243 for sheep?

[cavebear]

I saw some pics the other day of a moose this lady dropped with one shot from a 243.

So is there a 243 load that would work ethically and effectively on sheep?

Happy hunting :-D

[GoatGuy]

Sheep are sissies when it comes to bullets.

[d6dan]

Sheep die easy.Especially when using a 338WM.

[BlacktailStalker]

I saw a .243 projectile bounce off a sheep once... I tucked tail and ran.
I swear I heard him say, ".260 or bigger b!tch"

[Jelvis]

Why so large? Go .223

[Alone in the wildernes]

300 Wsm 165

[paw325]

I just bought a 240 Weatherby that I plan to use for sheep and deer. Planning to use Barnes 80gr TTSX in it.

[bruin]

Sheep are pretty thin skinned, and like GG said, they're kinda sissies!
Most of the time the guys packing big calibers for sheep are either worried about bears or they're doing a mixed bag kinda thing.

[Kody94]

A 243 would definitely do the job within reasonable distances, especially on thinhorns.

[Hombre]

My brother killed a nuisance Bison on private property in Northern Alta,
using a .243 loaded with 60 grn hollow points.This was his Coyote load
and all he had at the time.One shot in the ear is all it took.
No I'm not advocating this as a proper load for Bison or any Big Game.
Just relating the story.

[BillyBull]

Here's a couple of links to Barnes and Nosler ... might want to go with the partition bullet and check the reload manuals, and sites for other guys loading for sheep or white deer loads that could give you what you are looking for:
http://www.nosler.com/Reloading-Data/243-Winchester-95-to-100-Grains.aspx
http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/243WinchesterWeb.pdf

[Will]

Doesn't take a cannon to pop a set of lungs.......any 6mm will do it with ease:wink:

[warnniklz]

My ex-girlfriend shot a bison with a 22 mag...

Same ex took a sheep with her .243 so yeah... her dad was packing a .300wm for things with teeth. So go for it I say.

Oh yeah that bison shot with the 22 mag... it was domestic(ish) and in the slaughter house.

[Kody94]

Oh yeah that bison shot with the 22 mag... it was domestic(ish) and in the slaughter house.

Well that beats me. I've used a 220 Swift on quite a few. :)

[M.Dean]

How far is that record book sheep going after being hit with a 243? Will it make it to the cliff? Will it have enough strength left in it to try and jump that 200 foot gouge, wreaking the record book horns you hiked for 5 days to get? I don't Sheep hunt, Hell, I can't even walk, but I think I may go with just a bit bigger bullet! I've heard lots of hair raising story's about Griz trying to eat the Sheep off some hunters backs also. Real sure I'd use my 300 Mag with a decent bullet in it!

[mfarrally]

a bigger caliber would be nice to drop a sheep in its tracks and stop it from possibly takin that tumble that they always seem to do. I use 270 WSM and thats as small as i would ever bring into that country.

[warnniklz]

Well that beats me. I've used a 220 Swift on quite a few. :)

Beats me too... She wouldn't let me shoot them. I had to do the skinning. When it comes to girls and guns I'm helpless.

[swampthing]

I may do a sheep hunt with my 15 year old son this year and thats what he will pack. I have seen him take 3 moose with it and will never doubt this caliber. 85 grain tsx bullets will smash a mooses largest bones.

[Deaddog]

it will work just fine

[leadpillproductions]

The one thing to consider is you will be in g-bear country

[Whisky Creek]

I just bought a 240 Weatherby that I plan to use for sheep and deer. Planning to use Barnes 80gr TTSX in it.
Yes, but when purchasing a new rifle for this purpose, the overwhelming majority of Weatherby shooting riflemen would have opted for the .257 Wby Mag. The less recoiling .240 Wby Mag is generally reserved for youths, women, and uh, umm, well....., a certain "less masculine" type of guy! Generally the same type of guy who experiences a midlife crisis and trades their cummins in on a ford...., or their cat in on an rmk.:-D

Do you happen to know the number for a cab company for the Kamloops area????:tongue:

[cavebear]

The one thing to consider is you will be in g-bear country

Thats what your for. :-D

[leadpillproductions]

Thats what your for. :-D
Ya i guess , I will hide the beer in your pack lol

[hunter1993ap]

243 is pleanty to take out many animals from deer to moose and elk you just have to hit it properly. my dad used a 243 and killed many deer and moose and a couple elk and has never wounded and animal with it. so just make sure you can shoot strait!!!!

[Blockcaver]

22 years ago, the young guy that ran riverboat on a drop hunt on the Colville River out of Umiat, Alaska carried an 18.5" barrelled M600 .243. By the time I left Umiat he had collected a 55" moose and a darn nice grizzly with the gun. He was shooting core-locs are far as I can remember. He said that was the gun everyone on the north slope used. They had all upgraded from .222's!

I did shoot a 58" moose with my bow on the trip.......and come to think of it, his .243 had a lot more range than my old bow, and both got the job done!

Blockcaver.

[paw325]

Yes, but when purchasing a new rifle for this purpose, the overwhelming majority of Weatherby shooting riflemen would have opted for the .257 Wby Mag. The less recoiling .240 Wby Mag is generally reserved for youths, women, and uh, umm, well....., a certain "less masculine" type of guy! Generally the same type of guy who experiences a midlife crisis and trades their cummins in on a ford...., or their cat in on an rmk.:-D

Do you happen to know the number for a cab company for the Kamloops area????:tongue:

Who keeps letting these Trolls on here, mods please ban him.......

Kami Kabs 250 3825 968 :mrgreen:

[Whisky Creek]

Troll? That's what you will be doing in that new "found on road dead" truck.... :) Fords... Polaris..... I knew you grew up a little too close to that eastern border back home! Maybe you should get one of them "1/4 caps" for the truck and paint yours and the wife's name on her door too!

Sorry to the poster for the moderate highjack; the .243 will work dandy for you!

[srupp]

I remember a video with Bart Lancaster who was shooting a thinhorn sheep with a .300 wm and when asked why such a caliber.... he got that BART LANCASTER grin and said" no tracking ":tongue:

.243 will work just fine...

steven:tongue:

[1/2 slam]

Sheep are pretty thin skinned, and like GG said, they're kinda sissies!
Most of the time the guys packing big calibers for sheep are either worried about bears or they're doing a mixed bag kinda thing.


Yep. I use a 300WM. Overkill for sheep.

[hunter1947]

Almost any smaller caliber will drop any thing out there like I said in the past its the shot placement that counts..

[Goliath]

The 243 is an excellent cartridge.

However I wouldn't be overly confident using it for self defense at 2:00 am with an angry g-bear.

In my books, bigger is better when it comes to self defense...cuz there ain't no time for surgical precision.

[Ruger4]

Doesn't take a cannon to pop a set of lungs.......any 6mm will do it with ease:wink:

I agree with Will , this is a great answer for many debates in the past , i.e. caliber choice , bullet choice etc , take out the lungs and your good.

[David Heitsman]

I have a concern on the .243. I know it's taken plenty of game over the years but here's a recent experience with our group.

We were riding back around dusk on the Churn and a young buck crossed the road we were riding on. I dismounted, glassed him and verified his size and told my uncle that there wouldn't be a much easier buck to deal with than that one as we were within an hours ride of the horse trailer.

The deer was at best out 140 yards and starting to move away. My uncle dropped to one knee while I held his reins and shot the buck. It humped up like they can do and went straight into high gear never looking back and went over the edges. I looked for blood seeing none where he was hit but was still certain that he was shot. Lack of daylight prevented further looking for him but we returned to the area in the AM.

After several hours of peering into the various ledges and benches etc I actually found him. Unfortunately he required a dispatch. We felt bad of course but were happy to have located him.

The initial shot went in on a quartering away angle just touching his rear left ham and stopping in his right shoulder. It think it was a 115 grain bullet, don't recall the type but the lack of energy simply didn't create the hydraulic shock that would have finished him immediately.

Needless to say, my uncle bought a .300 that year and has never looked back.

[GoatGuy]

I have a concern on the .243. I know it's taken plenty of game over the years but here's a recent experience with our group.

We were riding back around dusk on the Churn and a young buck crossed the road we were riding on. I dismounted, glassed him and verified his size and told my uncle that there wouldn't be a much easier buck to deal with than that one as we were within an hours ride of the horse trailer.

The deer was at best out 140 yards and starting to move away. My uncle dropped to one knee while I held his reins and shot the buck. It humped up like they can do and went straight into high gear never looking back and went over the edges. I looked for blood seeing none where he was hit but was still certain that he was shot. Lack of daylight prevented further looking for him but we returned to the area in the AM.

After several hours of peering into the various ledges and benches etc I actually found him. Unfortunately he required a dispatch. We felt bad of course but were happy to have located him.

The initial shot went in on a quartering away angle just touching his rear left ham and stopping in his right shoulder. It think it was a 115 grain bullet, don't recall the type but the lack of energy simply didn't create the hydraulic shock that would have finished him immediately.

Needless to say, my uncle bought a .300 that year and has never looked back.

There's no substitute for shot placement.

[Fisher-Dude]

Shooting an animal in the ass with a 300 magnum won't give much different result than a 243.

[Will]

Shooting an animal in the ass with a 300 magnum won't give much different result than a 243.
:lol::lol::lol:

[srupp]

Fisher Dude...this time "succinct" ie right to the point..:tongue:

steven

[Walking Buffalo]

The initial shot went in on a quartering away angle just touching his rear left ham and stopping in his right shoulder. It think it was a 115 grain bullet, don't recall the type but the lack of energy simply didn't create the hydraulic shock that would have finished him immediately.

Needless to say, my uncle bought a .300 that year and has never looked back.

There's the problem. Thinking that hydraulic shock kills. A poorly placed shot is a poorly placed shot, .243 or .300.

[wiggy]

Hopefully it aint windy as those little bullets move quite a bit more in a strong mountain wind and when you see your once in a lifetime trophy at 500 yrds or more and your pea shooter just doesnt have the musterd id be amping up. Interesting to know how many guys actually go out shooting when its windy to really see whats happening


















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[sarg]

I have a concern on the .243. (think it was a 115 grain bullet), don't recall the type

i dont think they make a 115grain bullet for a 243. the biggest i can find for my 243 is 105g that you have to re load, off the shelf is 100g, but i could be wrong. :-D

[Singleshotneeded]

:-D Gee, I dunno! A .243 Win for sheep? I've heard with all that armour thick hide they've got that the only bullet that'll do the job reliably on sheep is the .570 T-Rex! Only a tiny bit of recoil to get used to...
Seriously, a .223 would do the job on sheep, they practically roll over and die if you look at them in a mean way! If you're choosing a bullet, get one that expands quickly and well, no bonded stuff required with sheep!

[wiggy]

:-D Gee, I dunno! A .243 Win for sheep? I've heard with all that armour thick hide they've got that the only bullet that'll do the job reliably on sheep is the .570 T-Rex! Only a tiny bit of recoil to get used to...
Seriously, a .223 would do the job on sheep, they practically roll over and die if you look at them in a mean way! If you're choosing a bullet, get one that expands quickly and well, no bonded stuff required with sheep!
A 3oo lb bighorn ram is no sissy and he aint gonna just roll over and die

[todbartell]

243? Should work

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/58375_431923632991_512917991_5177143_7489400_n.jpg

[Singleshotneeded]

:-D My point, Tod, is that mountain sheep aren't thick skinned animals
or huge ones, and at reasonable ranges any hunting centrefire from .223
on up will do the job. A .243 is just fine for deer and sheep...

[todbartell]

absolutely. I haven't shot a bighorn but I'd bet $100 that a 85gr Barnes TSX or 90gr Nosler eTip would punch both shoulders and exit on one inside 400 yards

I've had a 55gr Nosler BT @ 3800 f/s exit broadside on a lung shot, on coyotes as well as a 250 lb 5x5 mule deer at 40 yards

243's kill with luck :wink:

[Whisky Creek]

I have a concern on the .243. I know it's taken plenty of game over the years but here's a recent experience with our group.

We were riding back around dusk on the Churn and a young buck crossed the road we were riding on. I dismounted, glassed him and verified his size and told my uncle that there wouldn't be a much easier buck to deal with than that one as we were within an hours ride of the horse trailer.

The deer was at best out 140 yards and starting to move away. My uncle dropped to one knee while I held his reins and shot the buck. It humped up like they can do and went straight into high gear never looking back and went over the edges. I looked for blood seeing none where he was hit but was still certain that he was shot. Lack of daylight prevented further looking for him but we returned to the area in the AM.

After several hours of peering into the various ledges and benches etc I actually found him. Unfortunately he required a dispatch. We felt bad of course but were happy to have located him.

The initial shot went in on a quartering away angle just touching his rear left ham and stopping in his right shoulder. It think it was a 115 grain bullet, don't recall the type but the lack of energy simply didn't create the hydraulic shock that would have finished him immediately.

Needless to say, my uncle bought a .300 that year and has never looked back.


There's no substitute for shot placement.


Shooting an animal in the ass with a 300 magnum won't give much different result than a 243.


There's the problem. Thinking that hydraulic shock kills. A poorly placed shot is a poorly placed shot, .243 or .300.

I don't recall David Heitsman saying anyone shot something in the ass?????? It reads to me like it was a decently placed and ethical "quartering away" shot and although he didn't say it, it sounds like the shooter would have correctly assumed and intended that the bullet SHOULD have touched a lung on the way through to the shoulder, albeit at the end of the day the shot might have been a bit farther back than he would have liked..... What I took from his post is that his feeling is, had the shooter had a different rifle (ie: better bullet design, heavier bullet, larger calibre, more velocity etc.. like the .300 wm he mentions) than the deer would be dead on the spot, and he is likely right.
Bullets kill in more ways than one, and hydraulic shock and delivered energy into the target animal is certainly one of them. Again, he didn't say the shooter made the shot with the intention of killing the deer with hydraulic shock, but rather, that would have been helpful (in conjunction with the expected blood loss, broken bones etc) in delivering a quick kill.

[GoatGuy]

I don't recall David Heitsman saying anyone shot something in the ass?????? It reads to me like it was a decently placed and ethical shot and although he didn't say it, it sounds like the shooter would have correctly assumed that the bullet SHOULD have touched a lung on the way through to the shoulder, albeit at the end of the day the shot might have been a bit farther back than he would have liked..... What I took from his post is that his feeling is, had the shooter had a heavier rifle (ie: better bullet, heavier bullet, more velocity etc.. like the .300 wm he mentions) than the deer would be dead on the spot, and he is likely right.
Bullets kill in more ways than one, and hydraulic shock is in fact one of them. Again, he didn't say the shooter made the shot with the intention of killing the deer with hydraulic shock, but rather, that would have been helpful (in conjunction with the expected blood loss, broken bones etc).

If they didn't find blood he didn't touch lungs. If the deer was still alive the next day he didn't touch lungs. The whole death thing isn't complicated. If it's puking out of its mouth and nose you did your part.

Shooting a deer in the ass while it's quartering away (rear left ham if it makes you feel better) isn't the best or even a good choice for the first bullet, it's an emergency shot. I've seen that shot on critters from deer to grizzlies, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - a .338 doesn't solve that problem.

All this story and experience does is reinforce shot placement kills animals.

[Whisky Creek]

To the original poster, although I might not agree with his calibre choice for many of the critters he has killed with the .243, Pat Ferguson, in writing his books, makes no bones about his opinion and experience in killing anything in BC (goats, sheep, moose, bears, caribou etc...) with his .243.
Again, although certainly not my personal preference as I don't own one, but many folks likely use a .243 on sheep with great success.

[Whisky Creek]

Goat,

Yeah, I'd say it does sound like he didn't touch lungs.... But "just touching the right rear ham" doesn't mean it was "shot in the ass". Sounds like the shot was likely a bit high and in through the flank (just touching the right rear ham), but that's just my interpretation of his information. And Yep of course, not a great first choice and one that is inevitably going to be a bit messy. (I prefer an intact gut bag). BUT, I wouldn't say an unethical shot if the shooter thought he was going to hit lungs and kill the deer on the spot. Remember, where the shooter intended to hit given the opportunity and animal position he is faced with and where the bullet actually does hit are two different things.
So you're not going to get an argument out of me about this being "ideal shot placement" but you are dead wrong that a .338 Win Mag wouldn't have changed the result in this case. The extra 1600 ft lbs of energy (double that of the .243) larger calibre bullet and resulting wound channel would have dropped that deer on the spot as well as smashed that shoulder.
Yep, not ideal in a game animal that you are wanting to eat, but come on, lets be realistic.....

[GoatGuy]

Goat,

Yeah, I'd say it does sound like he didn't touch lungs.... But "just touching the right rear ham" doesn't mean shot in the ass. Likely, a bit high and in through the flank, but that's just my interpretation of his information. And Yep, not a great first choice and one that is inevitably going to be a bit messy. (I prefer an intact gut bag).
So you're not going to get an argument out of me about 'ideal shot placement" but you are dead wrong that a .338 Win Mag wouldn't have changed the result in this case. The extra 1600 ft lbs of energy (double that of the .243) large calibre bullet and resulting wound channel would have dropped that deer on the spot as well as broken the shoulder.
Yep, not ideal in a game animal that you are wanting to eat, but lets be realistic.....

Watched it on a bear this spring with a .338 quartering away although it exited before the front shoulder. Two drops of blood and it wasn't recovered until the next morning.

Guess there's two schools of thought. Use a small caliber and shoot it well or use a cannon and shoot it poorly. I know which one will guarantee results.

[CanuckShooter]

Goat,

Yeah, I'd say it does sound like he didn't touch lungs.... But "just touching the right rear ham" doesn't mean it was "shot in the ass". Sounds like the shot was likely a bit high and in through the flank (just touching the right rear ham), but that's just my interpretation of his information. And Yep of course, not a great first choice and one that is inevitably going to be a bit messy. (I prefer an intact gut bag). BUT, I wouldn't say an unethical shot if the shooter thought he was going to hit lungs and kill the deer on the spot. Remember, where the shooter intended to hit given the opportunity and animal position he is faced with and where the bullet actually does hit are two different things.
So you're not going to get an argument out of me about this being "ideal shot placement" but you are dead wrong that a .338 Win Mag wouldn't have changed the result in this case. The extra 1600 ft lbs of energy (double that of the .243) larger calibre bullet and resulting wound channel would have dropped that deer on the spot as well as smashed that shoulder.
Yep, not ideal in a game animal that you are wanting to eat, but come on, lets be realistic.....

I have to agree with you on that...338wm drops them in their tracks....

[GoatGuy]

I have to agree with you on that...338wm drops them in their tracks....

In the last 5 years I can recall two grizz, 3 b bears, 2 moose and 3 mule deer that didn't drop in their tracks with a .338. There's a lot more critters that did but it isn't a sure and fast deal. It's all about shot placement.

[houndogger]

Watched it on a bear this spring with a .338 quartering away although it exited before the front shoulder. Two drops of blood and it wasn't recovered until the next morning.

Guess there's two schools of thought. Use a small caliber and shoot it well or use a cannon and shoot it poorly. I know which one will guarantee results.

Bears are a poor example as many perfectly shot bears leave no blood at all...

[Singleshotneeded]

My ethics involve shooting a game animal in the lower chest, frontal shot, or behind the shoulder, broadside shot...not shooting an animal that's running directly away from you in the butt. I passed up such a shot just this past season on a 5 pt. whitetail. You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything...:-D

[Whisky Creek]

You forgot about the 3rd school of thought Goat. Never ever shoot at an animal, because it doesn't present itself exactly like the target at the range did, or the picture in the magazine with the target overlay on it, and because the bullet might not hit exactly where you intend....

And, since you made the limiting insinuation in your "schools of thought" let me add another, which I think David Heitsman was probably getting at.

Use a bullet / cartridge adequate to do the job under ideal conditions and shot opportunities, AND also one which will allow a little room for error in times where "shit just doesn't work out exactly as planned".....
"Walk softly and carry a big stick" AND swing it well.... Not possible you say?

I carry a .340 Wby Mag for moose, bear, bison etc..... I could use my trusty old .30-06, my .308 or even my .257 Wby to do the job, but for a few reasons I almost always grab the .340.
Because some folks refer to it as a "cannon" does that mean that I am a poor shot with it? Does that mean that I am not a very good marksman and that is why I carry "a cannon"??? So that I can shoot poorly????
What do you carry for moose, bear etc???
Maybe, if you have time, bring it down to the WSSOBC with you and we'll see if we can sneak off to PAW325's private range and try a few shots.
I'll bet you, you won't "out shoot" my cannon.......

[CanuckShooter]

In the last 5 years I can recall two grizz, 3 b bears, 2 moose and 3 mule deer that didn't drop in their tracks with a .338. There's a lot more critters that did but it isn't a sure and fast deal. It's all about shot placement.


Deer, everyone that I have shot with the 338 bangflopped like hit with a big stick...the bull elk I shot last fall got knocked on his arse got up and ran 100 feet and expired...

I agree shot placement is important, but from my experience you hit a deer with 225gr out of a 338wm and they don't go far.

[Whisky Creek]

My ethics involve shooting a game animal in the lower chest, frontal shot, or behind the shoulder, broadside shot...not shooting an animal that's running directly away from you in the butt. I passed up such a shot just this past season on a 5 pt. whitetail. You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything...:-D

Agreed, but I don't read David Heitsman saying the deer was running away, or that he shot it in the butt.
I think he said, "starting to move away" and that the bullet "just touched the rear ham".

As a measurer for B&C I've seen a surprising amount of ram horns with bullet holes in them. Do you think that the hunter meant to shoot them in the horns, or do you think that maybe once in a while the bullet doesn't always strike where it was intended, regardless of the animal position and shot presented to the shooter?

[GoatGuy]

I usually pack a 338 as my go to gun although I don't shoot at much. If a person feels undergunned with a .243 on deer they should be shooting a t-Rex if they're going grizz hunting.


Guys shoot animals in the horns and antlers because that is usually where they're looking when they're shooting. Very common for the folks that get wrapped up in the moment.





You forgot about the 3rd school of thought Goat. Never ever shoot at an animal, because it doesn't present itself exactly like the target at the range did, or the picture in the magazine with the target overlay on it, and because the bullet might not hit exactly where you intend....

And, since you made the limiting insinuation in your "schools of thought" let me add another, which I think David Heitsman was probably getting at.

Use a bullet / cartridge adequate to do the job under ideal conditions and shot opportunities, AND also one which will allow a little room for error in times where "shit just doesn't work out exactly as planned".....
"Walk softly and carry a big stick" AND swing it well.... Not possible you say?

I carry a .340 Wby Mag for moose, bear, bison etc..... I could use my trusty old .30-06, my .308 or even my .257 Wby to do the job, but for a few reasons I almost always grab the .340.
Because some folks refer to it as a "cannon" does that mean that I am a poor shot with it? Does that mean that I am not a very good marksman and that is why I carry "a cannon"??? So that I can shoot poorly????
What do you carry for moose, bear etc???
Maybe, if you have time, bring it down to the WSSOBC with you and we'll see if we can sneak off to PAW325's private range and try a few shots.
I'll bet you, you won't "out shoot" my cannon.......

[Goliath]

Use a bullet / cartridge adequate to do the job under ideal conditions and shot opportunities, AND also one which will allow a little room for error in times where "shit just doesn't work out exactly as planned.

I agree. Having an "insurance" factor within your armory is practical.

Never had a shot that didn't work out as planned? Count yourself an excellent marksman with excellent judgement and uncanny ability to anticipate the unpredictable.

[GoatGuy]

I agree. Having an "insurance" factor within your armory is practical.

Never had a shot that didn't work out as planned? Count yourself an excellent marksman with excellent judgement and uncanny ability to anticipate the unpredictable.

Just saying a person's way better off shooting a gun they're comfortable with then something they're scared of. And, make the first shot count. :wink:

[Goliath]

Just saying a person's way better off shooting a gun they're comfortable with then something they're scared of. And, make the first shot count. :wink:


Good point. I don't think there's any debate about making the first shot count. If they feel more comfortable with a lighter or heavier caliber is up to every person to decide...nothing illegal or unethical there.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but IMO the whole issue of being "scared" of a calibre's recoil can be vastly solved with education and practice. Not saying that many folks on earth can shoot a 460Weatherby, but if my wife can shoot a 300WM without flinching, I think a lot of folks limit themselves because they're "scared" of getting kicked.

Similarily my wife use to be nervous about parking the big pickup at the Safeway parking lot. Didnt' even want to try. Never mind driving with a camper! With practice she's as good as anyone now.

[Fisher-Dude]

Watched one of my hunting buddies shoot a spiker whitetail thru the front shoulder and out the opposite rear ham some years back, with a 300WM, 180 gr NP. Same shot path as Heitsman is talking about but from the other end of the animal. That deer took off, uphill no less, and kept going. I sent my partner up high to push the deer down. We were lucky enough that it came down to where I was waiting for it, and stopped watching my partner while I slipped a bullet into its skull, the only shot I had available before it hit the thick shit and a steep gulley.

That deer had a 4" wide crater from one end to the other. The bullet didn't do the job because the shot was slightly left on a quartering towards deer. A 243 wouldn't have made any difference, nor would a 338. The deer was going to die at some point with internal damage and liver damage (a 243 would have done the same thing), but who knows if we would have recovered it if I hadn't been able to pop it in the mellon.

Shot placement is key with any gun. A 300 WM didn't make any difference in this case.

[wiggy]

absolutely. I haven't shot a bighorn but I'd bet $100 that a 85gr Barnes TSX or 90gr Nosler eTip would punch both shoulders and exit on one inside 400 yards

I've had a 55gr Nosler BT @ 3800 f/s exit broadside on a lung shot, on coyotes as well as a 250 lb 5x5 mule deer at 40 yards

243's kill with luck :wink:
Seen a ram killed with a 243 at around that distance. Was hit off the front shoulder and we found the bullet on the skin on the other side. It was a nosler partition. Sheep ran uphill after the shot and was heading over the top when it stumbled on shale slipped fell and broke its neck from falling down the entire slide. We werent 100 percent that the shot hit em but the shooter said he thought he seem him cringe. The ram ran up that mountain jack rabbit. If it was hit by a 300 at that distance it would have tumbled on the spot. Seen another guy open up on a ram in a blizzard downhill at 300 yrds. He was hitting 2 ft behind the rams ass and trying to lead him.

[David Heitsman]

Guys,

The shot went in in front of his left leg, missing his ass by 10"
passed diagonally through his body and lodged in the right shoulder. (Notice I didn't say 'front' shoulder since you folks that hang on my every word would have had a comment about too.)
Why he wasn't bleeding / frothing from the nose seemed odd as there would have had to at the least been a diaphram puncture. The shot I suppose may have traveled above the lungs themselves.

Perhaps hydraulic'd is the incorrect term but a .30 would have been a thru and thru and there would have been bone and tissue damage that would have resulted in it's inability to run the mile to the breaks.

Was it poorly placed? Yes evidently. However we did spend most of the next day finding it.

Anyway, I'm sure you fellas who deem yourselves to be the ethics police
for all BC hunters will have something deraogatory to add to my post.
Just know that rarely do I ever go back and look at your useless bla bla'ing anyways.

[Kody94]

Guys,

The shot went in in front of his left leg, missing his ass by 10"
passed diagonally through his body and lodged in the right shoulder. (Notice I didn't say 'front' shoulder since you folks that hang on my every word would have had a comment about too.)
Why he wasn't bleeding / frothing from the nose seemed odd as there would have had to at the least been a diaphram puncture. The shot I suppose may have traveled above the lungs themselves.

Perhaps hydraulic'd is the incorrect term but a .30 would have been a thru and thru and there would have been bone and tissue damage that would have resulted in it's inability to run the mile to the breaks.

Was it poorly placed? Yes evidently. However we did spend most of the next day finding it.

Anyway, I'm sure you fellas who deem yourselves to be the ethics police
for all BC hunters will have something deraogatory to add to my post.
Just know that rarely do I ever go back and look at your useless bla bla'ing anyways.

243's definitely aren't well suited for a raking shot like that. I am actually a little surprised that it penetrated that far. Your example is one where a 300WM would have obviously worked better.

Everyone needs to understand the limitations of what they choose to hunt with.

The 243 doesn't have a lot of horsepower and the lighter bullets don't lend themselves to bucking wind, or penetrating through thick bone or long distances. With the right bullet and the right circumstances they can be surprising though. Keep the distances reasonable, and place shots well, and don't take silly shot angles, etc, the 243 will do just fine.

IMHO, 80%+ of shot effectiveness is placement. The other 20% is bullet construction and impact velocity....and that 20% really only matters if you take shots that require deep penetration or penetrating big bones.

Use unsuitable bullets in a big gun, and you're probably just as well off with the 243.

Although a friend or two of mine might argue, I don't think that calibre makes up (much) for bad shot placement. It might help a fringe shot a little, or with breaking down big bones in some circumstances, but a bad shot will usually result in a long follow up just about the same as a lighter calibre.

[todbartell]

Seen another guy open up on a ram in a blizzard downhill at 300 yrds. He was hitting 2 ft behind the rams ass and trying to lead him.

soooooo let's say 48" wind drift @ 300y - that would be 65mph crosswind (for 243 w/ 100gr @ 2950 fps)

a 300 Win Mag with 180gr @ 2950 fps would be drifting 38"

a 7mm STW hot loaded w/ 160gr @ 3300 fps would be drifting 29",


probably not the best decision to take a 300 yard shot in a 65mph wind, 243 or not:wink:

[wiggy]

soooooo let's say 48" wind drift @ 300y - that would be 65mph crosswind (for 243 w/ 100gr @ 2950 fps)

a 300 Win Mag with 180gr @ 2950 fps would be drifting 38"

a 7mm STW hot loaded w/ 160gr @ 3300 fps would be drifting 29",


probably not the best decision to take a 300 yard shot in a 65mph wind, 243 or not:wink:
I agree but when a full curl ram is trotting across the scree men can loose all rationality. You can tell them to wait but nooooooo boom boom boom

[Kody94]

soooooo let's say 48" wind drift @ 300y - that would be 65mph crosswind (for 243 w/ 100gr @ 2950 fps)

a 300 Win Mag with 180gr @ 2950 fps would be drifting 38"

a 7mm STW hot loaded w/ 160gr @ 3300 fps would be drifting 29",


probably not the best decision to take a 300 yard shot in a 65mph wind, 243 or not:wink:


I agree but when a full curl ram is trotting across the scree men can loose all rationality. You can tell them to wait but nooooooo boom boom boom

LOL, I get it....because it was the .243 and a clean miss, the 'irrational' hunter can blame the failure on the rifle/cartridge. It he had taken the same shot with the 7mm STW and hit it in the hind quarter, the hunter would have just been a crappy shot.

[bridger]

I have seen quite a number of rams harvested in my hunting career taken with a variety of calibres- smallest being a 25/06 largest a 338. I agree with most opinons on this post that shot placement is critical and that under the right conditions a 243 is an adequate sheep rifle. there are other factors to consider other than sheep are soft skinned and easily killed which in my experience is not always true. rams are not always taken under ideal conditions. wind, rain, snow etc have an effect and lighter bullets don't do as well under those conditions as do heavier ones. Can a 243 kill a sheep? Absolutely, but most of us don't get that many chances at a ram so it would seem prudent to me to use a calibre with a heavier faster bullet, providing you can shoot it properly and that just takes practice most of the time. My favorite sheep rifle for years was a 25/06, but as the grizzly encounters increased I went to a 300wsm and it is out of the many i have owned
and hunted with over the years my favorite all time.

[Whisky Creek]

Use a bullet / cartridge adequate to do the job under ideal conditions and shot opportunities, AND also one which will allow a little room for error in times where "shit just doesn't work out exactly as planned".....
"Walk softly and carry a big stick" AND swing it well....

Exactly my point also Bridger, the wind, rain, snow, G-bears etc.... are all examples of where "$hit doesn't work out exactly as planned".....

[wiggy]

LOL, I get it....because it was the .243 and a clean miss, the 'irrational' hunter can blame the failure on the rifle/cartridge. It he had taken the same shot with the 7mm STW and hit it in the hind quarter, the hunter would have just been a crappy shot.
As the wife says; anyone who throws 60 lbs in a pack on their back; travels to the middle of nowhere and then flies into the real middle of nowhere to hike 20 km to maybe see a trophy ram and actually pays to do it is definately not rational. Kinda feel the same about anyone who does it and carries a pea shooter when they dont have to