field trials

[mjmbc]

just a quick question i have a purebred choc lab but no papers are there any trils for dogs that arent papered or purebred

[Jimsue]

No, the dog has to be CKC or AKC registered. I don't think any club would turn you away at a picnic trial, and most training groups would welcome you to train with them.

[GoldNGun Retrievers]

actually, YES there is an organization that allows non papered purebreds. The HRC (Hunting Retriever Club and United kennel Club) are providing a program to develop the hunting retriever to fulfill its intended purpose. To that end, they offer a Limited Privelige Listing for purebred dogs that may have an incomplete pedigree or be without registry affiliation. It must be spayed or neutered. Dogs are not registered and do not enter the gene pool. They are "listed" which gives them the opportunity to earn points and titles in working events.
There is one club on Vancouver Island (Saltchuck HRC) who are holding a hunt in May and there is another being started on the mainland. PM if you would like more info.

[Foxton Gundogs]

There WAS(not sure if they are still going) The B.C. Gundog Assoc. that held trials on an allround leval(based on a upland flush or point and waterfowl format) I'll see if I still have contact info or if it became a casuality of the move.

[mjmbc]

thanks guys Imost certainly like more info if you have thanks again

[Foxton Gundogs]

I was in P.G. when I first got involved with them so RELATIVELY in your neck of the woods but have moved a couple of times so no promises but will see what I can do. Perhaps The Springer Spaniel Club of Northern B.C.(if they are still around) can point you right. They were based in P.G. Good Luck

[kinderdoggin]

If your dog is eligible for a CKC Performance Event Number, you would be able to compete in CKC events. There are some conditions (ie you need to send in photos of the dog, proof of spay/neuter, etc). Here is the form with all the details: http://www.ckc.ca/en/Portals/0/pdf/ckc%20forms/shows%20&%20trials/Other%20Shows%20&%20Trials%20Forms/06-150-11-51.pdf

Hope that helps!

[mjmbc]

thanks again i competed 1nce in alberta with her at four mnths at a gun club event she she placed 8th out of a hundred pups that were a year or less havent done any others since moveing back to BC shes now two and one of the best dogs ive ever seen in the field actually hunting ducks and geese soso on the pheasants and grouse but shes comeing along great

[Kasomor]

If your dog is eligible for a CKC Performance Event Number, you would be able to compete in CKC events. There are some conditions (ie you need to send in photos of the dog, proof of spay/neuter, etc). Here is the form with all the details: http://www.ckc.ca/en/Portals/0/pdf/ckc%20forms/shows%20&%20trials/Other%20Shows%20&%20Trials%20Forms/06-150-11-51.pdf

Hope that helps!

I don't think this dog would qualify for a PEN #. First question the CKC will ask is if purebred why isn't the dog registered? Because the breeder did not registering the dog is not a reason in the CKC eyes. Dog should have been registered if purebred.

Like Foxton said...the dog can compete in HRC tests once registered with them. Which will be no problem.

[Kayte]

I don't think this dog would qualify for a PEN #. First question the CKC will ask is if purebred why isn't the dog registered? Because the breeder did not registering the dog is not a reason in the CKC eyes. Dog should have been registered if purebred.
i don't see why this dog couldn't get a PEN #
I know a few dogs of unknown pedigree that have qualified, based on the photos they sent in. as long as the dog fits the breed standard, and is spayed/neutered, they shouldn't have a problem getting a PEN number to compete.

[Kasomor]

i don't see why this dog couldn't get a PEN #
I know a few dogs of unknown pedigree that have qualified, based on the photos they sent in. as long as the dog fits the breed standard, and is spayed/neutered, they shouldn't have a problem getting a PEN number to compete.

Well......according to the CKC the following requirements are to be met before a dog is eligible for a PEN.

Q. What criteria must be met in order for my dog to be eligible for a PEN? (javascript:__doPostBack('dnn$ctr674$FAQs$lstFAQs$ _ctl6$Q',''))
A. The criteria for Performance Event Number eligibility are as follows:
1. The dog must be of a breed recognized by the CKC.

2. The dog, for one reason or another, is not eligible for CKC registration.

3. The dog must be spayed or neutered.

4. In the case of a foreign born dog residing in the USA, in addition to the above, the dog must have been issued an AKC ILP number.


So how would #2 be met if the dog is purebred? Why was it not registered in the first place? The breeder did not register the dog??? I'd like to see the CKC's answer to that. :)

MJMBC, try it.
CKC General Enquiries:
Tel: 416-675-5511
Email: information@ckc.ca (information@ckc.ca%20)

[Jimsue]

The original question was to compete in field trials, are you aware that field trialing is different than a hunt test and hunting in the field. I'm a slow two finger typer, maybe some one could explane the difference, if he can get a number start with a Jr Hunt test, and go from there. I doubt there is a hunting dog in the province that has never been to a field trial that would last 3 minutes in an open.

[Kasomor]

Hmmmm...is that because there are no white coats a huntin'? Na....if he can get a number better to start with the big dogs!

And since GoldnGuns was the CKC rep for FT or was it HT???.... or has it been both???......it was was SOMETHING :cool:..... he would know about this. :mrgreen:

[mjmbc]

actually i did compete in field trials more than fifteen years ago with my chessie and my yellow it was great fun after they passed on i stopped altogether untill i got this dog so i was just wondering is all asive been out of it for so long

[mjmbc]

and the reason she has no papers is the breeder wouldnt register her i do have photo copies of the parents paperwork

[kinderdoggin]

I don't know what the intent of the PEN program is if it's not for this type of situation... but I do know that the CKC has given out PEN's for exactly this scenario before - breeder of two registered dogs fails to register puppies - not the buyer's fault that they broke the rules. MJMBC, if you have copies of the parent's papers I would think that you will be good to go. Since the dog must be spayed/neuter and a fee must accompany the application I doubt the CKC is going to be too fussy. At least I hope not, given their current financial condition. :)

[Angus]

I doubt there is a hunting dog in the province that has never been to a field trial that would last 3 minutes in an open.

Kinda harsh statement, likely accurate, but harsh none the less seeing this is a HUNTING forum.

I've met Jim, and he's a great guy. He was kind enough to take me across the line last year to observe a day of field trial training, from which I learned a great deal. I'm very greatfull for the experience. However, that comment seemed a bit arrogant on a Hunting forum and needs to be responded to.

I'd sooner have my self-trained hunting dog with me in a blind than some Van Damme Universal Soldier trial dog bouncing off the walls.

And the "lasting three minutes" comment, well of course a hunting dog wouldn't last that long, they're usually back in the blind in less than two minutes with the bird.:mrgreen: Typically, we're not shooting at birds a half mile away.

Just keepin' ya honest Jim.

Terry

[Kasomor]

Pass the popcorn please. :lol:

[Angus]

Hang on Kas, I've got the Jiffy-Pop sitting on the e-collar prongs, she's cranked up to 11 (thanks Spinal Tap) and I'm holding the button down. Gonna take a few minutes.

[Kasomor]

Hang on Kas, I've got the Jiffy-Pop sitting on the e-collar prongs, she's cranked up to 11 (thanks Spinal Tap) and I'm holding the button down. Gonna take a few minutes.

Oh-oh....now you dun it!

I'll have extra butter on that!

[Foxton Gundogs]

Kinda harsh statement, likely accurate, but harsh none the less seeing this is a HUNTING forum.

I've met Jim, and he's a great guy. He was kind enough to take me across the line last year to observe a day of field trial training, from which I learned a great deal. I'm very greatfull for the experience. However, that comment seemed a bit arrogant on a Hunting forum and needs to be responded to.

I'd sooner have my self-trained hunting dog with me in a blind than some Van Damme Universal Soldier trial dog bouncing off the walls.

And the "lasting three minutes" comment, well of course a hunting dog wouldn't last that long, they're usually back in the blind in less than two minutes with the bird.:mrgreen: Typically, we're not shooting at birds a half mile away.

Just keepin' ya honest Jim.

Terry


Agreed, I titled 5 dogs in the late 80's and early 90's traveled extensively met fantastic people and had a GREAT time and it taught me that trial dogs and personal gun dogs or should I say SUCESSFULL trial dogs and ENJOYABLE personal gundogs are two different things. ( I know here come the "Well MY dog" posts) For my money a good "gundog" is no less trained or efficent than a trial dog they simply do things differently and have learned to be lower keyed and not so "hot" and concequently have (as a rule) greater staying power in the field.
As Waylon sang "He ain,t wrong, He's just different" and the bottom line is we all love and enjoy our dogs for who they are and what they can (or can't)do.

PLEASE PASS THE JIFFY POP

[Jimsue]

I knew some one would bite...... just as hunting dogs would find it difficult at a field trial, some field trial dogs would have a hard time in a hunting situation.
As they say in Ireland " different horses, for different courses " I think I have a Van Dam pup, I left her in the states last weekend and the kids were happy she stayed there. No offence intended.

[Angus]

None taken, Jim. But like you said, somebody had to bite. I figure it's because I'm a little on the Van Damme side today myself, since I managed to score a free lowerbowl seat to the 'Nucks game tonight.

Not the first time I've had to stand up to the guys in white coats, though as I recall in my previous experience, they were not involved with dogs.:mrgreen:

[Kasomor]

If your dog is eligible for a CKC Performance Event Number, you would be able to compete in CKC events. There are some conditions (ie you need to send in photos of the dog, proof of spay/neuter, etc). Here is the form with all the details: http://www.ckc.ca/en/Portals/0/pdf/ckc%20forms/shows%20&%20trials/Other%20Shows%20&%20Trials%20Forms/06-150-11-51.pdf

Hope that helps!

I know this is an old thread but :mrgreen: I asked the CKC about this dog's circumstances and it it cound get a PEN number. It has taken this long for the CKC to get back to me. :(

Why, do I care you (the collective YOU) might ask... because...the OP's dog was sold to him as purebred and the breeder did not register the pups.

Therefore if he can get a PEN number under those conditions, why should any of us breeders who sell our dogs as performace dogs bother to register our pups when we can get around it like the OP's breeder did? It would save me $$ NOT to register my puppies.

This is the answer from the CKC.

"Dear -----

Just so you are aware the intention of the Performance Event Number program was to allow rescued dogs of a recognized breed to compete in CKC events and not be treated as an alternate form of registration for dogs represented and sold as pure bred. As in accordance with the Animal Pedigree Act, if a dog is represented as pure bred then a breeder is obligated to provide registration at no additional cost to the new owner and a breeder is in violation by selling without.

If this person has a receipt which documents the dam and sire of their dog, they could choose to contact our Regulatory Division for assistance in receiving registration of their dog through normal registration procedures. However, this person is also welcome to apply for a Performance Event Number (PEN) and each application is reviewed individually.

Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely,
The Canadian Kennel Club

Mrs. Sandra Makkar
Supervisor, Results
Shows & Trials Division"

[Foxton Gundogs]

I know this is an old thread but :mrgreen: I asked the CKC about this dog's circumstances and it it cound get a PEN number. It has taken this long for the CKC to get back to me. :(

Why, do I care you (the collective YOU) might ask... because...the OP's dog was sold to him as purebred and the breeder did not register the pups.

Therefore if he can get a PEN number under those conditions, why should any of us breeders who sell our dogs as performace dogs bother to register our pups when we can get around it like the OP's breeder did? It would save me $$ NOT to register my puppies.

This is the answer from the CKC.

"Dear -----

Just so you are aware the intention of the Performance Event Number program was to allow rescued dogs of a recognized breed to compete in CKC events and not be treated as an alternate form of registration for dogs represented and sold as pure bred. As in accordance with the Animal Pedigree Act, if a dog is represented as pure bred then a breeder is obligated to provide registration at no additional cost to the new owner and a breeder is in violation by selling without.

If this person has a receipt which documents the dam and sire of their dog, they could choose to contact our Regulatory Division for assistance in receiving registration of their dog through normal registration procedures. However, this person is also welcome to apply for a Performance Event Number (PEN) and each application is reviewed individually.

Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely,
The Canadian Kennel Club

Mrs. Sandra Makkar
Supervisor, Results
Shows & Trials Division"

Hey Kas. In my mind what the ckc is saying by allowing "this" dog to get a # and compete is "It's OK to screw the public Mr. (and I use the word very loosely)"BREEDER". It is illegal under the "livestock pedigree act" or what ever they call it now, to sell a dog as purebred and NOT supply the papers at "NO EXTRA COST". While I think on 1 hand it's nice that they are giving dog owners who get defrauded out of their money (cause fraud by any other name is still fraud) a chance to "play" with their dogs. I also believe and have for years, even going back to my days as a CKC trial rep., that the CKC should be going after these "criminals" and doing something about it. Although its hard in the case of a "BREEDER" that does not register an entire litter it should be pretty easy to figure that when 7 pups are born and only 3 are registered in the end(you know the story $500 without and $700 with papers) and this is an ongoing practice from an idividual that MAYBE there is something not quite ethical and legal going on and they should prosue the matter, (after all why even bother with a non breeding contract ). We can grumble and talk all we want but untill the governing body decides to put some teath into the law then all we are is shouting to the wind.
Just my oppinion.