Sleeping Bag

[Neff]

What bag works for you?
Looked at a Hotcore T-200 that looked good for a back pack
Stone Sheep hunt.
-10 C and 3 lbs

[snareman1234]

This is what I use now

http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=795&p_id=1121792

Very warm, and I pair it with an exped downmat7, so I would certainly sleep in that bag comfortably at -10. And colder than that I am not usually backpacking, and I use a -40 heavier down bag from cabelas.

The montbell stuffs sooo small its unreal. My bag and my mat don't come close to filling up the bottom of packs that have a spot designed for just a sleeping bag.

I have an E-Vent compression sack made by sea to sky for my bag, so it will be guaranteed dry too.

[BiG Boar]

Go-lite adrenalin is my new bag. Under 2 lbs and slightly waterproof. Goes to -7C.

[Devilbear]

For BC alpine hunting, my first choice is an Integral Designs North Twin, a Primaloft bag and mine is a "broad-regular" model that weighs 3#12* and is warm to rougly 10*F. The Primaloft is really reliable in rainy, wet weather and dries rapidly in the mountains by just body heat, which no down bag will do, if wetted.

If, I use a down bag of which I have had quite a number of the best available since the late '60s, I prefer the Valandre Shocking Blue, the finest down bag I have ever used and one which weighs 3# and is warm to -15, at least. I prefer down's comfort over Primaloft, but, the safety factor in solo mountain hunting is greater with the Pl.

[ianwuzhere]

on a sheep hunt in say august in northern bc or even yukon- what temps should be desired with weight obviously on mind-under 3 pound range?
-7c be good enuf??

[Devilbear]

I have seen it well below freezing in the Musqwa in August and close to 0*F in the Kootenays in early September. This obsession with the absolutely lightest bag, etc. that one can find is a bit foolish, IMO, I recommend packing a bag that has a temp. rating 10*F colder than the lowest you think you will encounter.

I started overnight and multiday backpacking in 1964 and have spent a lot of my life sleeping in the mountains in every month of the year all over BC. I have learned a few things the "hard way" and am very particular about my sleeping gear, pack and boots and these are the crucial pieces of gear for serious mountain trekking; you must have this down before you worry about optics, guns or the latest super-duper camo, stretchy "kewl" hunting clothing and what electronics to buy.

[pescado]

I use alot of Taiga gear for things like sleeping bags, jackets and base layers. M.E.C also has good outdoor gear.

[digger dogger]

I have a Western Mountaineering bag, -7 Dryloft.. It's a good bag and I've seen -2 in it and had to put my head inside to be comfortable. Trust me, and listen to the people who tell you to store your down bag in a big sack. I left mine compressed(for months) and am buying a Taiga, One Thousand Nights with Dryloft..
Get a bag liner if your worried about being cold, they work.
STORE YOUR DOWN BAG UNCOMPRESSED.

[ianwuzhere]

ive never had a down bag before- what is the reason to store your down bad uncompressed if gonna store for long time??
i see some bags and they say they are rated to like -5c etc-look like they would be good for +5. Do u guys prefer the mummy style bags??

[steelheadSABO]

No Mec garbage here
I use a Woods, It is canvas with a wool lining good for -40 good enuff

[pnbrock]

you cant pack a woods further than from truck to tent .

[steelheadSABO]

The extra weight and mass builds muscle :)
But on second thought I could pull out the wool liner and it would suit me fine.

[Devilbear]

Yeah, those old Woods canvas shelled bags are really the "best" for backpacking for Stone's rams, Mulies and so forth......geezuz......

Taiga gear is mediocre and most of their designs are both dated and heavy, relative to what is available today for the serious backpack hunter; MEC has SOME decent gear and some mediocre stuff, you simply have to know enough to be able to look for the good stuff amid the trendy urban gear, a major part of their market share.

Western Mountaineering is among the very finest down gear made anywhere and the bags are top choices for those who prefer down and are willing to accept the limitations it has in wet conditions. At present, WM and Valandre are the only down bags I will buy as the superb ID down bags are no more and I think that FF has declined in quality in the past decade.

Nobody has yet made what I consider the ultimate alpine hunting bag, I have some ideas and may call Jason at Kuiu next winter and see if he is interested in making some bags specifically for hunting, we could use that, IMHO.

[swampthing]

[QUOTE=ianwuzhere;892367]ive never had a down bag before- what is the reason to store your down bad uncompressed if gonna store for long time??
i see some bags and they say they are rated to like -5c etc-look like they would be good for +5. Do u guys prefer the mummy style bags??[/QUOT
You have to store it uncompressed so it doesnt loose its loft!

[todbartell]

Sierra Designs Vapor 15. Down filled, 1 lb 15oz, rated to -9c

haven't used it yet, but it seems nice :)

[Neff]

The Vapor 15 looks nice....it also looks outside of my budget. Any suggestion on bags under $150?

[bigwhiteys]

on a sheep hunt in say august in northern bc or even yukon- what temps should be desired with weight obviously on mind-under 3 pound range?
-7c be good enuf??


For an August sheep hunt you'll survive with a bag that will go down to -7c. I would want a good insulating sleeping pad though, Thermarest or Exped. My old Sierra Designs synthetic (primaloft) was rated to -7c and left me shivering my a$$ off on more than a few cool august mornings in sheep country...

Made the switch to down with my Valandre Bloody Mary (rated -9c) and it was a whole different ball game... The BM along with the Exped downmat 7 is like sleeping in a 5 star hotel in the middle of the mountains and the entire setup only weighs slightly over 3lbs.

So many people seem to forget it's quite easy to get away with a lesser sleeping bag in the mountains, just have a better sleeping pad and be prepared to sleep in your long underwear or some kind of baselayer and you are good to go for colder conditions... It's not ideal (you can get sweaty/clammy) but you'll probably be OK.

Carl

[BromBones]

I'm still using some old ASolo synthetic bag that I mooched off my brother after I lost a whack of my gear when my shop burned down in '08.:-D

I haven't froze to death yet so I guess it's working.:-?

Maybe replace it this year.

[Razor84]

HotCore bags suck, shivered my ass off in a wall tent in one. Junk

[Singleshotneeded]

I hear Valandre bags and Exped mats are the best warmth/comfort with little weight...avoid shopping at MEC, though, if I recall correctly they're anti-hunting...

[Weatherby Fan]

I use a -30F mummy bag from Cabelas(outfitter loft) all the time as Ive seen the weather be 80deg in the daytime and be -15 with a foot of snow overnight at 6500 feet on Sept 10th so I wouldn't even consider using a lighter bag or down,
Had a fellow with a superlight down bag -10C become hypothermic overnight and had to put two of our bags around him for half a day till he warmed up,He got back to town and bought one asap,
I'll pack the extra weight and be prepared regardless of the weather,I can always unzip it if it's to warm.

[muledeercrazy]

Hey Dewey, I understand that a bag such as a valandre is designed to breathe at cold temps and as such doesnt have a water proof core. I know for extreme cold you need a system like that, but the feathered friends and Wm bags feature gore and event shells. I just wondered if you really think a FF bag with an event shell or a Wm bag with a gore shell are realisticaly that vulnerable to wet conditons? I dont have enough experience with mine to say for sure, but so far i am pretty confident that it wont be a limitation at all as long as I am using a tent.

edited.. I wanted to add that i never had any problem with my down bag getting wet, including on vancouver island in heavy rain with a decent tent. If I was using a siltarp of something like that, I guess i would reconsider. On the other hand, with the weight of modern tents most guys are moving away from tarps and bivies.. At least thats what i keep hearing..

[bigwhiteys]

Hey Dewey, I understand that a bag such as a valandre is designed to breathe at cold temps and as such doesnt have a water proof core. I know for extreme cold you need a system like that, but the feathered friends and Wm bags feature gore and event shells. I just wondered if you really think a FF bag with an event shell or a Wm bag with a gore shell are realisticaly that vulnerable to wet conditons? I dont have enough experience with mine to say for sure, but so far i am pretty confident that it wont be a limitation at all as long as I am using a tent.


The outer shell on my Valandre bag has a DWR coating to repel water and it works very well. The eVent or Gore shells would also work well but are heavier than the Asahi ripstop fabric Valandre uses.

Carl

[MattW]

I've been using a Montbel and it's been great. They make them in a super stretch and a spiral stretch that give the warmth of a mummy as well as free movement. They're a down bag and I have to say mine has always kept me very warm and comfortable. As far as the moisture issue with down, mine goes straight from a waterproof compression sack to my nice dry tent, so if you think you can pull that off the down/moisture issue probably won't be a problem. Like was said earlier always store your down bag loose and fluffed up.

[muledeercrazy]

The outer shell on my Valandre bag has a DWR coating to repel water and it works very well. The eVent or Gore shells would also work well but are heavier than the Akashi ripstop fabric Valandre uses.

Carl


Which model of valandre do you have? No question that they are the best bags on the market.

I wish guys would put in a few more details when they have a story about how a down bag almost killed someone. In the story above, no mention of if the bag was rated for the temp and how it got wet. I hate to be cynical but alot of the time i think its just guys trying to justify why they dont need a bag that is worth 3 times as much as their heavy synthetic..

[spear]

I run a MEC Merlin bag, doubt I would take it into any serious alpine after Aug/Sept. MEC is NOT anti-hunting, they are anti Grizzly hunt, I buy a lot of gear at the store in Victoria often telling employees its for hunting purposes. i would say 99% of the time they are pumped to have someone using gear for hunting.

[BCrams]

I've been using a Montbel and it's been great. They make them in a super stretch and a spiral stretch that give the warmth of a mummy as well as free movement. They're a down bag and I have to say mine has always kept me very warm and comfortable. As far as the moisture issue with down, mine goes straight from a waterproof compression sack to my nice dry tent, so if you think you can pull that off the down/moisture issue probably won't be a problem. Like was said earlier always store your down bag loose and fluffed up.

A nice dry tent and one that does not retain moisture inside - that is one of the keys to keeping the sleeping bag dry and functional!

Good maintenance of tents are required before going on a sheep hunt to ensure this. Most brands, and even cheaper brands will do a good job keeping water / excess moisture from inside as long as you do your part before the hunt.

[Weatherby Fan]

Which model of valandre do you have? No question that they are the best bags on the market.

I wish guys would put in a few more details when they have a story about how a down bag almost killed someone. In the story above, no mention of if the bag was rated for the temp and how it got wet. I hate to be cynical but alot of the time i think its just guys trying to justify why they dont need a bag that is worth 3 times as much as their heavy synthetic..

Sorry should have mentioned that down bag was rated to -10C and if I recall it was a Woods
but not positive on the brand,he didn't get wet at all just very cold,we usually just sleep on the ground no tent so hence the the heavier synthetic bag and the lighter bags just have no separation/R value from the ground,Im sure if he used a thermarest he would have been fine.

[bigwhiteys]

Which model of valandre do you have? No question that they are the best bags on the market.


I have the Bloody Mary and paired it with Exped Downmat 7.



I wish guys would put in a few more details when they have a story about how a down bag almost killed someone. In the story above, no mention of if the bag was rated for the temp and how it got wet. I hate to be cynical but alot of the time i think its just guys trying to justify why they dont need a bag that is worth 3 times as much as their heavy synthetic..


Yeah a lot more details to the negative stories... Read enough reviews and feedback from other gear users and it's not difficult to establish consistent performance among brands (for good or for worse!) and also establish who is posting credible and honest feedback or just blowing smoke. Like referenced above the "super light down bag"... causing someone to become hypothermic. Well, there are plenty of lightweight down bags on the market that are not rated for sub zero temperatures as just one example.



Sorry should have mentioned that down bag was rated to -10 and if I recall it was a Woods
but not positive on the brand,he didn't get wet at all just very cold,we usually just sleep on the ground no tent so hence the the heavier synthetic bag and the lighter bags just have no separation/R value from the ground,Im sure if he used a thermarest he would have been fine.


There are also several grades of down used in sleeping bags and some sleeping bag manufacturers will only use a portion of down and the rest some synthetic filler, yet still call it a "down" bag. Sleeping on the ground without any insulation is a surefire way to lose most of your body heat regardless of the sleeping bag you are in, so it was definitely "User Error" in my mind :)

Carl

[MattW]

A nice dry tent and one that does not retain moisture inside - that is one of the keys to keeping the sleeping bag dry and functional!

Good maintenance of tents are required before going on a sheep hunt to ensure this. Most brands, and even cheaper brands will do a good job keeping water / excess moisture from inside as long as you do your part before the hunt.
I agree, mine works well for keeping the rain out but I also don't get condensation. It's a fairly airy design beneath the fly and I think that's what does it. My take is to use the bag for warmth and the tent to keep dry. I don't like the tent to get too warm and then have condensation and get all wet, what's the point of that. Perhaps one should consider both the tent and bag and how they're going to work together.

[Weatherby Fan]

I have the Bloody Mary and paired it with Exped Downmat 7.



Yeah a lot more details to the negative stories... Read enough reviews and feedback from other gear users and it's not difficult to establish consistent performance among brands (for good or for worse!) and also establish who is posting credible and honest feedback or just blowing smoke. Like referenced above the "super light down bag"... causing someone to become hypothermic. Well, there are plenty of lightweight down bags on the market that are not rated for sub zero temperatures as just one example.



There are also several grades of down used in sleeping bags and some sleeping bag manufacturers will only use a portion of down and the rest some synthetic filler, yet still call it a "down" bag. Sleeping on the ground without any insulation is a surefire way to lose most of your body heat regardless of the sleeping bag you are in, so it was definitely "User Error" in my mind :)

Carl

Hey Carl
you are right on with your comments(user error),and we expressed our concern b4 we left with that fellow, I was only passing along my practical experience,of course the facts help,and to add to it we were in the southern interior where it's usually very dry cold,precipitation in the form of rain is rare that time of year where we hunt in the Alpine,usually dry and cold or powder snow,just my experience it's better to have a warmer bag than needed,all I know I spend alot of time in my bag during hunting season in the alpine,and have never been cold.
Don-WF

[muledeercrazy]

Sorry should have mentioned that down bag was rated to -10 and if I recall it was a Woods
but not positive on the brand,he didn't get wet at all just very cold,we usually just sleep on the ground no tent so hence the the heavier synthetic bag and the lighter bags just have no separation/R value from the ground,Im sure if he used a thermarest he would have been fine.

thanks for the clarification. I can understand how that could have happened. If i was sleeping without a tent i think i would go synthetic for sure. cant say i would be happy about no ground pad

[Buck]

For the budget minded sheephunter the Cats Meow by Northface is a very popular bag.I use a ID North Twin primaloft bag and it compresses very small.The bag my BA insulated air pad and siltarp fit in my sleeping bag compartment easily.

[grizzlydueck]

First off MEC is soooo anti hunting ! I was teaching the BC wildlife's ' B.O.W." ="becoming and outdoors women "courses and I contacted mec head office =asked to talk to there pr \marketing people =I was asking about buying discount or the sponsoring these ladies with some foxfire whistles -and or silva ranger compasses! Once i got through the channels, they said flat out ...NO! We will have nothing to do with a hunting organization ! and, that was that !
On another note -sleeping bags -I bought a water proof compression sack that my down bag goes from directly to the tent =pretty simple process! lol I don't have any experience with Valandre bags, but I do with several other top bags . The top choice out here in the kootenays are mountain hardware ! I splurged and bought my dream bag a-18 c mountain hardware down bag with a waterproof exterior-and with the quatium expander=it unzips to lower your bag temp rating when its too hot for the outside temp, or if you just want it 8inches extra wide -I'm a backpack hunting fool =30 plus nights a year in the alpine and more if i'm guiding- It's better to have a bag a little warm than not warm enough !
Each night you sleep in your bag it looses some r value =due to moisture given off your body! Thats why quality bags are black in the inside =so you can turn them inside out in the sun to remove the moisture build up ! As well to reach the true rating of your bag =you have to sleep naked =the military and big companies have researched this as the bags are designed to act as another layer of skin to let your body regulate the comfort level-Sleeping with clothes on ,may feel warmer at first....... if you don't belive me research it for your self ? Oh and mec used to use roll ends =the leftovers of the down and synthetics= thats why there good for the money + they are part tax exempt as a co-op !
CHEERS !

[Devilbear]

There are a lot of myths and "research" in the comments posted and I will reply to queries and make a few points. I base my comments upon ownership and use of the bags I refer to and seeing what brands are most often returned for "warrantee" when I was employed in the industry.

I also wish to make one simple comment about MEC, I have been a member almost since it was started, have gunnut/hunter friends who are longterm employees there and was refused employment there in 2000, obviously due to my age, short hair, conservative attitude and openly stated advocation of hunting. Ironically, Coast Mountain Sports hired me instantly upon my first interview about a month later and paid me among the highest rates they offered anyone. I retired when I hit 55 on June 27/2001 and a couple of their stores/managers called me and asked me to come back to train staff and sell for a couple of years afterward, however, my wife was adamant about my staying in retirement.

I mention this only to give background to the following and it is; MEC is more "anti" hunting than they should be and while store staffers can be pro-hunting, the "old guard" in management is still largely my generation and most of them are simply urban, trendy leftoids who suffer from the self-delusion that they are "environmentalists" and "mountain people". I used to supervise and train people like this in various silvicultural tasks for the forest service and they are pretty much useless in the bush and azzholes in town......many vote Liberal, need one say more?

My policy is to ONLY buy from MEC when I cannot get an item I need elsewhere as I do not agree with their policy concerning a number of environmental and social issues. They love to advocate "human rights", blah, bah, blah, BUT, they STILL have much of their manufacturing done in that bastion of social progress and equality, China.......pot, kettle, ad nauseaum.

To bags, now: For many years between 1978 and 2008, I would always recommend a GT,DL, eVent or, best of all, "Pertex Endurance" shell on a down bag and have had/used bags with these from the original Marmot Mtn. Works, Feathered Friends, and, among the very finest, Integral Designs. Since 2008, I have stopped using bags with WPB shells and gone to the newer bags with the latest Pertex or Ashahi shells, treated with DWR and, sometimes, a bag cover/bivy made of eVent and I find this lighter and more flexible. I would now only use a WPB shell
on a down bag that I was using in snow caves and for very long treks and this with a VBL (vapour barrier liner).

I had Evan Jones of Integral build me a superb winter custom bag, with Endurance shell and VBL about this time in 2003, it is very comfortable and as versatile in temp. gradients as only a down bag can be. It cost well over a grand then, is no longer available and I seldom use it as a friend sent me a Valandre Shocking Blue and I was "hooked" on this incredible bag, the "best" overall, I have ever used.

The fact is that there are many "good" bags available, Marmot, Sierra Designs, Montbell, Mountain Hawrdware and others, any of these rated to 0*F or so is a perfectly acceptable bag for any BC hunting and they are often available on sale.

If, you are a very serious alpine hunter, backpacker and can afford it, the best bags are Valandre and Western Mountaineering and they are worth the cost, but, you do not "have" to get one to enjoy a safe and comfortable trip. I always suggest buying the best and looking after it and I consider a Valandre Shocking Blue to be THE ultimate down bag for BC uses.

IF, you are part of a group and thus can have assistance in setting up a tent should you fall and sustain a leg fracture, then a down bag is great in hunting. For me and other solo hunters, the risk of getting it soaked is too great ans thus I choose a Pl, bag for backpack hunting and one of my down bags for base camp. For flyins, I prefer the Pl and leave my down bag(s) at home and the ID bags are THE synthetic bags to buy, IMO.

I do not sleep with clothing on and no longer sleep nude, I have tried synthetic baselayers and silk and cotton and now only wear merino wool and this works best for me. I like to carry a complete change of merino undies and change them for sleeping and daily wear each morning and night, but, to really save weight, one can an I often do, go with one set, one spare pair socks and out on lots of "anti-stink" at the beginning of each trek....seems to work well enough and keeps one from getting too rank.

[bowhunterbruce]

First off MEC is soooo anti hunting ! I was teaching the BC wildlife's ' B.O.W." ="becoming and outdoors women "courses and I contacted mec head office =asked to talk to there pr \marketing people =I was asking about buying discount or the sponsoring these ladies with some foxfire whistles -and or silva ranger compasses! Once i got through the channels, they said flat out ...NO! We will have nothing to do with a hunting organization ! and, that was that !
On another note -sleeping bags -I bought a water proof compression sack that my down bag goes from directly to the tent =pretty simple process! lol I don't have any experience with Valandre bags, but I do with several other top bags . The top choice out here in the kootenays are mountain hardware ! I splurged and bought my dream bag a-18 c mountain hardware down bag with a waterproof exterior-and with the quatium expander=it unzips to lower your bag temp rating when its too hot for the outside temp, or if you just want it 8inches extra wide -I'm a backpack hunting fool =30 plus nights a year in the alpine and more if i'm guiding- It's better to have a bag a little warm than not warm enough !
Each night you sleep in your bag it looses some r value =due to moisture given off your body! Thats why quality bags are black in the inside =so you can turn them inside out in the sun to remove the moisture build up ! As well to reach the true rating of your bag =you have to sleep naked =the military and big companies have researched this as the bags are designed to act as another layer of skin to let your body regulate the comfort level-Sleeping with clothes on ,may feel warmer at first....... if you don't belive me research it for your self ? Oh and mec used to use roll ends =the leftovers of the down and synthetics= thats why there good for the money + they are part tax exempt as a co-op !
CHEERS !
thats great information,thanks
bhb

[grizzlydueck]

I,m going to have to check out these valandre bags-they sure have some good reviews from people that have real experience =good write up devilbear and others =its good to hear some real feedback instead off jabber !

[bigwhiteys]

Each night you sleep in your bag it looses some r value =due to moisture given off your body! Thats why quality bags are black in the inside =so you can turn them inside out in the sun to remove the moisture build up !


This is true and some people will put off more body heat than others, and other people are more prone to perspiration than others. I always vent the footbox of my sleeping bag a good 6-12" as my feet and lower legs are usually always first to break a sweat. In the morning when we leave to go hunting it's usually too early and there is plenty of dew on the surrounding terrain so leaving the bag outside to airout isn't practical. Instead I leave my sleeping bag in the tent but unzip and open it up so it can air out.


As well to reach the true rating of your bag =you have to sleep naked =the military and big companies have researched this as the bags are designed to act as another layer of skin to let your body regulate the comfort level-

I would not be sleeping in a sleeping bag naked. The inner shells don't feel nice against sweaty/clammy skin...



Sleeping with clothes on ,may feel warmer at first....... if you don't belive me research it for your self ?


Done quite a bit of practical research (sleeping with various layers on) and never had a problem. I have an incredibly thin Merino wool baselayer from IceBreakers "RedRam" line (great lightweight stuff) that I wear and it provides just the perfect level of insulation and comfort for crawling into my sleeping bag.

Carl

[MattW]

The Vapor 15 looks nice....it also looks outside of my budget. Any suggestion on bags under $150?
At $150 you're going to have to compromise on weight, warmth, quality or weather resistance if you buy a new bag. You could watch the classifieds and see if there are any gear junkies selling a slightly used bag. As an added bonus a used bag might come with free stains and hippie fart smell. Just kidding of course.

[Weatherby Fan]

The Vapor 15 looks nice....it also looks outside of my budget. Any suggestion on bags under $150?

I would check out Cabelas as they have lots of options on that price range,$150.00 remember their(US) Temp ratings are in Fahrenheit not Celsius,also check out there bargain cave if your in the store as the last -30F 3D Mummy bag I got for $65.00
Keltys Cosmic Down Bag rated for Zero F or -17C and weighs 3lbs 11oz for $159.00
ie -10c = 14F or -17C = Zero F