" to this "4 bears" hunt, but then they turn around and fight them the next day on every other issue. Fair weather friends, so to speak. So really, how much credibility does the BC Wildlife Coalition have, and how much clout does it carry with gov't at the current time? Likely not much if they aren't in solidarity 99% of the time.

My prediction now is that this black bear hunt will be closed within a couple years unless gov't is somehow forced to reconsider. The anti's who succeeded here, will be screaming "over harvest" when the MOE doesn't close the hunt quick enough after the 4 bears are killed, and they will pressure MOE to shut down the hunt because they can't control it. It would have been better to have this hunt turned into LEH instead of the situation it is in now. Oh, except, your organization wants to do away with LEH, not use it as a tool. This hunt is now designed to fail, which will result in a complete closure of the hunt.


What did YOU do about it?

[yamadirt 426]

Here are a few thoughts I had.

Sending out flyers that promote hunting and conservation in all the local papers. Talking about resident priority. Standing outside pro hunting stores handing out promotional hunting/fishing literature. The kind of store one would not expect to be given the info at.

Trying to get the CORE program available to students in highschool.

Promoting the CORE as a tool of conservation where non hunters can learn about carring capacity ect... and not just for a hunter #. I know I learned alot and felt that even as a nonhunter I could use the info.

Info should be available in rec centers all over BC.

Even door knocking. I know it sucks but we should work the front lines. Its sure to get noticed and brought about in the papers.

Just a few thoughts outside the box

[steel_ram]

Maybe we should blockade a highway? Just an info blockade.

[Whisky Creek]

What did YOU do about it?

At the time, I pulled the wool up over my eyes and blindly followed the rest of the sheep entrusting my future as a resident hunter to your group.... Luckily, at some point not too long after that time I finally realized that by following that flock I was putting my eggs in a broken basket with far too many holes in it........ I keep hoping that those holes will get patched up, but all the news of recent seems to be to the contrary.:icon_frow

[Jelvis]

Ted Nugent Dog eat Dog. You know what ten percent of people hunt or agree hunting has roots and the other 90 don't.
On here your preaching to the choir and still have one irritating the other over and over, because of emotion overload and lacking a little self control but hey it's not for real it's fueled by pride and jealousy.
Turning green with envy when another group has some control and power and dares to step up on the stage platform.
It's time to turn it on to save what ever you see as harming your hunting rights and I applaud you for your personal stand what ever that is?
Jel .. I'm in the mix of users also and my brothers ..

[Whisky Creek]

http://www.pacificwild.org/site/press/1301689829.html

These Anti's are organized and funded........ More BS from the Suzukis to chew on....

[Fisher-Dude]

At the time, I pulled the wool up over my eyes and blindly followed the rest of the sheep entrusting my future as a resident hunter to your group.... Luckily, at some point not too long after that time I finally realized that by following that flock I was putting my eggs in a broken basket with far too many holes in it........ I keep hoping that those holes will get patched up, but all the news of recent seems to be to the contrary.:icon_frow

So you did nothing and hoped someone would wipe your ass for you.

How typical that the loudest bitchers don't do a thing about it themselves. It's safer that way - you'll always have something to bitch about when talking about others' work on your behalf, and no one will ever bitch at you.

[MattW]

On the QCI bear hunt issue it seems obvious that the anti-hunters were involved, do we know exactly how. It looks like officially anyway the request to close the bear hunting came from the First Nations. (never mind, did a search and found it)

[fearless]

On the QCI bear hunt issue it seems obvious that the anti-hunters were involved, do we know exactly how. It looks like officially anyway the request to close the bear hunting came from the First Nations.

This is true but it was the anties that went to the FN'S for support because they have more pull (thank our gov.) Guys it does'nt help us hunters when we've got guys wanting to strap horns to our trucks and drive down main st. vancouver or hold threads on do you keep your bear meat . Opinons are great but its not helping us hunters.

[behemoth]

I thought there was a law that if you don't use your GO territory it gets forfeited? Does this not apply here?

[huntwriter]

The thing is that they lie and then present it as fact, it's sensational and they use advertising and the ideas make it into schools and become accepted fact over time. The only thing sensational about our side of the argument is how mundane it is compared to what's being fed to the public by the antis.
On the farming side, we have a large number of people who now accept as fact that we mistreat our animals and pump them full of hormones and steroids, it's totally untrue but I can tell people that and lay out a very logical set of reasons why and they won't believe me. In hunting we have had 25+ years of the people being told that grizzly bears are endangered etc, we can have Val Geist lay it out how they are not but he can't compete with 25 years of David Suzuki. What if we bought are own hour of TV? We can call it "The True Nature of Things". Maybe with 10 years of that we can shift thinking back on to reality. As it sits right now if the antis decide to make one of their causes an election issue they have the peoples minds more than we do and can deliver the votes, at least in the urban ridings.

That should be even more reason to take action. If I would go around your neighborhood and tell people that you're a drunk that beats on the wife and children would you just sit there and take it? Of course not!

I fight animal rights for over 20 years and to do that I've joined organizations that have nothing to do with hunting but they serve my purpose, and we get things done. It is depressing at times how many people make excuses not to get involved. "I don't care what antis do I just want to hunt.", "Letters will not change a single thing.", "I do not want to end up on some government list.", "Antis are just a bunch of idiots, I don't pay any attention to them.", and so the list of could go on for ever.

It is because of the fact that animal rights play the "emotional" card that we can win if we stand up and stick together and present facts. If I can play animal right in a single TV show into a corner with facts and turn them into the laughing stock then imagine what 85,000 hunters in BC could do. The times to fight animal rights has never been better then now. Animal rights lose public support. For the first time in over 20 years PeTA, HSUS and others like it claim to loose members and public opinion is not as favorable as it used to be. Newspapers that wouldn't print my articles against the animal rights agenda in the past have asked me in the last two years to submit such articles. In Germany a large monthly magazine that had a reputation of being animal rights friendly has contacted me with a query to provide them with information against animal rights, including FBI files that I have in my possession and all other information I've collected over many years about animal rights crime. The article was a big hit with their readers and PeTA (German Branch) is fuming.

[Devilbear]

The comments about Dr. Suzuki and Dr.Geist are rather interesting and well-chosen as examples of what has been happening here in BC-Canada. I met both of these eminent scientists many years ago, instantly disliked Suzuki and told him so on a couple of occasions in the successive years I attended seminars in my bio classes which he spoke at and we also drank beer with him at "The High Arrow Arms", the then Selkirk College-Castlegar student's watering hole.

I instantly warmed to and liked Val Geist, I have seen posts here deriding his supposed ...Teutonic arrogance..., but, with most of his books on my shelves for many years and well read as credible sources for REAL expertise on divers quadrupeds of BC-Alberta and in speaking with him at the former Notre Dame University of Nelson, BC, I found him very approachable and friendly, actually rather humble. He is a remarkable man, one of the bio-scientists for whom I have the greatest respect due to his solo stints in the northern BC and he is an accomplished hunter.

So, while I certainly respect the intellectual capacities and scholastic attainments of each of these men, I find Val Geist far more credible on issues pertaining to wildlife conservation-management and it's legitimate place in our traditional cultural heritage than I do David Suzuki's constant self-aggrandisement and rather sketchy opinions based on what seems trendy and cool at any given time.

I recall Suzuki trying to mock me at a gathering on the back lawn of Selkirk because I was so obviously "white" and "English" (which I am not, btw) and was more concerned circa 1970-'71 with environmental issues rather than, boo hoo hoo, the just terrible "racism" in Canada. I offered to kick his ass and he soon shut his yap, and, yeppers, I STILL am concerned about environmental matters and see the "racism" nonsense for exactly the con-game that it is.

Hunting, will be kept viable here IF we begin to stand tall for OUR traditions and OUR culture and fight back against the advancing spread of internationalism and "multiculturalism" and using electronic media will do a great deal to assist in that effort. One good TV broadcast will influence politicians far more than floods of e-mails and even form letters....a former Bill Bennett-era cabinet minister from an old BC family told me that over twenty years ago, when he and I were discussing pioneer days in Vancity and how things had and were changing here.

He is a hunter and I tend to agree with him and while I do and have written articles for decades, I think that TV can do more for us, if we use it correctly.....the antis certainly have done, as witness Suzuki's often distorted programmes.

As an aside, did anyone else notice the "Rona" ad that claims that "old growth" Douglas Fir is an "endangered species" in Canada??? MOST people will automatically believe this drivel and THAT is the crux of our problem.

[MattW]

The comments about Dr. Suzuki and Dr.Geist are rather interesting and well-chosen as examples of what has been happening here in BC-Canada. I met both of these eminent scientists many years ago, instantly disliked Suzuki and told him so on a couple of occasions in the successive years I attended seminars in my bio classes which he spoke at and we also drank beer with him at "The High Arrow Arms", the then Selkirk College-Castlegar student's watering hole.

I instantly warmed to and liked Val Geist, I have seen posts here deriding his supposed ...Teutonic arrogance..., but, with most of his books on my shelves for many years and well read as credible sources for REAL expertise on divers quadrupeds of BC-Alberta and in speaking with him at the former Notre Dame University of Nelson, BC, I found him very approachable and friendly, actually rather humble. He is a remarkable man, one of the bio-scientists for whom I have the greatest respect due to his solo stints in the northern BC and he is an accomplished hunter.

So, while I certainly respect the intellectual capacities and scholastic attainments of each of these men, I find Val Geist far more credible on issues pertaining to wildlife conservation-management and it's legitimate place in our traditional cultural heritage than I do David Suzuki's constant self-aggrandisement and rather sketchy opinions based on what seems trendy and cool at any given time.

I recall Suzuki trying to mock me at a gathering on the back lawn of Selkirk because I was so obviously "white" and "English" (which I am not, btw) and was more concerned circa 1970-'71 with environmental issues rather than, boo hoo hoo, the just terrible "racism" in Canada. I offered to kick his ass and he soon shut his yap, and, yeppers, I STILL am concerned about environmental matters and see the "racism" nonsense for exactly the con-game that it is.

Hunting, will be kept viable here IF we begin to stand tall for OUR traditions and OUR culture and fight back against the advancing spread of internationalism and "multiculturalism" and using electronic media will do a great deal to assist in that effort. One good TV broadcast will influence politicians far more than floods of e-mails and even form letters....a former Bill Bennett-era cabinet minister from an old BC family told me that over twenty years ago, when he and I were discussing pioneer days in Vancity and how things had and were changing here.

He is a hunter and I tend to agree with him and while I do and have written articles for decades, I think that TV can do more for us, if we use it correctly.....the antis certainly have done, as witness Suzuki's often distorted programmes.

As an aside, did anyone else notice the "Rona" ad that claims that "old growth" Douglas Fir is an "endangered species" in Canada??? MOST people will automatically believe this drivel and THAT is the crux of our problem.
Have you seen those salmon farming ads? The "what if we believed everything we heard the way we do about salmon farming" ones? I wonder if we (BCWF) could do something like that?

[Whisky Creek]

So you did nothing and hoped someone would wipe your ass for you.

How typical that the loudest bitchers don't do a thing about it themselves. It's safer that way - you'll always have something to bitch about when talking about others' work on your behalf, and no one will ever bitch at you.

Fisher Dud,
Refer to my signature line. If you missed the analogy in my post, then you're in that group.

[bigwhiteys]

Have you seen those salmon farming ads? The "what if we believed everything we heard the way we do about salmon farming" ones? I wonder if we (BCWF) could do something like that?
Right... The BCWF and RHAPF blew through $18,000 something dollars on their print ads and got zip, zilch, nada, nothing as a tangible return... Would love to see how much new donations and memberships that creative generated! I am certainly not knocking the efforts of volunteers but if you want to compete with professionals???!?!?! Volunteer wages and benefits usually don't cut it, we need LEADERSHIP & MONEY. Good leadership will take care of the rest.

Carl

[GoatGuy]

What did YOU do about it?

End up wasting 95% of your time on 5% of the people who won't do anything other than complain and point fingers.

Best just to ignore him.

[MattW]

That should be even more reason to take action. If I would go around your neighborhood and tell people that you're a drunk that beats on the wife and children would you just sit there and take it? Of course not!

I fight animal rights for over 20 years and to do that I've joined organizations that have nothing to do with hunting but they serve my purpose, and we get things done. It is depressing at times how many people make excuses not to get involved. "I don't care what antis do I just want to hunt.", "Letters will not change a single thing.", "I do not want to end up on some government list.", "Antis are just a bunch of idiots, I don't pay any attention to them.", and so the list of could go on for ever.

It is because of the fact that animal rights play the "emotional" card that we can win if we stand up and stick together and present facts. If I can play animal right in a single TV show into a corner with facts and turn them into the laughing stock then imagine what 85,000 hunters in BC could do. The times to fight animal rights has never been better then now. Animal rights lose public support. For the first time in over 20 years PeTA, HSUS and others like it claim to loose members and public opinion is not as favorable as it used to be. Newspapers that wouldn't print my articles against the animal rights agenda in the past have asked me in the last two years to submit such articles. In Germany a large monthly magazine that had a reputation of being animal rights friendly has contacted me with a query to provide them with information against animal rights, including FBI files that I have in my possession and all other information I've collected over many years about animal rights crime. The article was a big hit with their readers and PeTA (German Branch) is fuming.
For sure it is more reason to take action. Some very interesting points you have here, I didn't realize at all that public opinion was moving away from animal rights groups. Have you heard of their latest tactic in the States? They outlined it at an ag meeting, they are trying to push the vegetarian/animal rights agenda through the church as "Christian", of course it has no basis in scripture and I doubt that many pastors will run with it but it shows what they will try.

[MattW]

Right... The BCWF and RHAPF blew through $18,000 something dollars on their print ads and got zip, zilch, nada, nothing as a tangible return... Would love to see how much new donations and memberships that creative generated! I am certainly not knocking the efforts of volunteers but if you want to compete with professionals???!?!?! Volunteer wages and benefits usually don't cut it, we need LEADERSHIP & MONEY. Good leadership will take care of the rest.

Carl

The problem with print is it reaches a relatively narrow audience, TV or a top radio station would go a lot further. Broadcast a web address where we address some of the misinformation and the real facts.

[Jelvis]

How many barber shops do you see wild life trophy mounts on the wall or cougar rugs etc.
Why? Used to be popular up to the 70's then people would criticize you for having animals on the walls for the world to see.
Jel .. Trophy heads and rugs taken out to please customer's wish.
..........Now a disc for sports channels and what not .. times change 4 more business more money.

[Fishnutz]

I thought there was a law that if you don't use your GO territory it gets forfeited? Does this not apply here?

Non-use of guiding territory

59.1 (1) On application by the holder of a guiding territory certificate who does not intend to consent to guiding in a year in the guiding territory described in the guiding territory certificate, the regional manager may give permission for the temporary or partial discontinuance of the use of that guiding territory for guiding.
(2) If, in the opinion of the regional manager, there is no guiding in a year in a guiding territory described in a guiding territory certificate,
(a) the regional manager may review the operation of the holder of the guiding territory certificate, and
(b) after affording the holder an opportunity to be heard, the regional manager may suspend, cancel or refuse to renew the guiding territory certificate.

I don't see how these groups can hold the guiding territory certificate if they are not in fact guiding.

[huntwriter]

For sure it is more reason to take action. Some very interesting points you have here, I didn't realize at all that public opinion was moving away from animal rights groups. Have you heard of their latest tactic in the States? They outlined it at an ag meeting, they are trying to push the vegetarian/animal rights agenda through the church as "Christian", of course it has no basis in scripture and I doubt that many pastors will run with it but it shows what they will try.

Animal rights constantly reinvent themselves because the movement has nothing to do with animal welfare, in fact that is the furthest thing on their mind. The animal rights movement is all about making money, and lots of it. PeTA, HSUS and Co. spend less than 02.% of their annual income on animal welfare concerns, in fact they turn requests to participate in animal welfare and conservation down.

Since animal rights reinvent themselves all the time they align with whoever they think would be beneficial to further their agenda. They also aligned themselves with Neo-Nazi organizations in some countries and Christian churches in others. It's a sign of how desperate they are getting to gain new members. In Kansas the governor has publicly warned animal rights that he will not give any orders to the police anymore to protect animal rights on demonstrations form angry farmers, circus people, zoo staff or rodeo people who regularly get protested by animal rights. "I can understand that people get angry with animal rights." he said.

[huntwriter]

Here is another fact to prove the people who say hunter activism doesn't work wrong. In America the "Hunter Harassment Act", that specifically forbids the interference of animal rights with the legal taking of animals by hunters (scaring game away, blocking access roads, protesting near hunting areas and so on) under penalty of up to five years imprisonment came about through direct hunter input. A few years later Canada adopted that same law from America. Although Canadian hunters didn't demand that law it came about in America because thousands of hunters were pissed off enough to stand up and demand from the American government a law that protects them against animal rights.

Never say activism or your letter doesn't count. It does count.

[Whisky Creek]

End up wasting 95% of your time on 5% of the people who won't do anything other than complain and point fingers.

Best just to ignore him.

Well the almighty GG has spoken. I reckon it is time to re-bury your heads in the sand, and pat each other on the back some more.

[limit time]

QCI Bear Season is basically eliminated now:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/news/

Here is another area on the way out (scroll down):

http://www.raincoast.org/projects/grizzly-bears/acquisitions/ (http://www.raincoast.org/projects/grizzly-bears/acquisitions/)

While the BCWF and GOABC squabble over quota and resident priority (so much for AAH), backroom deals between First Nations and the Anti's are being cooked up and our hunting rights are being pissed away by the BC Liberals........

It may be "just" black bears "somewhere else" right now, but it's coming to an area near you, just wait and see!

It's time to write and/or call your MLA and remind them it's nearly election time!!!!


So...stupid question...but...why cant the BCWF purchase this land??

[Caribou_lou]

Just finished reading the thread.

So Residents are at 4 bears... Anyone have a clue how many the outfitters area has? And will they be turned over to the residents if those tags aren't being used?

[Whisky Creek]

Limit Time,

Good question. You would think that they could easily get $10 bucks from each of their 38,000 members, if they asked, to purchase the area and secure resident opportunity forever in this piece of turf, eh? Money well spent????

[MattW]

Limit Time,

Good question. You would think that they could easily get $10 bucks from each of their 38,000 members, if they asked, to purchase the area and secure resident opportunity forever in this piece of turf, eh? Money well spent????

Is that the kind of money it went for?

[Whisky Creek]

The area that LimitTime is providing the link for, reads that the area operator appears to have an agreement to purchase in place from the Raincoast Conservation Foundation for $320,000. (This doesn't include their BS operating costs that they are also asking for money for.) It is the coastal area to the north of the GO area they already bought in 2005. "Spirit Bear" hunting tenure as they call it..... Now they don't want people killing black bears "that carry the recessive gene that causes the white coat" of the spirit bear, and they also claim they want to protect the "unique rainforest wolves".....

Sad thing is, people give these lunatics money for it.....

[fearless]

The haida tried to buy this area off the outfitter a few years ago outfitter wanted alot of money. Only 4 tags a yr. now might get it cheap lol.

[GoatGuy]

Here is another fact to prove the people who say hunter activism doesn't work wrong. In America the "Hunter Harassment Act", that specifically forbids the interference of animal rights with the legal taking of animals by hunters (scaring game away, blocking access roads, protesting near hunting areas and so on) under penalty of up to five years imprisonment came about through direct hunter input. A few years later Canada adopted that same law from America. Although Canadian hunters didn't demand that law it came about in America because thousands of hunters were pissed off enough to stand up and demand from the American government a law that protects them against animal rights.


The law on interfering with a legal hunt was instituted in BC after the Collingwoods handed out a high country tuneup to the wing nuts in Spatsizi. There was nothing in place at the time and it was a result of the conflict.

[GoatGuy]

Just finished reading the thread.

So Residents are at 4 bears... Anyone have a clue how many the outfitters area has? And will they be turned over to the residents if those tags aren't being used?

The outfitter portion will not be used. This deal was originally setup as part of the negotiation with Jeff Plant working in the ILMB. The deal was if FN are able to buy the outfitter territory the residents would be limited to 4 bears. The ability to hunt was negotiated away as part of the 'bigger picture'.

[kgriz]

I have not followed this to the letter but I'm assuming a huge part of this even being able to happen is the FN component?
I say this because if the gov't allocates an area for resource use, say a guiding area, it is usually intended for that reason, and if the new tenant does not intend to use it that way, then it is either not available for them to purchase or is taken away after evidence of
non-use. This is the case for trapping areas ( although that rule gets pushed ), and also the reason why all of our timber rights have not been purchased by interest groups....This being said the obvious outlier here is the FN....If that is the case, I would suggest that the antis have just jumped on that bandwagon to shoot through that government loophole like many others have figured out.

[GoatGuy]

I have not followed this to the letter but I'm assuming a huge part of this even being able to happen is the FN component?
I say this because if the gov't allocates an area for resource use, say a guiding area, it is usually intended for that reason, and if the new tenant does not intend to use it that way, then it is either not available for them to purchase or is taken away after evidence of
non-use. This is the case for trapping areas ( although that rule gets pushed ), and also the reason why all of our timber rights have not been purchased by interest groups....This being said the obvious outlier here is the FN....If that is the case, I would suggest that the antis have just jumped on that bandwagon to shoot through that government loophole like many others have figured out.

You got 'er.

[kgriz]

If this is the case..good luck fighting it...so many groups including the gov't, big oil, etc. have jumped on the affirmative action bus, that there is very little chance of fighting that without looking like a racist a-hole to the general public....my advice would be to all new hunters.....get along with FN as the gov't is going to let them govern the hunting resource sooner or later.....
I know that I've dropped some spring bear off to the odd elder to "grease the wheels" so to speak.

[Devilbear]

The law on interfering with a legal hunt was instituted in BC after the Collingwoods handed out a high country tuneup to the wing nuts in Spatsizi. There was nothing in place at the time and it was a result of the conflict.

That brutal physical attack upon a member of the public by one of the Collingwoods, did FAR MORE to advance the cause of the serious "antis" than almost anything else I can think of. I was working in northern BC for the Forest Service in that time-period and also very active in environmental issues, primarily saving certain outstanding Kootenay wilderness areas from total devastation by landraping loggers and miners. I was simply appalled by what happened and many BC people I knew then were as horrified as I was and became very anti-hunting as a result.

The Collingwoods now are totally against any mere residents hunting in "their" concession and that includes Spatsizi Wilderness Park, which we BC people own and should not be restricted from using. Funny, how these GOs are so anti resident in "their" areas and think they have some "right" to "tune up" another BC person. This is one more example of why we need to eliminate GOs and save BC for BCers and other Canadians.

[325 wsm]

Just finished reading the thread.

So Residents are at 4 bears... Anyone have a clue how many the outfitters area has? And will they be turned over to the residents if those tags aren't being used?

No outfitter quota. Annual allowable harvest was somewhere around 450 bears a year so the 40 or so a year the outfitter were taking were not a conservation concern.

[325 wsm]

Is that the kind of money it went for?

10,000 + sq. ft. lodge on almost 40 acres of beach/riverfront property on the Tlell river plus 2 outfitting concessions for the largest black bears in the world ?

[325 wsm]

Limit Time,

Good question. You would think that they could easily get $10 bucks from each of their 38,000 members, if they asked, to purchase the area and secure resident opportunity forever in this piece of turf, eh? Money well spent????

Add another zero to that 10 and your in the ballpark.

[kgriz]

Worried about reducing the gene pool for the white spirit bear...hmmmm
Anybody else happen to know who shot gimpy the partially lame "spirit bear" near Terrace?
There's some real irony to that story.....

[325 wsm]

From what I understand there are still about 6 outfitters along the coast who will be targeted next by this same process as they have been involved with the same type of negotiations.

[huntwriter]

The law on interfering with a legal hunt was instituted in BC after the Collingwoods handed out a high country tuneup to the wing nuts in Spatsizi. There was nothing in place at the time and it was a result of the conflict.

That is true but the law we have here is an almost word for word copy from the American law. The American hunter harassment law came not about because the government felt that the hunters needed special protection from the antis but because hunters in the thousands got up and demanded that the government do something about these terrorists, I was one of these hunters that got involved (living in Illinois at the time). The point in my post was that when hunters unite on an issue and become proactive the government WILL pay attention.

[Whisky Creek]

[QUOTE=Devilbear;903651]That brutal physical attack upon a member of the public by one of the Collingwoods, did FAR MORE to advance the cause of the serious "antis" than almost anything else I can think of. I was working in northern BC for the Forest Service in that time-period and also very active in environmental issues, primarily saving certain outstanding Kootenay wilderness areas from total devastation by landraping loggers and miners. I was simply appalled by what happened and many BC people I knew then were as horrified as I was and became very anti-hunting as a result.[QUOTE]

DevilBear,

Are you sure you don't work for RainForest or Greenpeace???? Got your dues all paid up????
You don't have a clue here and are only spewing fear-mongering $hit for the purpose of furthering your anti-guide rant.......
Before you open your trap, why don't you call Reg, or maybe Tom (who was actually there during the "tune-up"), and do a bit of research.
"I was appalled.....horrified......" Oh cripes..... boo-hoo!!! Man or mouse? You sound like one of the leaf-lickers. Man up a bit and grow a pair, would ya? If a few more "tune-ups" were to happen once and a while, common sense might become a little more prevalent in society once again. You are supposed to be a hunter and here you basically condone this bullshit interference by Greenpeace with a legal hunt???? Then you get "appalled and horrified" when friends of the people being interferred with make these idiots accountable for it???
Then you hop over on the other foot and screech about your "right to hunt" and whine when somebody tries to take it from you..... What a raving hypocrite!
As far as this doing "far more to advance the cause of the serious anti's than almost anything else" you "can think of", you are wrong.
This "tune-up" which caused Greenpeace to leave Spatsizi and focus their efforts elsewhere likely is the sole reason that there is still any hunting allowed in Spatsizi. Do you think they would have packed up and left if they managed to shut down Collingwoods? Or do you think that the resident hunt would have been next? Then, with that precidence having been set, where we are now with the QCI issue would have likely started occuring 25 years ago, AND, they would be getting hunts shut down for free, instead of having to fundraise for it!

As far as your slanderous statement that "Collingwoods are against any mere residents hunting in Spatsizi", you are a liar. Collingwoods have been very generous to accomodate residents in the park when they could, with information, tips, packing, gear, emergency situations etc.... Have you personally ever had a bad experience with them, or are you just beaking off behind someone's back again?
Seems to be pretty common place with your sort. Maybe you should take the time to meet Reg, Ray or the rest of the family sometime and see what kind of people they actually are. You might be surprised. A word of advice though, if you want to be treated fairly and accomodating by them, you'll need to get off of your high horse............
What a bunch of bull$hit puke...

[Whisky Creek]

Add another zero to that 10 and your in the ballpark.
I was referring to Limit Time's link that he provided. It was for the area that they are currently going after. I do not know what the price tag on the QCI areas was at.

[Weatherby Fan]

I was referring to Limit Time's link that he provided. It was for the area that they are currently going after. I do not know what the price tag on the QCI areas was at.

I should be tied up in Skidegate by 15:00 today so will ask around and see what the locals have to say about the issue !

[huntwriter]

[QUOTE=Devilbear;903651]That brutal physical attack upon a member of the public by one of the Collingwoods, did FAR MORE to advance the cause of the serious "antis" than almost anything else I can think of. I was working in northern BC for the Forest Service in that time-period and also very active in environmental issues, primarily saving certain outstanding Kootenay wilderness areas from total devastation by landraping loggers and miners. I was simply appalled by what happened and many BC people I knew then were as horrified as I was and became very anti-hunting as a result.[QUOTE]

DevilBear,

Are you sure you don't work for RainForest or Greenpeace???? Got your dues all paid up????
You don't have a clue here and are only spewing fear-mongering $hit for the purpose of furthering your anti-guide rant.......
Before you open your trap, why don't you call Reg, or maybe Tom (who was actually there during the "tune-up"), and do a bit of research.
"I was appalled.....horrified......" Oh cripes..... boo-hoo!!! Man or mouse? You sound like one of the leaf-lickers. Man up a bit and grow a pair, would ya? If a few more "tune-ups" were to happen once and a while, common sense might become a little more prevalent in society once again. You are supposed to be a hunter and here you basically condone this bullshit interference by Greenpeace with a legal hunt???? Then you get "appalled and horrified" when friends of the people being interferred with make these idiots accountable for it???
Then you hop over on the other foot and screech about your "right to hunt" and whine when somebody tries to take it from you..... What a raving hypocrite!
As far as this doing "far more to advance the cause of the serious anti's than almost anything else" you "can think of", you are wrong.
This "tune-up" which caused Greenpeace to leave Spatsizi and focus their efforts elsewhere likely is the sole reason that there is still any hunting allowed in Spatsizi. Do you think they would have packed up and left if they managed to shut down Collingwoods? Or do you think that the resident hunt would have been next? Then, with that precidence having been set, where we are now with the QCI issue would have likely started occuring 25 years ago, AND, they would be getting hunts shut down for free, instead of having to fundraise for it!

As far as your slanderous statement that "Collingwoods are against any mere residents hunting in Spatsizi", you are a liar. Collingwoods have been very generous to accomodate residents in the park when they could, with information, tips, packing, gear, emergency situations etc.... Have you personally ever had a bad experience with them, or are you just beaking off behind someone's back again?
Seems to be pretty common place with your sort. Maybe you should take the time to meet Reg, Ray or the rest of the family sometime and see what kind of people they actually are. You might be surprised. A word of advice though, if you want to be treated fairly and accomodating by them, you'll need to get off of your high horse............
What a bunch of bull$hit puke...Well said! Watch out. He will come back to criticize your spelling, grammar and ask you if you're an immigrant and then proceed to lecture you on his ancestral pedigree. :) :)

[Jelvis]

If you don't know the people up close and personal or you never met them, you can't say anything about their personal intentions either.
Only what you read in the media which is still ok to have the media they are doing a great deal of interviews and investigating intent and other things in the community news.
I think we should actually know or have met someone b4 talking like you know them. Friends are someone you talk with not about in everyday life.
I think Whisky has a right to explain his facts and figures and his opinion from his frame of reference.
I see internet wars on a great hunting site and realize we need to talk about each and every user's position as long as it's factual and doable and more thinking then just jousting emotional craziness at each hunter, but that's all part of us as humans and hunters
Jel .. Your all ok in my books .. and lot's of others cuz your hunter's first.

[Devilbear]

One of my closest friends, who, btw, knows you, and has worked and spent time in the area for over twenty years, often has lunch with the Collingwoods in Smithers and sometimes employs some of the guides who work for them. He mentioned this to me just 2-3 weeks ago and I have every confidence in his integrity and knowledge of that region. He has repeatedly asked me to work for him there due to my long experience working in the wilderness all over BC and much of Alberta and my ability to live alone in the most remote regions of both provinces without much support.

He also used to fly "rotary wing", but, has gone on to other business ventures and very successfully and I would enjoy working with him as we get along very well and work like "clockwork" together. In fact, I am just loading his large trailer with Doug Fir blocks that I hand split with my 20 lb. maul, 10 lb. sledge and "Wood Grenades" last summer, these from a massive tree that my neighbour had cut down and I cut up for him as he is an Asian, of similar ancestry to my good friend and not really skilled in cutting big wood. This is very good exercise and keeps one fit, calm and capable of laughing at life's oddities.

Gatehouse does not want me to engage in rejoinders of an appropriate kind with you, the butcher or the guy from Arizona and I have no intention of being goaded into banishment by your infantile comments. So, whatever, cheer up and have a nice Easter! Laffin' here.

[Whisky Creek]

Devilbear,

Not meaning any disrespect to Jelvis or his clever riddles; but seriously, I am having more difficulty understanding your point here, than I do when reading Jelvis' posts.
What????? So...... ???? Lot's of people know me.... Lots of people have lunch, some have it with a Collingwood....... Lots of people fly helicopters..... Lots of people like Doug and douglas fir..... Not sure about the asian part or why an asian person can't be skilled in cutting big wood......and lastly, I know a few butchers but nobody from Arizona.
So, sorry man. You lost me on this one?????????????

If you got something to say, or some point to make, then say it or make it. You don't normally seem to be worried about banishment in any of your posts on here or numerous other forums, (many of which you have been banned) but, if you are worried about being banished like morning Dewey, correction, I mean, like morning dew off of sunlit grass, then send me a PM, email or phone call, and we can get it figured out that way. Your friend, who knows me, should be able to provide you with my contact details if you need them.

Lastly, I am cheerful and having a good Easter, thanks. The Easter bunny brought some eggs for the kids but if I see him around again in the next little while, there will be snares put out. I hate how he continuously spews out little pellets of useless $hit......

[StoneChaser]

Wow.....I haven't checked in for a day and come back to see pages of pissing and moaning like a bunch of little kids fighting in the sandbox.

No wonder we are getting our azzes kicked by the Antis (we can't even agree on the fact that we're getting them kicked)!

DIVIDE AND CONQUER....downright embarassing !!!

[Devilbear]

I am not so sure that we ARE losing to the antis, such as that Genovalli guy, a total hypocrite and one whom I think will soon be exposed for what he really is. I have found a much greater acceptance of basic, resident food hunting here in Vancouver, for example, from about 2000 on than was the case from about 1980 until then.

I avoided MEC for years and I have been a member since early 1973, because of the foolish and offensive behaviour of many staffers there when one mentioned hunting. I lived close to the main store on Fir St. after I moved here to get married and many guys I knew felt as I did about the kind of people they hired until the late 90s. Now, while I do not shop there very often, I find the staffers I talk with to be quite accepting of hunting and actually interested in the organic meat and so on.

So, I honestly feel that we are in better shape, overall, than we were from about 1967 to 2000 and those among us who constantly advocate for resident hunting and fishing are having some effect, We can increase this if more people join and support the BCWF and take the time to politely talk with others and present a positive image of BC huntingéhunters, especially in venues such as MEC.

[willy442]

Wow.....I haven't checked in for a day and come back to see pages of pissing and moaning like a bunch of little kids fighting in the sandbox.

No wonder we are getting our azzes kicked by the Antis (we can't even agree on the fact that we're getting them kicked)!

DIVIDE AND CONQUER....downright embarassing !!!

Yep! I have to agree. Best described by the words "Kraft Dinner eaters" for many.

[Devilbear]

I hate the stuff, personally and have not eaten it since a meal in a camp up the Chisca River, with a "packer" who talked the talk, but, as with so many of those guys in that region, did not "walk the walk" and was a REAL jerk in all respects. I talked with Dave Wiens about this guy and also with some F&W boffins I knew and I understand that he is now out of the business.

That said, I have to suffer and eat Elk "T-bone" steak tonight and can only sympathize with these young fellas in their 50s, who are too soft and lazy to hike away from their huge and costly 4x4s they boast of owning and do some REAL hunting, for a change. This season will be my 46th and I am slower at 65, but, even with my serious orthopaedic injuries, I don't give up and become one of those Peace Country barnyard deer shooters, like some here I could mention.........

[Peter Pepper]

The law on interfering with a legal hunt was instituted in BC after the Collingwoods handed out a high country tuneup to the wing nuts in Spatsizi. There was nothing in place at the time and it was a result of the conflict.

Tell us the story! This was before my time and sounds interesting. "high country tune-up" heh heh

[bigwhiteys]

Tell us the story! This was before my time and sounds interesting. "high country tune-up" heh heh


The book "The Land Of The Red Goat" by Bob Henderson I believe tells it pretty good. It was actually a guy by the name of Ron Fleming who I think got'er started after one of the activists shot a "bear banger" a little too close to him and he snapped.

Carl

[Fisher-Dude]

This season will be my 46th and I am slower at 65, but, even with my serious orthopaedic injuries, I don't give up and become one of those Peace Country barnyard deer shooters, like some here I could mention.........

Willy boasted of shooting his best whitetail in a barnyard off the tailgate of his truck. Good on ya for showing him what a real resident hunter is made of, DB!

[willy442]

I hate the stuff, personally and have not eaten it since a meal in a camp up the Chisca River, with a "packer" who talked the talk, but, as with so many of those guys in that region, did not "walk the walk" and was a REAL jerk in all respects. I talked with Dave Wiens about this guy and also with some F&W boffins I knew and I understand that he is now out of the business.

That said, I have to suffer and eat Elk "T-bone" steak tonight and can only sympathize with these young fellas in their 50s, who are too soft and lazy to hike away from their huge and costly 4x4s they boast of owning and do some REAL hunting, for a change. This season will be my 46th and I am slower at 65, but, even with my serious orthopaedic injuries, I don't give up and become one of those Peace Country barnyard deer shooters, like some here I could mention.........

Enjoy your Elk steak. Had you hunted with a real Outfitter instead of an illegal packer, you may have gotten mashed potatoes instead of KD. Bye the way I'm having fresh caught Halibut and Prawns that I caught yesterday, in my 30 ft boat for dinner. It's better and healthier for us old guy's:)

[willy442]

Willy boasted of shooting his best whitetail in a barnyard off the tailgate of his truck. Good on ya for showing him what a real resident hunter is made of, DB!

There you go arriving at false assumptions again FD. It was actually just before dark in the corner of a huge alphalfa field.

Probably a place that very few could have been successful in taking him.

[Devilbear]

Wrong, again Willy, the "transporter" WAS perfectly legal and I actually only went with him as I had wanted to book with Ross Peck, that year, but, he was booked up and I was unable to check into others as I was working alone for 5.5 solid months in the bush for the Alberta Forest Service. So, on the advice of my surgeon, I booked with this character and my opinion of "packers" is probably about equal to yours as a result!

I had gone a couple of years before this with one of the supposed top outfitters in the Muskwa area and was NOT impressed with most of his crew and the treatment I received. I would have booked with Wiens, but, he did not offer the resident's hunts I wanted and so, I paid my money and learned my lesson. My experiences with both GOs and packers do not make me very tolerant of either and this is one reason why I think that changes have to be made and soon.

Hey, about ...old..., it is actually my 47th season as it is now 2011 and I STILL backpack hunt, ya YOUNG geezer! :)

My wife loves Halibut and Prawns and wants to stay on the coast for such reasons, but, I miss the snow and cold and mountains of the Kootenays and would actually move to around Toad River, if she did not need to be close to a major hospital. I will get a boat in a couple of years, but, probably a smaller one as I prefer flyfishing on the Kootenay and Columbia to any ocean or big lake fishing, having done some of each.

Smoked Kokanee, Elk tenderloin, Ruffed Grouse breasts and Nelson Brewing Company "Paddywhack" IPA, ice cold and with a big salad and homemade fries from my own organic spuds......that is livin'! :)

[Whisky Creek]

PeterPepper:
http://archives.cbc.ca/environment/environmental_protection/topics/867-5037/
Here's the clip of the CBC story from 1981. The story is told there, from the CBC perspective of course.
As I've said before, its too bad a few more things weren't taken care of in this, by today's socially accepted standards, old fashioned manner... I'm willing to bet there'd be a few less leaf lickers and loud mouths expressing themselves in inappropriate manners if they thought they might be held accountable for it.

[Devilbear]

He He He, I recall that exact TV presentation and I particularly find Patrick Moore's behaviour and comments highly amusing as he changed sides about ten years later, guess the "coin" was better and has mocked environmentalists ever since. I have never supported or liked "Greenpeace" and guys like Moore, Suzuki and several others were and are opportunistic charlatans who are "in it for the money"......kinda like some here, IMHO.

[Buckzilla]

That link doesn't work? Also interested to read whole story...

[behemoth]

I am not so sure that we ARE losing to the antis, such as that Genovalli guy, a total hypocrite and one whom I think will soon be exposed for what he really is. I have found a much greater acceptance of basic, resident food hunting here in Vancouver, for example, from about 2000 on than was the case from about 1980 until then.

I avoided MEC for years and I have been a member since early 1973, because of the foolish and offensive behaviour of many staffers there when one mentioned hunting. I lived close to the main store on Fir St. after I moved here to get married and many guys I knew felt as I did about the kind of people they hired until the late 90s. Now, while I do not shop there very often, I find the staffers I talk with to be quite accepting of hunting and actually interested in the organic meat and so on.

So, I honestly feel that we are in better shape, overall, than we were from about 1967 to 2000 and those among us who constantly advocate for resident hunting and fishing are having some effect, We can increase this if more people join and support the BCWF and take the time to politely talk with others and present a positive image of BC huntingéhunters, especially in venues such as MEC.

This is what is driving the "newfound" acceptance to hunting among the city types. Its too bad that hunters refuse to support the promotion of hunting as a source of orgainic, sustainable ethical protein. Somehow they feel that supporting this type of hunting is actually a rejection of other types of hunting.

The great irony is that the most publicy accepeted form of hunting (for food) has been denied a place at the table as a way to promote the sport. And it's the hunters that are denying themselves a voice

[Whisky Creek]

Buckzilla,

Maybe try typing it in, instead of using the link.
Not sure why it won't work for you, I just tried it and it worked on my laptop??????
Here's the same video from another link: http://archives.cbc.ca/emissions/emission.asp?page=1&IDLan=1&IDEmission=1567&IDClip=5037
I don't have a link for written report.
Or, you can just google: "spatsizi"+"greenpeace" and it will come up with a few links.

[Devilbear]

Were you living there when this took place or were you in the States, still, serving in "Mother Green"? If, you were not there, man, you should have seen that country north of Stewart, before they built the highway and when the road was only open perhaps 3.5 months of the year....some of the most stunning scenery I have ever seen, even for BC.

[Whisky Creek]

Dewey, I never served for "Mother Green" as you call it and no I wasn't living in there at the time, but, other than a little less ice on a few glaciers, I don't imagine the scenery hasn't changed much.

[Devilbear]

My mistake, your post concerning US service is on the locked thread and I got from it that you had US service. "Mother Green" or "Mother Green the Killing Machine" is a Vietnam era term for the US Army-Marine Corps and I learned it from friends of mine who later came to BC, after serving in Vietnam and worked on some of my silviculture crews. So, I guess it is an anachronistic term that only we old pharts know about.

I like that country and would move there as our pensions are quite decent and we are both experienced in remote living; but, the medical facilities are not what my wife needs. I wouldn't mind living outside of Dease and hunting off the Alcan from about the Tetsa to Dease, a lot of good country.

[Fisher-Dude]

This is what is driving the "newfound" acceptance to hunting among the city types. Its too bad that hunters refuse to support the promotion of hunting as a source of orgainic, sustainable ethical protein. Somehow they feel that supporting this type of hunting is actually a rejection of other types of hunting.

The great irony is that the most publicy accepeted form of hunting (for food) has been denied a place at the table as a way to promote the sport. And it's the hunters that are denying themselves a voice


The BCWF does promote hunting as a sustainable, organic source of food for BC residents, as well as the health benefits that come from being active in the outdoors. BC resident hunters are ~80% meat hunters first and foremost, with only 3% as true "trophy hunters" only.

The GOs promote the trophy hunting aspects of BC, and the "quality experience" to be gained by denying opportunity to resident hunters so that there is no "competition" that may "ruin" a wealthy foreigner's trip to BC.

Think about where you want to put your support.

Take a look at this link. (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/ds/docs/070607_HunterRecruitment-RetentionStrategy.pdf)



Although most people never give it any thought, raising food domestically has impact
on wildlife. Huge amounts of land, often in the most productive areas, must be developed
for farming, displacing wild ecosystems. To plant any given crop or raise any
livestock, one must first clear the land. All the native trees, shrubs, herbs, grasses and
mosses must be removed. Along with them go most of the birds, mammals, reptiles,
amphibians, and many of the invertebrates that lived there. Once the crop is planted, the
farmer must try to discourage any wildlife that interferes with the planted crop. This is
not to say that we shouldn’t farm or that farming is wrong, but rather to say that people
should be aware that there is a high cost in terms of wildlife and habitat for the food our
society requires. It is also worth noting that farming replaces one type of habitat with
another. Some species of wildlife, white-tailed deer and pheasants for example, do very
well in farmland.
Contrast this with hunting. Hunting is a form of selective harvest. When a deer hunter
ventures into an area, if the hunter is successful, he or she will take a deer. However,
all of the rest of the habitat is left as it was before. The overall ecological community
is unaltered. An individual deer is no longer there, but the rest of the deer population
continues to thrive in an environment that is left unscathed. It could be argued that too
many hunters would ultimately cause harm to the deer population, but we have wildlife
management programs to prevent this from occurring. Properly managed hunting allows
humans to take food from their environment while leaving the habitat intact and
the hunted population in a state that allows it to produce a sustainable yield indefinitely.
Farming controls the environment in order to create a harvest. Properly managed hunting
allows a natural harvestable surplus to be taken from an uncontrolled environment.

[Whisky Creek]

Devil Bear:
I have read one or two books, so, while I do understand the definition of various terms you old farts use, and their origin, what I meant was that I didn't serve in the army or marine corps. By the way, although they are in completely different branches of service, we collectively referred to them as "Trees" in my time, which more or less affectionately reflected their being big, green and dumb....

Too bad you are such a bad tempered, hornery, tourist hating old fellow because I need a semi-retired, wilderness loving, resourceful and self sufficient couple to run a tourist camp up on the Cassiar highway for me in the summer season.

[MattW]

The book "The Land Of The Red Goat" by Bob Henderson I believe tells it pretty good. It was actually a guy by the name of Ron Fleming who I think got'er started after one of the activists shot a "bear banger" a little too close to him and he snapped.

Carl
I'm just reading Cordillera and Stan Walchuk runs into a Ron Fleming in that area.

[Whisky Creek]

Ron and his missus, Brenda, live local here. Ron did work in Spatsizi when he first started out in guiding but his family have run their own area now for a long time, with help now from their daughter and son-in-law. Their outfit is called Love Bros. & Lee (kept the original name) and found at www.lovebroslee.com (http://www.lovebroslee.com) Ron and Brenda are really great folks and with a campfire & beer in front of you, you could listen to Ron tell stories all night long and be thoroughly entertained!!! He's certainly seen some country and adventures in his day!

[Rainsford]

"
It 
is 
our 
understanding
 that 
our 
needs
 as 
residents 
come
 after 
the 
constitutional 
needs 
of 
First 
Nations 
have 
been 
addressed.
"

Can someone please explain to me how in a society and a country where I have always been taught that everyone is equal how the hell a statement like that can be in a government document? Is this blatantly not saying otherwise?
I also want to make it clear I am in no was racist against any race I have friends and have dated women from all different backgrounds, but this makes no sense to me.

[David Heitsman]

Now I wish that I had shot that big sow when we were up there last November. I figured iot might be my last chance for a Charlotte's bear.

[Weatherby Fan]

"
It 
is 
our 
understanding
 that 
our 
needs
 as 
residents 
come
 after 
the 
constitutional 
needs 
of 
First 
Nations 
have 
been 
addressed.
"

Can someone please explain to me how in a society and a country where I have always been taught that everyone is equal how the hell a statement like that can be in a government document? Is this blatantly not saying otherwise?
I also want to make it clear I am in no was racist against any race I have friends and have dated women from all different backgrounds, but this makes no sense to me.

As long as you are a taxpayer and an honest hardworking citizen you will always be 2 below a toaster in this Province/Country as nobody in our Government wants to stand up against a minority as you will be labeled raicist imediately,just get used to it as it's only going to get worse !