Whats the deal with guides?

[HUNTERTREV]

Its my dream to go on a guided mountain goat hunt, but all the the guide outfitters online are charging like 6 to 10 grand for a hunt to amarican clients, i cant afford that. my question is are their any outfitters in BC that would give a BC resident like myself a better price considering i have all my own gear and i dont need someone to cook for me and i can buy my own tag?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

i have all my own gear and i dont need someone to cook for me and i can buy my own tag?

Sounds like you don't need a guide.


SSS

[Chuck]

Sounds like you don't need a guide.


SSS

My words exactly.....

[KB90]

Sounds like you don't need a guide.


Exactly what I was thinking.

You've got all the gear, your in a province where you can go buy a goat tag and hunt.

What's stopping you? Why do you need a guide?

[Barracuda]

I think you will find they cater to people with money from every where not just America .

As with the other guys unless you cant get a tag over the counter or if you have some kind of disability a guide isnt needed.

All you need is money , time and location (each one in varying degrees depending on circumstances) to harvest most any animal cept special leh ones.

have you considered a packer as an alternative?

[KB90]

Also, outfitting is a business. They are there to make money.

You have 8 goat hunts to sell. Would you rather sell all of them for $8,000 a piece to out of province/country hunters (which they will gladly pay), or at $3,000 to the whiney cheap resident? (not trying to be a dick, just proving a point)

[hellojello74]

Most outfitters will cater to residents with a different pricing breakdown, worth contacting the outfitters to find out. I know with sheep for instance, they don't come out of the quota, so they can offer it a lower price. Not sure if the same system works for goats but I'm sure you could work something out. Also I am sure someone with more knowledge will chime in.

PS Guides like having people who are into the hunting part as its more like hunting with a buddy than baby sitting, makes it alot more fun for them

[Devilbear]

Yup, ...whiney cheap resident..., it seems we hear this sort of pejorative comment here quite frequently, it sure does nothing to promote cooperation between GOs and we residents.

I do not see the resident BC hunter as ...whiney...and, we are being more generous in sharing our rare game such as RM Goats with foreign trophy collectors, than any other jurisdiction in North America. However, this can and will soon change and the GOs will be the losers in the current fracas over allocation. JMHO.

There ARE come GOs who WILL take you hunting as a "dropcamp" and there are several options to pick from in respect of just what you want in support facilities and costs. I would contact Larry Warren, of Tuchodi Outfitters, a good ol' BC boy and one I have heard high praise for.

[porcupine]

Its my dream to go on a guided mountain goat hunt, but all the the guide outfitters online are charging like 6 to 10 grand for a hunt to amarican clients, i cant afford that. my question is are their any outfitters in BC that would give a BC resident like myself a better price considering i have all my own gear and i dont need someone to cook for me and i can buy my own tag?

My dream was to go on a guided mountain goat hunt and I did just that this past fall.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=55468&highlight=mountain+goat+hunt

If you phone the outfitter and ask, you will find, like I did, that they will usually charge you a discounted rate for being a BC resident. You aren't using up one of their tags, you are extra revenue that they do not usually get, and they can be assured that you are not shooting illegal game, nor interferring with other hunts that may be going on in their territory. Also, their gear may be better than your own. My hunt was quite reasonable and other outfitters I talked with were reasonable as well.

[Mikey Rafiki]

Try to find someone with experience that will take you out and show you a few spots. Also, spend some time scouting and working on identification so you will be plenty prepared for the season.

[GOLDEN TOP SNIPER]

just put in a draw and go ..if you dont score the first year , go the next year , it takes time and a little planning . but it will happen . lots of goats in the province , you dont need a G.O.

[16ga]

Try to find someone with experience that will take you out and show you a few spots. Also, spend some time scouting and working on identification so you will be plenty prepared for the season.

Good advice, I would think that a GO would encourage you to work with them, especially if you plan on hunting in "their territory", if for no other reason then to ensure you take a billy (it can be tough to tell the difference if you are not experienced), it would seem to me to be advantageous to both the hunter and guide.

As a resident you have the right to hunt in "their territory" with or with out their cooperation, just saying.

[Matty_ola]

Also, outfitting is a business. They are there to make money.

You have 8 goat hunts to sell. Would you rather sell all of them for $8,000 a piece to out of province/country hunters (which they will gladly pay), or at $3,000 to the whiney cheap resident? (not trying to be a dick, just proving a point)

Well that makes guides sound like a great bunch of guys to deal with:) with that attitude it's no wonder there are so many negative threads about GO's. So what's the name of your outfit?

[bridger]

why not contact a licensed transporter they cater exclusivly to resident hunters? they offer quality service at lower prices for bc residents.

[KB90]

Well that makes guides sound like a great bunch of guys to deal with with that attitude it's no wonder there are so many negative threads about GO's,

No outfit. Just looking at it from a business standpoint. Any business would do what would make them more money.

However if the area you want to hunt is not on quota then a reduced price would be a great idea, as someone mentioned, it is extra money for the outfitter as it does not come off their quota.


So what's the name of your outfit?

haha no outfit for me. Just thinking from the other point of view.

[KB90]

I do not see the resident BC hunter as ...whiney...

Neither do I (some exceptions). This is our province and our animals.

To the OP, I was not calling you whiney, just for the record :-D. Just making a point from a business standpoint.

But the fact remains that we can go hunt mountains goats on any given year by buying an over the counter tag. Outfitters tags are usually for non-bc residents that's why they come with the expensive price tag. People who don't have access to these animals will pay that price.

[HUNTERTREV]

Its not that im cheap, i would pay the big money if i had it. Also i guess the only reason i think i need a guide is because i dont know exactly where to go and i dont have all summer to spend scouting as this is a busy time for me at work. basically making me a weekend hunter driving up from the lowermainland its hard to find goats when you only have 2 or 3 days of hunting, guess i need to take more time off.

[835]

Yup, Time off and time in.
There out there.
Im in the same boat as you for Rocky mtn Elk. No real idea where to go, no real idea where to hunt when i get there. But i have put 2X 14 day trips into learning. Not even seen an elk yet but ive shot some nice deer trying! put in some reserch to it, pick a place you think should be good and go there.


PS: anybody out there with a good RME spot feel free to pm me! :) ha ha

[KB90]

Its not that im cheap, i would pay the big money if i had it. Also i guess the only reason i think i need a guide is because i dont know exactly where to go and i dont have all summer to spend scouting as this is a busy time for me at work. basically making me a weekend hunter driving up from the lowermainland its hard to find goats when you only have 2 or 3 days of hunting, guess i need to take more time off.

Nobody is calling you cheap! There's no way I could afford a guided hunt either. My comments were based on your "whats up with the guides" question.

I think your problem is time and travel. You are saying you are willing to take a week off work and pay 3-4 thousand to an outfitter to hunt a goat.

You could do a hunt for the same amount of time and a quarter of the price on your own. For the price of a guided hunt you could go a couple times in a season. Also you don't need to go out scouting in the summer, it would help but isn't a deal breaker.

Do a little research here on HBC and you will find successful areas to go. I would look into the kootneys if I were you.

Goodluck on your quest for a goat!

[1899]

... basically making me a weekend hunter driving up from the lowermainland its hard to find goats when you only have 2 or 3 days of hunting, guess i need to take more time off.

That is a tall order. There are goats within driving range, but by the time you do the required hiking, you will be out of time.

[RJ]

Im looking at a Stone Sheep hunt next summer, like you I don't know the area, but Im not going there expecting to cut a tag the first time out. It might take 3, 4, or 10 trips. I guess what Im trying to say with these mountain animals is it will likely take a few trips, but the satisfaction will be great.

[HUNTERTREV]

you all make very good points, i guess i just need to pick an area, suck it up, put some time in and do some hiking untill i find some goats. any ideas on where to begin?

[835]

you all make very good points, i guess i just need to pick an area, suck it up, put some time in and do some hiking untill i find some goats. any ideas on where to begin?


Find the steepest nastiest most unforgiving mauntain and go there!!

Just kidding, Put "Goats" into the search function and start reading. I have never hunted no want to hunt thoes crazy buggers!

[GOLDEN TOP SNIPER]

Where do you live huntertrev ? Sounds like lower mainland . Goat hunting is a adventure but very doable even by a beginner . Right now your looking at the mountains and saying . HOLY .. how do i get up there ? . But its not where the goats are .. its WHEN ! .If your in good shape and have enuff gear early season is doable . there high up tho. but later on after thanksgiving or so . there much lower and easyer to get at . and ya it takes more than a weekend most times. A lot of guys have planned there goat hunts in september , i would advice agaisnt that for two reasons , there way too high up , and the coat isnt full yet .. it would be a lot of work to get them and get out .Weather is nicer tho ..lol. , In the late fall they move down and some are easy pickings , still, its a goat hunt .. takes time and lots of work anyway you slice it .

[Hunt'n Guide]

There are reasons why hunts cost money. Outfitters have to service debt like any other business. They have to pay their empolyees. They supply food and equipment. All factor into the equation.

As to what is up with the guides. Guides for the most part are heavily reliant on tips on top of the wage from the outfitter to make a living. Guys that want to do things as cheap as possible generally don't consider the work their guide does for them and don't leave an appropriate tip. Often the guy trying to do things cheap leave the guy that cooks for you, washes dishes, saddles your horse, finds your game, cares for the meat and cape, keeps you entertained in the slow times etc. less of a tip than you'd leave the waitress for the same number of meals in a restaraunt. That is part of the reason why outfiters don't often take residents. Their guides hate it. Bust your balls for ten days for some guy and he leaves you $100. Not fun.:twisted:

if you ever do go on a guided hunt budget for the tip. $100 per day or 10% of the cost of the hunt.

[dino]

you all make very good points, i guess i just need to pick an area, suck it up, put some time in and do some hiking untill i find some goats. any ideas on where to begin?
You just have to make some calls and you can find out where the guides are going. Its all public info and its your right as a taxpayer to get that info. btw there are some spots that are really close to the LM.

[HUNTERTREV]

just so everyone knows "whats the deal with guides" was just to get everyones attention to look at my post, i have nothing against guides or the fact that they are trying to make a living just like everyone else, just looking for advice and help in the area of goat hunting, without brakin the bank.

[Barracuda]

There are reasons why hunts cost money. Outfitters have to service debt like any other business. They have to pay their empolyees. They supply food and equipment. All factor into the equation.

As to what is up with the guides. Guides for the most part are heavily reliant on tips on top of the wage from the outfitter to make a living. Guys that want to do things as cheap as possible generally don't consider the work their guide does for them and don't leave an appropriate tip. Often the guy trying to do things cheap leave the guy that cooks for you, washes dishes, saddles your horse, finds your game, cares for the meat and cape, keeps you entertained in the slow times etc. less of a tip than you'd leave the waitress for the same number of meals in a restaraunt. That is part of the reason why outfiters don't often take residents. Their guides hate it. Bust your balls for ten days for some guy and he leaves you $100. Not fun.:twisted:

if you ever do go on a guided hunt budget for the tip. $100 per day or 10% of the cost of the hunt.

the tip thing i have a problem with.

not the actuall tip but the idea of calling it a tip.

It should be called something else because a great many people and cultures are not raised to give tips to people for performing duties expected of them in the normal course of employment.

perhaps presenting it a different way like calling it a guide bonus? and outlineing the minimum expectation for the client in terms of services.

That way they know that the guide truely took a personal interest in the client and gave them service beyond what it normal or basic.

[BiG Boar]

Lots of good goat areas and they are not in real high demand. Just put in your LEH. Pretty easy to find them, a good spotting scope is a great idea. I would definitley not get a guide. How much time off are you willing to take for a guided hunt? You could just as easy spend those days and find an area for yourself. Search goat hunt on here. There is one for auction at the wild sheep society weekend coming up. Might go for a fair price. Cheers, Dave

[Rodd]

Remember, Outfitters make all their money for the whole year in 3-4 months, thus the pricing of the hunts are to allow for maintenance, of trails and gear, horse feed etc for the entire year.

And in some instances resident hunters who go on a guided hunt with an outfitter, go home and tell everyone of there buddies about all the game they saw and where they saw it, how accesible it was, etc... all the outfitters life long knowledge... then they get all their buddies together and drive up and move into the area all on their own.... Not saying this wrong, just maybe the reason some outfitters don't bother with resident hunters... IMHO

[bridger]

There are reasons why hunts cost money. Outfitters have to service debt like any other business. They have to pay their empolyees. They supply food and equipment. All factor into the equation.

As to what is up with the guides. Guides for the most part are heavily reliant on tips on top of the wage from the outfitter to make a living. Guys that want to do things as cheap as possible generally don't consider the work their guide does for them and don't leave an appropriate tip. Often the guy trying to do things cheap leave the guy that cooks for you, washes dishes, saddles your horse, finds your game, cares for the meat and cape, keeps you entertained in the slow times etc. less of a tip than you'd leave the waitress for the same number of meals in a restaraunt. That is part of the reason why outfiters don't often take residents. Their guides hate it. Bust your balls for ten days for some guy and he leaves you $100. Not fun.:twisted:

if you ever do go on a guided hunt budget for the tip. $100 per day or 10% of the cost of the hunt.


i have been on guided hunts and i agree assistant guides work for their money, but i often wonder with the price of a sheep hunt in the upper limits why do outfitters not pay there assistant guides a decent wage. I know many outfitters in region 7 are having trouble getting quality guides locally because of low wages.