Age This Sheep Horn. [Archive]

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 09:26 AM

For You Sheep hunter can you tell me how old this big horn sheep is ??? my guess is 12 years old ???? :confused:.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/P4210011.JPG (http://javascript:;)

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/P4210014.JPG (http://javascript:;)

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/P4210016.JPG (http://javascript:;)

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/P4210010.JPG (javascript:;)

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 09:35 AM

More different angles.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/P4210012.JPG (http://javascript:;)

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/P4210015.JPG (http://javascript:;)

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/P4210017.JPG (javascript:;)

I hope I gave enough angles ???.

elkdom

04-21-2011, 09:43 AM

what did they estimate ,when you had it inspected ????

835

04-21-2011, 09:44 AM

4?????
I have only the fundamental idea of how to do this.

Jagermeister

04-21-2011, 09:46 AM

"Inspected"????? Explain "inspected".

snareman1234

04-21-2011, 09:46 AM

I would say almost two? Killed during the winter...

But bighorns have long lamb tips....soo maybe that first one is false and it's almost one?

O...if it it is a ewe like Carl says, then I'm way off..

bigwhiteys

04-21-2011, 09:46 AM

Why would you want to age a ewe? At least that's what it looks like to me.

elkdom

04-21-2011, 09:50 AM

"Inspected"????? Explain "inspected".

the sheep horns I have ,are inspected and have been plugged, do you understand ?

snareman1234

04-21-2011, 09:52 AM

the sheep horns I have ,are inspected and have been plugged, do you understand ?

Ya but he didnt kill this? it was picked up

elkdom

04-21-2011, 10:01 AM

Ya but he didnt kill this? it was picked up

so possession of Sheep Horns without inspection is ok, if you just "pic-them-up ?"

amazing,,,

Rodd

04-21-2011, 10:02 AM

I'd say a young Ram maybe 2.5 years old....

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 10:03 AM

what did they estimate ,when you had it inspected ????

Inspected :confused: 20 years old :mrgreen:

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 10:07 AM

I got 12 grow rings on this sheep each ring is a year correct ??? it is a ewe sheep correct ???.

Rodd

04-21-2011, 10:12 AM

I think its a young Ram based on the Bases... Ewes are generally thinner bases.. Only the rings that look like they've been cut into the horns are the annuli, the bubbly looking rings are just growth rings. IMO

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 10:15 AM

I found the horns like the picture shows no skull no bones anywhere around one week ago on one of my shed hunts ,like I said I am no sheep hunter but would like to know all about the sheep horns from someone that knows what there talking about....

jml11

04-21-2011, 10:22 AM

Ya but he didnt kill this? it was picked up

All Sheep horns are to be inspected and plugged, picked up or killed. Until that time, you are not in legal possesion of the horns...You have 30 days from the date of kill, not sure what the timeline is on pickups.

Rodd

04-21-2011, 10:23 AM

They (CO's assuming they were notified) let you keep them?? I guess it depends on who you ask..

snareman1234

04-21-2011, 10:26 AM

All Sheep horns are to be inspected and plugged, picked up or killed. Until that time, you are not in legal possesion of the horns...You have 30 days from the date of kill, not sure what the timeline is on pickups.

Well there ya go eh, thanks for that, I did not know this.

835

04-21-2011, 10:31 AM

Really?,
A picked up horne needs to be inspected? Is this in the regs? I would like to see it, It doesnt make sense to me.

Disclaimer: Never heard of this rule before, honest question

16ga

04-21-2011, 10:39 AM

so possession of Sheep Horns without inspection is ok, if you just "pic-them-up ?"

amazing,,,

You need a permit, for interest here is a link to a case out of Castlegar (trophy horns)

http://www.eab.gov.bc.ca/wildlife/98wil28.htm

bigben

04-21-2011, 10:40 AM

Go to your nearest enviromental office and get him to give you an address to ship to UBC and get a biologist to identify what it is first and then he will give you a guestimate of the age ............................PS you might want to get it inspected first and be giving a receipt to be in possession of it ...........everything belongs to the crown and it has to be legally given to you the taxpayer before you can possesion good luck

snareman1234

04-21-2011, 10:43 AM

You need a permit, for interest here is a link to a case out of Castlegar (trophy horns)

http://www.eab.gov.bc.ca/wildlife/98wil28.htm

Thats bull! he finds it, and then the RM denies him because they are B&C and of monetary value, therefore not his anymore, and become gov't property to be auctioned off....wow

WesHarm

04-21-2011, 10:48 AM

..if u read close it says

"In reviewing your request I do not find any specific reason to issue a permit to you for possession of these horns. Your hunt for horns you specified as being for shed horns which require no permit and therefore the finding of these sheep horns was a fortuitous event for you. They also represent a considerable monetary value."

meaning an "already shed" horn requires no permit? if im reading that correctly?

Podman

04-21-2011, 10:52 AM

I have been told that you leave them where they are until you contact the fish cops and they can inspect to confirm how the animal was killed and if there was any foul play. If they are found on crown land you may get to keep them. If they are found in a park usually the govt takes them. There is the story about they guys who found a recent near world record at Cadomin and the govt took them.

Jagermeister

04-21-2011, 10:59 AM

Elkdom, I knew that, but being an old smartass, I threw that in there to bring forth the information about inspecting wildlife "bone". Particulatly sheep "bone" and the legality of possessing without inspection and having the plug inserted.
Quite a few people do not understand that wildlife "bone" picked up is the property of the Province. Even roadkill.

6616

04-21-2011, 11:01 AM

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 11:21 AM

I just walked in the door from going to the wildlife branch here I took the horns with me and they got me to fill out a form and now I have two fill out a second form and send the two of them to Victoria they let me keep the horns for now will see what happens down the road ??.

835

04-21-2011, 11:23 AM

So now we got that squared away this thing i about 2? I guessed 4 earlier but seemes people are puting it at 2

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 11:25 AM

bighornbob

04-21-2011, 11:27 AM

I believe it's a young ram about 20 months old (roughly just shy of 2 years old). Typically bighorn rams in the East Kootenay have 4 to 7 inch lamb tips then grow an additional 8 to 12 inches in their second growth year. To me the bases look too heavy for it to be a ewe. It's very difficult nearly impossible) to age a bighorn ewe by annuli since they don't have the same testosterone spurt during the rut that causes growth rings in males.

I agree.

From the objects around the horns I figure the bases are about the size of a tennis ball which makes it a ram. I see a ring about 4 inches from the tip and this would be the lamb tip. There are no other rings as the ram died just before the second ring would have been made so a 1 1/2 year old ram.

All sheep horns have to be inspected (shot or found) and pinned (if possible). In this case, I am sure they would not be pinned and they just might let you keep it. If they really wanted to be sticlers they would charge you the $75 for a permit.

Basically anything above a 1/2 curl is kept because it has a value over $200 at the auctions (carvers buy them for knife handles or art pieces).

BHB

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 11:32 AM

I agree.

From the objects around the horns I figure the bases are about the size of a tennis ball which makes it a ram. I see a ring about 4 inches from the tip and this would be the lamb tip. There are no other rings as the ram died just before the second ring would have been made so a 1 1/2 year old ram.

All sheep horns have to be inspected (shot or found) and pinned (if possible). In this case, I am sure they would not be pinned and they just might let you keep it. If they really wanted to be sticlers they would charge you the $75 for a permit.

Basically anything above a 1/2 curl is kept because it has a value over $200 at the auctions (carvers buy them for knife handles or art pieces).

BHB

If they want $75.00 from me I will give them the horns there not worth that much to me ,LOL.

WesHarm

04-21-2011, 11:34 AM

wow with all this talk about the crown owning the animals on the land... makes me feel like im back in nottingham and any game found in the forest is not for us peasant rabble ;) hahaha

Hope they let you keep them! they definately look pretty cool!

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 11:37 AM

Really?,
A picked up horne needs to be inspected? Is this in the regs? I would like to see it, It doesnt make sense to me.

Disclaimer: Never heard of this rule before, honest question

When I was over at the wildlife branch I asked them do horns have to be reported when found in the bush she said yes all sheep horns that are picked up have to be reported ,antlers do not have to be reported.

greenhorn

04-21-2011, 11:39 AM

I agree.

From the objects around the horns I figure the bases are about the size of a tennis ball which makes it a ram. I see a ring about 4 inches from the tip and this would be the lamb tip. There are no other rings as the ram died just before the second ring would have been made so a 1 1/2 year old ram.

All sheep horns have to be inspected (shot or found) and pinned (if possible). In this case, I am sure they would not be pinned and they just might let you keep it. If they really wanted to be sticlers they would charge you the $75 for a permit.

Basically anything above a 1/2 curl is kept because it has a value over $200 at the auctions (carvers buy them for knife handles or art pieces).

BHB

When all is said and done, the gov. will put out $1000 bucks in man hours and paper trails to get $200 for some sheep horns.

jml11

04-21-2011, 11:45 AM

Thats bull! he finds it, and then the RM denies him because they are B&C and of monetary value, therefore not his anymore, and become gov't property to be auctioned off....wow

Yes while it sucks for the honest person...it's to aid in reducing poaching potential. Otherwise what's to stop someone from killing a trophy animal out of season (wintering grounds where animals congregate and generally easy to find and kill) and going back to the kill later to 'pick it up'...and now they are in the book. Yes it has a happened. Look through the BC book, their is one individual who has half dozen (at least) california bighorn pick ups in the book...seems like the guy may have 'known' where to look...not saying that's what was done, maybe they are truly random pick-ups, but the rumour mill swirls hard around those pick-ups...

jml11

04-21-2011, 11:47 AM

Really?,
A picked up horne needs to be inspected? Is this in the regs? I would like to see it, It doesnt make sense to me.

Disclaimer: Never heard of this rule before, honest question

It's in the Wildife Act, it is illegal to possess any form or part of dead wildlife without a permit. The ministry can request to inspect the animal or part of the animal before issuing a permit.

Looked up the Wildlife Act Section:

Possession of wildlife

33 (1) A person commits an offence if the person has live wildlife in his or her personal possession except as authorized under a licence or permit or as provided by regulation.
(2) A person commits an offence if the person has dead wildlife or a part of any wildlife in his or her possession except as authorized under a licence or permit or as provided by regulation.
(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to a person acting under a licence under the Fur Farm Act or the Game Farm Act.

greenhorn

04-21-2011, 11:53 AM

Yes while it sucks for the honest person...it's to aid in reducing poaching potential. Otherwise what's to stop someone from killing a trophy animal out of season (wintering grounds where animals congregate and generally easy to find and kill) and going back to the kill later to 'pick it up'...and now they are in the book. Yes it has a happened. Look through the BC book, their is one individual who has half dozen (at least) california bighorn pick ups in the book...seems like the guy may have 'known' where to look...not saying that's what was done, maybe they are truly random pick-ups, but the rumour mill swirls hard around those pick-ups...

Not saying that you're suggesting this rule is a good one, but I don't agree with the logic that we should pass laws that inconvenience everyone, just to stop some d-bag from getting in the B&C book. There are poaching laws already, and people still poach.

It's the same flawed logic that's used to argue for the long gun registry. "We need to regulate and police hunting arms to protect ourselves from criminals with unregistered weapons and handguns from the states"

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 12:03 PM

This is one of 2 fourms that I have to fill out and send.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/P4210023.JPG (http://javascript:;)

Trapper

04-21-2011, 12:05 PM

16ga

04-21-2011, 12:15 PM

My son found a 10 + old ram this last fall not far from where Wayne found his.He took it home and called the co. they came out to the location with him and determined it was a cougar kill, the co said if it was up to him he would let him keep it but its not up to him,he took it into Cranbrook and dropped it of at the envioment office.A few days later they phoned and said that Victoria said it had more then a $200 value and he wouldn't be able to keep it.

the law may have changed in the last few years, but if you check out the link I included in my earlier post you will see a guy the found a set of trophy horns was able to keep them, if you want the horns ask for an appeal and site this case.

juiceterboost

04-21-2011, 12:35 PM

a.) take them to a co to get a pin otherwise you are in unlawful posession
b.) they are a ewe and very interesting to age im getting 8 and a half as they have lamb tips as well

just my thoughts nice pickup another thing you can do if you like picking up road kill or found wildlife go to the government agents office and get a permit they have them and are a nice backup

bighornbob

04-21-2011, 01:17 PM

the law may have changed in the last few years, but if you check out the link I included in my earlier post you will see a guy the found a set of trophy horns was able to keep them, if you want the horns ask for an appeal and site this case.

If you read the whole link you posted, he was able to keep them becuase at that time "Monetary value" was below "private rights". During the appeal the law changed to place "Monetary value" above "private ownership".

BHB

16ga

04-21-2011, 01:57 PM

If you read the whole link you posted, he was able to keep them becuase at that time "Monetary value" was below "private rights". During the appeal the law changed to place "Monetary value" above "private ownership".

BHB

Apologies in advance for going a bit sideways. thanks BHB showing the change, I didn't see that. Seems unfair, a 10 year old walking in the woods finds a nice set of horns, reports it to the CO, then has them taken away, what message does that send.

bighornbob

04-21-2011, 02:08 PM

Apologies in advance for going a bit sideways. thanks BHB showing the change, I didn't see that. Seems unfair, a 10 year old walking in the woods finds a nice set of horns, reports it to the CO, then has them taken away, what message does that send.

Like anything its few bad apples that spoil it for everyone. Like others have said whats stopping someone from shooting one in the winter and coming back in the spring with it and saying "look what i found".

My uncle told me a story that he heard that guy found one every spring (4 years in a row). The GOV kept the first three but let him keep the 4th. He heard they let him keep one so hopefully he would be happy and maybe stop "finding" them. Who knows how true it was.

BHB

hunter1947

04-21-2011, 02:22 PM

I can see why they the wildlife branch have this mandatory horn report in place just like you said bighornbob or there would lots of pouching taking place.

My question is if I was hunting for big horn sheep in the GOS for sheep and I came across a full curl ram that had been dead for over a year or so And I clipped my tag for this find could I claim and keep these horns after I handed them in for inspection???.

hunter7413

04-21-2011, 02:26 PM

i believe all sheep needs a plug ,pick up or not

bighornbob

04-21-2011, 02:46 PM

My question is if I was hunting for big horn sheep in the GOS for sheep and I came across a full curl ram that had been dead for over a year or so And I clipped my tag for this find could I claim and keep these horns after I handed them in for inspection???.

I dont think you could as the sheep horns have to be inspected. So when you bring them in, the inspector sees they are not fresh, it will only bring up questions. I dont really see a difference from the example I gave earlier. A guy could easily shoot/poach a ram in the winter and leave the skull there, then in the fall buy a tag and say he found it while sheep hunting.

BHB

elkdom

04-21-2011, 03:00 PM

You need a permit, for interest here is a link to a case out of Castlegar (trophy horns)

http://www.eab.gov.bc.ca/wildlife/98wil28.htm

I have been aware for many,many years that ANY wildlife part, other than "Antler sheds", require a MOE PERMIT , unless the animal parts, were taken under license during a lawful hunting season,,,

what I was "amazed at is" ????,

how many other persons/resident hunters, that dont seem to recognize the fact!

.270

04-21-2011, 03:53 PM

I think it's a year and a half old ram.

Here is a link to some pictures to compare to. http://www.backpackingintherubymountains.info/animals/bighornsheepaging.html

jml11

04-21-2011, 04:24 PM

Not saying that you're suggesting this rule is a good one, but I don't agree with the logic that we should pass laws that inconvenience everyone, just to stop some d-bag from getting in the B&C book. There are poaching laws already, and people still poach.

It's the same flawed logic that's used to argue for the long gun registry. "We need to regulate and police hunting arms to protect ourselves from criminals with unregistered weapons and handguns from the states"

I certainly see your point and to be honest I can see the value of the policy, but also the flaws it has as well. You also have to consider the potential monetary aspect that comes from potentially owning a world class animal that you 'picked up'. Take the Arrow Lakes bull for example. The owner of these antlers could have made thousands of dollars if allowed to keep them, which is what the poacher who arrowed that bull was probably seeing, dollar signs. From that sense I can understand why the government has put a maximum value of what an animal part has to be worth before they claim it and I do believe it has curbed some poaching, but probably only a small percentage though as like you said, poachers will still poach, but it does make it much more difficult to make the animal 'legal'. Is the threshold ($200 IIRC) appropriate, I don't know, it seems low.

It would be interesting to see stats, but I am sure the frequency of trophy class animals being 'picked up' and brought in for permits has gone down since the implementation of the policy, unlike the long-gun registry which has done very little if anything to curb gun related crimes and deaths. Is it fair...no, but is it required, to some degree yes. You can probably look at many laws, regulations or policies and determine why it is flawed or unfair for the honest citizen.

Having said all that, I have never found a trophy class animal that I could 'pick up' and if I did, I would certainly want to keep it for myself...

whitetailsheds

04-21-2011, 06:22 PM

[QUOTE=.270;902374]I think it's a year and a half old ram.

x2 for 1.5 years.

Walking Buffalo

04-21-2011, 08:38 PM

In Alberta, harvesting ewes is an important part of our sheep management plan.

Over the years, I've taken a few. As you know, fantastic eating!

From the pics, I would age her at 4 1/2.

hunter1947

04-22-2011, 02:37 AM

I know one thing after reading posts on this my thread if I ever find any sheep horns in the future when in the bush hunting or shed hunting they will stay where they are ,I will mark a weigh point call in to the wildlife branch and let them deal with it.

I have heard a few stories from friends I know that did not get to keep the sheep horns they found that where a few years old and coast them time and time away from work because they turned in these horns.

After reading a few post on this thread I can understand why the wildlife branch will not let the finder keep an adult set of sheep horns as said if they did there would be lots of pouching going on in order to keep the horns.

bigwhiteys

04-22-2011, 06:58 AM

http://bchuntingblog.com/mypics/eweram.jpg

Do some of you still think this is a young ram? It sure looks like a weathered old set of ewe horns to me! :)

Carl

.270

04-22-2011, 10:25 AM

hmmm, looking at this picture I think you're right.

Jagermeister

04-22-2011, 08:50 PM

I too agree with bigwhiteys.

bearass

04-22-2011, 09:11 PM

Ya I agree to they are ewe horns.

guest

04-22-2011, 11:01 PM

Why Bother?

Ct

Kody94

04-22-2011, 11:32 PM

Looks all ewe to me

hunter1947

04-23-2011, 03:16 AM

So some of you members say that this is an adult ewe and if so can you guess an age on these horns http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.png..

bigwhiteys

04-23-2011, 08:30 AM

So some of you members say that this is an adult ewe and if so can you guess an age on these horns http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.png..

I would say she's all of 4 or 5 years old based on what I can see, but this would be my first attempt at aging a ewe.

Carl

Walking Buffalo

04-23-2011, 10:15 AM

In Alberta, harvesting ewes is an important part of our sheep management plan.

Over the years, I've taken a few. As you know, fantastic eating!

From the pics, I would age her at 4 1/2.

I must be on the ignore list. :lol:

At first I was surprised at how many guys thought this was a young ram, but I understand the gender focus since there are no ewe hunts in BC.

Here are a couple of pics of ewe horns, a 4 1/2 (10 1/4") and a 2 1/2 year old (6 1/2") . The cartridge is 3 3/8" long.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/ewe5.jpg

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/ewe2.jpg

bigwhiteys

04-23-2011, 10:22 AM

At first I was surprised at how many guys thought this was a young ram, but I understand the gender focus since there are no ewe hunts in BC.

I was a little surprised as well, especially coming from some of the Bighorn guys!

Carl

Whip

04-23-2011, 07:47 PM

At least you amazed elkdim!

elkdom

04-23-2011, 08:18 PM

At least you amazed elkdim!

you misunderstood, "amazed" for "sarcasm" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:neutral:

hunter1947

04-24-2011, 02:25 AM

This might help I got an 8 inch measurement around the base of the horns and I put the tape on the top of the horns from the base of the horn up to the end I have 12 inches.

kgriz

04-24-2011, 06:25 AM

Since a couple of people on here seem to think that taking these pickups from people will act as a deterent to the "nasty poachers" of the world, please explain to me the logic of the yearly auction of seized items such as these...If you are going to tell the story, tell the WHOLE story of where this stuff ends up......
Point of fact, if somebody gets busted for, say a short sheep, they can get their fine and then request a tracking of the cape and horns pretty much all of the way to this auction.....bid on them, and then legally possess them......
I wonder who could accidentally harvest an animal and then have the backup money ( foreign perhaps? ), to go and buy them from the auction.....
Having been to quite a few of these auctions in search of cheap cougar hides to train our hounds, I can assure you that I saw a lot of wildlife pickup type stuff including sheep horns in perfectly good condition go for less than $200.

boxhitch

04-24-2011, 07:43 AM

Having been to quite a few of these auctions in search of cheap cougar hides to train our hounds, I can assure you that I saw a lot of wildlife pickup type stuff including sheep horns in perfectly good condition go for less than $200. Then you probably also have an idea what a trophy of high B&C standing could sell for ? Not all are on office walls, are they ?

The whole $200 limit and sale of goods is part of the ploy to enforce the rule that all resources and wildlife and parts belong to the Crown until permitted to a commoner.

kgriz

04-24-2011, 08:07 AM

Siily me thought "the crown", ultimately means " the people" hah.....I think its ridiculous to make broad laws to try and stop the odd highlighted act.....
Get real and realistic...if somebody actually thinks that it would be fairly common for a person to shoot and illegal animal and hide it until a year later etc.....that same person could for instance, shoot a short stone....hide it and then buy one of many short sets for about 200 hunny at the auction, take out the pin, put it in the new one and Voila, "legal" horns with paperwork and everything; the paperwork is not specific enough to catch this if the horns were close....point being you cannot stop somebody with some actual intent....so why punish the majority for the acts of the few?

Walking Buffalo

04-24-2011, 08:20 AM

This might help I got an 8 inch measurement around the base of the horns and I put the tape on the top of the horns from the base of the horn up to the end I have 12 inches.

It helps me think I might have to eat my words. :) An 8" base is too heavy for a ewe.

2 1/2 year old ram.

In AB, the ewe hunt has similar issues of sex ID as hunting goats. It can be very easy to mistake a 1-2 year old ram for a ewe based on the horns only. I always choose a dry ewe, so the best ID is a backside view between the legs.