Torn Knee

[Dutch]

Well just got some wonderfull news ,torn miniscus right leg three bills to fix .The lab is only six so it will be no new toys for pops this year as I have to get him back in shape.Started talking to the vet and she informs me this is hereditery and she is finding more and more sporting dogs with this problem.The surgeon she recommended just does these operations as he has a constant flow of patients.My daughter goes to a large US university that is recognized as one of the more eminent veterinary schools they have said it is not only sporting dogs but all breeds and they are saying it could be the new hip dysplasia ??? My third lab,never heard of it until now but have three guys with young dogs that have the same thing,.:cry::cry:

[Kasomor]

I'm sorry about your dog Dutch

The surgery that was done ...is it the same as what is done for a torn crutiate ligament?

[Foxton Gundogs]

Dutch... Sorry about your dog. Suggest you Contact Dr.Janet Christensen DVM Cornelious Ore, And Dr. Jeff Millar also Oregon If you want to get any inf from a vet/Fieldtrialer's perspective. Both are crack vets with a good number od trained/handled FC,CFC,NFC,NAFC and CNFCs to their credit.

Not trying to sugest anything negitive about your vets advice/info BUT Janet and Jeff know the ropes from both sides of the coin

Good luck and who needs "toys" when you have a dog.

[Dutch]

Thanks for the info and yes will follow up on it.I am also going to send his x rays to the veterinary medical school at Washington State for their view.Make sure we get this right .:???:

[Kayte]

Is the crutiate also torn? I didn't think it was possible to tear the meniscus without tearing the crutiate first.

My dog has blown both knees, so I can sympathise with the vet bills. Which type of surgery are you going with? Mine had TPLO surgery on both sides, but there's also TTA, extracapsular/traditional, and another one that I can't remember.

xrays should make it blatantly obvious whether it's hip dysplacia or not. the crutiate tears are hard/impossible to diagnose with an xray, but hip dysplacia is definately genetic and visible on an xray.

conformation wise, is your dog straight in the back end?

[srupp]

meniscus can be torn independently..:wink:

sTEVEN

[Kayte]

meniscus can be torn independently..:wink:

sTEVEN
interesting!
is this very common? I know an awful lot of 'broken' dogs and haven't seen it happen yet. not saying it's not possible, just that I haven't come across it :)
could be that the meniscus tear isn't as sever as a crutiate tear, and the dogs i'm used to dealing with (bulldogs) are pretty stoic. heck, the vet thought my dog had only partially torn her first knee because she was only intermittantly limping... turned out to be a full tear! she just wasn't showing pain very well.

[srupp]

while possible...it is usually the cruciate...and thats the $$$$..:tongue:

yes the past decade this seems to be more and more the case..known 4 labs with this all between 5 and 8 years of age..sheesh maybe throw some sedatives in the morning chow bowl...still susceptable but less likely to be able to do what it takes to send that into full rupture,tear.

steven

[newhunterette]

Our blue heeler had her ccl surgery when she was 13 ish one vet was gonna charge us over $3000 plus $1500 for physio well we had to really think because of her age. We asked for a second opinion from our now vet and he confirm her ccl was blown did surgery for $800 and we paid his physio specialist $15 to show my daughter what to do. We lost her at age 16 but her legs were perfect it was her mind that left her. My daughter npw works for our vet and she assissts in at least 4 ccl surgeries a week. She hears over and over how vets are chargin an arm and leg for this surgery. Many people opt to give up on their pet because of the cost the are quoted. Good luck with your decision. The first we talked took unnecesary blood work and xrays and told us we had to go to UBC for this, what a crock and money grab.

[Kayte]

Our blue heeler had her ccl surgery when she was 13 ish one vet was gonna charge us over $3000 plus $1500 for physio well we had to really think because of her age. We asked for a second opinion from our now vet and he confirm her ccl was blown did surgery for $800 and we paid his physio specialist $15 to show my daughter what to do. We lost her at age 16 but her legs were perfect it was her mind that left her. My daughter npw works for our vet and she assissts in at least 4 ccl surgeries a week. She hears over and over how vets are chargin an arm and leg for this surgery. Many people opt to give up on their pet because of the cost the are quoted. Good luck with your decision. The first we talked took unnecesary blood work and xrays and told us we had to go to UBC for this, what a crock and money grab.
it's very possible that the quotes were drastically different because they were two different surgeries. the extracapsular surgery costs about a grand, where as the TPLO surgery costs closer to $4,000. two very different surgeries, and very different prices. also, bloodwork on a 13 year old dog before surgery is never unnecessary! I'm suprised that any vet out there would anesthetize any dog that age without running bloodwork first. my dog was also xrayed before her surgeries. a limping dog could be many things (arthritis, hip dysplacia, etc). it's cheaper to get xrays than go straight to surgery and find that the diagnosis was wrong :)

[newhunterette]

it's very possible that the quotes were drastically different because they were two different surgeries. the extracapsular surgery costs about a grand, where as the TPLO surgery costs closer to $4,000. two very different surgeries, and very different prices. also, bloodwork on a 13 year old dog before surgery is never unnecessary! I'm suprised that any vet out there would anesthetize any dog that age without running bloodwork first. my dog was also xrayed before her surgeries. a limping dog could be many things (arthritis, hip dysplacia, etc). it's cheaper to get xrays than go straight to surgery and find that the diagnosis was wrong :)

I was quoted for CCL by both vets - one wasn't sure if the problem was CCl (hence the x-rays) while the other didn't need to do x-rays because he does these surgeries in his sleep and can feel the damage as well as watching the activity of the dog. Both vets were dead on with the CCL damage, one was just trying to blood suck us, while the other truly cares for animals. Sissy was very strong at age 13, even when we lost her she never looked like an old dog, she still had so much to do yet her mnd had aged (happens to the best of us).

Considering the reputation of our vet, he specializes in farm animals, exotic animals as well as domestic animals. he works with movie animals and gives his time to the homeless treating their animals. I would trust his opinion and word long before I would ever any other vet, especially after the drastic price difference for surgery. The vet who said we needed to go to UBC, well he has a large clinic with large overhead - our vet has a small clinic on his property, less overhead and far more heart, soul and pride in his occupation, probably why there are days where he is still in surgery until late at night.

All I was saying is, before shelling out major dollars for surgery, get another opinion. We all love our animals whether working animals or pets but at some point we all have a limit to what we will pay for services. We almost made the decison to have Sissy put down because of the first quote we were given as it was not feesable for us so we are forever greatful for the extra time we were given with her by finding our current vet.

[Kayte]

your vet sounds great! it's hard to find a good 'country vet' these days! most vets want to run a million tests and scans and diagnostics instead of just having the experience and confidence to know what they're doing.

CCL is the ligament that tears, TPLO, TTA, extracapsular, etc. are the types of surgeries to correct it. hence the massive price differences.

it's like a dog with hip dysplacia, you can get FHO surgery (which removes the head of the femur), or you can spend a small fortune and go with a total hip replacement. same ailment, different surgeries, and a huge price difference. :)

[Kasomor]

What Kayte says in her posts x 2

There are at least two different kinds of surgeries for CCL ruptures.

A couple of thousand $$ price difference between them.

TPLO is the surgery of choice unless you have a geriatric couch potato then get the cheaper one. :-D

If you have a young to middle aged dog go for the TPLO.

[Dutch]

Thanks everybody for all the info, I am getting a second opinion but I do trust my country vet out here in Langley who has been very upfront with me.I will know by next week what the other opinion is as the specialist was on holidays .THe dog is doing better has lost weight not favouring as much but I have not pushed him at all, here's hoping for the best

[Kasomor]

Glad your pup is feeling better Dutch.

You are wise not to push him. :)

[Dutch]

Update for all who were interested and offered all the advice, confirmed by the expert ,but going to a US vet who specialises in these tears ,Substantially cheaper than what I was quoted here and has excellent referances .Let you know how we end up

[Kasomor]

Which type of surgery did you decide upon?

I hear you about choosing to go to the US to have the surgery done. I know folks that go there for hip xrays too. Even with the drive they are saving a good amount of $$.

Good luck to you and your pooch. :)

[Dutch]

Hello Kasomor went with the TLPO as the other was cheaper but had some issues.The vet did a great job they scoped it then operated ,about a 5 inch scar.All in it was about 2/3 what I was quoted up here including all drugs and x rays.Very pleased ,as it was necessary but am hoping he is old enough that the other knee will not go down the same road.

[Kasomor]

Glad the operation went well.

While there is a chance the other knee will blow... the chance is a lot less going the TPLO route from what I know.

Do what ever your vet told you during the recovery to the letter :)

[Dutch]

8 weeks later good ?? as new .You were right k have to follow the vets routine,after 4 weeks he was ready to go but as the walk lengths increased I noticed a little limp so stayed with the plan.Now has a 2 tone hair style with all the shaving but is back to his old self,oh and NO more throwing the ball :( :(