DARKWOODS! Great news!

[The Dude]

I've been quietly pestering the Nature Conservancy ever since I found out they bought out Darkwoods for conservation purposes. (I have been a supporter for years, and seem to get some nice prompt replies. Worth the money IMHO)
As many know, there has been a No Hunting policy in effect since the old owner, a German Baron, bought it years ago.

I have sent several letters to them over the past year. The following is my most recent:


Subject: Darkwoods
To: bcoffice@natureconservancy.ca
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 10:50 PM

Hello again:

I was in touch with your office re: Darkwoods a while back, concerning whether or not legal huntiing seasons might be observed in the area.
I was told ''Not at this time, due to the previous owners' wishes' (paraphrased)

As you well know, Darkwoods is one of the last strongholds of Mountain Caribou in BC, and the species is highly at risk. While I respect the owner's wishes, I'm not sure he realizes how much at risk the 'Boo are.'
What I'm getting at is that the Caribou have a much greater chance at making it in the medium and long term if predator hunting is allowed there. Wolves, bears and mountain lions all exist in Darkwoods, and take their toll on the herd.
Just for discussion at your next meetings: Would you be interested in allowing a small number of hunters into Darkwoods for predator control in order to mitigate herd predation on the endangered Caribou there? I'm sure you have Biologists you consult about such matters, so please feel free to gather all the info you can. I know many responsible, ethical hunters that would be willing to go and reduce the predation on the Caribou herd.
Please let me know
XXXX XXXXX



And here is the most recent response: (Today)

Hi again Mr XXXXX

Thanks for this email as well. I remember your questions about hunting on Darkwoods from a while back.
You will be pleased to know that we have now completed the property management plan for Darkwoods.
The management plan states that “Access for non-motorized hunting will be phased in on portions of the property in cooperation with the BC Ministry of Environment.”
You can read a summary of the management plan here: http://www.natureconservancy.ca/site/DocServer/Darkwoods_PMP_summary.pdf?docID=5621 (http://www.natureconservancy.ca/site/DocServer/Darkwoods_PMP_summary.pdf?docID=5621)
If you have any questions about this I encourage you to contact our Canadian Rockies Program Manager, Nancy Newhouse (cc’d). She will be able to speak in more depth about NCC’s work on Darkwoods.
All the very best,
Lesley ____________________________
Lesley Marian Neilson
Communications Manager, BC Region
Nature Conservancy of Canada


On the link, a PDF document, scroll down to page 13 if you wanna cut to the chase. I'm assuming the ''No Access'' areas are the caribou habitat, but it's a start! I guess I wasn't the only squeaky wheel. :D
The Dude Abides.

[Steeleco]

Well done Dude, persistence seems to have paid off.

[GoatGuy]

Finally, some good news out or the wk- nice job!

[Buck]

Excellant Dude :cool:You deserve a White Russian

[J_T]

It is good news. Non motorized will be quite restrictive in that country. It will be interesting to see how they define that.

[The Dude]

Excellant Dude :cool:You deserve a White Russian

I'll take that Caucasian, and buy you one! :D (I see someone else has seen the movie)
Just so we're clear, I'm just one of the tiny squeaky wheels in this, but the lesson is if we unite , we have a voice! We tend to get down on ourselves for not pulling together, but if everyone makes their voice heard (backed by votes and dollars) we can accomplish great things. I'm going to look into it further to find out what actually motivated this change of heart. Needless to say, I'll keep my small monthly donation to the Nature Conservancy. They are definitely NOT anti-hunting.

[Brambles]

They sure went into a lot of detail on the hunting......my guess is a small portion over by Creston will be open, long time you be waitin before they open other area's Me thinks.

[The Dude]

They sure went into a lot of detail on the hunting......my guess is a small portion over by Creston will be open, long time you be waitin before they open other area's Me thinks.

Hey, it's a start, right? We got our foot in a door that seemed permanently closed. Just have to make sure no jack-a$$es screw up and ruin it for the rest of us. If we behave as ethical, responsible hunters then we should get new opportunities.
I'll try to find out all I can, and update as I get new info.

[Bushman]

I'll take that Caucasian, and buy you one! :D (I see someone else has seen the movie)
Just so we're clear, I'm just one of the tiny squeaky wheels in this, but the lesson is if we unite , we have a voice! We tend to get down on ourselves for not pulling together, but if everyone makes their voice heard (backed by votes and dollars) we can accomplish great things. I'm going to look into it further to find out what actually motivated this change of heart. Needless to say, I'll keep my small monthly donation to the Nature Conservancy. They are definitely NOT anti-hunting.


Good job, Dude...the foot's in the door.
And, I'm also with you on the idea of a "united front of hunters" in BC with one strong voice. In my experience, it's the only way we are going to have future hunting (and fishing) opportunities here in BC.

[Fishhound]

Good job
You are right about a united front, Strength in Numbers

[Walking Buffalo]

Thanks can also go to the biologists developing the management plan for this property.

I know several of the biologists and ecosystem managers employed by the Nature Conservancy for Darkwoods. When the project was in it's initial development stage, hunting/fishing/berry-mushroom picking was not going to be allowed. These people worked hard to get these activities on the table, and are succeeding in opening up the opportunity for these sustainable land uses to the public.

The Nature Conservancy is not Anti-hunting, and hires people who will promote the activity.

[scope-bite]

They sure went into a lot of detail on the hunting......my guess is a small portion over by Creston will be open, long time you be waitin before they open other area's Me thinks.

I remember reading the same thing in the Canadian Geographic article. I think they are talking about opening the piece of Darkwoods property in upper Topaz/Toby Creek, which isn't a very big piece of land and is still protected by the Topaz road closure. The big question is whether they will open up the Newington Road to access Midgely, Shaw and Newington Creek. My guess is it will be non-motorized if it is opened at all...

[The Dude]

Thanks can also go to the biologists developing the management plan for this property.

I know several of the biologists and ecosystem managers employed by the Nature Conservancy for Darkwoods. When the project was in it's initial development stage, hunting/fishing/berry-mushroom picking was not going to be allowed. These people worked hard to get these activities on the table, and are succeeding in opening up the opportunity for these sustainable land uses to the public.

The Nature Conservancy is not Anti-hunting, and hires people who will promote the activity.

Yes, the Lion's share, to be sure. That's what I want to know, exactly what brought this about. I remember a very anti-Nature Conservancy thread that came out when Darkwoods was sold, and I know that the NC is not anti-hunting (I know because I get permission to hunt on their [my!] land), so I was a little put off. That's when I immediately started writing to them about looking into hunting opportunities, ans asking their Bio's what can be done. Looks like they were all over it anyway. :-)

As for the last post, the hunting that will open up will be all non-motorized, as per the PDF Document. Keeps out people that don't want to put the work in and burn up some boot leather. There's thousands of miles of roads in BC to drive and Quad on anyway for those with any physical limitations.
Let's hope it all goes well, and we, as a community behave in a respectful way, and maybe we'll get more areas opened up in years to come.
Cheers
The Dude

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I am one that has nothing good to say about the NCC in my area. Everything is closed to hunting, even access across their land to land beyond.
Here the NCC is buying ranches to save the predators in the area, namely the Grizzly, but as I was told, all predators.
They have also shut down access to a chain of lakes behind their property. The old road provided access for lots of fishermen and their families to enjoy the awesome fishing on the out of the way lakes. There is an ATV trail around their property but has a lot of dangerous sidehill and the retired locals are hesitant to use it.
Last year I asked for a written note saying I could cross their land to retreive my hounds (as I hiked a total of 4 miles one day to get them which is not a big deal except the hounds were 400 yards off the main road!!)
I said I would leave me gun in the truck when retrieving my dogs. That did not matter, there is no access for hunters and fisherman, period and you would be hunting.
I even played the "what if the bear has to sit in the tree all night so I can safely get my dogs in the day light" This is not fair to the bear or the dogs, especially in wolf country.
My experiance with the NCC and their biologists has not been positive. The biologists don't have a clue what they are doing and have their own agenda, which does not include hunting, atleast not in my neck of the woods.

[Devilbear]

I agree with CHB on this issue, the NCC has always impressed me as being another of these groups run by and for the "gucci bolsheviks" of urban Canada. I have little use and less respect for such people and they now dominate the "conservation" discussion in Canada, to our longterm loss.

The DW property SHOULD have been purchased by the provincial government at a reasonable price, OR, simply expropriated and then put back into the provincial working forest landbase. With REAL management, we could have outstanding hunting, fishing, timber harvesting and some mining there, as well as other forms of recreation. It has not been "wilderness" for a century and will never be REAL wilderness, again.

[The Dude]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. That's worth nothing. You can cry and whine all you want, but I for one have never had a problem with hunting on Conservancy lands if asked in a respectful manner.
This is a positive step forward. Well all ''claim'' to be conservationists, and want wild lands protected for future generations. This is what they are doing. They are NOT anti-hunting, and could be a good partner with the BCWF, the HCTF and others. Just because we can't get all we want, when we want it, some choose to curse the darkness.
I choose to light a candle.
It's reality, folks, strategical alliances with those that are organized.
We are not.
You don't like it?
Go raise a hundred million or so and buy it yourselves.
It could have gone to a much worse caretaker. MUCH worse.
Some of the opinions out there just make me sick. You do nothing, except whine and moan after the fact.
Cheers to all the positive comments on this thread, like I said, it's a foot in the door, let's move forward.

[Devilbear]

You do not know who I am, or, who CHB, Doug, is, or, the decades of intense activity I voluntarily engaged in to preserve West Kootenay wilderness, very probably before you were even born. Who are you to presume to come here and make some of the ignorant and highly offensive remarks that I have seen within the past few days?

I will match my wilderness experience, hunting and gun experience and skills and my West Kootenay pioneer heritage and birth against yours, any time you like and make you look like the posturing blowhard you appear to be. I am a member of one of the oldest families in the Waet Kootenays, was working for the BCFS when, not ... a German baron..., but, The Duke of Wurttemburg, bought the property from Marathon Realty and I know the area VERY well from many trips into it for many years before the sale.

MOST of the LOCAL residents STRONGLY OBJECTED to the giveaway of that land and most still do, which, you would be aware of, if you actually knew anything about the issue. Get your facts straight, before you dare to refer to me as any type of whiner; I will let Doug, CHB, respond as I know he can and will...and, both of us have a level of REAL bush experience that you cannot begin to match.

[ford1]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. That's worth nothing. You can cry and whine all you want, but I for one have never had a problem with hunting on Conservancy lands if asked in a respectful manner.
This is a positive step forward. Well all ''claim'' to be conservationists, and want wild lands protected for future generations. This is what they are doing. They are NOT anti-hunting, and could be a good partner with the BCWF, the HCTF and others. Just because we can't get all we want, when we want it, some choose to curse the darkness.
I choose to light a candle.
It's reality, folks, strategical alliances with those that are organized.
We are not.
You don't like it?
Go raise a hundred million or so and buy it yourselves.
It could have gone to a much worse caretaker. MUCH worse.
Some of the opinions out there just make me sick. You do nothing, except whine and moan after the fact.
Cheers to all the positive comments on this thread, like I said, it's a foot in the door, let's move forward.
All you got was polite lip service from Lesley Nielson (whom I personally know.)
I will guarantee you will never hunt so much as a squirrel in Darkwoods until at least 2020 and then it will only be non motorized vehicle access which is pretty useless for that vast land. Nonmotorized hunting was being considered in a small portion of the Topaz Creek area (Very very small area) but was shot down last spring, and the vast majority of the property will remain off limits, though NCC will loosen restrictions on such non-motorized recreation as hiking and biking only.
You need to keep in mind that NCC main priority for Darkwoods is the Caribou and Grizzly conservancy and that in it's self will shut hunters out of the area just like all the other closed areas do to the protected Caribou.
The duke laid down a tough list of conditions for the sale to NCC and they are binding and he also banned hunting there when it was Pluto Darkwoods.
Anyway that's my 2cents~

[Devilbear]

I seriously doubt, that any agreement for sale between a foreigner and a corporation, could withstand a widespread, longterm public campaign in BC to have it set aside by an act of the B.C. Legislature and the lands concerned expropriated...as, many Kootenay people, wanted to see from the beginning in the mid-'60s. I would support a legislative initiative that would do just that; this land came to Marathon through some pretty dubious dealing in the 19thC. and, I think, it could and should be regained for we who REALLY own it.

The '60s was the era of the great giveaways of BC and, especially, Kootenay lands and waters to benefit foreign interests and it is high time to reverse these destructive and traitorous decisions, any way we can.

[Gateholio]

You are a "noobie" here and do not know who I am, or.

He's got a different name but he is no "newbie" to HBC.:wink::tongue:

[Devilbear]

Point taken, post edited and I have posted what I consider appropriate in respect of his inchoate remarks and will ignore further such comments.

[scott h]

Seems to be a lot of access in the area around "Darkwoods". Why is everyone fighting over this piece of property when you can drive up and hunt logging roads in similar valleys not far away?:confused:

[Devilbear]

There are several traditional alpine fishing lakes in the DW land and these largely were planted with "Westslope Cutthroat Trout" back when; the guy who did this was a close neighbour of ours in Nelson and a good friend who helped us kids go fishing. My brother still has an English fly reel he gave my late brother Tom, over 50 years ago; the DW area is "home turf" to a lot of WK folks.

The hunting is excellent there and "Up the Bayonne" was a common hunting destination when I was young and STILL SHOULD BE. Huge areas of BC MUST NEVER be taken from the people to benefit ANY foreigner and this particular property should be OURS AGAIN and managed for "multiple use" by the BCFS and MOE with public input.

[gwillim]

I agree with CHB on this issue, the NCC has always impressed me as being another of these groups run by and for the "gucci bolsheviks" of urban Canada. I have little use and less respect for such people and they now dominate the "conservation" discussion in Canada, to our longterm loss.

The DW property SHOULD have been purchased by the provincial government at a reasonable price, OR, simply expropriated and then put back into the provincial working forest landbase. With REAL management, we could have outstanding hunting, fishing, timber harvesting and some mining there, as well as other forms of recreation. It has not been "wilderness" for a century and will never be REAL wilderness, again.

Funny to accuse people of being Bolsheviks, then in the next breath suggest expropriating their private property. Are you a buddy of Hugo Chavez by chance (insert winky face).

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Devilbear]

You need to think about the meaning of the term "gucci bolsheviks" a little more and you may understand my post.

There is nothing "Bolshie" about protecting one's heritage and the lands in question morally belong to me and people like me, however, this also may be difficult to comprehend.

This was NOT ...private property... in the usual sense of that term AND the entire situation is a disgrace.

[gwillim]

Yah,I know what you're saying, just trying to be a smart ass. My concern with the former Darkwoods Pluto, and the present incarnation, is access for recreation. I've got lots of places to hunt near where I live, but there is some pretty choice hiking/ski touring opportunities within their "no go" areas that I would like to access. At the same time I understand that there is a history of "bad apple" local hunters that have flaunted the "no hunting" designation and damaged gates etc...Not the way to build trust and co-operation.

[scope-bite]

The hunting is excellent there and "Up the Bayonne" was a common hunting destination when I was young and STILL SHOULD BE. Huge areas of BC MUST NEVER be taken from the people to benefit ANY foreigner and this particular property should be OURS AGAIN and managed for "multiple use" by the BCFS and MOE with public input.

Are you kidding me? Bayonne Creek isn't even part of the Darkwoods property. It still is a popular hunting destination, albeit bow-only now on the west side of the creek.

[bugler]

So...Lesley Nielson works for the Nature Conservancy, shirley you can't be serious!

[Devilbear]

Are you kidding me? Bayonne Creek isn't even part of the Darkwoods property. It still is a popular hunting destination, albeit bow-only now on the west side of the creek.

No, this was just used in general reference to that whole area, Blazed Creek, the Bayonne and the areas around there. So, it is merely an older term used when I was growing up in Nelson. There are several entry roads to the DW lands, as I am sure you are aware, sorry, for the confusion.

[The Dude]

So...Lesley Nielson works for the Nature Conservancy, shirley you can't be serious!


I am serious, and don't call me Shirley. ;-)

and Gwillim, funny stuff, keep up the good work. :mrgreen:

[Mark_S]

Being a Salmo boy myself and having grown up with a heritage of hunting and fishing in the area I will strong second a lot of Devil Bears remarks. However I for one am very excited that I can now again access areas that for many years before I would have been prosecuted for trespassing on.

I'm looking forward to more openings in the future.





So...Lesley Nielson works for the Nature Conservancy, shirley you can't be serious!

Lesley Nielson the actor recently passed away.

[The Dude]

Lesley Nielson the actor recently passed away.

Leslie Nielson the actor recently passed away. Born in Canada etc etc....
I met the guy, and worked with him, he was awesome, and he would find this funny. He used to carry around a remote-controlled fart machine, and use it on the crew. Damn good guy.
I look forward to exploring Darkwoods as well.....it has this ''Tolkien'' mystique about it now for me... :D Maybe it's the name.

[Devilbear]

If, you worked with Nielson, brother of the legendary "Yukon Eric Nielsen, D.F.C." among the few honest politicians in Canada, since Diefenbaker, what exactly did you do? Are you an actor, stuntman, movie extra or camera crew person? I have noticed a great deal of support for the NCC among those engaged in the popular "cultural" industry and thus am curious.

Have you ever actually been to the property in question and, if so, when and for how long? Have you any field forestry or wildlife/fisheries management experience and do you currently hold credentials in any of these disciplines?

MarkS, if he is whom I think he is, has the above and I also have a little experience in such endeavours; I think that Mark's mum worked with one of my sisters, now a successful business owner in Nelson, for the BCFS at Nelson District HQ, some years ago. He and I and some others here actually know the area, the industry and also the shenanigans that took place concerning DW back in the day.

I fail to see any humour in this situation, however, I do see a lot of comment from questionable sources., not only on HBC, but, in the media in general.

[gwillim]

So Mr. Devil you've got my curiosity going...my vague understanding of the Darkwoods history is that it was a railway grant originally, given out as incentive to get the area accessed by railways, encourage local development etc...then it was sold, I don't know to how many different outfits, and eventually to the Darkwoods people. Where is the treachery that you keep alluding to? Was it supposed to revert to crown land at some point? Was access promised then revoked?

I know a lot of shady things can happen in rural politics, so am curious what the story is with this chunk of property.

just so you know, I'm probably one of your favourite people, as 1) I live in the west kootenays (because I love it here), 2) i am a forest professional who worked his way up from treeplanter to forest tech to RPF, 3) I spend every spare minute I have running around the west kootenay mountains (including Darkwoods). I also have several German friends (including my wife) who moved here because they LOVE the wilderness, and appreciate what we have here in a way that few Canadians really do.

[Devilbear]

It may be rather difficult to explain how a Kootenay person like me feels about some of the land issues from the '60s; it is certainly well beyond the scope of this forum and one requires a level of knowledge of BC and Canadian history not usually found in most people today, native Canucks and immigrants alike......Trudeau saw to that......

The handle I use here is an old trapper's term for the ferocious Mustelid, Gulo gulo, my choice came from a comment by my wife when I apprehended a housebreaker here one evening. She said something to the effect, "God, Dewey, you are like a Wolverine when you get angry, I thought you would strangle that guy!"....so, I used it here.

I have no idea who you are, so, I rather doubt that I would entertain any feelings about you, in any case. I do not prefer RPF's to security guards, or,RNs, neurosurgeons or janitors, I choose my friends on the basis of honour and have had beloved friends who were forest pros., alcoholic labourers and university professors. So, old boy, you seem to misunderstand me in that and some other respects.

I have no idea what German extraction has to do with this or my opinions on the situation. I have had friends from Germany since I was a little kid in the '50s, have what some would call a "German" surname, among the very oldest in the Kootenays and generally like and respect German people. But, my closest friend is an "Asian" and refers to himself as "coloured"....lucky bugger NEVER sunburns! So, I am not sure that I can assist with your queries and will think about them, overnight and perhaps post or PM you in the morning when I am mentally fresher.

I have been studying Phillpot's "Bloody Victory", the latest and, IMO, finest serious historical study of "The Somme"; my maternal grandfather, Capt. D.N. McCallum, C.E.F, served there at "Courcelette" and is buried in the cemetery on the Rossland hill, above Trail. This superb book tends to "take it out" of one and I am about "done" for this evening.

[Farmer001]

Interesting reading to say the least, alot of history here on what happened in the past. For what it is worth, have them protect the predators, in time the wolves will be there and there will be no caribou to worry about or any other game for that matter. In my few years I have learned gates only keep out the honest people, and promote retaliation.

[gwillim]

It may be rather difficult to explain how a Kootenay person like me feels about some of the land issues from the '60s; it is certainly well beyond the scope of this forum and one requires a level of knowledge of BC and Canadian history not usually found in most people today, native Canucks and immigrants alike......Trudeau saw to that......

The handle I use here is an old trapper's term for the ferocious Mustelid, Gulo gulo, my choice came from a comment by my wife when I apprehended a housebreaker here one evening. She said something to the effect, "God, Dewey, you are like a Wolverine when you get angry, I thought you would strangle that guy!"....so, I used it here.

I have no idea who you are, so, I rather doubt that I would entertain any feelings about you, in any case. I do not prefer RPF's to security guards, or,RNs, neurosurgeons or janitors, I choose my friends on the basis of honour and have had beloved friends who were forest pros., alcoholic labourers and university professors. So, old boy, you seem to misunderstand me in that and some other respects.

I have no idea what German extraction has to do with this or my opinions on the situation. I have had friends from Germany since I was a little kid in the '50s, have what some would call a "German" surname, among the very oldest in the Kootenays and generally like and respect German people. But, my closest friend is an "Asian" and refers to himself as "coloured"....lucky bugger NEVER sunburns! So, I am not sure that I can assist with your queries and will think about them, overnight and perhaps post or PM you in the morning when I am mentally fresher.

I have been studying Phillpot's "Bloody Victory", the latest and, IMO, finest serious historical study of "The Somme"; my maternal grandfather, Capt. D.N. McCallum, C.E.F, served there at "Courcelette" and is buried in the cemetery on the Rossland hill, above Trail. This superb book tends to "take it out" of one and I am about "done" for this evening.

I've read one historian who wrote that the Somme was to the English what the holocaust was to the European Jews.

[The Dude]

.......... *Sigh*

This thread was taken sideways pretty quickly. :-(

I have emails out to different folks at the NCC, waiting to hear back re: Grizzly hunt AAH (If any), and specifics about hunting areas and access permits.
Will update when I know. Cheers

[gwillim]

.......... *Sigh*

This thread was taken sideways pretty quickly. :-(

I have emails out to different folks at the NCC, waiting to hear back re: Grizzly hunt AAH (If any), and specifics about hunting areas and access permits.
Will update when I know. Cheers

Hey, it went at least 3 pages without going absolutely off the rails! Pretty good for this site. Sorry if I contributed to the straying topics (insert bashful face). I am looking forward to further developments in the Darkwood access policy.

[Devilbear]

Gwillim, the two historical events have nothing in common and are not even remotely similar.

The term I use concerning the selloff of BC lands/resources, "traitors" is because that is how I view those in power who sell or alienate our natural heritage as when these lands were not regained from Marathon Realty in the '60s and were allowed to pass to a foreign owner, The Duke of Wurttemberg.

I also am most interested in just how this plays out and I very strongly feel that the lands should be open to all BC citizens for hunting/angling, with the exception of such areas actually necessary for Caribou conservation. These animals were sufficiently numerous in my youth that a GOS was in effect, but, several factors have greatly reduced their numbers.

I seem to recall that some government funding went into the purchase of the property from the DofW and this should be considered in terms of public uses of the area. Can anyone give greater detail on this aspect of the situation?

[gwillim]

From the Canadian Geographic article..."As the closing date loomed, Environment Canada’s Natural Areas Conservation Program bestowed $185 million to NCC, with $25 million going to Darkwoods. Other funds began to flow, but not nearly enough. So, for the first time in its history, NCC went to the bank and borrowed a large sum."

The Federal Govt also funds National Parks with tax dollars, but hunting is not allowed there. Not sure that the use of public funds is a guarantee of public access for hunting and fishing.

[16ga]

Good luck Dude,

Reading the comments made by the Darkwoods managers and NCC in the Canadian Geographic article and reading the land use plan, I am not to optimistic that much of the area will be opened up for recreational users of any type, certainly not hunting.

[The Dude]

16ga....did you read the PDF I posted in the original thread-starter? Hunting will certainly be allowed, just trying to find out how much, and where at this point.
Gwillim: Do you have a link for this article in Canadian Geo?
Back on track...... **Whew**

[gwillim]

Link to Canadian Geographic article...http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/magazine/jf11/conserving_darkwoods.asp

[16ga]

[quote=The Dude;870356]16ga....did you read the PDF I posted in the original thread-starter? Hunting will certainly be allowed, just trying to find out how much, and where at this point.

Yes, and I have it as well, I think they have been pretty clear on where the hunting will be allowed (pretty limited). I guess I was unclear on what you were trying to do, I thought you were trying to open up a significant portion to hunting, if you are, Good luck ( and I mean that in a good way not sarcastically).

If you read the CG article I think you will see that there is a rather negative attitude towards recreational users. The lets keep "slop hunters" attitude is still there I think. But is it not limited to hunting, as you can see there is a rather negative attitude to "kayakers", "ATV", "Campers" and other users.

It is nice country, see if you can get a permit to go in and look around if you haven't been there, it seems like you have developed a positive relationship with NCC so you may get the chance.

I look forward to hearing how things go.

[The Dude]

Just got another email from NCC. Looks the the headwaters of Topaz and Toby Creeks. Still a good sized area. Hope this gets bigger as we have some conflict-free hunting.
One thing the last email mentioned is that you have to get a draw from the Creston Valley Rod and Gun Club, who'll be managing hunting access. (Besides the Darkwoods Permit, which is free)
Anyone here know anyone there? First I heard of this. Wonder if priority will be given to CVR&GC members? If it's anything like LEH, I'll just give up right now. :D (JK)
Time for another email...... *Sigh*

[The Dude]

From my latest correspondence, they're looking into the BCWF Passport Program as an aide to allowing more access.
Anyone get one of these yet?
What's your opinion on this program?

[J_T]

Is the program restricted to BCWF members only?

[The Dude]

I believe you have to be a member, yes. Carries two million liability insurance, and a promise of commitment to fair chase and land/landowner respect.
You can check it out at the BCWF website. The NCC is currently considering a BCWF passport as a prerequisite to a hunting access permit.
I plan on doing some scouting there this summer, and seeing if all the hoops are worth it.

[The Dude]

Don't know if it's good news or bad news, but get your Passports boys and girls!