Helicopter charter?

[BiG Boar]

I found this list for Spatsizi charter companies. Are you allowed to hire a helicopter to charter you into a lake? I will be hunting once dropped off. My guess is no, but maybe there is an exception?

Permitted Air Charter Companies for Spatsizi Plateau Wilderness Provincial Park:

North Pacific Seaplanes Float plane base located on Tatogga Lake near Iskut, BC (250) 234-3525 or call Tatogga Lake Resort at (250) 234-3526
Alpine Lakes Air Ltd. Float plane base located on Tyhee Lake near Telkwa, BC (250) 846-9488
Pacific Western Helicopters Ltd. Dease Lake, BC (250) 771-5911
Canadian Helicopters Ltd. Smithers, BC (250) 847-9444
Vancouver Island Helicopters Ltd. Head Office, Sidney, BC (250) 656-3987

[finngun]

answer is yes,but most big game hunting you have to wait next day before hunting...
please check regs...to be sure...

[BCrams]

No exceptions.

If you're successful on a Spatsizzi moose, sheep, goat or caribou LEH draw then you'll either want to hike in, fly in with float plane, or seeing how you used horses last year, I'd go use horses again given the trail network in the park.

[Tenacious Billy]

answer is yes,but most big game hunting you have to wait next day before hunting...
please check regs...to be sure...

The regs seem pretty clear - "It is unlawful to hunt or transport hunters or wildlife by helicopter." I would say NO.....

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I imagine the list of approved charters are for all users...not necessarily hunters.
You could charter a helicopter for hiking or fishing without a problem.

SSS

[ChilliwackWinchester]

Page 18, rule 24... as noted above, pretty clear.

[BiG Boar]

finngun? any loophole?

[Fisher-Dude]

Unless you're a guide outfitter who can break the rule and get away with it:

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2004/02/p04_0212.htm

[finngun]

The regs seem pretty clear - "It is unlawful to hunt or transport hunters or wildlife by helicopter." I would say NO.....

hec-you are right,im never too old to learn new tricks

only question is ,,what is diff..carry hunters by helic. on float plane??? my brane[or whatever is there] is twisting??:mrgreen: can anybody helpppp?

[Tenacious Billy]

hec-you are right,im never too old to learn new tricks

only question is ,,what is diff..carry hunters by helic. on float plane??? my brane[or whatever is there] is twisting??:mrgreen: can anybody helpppp?

Likely due to the fact that helicopters make immediately accessible far more area(s) than travelling by plane....Allowing helicopters would, arguably, undermine the whole idea of "fair chase".......

[Tenacious Billy]

finngun? any loophole?

Lame..........

[rocksteady]

My thoughts Finn Gunn.....

A fixed wing float plane can only land on certain (long enough) bodies of water, so only certain locations to stop..... Shooting an animal from a fixed wing would be damn difficult.....

Helicopter, can land alot more places, so potential to a) Hover and shoot a critter b) Land and let a hunter out closer to an animal c) Helicopter could be used to long line out animal.....


I am assuming that the legislation is there because someone/sometime/somewhere used a helicopter to hunt and it was not "fair chase", or was advantageous to a rich hunter (cause I can't afford a heli)...

[Gateholio]

Unless you're a guide outfitter who can break the rule and get away with it:

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2004/02/p04_0212.htm



If I am reading this correctly (and I think I am) you are not a hunter until you start hunting.

So you can use a helicopter to drop you and your spike camp on the top of a mountain and your buddy can walk up the mountain with the rifles.

Only then do you start "hunting" and therefore become a "hunter" and therefore cannot use the helicopter.

[finngun]

thanx rock.. and others...
rock---I am assuming that the legislation is there because someone/sometime/somewhere used a helicopter to hunt and it was not "fair chase", or was advantageous to a rich hunter (cause I can't afford a heli)...
like sarah palin shooting wolfes from copt...??
i like to try that--kidding..noooo

[Whisky Creek]

I found this list for Spatsizi charter companies. Are you allowed to hire a helicopter to charter you into a lake? I will be hunting once dropped off. My guess is no, but maybe there is an exception?

Permitted Air Charter Companies for Spatsizi Plateau Wilderness Provincial Park:

North Pacific Seaplanes Float plane base located on Tatogga Lake near Iskut, BC (250) 234-3525 or call Tatogga Lake Resort at (250) 234-3526
Alpine Lakes Air Ltd. Float plane base located on Tyhee Lake near Telkwa, BC (250) 846-9488
Pacific Western Helicopters Ltd. Dease Lake, BC (250) 771-5911
Canadian Helicopters Ltd. Smithers, BC (250) 847-9444
Vancouver Island Helicopters Ltd. Head Office, Sidney, BC (250) 656-3987

No, you can't BigBore. Also, being that the cost for helicopter flight is quite expensive compared to fixed wing, if the lake is large enough to accomodate a float plane, that would still be your best means of access for any activities even where a helicopter would be legal.
Anyone can fly you into the parks if they purchase a "parks use permit". The cost is $1000 per year per park, or a blanket permit for most of the parks up there for $1500 if I remember correctly. The list might not be up to date, depending on where you got it????? I believe there is also a couple of other fixed wing outfits who had the permit last year.
A permit is not required for flights conducting work for BC Parks.

[Island Redneck]

Unless you're a guide outfitter who can break the rule and get away with it:

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2004/02/p04_0212.htm

Hey Fisher-Dude, glad to see you got your dailly insult in on GO.s early today, you can start working on tomorrows half truths and misleading information.:mrgreen:.

[bandit]

Even Texas has banned heli-hunting - no chance it will ever happen in BC!

[vortex]

As far as I know the only place in Canada that helicopters can legally be used to transport hunters and meat is the NWT. There is still a 12 hour waiting period after flying. Newfounland or Labrador did allow it years ago but I'm not sure if they still do.

[Whisky Creek]

Gatehouse,

I might be wrong, but my guess is that any helicopter operator up there (including myself), has a lot better places to spend money than on lawyers proving additional "test cases" in court. I did review that case after it was posted the other day in another thread and it seems to me to be like you'd be walking a tight rope. It seems clear to me that the "spirit of the regulation" when it was written and became law was to prevent the use of helicopters in hunting in BC. In that particular case it looks like the defense lawyer did a real good job of picking apart the shitty wording in the regulation in order to gain an aquittal for his client. The gov't should have initiated their own amendment to the act in this section when they were conducting the wildlife act review a couple years ago. Well, when they were "supposed to" conduct the W.A. review.......

In BigBore's original question, even if a hunter was able to convince an operator to do the flight for him, he would still be screwed in that he would need to get his rifle into the lake by another means and if successful on his hunt, would have to find a different way to get the meat / wildlife and firearm back out. In the noted case, there seemed to be some weight given to the fact that there was no firearm on the flight.

[huntcoop]

Hey Fisher-Dude, glad to see you got your dailly insult in on GO.s early today, you can start working on tomorrows half truths and misleading information.:mrgreen:.

Where in what he posted is a half truth and misleading information? He posted a link that is pretty black and white to me.

[Island Redneck]

Where in what he posted is a half truth and misleading information? He posted a link that is pretty black and white to me.

Unless you're a guide outfitter who can break the rule and get away with it:

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/jud...2/p04_0212.htm


After some of the posts back and forth yesterday, I kind of ment it as a joke, BUT;

It wasnt the Outfitter in the hellicopter, it was a hunter traveling to his hunt destination and the Judge said the Crown didnt prove anybody broke any laws or rules.

[Gateholio]

Gatehouse,

I might be wrong, but my guess is that any helicopter operator up there (including myself), has a lot better places to spend money than on lawyers proving additional "test cases" in court. I did review that case after it was posted the other day in another thread and it seems to me to be like you'd be walking a tight rope. It seems clear to me that the "spirit of the regulation" when it was written and became law was to prevent the use of helicopters in hunting in BC. In that particular case it looks like the defense lawyer did a real good job of picking apart the shitty wording in the regulation in order to gain an aquittal for his client. The gov't should have initiated their own amendment to the act in this section when they were conducting the wildlife act review a couple years ago. Well, when they were "supposed to" conduct the W.A. review.......
.

Be alot cheaper now as the president has been set.

The judge specifically mentions how it must be determined if he was hunting at the time of the helicopter ride, and that "preparing for a hunt" is not hunting.

The door is wide open here.

It looks like this ruling gives a green light for a resident hunter to drop off his gear on the top of a mountain in sheep country and walk (or fly via fixed wing) in with their rifles to their camp and start hunting. They would have to pack out their rams and rifles themselves, but they could have the chopper come and pick up their camp for the ride home, as they are no longer hunting at that point.

[burger]

7. On August 19th, Mr. Jersey flew by helicopter from the Ranch to a base camp ("Viser Camp") some 25 air miles north of the Ranch.
8. Also on August 19th, Mr. Schippmann flew from the Ranch to Viser Camp by fixed wing aircraft.
9. Later on August 19th, Mr. Schippmann left Viser Camp and returned to the Ranch after making sure everything was in order.
10. Mr. Jersey spent the night at Viser Camp.
11. On August 20th, Mr. Jersey began hunting, travelling by horseback from Viser Camp to another campsite ("Caribou Camp") under supervision of assistant guides.
12. Mr. Jersey hunted in the area around Caribou Camp during the period from August 20th to 29th.
13. On August 30th, Mr. Jersey flew back to the Ranch from the Viser Camp by helicopter.
14. Hunting equipment was carried in the helicopter during the flights mentioned, but no firearms.
15. Mr. Schippmann knew about the occasions when Mr. Jersey flew by helicopter, and he had that knowledge at all times material to this proceeding.There was no proof he brought his own guns in the Helicopter but...would you all give up your guns?

How did the guns get home?

Sorry back on topic.

[CanuckShooter]

Be alot cheaper now as the president has been set.

The judge specifically mentions how it must be determined if he was hunting at the time of the helicopter ride, and that "preparing for a hunt" is not hunting.

The door is wide open here.

It looks like this ruling gives a green light for a resident hunter to drop off his gear on the top of a mountain in sheep country and walk (or fly via fixed wing) in with their rifles to their camp and start hunting. They would have to pack out their rams and rifles themselves, but they could have the chopper come and pick up their camp for the ride home, as they are no longer hunting at that point.


Apparently there are silos? used as cabins. high up the mountains around McBride...they heli in gear, grubb, etc and the hunters hike up.....never heard if they get a ride down but this is being done in some fashion already.

[Mr. Dean]

There was no proof he brought his own guns in the Helicopter but...would you all give up your guns?

How did the guns get home?


Maybe he borrowed one from the outfit???

[huntcoop]

....It wasnt the Outfitter in the hellicopter, it was a hunter traveling to his hunt destination and the Judge said the Crown didnt prove anybody broke any laws or rules.



Agreed Statement of Facts
1. Mr. Jersey and Mr. Schippmann are 2 of 7 shareholders of Liard River Adventures Ltd. ("Liard Adventures").

[Island Redneck]

Agreed Statement of Facts
1. Mr. Jersey and Mr. Schippmann are 2 of 7 shareholders of Liard River Adventures Ltd. ("Liard Adventures").

Schippmann is the outfitter, Jersey might be a part owner, but on this occasion he was the hunter. ( according to the Judge)

[bcyukonair]

I found this list for Spatsizi charter companies. Are you allowed to hire a helicopter to charter you into a lake? I will be hunting once dropped off. My guess is no, but maybe there is an exception?

Permitted Air Charter Companies for Spatsizi Plateau Wilderness Provincial Park:

North Pacific Seaplanes Float plane base located on Tatogga Lake near Iskut, BC (250) 234-3525 or call Tatogga Lake Resort at (250) 234-3526
Alpine Lakes Air Ltd. Float plane base located on Tyhee Lake near Telkwa, BC (250) 846-9488
Pacific Western Helicopters Ltd. Dease Lake, BC (250) 771-5911
Canadian Helicopters Ltd. Smithers, BC (250) 847-9444
Vancouver Island Helicopters Ltd. Head Office, Sidney, BC (250) 656-3987
also bcyukonair [dease lk 250 771 3232] can fly into the park.

[elkdom]

years ago a guided non-resident hunter was thrown from a horse, broken shoulder, broken ribs, internal bleeding, we requested a chopper working O&G nearby to evac the injured hunter,the pilot offered free mercy flight to FtNelson 200 klms one way,
under NO circumstance would he allow my or the hunters' rifles on board his chopper, a three hour drive by road and a 5 hour by foot to hike back and get my and the hunters rifles the following day,
chopper pilots will only allow, Police, MOE and Parks Wardens with firearms on Board during a flight,
NO civilian firearms period!

[boxhitch]

years ago a guided non-resident hunter was thrown from a horse, broken shoulder, broken ribs, internal bleeding, we requested a chopper working O&G nearby to evac the injured hunter,the pilot offered free mercy flight to FtNelson 200 klms one way,
Ouch ! How did that call go down? Radio/Tel to another camp ?

[elkdom]

Ouch ! How did that call go down? Radio/Tel to another camp ?

we had sent a rider to call out on radio phone, but in the meanwhile the chopper pilot spotted us, I had lit 3 small very smokey fires about 50 feet apart,pilot landed about I00 yards from us on the river, the chopper probably saved the guys life, hunter had punctured lung, and was diabetic on top of it all, the injured hunter was medivacted to Vancouver where he spent several days in ICU, then went back USA,
never met the pilot again,

eventually the GBear that charged the horses died from something,,,,,,,,,,,
, I cant seem to remember the details tho ,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Ambush]

NO civilian firearms period!
Wrong.

This is why folks should never turn to the web for legal info. If you REALY want to know something, go to the officials in charge.

[elkdom]

Wrong.

This is why folks should never turn to the web for legal info. If you REALY want to know something, go to the officials in charge.

YOU tell the pilots that refuse firearms on-board their helicopters, they are wrong,

you will be walking your a$$ to where you want to go, and the pilots that refuse firearms aboard ? if they find you smuggled one contrary to their saying NOT TO? you will be walking from there on in,,,, with your gun and your lonesome !

[olharley guy]

YOU tell the pilots that refuse firearms on-board their helicopters, they are wrong,

you will be walking your a$$ to where you want to go, and the pilots that refuse firearms aboard ? if they find you smuggled one contrary to their saying NOT TO? you will be walking from there on in,,,, with your gun and your lonesome !

Howdy, must have different rules in the Yukon-all the geologists, prospectors etc. took their sidearms or rifles with them in helicopters to the areas where they would be working back and forth. No problem at all.

Mind you-they were not hunting. Later

[Ambush]

YOU tell the pilots that refuse firearms on-board their helicopters, they are wrong

you will be walking your a$$ to where you want to go, and the pilots that refuse firearms aboard ? if they find you smuggled one contrary to their saying NOT TO? you will be walking from there on in,,,, with your gun and your lonesome !
Thanks for that, but you're still wrong.

[Whisky Creek]

years ago a guided non-resident hunter was thrown from a horse, broken shoulder, broken ribs, internal bleeding, we requested a chopper working O&G nearby to evac the injured hunter,the pilot offered free mercy flight to FtNelson 200 klms one way,
under NO circumstance would he allow my or the hunters' rifles on board his chopper, a three hour drive by road and a 5 hour by foot to hike back and get my and the hunters rifles the following day,
chopper pilots will only allow, Police, MOE and Parks Wardens with firearms on Board during a flight,
NO civilian firearms period!


Not quite accurate there Elkdom. In the case you've described it was a good idea for the pilot to make that demand under the circumstances in order to cover his ass, and being the pilot in command of the flight, he can demand whatever he wants. However, aside from the situation with hunters, very often I have customers with firearms on board. Mineral exploration, wildlife personnel, forestry personnel etc. I always carry a firearm on board myself as well. Transport Canada came out with a new stupid blanket regulation under the Canadian Aviation Security Regulations concerning the carriage of firearms on board a commercial flight a few years ago. The stupid part is that the intent was to further prohibit firearms from being accessible to passengers on board commercial scheduled airplane flights, but it failed to consider the smaller remote operators and non-scheduled commercial helicopter operations and how it would affect their operation. Even when that regulation came into force, it still allowed for the carriage of firearms where they were not accessible to the passengers during flight. Even with that, many pilots continue to allow unloaded customer firearms in the machine in the same way as they always have and to date I've never heard of an operator or pilot in the country being called on it.

Excerpt from the regulation "22. An air carrier that transports an unloaded firearm that is contained in checked baggage or accepted cargo must store the firearm in the aircraft so that it is not accessible to any person on board the aircraft other than crew members."

As I said though, the PIC can demand what he wants on his flight over and above the regulations. In your case, security wasn't likely his concern, rather being implicated with transporting hunters would have been the motivation for his demand.

CLINT

[blackbart]

I have taken many helicopter flights with a twelve gauge in tow. I always emptied the magazine, but never had a pilot ask to see if the gun was empty. I have also been on board may a whirly bird with the guy sitting next to me packing a handgun! All of this was done while working in the Forest industry.

Pretty sure that the pilots and heli companies knew the rules at the time.

[moosinaround]

I have flown with many chopper pilots over the years and not once did they refuse me with my 12ga. They did request that any bear spray be stowed in the rear compartment. I have flown with guys that had handguns as well. All firearms were in the rear cargo compartment unloaded. Actually never heard of someone getting refused a flight because of a firearm present?? Most pilots know what forestry/oil and gas folks go through on the ground and the critter protection issues. After all they are the ones that usually carry out the dead or badly magled human bodies from critter attacks!!! Moosin

[M.Dean]

I believe your allowed Firearms on a Chopper. My Daughters Father in Law has flown them for about 30 years, and he has lots of hunting story's, from NFL to B.C. I think when going into camp with a Chopper there's a wait time before you can hunt, 24 or 48 hours I THINK! I heard his story of when he recieved a award for flying Under Fire! He was at Guftason Lake Stand Off years ago, and one of the bad guys decided to shoot his Chopper down! He said Boy, was there a lot of holes in it, but it still flew good!

[BCrams]

I've never been refused a firearm (defender) aboard a helicopter for work. Standard safety regarding firearm to be unloaded and bearspray in the back compartment being the norm.

[msawyer]

He was at Guftason Lake Stand Off years ago, and one of the bad guys decided to shoot his Chopper down! He said Boy, was there a lot of holes in it, but it still flew good!

Mr. Dean...

I call bull****... Being very familiar with the event, I am not aware of any aircraft, civilian or otherwise, that took fire from the ground... Unless it was another lie concocted by the RCMP to distort and/or cover-up what really happened there... Having said that I would be happy to be "proven" wrong... But I'm not holding my breath...

For example of what went on at Gustafsen Lake, read the linked Tyee article is article, and more importantly, watch the video...

http://thetyee.ca/News/2009/10/20/GustafsenStandOff/

Take care

Mike

[Steeleco]

So what has any of the last 20 or so posts got to do with the OP question??

He was asking the legalities of hunting after being taken in by Helicopter. If you guys want to start another shit storm over guides and any past digressions start another thread.

Closed