Accompany on Grizz hunt...

[CanuckShooter]

What are the rules around accompanying on a grizzly hunt? Buddy of mine got a draw and asked if I'f like to tag along with my 338winmag....would it be legal or would I have to be ;hunting; for coyotes or something? Wouldn't be shooting at the bear unless it was attacking or wounded [he would be too chicken to go after it]???

Any opinions??

[ROEBUCK]

What are the rules around accompanying on a grizzly hunt? Buddy of mine got a draw and asked if I'f like to tag along with my 338winmag....would it be legal or would I have to be ;hunting; for coyotes or something? Wouldn't be shooting at the bear unless it was attacking or wounded [he would be too chicken to go after it]???

Any opinions??

my opinion would be that he should not be grizz hunting if hes too chicken to go after it !
but if your acompanying him and your a bc resident licensed hunter then your legal to tag along

[srupp]

hmmm I dont think its "chicken" to ask a friend to accompany him on a grizzly hunt..I think its PRUDENT..smart, a very wise decision..grizzly hunts should not be solo events IMO..

You indeed can carry your weapon for defensive purposes...and take a black bear tag along in case you find a humungous black bear..

cheers
Steven:-D

[Tenacious Billy]

What are the rules around accompanying on a grizzly hunt? Buddy of mine got a draw and asked if I'f like to tag along with my 338winmag....would it be legal or would I have to be ;hunting; for coyotes or something? Wouldn't be shooting at the bear unless it was attacking or wounded [he would be too chicken to go after it]???

Any opinions??

You're just along in case a big ole' blackie shows up.......338 in hand of course.

[troutseeker]

There is no law that say's you can't have a rifle when in the bush (or anywhere else for that matter, unless it's a muni bylaw). Like Srupp say's maybe your friend can shoot one of them humorous black bears!

I'd take a buddy along as a second rifle and set of eyes, I'd also make sure I can run faster than him. That's because I may be old, but I am also deceptively slow...

[srupp]

hmm its not JUST because you are going into grizzly habitat on purpose to find grizzlies, accidents happen, heart attacks, broken ankles,falls etc...and besides being all around safer..its so much nicer to share the experience with a good friend..and only good friends will put themselfs in harms way for his BUDDIES chance at a grizzly..these G bear draws dont come along too often in ones hunting career...
Its nice having split SHERPA duties coming out loaded with a big bear..

Only one is "hunting " grizzlies..and with that in mind HAVE A WONDERFUL TRIP...:mrgreen:

cheers

Steven

[CanuckShooter]

So good to go then? What is the legal position on the 2nd hunter [no tag] shooting a wounded bear? Is there one?? Anyone run into this before??

[Gateholio]

So good to go then? What is the legal position on the 2nd hunter [no tag] shooting a wounded bear? Is there one?? Anyone run into this before??

It is not legal to shoot an animal that you don't have a tag for, unless in self defense.

[Barracuda]

cant shoot it unless life and limb is at risk and then if you do shoot the bear to save your skin you are meant to report the shooting to the co.

[RayHill]

So good to go then? What is the legal position on the 2nd hunter [no tag] shooting a wounded bear? Is there one?? Anyone run into this before??



????? I would think so. You can not pursue or shoot wild big game with out a licence and a tag if needed for big game.

[WesHarm]

I would assume that for you to take the second shot the bear would have to be charging you? Otherwise why not keep it safe and make your buddy take the second shot?

[CanuckShooter]

It is not legal to shoot an animal that you don't have a tag for, unless in self defense.

Is there somewhere that is found in the regs or act?? I know it's illegal to NOT make every effort to dispatch [recover] a wounded animal.

"pg 17. Retrieval>no person shall kill, cripple or wound game without making all reasonable effort to retrieve and include it in his/her bag limit"

Meaning that if I am there, and have knowledge of a wounded bear...I could be held liable for not making reasonable efforts to retrieve also??

[WesHarm]

Since you dont have a tag you cant include it in your bag limit thus making it a moot point? Not 100% sure on this .. just how i read it?

[Gateholio]

Is there somewhere that is found in the regs or act?? I know it's illegal to NOT make every effort to dispatch [recover] a wounded animal.

"pg 17. Retrieval>no person shall kill, cripple or wound game without making all reasonable effort to retrieve and include it in his/her bag limit"

Meaning that if I am there, and have knowledge of a wounded bear...I could be held liable for not making reasonable efforts to retrieve also??

I am sure somewhere you can find something that says it's illegal to shoot an animal without a species license...
:cool:

[brad ferris]

I know this isn't relevant to the specific situation but. Written into the guides code of ethics somewhere is some sort of clause about having to finish off a wounded animal if a hunter isn't capable. Now I know that in itself doesn't make it law but considering the fact that goabc has lawyers on staff and the legislators are very aware of the possibility of this situation occurring it kinda makes me think there is something in the act about it. I'd do some research if I was you.

[M.Dean]

If your helping your buddy get his Grizzly Bear, and when shit hits the fan, if your going to hesitate or second guess what the hell to do,I'd say stay home and let someone else take your place! You may have a quarter second to decide weather to fire or not, if your trying to remember what it said on page 36 of the Reg's about you shooting a wounded Grizzly Bear as it's chewing on your friend, you may want to rethink about going. After your buddy fires, if your near him it's very likely you maybe shooting too, so I think I'd get all the questions answered long before you leave the house! If it was me going along to help out, I'd get my involvement in the shooting on Video, that way the CO's could view it in there office while having coffee and see if I should loose my License, Rifles, Truck, Camper and do weekends in Jail etc. I know I'd feel way better about my self after I turned myself in to be judged by people who weren't there, and I'm sure there's lots of guys on here that would feel the same way as me! Have a Good Trip!

[180grainer]

You are all over analyzing this. Buy a hunting license and go hunting with your buddy. You're there to ensure a safe hunt. As Srupp said, it's common sense to go with someone when doing this and any CO worth his salt would know this. Besides,there's always some type of varmit open you can use to justify having your rifle with you if you think you need to do that. And if it's a wounded animal, if not legally required, you're definetly ethically required to kill it.

[Barracuda]

You are all over analyzing this. Buy a hunting license and go hunting with your buddy. You're there to ensure a safe hunt. As Srupp said, it's common sense to go with someone when doing this and any CO worth his salt would know this. Besides,there's always some type of varmit open you can use to justify having your rifle with you if you think you need to do that. And if it's a wounded animal, if not legally required, you're definetly ethically required to kill it.


No!!.
Your ethically required to dispatch the animal you hold the tag for,
not step in and finish the job the other person failed to perform unless you happen to hold a tag for it also.

[180grainer]

No!!.
Your ethically required to dispatch the animal you hold the tag for,
not step in and finish the job the other person failed to perform unless you happen to hold a tag for it also.


Whatever.............sometimes I wonder why I bother responding to some of these posts,

[BromBones]

Just grab your rifle and go with him. Get a black bear tag or two as well.

If it comes down to taking a follow up shot for your buddy on his grizzly, use your best judgment. If the bear were to be in a fairly open area and you know he's hit good on the first shot, probably safe to hold off. Likewise, if your in tight quarters and you deem that the first shot was not on the mark, I'd give 'er hell on a follow up. Better off to anchor the bear than to potentially wound him and have a tracking job, or lose it altogether.

Generally with grizzly hunting, it goes smooth if the shooter does his job well. But things don't always work out the way you think they should and a good backup shooter makes for cheap insurance.

[whitetail2009]

Went moose hunting with a friend and his daughter. the daughter had an moose leh,we spotted a young bull, she took a shot at it , and it went down, for a few seconds, it then got up ,and started running. so i took a shot at it and knocked it down, she cancelled her tag, when we were coming down the mountain we got pulled over by the co, he took her to the side and asked her who shot the moose , she replied she took the first shot, and hit it in the hump, just wounding it and that i took the second shot and killed it, the co let us go on our way, without an issue.

[srupp]

when Tim shot that 9'6 .....900 pound coastal grizzly the C/O in fact did ask me if I also put a shot into the bear....

My answer is as it has been for every hunt that I accompanied a friend or client.."no"

Thats my answer and Im sticking to it, go have fun be safe take lots of photos...dont make it harder than it needs to be the hardst part is getting the damn draw...:eek:

steven

[180grainer]

Thats my answer and Im sticking to it, go have fun be safe take lots of photos...dont make it harder than it needs to be the hardst part is getting the damn draw...:eek:

steven[/QUOTE]

Can you be my new hero?.....

[mrak]

You are hunting BLACK BEAR buddy GRIZZ what happens in camp stays in camp;

[835]

I gotta say as well,, unofficially of course!

If i was on a grizz hunt with a friend and he shot the bear, wounding it. If it even remotly started going sideways in my eyes. Right or wrong legal or illegal i would be shooting.There are a million ways everything can go right and this will never have to be a worry for you, i would not worry about it. If you are there and your buddie screws up,,,,,, Fix it.

[BiG Boar]

Can you shoot a bear without a tag?

Can you shoot a bear that's charging you?

Both easy answers.

[srupp]

no..cant shoot a bear w/o a tag..

yes you can shoot a bear thats charging you....or a cougar..

steven

[Barracuda]

depends how ugly the Cougar is:mrgreen:

[srupp]

hmmm Barracuda if "said" Cougar is that ugly, may I suggest the trapped coyote manover,, chew through your arm..and exit....lol

steven

[.330 Dakota]

when Tim shot that 9'6 .....900 pound coastal grizzly the C/O in fact did ask me if I also put a shot into the bear....

My answer is as it has been for every hunt that I accompanied a friend or client.."no"

Thats my answer and Im sticking to it, go have fun be safe take lots of photos...dont make it harder than it needs to be the hardst part is getting the damn draw...:eek:

steven

Very good advice indeed...as always Steve

[mudNblood]

So good to go then? What is the legal position on the 2nd hunter [no tag] shooting a wounded bear? Is there one?? Anyone run into this before??

i put this question to C.O on internet. I used my bison hunt as an example, could the second person provide the kill shot? He stated that the second person could not provide the kill shot unless he held a valid liscense to hunt and kill that animal.

[boxhitch]

Partners and guides do lots of follow-up shooting, it happens all the time.
It is only prudent that a timely dispatch occurs.
The ethnicity will be debated forever.
Of course a CO is going to give the pat answer, by the book, he can't suggest going against the laws.

[bcbrez]

If the situation calls for it, take the shot. I would feel pretty guilty if I couldn't find or had to leave an angry wounded bear for someone else to come across knowing I could have done something about it. Maybe talk it over with the guy with the tag first and see what his view on it is.

[bearhunter338-06]

You are hunting BLACK BEAR buddy GRIZZ what happens in camp stays in camp;


I thought that was Vegas......i'm confused

[.330 Dakota]

Partners and guides do lots of follow-up shooting, it happens all the time.
It is only prudent that a timely dispatch occurs.
The ethnicity will be debated forever.
Of course a CO is going to give the pat answer, by the book, he can't suggest going against the laws.

I think you meant ethics (ethnicity)...LOL unless the C'O"s actually care what race you are these days..hahahaha

[Barracuda]

Partners and guides do lots of follow-up shooting, it happens all the time.
It is only prudent that a timely dispatch occurs.
The ethnicity will be debated forever.
Of course a CO is going to give the pat answer, by the book, he can't suggest going against the laws.


Are you trying to say that it is ethical to only follow the laws that suit you?

[NNS]

no..cant shoot a bear w/o a tag..

yes you can shoot a bear thats charging you....or a cougar..

steven
I had a Beaver charge me once...:-D

[bcbrez]

I had a cougar charge me once but I just laid back and took it. She left a few scratch marks too. I didn't mind. :)

[sawmill]

I had a cougar charge me once but I just laid back and took it. She left a few scratch marks too. I didn't mind. :)

Did YOUR buddy provide a follow up shot?

Anyway,I`v shot a lot of bears and if a wounded grizz is coming at us full bore I`ll shoot the S.O.B. in a heartbeat(while I still have one)I know a fellow in Cranny who lost one eye and has some pretty bad scars from a wounded grizz.I don`t want to go out like Timmy T.

[CanuckShooter]

hmmm Barracuda if "said" Cougar is that ugly, may I suggest the trapped coyote manover,, chew through your arm..and exit....lol

steven


Advice from a man with experience?? Coyote manoever....one never to be forgotten.....;-)

[BromBones]

The way I see it, only one bear is getting shot so what the hell does it matter if it gets hit by a bullet from a second gun?

The animal is down, a tag is cut, done deal.

Now, what if two guys each have grizz leh/tags and both shoot the same bear? Technically, one of them has now shot a bear without cutting his tag, because they can't both cut tags for the same bear now can they? Similar situation IMO.

It's a minor technicality that I'd equate to going 10km over the speed limit, or rolling through a stop sign. Sure it's not legal, but it's not wrong either.

[boxhitch]

I think you meant ethics (ethnicity)...LOL unless the C'O"s actually care what race you are these days..hahahahaCaught me
Ethicality

[boxhitch]

Are you trying to say that it is ethical to only follow the laws that suit you?Show me the rule that spells out how it is illegal to dispatch a wounded animal.

[digger dogger]

Didn't BCRams & Stone Sheep Steve, both shoot a ram at the same time? (I think)
How did they cut their tag/tags?

[Barracuda]

Show me the rule that spells out how it is illegal to dispatch a wounded animal.

show me where it says you can dispatch an animal without a tag? it doesnt matter if you found it wounded or not you cannot take an animal without a tag .

Hunting and licences

11 (1) A person who hunts wildlife commits an offence unless the person holds all of the following:
(a) a hunting licence issued to the person under this Act;
(b) any limited entry hunting authorization that is required by regulation;
(c) any other licence that is required by regulation;
(d) any other permit that is required by regulation.


Retrieval of wildlife killed

35 (1) In this section, "dwelling place" does not include a temporary or seasonal camp.
(2) A person commits an offence if the person hunts wildlife and kills or injures that wildlife and fails to make every reasonable effort to
(a) retrieve the wildlife, and if it is alive to kill it and include it in his or her bag limit, and
(b) remove the edible portions of the carcass of game to the person's normal dwelling place or to a meatcutter or the owner or operator of a cold storage plant,
unless exempted by regulation.
Documents not transferable

81 Except as authorized by regulation or as otherwise provided under this Act, a licence, permit or limited entry hunting authorization is not transferable, and a person commits an offence if the person
(a) allows his or her licence, permit or limited entry hunting authorization to be used by another person, or
(b) uses another person's licence, permit or limited entry hunting authorization.

[boxhitch]

'cuda, your interpretation of how those rules apply to the timely dispatch of a wounded animal by a follow-up shooter
is different than mine.
The follow-up shooter is not laying claim to the animal, and as long as the initial shooter is legal, only assisting in completing the kill.
Not talking about finding a walking-wounded

Regards to 11 (1) , Muddle that with the loose definition given to 'hunt', and nobody can go into the bush.

[CanuckShooter]

Buddy, shot a doe a few years ago without having a tag, it was passing by with it's entrails hanging out and dragging on the ground...it may not have been legal, but it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.

[boxhitch]

That sounds like interfering with Natures course
Most people would share your view after adding human sentiments to a wild situation.

[Barracuda]

though i do understand the reason to dispatch a wounded animal the legalities of it are a different matter.
I think the reason that they need to take a hard line is because of POS group shooters where one person has a tag but everyone in the party feels they can shoot the animal even if they dont personally hold a tag.

[KodiakHntr]

'cuda, your interpretation of how those rules apply to the timely dispatch of a wounded animal by a follow-up shooter
is different than mine.
The follow-up shooter is not laying claim to the animal, and as long as the initial shooter is legal, only assisting in completing the kill.
Not talking about finding a walking-wounded

Regards to 11 (1) , Muddle that with the loose definition given to 'hunt', and nobody can go into the bush.

I can speak with absolute certainty to this point....(A buddy is a CO, and I know more than a few of them, and have had this exact conversation)....If you shoot AT (not even necessarily hit it) after its been wounded by someone else, you could be charged with "party hunting". If you shoot and hit an animal after it has been wounded by someone else as a follow up and you do not have a tag/authorization you WILL be charged with "hunting without a licence". There is no gray area in this issue. Whether a CO personally agrees with the decision or not, has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the issue. You will be charged.

Further to the point, the only ethics debate is that if you shoot an an animal that you do not have an authorization to "hunt", you are most definately NOT acting ethically. That is acting EMOTIONALLY.

Ethics is whether you follow the rules or not when no one is watching.

[boxhitch]

you could be charged with "party hunting" 'could' is the operative word here. Will have to look up the def. of 'party hunting' in the Wildlife Act.

There is no gray area in this issue. CO's always have the discretion to make a judgement based on what they see and perceive to have occured .....or not.

Ethics is whether you follow the rules or not when no one is watching. Conviction and substance is following through with ethics even when someone is watching.

[boxhitch]

For the sake of discussion.


from the GOABC Code of Ethics and Standards
#8 - A member, while engaged in guiding, shall not kill game other than in the interest of human safety or to relieve the plight of wounded game.

right or wrong

[KodiakHntr]

'could' is the operative word here....

Exactly. Which is why every CO I've talked to has stated that you "could" be charged, in regards to that particular scenario.


CO's always have the discretion to make a judgement based on what they see and perceive to have occured .....or not.


No, they make an assessment of whether they could make a conviction from the evidence as it is presented. They do NOT get to decide if what you did is right or wrong, the only thing that matters is legal or not. And they have to decide whether to pursue it or not, based on whether they can fulfil the burden of proof in court.



For the sake of discussion.



right or wrong

Right or wrong is irrelevant to the discussion as it stands.....Legal or Not Legal is the bigger question. The Guides Code of Ethics isn't based on law as far as I'm aware, merely a feel-good guidance document to be upheld by its members. I'd like to see the Guiding Code of Ethics used as a defence in Court.

That particular statement you quoted was based around halting the practice of guides merely killing animals for their clients. Its used as a tool to have a guide removed as a Member in Good Standing of the GOABC should they be found to be killing animals for lazy hunters. NOT as legal defence for an illegal act.

Because thats really what the OP was asking....Is it legal? Not "is it a good idea to put another hole in the animal before it hits the thick?, and how do I get away with it?".

And ethically speaking, the last time I'd hunted grizz, the guy that was with me running the cam was under the clear understanding that should the arrow go wrong, then the only time he was allowed to shoot was when that bear was on top of me. And at that point we'd be going in to report the scenario to the CO's and we'd let the chips fall where they may. Had an arrow gone too far back and had a bear gotten into the thick, ethically it would of been up to me to go in and kick him up and finish the job I started. Nothing to do with anyone else whatsoever, who is simply a bystander at that point.

But thats my ethics. Yours may vary.

[Ambush]

And ethically speaking, the last time I'd hunted grizz, the guy that was with me running the cam was under the clear understanding that should the arrow go wrong, then the only time he was allowed to shoot was when that bear was on top of me. And at that point we'd be going in to report the scenario to the CO's and we'd let the chips fall where they may. Had an arrow gone too far back and had a bear gotten into the thick, ethically it would of been up to me to go in and kick him up and finish the job I started. Nothing to do with anyone else whatsoever, who is simply a bystander at that point[/QUOTE]


Did you get a grizzly with your bow??

[KodiakHntr]

Nope. Passed on a good boar due to poor shot angle, and passed on a great shot angle on an average boar.

[boxhitch]

They do NOT get to decide if what you did is right or wrong, the only thing that matters is legal or not.The first decision they have to make is a read of the situation, a perception
ie, one dead bear and two smoking guns
Nice bear. Whose is it?
Mine
Did you cut your tag ?
Yes
Have a nice day


That particular statement you quoted was based around halting the practice of guides merely killing animals for their clients. Its used as a tool to have a guide removed as a Member in Good Standing of the GOABC should they be found to be killing animals for lazy hunters. NOT as legal defence for an illegal act.Thanks for that insight, glad someone was in on the reasoning first hand

[boxhitch]

Wouldn't be shooting at the bear unless it was attacking or wounded [he would be too chicken to go after it]???

Any opinions??He shouldn't start what he won't finish

[KodiakHntr]

The first decision they have to make is a read of the situation, a perception
ie, one dead bear and two smoking guns
Nice bear. Whose is it?
Mine
Did you cut your tag ?
Yes
Have a nice day

Thanks for that insight, glad someone was in on the reasoning first hand

In that scenario the first question would be "may I see your leh and licences please", closely followed by "I see you do not have a grizzly tag, are you aware that it is an offence to hunt grizzly bears without an leh authorization and tag?", which would be followed up with the both of you being seperated and questioned. And then one or both of you will be losing your hunting priveledges for a few years. This shit ain't rocket science. It is very clearly laid out in the Wildlife Act.

It is illegal, plain and simple.

[emerson]

Why are so many making this so difficult? Those with tags for the animals being hunted/transported are the ones who are doing/did the shooting..... If trust is an issue get another hunting partner. If the law is broken and the CO is aware of it, punishment will follow. If, as far as the CO can ascertain, the law was/is being followed, no problem. Once you ask such question on an open forum the thoughts about your possible wrongdoing have begun in the mind of any responsible LEO/CO.

[CanuckShooter]

Why are so many making this so difficult? Those with tags for the animals being hunted/transported are the ones who are doing/did the shooting..... If trust is an issue get another hunting partner. If the law is broken and the CO is aware of it, punishment will follow. If, as far as the CO can ascertain, the law was/is being followed, no problem. Once you ask such question on an open forum the thoughts about your possible wrongdoing have begun in the mind of any responsible LEO/CO.

Not really, I think it's an educational practice to discuss these issues. Lots of new hunters I've taken out have put forward questions on this very subject. Since my buddy asked me to accompany on a grizz hunt..I thought it would be interesting put into a thread..

[boxhitch]

This isn't the first thread that discusses the issue, nor will it be the last.
And we all probably know of someone that has helped out in this situation.

[boxhitch]

Once you ask such question on an open forum the thoughts about your possible wrongdoing have begun in the mind of any responsible LEO/CO.
So ? what ?
Afraid of a flag on a file ?

Better to have any issue aired out than covered up.

[BCrams]

Since my buddy asked me to accompany on a grizz hunt..I thought it would be interesting put into a thread..

What is your educated decision based on the scenarios presented if you accompany your buddy that asked you to go?

[CanuckShooter]

What is your educated decision based on the scenarios presented if you accompany your buddy that asked you to go?

He has the tag, he does the shooting. I am along for additional safety, companionship and to undertake any particularly dirty tasks that may have to be done.

[boxhitch]

Cue music
"thats my story and I'm stickin to it!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAbyTTPUtc