folding mtn outfitter app.for land along the racing

[hunter7413]

if anyone on this site uses the upper racing trail from mile 418 they should take a look at this.drinkall made app. for this land and if it goes ahead the trail will no longer be useable.You can leave your opinion on the website .The outfitters in the toad river area has been applying for highway land to keep us guys out.lets not let this happenhttp://www.arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/viewpost.jsp?PostID=20886

[bridger]

thanks for the heads up

[MidnightRun]

What is the land application for and what is the impact to resident hunters?

[Rattler]

The application doc on the attached link is not opening up for me? Any ideas?

Thanks for the heads up as well....

[hunter7413]

What is the land application for and what is the impact to resident hunters?
the application is for ag. land the impact is no one
going to be able to access the area above the racing bridge on the west side

[hunter7413]

The application doc on the attached link is not opening up for me? Any ideas?

Thanks for the heads up as well....

open the pdf file it shows the areas of the app.

[BCrams]

Just had a look at the map for the portions he is applying for.

Those portions are where the existing trail is for public recreational users (hikers, hunters) may use to access the Racing River and drainages off the Racing such as Yash, Tensti as well as the burns above the racing.

Its quite clear the purpose behind the application when one observes the legal access route map from the Muskwa Kechika Management Area website. No value in the portions he's applying for and its the portion at the end of the property that would seal off access.

http://archive.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/slrp/lrmp/fortstjohn/muskwa/maps/access_routes_legal/racing.pdf

[Ozone]

Client: Folding Mountain Outfitters Ltd.
Purpose: AGRICULTURE/EXTENSIVE
Region: Peace, Ft. St. John
Agency: Ministry of Agriculture and Lands
File: #8015397
Feb 8, 2011
http://www.arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/images/spacer.gifLocation: Racing River; near the community of Toad River
Area (Hectares): 43.7
BCGS Mapsheet: 94K.075 and 94K.085

http://www.arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/getfile.jsp?PostID=20886&FileID=30399&action=view

[Kody94]

I can't see what the application is for either....grazing lease?? Just a map.


Funny that Drinkall would want to block access into Olsen's territory.

[hunter7413]

Just had a look at the map for the portions he is applying for.

Those portions are where the existing trail is for public recreational users (hikers, hunters) may use to access the Racing River and drainages off the Racing such as Yash, Tensti as well as the burns above the racing.

Its quite clear the purpose behind the application when one observes the legal access route map from the Muskwa Kechika Management Area website. No value in the portions he's applying for and its the portion at the end of the property that would seal off access.

http://archive.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/slrp/lrmp/fortstjohn/muskwa/maps/access_routes_legal/racing.pdf

Thanks for adding this bcrams

[Devilbear]

Maybe this will convince those here who suffer from the delusion that the GOs are our buddies in wildlife management to wake up and smell the freakin' coffee. I think that Drinkall was recently the "honcho" of the GOABC, that foreign-funded bunch of anti-resident goons who have been trying to destroy OUR hunting rights for some time now...and, so far, they seem to be winning.

Maybe, this year, my wife's health issues will be such that I can head north to "blockade" and inform the foreign hunters that we in BC no longer want non-resident hunting/angling here and WHY.....It is TIME to fight back and show these baztards who owns BC!

[BCrams]

I can't see what the application is for either....grazing lease?? Just a map.

Funny that Drinkall would want to block access into Olsen's territory.

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/clad/leg_policies/policies/agriculture_ex.pdf

Application under Agriculture / Extensive can include exclusive use meaning he can block access if he so desired. But you're right - why would he want to block access into Olsens area.

[northernhunter]

We hunt in behind his fields every year, and he usually has a gate across the access road at the back of his fields. He already puts a no tresspassing sign up and gets away with it until you make a phone call to the c.o. who makes him take the sign down. He can only have no tresspassing on his fields and has to give access on the right away, we have problems with his guides quite a bit also

[stoneguide]

Funny that Drinkall would want to block access into Olsen's territory.

I could maybe see it if it benifited Dale or if they were working together but from what I seen after Dale did the flying for Leif there is not alot of love between the two so cant see them working together on it.
Dale must have some other motives as it doesnt help his area to keep residents out of the racing.
SG

[bridger]

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/clad/leg_policies/policies/agriculture_ex.pdf

Application under Agriculture / Extensive can include exclusive use meaning he can block access if he so desired. But you're right - why would he want to block access into Olsens area.

not really hard to figure out if you thnk about it.l

[yama49]

not really hard to figure out if you thnk about it.l

Help me figure it out.

[Kody94]

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/clad/leg_policies/policies/agriculture_ex.pdf

Application under Agriculture / Extensive can include exclusive use meaning he can block access if he so desired. But you're right - why would he want to block access into Olsens area.

I am just surprised there isn't a full application available for viewing. As I understand the process, he has to apply for a specific kind of ag/extensive use (lease, lease - buy, direct sale) etc, and provide a description/rationale for his intended use, etc. There isn't anything there for us to provided comments on, other than a map (that I can see anyway). All you can do is assume the worst and provided your comments based on that...

[180grainer]

Done.............

[BCrams]

I am just surprised there isn't a full application available for viewing. As I understand the process, he has to apply for a specific kind of ag/extensive use (lease, lease - buy, direct sale) etc, and provide a description/rationale for his intended use, etc. There isn't anything there for us to provided comments on, other than a map (that I can see anyway). All you can do is assume the worst and provided your comments based on that...

Thats right. One can only assume the worst. In which case, a person responding to the feedback can reitterate their concerns of which one of them is prohibition of access by the applicant on a well known and established section of trail leading to some spectacular wilderness. Linking the map from the Muskwa Kechika Access Management to show that it is a known and recogized access point should help hammer the point home that access should be maintained to the public.

This message can be easily conveyed in a positive way.

[One Shot]

if it goes ahead the trail will no longer be useable..http://www.arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/viewpost.jsp?PostID=20886

I am not sure if he can keep people from using it. I believe that there is an section in the land act (or at least it used to be) that deals with historical trails/roads through crown land and then changes to private land. I believe that this section protects its continued use.

Bridger, I believe has knowledge of this section........Maybe he can offer more insite.

[Devilbear]

There has been far too much of this sort of behaviour in recent years in that and other regions of BC; much of it has come from American interests who seem to think that they have some "right" to hunt and invest in BC GO businesses and then control how we Canucks use OUR land and harvest OUR game and fish. I encountered this on Kootenay Lake starting many years ago and it oftimes ended with some rather "unpleasant" interactions between us and Yanks who were exploiting our fisheries, as in canning huge numbers of Kokanee and then taking them home to Washington and Idaho.

What WILL stop this kind of unacceptable behaviour is a simple ban, no non-resident, alien, hunting or fishing in BC and no exceptions. I would like to see some sort of compromise on this, however, it seems that the GOs and their rich Yankee backers and customers just keep on pushing and trying to steal what is ours, soooooo, time to get tough and eliminate this threat to our heritage and for good.

[pmj]

I am not at all familiar with this topic. I can't read between the lines in some of the posts. I am not sure if this is the smoking gun. Here is what I found:

Land Use Policy
Agriculture Extensive
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/clad/leg_policies/policies/agriculture_ex.pdf

6.1 Lease
A lease should be issued where long term tenure is required, where substantial improvements are proposed, and/or where definite boundaries are required in order to avoid conflicts.
The tenure holder has the right to modify the land and/or construct improvements as specified in the tenure contract. The tenure holder is granted quiet enjoyment of the area (exclusive use).

Fencing
Where the land under application borders on cattle range areas or other sensitive lands, fencing may be made a requirement of the lease.

6.1.1 Lease-Only
Lease-Only dispositions occur where:
 the land may be required for a future public purpose (e.g. flooding reservoir or other specific government projects); and/or
 it is necessary for government to retain management flexibility to reduce potential land use conflicts, protect ecologically sensitive areas, or to manage land subject to periodic flooding.

[bridger]

if the land tenure is given in fee simple it is private land and no one has the right to access it without the owners permission. the government can stipuate that the existing trail must stay open to public use, but that doesn't always happen especially if it can be shown that there are other access points. a good case in point is the ranch on the upper halfway where every one goes bison hunting. there was an existing trail open to the public up the river when the land was given to the origiinal applicant. there were five pieces of property involved and the rights to access were given on four of them but not the fifth for some reason(?) the non access piece was right iin the middle and you still to this day cannot cross it without the owners permission. that is why you have to pay the $175 access fee when you go bison hunting. at least the present owners allow access which is something the original owner (a guide outfitter) would not. who knows for certain why folding mtn has applied for this piece of land after all these years, but the smart money says it has something to do with access control. It would probably be a good idea to make your concerns known to government in a response to the application in which you can tastefully express your concerns about the possibe loss of access that would effect your opportunity to access thousands of hectares of crown land. one or two responses will not have much effect so if you have concerns better make them known.

[hellojello74]

Made my comments, have you yet? lets post up and keep this going guys

[goatdancer]

Added my .02 to the gov't. Hope this lease doesn't fly. Never been down that trail and may never go but it just ticks me off when crown land access gets taken away.

[bigwhiteys]

Added my feedback to the comments. Although we don't use that particular access point now it doesn't mean we wouldn't want to one day in the future.

Carl

[proguide66]

I dont see any reason to beat around the bush on the plain facts with this story as I know the person in question doesnt beat around the bush with his current and past position on the local game/res hunters so here it goes:

1. the outfitter requesting the land has made it clear he does not like resident hunters and he and his staff go out of their way to give residents a hard time.
2. The outfitter in question has no respect for resident hunters , surrounding outfitters and as well 'attempts' to and does to some extent bully local Toad River residents as well some Ft.Nelson residents.
3. The land in question east of his property line is useless to him and will not benefit him or his buisiness in any way.
4. The result if this goes through would be only a negative impact on resident outdoor enthusiasts as well neighboring outfitter.

there ya go if your not familiar!

[Gunner]

Response sent,saying I would withdraw my opposition to this application ONLY if public access is guaranteed by the Government. Gunner

[ThinAir]

Thanks for the no BS answer pg66. It seems pretty clear now.... hopefully it doesn't happen

[bridger]

Thanks for the no BS answer pg66. It seems pretty clear now.... hopefully it doesn't happen

x2 thanks for the straight talk.

[bigwhiteys]

Hahahah PG... Yep. I have a few stories, you pretty much laid it out.

Carl

[Gateholio]

I plagiarized BC rams a bit, but left comments!

[KB90]

I copied BCrams and Proguide, but left comments!

[budismyhorse]

So does this mean Leif and his crew hunting the Yash for example would have to "get permission" from Drinkall to hunt THEIR territory??

Sounds like a dust up at the OK Corral is brewing.

[325]

Made my comments

[Kody94]

FWIW, it has been confirmed that the application is for a purchase of the lands in red on the map. The parcel adjacent to the red pieces is already owned by Folding Mt Outfitters.

[Jagermeister]

My opinion is that there is collusion between the G&Os that are the principle operateratives in that area. It is nothing new where one guide books hunts in another guides territory.

[hunter7413]

the land that drinkall has his lodge on is in his guide area and his area runs up the yash and up to the height of land.every year his hunts elk in his fields and usually takes a few.maybe he is trying to stop res. from hunting the elk in his little corner

[Devilbear]

What exactly is this Drinkall character's background, he claims to have been in the GO racket there for some 25 years and I wonder, is he a native BC boy from St. John or Fort Nelly? Perhaps, he is another of the immigrants who got into the GO racket back in the '80s and '90s and seem to think that they have some "right" to control BC lands and resources in the area they are licenced to operate in.....anyone know anything about him?

I see he tends to be "anti" resident and even "bullies" some local people; I would react to any behaviour of that sort directed at me with instant ballistic force as NO GO sob tells me where I can go or what I can do in BC-Canada.

The more details I hear about various GOs, the greater my belief that they should all be permanently closed down by government and their operations cleaned up. Too many foreigners and land raping azzholes involved in the GO racket and it is time to end this charade.

[leadpillproductions]

We have hunted up there two years in a row , lots of people up there hunting elk for the 10 day season . Shot 3 6x6 would like to head back up to the toad for an elk hunt someday.

[MidnightRun]

Could somebody else make land use applications for the same parcels he has applied for? Or maybe many people apply in 2 week intervals for the same parcels?

[bridger]

Could somebody else make land use applications for the same parcels he has applied for? Or maybe many people apply in 2 week intervals for the same parcels?

not sure but believe it has to attached to some land you already own

[bridger]

What exactly is this Drinkall character's background, he claims to have been in the GO racket there for some 25 years and I wonder, is he a native BC boy from St. John or Fort Nelly? Perhaps, he is another of the immigrants who got into the GO racket back in the '80s and '90s and seem to think that they have some "right" to control BC lands and resources in the area they are licenced to operate in.....anyone know anything about him?

I see he tends to be "anti" resident and even "bullies" some local people; I would react to any behaviour of that sort directed at me with instant ballistic force as NO GO sob tells me where I can go or what I can do in BC-Canada.

The more details I hear about various GOs, the greater my belief that they should all be permanently closed down by government and their operations cleaned up. Too many foreigners and land raping azzholes involved in the GO racket and it is time to end this charade.


drinkall is from alberta been up the toad for a long time.

[bigwhiteys]

I just got off the phone with Ole' Willy and my Grandpa actually used to own this land (where Drinkalls buildings are) was my Grandpas old homestead... He held the lease on Stn Mtn Safaris land at the time too and a bunch more lease along the Toad. He sold the land to a Dairy Farmer from Sask. who eventually went broke and DD picked the parcel up.

The road up the racing is actually the old alaska highway and there used to another bridge up the racing about 2 miles or so... At a canyon. (There was a road on either side of Racing)

Lots of history over that land by the sounds of it and a few feuds as well.

If the road is in fact the old Alaska Highway (Willy was living there at the time) it should be classified as a heritage road and no-way DD would be able to block access?

I don't know... Just relaying the info as I received it.

Carl

[bridger]

did some research this afternoon and apparently if the application is granted the trail will stay open to the public. the bad thing is that a bunch of crown land that guys hunt elk on will now be privately owned.

[combine pilot]

Threw my 2cents in and have told every hunter that I know that they should also be sending in comments. Anything that might take away an opportunity for resident hunters should not be tolerated or permitted.

[Sawbuck]

If the parcel next to the Yash is made private where are resident elk hunters to park and camp - what use is a trail with no where to camp? It would tie up yet another piece of crown land that currently is used by residents. I said no to this proposal and while they are at it they should get his horses off crown land - he should haul them elsewhere to winter like everyone else.

[willy442]

If the parcel next to the Yash is made private where are resident elk hunters to park and camp - what use is a trail with no where to camp? It would tie up yet another piece of crown land that currently is used by residents. I said no to this proposal and while they are at it they should get his horses off crown land - he should haul them elsewhere to winter like everyone else.

I don't doubt the reasons Dale is trying to aquire that piece of land. However there is a grazing lease that encompasses both sides of the Hwy to the west of the racing, right up to Yash creek and down to the four mile creek on the Toad. The area everyone is complaining about and now hunting Elk in is in fact a part of this lease which we originally owned and repeatedly burned to enhance horse feed. In Dales defence, he does pay a fee to graze horses there and us along with Stone Mtn Safari's grazed horses there long before the Elk were drawn in by our habitat developement work.

I realize that many on here do not have a history on the area. Those complaining should realize and understand that if it had not been for the G/O's in the area in years past there would be no Elk to hunt.

[hunter7413]

hey billy, elk is a animal that is hunted in this area for only 10 days,moose ,sheep, caribou, goats,bears and deer can all be hunted in this area.Its not for the elk why dale wants people to stay out of this area
I don't doubt the reasons Dale is trying to aquire that piece of land. However there is a grazing lease that encompasses both sides of the Hwy to the west of the racing, right up to Yash creek and down to the four mile creek on the Toad. The area everyone is complaining about and now hunting Elk in is in fact a part of this lease which we originally owned and repeatedly burned to enhance horse feed. In Dales defence, he does pay a fee to graze horses there and us along with Stone Mtn Safari's grazed horses there long before the Elk were drawn in by our habitat developement work.

I realize that many on here do not have a history on the area. Those complaining should realize and understand that if it had not been for the G/O's in the area in years past there would be no Elk to hunt.

[Gateholio]

I don't doubt the reasons Dale is trying to aquire that piece of land.
.

Don't doubt what? a bit confused by that?

[Jagermeister]

I don't doubt the reasons Dale is trying to aquire that piece of land. However there is a grazing lease that encompasses both sides of the Hwy to the west of the racing, right up to Yash creek and down to the four mile creek on the Toad. The area everyone is complaining about and now hunting Elk in is in fact a part of this lease which we originally owned and repeatedly burned to enhance horse feed. In Dales defence, he does pay a fee to graze horses there and us along with Stone Mtn Safari's grazed horses there long before the Elk were drawn in by our habitat developement work.

I realize that many on here do not have a history on the area. Those complaining should realize and understand that if it had not been for the G/O's in the area in years past there would be no Elk to hunt.The G/O's must be older than Moses, (the one that parted the water for the Israelites).

This preceeding statement is as preposterous as the last statement in the above quote.

I reckon that whenever I chance encounter a G/O on the street, never having met the person before, I will be instantly able to identify one by the halo perched upon his or her head.

[kgriz]

History of the area??? Thank the guides for chuckin briquettes out of airplanes back in the day? Please inform me who to thank for repeatedly driving a cat across the creek/river back in the day so that its a good ford now? Want to shoot an elk up there?
Use a bow or crossbow anywhere along the highway where its not posted or fenced ( following regs of coarse ), pretty much a gimme.

[Devilbear]

Reports from the earliest explorers of the region indicate that Elk were extremely numerous throughout the area and their numbers were greatly diminished in an extremely severe winter around the time of Canada's Confederation. Some were left and there was a small herd on the Muskwa which seems to have become the nucleus of the rebuilding that has resulted in the population levels of today.

Some, burning for horse pasture was done by early GOs, Don Peck would be an example and this largely took place after the institution of defined GO areas circa 1961. The GO industry in that region, was aided by the various BC government bio-assay and exploration expeditions, notably from Bryan-Willams and various persons post WWII. Much of the burning took place, with conflict with the BCFS during the '70s and afterwards.

The GOs, did NOT introduce or specifically enhance Elk populations or habitat, as such, they DID burn initially for horse pasture and this contributed to the seasonal habitat available to the Elk. So, they were NOT the cause of there being Elk to hunt in that region, in any ecological, economic or historical sense and only did what they did to profit from cheap grazing on Crown Lands, which are the "property" of ALL British Columbians.

As to family history in northern BC-Yukon, mine goes back to 1897 and I can document that, so, I think that my right to hunt there is beyond question and shall not EVER be constrained by a GO or group thereof. I tend to get a bit tired of quasi-historical assertions here that have no basis in verifiable fact.

We would not have these problems with the GOs, their greed and arrogance if we simply banned foreign hunting and angling in BC and every time I encounter a situation such as this, I am more inclined to support and help establish just such a ban.

[willy442]

block access

[willy442]

Don't doubt what? a bit confused by that?

block access to the area behind his house.

[willy442]

hey billy, elk is a animal that is hunted in this area for only 10 days,moose ,sheep, caribou, goats,bears and deer can all be hunted in this area.Its not for the elk why dale wants people to stay out of this area

He has no reason to protect anything else back there. That's not his alotted area.

[willy442]

The G/O's must be older than Moses, (the one that parted the water for the Israelites).

This preceeding statement is as preposterous as the last statement in the above quote.

I reckon that whenever I chance encounter a G/O on the street, never having met the person before, I will be instantly able to identify one by the halo perched upon his or her head.

Actually I'm 56 years old and can remember seeing the first Elk anyone knew of while gathering horses on what is now Drinkalls property. My father and Bob Kjos (owner of stone mountain) at the time, did not believe we had seen Elk. The following year during a game count 7 head were spotted and they increased from that to the numbers of today.

[willy442]

Reports from the earliest explorers of the region indicate that Elk were extremely numerous throughout the area and their numbers were greatly diminished in an extremely severe winter around the time of Canada's Confederation. Some were left and there was a small herd on the Muskwa which seems to have become the nucleus of the rebuilding that has resulted in the population levels of today.

Some, burning for horse pasture was done by early GOs, Don Peck would be an example and this largely took place after the institution of defined GO areas circa 1961. The GO industry in that region, was aided by the various BC government bio-assay and exploration expeditions, notably from Bryan-Willams and various persons post WWII. Much of the burning took place, with conflict with the BCFS during the '70s and afterwards.

The GOs, did NOT introduce or specifically enhance Elk populations or habitat, as such, they DID burn initially for horse pasture and this contributed to the seasonal habitat available to the Elk. So, they were NOT the cause of there being Elk to hunt in that region, in any ecological, economic or historical sense and only did what they did to profit from cheap grazing on Crown Lands, which are the "property" of ALL British Columbians.

As to family history in northern BC-Yukon, mine goes back to 1897 and I can document that, so, I think that my right to hunt there is beyond question and shall not EVER be constrained by a GO or group thereof. I tend to get a bit tired of quasi-historical assertions here that have no basis in verifiable fact.

We would not have these problems with the GOs, their greed and arrogance if we simply banned foreign hunting and angling in BC and every time I encounter a situation such as this, I am more inclined to support and help establish just such a ban.

We are all well aware of your longivity as a Canadian. Please be aware though that some of us date back to long before you were here. In saying that I don't believe even us that have been here longer, have any more right to the wildlife than you. What is there roughly 3 million people in BC. Each and everyone of them own a share equvilent to yours. They may have much different views as to what should be done with these animals. With that in mind and as old as you are it should be very easy for you to understand that as hunters we all need to band together. Residents and Non are all going to have to come under one umbrella at sometime or you may as well turn hunting over to the G/O's and let it become more of a rich mans sport as has happened through out most of the world.

Also for your information, there is no evidence that Elk inhabited the Liard Plateau or the Toad river area. There was evidence in the South as you state. The Elk on the Kechika were in fact transplanted by the G/O's in conjuction with the Ministry.

[hunter7413]

G.Os should never have the upper hand in the hunt of B.C ,if that is what they are looking for maybe they should move to europe where that may work for them.A few years back jim foulton bought the land next to danny moores place between drinkall's and the toad lodge which where there was a quad trail( one of few in the area) heading up a valley to a good elk hunting valley. I asked jim if i could cross his land,he said "after the seson is closed" . just another example of these guys trying to keep res. out,and jim is a yanky too......Go figure

[Devilbear]

We are all well aware of your longivity as a Canadian. Please be aware though that some of us date back to long before you were here. In saying that I don't believe even us that have been here longer, have any more right to the wildlife than you. What is there roughly 3 million people in BC. Each and everyone of them own a share equvilent to yours. They may have much different views as to what should be done with these animals. With that in mind and as old as you are it should be very easy for you to understand that as hunters we all need to band together. Residents and Non are all going to have to come under one umbrella at sometime or you may as well turn hunting over to the G/O's and let it become more of a rich mans sport as has happened through out most of the world.

Also for your information, there is no evidence that Elk inhabited the Liard Plateau or the Toad river area. There was evidence in the South as you state. The Elk on the Kechika were in fact transplanted by the G/O's in conjuction with the Ministry.


Willy, YOU and YOUR FAMILY have NOT been here longer than my family has and I seem to recall receiving a brochure from your father wherein he mentioned being born in Calgary; this was over 20 years ago and I may be mistaken, however, you do NOT ...date back to long before...etc. There WERE NO "Metis" UNTIL we northwestern "Nordic" Europeans began the evolutionary historical process that has resulted in contemporary Canada. So, stick to what you do know and do not post such bullsh*t.

There are, 4.5 million people in BC at present, some 50% more than you seem to realize live here and indications are that this number will continue to rapidly increase, due to the insane immigration policies that both levels of government impose upon us. This, is going to have an even greater impact on hunting/angling than it has already had and this is not going to be a beneficial impact as the burgeoning suburbs of Vancouver and the southern areas of V.I. already sadly demonstrate.

As to residents and GOs working together, well, that has been repeatedly tried and the GOs keep demanding more and more and more, as this situation makes all too clear. The entire allocation issue has been so thoroughly thrashed out here that I will not reiterate any of the problems, suffice it to say that men like me will NEVER allow the GOs to control hunting in BC.

[hunter7413]

Willy, YOU and YOUR FAMILY have NOT been here longer than my family has and I seem to recall receiving a brochure from your father wherein he mentioned being born in Calgary; this was over 20 years ago and I may be mistaken, however, you do NOT ...date back to long before...etc. There WERE NO "Metis" UNTIL we northwestern "Nordic" Europeans began the evolutionary historical process that has resulted in contemporary Canada. So, stick to what you do know and do not post such bullsh*t.

There are, 4.5 million people in BC at present, some 50% more than you seem to realize live here and indications are that this number will continue to rapidly increase, due to the insane immigration policies that both levels of government impose upon us. This, is going to have an even greater impact on hunting/angling than it has already had and this is not going to be a beneficial impact as the burgeoning suburbs of Vancouver and the southern areas of V.I. already sadly demonstrate.

As to residents and GOs working together, well, that has been repeatedly tried and the GOs keep demanding more and more and more, as this situation makes all too clear. The entire allocation issue has been so thoroughly thrashed out here that I will not reiterate any of the problems, suffice it to say that men like me will NEVER allow the GOs to control hunting in BC.We all need to make a stand againts outfitter trying to be pushovers.I like to see so #'s in the money spent by res. and the non and see if it is really worth havin them take our wildlife back south.Even the money they do spend here usually ends up back south from outfitters goin to shows or retiring in the u.s

[Devilbear]

It does not matter how much is spent by foreigners in any aspect of BC/Canadian life, the resource as the nation BELONGS to us and ONLY to us and we have the sole right to control it as we see fit. I do not care if the Yankees spend 10,000,000, 000 $$$$ per annum here and we spend one thin dime, again, the wildlife IS OURS, end of f**king story.

Most of these highend GO concerns are now "owned" by Yankee investors, anyway and they have this idea that they can do as they see fit with our wildlife; I see no value to the present GO system for BC, at all and am ready to advocate and lobby to ban them permanently.

[Jagermeister]

It's too bad that this is going to go to lock. But I have to say this before it goes that way.
It has been proven time and again that resident hunters getting into bed with the guides and outfitters is only going to hurt the resident hunter.
We will be coming into a provincial election soon and I am going to push the candidates hard to increase the licence fees and trophy fees for alien hunters ten fold or higher.
We cannot seem to beat the G&Os at the lobby, but we can certainly take the fight to the ballot box. And one other question that I will put to the candidates is, "Are you receiving contribution from G&Os or their foreign patrons?" If the answer is in the affirmative, then that candidate will be informed that I will campaign against them and for another candidate. I will encourage every member of Fish and Game Clubs to do likewise.

[kgriz]

Control as we see fit??? I agree with your passion and basic idea Devilbear.....but I sure don't feel like any of this resource belongs to me these days.....
With every regulation change that the new generation of rule makers comes up with it feels like they are chipping away at the "freeness" that originally drew me to the outdoors....if there were so many more hunters in the 80's often shown by the numbers....why are things so much more restrictive now? Did the rule makers really get that much smarter in wildlife managment?
I doubt it.....lots of personal agendas these days more like it. They just shut down 2 of my favorite lakes for icefishing around PG due to concerns for Lakers even though my Uncle who owns the trapline at one of them saw nobody there this winter and I've only seen a handful at the other spot fishing... ever....too much pressure...not likely. All of it makes me want to puke.

[Cariboo Game Calls]

Isn't it about time we put an end to a couple of hundred GO's dictating where, when and how over 90,000 resident hunters utilize the game in British Columbia?

There were only about 3900 non-resident licences sold in BC last year so why are we taking any sh-t from the handful of guides servicing them. It's time to start kicking ass guys, and this is the main reason I recently joined the Resident Hunters Association of British Columbia. We need additional representation on the decision making commitees regarding the hunting regulations and the allotment of our wildlife. Up to this point the BCWF has had to go it alone against the guides but the tide is going change soon.

[willy442]

G.Os should never have the upper hand in the hunt of B.C ,if that is what they are looking for maybe they should move to europe where that may work for them.A few years back jim foulton bought the land next to danny moores place between drinkall's and the toad lodge which where there was a quad trail( one of few in the area) heading up a valley to a good elk hunting valley. I asked jim if i could cross his land,he said "after the seson is closed" . just another example of these guys trying to keep res. out,and jim is a yanky too......Go figure

Actually Jim also picked up the land across the road from Dales lodge. Dale let the lease lapse and Jim picked it up. As far as Jimmy being a Yanke, I dis agree. He moved there with his family as a young child. We actually went to school together at both Summit and Muncho lake from grades 1 to 8. Back in those days, it was 14 to 15 hours travel from Fort St John to Muncho Lake and not many Kraft dinner eaters were willing to make the trip. It seems now that the area has been pioneered and developed a little better, some think the likes of Jimmy and Danny should ignore the hardship experienced to live year around in a place that remote. While at the same time remove all barricades, giving free rein to a bunch of clowns from the city with guns.
Sorry I'll stick to the side of those that worked to be there.

[willy442]

Willy, YOU and YOUR FAMILY have NOT been here longer than my family has and I seem to recall receiving a brochure from your father wherein he mentioned being born in Calgary; this was over 20 years ago and I may be mistaken, however, you do NOT ...date back to long before...etc. There WERE NO "Metis" UNTIL we northwestern "Nordic" Europeans began the evolutionary historical process that has resulted in contemporary Canada. So, stick to what you do know and do not post such bullsh*t.

There are, 4.5 million people in BC at present, some 50% more than you seem to realize live here and indications are that this number will continue to rapidly increase, due to the insane immigration policies that both levels of government impose upon us. This, is going to have an even greater impact on hunting/angling than it has already had and this is not going to be a beneficial impact as the burgeoning suburbs of Vancouver and the southern areas of V.I. already sadly demonstrate.

As to residents and GOs working together, well, that has been repeatedly tried and the GOs keep demanding more and more and more, as this situation makes all too clear. The entire allocation issue has been so thoroughly thrashed out here that I will not reiterate any of the problems, suffice it to say that men like me will NEVER allow the GOs to control hunting in BC.

You are correct that my father was born in Calgary. However on my mothers side of the family we date back to far before your time. My great, great Grandfather was a full blood Cree indian. My family tree actually dates back to being related to Louis Riel and other dignataries from that era. So sorry to burst your bubble but you were not the first here. In fact the actual topic was a persons right to Provincial resources in the form of wildlife. Let me again remind you of the fact that with 4.5 million people here, your voice and share carries even less clout than it did with my estimate of 3 million.

As far as guides and resident hunters getting along, its really grade 1 class 101. If hunting continues down the path it's on now, mark my words we will adapt to other similar models that exist in the fact hunting will be done in the company of proffessionals, just like in Europe. The guides here are the proffessionals. Probably won't happen in your or my lifetime, but it will happen.

[hunter7413]

So where did jim come from if he's not a yank and the hardships? can you explain when it's runned by the gov. for highway maintenance, it might be remote but not a hard place to live. Not all cityslickers are clowns and are very nice people just lookin to get out of the city to relax and enjoy life only to be hassled by G.Os and get their trips ruined. Everyone should just try and enjoy the great B.C outdoors

[willy442]

It's too bad that this is going to go to lock. But I have to say this before it goes that way.
It has been proven time and again that resident hunters getting into bed with the guides and outfitters is only going to hurt the resident hunter.
We will be coming into a provincial election soon and I am going to push the candidates hard to increase the licence fees and trophy fees for alien hunters ten fold or higher.
We cannot seem to beat the G&Os at the lobby, but we can certainly take the fight to the ballot box. And one other question that I will put to the candidates is, "Are you receiving contribution from G&Os or their foreign patrons?" If the answer is in the affirmative, then that candidate will be informed that I will campaign against them and for another candidate. I will encourage every member of Fish and Game Clubs to do likewise.

In would like to wish you the best of luck in your one man band, stand on our hunting. Maybe you can convince FD and the other 24 members of the Federation that have volunteered for the convention (while the rest of the membership is out enjoying cheap quad insurance) to help you. I can guarantee you the guides are organized.

[willy442]

So where did jim come from if he's not a yank and the hardships? can you explain when it's runned by the gov. for highway maintenance, it might be remote but not a hard place to live. Not all cityslickers are clowns and are very nice people just lookin to get out of the city to relax and enjoy life only to be hassled by G.Os and get their trips ruined. Everyone should just try and enjoy the great B.C outdoors

I never said Jim did not come from the USA. He in fact did at a very young age. You also have no idea what it took to survive up there in the late sixties and early seventies. So I wont waste my time trying to tell you. What would you say if Jim came and wanted to have access through your yard in the prime of hunting season?

[hunter7413]

You are correct that my father was born in Calgary. However on my mothers side of the family we date back to far before your time. My great, great Grandfather was a full blood Cree indian. My family tree actually dates back to being related to Louis Riel and other dignataries from that era. So sorry to burst your bubble but you were not the first here. In fact the actual topic was a persons right to Provincial resources in the form of wildlife. Let me again remind you of the fact that with 4.5 million people here, your voice and share carries even less clout than it did with my estimate of 3 million.

As far as guides and resident hunters getting along, its really grade 1 class 101. If hunting continues down the path it's on now, mark my words we will adapt to other similar models that exist in the fact hunting will be done in the company of proffessionals, just like in Europe. The guides here are the proffessionals. Probably won't happen in your or my lifetime, but it will happen.Professionals like dales guide in alberta that just got caught with a illegal cougar and a bunch of deer in is res.tha he had no proper paper work for.These guys are up here guiding and they are poaching in their own province just imagine what they are doing here

[hunter7413]

hunting on one's land is different then accessing crown land through one's land

[kgriz]

"endure the hardships" Waah

[Gateholio]

Gentlemen, please stick to the topic. Although it is interesting reading about who was where first, who went to school with who, the benifit/non benifit of GO's to BC etc etc, it's not the real topic. Because so many of the GO topics turn to shitslinging, further posts not on the topic of the Crown land application will be DELETED.

Keep your eye on the ball, people. Willy quite clearly stated what the ball is when he said this:

block access to the area behind his house.

For this thread, that is the ball. Keep your eye on it......

[hunter7413]

Sorry gatehouse
It's of the topic but outfitters usually raise the bloodpressure a bit,my apology's

[Gateholio]

Deleted a bunch of posts. I guess people don't get it. Keep your eye on the ball...

[David Heitsman]

I once back packed for sheep a few k's up the Yash coming in off the highway on the road just north of the Racine. Seems to me that the road was at best a mile long before the horsetrail began. I'd hate to see the road go private as well but if I owned the ranch there and there was a possibility of extending my fencelines, who amongst us wouldn't give it a try. No need to vilify anyone. You have a chance to express your concerns, go ahead and do it.

[kgriz]

For clarity, are you guys talking about the road that goes off the highway, crosses MacDonald Creek and then the Wokkpash and then finally the Racing?

[bigwhiteys]

For clarity, are you guys talking about the road that goes off the highway, crosses MacDonald Creek and then the Wokkpash and then finally the Racing
No. The road that is to your left almost immediately after crossing the racing river bridge is the one this thread is about. Although this road did connect there at one time.

[kgriz]

my bad i just looked up the map in the application.....different spot. If the area is being applied to as a grazing lease and is on crown land it might be an OK angle to complain that it would be competition for the wildlife that needs it for winter survival....I would think this is more important than him saving a buck by not trucking them to Ft St John like at least a couple of them do....I find it hard to be able to rationalize kicking Llamma's out of the mountains for us everyday city-slicken folk and letting horses run around eating all of the grass....perhaps he just needs more fertilizer on his fields

[kgriz]

Is there natural pasture at this spot already or is it to be converted to agricultural and then to private as per an example of timbered crown land going to Ag-lease?

[kgriz]

After quickly going over the documents, everybody's complaints etc.
See as though this falls directly in the Muskwa Kechika Area and plan wouldn't it be best to use the government's own brainchild as the hunters' defence.....
lots of statements in the plan suggest that creating agricultural land from prime wildlife habitat is NOT what the area is all about...I would suggest going over it and cutting and pasting statements from it into our complaints....I didn't look up the exact managment area boundaries and their goals from the MK Plan but an example that might pertain is as such..
The Alaska Highway Corridor Enhanced RMZ places emphasis on managing the highway corridor to enhance the recreation and tourism resources. The management intent is to provide for intensive resource development (e.g. timber, natural gas and minerals). The zone includes objectives for protection of cultural, habitat and trapping values. (Fort Nelson LRMP)
Looks to me that this means hunting is more important than cheap horse-food at least in this area of the plan

[willy442]

After quickly going over the documents, everybody's complaints etc.
See as though this falls directly in the Muskwa Kechika Area and plan wouldn't it be best to use the government's own brainchild as the hunters' defence.....
lots of statements in the plan suggest that creating agricultural land from prime wildlife habitat is NOT what the area is all about...I would suggest going over it and cutting and pasting statements from it into our complaints....I didn't look up the exact managment area boundaries and their goals from the MK Plan but an example that might pertain is as such..
The Alaska Highway Corridor Enhanced RMZ places emphasis on managing the highway corridor to enhance the recreation and tourism resources. The management intent is to provide for intensive resource development (e.g. timber, natural gas and minerals). The zone includes objectives for protection of cultural, habitat and trapping values. (Fort Nelson LRMP)
Looks to me that this means hunting is more important than cheap horse-food at least in this area of the plan

The land inquestion is already part of Dales lease. He is now making application to purchase, which he has every right to do and will probably achieve. Like I said before, anyone wishing to keep access open should probably look at the heritage value of the old Racing River bridge site. This site is just below where Yash Creek runs into the Racing and was built when the US army originally built the Alasks Hwy. These heritage sites along the Hwy seem to always be protected and if this one was you would never have to worry about access up the river.

With post like those above where you really don't know where you are even talking about, it is no wonder people get pissed off on this site.

On behalf of the LLamas they were removed because they are not native to this country. There fore they are not wanted in the mountains. We actually were going to try some out when I was still guiding and got shut down by the ministry.

[kgriz]

I already apologized for getting the area mixed up originally.....the real one isn't within the Muskwa Kechika Access Area?

[kgriz]

I also said the statement from the plan probably wasn't from the right management zone but gives an overall feel for the direction of the MK Plan.....which as far as I can tell is protection of wildlife first and formost.

[BCrams]

kgrizz - Correct. The Alaska Highway Corridor and the current identified access routes of which the Racing River Trail is one of them ... were all identified through public input and historical use.

Whoever is in charge of overseeing the applications need to look no further than their own department and the information within the Muskwa-Kechika Management. Some really good information in the MK Management that people can make reference to when submitting their concerns over the application.

Some more information of interest:

The Muskwa-Kechika Management Area (M-KMA), situated in northern British Columbia, Canada, is a globally significant area of wilderness, wildlife and cultures, to be maintained in perpetuity, where world class integrated resource management decision-making is practiced ensuring that resource development and other human activities take place in harmony with wilderness quality, wildlife and dynamic ecosystems on which they depend. The M-KMA was designated in legislation (M-KMA Act, 1998).

Regarding access of which the Racing River Trail is one of them-



Designating access helps to ensure future integrity of:

ecosystems
watersheds
visual Quality
wildlife corridors
wildlife populations
First Nations heritage
wilderness experience
The Racing River Trail also falls within the Alaska Highway Corridor in which The Alaska Highway Corridor Enhanced RMZ places emphasis on managing the highway corridor to enhance the recreation and tourism resources.

The zone includes objectives for protection of cultural, habitat and trapping values. (Fort Nelson LRMP)

I'd say based on willy's comments - the best route is the cultural value of access and habitat.

[kgriz]

You found what I found in about 5 mins.....don't know what his problem is about my first oops.....I've seen almost every square inch of BC's sheep areas from a chopper....wrong person to call out on not knowing where I am.

[kgriz]

my bad on the llammas....was a cheap shot for effect....just did some quick digging and they were of major concern due to their parasite spreading capabilities....just a lucky coincidence that they were cheap, pretty much can eat rocks and dirt and can travel in a pickup like most of us can afford. That being said I also noticed that horses went extinct in the early 1600's in north america and got re-introduced, why this happenned I'm not sure but maybe somebody on here can trace it through their geneology..hah
I'm not sure after going extinct if they deserve special "can roam around status" or not.............surely they carry parasites too and compete for natural grass forage.

[bridger]

the concern with llamas is that they can carry a parasite that can be devasting to wild sheep. no politics involved of which i am aware.

[Devilbear]

Horses, were re-introduced to North America, by the first Spanish explorers and they are NOT indigenous to this continent.

I am strongly opposed to ANY grazing of ANY domestic or feral animals at ANY time on Crown Land and, especially, the use of such land by profit-hungry commerical enterprises for subsidizing their operating costs in respect of livestock. The very idea that some Yankee newcomer can graze his horses on Crown Land is simply disgusting and I am opposed in every respect to acquisitions of Crown Lands, by ANY commercial enterprise at ANY time.

Let us clearly understand, folks, this is NOT an isolated situation as wealthy foreigners, especially Yankees, are doing their best to grab every hunting/angling venue in BC and the ROC. They use their wealth to lobby the bureaucrats in Victoria and Ottawa to enact policies that benefit them and to hell with we citizens who OWN this country. GOs are THE ENEMY and always will be, it is time to eliminate their influence in all aspects of resource politics and management, "the sooner, the better".

[leadpillproductions]

I hope it doesnt get the go ahead , i enjoy hunting elk up his way but i dont think i will behunting up there anytime soon .I would like to see a longer season up there.

[elkdom]

Horses, were re-introduced to North America, by the first Spanish explorers and they are NOT indigenous to this continent.

I am strongly opposed to ANY grazing of ANY domestic or feral animals at ANY time on Crown Land and, especially, the use of such land by profit-hungry commerical enterprises for subsidizing their operating costs in respect of livestock. The very idea that some Yankee newcomer can graze his horses on Crown Land is simply disgusting and I am opposed in every respect to acquisitions of Crown Lands, by ANY commercial enterprise at ANY time.

Let us clearly understand, folks, this is NOT an isolated situation as wealthy foreigners, especially Yankees, are doing their best to grab every hunting/angling venue in BC and the ROC. They use their wealth to lobby the bureaucrats in Victoria and Ottawa to enact policies that benefit them and to hell with we citizens who OWN this country. GOs are THE ENEMY and always will be, it is time to eliminate their influence in all aspects of resource politics and management, "the sooner, the better".

regarding feral hores, it has long been common practice to simply abandon horses at the end of the hunt once fall is near, loading and trucking the horese out, then feeding them all winter and trucking them back amounts to big $$$, some one kills some dogs in Whistler ? it is a henious crime and gets world wide attention and instant response from the Politicians in Victoria, abandon horses to starve in the mountains and damage wildlife habitat?? it goes on for generations and the MOE and politicians in Victoria pay no attention !

[hunter7413]

the concern with llamas is that they can carry a parasite that can be devasting to wild sheep. no politics involved of which i am aware.sorry a little of the topic. i may be wrong here but isn't olny the m.k.m.a closed to the use of liamas and if so what about all the other sheep in b.c

[willy442]

Horses, were re-introduced to North America, by the first Spanish explorers and they are NOT indigenous to this continent.

I am strongly opposed to ANY grazing of ANY domestic or feral animals at ANY time on Crown Land and, especially, the use of such land by profit-hungry commerical enterprises for subsidizing their operating costs in respect of livestock. The very idea that some Yankee newcomer can graze his horses on Crown Land is simply disgusting and I am opposed in every respect to acquisitions of Crown Lands, by ANY commercial enterprise at ANY time.

Let us clearly understand, folks, this is NOT an isolated situation as wealthy foreigners, especially Yankees, are doing their best to grab every hunting/angling venue in BC and the ROC. They use their wealth to lobby the bureaucrats in Victoria and Ottawa to enact policies that benefit them and to hell with we citizens who OWN this country. GOs are THE ENEMY and always will be, it is time to eliminate their influence in all aspects of resource politics and management, "the sooner, the better".

If you are a whiteman. Then at some point your family imigrated here from some foreign country. Making you at some point a foreigner. My ancestors whom were native allowed your family to stay and become residents. Why are you so against other people coming and doing the same. I think you and your radical stances are the ENEMY.

[willy442]

regarding feral hores, it has long been common practice to simply abandon horses at the end of the hunt once fall is near, loading and trucking the horese out, then feeding them all winter and trucking them back amounts to big $$$, some one kills some dogs in Whistler ? it is a henious crime and gets world wide attention and instant response from the Politicians in Victoria, abandon horses to starve in the mountains and damage wildlife habitat?? it goes on for generations and the MOE and politicians in Victoria pay no attention !

This is pure garbage. Yes there are outfits trhat have grazing leases and winter range. However they must care for the animals out there or face very serious disiplinary actions. There has been outfits and people charged for this. Those that have access truck stock out and have for years.

[elkdom]

This is pure garbage. Yes there are outfits trhat have grazing leases and winter range. However they must care for the animals out there or face very serious disiplinary actions. There has been outfits and people charged for this. Those that have access truck stock out and have for years.

if YOU say it is SO, then it must be GOSPEL?,,,,,,,,,,,,,

lets see? the first 2 letters in GOSPEL and GOD are " GO",,,,,,,,,,,,,hmmmmmmmmm??????

[Devilbear]

If you are a whiteman. Then at some point your family imigrated here from some foreign country. Making you at some point a foreigner. My ancestors whom were native allowed your family to stay and become residents. Why are you so against other people coming and doing the same. I think you and your radical stances are the ENEMY.

Again, historically false and probably off topic by Gatehouse's posted comments of yesterday.

Very simply, Willy, the Neolithic aboriginals did NOT ...allow... my Viking ancestors to ...stay... or my Scots ancestors from Argyllshire who followed them to the Canada, we built in 1620.

This was long before the "metis" evolved from the interaction of Quebec furtraders and the self-styled "halfbreeds" from the same process involving the Scots, English and some other Nordic furtraders. So, we were not ...allowed..., pal, we CONQUERED and CIVILIZED this land, well, in most cases, anyway.......

I certainly AM ...the enemy... of the GOABC and any supporters of situations such as this and, Willy, me boyo, I and those like me, outnumber you and your ilk, are FAR more erudite and politically astute and, we SHALL overcome you and save OUR countty from sellouts and foreigners. Capiche? :) Have a nice day, "the times they are a'changin'"!

[Devilbear]

if YOU say it is SO, then it must be GOSPEL?,,,,,,,,,,,,,

lets see? the first 2 letters in GOSPEL and GOD are " GO",,,,,,,,,,,,,hmmmmmmmmm??????

Best comeback I have seen in a LONG time, keep it up!

[.330 Dakota]

Again, historically false and probably off topic by Gatehouse's posted comments of yesterday.

Very simply, Willy, the Neolithic aboriginals did NOT ...allow... my Viking ancestors to ...stay... or my Scots ancestors from Argyllshire who followed them to the Canada, we built in 1620.

This was long before the "metis" evolved from the interaction of Quebec furtraders and the self-styled "halfbreeds" from the same process involving the Scots, English and some other Nordic furtraders. So, we were not ...allowed..., pal, we CONQUERED and CIVILIZED this land, well, in most cases, anyway.......

I certainly AM ...the enemy... of the GOABC and any supporters of situations such as this and, Willy, me boyo, I and those like me, outnumber you and your ilk, are FAR more erudite and politically astute and, we SHALL overcome you and save OUR countty from sellouts and foreigners. Capiche? :) Have a nice day, "the times they are a'changin'"!

As I recall from a history class in University, the current natives came from accross the Bering Sea and murdered every aboriginal person that was here long before our (whitemans) time. Therefore the current Indian population is not 1st Nations at all but conquerors in themselves. Before anyone jumps down my throat here, I am not racially motivated, just stating the facts...look it up, its quite interesting how the current natives complain about us treating them when we conquered, yet their ancestors did exactly that.

[bigwhiteys]

regarding feral hores, it has long been common practice to simply abandon horses at the end of the hunt once fall is near, loading and trucking the horese out, then feeding them all winter and trucking them back amounts to big $$$, some one kills some dogs in Whistler ? it is a henious crime and gets world wide attention and instant response from the Politicians in Victoria, abandon horses to starve in the mountains and damage wildlife habitat?? it goes on for generations and the MOE and politicians in Victoria pay no attention !
So this is a general statement regarding the common practice of all GO's or "some" GO's? Replacing your entire pack string every year would be no small task.

Carl

[elkdom]

So this is a general statement regarding the common practice of all GO's or "some" GO's? Replacing your entire pack string every year would be no small task.

Carl

dont have the time or the resources to see what " all of them " are doing,, I wish I did have the resources, I would produce a documentry about the "GO's Dark Side" but what SOME of them have done, I do know for a fact,
20+ years a Licenced ssistant BC Guide ,I have witnessed this and other questionable practices,,,

[bigwhiteys]

dont have the time or the resources to see what " all of them " are doing,, I wish I did have the resources, I would produce a documentry about the "GO's Dark Side" but what SOME of them have done, I do know for a fact,
20+ years a Licenced ssistant BC Guide ,I have witnessed this and other questionable practices,,,


I wouldn't expect you to.. but your original statement seemed to suggest that it was common practice amongst GO's. I know my Grandpa hauled his horses in and out everyyear I was with him on a few occasions. Waaaay back they used to winter them at the Toad hot springs and collect the horses the following spring. Through the 70's and 80's they would winter in Fort Nelson or FSJ on a farm. They had many of the same pack/riding horses for many, many years and took good care of their transportation.

So... Not ALL GO's practice the horse management you speak of.

Carl

[The Hermit]

made my comments. Perhaps the BCWF Region could also chime in??

[bridger]

years ago most outfitters traditionally wintered their horses in the mtns not good or bad just the way it was back then. now most of them bring their horses out and winter them on private ground. it is no easy task to replace good mtn horses.

[elkdom]

years ago most outfitters traditionally wintered their horses in the mtns not good or bad just the way it was back then. now most of them bring their horses out and winter them on private ground. it is no easy task to replace good mtn horses.

IMO the real issue at hand is " does wintering/grazing horses" on Crown Land whether it is leased/trespassed on by grazing domestic/feral horses compete with ANY wildlife in the immediate area for winter forage?

I do NOT support the Prov Gov't selling ANY new Crown land to commercial enterprise from the Crown Land Base !

[bridger]

for sure wintering horses compete with wildlife especially elk and that is the main reason moe officials forced many outfitters to quit wintering horses in the mtns. good point.

[just hunt]

Any info on the out come of his application?

[1899]

Holy necro-post! I'm curious too, especially given how things have been going lately.

[quarterman]

Left some feed back for the gov, on the matter. Added one more guy against the application.

[kebes]

I'm confused....this thread was started in 2011 and the request is still pending?

[The Hermit]

Note the post dates are from 2011. What was the outcome?

[180grainer]

Isn't Drinkall the same scumbag that tried to push a resident hunter off a cliff a few years back? Am I wrong? How can this guy legitimately claim an ag lease?

[tangozulu]

I too would like to know what became of this.