Butchering in the field, is it legal????????

[sammy-j-peppers]

I have been doing a bit of reading and have a question about processing an animal.

The way I read the reg. it is not legal to process (butcher, cut and wrap) an animal in the field?

Is this correct?????

If so, why do I see so many pics for guys doing it?



Removing Evidence of Sex & Species

Evidence of species and sex may be removed
from the carcass or the hide of game:

4after it arrives at a person’s normal
dwelling place and is butchered and stored
there for consumption on the premises,

4after it is taken to a meat cutter or the
owner or operator of a cold storage plant, or

4after it has been inspected by a qualified
Compulsory Inspector.

[KB90]

Leave a piece of meat with the balls for gender and a piece with hair to identify the species. Perhaps the headgear as well depending on species.

And I don't think anyone is wrapping their meat in the bush, they are butchering/deboning it then putting it in garbage/game bags.

[KB90]

As long as they keep evidence of sex/species they should be good to go.

[bearhunter338-06]

As long as there is evidence of species and sex

[Kody94]

Heres one example.....

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Removing_the_edible_portions.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

Like many other parts of the regs, this one has always seemed pretty ambiguous to me.

I've wondered how a CO would react to an animal that was cut and wrapped in the field.....what would you leave evidence of sex attached to?...just leave a testicle attached to a little chunk of meat?

This especially goes for GO's that consume tonnes of game at their base camps....does that count as their normal place of residence?

I have heard of groups of guys that have consumed entire sheep on long horse pack trips....what does a CO expect to see....horns, cape and a testicle? ;)

[Fisher-Dude]

You'll get a ticket.

[Trapper D]

ya leave it attached to a piece of meat than wrap it, dont forget to mark which one its in . lmao sorry i couldnt resist, you cant do it

[RayHill]

How many times do we have to go over this? Use the search? What are antlers on? Males so that would be the sex. What kind of antlers are they Deer, moose.... that would be the species. So with this said you can leave the balls and fur at the gut pile and keep the antlers attached to the skull plate

[bearass]

I have deboned and ran in to c.o.'s on two different occasions and have never had a problem I kept proof of sex with the meat in a zip lock bag.
A conservation Officer knows how much meet should be on a deer or elk or moose ect.If you came out with less than what they would expect I would think you might run into problems. If you are deboneing to save your meat from warm temps outside than I can't see a problem with it.

[bugler]

I had what I think was a black bear grab one of my elk's deboned quarters overnight. Sure enough, next morning on the way out with what was left I was stopped by a CO. All I had was one quarter as the antlers and two hinds were at camp from packing the night before. Showed him some pics on my digital camera, said come by camp when he could, had no problems at all. He never did come for a look.

[270WIN]

How many times do we have to go over this? Use the search? What are antlers on? Males so that would be the sex. What kind of antlers are they Deer, moose.... that would be the species. So with this said you can leave the balls and fur at the gut pile and keep the antlers attached to the skull plate

I do beleive you have to have the antlers attached to the hole head. As few years back I had my moose quarters in the back of my truck and just the moose rack on my trailer. Got checked in chetwynd by co and he maid sure I left a tetical on one of the quaters along with some fur.

[Surrey Boy]

Keeping the POS attached to a quarter makes you legal. You could even take some meat off of that quarter and say it was damaged. The rest you may process in the field and still act within the regulations.

[lovemywinchester]

My buddy shot a deer on the Duffy on the way to Tunkwa lake for a few days. He ended up cutting and wrapping it there. On the way home they were stopped on the Duffy by a CO. My buddy was ticketed. He had the head but not attached. You may not butcher the animal until home. You will get a ticket, I think it was $125 or around there.

[spear]

As long as there is some meat attched to hide and still have proof of sex (antlers) I think it is ok.
I would assume you are talking about just de-boning and not complete butchering?

[lovemywinchester]

The meat was cut and wrapped. Only two balls for 30 packages. You can`t do it at all. Even if you come from a butcher you need the receipt or you can charged.

[4pointer]

I butcher almost all my game in the bush. We even split the meat amongst our group. We fill out forms(found in the reg or you can make your own) with the all the necessary info ie) date and location of kill(MU and nearest landmark), hunter name and addy, hunter number, species license number etc. I have been stopped numerous times by CO's(both in the bush and along hwy roadblocks) and NEVER had a problem. We have packaged in the past all our meat while we do the August moose hunt and its even in the deep freeze we bring along. As long as evidence of species, sex and/or antlers(as per regulations) are present, NO PROBLEMS. All vehicles carrying game meat must have the proper documents present and ready for inspection. RCMP give me a harder time, mainly because they dont really know whats going on, but when its a CO, I repeat, NO PROBLEMS.

[hunter1947]

This has always been a Grey area but as long as you keep with you what the hunting regs say in the book ,the book says a section of hair around the sex parts ,antlers if a bull ,sex parts your good to go and if you do this you should not have any problems.

I made an appointment with a CO 3 years ago to talk to him about this butchering in the bush he was a Sargent in Black Creek Vancouver Island he is retired séance then.

He said exactly what I said above and if you have all of what I said above I would drought that you would ever have a proublum...

[Deeboe]

How many times do we have to go over this? Use the search? What are antlers on? Males so that would be the sex. What kind of antlers are they Deer, moose.... that would be the species. So with this said you can leave the balls and fur at the gut pile and keep the antlers attached to the skull plateMight want to check the regs on that..... I've been inspected by C/O's every year we go elk hunting and each year the first question we get asked if we have game bagged is "are there sex parts attached and which bag?" Apparently just the antlers are not good enough for evidence of sex.....

[hunter1947]

Might want to check the regs on that..... I've been inspected by C/O's every year we go elk hunting and each year the first question we get asked if we have game bagged is "are there sex parts attached and which bag?" Apparently just the antlers are not good enough for evidence of sex.....

If you have the quarters then yes I agree you should leave the sex on the hinds ,if animals head is left on it and it is whole then you can remove the sex identity ,but if you have butchered up all then refer to my above post regarding on this thread..

[Fisher-Dude]

How many times do we have to go over this? Use the search? What are antlers on? Males so that would be the sex. What kind of antlers are they Deer, moose.... that would be the species. So with this said you can leave the balls and fur at the gut pile and keep the antlers attached to the skull plate

Ticket, right there.

[Darksith]

Its all up to the CO, the bottom line is if they wanna be dicks, then they will give you a ticket for butchering the animal before you get home. That being said most of them are fairly reasonable and unless you give them a hard time you'll probably be OK. The regs say you can't butcher until you get home, its just that simple, but its one of those rules that can be bent a bit it appears.

[hunter1947]

Its all up to the CO, the bottom line is if they wanna be dicks, then they will give you a ticket for butchering the animal before you get home. That being said most of them are fairly reasonable and unless you give them a hard time you'll probably be OK. The regs say you can't butcher until you get home, its just that simple, but its one of those rules that can be bent a bit it appears.

Agreed you are so right..

[Spuddge]

Heres one example.....

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Removing_the_edible_portions.jpg (javascript:;)

That's my picture, that's a black bear carcass we always debone our bears in the field and keep the entire hide, head etc. We divide the meat up equally in ziplocks, perfectly legal.

[Craven200]

I always find it amusing that the CO is a "dick" if he issues a ticket for something you did wrong. I agree each CO can use their discretion in every situation and some may act more reasonable than others.

[jml11]

How many times do we have to go over this? Use the search? What are antlers on? Males so that would be the sex. What kind of antlers are they Deer, moose.... that would be the species. So with this said you can leave the balls and fur at the gut pile and keep the antlers attached to the skull plate

You to have evidence of sex and species naturally attached to the carcass...just having antlers on skull plate probably doesn't qualify as being naturally attached to the carcass...bringing out the entire head....?? Leaving a nut with some fur on it is pretty simple and easy to do...rather be safe than sorry myself.

From regs:

4Anyone who possesses or transports the
carcass or part of the carcass of the following
animals must leave naturally attached
to the carcass or one part of the carcass in
the person’s possession the following listed
parts:
(1) For elk, moose, and deer:
(a) If the animal is male, either
(i) that portion of the head which
bears the antlers, OR
(ii) both a testicle or part of the penis,
AND the animal’s tail or another
readily identifiable part of the hide
not less than 6 cm2.
(b) If the animal is female, either
(i) that portion of the head which in
males normally bears antlers, OR
(ii) both a portion of the udder or teats,
AND the animal’s tail or another
readily identifiable part of the hide
not less than 6 cm2.

[bighornbob]

You to have evidence of sex and species naturally attached to the carcass...just having antlers on skull plate probably doesn't qualify as being naturally attached to the carcass...bringing out the entire head....?? Leaving a nut with some fur on it is pretty simple and easy to do...rather be safe than sorry myself.

From regs:

4Anyone who possesses or transports the
carcass or part of the carcass of the following
animals must leave naturally attached
to the carcass or one part of the carcass in
the person’s possession the following listed
parts:
(1) For elk, moose, and deer:
(a) If the animal is male, either
(i) that portion of the head which
bears the antlers, OR
(ii) both a testicle or part of the penis,
AND the animal’s tail or another
readily identifiable part of the hide
not less than 6 cm2.
(b) If the animal is female, either
(i) that portion of the head which in
males normally bears antlers, OR
(ii) both a portion of the udder or teats,
AND the animal’s tail or another
readily identifiable part of the hide
not less than 6 cm2.


The head is part of the carcass. So antlers attached to a head is proof of sex. It does not say that head has to be attached to a quater or another large piece (see bold above) or one part of the carcass.

A peice of hair attched to said head would be enough for species identification.

BHB

[evhunter]

There are many issues found in the regulations that are subject to interpretation. And by looking over the posts in this thread, there are many opinions, and there will be; by hunters, COs, Crown Council, and Judges. If your actions are reasonable and you've followed your interpretation of the rules and regulations, you have a case for your actions and intent being lawful. There will be as many opinions on regulations by individual COs as by hunters. Good discussion in this thread! It shows we just want to do the right thing.

[quadrakid]

WE have had some epic threads on this subject before,If you don,t want a hassle and or fine then you best leave the jewels attatched if you remove the head.

[pescado]

We went thru a game check with 2 elk. Both quartered, racks there. CO made us find the quarters with the evidence of sex on them. They were there, took a while going thru the game bags to find them. I always ribbon the quarters with the evidence of sex on them now. He wasn't going to be easy on us if we didn't have the evidence of sex on those quarters, no way.

[jml11]

The head is part of the carcass. So antlers attached to a head is proof of sex. It does not say that head has to be attached to a quater or another large piece (see bold above) or one part of the carcass.

A peice of hair attched to said head would be enough for species identification.

BHB

Agreed but are antlers and skull plate only considered part of the carcass? Not criticizing just analyzing because I am curious as to what defines being part of the carcass. Based on some of the comments it seems CO's have ignored the antlers all together and are looking for sex on a quarter. I do know someone who was ticketed for accidently cutting off the balls from the carcass, even though they had the antlers (skull plate) accompanied with the 4 quarters...I guess what I'm getting at, is how is having antlers with skull plate only any different that having the balls seperated from the carcass but still transported with it?

[Gateholio]

Fall of 2009, PG66 and his buddy Matt were on one side of a ridge, I was on the other side. Matt and I both shot deer. They boned out Matts, then came to find me, about an hour later. We cut up my deer and decided to all go out the same way to one truck, then pick up the other down the road. We got to the truck about the same time as the CO's did, and started BSing and checked out HL's. The deer were cut up, in backpacks and the heads clearly visible. They asked if the nuts were attached and both of us realized we hadn't saved them. We got a warning.

The problem is that the rules and definitions of CARCASS are ambiguous.

[bighornbob]

Agreed but are antlers and skull plate only considered part of the carcass? Not criticizing just analyzing because I am curious as to what defines being part of the carcass. Based on some of the comments it seems CO's have ignored the antlers all together and are looking for sex on a quarter. I do know someone who was ticketed for accidently cutting off the balls from the carcass, even though they had the antlers (skull plate) accompanied with the 4 quarters...I guess what I'm getting at, is how is having antlers with skull plate only any different that having the balls seperated from the carcass but still transported with it?

Good question. No where does it say how big said piece of carcass has to be. I for one would leave the whole head with antlers attached.

Even leaving the balls attached, how big does that piece of carcass have to be? No where does it say a "quater". Would ballls attached to a 1 pound piece of hind quater still be legal? What about a 5 or 10 pound piece?

BHB

[bighornbob]

The problem is that the rules and definitions of CARCASS are ambiguous.

That is the problem!!! The CO's are only interpreting what they think is correct. As we have seen one CO says its OK and another says its not, that is where the confusion starts. I guess it will continue until the definition of carcass gets cleared up or someone takes it to court and gets a judges ruling.

BHB

[hunter1947]

That's my picture, that's a black bear carcass we always debone our bears in the field and keep the entire hide, head etc. We divide the meat up equally in ziplocks, perfectly legal.


This picture looks all familiar from what I have done in the past just keep a portion of the hair around the sex parts in a zip lock bag and you should be fine.

[KB90]

This picture looks all familiar from what I have done in the past just keep a portion of the hair around the sex parts in a zip lock bag and you should be fine.

Don't need sex parts on a bear.

[evhunter]

A different angle, when you cancel your species license, you cut antlered or antlerless, not buck/doe, bull/cow. Technically, antlers or lack of are normally but not always an indication of sex. I've shot an antlered whitetail doe, male calf elk, and I know of others who have shot antlerless bucks in December, thinking they were does. Evidence of sex can "only" (most easily) be definitively proven by showing at least part of the genitalia. Leave the nuts on or just the scrotum,... patch of hair and evidence of sex all in one neat little package.

[steel_ram]

So what's to stop some poacher from using the rack, or balls from one animal to transport an illegal animal? (it's been done) Bags of meat could be anything. When somethings suspicious it's tough enough matching quarters and head without some heavy science, never mind loose meat.

[jml11]

That is the problem!!! The CO's are only interpreting what they think is correct. As we have seen one CO says its OK and another says its not, that is where the confusion starts. I guess it will continue until the definition of carcass gets cleared up or someone takes it to court and gets a judges ruling.BHB


I guess that is what I was getting at as well...what defines carcass...

There is no definition in the wildlife act, all it states is:

Possession of carcass

36 (1) A person who possesses the carcass of any wildlife, whether or not the carcass has been divided, without leaving attached the parts required by regulation to be left attached, commits an offence.
(2) Subsection (1) only applies until the earlier of the following:
(a) the carcass is given to a meatcutter or the owner or operator of a cold storage plant to be recorded in accordance with section 71,
(b) the carcass arrives at the person's normal dwelling place and is butchered and stored there for consumption on the premises, or
(c) the carcass is presented to an employee of the ministry for which the minister is responsible or other person specified by the Lieutenant Governor in Council for inspection.

[MichelD]

"Don't need sex parts on a bear."

That is true, BUT C.O. Chris Doyle from Squamish stopped me up there and examined a skinned quartered bear I had in the truck and demanded to see evidence of the sex of the animal.

I said that wasn't required by law.

He replied that he wanted to see if I had shot a male or female because he was interested to see if I had shot a female with cubs.

As it turns out, earlier that day when Jack and I had been skinning out the bear I had said "let's just leave the penis and balls on this piece in case."

So I showed officer Doyle the bear pieces. Each one had the paws attached with more than the required square centimetres of fur, plus I had the head and on one of the rear quarters, there were Mr. Bear's penis and testicles.

And away we went.

[steel_ram]

A bit of a twist in regulations confusion, but is it not illegal to be in possession of bear genetalia?

[lovemywinchester]

A bit of a twist in regulations confusion, but is it not illegal to be in possession of bear genetalia?
Only if you are Chinese.

[KB90]

A bit of a twist in regulations confusion, but is it not illegal to be in possession of bear genetalia?

No? ......

[Stone Sheep Steve]

That is the problem!!! The CO's are only interpreting what they think is correct. As we have seen one CO says its OK and another says its not, that is where the confusion starts. I guess it will continue until the definition of carcass gets cleared up or someone takes it to court and gets a judges ruling.

BHB


A different angle, when you cancel your species license, you cut antlered or antlerless, not buck/doe, bull/cow. Technically, antlers or lack of are normally but not always an indication of sex. I've shot an antlered whitetail doe, male calf elk, and I know of others who have shot antlerless bucks in December, thinking they were does. Evidence of sex can "only" (most easily) be definitively proven by showing at least part of the genitalia. Leave the nuts on or just the scrotum,... patch of hair and evidence of sex all in one neat little package.


So BHB....what did you do with the antlered doe that you shot?? No doubt you left as much as possible on the animal for transport???

SSS

[WesHarm]

isnt it only illegal to sell it..... just like its illegal to sell any part?

[308Lover]

So you can shoot an illegal doe and put the cut up meat in a bag along with that of a young muley buck (only the best meat of course) and with the antlers intact and some fur/testicles with the meat you think this is OK? If you get away with butchering in the field, you shouldn't. This kind of crap makes a co's life miserable.Why do we have these questions every year? Someone is always pushing the limits of the regs and they usually whine when caught. Protect yourself and our game (from poachers) by following the regs. Sheep hunters debone meat and carry it out with their capes and horns. Good on them for the effort. I've yet to see them cube it and bag it first. Give me a break.

[steel_ram]

From the hunting regs:


4

The BC regulation forbids the possession,

trafficking, importing and exporting of bear
galls, including any part or derivative of the gall
bladder, and genitalia. It also bans importing,
exporting or trafficking in bear paws separated
from the carcass or hide, although possession
of bear paws is still permitted to allow for
personal and ceremonial use.
4


Hunters are not committing an offense

if they remove the gall bladder from the
carcass and leave the gall bladder at the kill
site, or, if they move the bear from the kill
site and they, within 48 hours, dispose of the
gut pile including the gall bladder.

Crappy cut and paste, but it does say "possession".

[Stone Sheep Steve]

A bit of a twist in regulations confusion, but is it not illegal to be in possession of bear genetalia?


From the regs.....
"

NOTE: It is not an offence to possess bear
genitalia attached to the hide or carcass, and,
after it is no longer needed on a bear carcass
as evidence of sex, the genitalia may be
removed from the hide at the above locations
if immediately destroyed and disposed
of at that location. Leaving evidence of
species and sex on the carcass will not spoil
or in any way contaminate the meat."

SSS

[steel_ram]

Thanks for the clarification SSS.

[WesHarm]

So i can throw them out in the trash when I'm done? that sounds kinda rediculous.... "You cant have the genetailia, well you can till its home... then once your in your home you need to get rid of it right away!" ....sounds like alot of hop scotch with hoops to me >.<

[bighornbob]

So BHB....what did you do with the antlered doe that you shot?? No doubt you left as much as possible on the animal for transport???

SSS

The tag was cancelled as antlered as it was antlered. Actually the tag was cut before we even knew it was a doe:) In that case as with most deer I bring them home whole (those ones were skinned up to he head).

But in the case of the moose I got a few years ago, I brought home all 4 quaters skinned out (except a small patch of hide near the elbow). A piece of hide was on each quater. A bag of neck meat, the back straps and the tenderloins. The whole head skin and all was also brought home as that was the part of the carcass that had sex evidence (antlers) naturally attached on it.

I would very much like to see a CO argue in court that the whole head is not part of the carcass:)

BHB

[Fisher-Dude]

I would very much like to see a CO argue in court that the whole head is not part of the carcass:)

BHB

I'd rather leave the nuts and some hair on a quarter and stay outta court. ;)

[blaster]

i disagree with leaving the balls with the gut bag. On my first moose trip back in the day we got lucky and got one. We were use to CO's on VI and left the balls at gut pile.
We were stopped at the game check at Cashe Creek and the CO said we could have got the antlers from a garbage dump and fined us 300. Since then I leave balls attached and hair on every piece.

[cruiser]

I was stopped at the Nov long weekend game check in Osoyoos a few years ago. Had a small whitetail buck, skinned it except left the tail, had both balls attached, whole carcass in large game bag. Head was removed, but I had it along but it was burried under a bunch of gear. CO said 'where's the head?' I said 'what for, it's clearly a whitetail, balls attached'. He made me unload my gear and dig out the bucks head :confused:.

Butchering in the field is asking for trouble. No way to prove the balls and head came from which carcass, like if a poacher shoots a tough old bull and the young cow its with, says the butchered cow meat belongs with the antlers and the balls in a ziplock bag.

[dana]

Because of an epic thread about this topic last year, I packed out both the nuts and antlers attached to the head on my 2010 buck. There was a so-called official email posted up in that thread from someone in Victoria that said you needed both nuts and antlers. In years past I went with the defination in the regs and only packed out the antlers/head or antlers/skull plate. Last week at my daughters CORE course, I was chatting with one of our local CO's who I know is a backpack hunter like myself. I told him about the so-called email and he had never heard of it. He said it is either/or, you don't need to pack out both. If you are hunting during a point configuration season, then you must have the antlers. He told me skull plate meets the definition of naturally attached. Sooo, the moral of the story, don't listen to internet rumors. Talk to a CO and get the answer yourself.

[Jelvis]

You know as far as butchering in the field goes, it's the best place to do it, leave the waste for the local animals to eat, instead of the land fill in a city.
Leave the bones and guts and hide in the bush, only bring out the meat with what ever proof is required by law.
Jello Pudding

[bearass]

So what do you do when you go hunting to Saskatchewan and the M.O.E. doesn't want you to bring bones or hide back to the province of B.C.?

[Farmer001]

Anyone who possesses or transports the
carcass or part of the carcass of the following
animals must leave naturally attached
to the carcass or one part of the carcass in
the person’s possession the following listed
parts:
(1) For elk, moose, and deer:
(a) If the animal is male, either
(i) that portion of the head which
bears the antlers, OR
(ii) both a testicle or part of the penis,
AND the animal’s tail or another
readily identifiable part of the hide
not less than 6 cm2.
(b) If the animal is female, either
(i) that portion of the head which in
males normally bears antlers, OR
(ii) both a portion of the udder or teats,
AND the animal’s tail or another
readily identifiable part of the hide

not less than 6 cm2.
(Quoted from JM11)

Talked to the CO about importing deer and this pretty much sums up the discussion. De-bone and follow instructions, leave as much evidence of species and sex attached as possible. Skullplate to be washed in bleach solution also as per regs.

[Kody94]

Yes, but no-one has answered my question....what if you are on a 20+ day horse packing trip, shoot one sheep in the first week and you and your 3 buddies eat the whole damn sheep except the horns and cape over the next couple weeks? Is that illegal? I can't see why it would be (the meat would probably have spoiled otherwise), but how do you prove to the CO that you removed all edible portions?

I am sure that much of the meat from animals shot by clients never makes it back to the "normal dwelling place" of the hunter....how do GO's handle this?

[hunter1947]

Yes, but no-one has answered my question....what if you are on a 20+ day horse packing trip, shoot one sheep in the first week and you and your 3 buddies eat the whole damn sheep except the horns and cape over the next couple weeks? Is that illegal? I can't see why it would be (the meat would probably have spoiled otherwise), but how do you prove to the CO that you removed all edible portions?

I am sure that much of the meat from animals shot by clients never makes it back to the "normal dwelling place" of the hunter....how do GO's handle this?

Kody94 very good piont on your post and I am sure that this does happen in some hunts..

[hunter1947]

I will keep doing the same thing I have done in some hunts in my past when I have to butcher up an animal in the field when the temperatures are very hot I won't drive 14 hours and hunt and shoot an animal to see the meat go to waist ,I am darn sure if you do all you can to show the CO that you saved antlers and hair around the sex parts cow or male and you put it in the deep freezer in a zip lock bag you would be good to go in the CO books.

I don't make a habit of doing cutting up our game meat in the bush the last time we did this was 8 years ago on Aug 17 2003 cut up a moose Hudson hope area..

If you want to be safe if you are going to butcher up an animal keep the two top parts of the hind quarters with a testicle on each hind quarter and leave a section of this part in your freezer for prof of sex cow or bull deer etc ,thats my thoughts and I will stick with it when I have to cut up meat and put it in the freezer in the field early season..

[4pointer]

Yes, but no-one has answered my question....what if you are on a 20+ day horse packing trip, shoot one sheep in the first week and you and your 3 buddies eat the whole damn sheep except the horns and cape over the next couple weeks? Is that illegal? I can't see why it would be (the meat would probably have spoiled otherwise), but how do you prove to the CO that you removed all edible portions?

I am sure that much of the meat from animals shot by clients never makes it back to the "normal dwelling place" of the hunter....how do GO's handle this?


Well, if this is the case, take a dump, save it in a bag, and give it to him. They'll anaylize it and find out for themselves. Nothing more you can do at this point. Gonna be a long process, but hey, nothing more you can do!:mrgreen:

[bridger]

the last time i was in the yukon the guides de boned the entire sheep and took pictures of all the meat laid out on a tarp. we ate about half of the sheep and when we did the compulsory inspection we gave the pictures to the co standard practice in the yukon we were told.

[Gateholio]

Because of an epic thread about this topic last year, I packed out both the nuts and antlers attached to the head on my 2010 buck. There was a so-called official email posted up in that thread from someone in Victoria that said you needed both nuts and antlers. In years past I went with the defination in the regs and only packed out the antlers/head or antlers/skull plate. Last week at my daughters CORE course, I was chatting with one of our local CO's who I know is a backpack hunter like myself. I told him about the so-called email and he had never heard of it. He said it is either/or, you don't need to pack out both. If you are hunting during a point configuration season, then you must have the antlers. He told me skull plate meets the definition of naturally attached. Sooo, the moral of the story, don't listen to internet rumors. Talk to a CO and get the answer yourself.

Except we got warnings in 2009 for backpacking out 2 deer with whole heads/antlers and 4 skinned quarters, no nuts. Warning was for "fail to leave on evidence of sex"

This is why a clear definition of CARCASS is needed.



Yes, but no-one has answered my question....what if you are on a 20+ day horse packing trip, shoot one sheep in the first week and you and your 3 buddies eat the whole damn sheep except the horns and cape over the next couple weeks? Is that illegal? I can't see why it would be (the meat would probably have spoiled otherwise), but how do you prove to the CO that you removed all edible portions?

I am sure that much of the meat from animals shot by clients never makes it back to the "normal dwelling place" of the hunter....how do GO's handle this?


the last time i was in the yukon the guides de boned the entire sheep and took pictures of all the meat laid out on a tarp. we ate about half of the sheep and when we did the compulsory inspection we gave the pictures to the co standard practice in the yukon we were told.

Bridger answered the same as I was going to answer...Take pictures.

As for clients of GO's the regs dont' specify it has to be the hunters dwelling place, just a dwelling place or meat cutter. So delivered to the outfitter residence is sufficient.

[Slee]

Does anyone on here know a CO they could ask about this topic?

[bcbrez]

If your bring an animal home from a hunt in Alberta back to B.C. doesn't your animal have to be deboned and cut up now to reduce the chance of spreading CWD. Thought I had seen that in the regs but I can't find a copy at work.

[Slee]

I found a Meat Science text book that has some interesting info.

For cattle and domestic sheep, the head is not included in the definition of carcass but is included for pigs. It all depends on how the animal is butchered. Because the head, feet, and skin are left on the trunk of a pig while gutted, they are included as part of the carcass.....


CARCASS: No legal or regulated definition.
Commentary: (Source: NAMP): The dressed, slaughtered animal, containing two "sides".


From a New York State regulation.....


1. the body of an animal killed for meat. The head, the legs below the knees and hocks, the tail, the skin and most of the viscera are removed. The kidneys are left in and in most instances the body is split down the middle through the sternum and the vertebral bodies. Pig carcasses are dehaired (see below). Bird carcasses are not split; the feathers are removed after scalding but the skin is not removed and no viscera are left in place. In New York dressed poultry the viscera are left in.

[J_T]

Bearass, not quite. While I agree with you, CO's don't. In our early season, with a cooler in camp, we take extreme care with our animals. Leaving all required parts nearby (head, tail, nuts) and even during an any animal season, we have been subject to what I consider, unreasonable discretion.

Probably because we're bowhunting and the CO's are buddies with FD. JK

[BigfishCanada]

I once took the head off a doe, skinned a QTR'd, left a small nipple on to prove it was a doe. Was told if I left my cabin to take home id be ticketed. I think you get a different answer from every person you talk with? I was pissed, I wanted it QTR'd to fit in coolers. I made the case that the cabin was a place of residence, too many judge and jury's.Oh ya, kept the head in the truck for additional proof, had pictures etc etc.

[evhunter]

If your bring an animal home from a hunt in Alberta back to B.C. doesn't your animal have to be deboned and cut up now to reduce the chance of spreading CWD. Thought I had seen that in the regs but I can't find a copy at work.

For any cervids (deer species) brought back to BC from anywhere outside of the province; Alberta, Saskatchewan, the U.S. etc... refer to the BC Hunting Regulations. No "raw" hides, no skull other than the skull plate that is fleshed and bleached, no spine, no brain,no lymph nodes, no hooves etc.

The problem was, we were finding carcasses dumped in the BC bush that had originated from outside the province. Hunters would bring home their deer, butcher, then dump the remaining scraps on a road side. CWD contamination is more than probable if this continues.

[Slee]

Here is something a little more relevant to Canada.......


http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/FW/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_168766.html

Restricts the possession of certain higher risk carcass parts (http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/FW/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_168766.html#possession) (e.g., brain, spinal column, antlers, etc.) of moose and caribou that were killed outside the province. This regulation is the same as the existing regulation that applies to the carcasses of all other members of the deer family which came into effect in 2005.

To me, this reads as, antlers are "part" of a carcass. So the antlers attached to the skull plate is all that should be need to be proof of sex...

[bcbrez]

For any cervids (deer species) brought back to BC from anywhere outside of the province; Alberta, Saskatchewan, the U.S. etc... refer to the BC Hunting Regulations. No "raw" hides, no skull other than the skull plate that is fleshed and bleached, no spine, no brain,no lymph nodes, no hooves etc.

The problem was, we were finding carcasses dumped in the BC bush that had originated from outside the province. Hunters would bring home their deer, butcher, then dump the remaining scraps on a road side. CWD contamination is more than probable if this continues.

Right. So if shoot a deer on the last day of my Alberta mulie hunt this year I have to process it in the field before I bring it home. Is this correct? If so I guess I'll have to put a jug of bleach in the truck because I'm not leaving it for someone else to process and making a second trip to come get it later.

[bighornbob]

Does anyone on here know a CO they could ask about this topic?

Thats part of the problem. Each CO seems to have his way. Ask a CO on the island and you may get the answer "a head with the body is fine" . While a CO in the koots gives you a fine for the same thing.

BHB

[lilhoss]

Does anyone on here know a CO they could ask about this topic?
This is the problem with these type of threads.Everyone has their interpretation of the Laws,how they apply to them,and all the CO's are bad guys.If you are not sure about the Hunting laws,contact the CO's office in Victoria,get clarification before going hunting,and understand what you are doing out there.I've emailed them several times on all sorts of topics.Had responses well within a week,clear,precise understanding on anything.Drop them an email and they will give you the answer,without speculation.
mailto:conservation.officer.service@gov.bc.ca (conservation.officer.service@gov.bc.ca)

[hunter1947]

This is the problem with these type of threads.Everyone has their interpretation of the Laws,how they apply to them,and all the CO's are bad guys.If you are not sure about the Hunting laws,contact the CO's office in Victoria,get clarification before going hunting,and understand what you are doing out there.I've emailed them several times on all sorts of topics.Had responses well within a week,clear,precise understanding on anything.Drop them an email and they will give you the answer,without speculation.
mailto:conservation.officer.service@gov.bc.ca (conservation.officer.service@gov.bc.ca)

I did talk to a CO he was a sargent I talked to him 2 years ago when he was still a CO he is retired now, if you read an earler post on this thread of mine you will see what he told me about cutting meat up in ther field...

[WesHarm]

is it that bad to leave the balls attached? then at least you are DEFINATELY safe. either way.

[Tenacious Billy]

Because of an epic thread about this topic last year, I packed out both the nuts and antlers attached to the head on my 2010 buck. There was a so-called official email posted up in that thread from someone in Victoria that said you needed both nuts and antlers. In years past I went with the defination in the regs and only packed out the antlers/head or antlers/skull plate. Last week at my daughters CORE course, I was chatting with one of our local CO's who I know is a backpack hunter like myself. I told him about the so-called email and he had never heard of it. He said it is either/or, you don't need to pack out both. If you are hunting during a point configuration season, then you must have the antlers. He told me skull plate meets the definition of naturally attached. Sooo, the moral of the story, don't listen to internet rumors. Talk to a CO and get the answer yourself.

Problem with that is that each CO can have their own interpretation of the laws and how they read........I'd say you did the right thing to begin with - you're bringing the head anyways and for the extra weight it might add, I'd just leave the nuts on too.

[Fisher-Dude]

Bearass, not quite. While I agree with you, CO's don't. In our early season, with a cooler in camp, we take extreme care with our animals. Leaving all required parts nearby (head, tail, nuts) and even during an any animal season, we have been subject to what I consider, unreasonable discretion.

Probably because we're bowhunting and the CO's are buddies with FD. JK

I taught "Mr Magoo" everything he knows. ;)

[dana]

Again I will stand by what I have said in previous threads. If you are following the regs which have been posted here as "either/or". A CO gives you a ticket for obeying the law, then you need to actually dispute that ticket and not 'suck it up' like some on here would have you do. They changed the regs a few years back to clarify this very issue. In my mind, it is an easy one to figure out. Either the head/antlers or nuts unless it is a horn/antler special season. 4 point or better mule deer, you better have the antlers/head. Full curl ram, you better have the horns/head. But if you shoot a doe under LEH and decide to debone her using the gutless method, leave the sex organs attached to a quarter and leave the head at the killsite. Perfectly legal and saves a lot of pain and agony of backpacking out useless weight.

[crazy ducker]

I asked a co friend and he said if the animal is hole then a antler is okay if it quartered the proof of sex must be on one quarter, he said that when quartered, there is no proof that that antler came from that animal you could have shot it a couple days before or a friend shot it and that animal in there with no proof of sex on it is a doe or an illlegal animal

[Tenacious Billy]

I asked a co friend and he said if the animal is hole then a antler is okay if it quartered the proof of sex must be on one quarter, he said that when quartered, there is no proof that that antler came from that animal you could have shot it a couple days before or a friend shot it and that animal in there with no proof of sex on it is a doe or an illlegal animal

A different CO with a different view on the regs.........weird.

[evhunter]

Right. So if shoot a deer on the last day of my Alberta mulie hunt this year I have to process it in the field before I bring it home. Is this correct? If so I guess I'll have to put a jug of bleach in the truck because I'm not leaving it for someone else to process and making a second trip to come get it later.

Process it according to the guidelines in the BC regulations, yes. That's exactly what I did this past fall, a small jug of bleach in the dry box. If you plan to keep a cape, then it has to be completely fleshed and salted at the very least!

[Slee]

Hello XXXX,

You are correct in that there is no definition of carcass in the regulations of the Wildlife Act, and as such it is open to interpretation. There are many varying definitions of carcass available, some of these definitions include the entire body of a dead animal, but many also refer to the body of an animal killed for food after it is dressed (removal of head, hooves, offal, etc)). The Conservation Officer Service enforces this regulation interpreting that a detached head is not considered to be a part of the carcass.

Regards,

Stephen MacIver

[ElectricDyck]

Seems like an easy thing to clarify in the next regs.

[boxhitch]

If every reg was spelled out so that there was no confusion for anyone, can you imagine the pile of paper that would be ?
We have the synopsis at hand, a handy brief reference. good enough for most hunters

One has to consider what the particular reg is trying to do.
In the case of the sex/carcass/species issue, the CO or whoever , wants to be able to tell what he/she is looking at at a game check, wherever that may occur.

So they find four legs and a bag of meat with a head and antlers.
The species is covered off by the patch of hair on each leg, the sex by a ball or teat. Reason says you can't have evidence of sex on the front quarters or legs, but if the hair matches most inspectors would be happy, all should be satisfied.
So now hes got four moose quarters or legs, two nuts a set of antlers and a punched tag. All is good , have a nice day.
This isn't an issue for probably 98% of the hunters in BC.

But just like a traffic check, if the Man wants to find something wrong he will.

[boxhitch]

Rules in BC a pretty relaxed, and that is a good thing. Keep messing with it and we will wind up with rules like Alaska or the Yukon


Yes, but no-one has answered my question....what if you are on a 20+ day horse packing trip, shoot one sheep in the first week and you and your 3 buddies eat the whole damn sheep except the horns and cape over the next couple weeks? Is that illegal? I can't see why it would be (the meat would probably have spoiled otherwise), but how do you prove to the CO that you removed all edible portions?

I am sure that much of the meat from animals shot by clients never makes it back to the "normal dwelling place" of the hunter....how do GO's handle this?Like suggested , you will probably have pictures , and four eye-witnesses. If the CO wants to go to court in a case like that, then that is what will happen. But most are reasonable enough to realize the situation.
It would be a good idea to go to the first Co office after hitting the highway and do the CI so it is in hand in case of any checks closer to home. Get a note regarding the lack of meat, a signed statement that you consumed the meat or that the Griz consumed the meat.

[hunter1947]

A video clip of all is what I would take if I was in this predicament..

[Bowzone_Mikey]

I didnt read the whole thread ... cause ... i really cant belive that there is this much discussion about it ... But I want to point out that ... having antlers doent mean that its a male ... I have seen a few WT and Muley Does packin head gear ....
Its not common ... but its not unheard of ... about as common as Albino so I am told .... Most COs will cut you a break because the seasons are antlered and antlerless... ... that said ... you must take proof of sex with you ... headgear does not count as proof of sex you need the twig and berries or the Teat depending upon what you have drawn/shot

[Foxton Gundogs]

How many times do we have to go over this? Use the search? What are antlers on? Males so that would be the sex. What kind of antlers are they Deer, moose.... that would be the species. So with this said you can leave the balls and fur at the gut pile and keep the antlers attached to the skull plate

Not trying to open up debate but I have been told by 2 seperate COs that antlers do NOT constitute proof of sex as there are genetic rareities where females have antlers tho not common apparently it can happen.(and I am not speeking about caribou) However the regs state season as antler and antlerless so regardless of sex antlers attached SHOULD be all the proof you need. ?????????