Frame Pack Vs. Internal Frame pack

[andrewheth]

Hi guys maybe you can help me out on this one. I am getting outfitted this year with the equipment neccessary to overnight in my favourite hunting areas. I am looking for a pack to pack out meat and my tent, sleeping bag etc. I realize that the internal frame packs are more comfortable than the old style external frame packs but I am after the better one as functionality. I think the external would be better for meat but am I wrong? Let me know what you guys think on this one.

[mark]

Hi guys maybe you can help me out on this one. I am getting outfitted this year with the equipment neccessary to overnight in my favourite hunting areas. I am looking for a pack to pack out meat and my tent, sleeping bag etc. I realize that the internal frame packs are more comfortable than the old style external frame packs but I am after the better one as functionality. I think the external would be better for meat but am I wrong? Let me know what you guys think on this one.

If your hauling meat, do it 100% boneless!!! then it dont much matter which style you go with!
Find a good quality pack your comfortable wearing! You'll spend many days with it on your back, and only hours hauling meat!
I run the MR 7500 nice combo, love it!

[Everett]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=62928

Buy this the best system money can buy.

[MuleyMadness]

x2

That's a great price for that. Plus if you don't find you like the particular pack that he's included, you can order a bigger or different one, and not have to buy the whole suspension/frame again/shelf again.

Hmmm maybe I just talked myself into it :)

[andrewheth]

If your hauling meat, do it 100% boneless!!! then it dont much matter which style you go with!
Find a good quality pack your comfortable wearing! You'll spend many days with it on your back, and only hours hauling meat!
I run the MR 7500 nice combo, love it!


I guess if I do it boneless the internal would be fine. I would also like to use the pack for several hiking trips/scouting trips in the summer so I guess I will look at some interal options. I will let Cabelas outfit me with my dream pack in a couple of months!:-D

[greenhorn]

If you've got the cash I'd get a new external. The newer high end externals fit really well and IMO are better if you need to haul both meat and stuff like rifles/axes. Check out some of the high end externals made by tatonka, barney's etc. I made my own external with a custom harness system that was taken from an internal frame pack. It fits awesome.

I used an internal for about 6 yrs and never liked it. It may have just been my pack, others on this site seem to really like theirs. Whenever I had a load over say 30lbs, it just felt like junk, poorly balanced etc.

[Moose Guide]

I use a frame pack and wouldn't trade it for anything!!!

[JustinC]

This is the pack I use.It is more than capable of hauling anything you will ever need.Also if you need or want to take off the bag to haul gear it works great for that as well.I bought mine from them as well great service and fast shipping.
http://www.deakin.com/shop/products/?p=6023

[greenhorn]

This is the pack I use.It is more than capable of hauling anything you will ever need.Also if you need or want to take off the bag to haul gear it works great for that as well.I bought mine from them as well great service and fast shipping.
http://www.deakin.com/shop/products/?p=6023

I really like those tatonkas. I think the v2 harness system they mention is nice too, if it's the one I'm thinking, it's fully adjustable so you can really get a good fit. You could loosen it up if you're wearing heavy winter clothes, then adjust it back down for the summer.

The tatonka is the pack that I modeled mine after.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/pack1.jpg

[mod7rem]

I have used both and I prefer the internals. I debone all meat that I pack. I find the internals are better for all around use and comfort. External frames are wider, so if you do alot of bushwhacking they are a pain or in cliffy mountainous terrain that wide frame can catch when you dont expect it. I have experienced all this so I prefer a good internal. I am a smaller guy so these issues might not apply to a big guy. If you buy a good(expensive) internal frame it will handle all the weight that you can and you can use it for any type of hiking. They compress nice and sleek for day hikes, they are quieter(not as much creaking and groaning).

[paw325]

Like Mark I use the Mystery Ranch Nice Series exclusively. The one in the pic below is the 6500.

It has in it or attached to it, 1/2 deboned ram c/w cape and horns, 1 wolf hide, tent, sleeping bag, sleeping mat, spotter, spotter tripod, skinning gear, 1 x 1 liter water bottle, spare clothes etc. Fortunately or unfortunately (depends how you look at it) we were out of food by that point so didn't have that to worry about. Yes I know the sheep is food, we ate on that ram for 2 days.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/peter338/Palmerlake069.jpg

[greenhorn]

Don't want to sound weird or nothing, but you look like a real stud muffin in that picture :mrgreen: Nice pack!

On the comment of squeeky external packs - the good ones don't squeek. The ones that squeek are the ancient ones that have dowel pins holding the straps in place.


Like Mark I use the Mystery Ranch Nice Series exclusively. The one in the pic below is the 6500.

It has in it or attached to it, 1/2 deboned ram c/w cape and horns, 1 wolf hide, tent, sleeping bag, sleeping mat, spotter, spotter tripod, skinning gear, 1 x 1 liter water bottle, spare clothes etc. Fortunately or unfortunately (depends how you look at it) we were out of food by that point so didn't have that to worry about. Yes I know the sheep is food, we ate on that ram for 2 days.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/peter338/Palmerlake069.jpg

[Devilbear]

ALL packs with heavy loads will squeak to some extent and I have owned about 30 different ones since the late '50s. The internal-external debate is rather pointless as the best examples of each both have benefits depending on the type of load/country you are using them in. I would not want to use my MR 6500 to carry firewood to an alpine fire lookout or use my Dana Design externals to climb or ski with.

If, you pack large, irregular loads in generally moderate terrain, i.e., Moose or Elk pieces in the Muskwa, an external is probably a bit better a choice as it is easier to fit these on the pack without major "surgery". If, you pack boned sheep or mulies, a good internal is a bit more manuverable in really rugged country and is a bit easier to use in dense bush. "Horses for courses" and one should have a good pack of each type for all BC hunting, IME.

Not to offend anyone, however, I introduced MR NICE packs to this site and had among the first produced and have had and used eleven Dana Gleason packs, just sold one more and now have eight. With that, I would suggest that the pack shown is not correctly adjusted for the gentleman wearing it; the harness could be a bit higher and thus the lifters would be better positioned.....try it and see if you can stand straighter as bending under a pack is what cramps your lungs and intercostal muscles and this makes breathing more difficult.

There should be a little clearance between the top-rear of the shoulders and the pack shoulder straps, even under load and a re-arrangement of the Daypack Lid pocket position and load will allow this if the harness is slightly higher. Again, just a suggestion meant to help, not a criticism.

[paw325]

ALL packs with heavy loads will squeak to some extent and I have owned about 30 different ones since the late '50s. The internal-external debate is rather pointless as the best examples of each both have benefits depending on the type of load/country you are using them in. I would not want to use my MR 6500 to carry firewood to an alpine fire lookout or use my Dana Design externals to climb or ski with.

If, you pack large, irregular loads in generally moderate terrain, i.e., Moose or Elk pieces in the Muskwa, an external is probably a bit better a choice as it is easier to fit these on the pack without major "surgery". If, you pack boned sheep or mulies, a good internal is a bit more manuverable in really rugged country and is a bit easier to use in dense bush. "Horses for courses" and one should have a good pack of each type for all BC hunting, IME.

Not to offend anyone, however, I introduced MR NICE packs to this site and had among the first produced and have had and used eleven Dana Gleason packs, just sold one more and now have eight. With that, I would suggest that the pack shown is not correctly adjusted for the gentleman wearing it; the harness could be a bit higher and thus the lifters would be better positioned.....try it and see if you can stand straighter as bending under a pack is what cramps your lungs and intercostal muscles and this makes breathing more difficult.

There should be a little clearance between the top-rear of the shoulders and the pack shoulder straps, even under load and a re-arrangement of the Daypack Lid pocket position and load will allow this if the harness is slightly higher. Again, just a suggestion meant to help, not a criticism.

Definately no offence taken. Glad you pointed it out.

If I can pick your brain a bit more, look at the next pic and see if its in better adjustment. I was given a new harness top portion to try. It is the same pack just later in the year with 1/2 a deboned elk.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/peter338/summer2008029.jpg

[paw325]

[quote=greenhorn;854330]Don't want to sound weird or nothing, but you look like a real stud muffin in that picture :mrgreen: Nice pack!

No...... that doesn't come off weird at all.......... Just hope we never meet in real life :mrgreen:

[Kody94]

Definately no offence taken. Glad you pointed it out.

If I can pick your brain a bit more, look at the next pic and see if its in better adjustment. I was given a new harness top portion to try. It is the same pack just later in the year with 1/2 a deboned elk.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/peter338/summer2008029.jpg

That pic does look like it fits you a little better, but the ascenders look a little funny...extra long for some reason. I usually have mine adjusted to the max...pulls the load into your back and lets you stand up straighter, even under a max load. Based on where I see the buckle it looks like you might have yours maxed, but the strap from the pack seems too long.

[Slee]

Like Mark I use the Mystery Ranch Nice Series exclusively. The one in the pic below is the 6500.

It has in it or attached to it, 1/2 deboned ram c/w cape and horns, 1 wolf hide, tent, sleeping bag, sleeping mat, spotter, spotter tripod, skinning gear, 1 x 1 liter water bottle, spare clothes etc. Fortunately or unfortunately (depends how you look at it) we were out of food by that point so didn't have that to worry about. Yes I know the sheep is food, we ate on that ram for 2 days.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/peter338/Palmerlake069.jpg


Awesome looking load. Cant beat having a sheep on your back...

[paw325]

That pic does look like it fits you a little better, but the ascenders look a little funny...extra long for some reason. I usually have mine adjusted to the max...pulls the load into your back and lets you stand up straighter, even under a max load. Based on where I see the buckle it looks like you might have yours maxed, but the strap from the pack seems too long.

The rational behind the new upper was longer ascenders, looks like I need something in between the 2 lengths.

Thanks for the advice.

[BromBones]

Hi guys maybe you can help me out on this one. I am getting outfitted this year with the equipment neccessary to overnight in my favourite hunting areas. I am looking for a pack to pack out meat and my tent, sleeping bag etc. I realize that the internal frame packs are more comfortable than the old style external frame packs but I am after the better one as functionality. I think the external would be better for meat but am I wrong? Let me know what you guys think on this one.

This is one of the reasons I picked up the Badlands Ox pack - it can function as both. I like my internals for pure comfort with 60ish lbs when going on multi-day hiking trips, but if I start piling on much more than 90-100 lbs it really distorts the packs form, and becomes uncomfortable.

The frame on the Ox is made of 2 stout aluminum uprights and 2 crossbars - you can disassemble it in a couple minutes and store the frame in the side pockets of the pack. When you get a critter down and need to stack some meat on, assemble the frame and load it up. There is a meat rack that's built in between the frame and the bag - you loosen off the bag (or remove it and come back later for it), pile your meat in the rack and cinch it up to the frame, and then cinch the bag up against the meat rack. Works pretty slick.

Or use the Ox pack like this guy, strap the whole carcass to the pack and give'r:-D

http://www.thearizonahunter.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1698&sid=f2bc96dfccf1e513c5527af68775fb1f&mode=view

http://www.thearizonahunter.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1700&mode=view

[Kody94]

Or use the Ox pack like this guy, strap the whole carcass to the pack and give'r:-D

http://www.thearizonahunter.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1698&sid=f2bc96dfccf1e513c5527af68775fb1f&mode=view

http://www.thearizonahunter.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1700&mode=view

LOL. You know you mis-judged the size of your bear when... :mrgreen:

Cool pics.

[greenhorn]

That's the funniest thing I've seen all week!

[wiggy]

Used them all; MR is best internal frame you can buy for hunting. I still only use a pack frame. I made my own out of aircraft aluminum. No doubt period i can carry 80 lbs easy and bigger if i have too. The problem with internal frames and extra heavy loads is they move. If the weight in the packs shift it can throw you. If you look at expeditions going up everest you will see all the climbers with internal frames put when you look at the porters with huge loads its some pretty barbaric externals. You just cant beat a external frame with big loads period and if anyone thinks different then they have not had a proper fitting external or have not had 125 lbs on them and tried to go a long distance. Last goat hunt i was on a good bud was using his top end internal. After 10 days of hard hiking i was still loose as a goose as he was beat. When you look at the photos posted earlier on this post any time you are bent over from the load you are killing yourself and will not be able to hike extended days with that load. With my external I am never in that position which will ultimately cause some disk damage which will show up sooner or later. Ive been packback hunting for 40 years and still love to gear up and go. In fact im pretty sure im a hell of alot tougher and smarter now. Check out the bull paks online. Alot of guides in Alaska and Oregon swear buy them and with a few adjustments they are a hell of a packboard

[wiggy]

Forgot to mention a Tonga is crucial to packing any heavy load and keeping your spine safe

[The Hermit]

Tonga? WTHeck is a Tonga?

[BromBones]

LOL. You know you mis-judged the size of your bear when... :mrgreen:


The big orange diaper musta threw him off :-D

[pnbrock]

was that bear wearing the diaper before it was shot?

[BromBones]

That's the meat rack that's built into the frame, just the way he's got it strapped in makes it look like a pair of bear ginch.

[wiggy]

Tonga? WTHeck is a Tonga?
you hook it off the back lower part of your pack and tighten around your forehead. First time i seen it was on a mtn trek in the himalayas; dudes can carry incredible loads with one

[Kody94]

you hook it off the back lower part of your pack and tighten around your forehead. First time i seen it was on a mtn trek in the himalayas; dudes can carry incredible loads with one

I've only ever heard it called a "namlo strap". Probably good for your back if your neck isn't already causing you problems. :wink:

[wiggy]

I've only ever heard it called a "namlo strap". Probably good for your back if your neck isn't already causing you problems. :wink:
Neck back knees shoulders, shit it all hurts still the strap really helps whens you backin a big load; idea is to keep the load centered:???:

[Devilbear]

paw325, the second photo with the elk meat is better, but, I think that your harness may feel better if moved a half inch or so higher with loads of this weight. Two other "problems" are wearing the heavy bino around your neck and packing your rifle in your hands when carrying a pack of such weight; these will both tend to make you bend slightly more forward than you would if you carried your bino in a pack pocket and your rifle in a Kifaru Gunbearer or strapped to your pack and then used GOOD hiking poles.

I would and have put a "Long Universal Combat Gunbearer" from Kifaru on all my hunting packs and also augment the somewhat fragile Kifaru topstrap with a homemade little safety strap and am happy with the results. I usually pack one of my 8.5-9lb Mod. 70 .338s in this and it works real well, even in heavy brush and is quick to use in Grizzly country. I can then use both hiking poles and would never be without these after using them for five years, after hiking from 1956 to 2005 without them....makes a HUGE improvement with heavy burdens and tough country.

The MR NICE is the best, most versatile pack system I have ever seen or used and nothing else comes remotely close, except the old Dana Design frame packs. I had a Bullpack and it was merely "OK" to about 70 lbs, but, the primitive suspension pretty much collapsed after that moderate weight and I had to bend over like a dog dicking a donut...not good in steep terrain.

Try to wear your pack a little higher on your bod and tighten the lifters a bit and see how that feels, use some weight in it as you adjust it and play with the harness height..even a 1/4" difference can make quite a difference in feel. HTH.

[Devilbear]

I've only ever heard it called a "namlo strap". Probably good for your back if your neck isn't already causing you problems. :wink:

This is known as a "tump line" and is only useful for those who get used to using one and KEEP your neck muscles in shape. I have a neck like a bull and shoulders to match, tried one ONCE-----NEVER again, took a lot of rum to make my neck feel good again!

[ianwuzhere]

awesome pix paw!
=i was wondering how u guys like to pack your rifle when loaded up? some people pack them in the pack and others carry them??

[wiggy]

paw325, the second photo with the elk meat is better, but, I think that your harness may feel better if moved a half inch or so higher with loads of this weight. Two other "problems" are wearing the heavy bino around your neck and packing your rifle in your hands when carrying a pack of such weight; these will both tend to make you bend slightly more forward than you would if you carried your bino in a pack pocket and your rifle in a Kifaru Gunbearer or strapped to your pack and then used GOOD hiking poles.

I would and have put a "Long Universal Combat Gunbearer" from Kifaru on all my hunting packs and also augment the somewhat fragile Kifaru topstrap with a homemade little safety strap and am happy with the results. I usually pack one of my 8.5-9lb Mod. 70 .338s in this and it works real well, even in heavy brush and is quick to use in Grizzly country. I can then use both hiking poles and would never be without these after using them for five years, after hiking from 1956 to 2005 without them....makes a HUGE improvement with heavy burdens and tough country.

The MR NICE is the best, most versatile pack system I have ever seen or used and nothing else comes remotely close, except the old Dana Design frame packs. I had a Bullpack and it was merely "OK" to about 70 lbs, but, the primitive suspension pretty much collapsed after that moderate weight and I had to bend over like a dog dicking a donut...not good in steep terrain.

Try to wear your pack a little higher on your bod and tighten the lifters a bit and see how that feels, use some weight in it as you adjust it and play with the harness height..even a 1/4" difference can make quite a difference in feel. HTH.

Sounds like your bull frame wasnt long enough for your body. I made my own after using their long version which should stop pushing you over if anything it should be throwing you back. Ive done 21 day hikes with them np and thats at over 10ooo ft climbing. Further my frame weighs in at 4.5 lbs and the mr is over 9.5 and with attachments can be closer to 10.5. I had my harness sewed right here in BC copying a MR harness and i tell ya you cannot compare the two with loads over 75 lbs and especially over 100 lbs. As for lifting the load the load has to sit on your hips more then on your shoulders. Ask any mountainerring shop to fit you and they will ALL tell you this and fit you to this. I have a rifle carry attachmennt that goes right on my frame and this is a necessity as are good hiking poles. As i stated carry a forehead strap and use it for heavy loads or when going up steep terrain. It keeps the load centered

[Devilbear]

I retired from selling packs and other mountain gear for my living in June, 2001, when I turned 55 and my Bullpak was purchased some months before this after consulatation with the people who make them as I had dealt with them since '93. As to my torso, it is 18.5" and my pack was fitted perfectly since I know how to fit both internal and external frame packs.

Your experience is most impressive, mine entails decades of daily use carrying loads of as much as 140 lbs. all over BC from the mid-50s to the present and using many different packs. You may ...tell ya... whatever you wish, however, since I have used both packs and with the same loads I use for training, I will have to go with what my use of packs has taught me since 1956.

The position of your load on your body should actually change slightly as you traverse different types of terrain and this is one of the functions of the lifters on any pack. If, you adjust your lifters as you travel uphill and down, you will experience less fatigue of the specific muscle groups most stressed during that particular part of your trek. So, fitting is certainly crucial and so is adjustment of your specific pack(s) to both your body type/size and also your particular mode of carrying your pack(s).

You might want to be a bit cautious about posting on copying patented gear as some makers get a wee bit choked over such issues. I have dealt with Dana of MR since 1978 and doubt that he would bother, but, "a word to the wise" and all that..........

[wiggy]

Thanks Devilbear; never even crossed my mind; i aint selling them and didnt realize that i couldnt make my own? I hear you about adjusting the straps; i do it naturally depending on the terrain and load. Sometimes you have to cinch her up ugh. Right now im doing some research and gonna buy a Arcteryx Altra when i see a deal; suppose to be the best hiking pack on the market now. The hip belt is made of memory foam and it pivots and they say its the most comfortable hip belt ever made.
Anyways things have come along way since Trapper Nelson's lol.

[Rackmastr]

Put me in the Mystery Ranch camp...

I use a CBMR Behemoth which is similar to the NICE 6500.

I'd like to try an MR internal pack as my next one, but gotta say the NICE frame is pretty hard not to like. The KUIU Icon 6000 looks interesting as well and possibly worth a try.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/Rackmastr/IMG_4574.jpg

[paw325]

[quote=Devilbear;854892]paw325, the second photo with the elk meat is better, but, I think that your harness may feel better if moved a half inch or so higher with loads of this weight. Two other "problems" are wearing the heavy bino around your neck and packing your rifle in your hands when carrying a pack of such weight; these will both tend to make you bend slightly more forward than you would if you carried your bino in a pack pocket and your rifle in a Kifaru Gunbearer or strapped to your pack and then used GOOD hiking poles.

I would and have put a "Long Universal Combat Gunbearer" from Kifaru on all my hunting packs and also augment the somewhat fragile Kifaru topstrap with a homemade little safety strap and am happy with the results. I usually pack one of my 8.5-9lb Mod. 70 .338s in this and it works real well, even in heavy brush and is quick to use in Grizzly country. I can then use both hiking poles and would never be without these after using them for five years, after hiking from 1956 to 2005 without them....makes a HUGE improvement with heavy burdens and tough country.

The MR NICE is the best, most versatile pack system I have ever seen or used and nothing else comes remotely close, except the old Dana Design frame packs. I had a Bullpack and it was merely "OK" to about 70 lbs, but, the primitive suspension pretty much collapsed after that moderate weight and I had to bend over like a dog dicking a donut...not good in steep terrain.


Thank you very much for the tips and advice. I will put them into practice as advised.