What has a Guide Outfitter done for you?

[Whisky Creek]

It doesn't take much reading on this site to find oodles of posts which speak negatively of Guide Outfitters and Guides in BC. This thread is to relate your personal experiences or observations of how a guide, outfitter and / or the GOABC has contributed in a positive manner to wildlife conservation in BC, contributed to your livelihood and / or helped you out in some way, as a resident hunter. This may include providing job(s) to you, funding wildlife habitat projects, supporting your business through purchasing of equipment and supplies, helping you out while afield and etc, etc.... Negative comments are not welcomed in this thread. If you wish to post those, start your own thread.

[lip_ripper00]

welcome or not, NOT A DAMN THING

[Whisky Creek]

As a resident hunter,

Guide outfitters have built most of the horse trail systems in the areas I regularily hunt in, allowing decent access to otherwise inaccessible areas. (Itcha and Ilgachuz, Cassiar)

Guides have taught me everything I know about horse packing which allowed me to be able to hunt areas with my horses that I would otherwise be unable to reasonably access.

Our regional G/O association has contributed large sums of money to fund an ungulate enhancement program which has helped us trappers to control wolf populations resulting in stronger ungulate populations and increased resident hunter opportunity. The financial incentive provided by the program has funded the purchase of trapping supplies to use in my trapping.

G/Os donated meat(s) to our annual rod and gun club banquet dinner and fundraiser. This money raised at this annual event was used to cover the operating costs and maintenance of the club.

The list goes on, but here's a few to start.

[snareman1234]

Negative comments are not welcomed in this thread

How come you can rant on someone else's thread that was not controversial at all,

it was just a good stat to post up for all to see,

however, your pretty controversial thread does not welcome any controversy, just straight praise, and any that have different to say must stay out?

[Whisky Creek]

Snareman and lip ripper. If you don't like it, you can simply start your own "rant thread" then. That's the beauty of the "New Thread" button near the top left corner of the screen. This thread is to find out how G/O's have contributed to the Province, hunters and wildlife in BC.

PS: Snareman, I you are considering a positive post, I have one idea for you already. Most of the information you asked me for and I provided prior to your bison hunt, was provided to me by a G/O who lives locally in the Pink Mtn area, so I guess he helped us both out in our quest for bison..... Your welcome.

[Barracuda]

Alot of guys really hate them and i am sure there are some of questionable ethics like in every bussiness but for the most part i think that they are good for hunting & fishing.

I have to admit i get a chuckle from the fraser river guides and the FishFluffing they do.

[BlacktailStalker]

I am a very open minded guy and to be quite honest, I've yet to meet one that wasn't an arrogant prick who didn't act as if he was being 'tolerant' of my presence.
In fact, I have smiled and listened politely where they go as far to b.s me hoping to discourage me from being there based on what they've seen or had happen.
Another outfitter has abused his powers as a GO who also works for a timber company and conveniently doesn't allow a certain group with a specific hunting interest enter their land for the sole reason of wanting it as 'his' little sanctuary.
Doesn't bother me as there are plenty of other areas to go but its pathetic to say the least.

I don't think they are all like that, you can't label a group based on a few individuals actions but it amazes me that MORE don't allow themselves to be put in that general persona by contributing or making a difference in some way or another.

To save argument, this is as equally easy to do by coming across as good guys, dick heads or just sitting back.
Its a choice.

[stoneguide]

Welcome or not. NOT A DAMN THING!

And what did they do against you?

[snareman1234]

PS: Snareman, I you are considering a positive post, I have one idea for you already. Most of the information you asked me for and I provided prior to your bison hunt, was provided to me by a G/O who lives locally in the Pink Mtn area, so I guess he helped us both out in our quest for bison..... Your welcome.

Fair enough, was helpful for sure. Glad to have the info from you, from him.

[pathfinder55]

I flew into Tuchodi lakes in 1994, We made our base camp on the lakshore not far from as old cabin. A guy rides into camp on horseback and introduces himself as the Go. Had a friendly chat about the area the animals and his conservation concerns. We never felt unwelcome....Peter

[BiG Boar]

If anyone gets the sikanni bison draw just stay with Mike and Dixie at the ranch and they will show you just how good they can be. Awesome people who always help out residents.

[lip_ripper00]

And what did they do against you?


This thread is not about "what they did against me"

[Whisky Creek]

Lip ripper, You are right, the thread it isn't about that and neither is your first or second post. Seriously, go ahead and start another "G/O bashing thread". I'm sure you'll have no problem getting hundreds of posts on it.....

[fearnodeer]

I worked in langara buiding fishing lodges for a lot of years and the guides were the best people to talk to they would help anyone out guided or non. I do not know about hunting guides but i can understand this is how they make a living and i have alot of respect for them because god I'd love to do what i love for a living.

[ruger#1]

Lighten up. Your going to get negative post anyways. This is why it's called a forum. I have had good and bad experiences with GO's.

[GOLDEN TOP SNIPER]

No G.O. likes hunters in his area when hes trying to get clients there animals , BUT.. theres nothing they can do about it . Act ethical and theres no reason for them to bitch ..And if they do .SO WHAT ?.Bottom line everyone has the right to hunt in the Area , yes some G.O.S have spent time and money creating horse trails and quad trails , but they do knowing full well that everyone now has access to these trails. .Most G.O.s are great guys and respect everyones hunting , Most are just as Happy to see you take a nice trophy as they are to see a client take one .After all, There hunters too ..

[waistdeep]

couple of years ago while hunting near Pink Mountain for Bufflo I had a great experience with the Guides, I was told by the old man where he had seen some bull moose and pointed out our best approach. I thought that was just awesome, the Guides used our wall tent as a hang out while the weather was ugly with thier clients and we helped them zero in on a great bull thier client took with thier bow, two way street is the way to go :)

[sherpa-Al]

Positive: I have a friend who is a guide outfitter. Although we are on opposite sides when it comes to the financials and allocations of hunting in B.C. we never let it come between us. We discuss the various topics concerning his territory from time to time, and I find it quite interesting being able to see the other side of the coin from his perspective. We openly share our hunting spots and it has benefitted both of us. He brings business to the local economy which is much needed these days.
Negative: I have had my climbing treestand used by another local guide outfitter who fully knows who owns it and then promptly removed my bow and pack hooks upon leaving:evil:. It is these types of actions that can cast a negative perspective on the outfitters even though the action may be an isolated case.

Al.

[stoneguide]

Here are a few of the things they have done for me,


As a guide:

given me the oppertunity to be paid to do what I love
given me the oppertunity to become a proficient ferrier
given me the oppertunity to travel some of the nicest coutry anywhere
allowed me to meet many very very good friends that I wouldnt have
taught me me how to read animals and their habitat
helped me obtain the great gear I have now(hunter tips)


As a resident:

helped us out one time wish a badly hurt horse
supplied use of a sat. phone when a member of our group was injured
hauled some gear in with their wagon
helped find trail into certain areas


May not go with the thread but from what ive seen,

1. most residents with a bad opinion of an outfitter dont even know who he is

2. most residents never ever meet the outfitter

3. most residents that have an opinion towards outfitters got that opinion from listening to their peers not but actual experiences

4. many residents that see some one in the field automaticaly figure it a guide

5. every plane a resident see's is an outfitter even if 5 different kinds fly over and the outfitter only has one

6. most if not all outfitters will help a resident in an emergency


There are many great people in the outfitting buisness and the odd asshole but people need to realize as long as its buisness against personal things will always have its tension.

No body that has a buisness embraces things that can possibly have negative effect on there buisness and lively hood.
SG

[pitbell]

How about directly employing over 2000 residents and raising around $120 million dollars into the economy? How about the thousands of pounds of game meat they donate to the Salvation Army and Indian reserves? Or the millions they raise for wildlife management?

[BlacktailStalker]

I'll add that a good friend who is an Outfitter, albeit not a BC outfitter, aided in my interest in hounds and was/is a mentor to this day but that probably falls more under the friend category. Nonetheless he is still a GO.

I will also add I am in NO way against them and if it were possible, would likely be one myself.

[GOLDEN TOP SNIPER]

Well Said.. STONEGUIDE . I wouldnt be the hunter i am today without working for a G.O. . i learned a lot and i am still learning to this Day ..

[swampthing]

Last spring while on an LEH grizz hunt, I set up my camp about 5km from a guide outfitter camp. While hunting, I ran into the owner of the camp. We chatted for a bit and when he found out I was hunting solo he invited me to his outfit for dinner and drinks. I had a great time and he wished me luck.

[elkdom]

as a resident hunter for 30 + years in BC?, GO's have done nothing for me,,,

as a Licenced Ass"t BC Hunting Guide for 20+ years in BC, there are a couple of GO's that owe me a seasons wages from 12, 15 years ago!

figure it out for yourself!

[BromBones]

Quite a bit :)

[stoneguide]

Quite a bit :)

You need to quit posting BromBones!!!!!!













I drool on my dam keyboard everytime I look at you avatar pic:mrgreen:
SG

[Weatherby Fan]

My Nephew was playing Junior B hockey in Kimberly last year and was down on the Bull River road hunting when the fuel pump went on his truck,
One of the Local Guides picked him up and drove him back to Kimberly and wouldn't take a thing for doing it,

The next week my brother was up working on the truck when the same fellow stopped by and offered to tow him down to his shop and he could work on it there under cover in his garage, or if you need any tools I have pretty much anything you will need.

Pretty good of him I'd say !

[BromBones]

You need to quit posting BromBones!!!!!!

I drool on my dam keyboard everytime I look at you avatar pic:mrgreen:
SG

Heh, sorry about that.:-D

Dandy, isn't it?

[stoneguide]

Heh, sorry about that.:-D

Dandy, isn't it?

Never find a prettier, better ram thats for sure. Something about tips pointing to the ground that gets a guy going! One of a kind for sure!

[Gateholio]

Leif and Kellie at SMS have been nothing but great to me. My favorite is watching Leif and PG66 embark on their love/hate relationship debates where each tries to tell the other they are essentially worthless.:-D

In my former career I was lucky enough to be taken out on lots of guided fishing trips. Langara, Vancouver Island, Fraser River, etc etc. Most of the fishing guides were great to hang out with, I usually related better to the staff than some of the other bigwig customers.:-D

Lots of great people in all facets of the hunting/fishing world,whether they are involved in their profession or recreation. And there are a few real dick-heads out there too.

[Gateholio]

Heh, sorry about that.:-D

Dandy, isn't it?

Shot in 1931! I guess there weren't as many hunters pursuing rams then.:-D

[358mag]

Heh, sorry about that.:-D

Dandy, isn't it?
Great Ram to bad you didnt shot it !!!!:wink:

[quigleyoutwest]

I am a very open minded guy and to be quite honest, I've yet to meet one that wasn't an arrogant prick who didn't act as if he was being 'tolerant' of my presence.
In fact, I have smiled and listened politely where they go as far to b.s me hoping to discourage me from being there based on what they've seen or had happen.
Another outfitter has abused his powers as a GO who also works for a timber company and conveniently doesn't allow a certain group with a specific hunting interest enter their land for the sole reason of wanting it as 'his' little sanctuary.
Doesn't bother me as there are plenty of other areas to go but its pathetic to say the least.

I don't think they are all like that, you can't label a group based on a few individuals actions but it amazes me that MORE don't allow themselves to be put in that general persona by contributing or making a difference in some way or another.

To save argument, this is as equally easy to do by coming across as good guys, dick heads or just sitting back.
Its a choice.


You must mean glen venus. I woulda thought he owned iron river, conflict of interest maybe. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.. Locked to us, open to him. bs , wheres the govt reps when you need them

[BromBones]

Great Ram to bad you didnt shot it !!!!:wink:

Yup, was one or two years before my time :-D

[358mag]

Yup, was one or two years before my time :-D
Mine too but still trying to find one from his gene pool !!!!!!!

[6616]

I several friends who are guide-outfitters, we rarely talk allocation, they complain once in a while and I feel for them, but not enough to volunteer to give away resident opportunities, which of course I couldn't do even if I wanted to..!

Guide-outfitters have over the years participated in many of the conservation activities we've undertaken in my region, not as much these last few years as many of the newer guys are not locals, but some of the older guys were really good, we grew up together and worked for wildlife together for many years.

In the bush, I have to say more experiences with guide-outfitters were negative than positive, but in most cases, at least locally, we just left each other alone.

[proguide66]

Leif and Kellie at SMS have been nothing but great to me. My favorite is watching Leif and PG66 embark on their
love/hate relationship debates where each tries to tell the other they are essentially worthless.:-D
In my former career I was lucky enough to be taken out on lots of guided fishing trips. Langara, Vancouver Island, Fraser River, etc etc. Most of the fishing guides were great to hang out with, I usually related better to the staff than some of the other bigwig customers.:-D

Lots of great people in all facets of the hunting/fishing world,whether they are involved in their profession or recreation. And there are a few real dick-heads out there too.
Shit , thats the only reason I go back each fall:twisted:

[dutchie]

Welcome or not. NOT A DAMN THING!

I have to say that this is a state of mind and it is far from the truth.

G/O's pay into the GOABC, and in turn helps fund the fight to keep hunting legal. GOABC has a huge money stream, far greater then BCWF and they fight anti's, governments and every other person for the right to be able to continue hunting and having a job. The governments want the taxible revenue. GOABC fights for the hunting rights... lobbies and funds pro-hunting campaigns/

BCWF does the same but there is not the financial backing as the GOABC.

In reality, we as residents NEED GOABC just as much as BCWF. If the government ever tries to shut down hunting GOABC will be hit first, and they will fight it becasue that is their livelihood on the line... a lot more then a resident hunter that gets out for 2 weeks a year.

I think what needs to happen is have a special interest group that is comprised of members from BCWF and GOABC that actually have resident/non-res as their ONLY priority and have the mediation between the 2 larger groups. (kind of like the working group that Wild Sheep Society and then sheep farmers have.)

I feel that this would end alot of the counter productive sniffling and bickering from both sides and have more thought out measurable success and have parties from both sides happy and able to work together at arms length.

So Guide Outfitters, GOABC and BCWF all contribute to us being able to hunt fish and do the things that we love. In my Opinion if there was just the GOABC we would be screwed... if it was just BCWF we would be screwed... As hunters we need them both.

Dutchie

[Fisher-Dude]

I have to say that this is a state of mind and it is far from the truth.

G/O's pay into the GOABC, and in turn helps fund the fight to keep hunting legal. GOABC has a huge money stream, far greater then BCWF and they fight anti's, governments and every other person for the right to be able to continue hunting and having a job. The governments want the taxible revenue. GOABC fights for the hunting rights... lobbies and funds pro-hunting campaigns/

BCWF does the same but there is not the financial backing as the GOABC.

In reality, we as residents NEED GOABC just as much as BCWF. If the government ever tries to shut down hunting GOABC will be hit first, and they will fight it becasue that is their livelihood on the line... a lot more then a resident hunter that gets out for 2 weeks a year.

I think what needs to happen is have a special interest group that is comprised of members from BCWF and GOABC that actually have resident/non-res as their ONLY priority and have the mediation between the 2 larger groups. (kind of like the working group that Wild Sheep Society and then sheep farmers have.)

I feel that this would end alot of the counter productive sniffling and bickering from both sides and have more thought out measurable success and have parties from both sides happy and able to work together at arms length.

So Guide Outfitters, GOABC and BCWF all contribute to us being able to hunt fish and do the things that we love. In my Opinion if there was just the GOABC we would be screwed... if it was just BCWF we would be screwed... As hunters we need them both.

Dutchie

Nice in theory Dutchie. But, if you happen to read the GOABC's "Economic Viability" lobby paper that essentially looks to shut residents out of many of our hunting opportunities, you might then know the truth and see just who is in it for themselves.

One does NOT ensure the future of hunting by closing down resident seasons, putting residents on LEH just so rich foreigners can have the bush to themselves, and charging $150US to each client to be used to hire professional lobbyists to achieve these closures of residents' seasons.

[Davey Crockett]

You must mean glen venus. I woulda thought he owned iron river, conflict of interest maybe. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.. Locked to us, open to him. bs , wheres the govt reps when you need them

He is retired now. It isn't that he works there, it's that he is a guide and has an agreement with IT for access. It isn't any more open for those who work there than it is for everyone else. This is the sad reality of private forest lands.

[Gateholio]

I also had a guide (elk guide) steal my rifle. Last I heard someone stole it from him he is also going ot court in Quesnel on Feb 11 for assault.

Like I said, there are some dick heads,t oo.:wink:

[silvicon]

to answer the original question:
one outfitter taught me how to ride and pack, essential bush skills,
another how to skin, cape, track, the way of game.

two people have done more for me than any -and all- resident
'hunters'/posters on here.

GO bashing is live and well, esp. by people that are game hogs.

[BlacktailStalker]

He is retired now. It isn't that he works there, it's that he is a guide and has an agreement with IT for access. It isn't any more open for those who work there than it is for everyone else. This is the sad reality of private forest lands.

Just to clarify, it sure is!
They allow deer hunters in there all fall and snowmobilers when the snow flies til it stops.
They also allow the trapper(s) and others in there, snowmobilers etc.
There is a snowmobilers clubhouse/cabin up there at the top of the Eden.
Anywho enough about that.

[luckynuts]

Well a Guide was able to get permission on property to shoot a mule deer this year and he let my son take it:-D. I've spoken with many guides and former guides here in town, gotta love the hunting stories plus the tips.

I look at it this way. They have a business to run, No different than anyone else running a business trying to keep a profit in a cutthroat world. Nobody likes competition but competition will always be there. Some are better adapting to it than others. Not saying all guides and owners are on the level as I have been lied too and burned before.

Though I believe the majority are legit top notch outfits, especially the mom and pop outfits that have tremendous history in their areas and do it for the love of it. In the end I truly believe that residents and outfits will have to join hands to keep what we all love and value, accessible. The issue is when will we be able to TRUST each other to move forward.

W.

[Everett]

Most of my interactions with guide outfitters have been negative the one huge exception was Russell Cummins very nice honest Outfitter in my opinion did very well by me. As a result Ihave sent some business his way as some of my foreign clients hunt.

[Marlin375]

couple of years ago while hunting near Pink Mountain for Bufflo I had a great experience with the Guides, I was told by the old man where he had seen some bull moose and pointed out our best approach. I thought that was just awesome, the Guides used our wall tent as a hang out while the weather was ugly with thier clients and we helped them zero in on a great bull thier client took with thier bow, two way street is the way to go :)

X2.....they also showed up with a quad trailer on our departure date (it was questionable if ours was going to make it out)

I'd say nothing wrong with that Crew.

[budismyhorse]

Any time I get a chance to sit down with a guide outfitter about packing horses I sit down and listen! No replacement for that type of experience. Most I've met like to talk horses and give plenty of good advice.

They also keep trails cleaned up in spots I like to pack into......I always stop in and tell them my game plan so I can avoid them. Amicable plans are always made and adhered to. I guess in my experience with them, you get what you give.

[AT&T]

It doesn't take much reading on this site to find oodles of posts which speak negatively of Guide Outfitters and Guides in BC. This thread is to relate your personal experiences or observations of how a guide, outfitter and / or the GOABC has contributed in a positive manner to wildlife conservation in BC, contributed to your livelihood and / or helped you out in some way, as a resident hunter. This may include providing job(s) to you, funding wildlife habitat projects, supporting your business through purchasing of equipment and supplies, helping you out while afield and etc, etc.... Negative comments are not welcomed in this thread. If you wish to post those, start your own thread.

I understand there are some issues out there with this topic. After spending years involved in the political world of fish wildlife and wilderness debates I will say this. The guiding industry has played a major role in land use decisions. They have a vested interest in sustaining wildlife numbers and habitat. The Purcell Wilderness Conservancy was BCs first such area designated. The GO were a big supporter in seeing the area established. Not throwing rocks at resident hunters here cause alot of us do good work. We as residents should spend more time protecting or enhancing the wildlife resource. Too much time is spent on what we put in our freezers so we can brag to our freinds. I wish more of us got more involved.

[358mag]

Well a few "BC" guide- outfitters got me realy drunk @ FNAWS a few years but thats another story.

[stoneguide]

I guess in my experience with them, you get what you give.

That right there is a very true statment.
SG

[J_T]

I several friends who are guide-outfitters, we rarely talk allocation, they complain once in a while and I feel for them, but not enough to volunteer to give away resident opportunities, which of course I couldn't do even if I wanted to..!

Guide-outfitters have over the years participated in many of the conservation activities we've undertaken in my region, not as much these last few years as many of the newer guys are not locals, but some of the older guys were really good, we grew up together and worked for wildlife together for many years.

In the bush, I have to say more experiences with guide-outfitters were negative than positive, but in most cases, at least locally, we just left each other alone. I think for the most part it has to do with who we are as people. My experience has been positive.
I've had:
- two different GO's advertise in my bowhunting magazine,
- two GO's sponsor prizes in a traditional 3D.
- one GO commit $1 for every dollar we raised on a habitat burn a few years ago.
- two GO's offer me direction on bow goat hunts.
- I've used GO structure (with their knowledge) in the back country.
- And I've reported back to them on the state of their place in the back.

I've enjoyed riding with a few of them in the past. When we're in the bush, we're all nature lovers and out to enjoy what Nature offers. I've had two GO's offer to take my gear in to a spike camp. (Didn't use the service, but thought it was decent). For the most part, I enjoy my conversations with them. We know where the line is and we leave it alone.

[brenden]

What has a hunter done for you???
What has a mechanic done for you???
What has a lawyer done for you???
What has a restraunt owner done for you???

I'm sure some have helped and some have screwed you.

Some are good some and some aren't. Get over it. You can't paint them all with the same brush. I happen to like most of the outfitters I know with the exception of a few. I wouldn't like those guys anyway regardless of whether they are outfitters or not.

I have run into waaaaay more assh0le resident hunters than outfitters. It's all a matter of personal morals, ethics and conduct.

Outfitters have done 100:1 good over bad to me. Until that changes drastically I have no beef with them.


Brenden

[358mag]

I have run into waaaaay more assh0le resident hunters than outfitters. It's all a matter of personal morals, ethics and conduct.

Woooo did you ever hit the nail on the head with that statment .

[frenchbar]

I have run into waaaaay more assh0le resident hunters than outfitters. It's all a matter of personal morals, ethics and conduct.

Woooo did you ever hit the nail on the head with that statment .

of couse there is thousands of resident hunters vrs a handfull of outfitters ..:mrgreen:

[brenden]

Holy. Nice ram 358. Jeeeez

[tracker]

Well a few "BC" guide- outfitters got me realy drunk @ FNAWS a few years but thats another story.


So you are finally able to talk about what happened that night hey!!!:mrgreen:



G/O 's have contributed to the community in some ways for sure ,but personaly for me ,nothing. Although I have never contributed to them for anything either..

[Alpine Addict]

I'd be angry and jeleous too If I was stuck in a office 9-5.

[SHAKER]

Hmmm.... Raced passed me on there quad trying to beat me to the trail head in the morning.

Unloading sleds as fast as they can to get in front of me to run a small cat hunt'n area... then told "we're runn'n it so........."

Stopped me on a public road and got informed "this is my mountain and I don't want to see you hunt'n here!"

Got cut off on a snowmobile this year!

Buzzed with Helicopter on a goat hunt. No #'s on the chopper

You get the idea, I guess not much!

Well I"m wrong........ The one G\O went down the the Reno show and I killed a nice Tom in his area a couple days after he left! LOL:mrgreen:

[RayHill]

I am a very open minded guy and to be quite honest, I've yet to meet one that wasn't an arrogant prick who didn't act as if he was being 'tolerant' of my presence.
In fact, I have smiled and listened politely where they go as far to b.s me hoping to discourage me from being there based on what they've seen or had happen.
Another outfitter has abused his powers as a GO who also works for a timber company and conveniently doesn't allow a certain group with a specific hunting interest enter their land for the sole reason of wanting it as 'his' little sanctuary.
Doesn't bother me as there are plenty of other areas to go but its pathetic to say the least.

I don't think they are all like that, you can't label a group based on a few individuals actions but it amazes me that MORE don't allow themselves to be put in that general persona by contributing or making a difference in some way or another.

To save argument, this is as equally easy to do by coming across as good guys, dick heads or just sitting back.
Its a choice.

How can a logging company keep you from hunting land? I don't think it is their land they might lease the wood rights but don't have the right to tell you you can't be on crown land. I was told i could not hunt in a area by a hunter/logging group of guys. They had a BS excuse why. I saw latter on that they had a truck full of black tails. The next day I went in there to get my dear.

[Nait Hadya]

It doesn't take much reading on this site to find oodles of posts which speak negatively of Guide Outfitters and Guides in BC. This thread is to relate your personal experiences or observations of how a guide, outfitter and / or the GOABC has contributed in a positive manner to wildlife conservation in BC, contributed to your livelihood and / or helped you out in some way, as a resident hunter. This may include providing job(s) to you, funding wildlife habitat projects, supporting your business through purchasing of equipment and supplies, helping you out while afield and etc, etc.... Negative comments are not welcomed in this thread. If you wish to post those, start your own thread.

outfitters are always looking for ways to promote themselves as the be all to end all in the conseervation world,when in fact they are only in it for the money. what you are trying to do is glorify a business with a tax deduction. outfitters,i have met a few,very personable on the surface but for those in the know, they are clearly against resident hunters who are not their clients or likely to be a future clients. they see their "territory" as "theirs" and the wildlife, their bank account. they are not afraid of stickin their nose where it don't belong or lettin ya know who's "land" it is. favorite quote i've heard, he no's this land, like the back of his hand? well, last time i checked this land was inhabited by someone who made no money from it, long before an outfitter stepped foot on it. and if you want to go back in history a ways with your claims of territory and such and see who was here first,so be it... outfitters have control issues that were echoed in your comment, "negative comments are not welcome". you can not control what others say,think,do or go,legally! so your confused, what does this all mean. it means you do not have the right to profit from wildlife, residents have priority,now.

still waiting for the sheep to be put on the mountain,the elk in the valley and the moose in the swamp,conservation my arse!

[horshur]

I find that usually the people that always find a asshole always find an asshole...don't matter when or where.

[safarichris]

Since most of my entire life has been spent in the business, I can say this without hesitation. There were some fantastic outfitters that i had the privilege of working for and with since 1966. Unfortunately many of the finest have since left us. I owe a lot to them. They truly blazed the trails that current hunters use today. The old time Outfitters were the salt of the earth and will long be remembered as such. You can credit the late Gary Powell for the success of the now called ''Muskwa River " elk explosion.
He turned a small herd of elk in the Prairie River into the Elk herd that it is today. By simply creating suitable habitat that they desperately needed to get started.Where and when it was needed most. Without suitable habitat, no amount of legal protection can benefit any animal. That small herd of twenty is now what many elk hunters have enjoyed and continue to enjoy. Both resident and non resident to this day. That is one example and a major one in my books. many of the old time Outfitters took a lot of pride in coming home with a 40+ ram and insisted that a fully matured ram WAS harvested. now on the other hand, there are the first class jerks that somehow got a Outfitters license that should never of happened. Areas that are run by a local, but the shots are called from Vagas or ''outside sources''. They don't play by the same rules the dedicated Outfitter who has run his business for many generations do.
I was a Guide most all my life and an Outfitter. I ran a big outfit many years ago, and even had out neighbor Outfitter steal horses from us along with many other things. Again, i would question how he even acquired his license and had no repect for wildlife, his neigbours or the rules. Those tyes of Outfitters need to be weeded out and sent packing in my opinion. They do the Outfitters and industry no good. But its a good life and i will never regret dedicating it to the great outdoors.

[KB90]

I have only had a few experiences with Guides/Outfitters/Family etc. as a I am young, but both were excellent.

1. Not directly a guide or outfitter but Carl (Bigwhities) made my sheep trip happen last year. Without his help and others I wound not have gone. So thank you Bigwhities (and Willy442 ;)) for your knowledge and help.

2. I have been talking with a fellow I looked up who used to be a guide, and he has gone out of his way to help a new goat hunter out. He graciously sent detailed maps and information to help me out, and I am someone he only knows through emails.

I don't understand why people paint all GO's with the same brush. There are a lot of decent people out there! Kind of reminds me of how people talk about the RCMP these days.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

One guide outfitter actually flew us to where I wanted to go. He's a solid guy so I wouldn't expect anything less from him.
Same one also offered my buddy a few hundred bucks off his flight for every wolf he shot.

Pick a territory where the GO doesn't go out of his way to give residents a hard time and you won't have any problems....well, "most likely" none.

Pretty sure I've laid some boot tracks on some GO trails.


SSS

[dutchie]

Nice in theory Dutchie. But, if you happen to read the GOABC's "Economic Viability" lobby paper that essentially looks to shut residents out of many of our hunting opportunities, you might then know the truth and see just who is in it for themselves.

One does NOT ensure the future of hunting by closing down resident seasons, putting residents on LEH just so rich foreigners can have the bush to themselves, and charging $150US to each client to be used to hire professional lobbyists to achieve these closures of residents' seasons.

Re-read what I wrote, and then read what you wrote.

You are speaking directly to the res/non-res issue and you are correct.

You are honing in on a subject that You beat to death... and yes GOABC pisses me off too... But they do alot for the hunting community with the financial aid, and their lobbying.

I understand with the BCWF that is all you focus on but there is a lot more that GOABC helps residents out with. You would be lying to say that GOABC does nothing productive for the hunting community.

Dutchie

[dutchie]

I don't understand why people paint all GO's with the same brush. There are a lot of decent people out there! Kind of reminds me of how people talk about the RCMP these days.

People in our society are sheep... if one person says something, they will follow it untill they die without ever researching what they talk about. They never do thier own research but like to have an opinion.

It is the same thing with Natives... People do not give them the chance and automatically judge them for no reason..

Just like people that will not hunt bear because thier uncle did not like the meat so it is disgusting.

People follow the pattern becasue it is easy and requires no effort and it is a path of least resistance when the majority is groomed to be that way. there will be no confrontation so life is good... just coast on by and live life like a sheep.

Dutchie

[stoneguide]

People in our society are sheep... if one person says something, they will follow it untill they die without ever researching what they talk about. They never do thier own research but like to have an opinion.

It is the same thing with Natives... People do not give them the chance and automatically judge them for no reason..

Just like people that will not hunt bear because thier uncle did not like the meat so it is disgusting.

People follow the pattern becasue it is easy and requires no effort and it is a path of least resistance when the majority is groomed to be that way. there will be no confrontation so life is good... just coast on by and live life like a sheep.

Dutchie


Great post!

[Whisky Creek]

Mostly positive posts guys!!!! Seems that there were only a few that didn't understand the original thread question.

[BlacktailStalker]

It is the off season (for most) ;)

[lip_ripper00]

People in our society are sheep... if one person says something, they will follow it untill they die without ever researching what they talk about.

Dutchie


SOOOOOOOOOOOOO true, You hunt the next 25 years and catch up with me, and have no negitive encounters with GO's and then we will talk, hell first Wednesday of March I will buy you a coffee we can talk then!

[Whisky Creek]

I have hunted for over 27 years or so and personally have never had a negative experience with a Guide or Outfitter, either while in the field, or outside of hunting. I would think, like in all other industries, there are jerks out there.
Refer to Post 61 for possible explanation????

[silvertipp]

well ive met a few guides that go out of there way to be aholes, but ive also met lots that are great people ,one in paticular i like to say thanks to is out of vanderhoof
Chuck Davidson ,i believe he retired now but im sure there is no one who could complain about him ,he was by far the smartest man "when it came to wildlife" that ive ever met,i met him by fluke in a reteraunt and was told we could leave our rig at his place for free,
over the years he taught me alot about calling ,drift hunting and much more so i guess in closeing all i can say is there is good and bad in every trade

[stoneguide]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO true, You hunt the next 25 years and catch up with me, and have no negitive encounters with GO's and then we will talk, hell first Wednesday of March I will buy you a coffee we can talk then!


So because you figure you have hunted so many more years than some one you figure you are an authority. I know hundreds of guys way younger than you that will have 3 or 4 times the time in the field. I always laugh when guys resort to well ive been doing it longer comments, usually are the ones trying to cover their own lack of experience and knowledge.

Like was stated earlier this is a Positive thread if you wanna start a bashing thread go ahead and ill meet you over there.

Maybe the outfitters that you have had an issue with were a good judge of character and treated you exactly the way you should have been.

SG

[hunter1947]

A guide outfitter has showed me some fantastic pictures of big game animals that he guided for his clients to as for sent me some maps showing me where to go for game animals ,I also have had some bad exsperence with outfitters but this is not the thread to say why.

[bayou]

So because you figure you have hunted so many more years than some one you figure you are an authority. I know hundreds of guys way younger than you that will have 3 or 4 times the time in the field. I always laugh when guys resort to well ive been doing it longer comments, usually are the ones trying to cover their own lack of experience and knowledge.

Like was stated earlier this is a Positive thread if you wanna start a bashing thread go ahead and ill meet you over there.

Maybe the outfitters that you have had an issue with were a good judge of character and treated you exactly the way you should have been.

SG
Your bashing some one here so do as you say and start your own thread.
Your pretty much the albertan version of Dana or maybe he moved.

[stoneguide]

Your bashing some one here so do as you say and start your own thread.
Your pretty much the albertan version of Dana or maybe he moved.

Who ever Dana is? And sorry Bud didnt realize you and lip_ripper00 were pals!
SG

[Whisky Creek]

Thanks for helping to try and keep the thread on track StoneGuide.

[bayou]

Who ever Dana is? And sorry Bud didnt realize you and lip_ripper00 were pals!
SG
Sorry dont have a clue who he is, the thread starter asked for no negative posts which you did, darn albertan guides always breaking the rules.

[stoneguide]

, darn albertan guides always breaking the rules.

Thats how we roll!

SG

[Gateholio]

People can "ask" all they want for no negative, no positive, no this, no that but the fact is anyone that wants to post whatever they choose, can do so (within reason). You don't get to dictate how others respond.



Besides, isn't this a negative?:wink:


Refer to Post 61 for possible explanation????

[Kody94]

I have a few good friends that are guides and/or outfitters. They are good guys that run good businesses and frankly, I deeply envy their lifestyles.

I have had an "assistant guide" licence on a few occassions myself.

My encounters with guides and outfitters in the field have generally been good over the years. I have had a couple of "unpleasant" encounters too though...

Overall I have a very positive view of the G/O industry. I think having viable G/Os is absolutely critical to the long-term prospect of maintaining our hunting lifestyles. We need them and they need us. I do get very upset when the tail decides that it should be wagging the dog, however, and IMHO the GOABC has crossed that line.

[Camp Cook]

With over 30 years hunting with my buddies/family/solo in BC I have never had a negative encounter with a GO I have had a few issues with ranchers/other hunters being dicks but never a GO...

[OutWest]

Had my first encounter with the local outfitter himself this past season. I'd heard mostly negative things about him and his guides and there was even a thread started about a certain structure of his on this very site. Ran into him at a trail-head with a hunting partner of mine while he was on his horse. I figured he would start laying into me about where I was hunting but we chatted for a good 15 minutes, shared some info and he wished me luck with the filming and hunting. He even invited us down to "the shack" for a coffee and to bs some more. I've been in contact with him a number of times now and he has been nothing but courteous and helpful.

[Mikey Rafiki]

Have yet to encounter any guides while hunting.

Just like any individual, I will assume they are wonderful law abiding citizens unless I have personal experience that makes me think otherwise.

I stay out of the guided areas for the most part anyways. If I'm gonna run into someone at the top of the mountain, he had to use his own two legs to get there just like me.

[horshur]

the reality of "Us against Them" is the longer it goes on the more folks realize that "Them is Us".

I have never had a negitive experience regarding a guide or outfitter and have had very few with any hunter. I have however heard lot's of things about lot's of people. Hunters as a lot are worse Gossips then the old ladies at the prespyiterian church!

[bcmulie]

While hunting on a fly-in trip with my dad a few years back, one of the guides at the nearby G/O's camp invited us over, fed us dinner and let us use their shower. He also gave us a few tips about where to look for sheep. Really nice guy.

A number of G/Os also donate to the WSSOBC, which does great work for wild sheep in our province.

bcmulie

[paw325]

Funny how it works out, a couple of my closest friends are GO's. How we met was totally unrelated to hunting or guiding. What has kept us close is our common love of a lifestyle built in the outdoors, wildlife conservation, habitat conservation, hunting and accurate rifles.

The GO's I have met while hunting in BC have been first class.

Resident hunters... well thats another thread.

[835]

Read the first three pages and though id add,

I hunted a mountain for a number of years. Met the Guide a few times. The first times he was un talkitive but not un friendly. He just wanted to know our plans. Which we told him every time. He was giving us our choice and didnt want run into us hunting. The last couple times as he grew to know us, and new we were already proficcent on this mountain we had some great "Historical" chats about the deer there.

What i think Guides do for us as residents is provide money into, and fight for our rights as hunters. They have a lively hood invested.

I have never been locked out or pushed off an area due to guides. I dont care if he gets a couple extra Rosie tags and charges thousands of dollars for it to some American. I just want a chance to hunt something somewhere.

[tankster]

i have had a few squabbles a couple really bad bad interactions with some guides/outfitters down here in the eask kootenays. mainly just the young gun guides that think they know everything

[Whisky Creek]

You're right Gatehouse. It appears only mods get to dictate. Thought I'd ask anyways and then maybe it might help keep most of the guys on track. And NO, I don't see what the member horshur posted on #61 wasn't negative against guide outfitters....



People can "ask" all they want for no negative, no positive, no this, no that but the fact is anyone that wants to post whatever they choose, can do so (within reason). You don't get to dictate how others respond.



Besides, isn't this a negative?:wink:

[GoatGuy]

As a resident hunter,

Guide outfitters have built most of the horse trail systems in the areas I regularily hunt in, allowing decent access to otherwise inaccessible areas. (Itcha and Ilgachuz, Cassiar)

Guides have taught me everything I know about horse packing which allowed me to be able to hunt areas with my horses that I would otherwise be unable to reasonably access.

Our regional G/O association has contributed large sums of money to fund an ungulate enhancement program which has helped us trappers to control wolf populations resulting in stronger ungulate populations and increased resident hunter opportunity. The financial incentive provided by the program has funded the purchase of trapping supplies to use in my trapping.

G/Os donated meat(s) to our annual rod and gun club banquet dinner and fundraiser. This money raised at this annual event was used to cover the operating costs and maintenance of the club.

The list goes on, but here's a few to start.

Unless you're trapping 40% of the wolf population annually you aren't doing anything to promote stronger ungulate populations and increased resident or any hunter opportunity.



Just trying to keep things factual.

[SHAKER]

It doesn't take much reading on this site to find oodles of posts which speak negatively of Guide Outfitters and Guides in BC. This thread is to relate your personal experiences or observations of how a guide, outfitter and / or the GOABC has contributed in a positive manner to wildlife conservation in BC, contributed to your livelihood and / or helped you out in some way, as a resident hunter. This may include providing job(s) to you, funding wildlife habitat projects, supporting your business through purchasing of equipment and supplies, helping you out while afield and etc, etc.... Negative comments are not welcomed in this thread. If you wish to post those, start your own thread.


Looks like your look'n for a pat on the back and dog cookie for a job well done...

[Confused]

Unless you're trapping 40% of the wolf population annually you aren't doing anything to promote stronger ungulate populations and increased resident or any hunter opportunity.



Just trying to keep things factual.

The ungulate enhancement program is not just about killing wolves. It is expensive to trap wolves, and having the appropriate snares, i.e. breakfree snares, helps ungulates that get trapped in trappers sets. So yes it does help a few ungulates. So subsidizing the trappers helps them aquire these.

Just trying to keep things factual.:mrgreen:

[Gateholio]

]
You're right Gatehouse. It appears only mods get to dictate. Thought I'd ask anyways and then maybe it might help keep most of the guys on track. And NO, I don't see what the member horshur posted on #61 wasn't negative against guide outfitters....

Well, it is indeed a negative point.:wink:

[Whisky Creek]

Actually, you are looking at it wrong GoatGuy and your posted statement is far too generalized. My beliefs, knowledge and experience surrounding wolf breeding habits, impact on ungulate populations and subsequent population recovery are very similar to what Bob Hayes (wolf biologist for 18 years) and Douglas Smith (Yellowstone wolf recovery project leader) have said and written. Bob actually has some interesting reading in his latest book he just published "Wolves of the Yukon" and in conversation with him last week I found his personal experiences while in the capacity as the Yukon's Wolf biologist to be extremely interesting and helpful.
He has decades of field experience, not just a piece of paper from a school.
Doug Smith's experiences are also very unique in that he has been able to see first hand the effects of wolf population control and reintroduction on a scale never before possible in recorded history. He has been able to research the dynamics of pack growth and dispersal so well, because most everything was collared. Takes a lot of the myth out of the equation.
He also observed much that wasn't "mainstream thinking" as taught in "biology school".

In reality, we are achieving localized success in various areas of BC by trapping and removing wolves and in particular certain members of a given wolf pack. To reduce the population and effect an ungulate enhancement on a province wide scale I agree we would need to reduce those number annually and province wide. Since we don't have enough trappers to do this using conventional trapping methods, we will have to be satisfied with localized success and the recovery of local ungulate populations. (Wolf removal has proven to be an important tool in certain localized caribou recovery areas and sheep enhancement areas in Yukon, BC and Alaska). I'm sure you are an expert in wolf trapping, wolf biology and wolf recovery, so maybe we should start a different thread where we can debate the pro's and con's of wolf control. I think it would be an interesting topic and worthy of a discussion.

However, for this thread, your input and experiences would be appreciated in relating your positive experiences with guide outfitters. You mentioned at one time that you have guided in the past so for sure there must be at least a few positive ones???

CLINT

[Whisky Creek]

Looks like your look'n for a pat on the back and dog cookie for a job well done...

Well Shaker, as I am not a guide or an outfitter and have not been involved in any GOABC projects, and therefore not deserving of any dog biscuits or pats on the back for things they've done, I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion.......??????
But hey, its an open forum at Gatehouse has pointed out so you're allowed to post whatever you want, whether it contributes to the thread or not.....:confused:

[GoatGuy]

Actually, you are looking at it wrong GoatGuy and your posted statement is far too generalized. My beliefs, knowledge and experience surrounding wolf breeding habits, impact on ungulate populations and subsequent population recovery are very similar to what Bob Hayes (wolf biologist for 18 years) and Douglas Smith (Yellowstone wolf recovery project leader) have said and written. Bob actually has some interesting reading in his latest book he just published "Wolves of the Yukon" and in conversation with him last week I found his personal experiences while in the capacity as the Yukon's Wolf biologist to be extremely interesting and helpful.
He has decades of field experience, not just a piece of paper from a school.
Doug Smith's experiences are also very unique in that he has been able to see first hand the effects of wolf population control and reintroduction on a scale never before possible in recorded history. He has been able to research the dynamics of pack growth and dispersal so well, because most everything was collared. Takes a lot of the myth out of the equation.
He also observed much that wasn't "mainstream thinking" as taught in "biology school".

In reality, we are achieving localized success in various areas of BC by trapping and removing wolves and in particular certain members of a given wolf pack. To reduce the population and effect an ungulate enhancement on a province wide scale I agree we would need to reduce those number annually and province wide. Since we don't have enough trappers to do this using conventional trapping methods, we will have to be satisfied with localized success and the recovery of local ungulate populations. (Wolf removal has proven to be an important tool in certain localized caribou recovery areas and sheep enhancement areas in Yukon, BC and Alaska). I'm sure you are an expert in wolf trapping, wolf biology and wolf recovery, so maybe we should start a different thread where we can debate the pro's and con's of wolf control. I think it would be an interesting topic and worthy of a discussion.

However, for this thread, your input and experiences would be appreciated in relating your positive experiences with guide outfitters. You mentioned at one time that you have guided in the past so for sure there must be at least a few positive ones???

CLINT


The ungulate enhancement program is not just about killing wolves. It is expensive to trap wolves, and having the appropriate snares, i.e. breakfree snares, helps ungulates that get trapped in trappers sets. So yes it does help a few ungulates. So subsidizing the trappers helps them aquire these.

Just trying to keep things factual.:mrgreen:

It's already been tried and evaluated in areas with trapping in BC.

They use predator and have used predator control in YK, Alaska, Alberta and BC and they've found the two ways to consistently reduce wolf populations is to poison them or shoot them from the air. These findings have been reproduced hundreds of times.

If you are trapping a lot of wolves there is value, but unless that is at least 30% or more of the wolf population you will not realize any results on the ungulate population. Usually what this means a trapper running full-time over a small area can achieve positive results. Otherwise it is a waste of resources.

We've already tried it in BC. Here's some of the stuff from BC.

http://www.llbc.leg.bc.ca/public/pubdocs/bcdocs/162797/techpub_b45.pdf

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/techpub/wr40/wr40_1.pdf


A couple of Canada's most respected wolf biologists:
Douglas Pimlott
A.W.F. Bamfield

Feel free to 'google' their names. James Hatter was around and kept track of a lot of the work in BC as well. He has a couple of books as well.

If either of you would like to contribute some hard numbers or real world science on predator control then feel free. Personally, not interested in the 'anecdotal' reports, more the fact.

The question here is: How many wolves (what percent) do you need to remove from the population annually to make a significant difference in the wolf and thus ungulate populations?

Feel free to ask Bob. You should be aware they experimented with sterilization and were also shooting them from the air when they were doing the caribou work up there. Tell him how big the area for your trapline is and how many wolves you've trapped as well. Not trying to give any one grief on their efforts, just stating that you're better off doing things that will achieve results as opposed to wasting resources.

[willy442]

Part 1
It is very enlightening to see the many forum members giving a realistic view of what guides do and have done for those posting. It's also disheartening to see the various posters that are trying to discredit a group that have the most hands on (not scientific) experiance and knowledge of pretty much all of B.C.s back country. Be assured there is still alot more who could post on the good they have done. However for whatever reason they fail to come forward. Too bad!

My family started in the guiding business the year after areas were allocated by the government. We bought the area from Lash Callison for 60,000.00 dollars. The year was 1962, from that time until we sold in 1993. I grew up from a young lad climbing mountains, hunting with guides and hunters, learning the ropes from the age of 8. From then until our sale I was both taught by my personal experiences through guiding and the assistance of proffessionals to maintain a keen interest in variuos wildlife and their seasonal habits. The opportunity available to me was a front row seat to watching first hand, one of the greatest ecosystems in the world from our living room window so to speak.

Through trapping after school hours, to hunting as a guide during the operating season. I enjoyed a lifestyle that many would cherish and others didn't have the time of day for. Over my guiding career, I was priviledged to meet many of the worlds celebrities from both private and public life. Many of whom were people that had a long term effect on my own success after the hunting was done. It gave me a reason and opportunity to travel around North America attending shows and private residences of the early pioneers of sheep hunting. These vists allowed me to view some of the worlds greatest trophy rooms and animal artistry known to man.

The everyday operation of the business taught me how to hunt, horseman ship, packing, skinning and care of hides, it opened the door for me to fly as a bush pilot and most of all insilled in me a great respect for our remote wilderness and conservation. It taught me that a hand shake was as good as signed document, although with people today, not too many have the same values.

Through my fathers involvement in the political arena by being in various postions within the GOABC, Northern BC Guides, Habitat Conservation Board and many special interest work groups and appointments on committies. I was able to attend with him on many occassions and got to watch first hand the political wrangling that takes place in regards to our hunting in B.C. The scope of these meetings covered everything from closed door meetings with the BCWF that were peacefull and productive to disagreements and all out wars. Back then in the end usually everyone walked out with a direction and a plan forward. I watched both sides present resolutions the were absolutely ******ed, but were put forth to enhance the bargaining for one side or the other in front of Government.

[willy442]

Part 2
From the time of attending meetings to present day we have seen alot more competition for access and use of our back country. This has made the direction or focus of many turn from animals first, to an allocation policy that has become the rift between two groups and it's advancing like cancer, succeeding in eliminating our ability to work toward a common goal among the biggest user groups. The present day finger pointing will never turn to be of any assistance to the management or conservation of our game herds. It can only ever achieve to assist in maintaining a socially based disagreement between people that have so much in common. The quota system is an absolute necessity for the guide outfitters as it is the bases of putting a value on our resource for the purpose of non resident utilization. If it were to be abolished the selling price of our sheep hunts sold on the world market would decline drastically. There fore it will never happen regardless of what paper the GOABC has put forward.

Now! What has my family done that has directly helped our wild life?

We were founding members of both Safari Club and The Foundation for Norht American Wild Sheep Society. In the years of these 2 now powerful hunting clubs developing we donated hunts annually to both help meet thier operating expense and to fund enhancement projects throughout North America. In later years the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and the Grand Slam Club started and we equally supported them.
The following is the list of hunts we fully donated over the years.

1. 4 mixed bag 21 day hunts for all game including Sheep.
2. 11 hunts for Stone Sheep only.
3. 16 mixed bag hunts excluding sheep.
4. Donated time and packstrings to take groups of Big Brothers and Sisters kids out and give them a wilderness experience. (I can still see the satisfaction on some of thier faces yet today)

This does not include dollars spent at auctions raising funds or time spent working for things like predator control, habitat burns, which brought the Elk into this country for all to hunt. Nor other things we used to donate and do in conjuction with the ministry prior to the eventual resident favortism cry's.

On two occassions I have loaded hunters gear and sheep onto my pack train and carried them out to the high way on our way in for a hunt change. Unfortunately the hunters had to walk as i didn't have spare saddles or horses for them to ride.I have never had a hunter, prospector or other go through my camp and not be treated with the same hospitality issued to the paying client. Many have shared my tents, food and camp fires over the years. I have had dealings with some outside the hunting area on leased farm land, that were not nearly as cordial. I think they learned very quickly, you get exactly what you ask for when you cross the line with attitude.

I have taken 2 seperate groups into the mountains as friends and have been very successful in our harvest of game. In fact the group I harvested my own ram with, took 4 over 40 inches and we won the gold and bronze awards at FNAWS. My point being contrary to what some think, I was not afraid of taking resident hunters into the heart of our sheep country. To the present day I continually help those who respectfully request sheep hunting techniques and locations.

I would suggest that in most cases if you've been dealt a bad card from an outfitter you were probably stacking the deck.:)

[Deaddog]

in any group there are "bad apples" that said I personally have not had any negative dealings with outfitters, moon lake outfitters were more than reasonable on a sheep hunt.. I called them to let them know I was coming in and the dates (I do this for most outfitters when I am going sheep hunting into spots I know they take clients), he was fantastic, asked me which area I wanted to hunt and he took the other, then when they had taken their ram he came over and let us know they were done and to hunt wherever, this has worked well for me with BC Safarias as well. We run into the guides from Tuchodi river outfitters every year, they are always polite, this year they marked the trail with ribbon to warn us of a kill just of the trail, another year we were bunked down in a storm, horses tied to the hitching post when the outfitter rode in, he was great about it and let us stay the night, I am sure that someday I will have a bad expereince as that is people, however I have no complaints regarding how I have been treated in the feild by the guiding communtiy. AND I love hunting and hiking around on the guide trails, without them the area I hunt would be unreachable.. DD

[eastkoothunter]

Bart Lancaster has provided me with many hours of enjoyable hunting videos

[dukester]

Positive.. while i was with the BCSF Initial attack , if we needed place to spend the night and a good meal, they always opened the door. even when the camp was full we tented at there main lodges and were fed.

[Junorr500]

Reamed me out for hunting on "his" crown land.

[blackbart]

GO's and their websites have given me lots of information regarding trophy quality and game habitat in any given territory. Thanks fella's, much appreciated!

I in return have provided them with some firewood, caught horses, fixed corrals, left food, made ortho maps for use at shows and tried to stay out of their way while hunting.

In life you tend to get what you give, regardless of the situation.

[Nait Hadya]

In life you tend to get what you give, regardless of the situation.

old time values eh, well folks is taking what aint theirs so they don't need to worry bout giving.

[dana]

I've guided for a few seasons, so one positive is I got a paycheck. Negative is the bugger owed me a lot more than what my last paycheck was. What goes around comes around though. He couldn't find anyone to guide a goat hunt the next year because he had screwed all his guides over, so he and his son guided that hunt themselves. They then poached 2 goats out of a No Goat Hunting Zone and got nailed for it. Needless to say the guy ain't an outfitter anymore.

[Snowpatrol]

Nice in theory Dutchie. But, if you happen to read the GOABC's "Economic Viability" lobby paper that essentially looks to shut residents out of many of our hunting opportunities, you might then know the truth and see just who is in it for themselves.

One does NOT ensure the future of hunting by closing down resident seasons, putting residents on LEH just so rich foreigners can have the bush to themselves, and charging $150US to each client to be used to hire professional lobbyists to achieve these closures of residents' seasons.

You are so uneducated about the GOABC ! Thanks for your opinion though !

[358mag]

Jezz very hard to belive this is the same Hunting BC after reading the
"Historic Sheep Harvest in 7B" post

[NaStY]

Jezz very hard to belive this is the same Hunting BC after reading the
"Historic Sheep Harvest in 7B" post

Thats because were in between seasons......

[Snowpatrol]

How can a logging company keep you from hunting land? I don't think it is their land they might lease the wood rights but don't have the right to tell you you can't be on crown land. I was told i could not hunt in a area by a hunter/logging group of guys. They had a BS excuse why. I saw latter on that they had a truck full of black tails. The next day I went in there to get my dear.

I think you will find that a lot of the logging companies on the island actually do OWN quite a bit of the land.. Not the timber rights but Own the land !

[bridger]

let me count the ways. ????????

[pro 111]

One thing a guide did for me was tell me where not to go. I went there right away and scored a big ram he was saving for some rich yank.:-D

[NaStY]

Im all for a great discussion and fact based debate, but when its starts getting to the "elementary school" pointing fingers and calling each other names. Well it just gets boring and well, locked. Just like this one is.

[willy442]

I would like to thank the MOderator that reopened what is a very good thread. :-D

[stoneguide]

I would like to thank the MOderator that reopened what is a very good thread. :-D

X2 was totaly suprised when it was locked. Thanks again!
SG

[safarichris]

X2 was totaly suprised when it was locked. Thanks again!
SG

Ditto that. It is a great thread that enlightens everyone. Kinda like hanging a wash out to dry, you get so see the colors and the idiots.

[stoneguide]

Ditto that. It is a great thread that enlightens everyone. Kinda like hanging a wash out to dry, you get so see the colors and the idiots.

Darn I dont even want to know if im the colors or the idiot! :mrgreen:
Oh well never was one to worry about what people thought LOL.
SG

[stoneguide]

The funny thing is that non of the members that have hired an Outfitter to help them have posted anything.
SG

[kootenayslam]

I think outfitters are great to have around for wildlife, the sport of hunting and the economy, but....that being said...... once a year they should have to go through a "how to share" course because many do feel a little too entitled to the land.

[tankster]

if it were not for outfitters .. hunting today would be alot worse then it is right now. i gaurentee sheep would all be draw and there would be no chance in hell to hunt gbears

[srupp]

I have had the great the good the bad and the ugly...

GREAT Clayton Mack, Betty Franks, 2 individuals I owe much of what I know about Grizzly hunting..literally took me in ..giving me paid employment to guide AND learn..Gerry Bracewell another GREAT lady who freely shared her world of wisdom..

Russ Cummings who taught me a wealth of info on moose...Thomas from TNT who guided me on my first sturgeon trip...30 sturgeon in one day...Dale Frame from Gold river with steelhead..

Mr Doug Mcmann and Julie who have taught me so much about GCOUGARS..:mrgreen: and spelling...lol..literally opened up their home for a client..widom and information you dont get in books..

others have been difficult if not hostile...sabataging my camp..actually caught them dragging my tent through the creek with horses...sheep hunt..LOTS of low fly overs scouting..scaring sheep...

what I have leartned from the good ones...many lifetimes of knowlege...and YES I do use their trails ...and am thankful for that also..

But have helped several guides out also..lol remember a rookie grizzly guide and his Pissed off client..2 days left on his 14 day(unusually long trip) and helped them with info and trails and how to..EVEN THOUGH I WAS OUT THERE LOOKING FOR A GRIZZLY ALSO LEH in hand..


cheers
Steven:mrgreen:

[ufishifish2]

The funny thing is that non of the members that have hired an Outfitter to help them have posted anything.
SG

Well duuuh! It`s been a one way street with the only guys requested to post on here to be strokin' the guides and outfitters. The rest of us have just been sitting back watching the circle jerk!!!

[Jelvis]

I don't get it everyone seems to dislike guides and now that they want the guides to stay, read on the political thread. You can't have it both ways or just the way you want it.
Jel .. read the political article with the new thread .... bcwf call to action .. how come now?

[CanuckShooter]

I don't get it everyone seems to dislike guides and now that they want the guides to stay, read on the political thread. You can't have it both ways or just the way you want it.
Jel .. read the political article with the new thread .... bcwf call to action .. how come now?

FNs....it's political....my only beef with guides is they don't have to apply for LEH like the rest of us....and that isn't their fault.:-D

[g_worsnop]

been buzzed a few times

[Hunt'n Guide]

I've been both a resident hunter encountering guides and a guide running into resident hunters while working. In either case I am polite and friendly and have had mostly positive encounters. Most residents that I run into in the field while guiding never know that I am working and I bet that is the case often with all of you unless you run into a guide at an outfitters camp. The only time I've had a negative encounter was years ago when I ran into some residents that realised I was guiding and they had attitude from the start.
We all have an equal right to hunt in a given area. I can't tell you to get out of my spot and you can't tell me to leave your spot regardless of if one of us is guiding. The polite thing is to let the first guy there hunt it how he wants and not to interfere.
When I guide in an area that has resident pressure the first thing I am thinking about every day is "where can I go and not run into anyone?" It makes my hunt easier if there isn't anyone to mess up my stalk and it gives my client a better, more enjoyable hunt if there are not people crawling everywhere.
Working as a guide for outfitters has done more for me than I can easily say. It is just like the reasons most people hunt, the friends you make and the experiences you have over the years are priceless.

[Snowpatrol]

You must mean glen venus. I woulda thought he owned iron river, conflict of interest maybe. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.. Locked to us, open to him. bs , wheres the govt reps when you need them

Glen and ALL the other outfitters on the island have land use agreements with BOTH Island Timberlands and Timber West ! Doesn't have much to do with Glen working for Island Timberlands ! He doesn't have much to do with it. Its the GOABC on the island that has fought for the land use for the outfitters. But hey.. you're entitled to your opinions !

[Fisher-Dude]

Actually, guides have helped us a couple of times now. They tried to sneak in and kill bull elk that we were already bugling, twice. Both times they spooked the bulls right into us, my brother shooting one and I the other. Thanks guys! :-D

[willy442]

Glen and ALL the other outfitters on the island have land use agreements with BOTH Island Timberlands and Timber West ! Doesn't have much to do with Glen working for Island Timberlands ! He doesn't have much to do with it. Its the GOABC on the island that has fought for the land use for the outfitters. But hey.. you're entitled to your opinions !

It's actually way easier to gain access to these types of places if you are a commercial user. The big reason is many of these logging and mining companies over the years have had extensive damage to equipment and materials from unruley people some may have been hunters and others not, but as a rule they can give a commercial user access and expect thier property to go unharmed. Too bad but it just takes a couple bad characters to affect us all.

[urbanhermit]

It's actually way easier to gain access to these types of places if you are a commercial user. The big reason is many of these logging and mining companies over the years have had extensive damage to equipment and materials from unruley people some may have been hunters and others not, but as a rule they can give a commercial user access and expect thier property to go unharmed. Too bad but it just takes a couple bad characters to affect us all.
x2, thats about the size of it.

[willy442]

Actually, guides have helped us a couple of times now. They tried to sneak in and kill bull elk that we were already bugling, twice. Both times they spooked the bulls right into us, my brother shooting one and I the other. Thanks guys! :-D

And I'm sure you have proof of these being guides. Glad to see some one ran something by your quad.:-D

[stoneguide]

Well duuuh! It`s been a one way street with the only guys requested to post on here to be strokin' the guides and outfitters. The rest of us have just been sitting back watching the circle jerk!!!

Did you even read what I said? I simply stated its funny that guys that have paid for the use of the services of a guide to help them get their animals havent stated anything.
I know there are a few here that use the outfitters just like the non residents do. In 2009 I guided 4 Stone hunts in BC and 50% of the hunters I took were resident hunters! And a few of the other camps also had resident hunters.

I guess what im saying is outfitters dont just take non residents!

SG

[Fisher-Dude]

And I'm sure you have proof of these being guides. Glad to see some one ran something by your quad.:-D

Sure do. Talked with both of them and their clients after we made our kills.

Was interesting to see the one packing a 44 on his hip. He was quite proud of it. I guess laws don't apply to some people.

[willy442]

Sure do. Talked with both of them and their clients after we made our kills.

Was interesting to see the one packing a 44 on his hip. He was quite proud of it. I guess laws don't apply to some people.

Actually there are legal ways for a person to carry an unconcealled weapon or pistol if you go through the proper channels. The easiest is with a miners permit for your info.:)

Before you accuse people please know what you're talking about.

[ruger#1]

And with a miners permit, You cannot use it for hunting or anything else but minning.

[Hunt'n Guide]

It's actually way easier to gain access to these types of places if you are a commercial user. The big reason is many of these logging and mining companies over the years have had extensive damage to equipment and materials from unruley people some may have been hunters and others not, but as a rule they can give a commercial user access and expect thier property to go unharmed. Too bad but it just takes a couple bad characters to affect us all.

To guide on private timberlands takes about ten times the paperwork as signing a mortgage. You have to sign off on everything from radio procedures to spill response plans just like every other contractor working on the claim.

[yote]

While Moose hunting in Atwell Lake in the Chilcotin. The day after we passed the outfitters on a small 4x4 trail with our moose, they gave us the opportunity to use our chainsaws and come alongs to remove the trees that they cut across the road to try and keep us out of the area. We also got the opportunity to try a hand at building small bridges over the creeks that they destroyed the bridges from. I guess they built the bridges in the first place so maybe they were just going to use them somewhere else.:-D:-D

Oh ya, in Vanderhoof they gave me the opportunity to repair the flat on my atv that somehow got punctured by trying to circumnavigate the boulders that they placed on the pulbic road with their machinery so they could have Moose lake all to themselves. No idea how the nails got there between those boulders.:-D:-D

Thanks for making me feel that always being prepared for anything is still the right way to be. It's not all for not.:-D

[willy442]

While Moose hunting in Atwell Lake in the Chilcotin. The day after we passed the outfitters on a small 4x4 trail with our moose, they gave us the opportunity to use our chainsaws and come alongs to remove the trees that they cut across the road to try and keep us out of the area. We also got the opportunity to try a hand at building small bridges over the creeks that they destroyed the bridges from. I guess they built the bridges in the first place so maybe they were just going to use them somewhere else.:-D:-D

Oh ya, in Vanderhoof they gave me the opportunity to repair the flat on my atv that somehow got punctured by trying to circumnavigate the boulders that they placed on the pulbic road with their machinery so they could have Moose lake all to themselves. No idea how the nails got there between those boulders.:-D:-D

Thanks for making me feel that always being prepared for anything is still the right way to be. It's not all for not.:-D

Not say it wasn't a G/O but this kind of conduct is far more common amongst people that pay taxes and buy resident hunting licence's.

[GoatGuy]

Well duuuh! It`s been a one way street with the only guys requested to post on here to be strokin' the guides and outfitters. The rest of us have just been sitting back watching the circle jerk!!!

hahaha. This thread is certainly close-minded and has asked for only one response! Sounds like somebody's trying to reinvent communism. "I'll tell you what you'll say!"

Truth be told I've worked for some good outfitts and some bad. While hunting as a resident had some good experiences and some bad. Have shared camp with many and had beers and dinner with several others. Have several friends in the industry that I've helped out and sent clients their way etc. Have also had outfitters walk into the spot we're glassing and sit right behind us and set up shop. Just like everything else there are good and bad apples.

Some outfitters today are hunters who buy hunting licenses and hunt outside of their outfits, many of them don't and they're businessmen, not hunters. There is a significant difference between the two.

A couple of outfitters have donated meat to club fundraisers.

At the high level conservation related work, stewardship and habitat enhancement there isn't anything bad to say but there isn't anything good to say either. The majority of the projects I've been involved in outfitters have not contributed to but have benefited largely from. There have been other projects where the outfitters have been actively involved in. Once again, it depends on the area, species and most importantly the outfitter.

Same with policy and allocations. These aren't typically issues of the 'outfitter' more of the organization that represents them. As a resident hunter none of these issues have benefited me and have been detrimental to my ability to hunt and harvest wildlife in BC. Over the last 30 years as a resident hunter my 'share' of what is typically a declining moose population has decreased and been given to outfitters in Regions 3,4,5,6,7a,7b and 8. Outfitters quota in BC for moose have never been so high, nor have regulations supported 'trophy production' as they are today and resident allocation has never been so low. The same can be said for several other species and hunts including sheep, goat, grizzly bear and deer.

So, overall, just like everything else there are good outfitters and there are bad. The folks I still keep in touch with are the guys who hunt. They're the guys who will go to bat for hunting and residents and for 'guys who want to take their kids out hunting'. They're the guys who get involved in projects even if it doesn't 'benefit them first'. Unfortunately, they're a dying breed and they are not being heard or represented by GOABC; truth be told some of them have cashed in their memberships with the organization and others never bothered to join. I can think of one old fella that I admire who has done more for wildlife in the EK than the entire Kootenay guide association ever has, but he refused to join the association.

[safarichris]

I helped a resident get a huge six point elk. Taking a pack string down the Prairie
once i saw a guy sitting on a hill just above the trail. This was in the middle of nowhere. How he got there was a lot of hard work. When We all got closer, it turned out to be my buddy Coin Callison. I was quite shocked to see him there. I couldn't quite let on to everyone that i knew him, but he said he was after a nice Bull Elk. Anyone that would work that hard to get into the that specific area
,sure did deserve it. I kept flicking my head to him to look up above him. He finally got the message and looked up. About five hundred yards above him was a huge six pointer. Nothing was said. We went on down the trail about a mile and Bang Bang. I smiled and rode on. I always will help someone who has the balls to work for his game. Three days later when I returned going for Goats, he had it all dressed out packed in with a backpack. I truly look up to dedicated hunters who will put an effort into hunting and will always be there in an emergency to assist anybody.
maybe it's just my nature. I surely would not do anything to ruin a persons hunt after he has worked so hard for it. For many it is their entire vacation for the year and theirs alone to enjoy.

[Fisher-Dude]

And with a miners permit, You cannot use it for hunting or anything else but minning.

Don't confuse Willy with facts!

I guess the heat-packin' guide could have had a sluice box in his pants that I didn't see, but the elk bugle around his neck, Realtree from head to toe, and the other guy with the Southern accent packing the shiny new 338 sure made it look like they were hunting! :mrgreen:

[SHAKER]

Well Shaker, as I am not a guide or an outfitter and have not been involved in any GOABC projects, and therefore not deserving of any dog biscuits or pats on the back for things they've done, I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion.......??????
But hey, its an open forum at Gatehouse has pointed out so you're allowed to post whatever you want, whether it contributes to the thread or not.....:confused:

Good this got reopened.... So what's so the intent of such of waste of time thread other then to put the commercial side up on a pedestal.

This was posted by you on the Looooong winded sheep thread that STILL going....

"Another thing, the GOABC isn't the devil you like to pretend. (I actually think that guy lives somewhere much hotter can be spotted by carrying a red pitchfork...) The majority of outfitters are BC residents who have as much right to make a living utilizing a resource as any other resident of BC."

Guess its my opinion but sounds pro-guide to me! I would like a business that was guranteed economicaly viable!

[bridger]

there is a very real distinction between an industry having legislated viability and an individual business within that industry having legislated viability.

[olharley guy]

I helped a resident get a huge six point elk. Taking a pack string down the Prairie
once i saw a guy sitting on a hill just above the trail. This was in the middle of nowhere. How he got there was a lot of hard work. When We all got closer, it turned out to be my buddy Coin Callison. I was quite shocked to see him there. I couldn't quite let on to everyone that i knew him, but he said he was after a nice Bull Elk. Anyone that would work that hard to get into the that specific area
,sure did deserve it. I kept flicking my head to him to look up above him. He finally got the message and looked up. About five hundred yards above him was a huge six pointer. Nothing was said. We went on down the trail about a mile and Bang Bang. I smiled and rode on. I always will help someone who has the balls to work for his game. Three days later when I returned going for Goats, he had it all dressed out packed in with a backpack. I truly look up to dedicated hunters who will put an effort into hunting and will always be there in an emergency to assist anybody.
maybe it's just my nature. I surely would not do anything to ruin a persons hunt after he has worked so hard for it. For many it is their entire vacation for the year and theirs alone to enjoy.


Howdy, is this the same Coyne Callison -Lynch the father from Iskut way?
If it is-years ago he took me out on a horse back goat hunt where I shot my 11 incher.
We were pretty good friends-dad was an old grouch. Ha!

Bad experience was a while back-4X4'd into a sheep area on the BC/Yukon border-buddy was glassing about 100 ft. away-I was stretched out on the front seat of the truck-heard some horses coming up to my buddy and then some nasty talk!

Sat up and saw the guide with 2 other hunters and he pulled his rifle out of his scabbard and started to tell my friend to get back in his truck and get out of the area - waving the gun in bud's general direction -the two hunters looked shocked.

He knew the sound of the hammer being pulled back on the .41 mag. Ruger and listened to what I had to say and they left quite smartly.

Good things over the years- used to have coffee and dinner with a lot of the well known G/O from northern B.C. and trade stories of sheep and wolf sightings and more. This was in Watson Lake where most of the fly-in hunts started from.

Back then they were all super friendly and sociable-helped work on each others supercubs-lots would just come to the house for a visit instead of spending the evening in the bars.

So far only one bad experience in 30 years up there and that one made me a little nervous but everything worked out for the best.

A little story-The wife used to sell the hunting licences and tags to them and one time these rich guys from New York or ? were picking up there stuff and noticed she had a large gold nugget ring on.

He said is that real and she said yes, took it off and handed it to him to have a look.

He said you would never do this where I come from and she said you would never get out of the store if you didn't give it back where I come from-the outfitter was smirking when he turned away-he thought it was funny and so did I.

As I said earlier -one bad experience and lots of good friendly times with those guys. Later

[knighthunter]

One time I had a moose down in an ungodly area of mud and swamp and I knew I would never get it out (hunting by myself) with the weather being warm. So, I phoned up an outfitter that I'd known for a long time and I knew he had a bunch of pack horses. He met me in a couple of hours and we went in and got that moose out the same day. When it came time to settle up, he wouldn't take any money but he said a feed or 2 of moose meat over the winter would sure be a treat for him and his family.

[willy442]

Don't confuse Willy with facts!

I guess the heat-packin' guide could have had a sluice box in his pants that I didn't see, but the elk bugle around his neck, Realtree from head to toe, and the other guy with the Southern accent packing the shiny new 338 sure made it look like they were hunting! :mrgreen:

I guess you either forgot or didn't comprehend the part that said was the easiest way to get a permit.

[willy442]

Good this got reopened.... So what's so the intent of such of waste of time thread other then to put the commercial side up on a pedestal.

This was posted by you on the Looooong winded sheep thread that STILL going....

"Another thing, the GOABC isn't the devil you like to pretend. (I actually think that guy lives somewhere much hotter can be spotted by carrying a red pitchfork...) The majority of outfitters are BC residents who have as much right to make a living utilizing a resource as any other resident of BC."

Guess its my opinion but sounds pro-guide to me! I would like a business that was guranteed economicaly viable!

Get your money out. I'm sure theres more than one guy out there that would trade his licence for your cash.

[safarichris]

Howdy, is this the same Coyne Callison -Lynch the father from Iskut way?
If it is-years ago he took me out on a horse back goat hunt where I shot my 11 incher.
We were pretty good friends-dad was an old grouch. Ha!

Bad experience was a while back-4X4'd into a sheep area on the BC/Yukon border-buddy was glassing about 100 ft. away-I was stretched out on the front seat of the truck-heard some horses coming up to my buddy and then some nasty talk!

Sat up and saw the guide with 2 other hunters and he pulled his rifle out of his scabbard and started to tell my friend to get back in his truck and get out of the area - waving the gun in bud's general direction -the two hunters looked shocked.

He knew the sound of the hammer being pulled back on the .41 mag. Ruger and listened to what I had to say and they left quite smartly.

Good things over the years- used to have coffee and dinner with a lot of the well known G/O from northern B.C. and trade stories of sheep and wolf sightings and more. This was in Watson Lake where most of the fly-in hunts started from.

Back then they were all super friendly and sociable-helped work on each others supercubs-lots would just come to the house for a visit instead of spending the evening in the bars.

So far only one bad experience in 30 years up there and that one made me a little nervous but everything worked out for the best.

A little story-The wife used to sell the hunting licences and tags to them and one time these rich guys from New York or ? were picking up there stuff and noticed she had a large gold nugget ring on.

He said is that real and she said yes, took it off and handed it to him to have a look.

He said you would never do this where I come from and she said you would never get out of the store if you didn't give it back where I come from-the outfitter was smirking when he turned away-he thought it was funny and so did I.

As I said earlier -one bad experience and lots of good friendly times with those guys. Later

[quote=olharley guy;852598]Howdy, is this the same Coyne Callison -Lynch the father from Iskut way?
Yes, it was the same Coyne Callison. I am friends with the whole family. Lynch was a character now. Quite the old timer I'll tell ya.

[M.Dean]

The GO's are making money off our wildlife, Loggers make money off our tree's, miners make money off our Minerals, Investment Brokers make money off us cuz were stupid! I know some Guides and Outfitters, there all great guys! I hunt with them every year, they know there shit, like to share different ways to hunt game and do way more than there share of the work! I've heard many of there story's about clients, local and from across the border, and they have no easy task! You have to be a good cook, a entertainer, a errand boy, a Therapist, you look after horses, you pack meat until you bleed, then get back to camp, clean and hang the animal, mix drinks and cook steaks for supper, you do dishes, your a barmaid, and at times a Referee! You take lazy fat guys into a swamp, call a moose in and he's asleep! You get woke up at 2:00am to cook ribs for the guys that have been drinking all night, watch that guy, his guns loaded with the safety off, his buddy's still drunk and wants to go home, they ate all the food for a 10 day fly in hunt in 4 days!!! The guy from over sea's wants the guide to stop the truck and cook him a hot dog, and don't burn it like yesterday! The idiot hunting grizzly bear fires before he's told, now you go in the brush, to try and finish off a wounded and pissed off Bear! Guides work hard for there money, the reason they do it, because they love the sport!!! After putting up with 30 days of Baby Sitting they plan there hunt's, and if your real lucky, they'll invite you along!!! I have lots of respect for Most Guides and Outfitters, there's way easier Jobs for far better Money!!!

[willy442]

The GO's are making money off our wildlife, Loggers make money off our tree's, miners make money off our Minerals, Investment Brokers make money off us cuz were stupid! I know some Guides and Outfitters, there all great guys! I hunt with them every year, they know there shit, like to share different ways to hunt game and do way more than there share of the work! I've heard many of there story's about clients, local and from across the border, and they have no easy task! You have to be a good cook, a entertainer, a errand boy, a Therapist, you look after horses, you pack meat until you bleed, then get back to camp, clean and hang the animal, mix drinks and cook steaks for supper, you do dishes, your a barmaid, and at times a Referee! You take lazy fat guys into a swamp, call a moose in and he's asleep! You get woke up at 2:00am to cook ribs for the guys that have been drinking all night, watch that guy, his guns loaded with the safety off, his buddy's still drunk and wants to go home, they ate all the food for a 10 day fly in hunt in 4 days!!! The guy from over sea's wants the guide to stop the truck and cook him a hot dog, and don't burn it like yesterday! The idiot hunting grizzly bear fires before he's told, now you go in the brush, to try and finish off a wounded and pissed off Bear! Guides work hard for there money, the reason they do it, because they love the sport!!! After putting up with 30 days of Baby Sitting they plan there hunt's, and if your real lucky, they'll invite you along!!! I have lots of respect for Most Guides and Outfitters, there's way easier Jobs for far better Money!!!

Well said M. Dean; One thing I never allowed in camp was excessive drinking though. If you were hung over in the morning you stayed in camp. The ground rules were set and up front, never had an issue. Had lots say screw it we are drinking tonight and sleeping in though.

[lip_ripper00]

Well said Mr Dean; One thing I never allowed in camp was excessive drinking though. If you were hung over in the morning you stayed in camp. The ground rules were set and up front, never had an issue. Had lots say screw it we are drinking tonight and sleeping in though.


Heeeeeeeyyy willy! In all fairness Mr.Dean,and M.Dean are 2 different people.......:wink:

[lip_ripper00]

I guess you nailed me. Just goes to show I still haven't totally give up on the real Mr. Dean.:)

Ouch!!:mrgreen:

[safarichris]

You know thats a dam good question. Let me go back in time a few years before many of the young hunters here in the Forum were even born. I watched an Outfitter shake his head in total disbelief as he watched an entire landscape destroyed of an entire deer herd before his eyes. We are talking about the one time largest deer population in this great Province of ours. Not by the Outfitter who was trying to carve out a living guiding local B.C. residents, Nor by the Rancher who owned the property or by the resident hunter trying only to fill his freezer with meat to feed his family. But by the simple stroke of a pen made by a B.C. Biologist who probably had a degree in sea shells, whose nuts just dropped a week earlier and who with that simple stroke of the pen, issued three deer tags in an area. An area he figured was over populated and needed a little heavier hunting. That area was Empire Valley sitting beside the famous Gang Ranch. That was the largest deer population we had at the time. Thousands were slaughtered and it has been over forty years. It is true mother nature has a way of healing itself in time, but thats how easy it is for a simple mark on a piece of paper can ruin hunting for an entire generation. Outfitters can chew out the resident for this and that. The resident can chew out the Outfitter for this and that. The bottom line is all the negotiations between the parties means little when some asshole kid in the Ministry of the Environment makes that final mark and decides what is best in his view. Government should never be allowed to make the decision about the future of our wildlife by themselves. They would screw up the Lords Prayer if left unchecked. Who pays the price?

[SHAKER]

Get your money out. I'm sure theres more than one guy out there that would trade his licence for your cash.

Mine as well sell my soul to the devil while I'm at it.

[Snowpatrol]

It's actually way easier to gain access to these types of places if you are a commercial user. The big reason is many of these logging and mining companies over the years have had extensive damage to equipment and materials from unruley people some may have been hunters and others not, but as a rule they can give a commercial user access and expect thier property to go unharmed. Too bad but it just takes a couple bad characters to affect us all.

I agree with you willy442 100%. It only takes a couple punks who are up in the bush partying it up, to wreck a few pieces of machinery and we're all effected by it. The previous posts were blaming the outfitters position in his career to have soul access.... which is not a true statement in my opinion. It is all commercial users that have access. Including trappers and miners ! Its a jealousy issue in my mind !

[wiggy]

Was elk hunting once on a leh a bunch of years ago and ran into a old guide. Bobby Turner; he was over 70 at the time and had a camp set up at 7000 ft. He invited over for dinner the next day. When i arrived his wife was with him and they cooked me a turkey dinner. No shit; turkey dinner at 7000ft. Think he had it for a US dude that didnt show up and it would have been right around their Thanksgiving. Anyway; i ended up staying 3 nights. He'd been hunting his turf since the 30s. He was just a bonehonest simple super dude. Anyways after bs with him enough he changed my whole perspective to hunting sheep and in fact life. Id been runnin around mtns pretty well killin anything that i was allowed to kill. That man had only shot one ram in over 40 years. Beauty sheep; he told me one day up high that if he could let the thing go and chase him all over again that would be a dream. He also showed me a thing about integrity and respect of nature. The difference between hunting and killing. I never saw him again but tell ya he was a gift in my life. Ya know even in the off season him and wife Sunny would travel the world to track dinosaur tracks; how cool is that. Well this year is my 32 year hunting BHs and i havent squeezed as im still lookin for the ONE. Seen lots of legal rams hunting and seen some that i would kaboodle in a instant if i could run into them during open season. Every year now i get juiced up even more and im already making plans for a new hike this year. Thanks Bobby

[Snowpatrol]

Sure do. Talked with both of them and their clients after we made our kills.

Was interesting to see the one packing a 44 on his hip. He was quite proud of it. I guess laws don't apply to some people.

It is not all that hard for a guide to get a occupational permit to carry ! Timber cruisers, miners, guides etc. are able to apply ! Many guides have them !

[willy442]

I agree with you willy442 100%. It only takes a couple punks who are up in the bush partying it up, to wreck a few pieces of machinery and we're all effected by it. The previous posts were blaming the outfitters position in his career to have soul access.... which is not a true statement in my opinion. It is all commercial users that have access. Including trappers and miners ! Its a jealousy issue in my mind !

Yes it is jealousy. It would rub me the wrong way also if I pulled up to a closed gate hunting public lands and someone came along and drove through. The thing we have to remember is why. If some people had a little more respect for private property. Issue's like this probably wouldn't exist. On the Alberta side of the border, Forestry requires we put up metal gates on some of our oilfield roads and keep them locked during spring calving and again during hunting season. They are scared of over harvest from hunting in the fall in sensitive areas. Pretty much all oil companies have rules against carrying firearms in vehicles while in the field. I have seen some pretty mad hunters at times though, when gates are locked.

[paw325]

The GO's are making money off our wildlife, Loggers make money off our tree's, miners make money off our Minerals, Investment Brokers make money off us cuz were stupid! I know some Guides and Outfitters, there all great guys! I hunt with them every year, they know there shit, like to share different ways to hunt game and do way more than there share of the work! I've heard many of there story's about clients, local and from across the border, and they have no easy task! You have to be a good cook, a entertainer, a errand boy, a Therapist, you look after horses, you pack meat until you bleed, then get back to camp, clean and hang the animal, mix drinks and cook steaks for supper, you do dishes, your a barmaid, and at times a Referee! You take lazy fat guys into a swamp, call a moose in and he's asleep! You get woke up at 2:00am to cook ribs for the guys that have been drinking all night, watch that guy, his guns loaded with the safety off, his buddy's still drunk and wants to go home, they ate all the food for a 10 day fly in hunt in 4 days!!! The guy from over sea's wants the guide to stop the truck and cook him a hot dog, and don't burn it like yesterday! The idiot hunting grizzly bear fires before he's told, now you go in the brush, to try and finish off a wounded and pissed off Bear! Guides work hard for there money, the reason they do it, because they love the sport!!! After putting up with 30 days of Baby Sitting they plan there hunt's, and if your real lucky, they'll invite you along!!! I have lots of respect for Most Guides and Outfitters, there's way easier Jobs for far better Money!!!

M.Dean, a whole lot of sense made in that one sentence.......

[stoneguide]

Was elk hunting once on a leh a bunch of years ago and ran into a old guide. Bobby Turner; he was over 70 at the time and had a camp set up at 7000 ft. He invited over for dinner the next day. When i arrived his wife was with him and they cooked me a turkey dinner. No shit; turkey dinner at 7000ft. Think he had it for a US dude that didnt show up and it would have been right around their Thanksgiving. Anyway; i ended up staying 3 nights. He'd been hunting his turf since the 30s. He was just a bonehonest simple super dude. Anyways after bs with him enough he changed my whole perspective to hunting sheep and in fact life. Id been runnin around mtns pretty well killin anything that i was allowed to kill. That man had only shot one ram in over 40 years. Beauty sheep; he told me one day up high that if he could let the thing go and chase him all over again that would be a dream. He also showed me a thing about integrity and respect of nature. The difference between hunting and killing. I never saw him again but tell ya he was a gift in my life. Ya know even in the off season him and wife Sunny would travel the world to track dinosaur tracks; how cool is that. Well this year is my 32 year hunting BHs and i havent squeezed as im still lookin for the ONE. Seen lots of legal rams hunting and seen some that i would kaboodle in a instant if i could run into them during open season. Every year now i get juiced up even more and im already making plans for a new hike this year. Thanks Bobby

Some of the best bighorns in Alberta came out of his camp! Very nice people. They used to have a trailer that they stayed in when not out in the bush at a trail riding camp I worked for. Picked old Bobby's brain on sheep hunting on many an occasion!
Have to credit many things that I learned about hunting that area to that man.
SG

[The Hermit]

Was elk hunting once on a leh a bunch of years ago and ran into a old guide. Bobby Turner; he was over 70 at the time and had a camp set up at 7000 ft. He invited over for dinner the next day. When i arrived his wife was with him and they cooked me a turkey dinner. No shit; turkey dinner at 7000ft. Think he had it for a US dude that didnt show up and it would have been right around their Thanksgiving. Anyway; i ended up staying 3 nights. He'd been hunting his turf since the 30s. He was just a bonehonest simple super dude. Anyways after bs with him enough he changed my whole perspective to hunting sheep and in fact life. Id been runnin around mtns pretty well killin anything that i was allowed to kill. That man had only shot one ram in over 40 years. Beauty sheep; he told me one day up high that if he could let the thing go and chase him all over again that would be a dream. He also showed me a thing about integrity and respect of nature. The difference between hunting and killing. I never saw him again but tell ya he was a gift in my life. Ya know even in the off season him and wife Sunny would travel the world to track dinosaur tracks; how cool is that. Well this year is my 32 year hunting BHs and i havent squeezed as im still lookin for the ONE. Seen lots of legal rams hunting and seen some that i would kaboodle in a instant if i could run into them during open season. Every year now i get juiced up even more and im already making plans for a new hike this year. Thanks Bobby

Sounds like Mr Turner was a real gem, and that you are too... 32 years without a kill! Tipping my hat to you!

[dutchie]

Sure do. Talked with both of them and their clients after we made our kills.

Was interesting to see the one packing a 44 on his hip. He was quite proud of it. I guess laws don't apply to some people.

Well in the real world there are people that break the law...

Did you report him? If you know for a fact that he was breaking a law... best thing is to report them to the police because that makes all legal firearms owners look bad.

Dutchie

[M.Dean]

Well in the real world there are people that break the law...

Did you report him? If you know for a fact that he was breaking a law... best thing is to report them to the police because that makes all legal firearms owners look bad.

Dutchie Just a thought, but why report the guy? Maybe he's got a Permit, maybe he hikes into real thick brush tracking wounded animals and likes using that gun? If the guy with the Pistol hasn't bothered you or threaten you, I'd leave him be! Why start trouble? I've seen the odd hunter with a Side Arm, unless he's doing some thing life threatening with the Pistol, I don't care! I think it should be Legal for Guides to Pack Side Arms, there in on a lot more kills than the average hunter, and there the ones that have to belly crawl into the thickets looking for a pissed off wounded bear! I'd sooner see a responsible gun owner with a Pistol on his side than some punk in a hoody with a 9mm Glock stuffed in his pants! But, it's Illegal to carry a side arm in Canada, so don't do it!!!

[elkdom]

Just a thought, but why report the guy? Maybe he's got a Permit, maybe he hikes into real thick brush tracking wounded animals and likes using that gun? If the guy with the Pistol hasn't bothered you or threaten you, I'd leave him be! Why start trouble? I've seen the odd hunter with a Side Arm, unless he's doing some thing life threatening with the Pistol, I don't care! I think it should be Legal for Guides to Pack Side Arms, there in on a lot more kills than the average hunter, and there the ones that have to belly crawl into the thickets looking for a pissed off wounded bear! I'd sooner see a responsible gun owner with a Pistol on his side than some punk in a hoody with a 9mm Glock stuffed in his pants! But, it's Illegal to carry a side arm in Canada, so don't do it!!!
you must consider "the crack'd-out-punk-in-a-hoody with a 9mm Glock stuffed in his pants" seldom bumps into a envious Resident-Hunter type, who may then report him for having a sidearm!:?

[dutchie]

Just a thought, but why report the guy? Maybe he's got a Permit, maybe he hikes into real thick brush tracking wounded animals and likes using that gun? If the guy with the Pistol hasn't bothered you or threaten you, I'd leave him be! Why start trouble? I've seen the odd hunter with a Side Arm, unless he's doing some thing life threatening with the Pistol, I don't care! I think it should be Legal for Guides to Pack Side Arms, there in on a lot more kills than the average hunter, and there the ones that have to belly crawl into the thickets looking for a pissed off wounded bear! I'd sooner see a responsible gun owner with a Pistol on his side than some punk in a hoody with a 9mm Glock stuffed in his pants! But, it's Illegal to carry a side arm in Canada, so don't do it!!!

For sure, I understand what you are saying. I also agree with you but when FD calls a guy out saying the law don't apply to him, I am wondering why he would let someone intentionally break the law and walk away, then post about it on the internet while whining about it.

Fisher-Dude is very opinionated when it comes to guides, and G/O's and he is trying to gain leverage against guides for no reason what so ever. So when he says somthing like the below quote, he is just trying to hack a guide down at the knees for no reason. FD is a very smart person, and I am not sure if he has taken any NLP courses but messages like these would be a good example of NLP... It is him trying to gain strength from the sheep in our society.

"Was interesting to see the one packing a 44 on his hip. He was quite proud of it. I guess laws don't apply to some people."

Maybe he has his WATC, maybe he doesn't..... but for me it gets irritating when he is a very outspoken part of BCWF and the constant bitching and attacking from all the BCWF and GOABC guys in the open forums and in public makes us all look like ass-hats. The average person does not know the difference between the G/O's and resident hunters...we are all hunters and people just see whining and negativity.

Dutchie

[jml11]

I worked on a Stone's Sheep project in the Besa-prophet area which was a part of a larger landscape level predator-prey study taking place over a few years. The project involved collaring grizzlies, wolves, moose, caribou and sheep along with the follow-up behavioural observations and radio/GPS tracking of the animals, mostly done by air.

The outfitter in the area was very involved providing his main camp to the students and professors working on the project, flying us to and from spike camps, providing us with 9 horses and all the rigging, wall tents, and we even stayed on his farm for a few days before and after our stints in the mountains. Most of the radio tracking was done using his super cub, which involved twice daily flights over his territory. Sure there were some benefits for him, being able to get all his scouting done prior to the season while being paid...and he was nice enough top give us a bunch of green horses that we could break for him to use later that year :roll:.

An outfitter to the north (now retired) also helped out during a mineral lick study, providing his camps and river boat to the students.

[BCrams]

...and he was nice enough top give us a bunch of green horses that we could break for him to use later that year :roll:.



Wasn't that fun and sure a steep learning curve for myself :mrgreen:

Great outfitter to have spent time with.

[GoatGuy]

I worked on a Stone's Sheep project in the Besa-prophet area which was a part of a larger landscape level predator-prey study taking place over a few years. The project involved collaring grizzlies, wolves, moose, caribou and sheep along with the follow-up behavioural observations and radio/GPS tracking of the animals, mostly done by air.

The outfitter in the area was very involved providing his main camp to the students and professors working on the project, flying us to and from spike camps, providing us with 9 horses and all the rigging, wall tents, and we even stayed on his farm for a few days before and after our stints in the mountains. Most of the radio tracking was done using his super cub, which involved twice daily flights over his territory. Sure there were some benefits for him, being able to get all his scouting done prior to the season while being paid...and he was nice enough top give us a bunch of green horses that we could break for him to use later that year :roll:.

An outfitter to the north (now retired) also helped out during a mineral lick study, providing his camps and river boat to the students.

hahahah, heard it was a bit of a rodeo.

[jml11]

hahahah, heard it was a bit of a rodeo.

Maybe during BCrams stint....mine was clean :wink:...I have busted camera lens' to prove it!! And no, someone was not flown out to the emergency room via Heli after a horse got away on her...despite what you may have heard.

[GoatGuy]

Maybe during BCrams stint....mine was clean :wink:...I have busted camera lens' to prove it!! And no, someone was not flown out to the emergency room via Heli after a horse got away on her...despite what you may have heard.

What was the horse's name?

Heard it was a serious wingnut.

[BCrams]

What was the horse's name?

Heard it was a serious wingnut.

Judy was the horse that gave me the most trouble. She didn't like me and I didn't like her right from day one when the fellow you know told me to get on her bareback and we hadn't even left the ranch yet.

In due time, she was probably one of the better ones as she was big and powerful and sure could climb etc ....

Wasn't my favorite riding horse that summer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/BCrams/judy.jpg

[jml11]

What was the horse's name?

Heard it was a serious wingnut.

The horse that caused the injury was a great saddle horse as long you showed him early on who was boss. He would always test you and if you didn't know how to control him he would get away and would purposely run close the trees to rub you out or knock you off...that's how the injury happened. I had some of my best rides on Gilligan, no quit attitude even on steep climbs.

One other horse, that didn't belong to outfitter, proved to be a significant problem, threw me a couple times and would gather up the group and take off, even double hobbled...AW and I almost shot that horse a couple of times...good thing he wasn't the outfitters horse, couldn't imagine having clients deal with him....named Chico...which fit well with his crap attitude...

[jml11]

Judy was the horse that gave me the most trouble. She didn't like me and I didn't like her right from day one when the fellow you know told me to get on her bareback and we hadn't even left the ranch yet.

In due time, she was probably one of the better ones as she was big and powerful and sure could climb etc ....

Wasn't my favorite riding horse that summer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/BCrams/judy.jpg

We didn't use her, but I did have to trim the hooves of that big broad!!

[GoatGuy]

The horse that caused the injury was a great saddle horse as long you showed him early on who was boss. He would always test you and if you didn't know how to control him he would get away and would purposely run close the trees to rub you out or knock you off...that's how the injury happened. I had some of my best rides on Gilligan, no quit attitude even on steep climbs.

One other horse, that didn't belong to outfitter, proved to be a significant problem, threw me a couple times and would gather up the group and take off, even double hobbled...AW and I almost shot that horse a couple of times...good thing he wasn't the outfitters horse, couldn't imagine having clients deal with him....named Chico...which fit well with his crap attitude...
Buddy said that horse that dumped the girl looked like it was ready to explode all the time. Funny, buddies kid is working for him wrangling now on the 6 side. Haven't bumped into him yet this winter but I'm sure he'll have some stories.

[jml11]

Buddy said that horse that dumped the girl looked like it was ready to explode all the time. Funny, buddies kid is working for him wrangling now on the 6 side. Haven't bumped into him yet this winter but I'm sure he'll have some stories.

Yeah that horse always wanted to go, often at a run too, which made hime a good horse to cover ground with but a bad horse for clients. You defnitely had to 'drive' him and not just 'ride'.

[GoatGuy]

Judy was the horse that gave me the most trouble. She didn't like me and I didn't like her right from day one when the fellow you know told me to get on her bareback and we hadn't even left the ranch yet.

In due time, she was probably one of the better ones as she was big and powerful and sure could climb etc ....

Wasn't my favorite riding horse that summer.



Hahaha, too funny. Always lots of horse stories with that guy. You gotta think, if he's trying to volunteer me for a job it might be because he doesn't want it. :wink::mrgreen:

You should see the wingnut indian horse he was riding last fall. Thing looks like it's ready to crawl right out of its skin half the time. Night blind, walks at a hundred miles an hour and usually has one half of its mind on the panic button. Eyes just about come out of its head if it sees something dead.

You can guess what my response is when he says we should swap riding horses. Usually starts with a four letter word.

[GoatGuy]

Yeah that horse always wanted to go, often at a run too, which made hime a good horse to cover ground with but a bad horse for clients. You defnitely had to 'drive' him and not just 'ride'.
Sounds like a good bait pile.

[BCrams]

Hahaha, too funny. Always lots of horse stories with that guy. You gotta think, if he's trying to volunteer me for a job it might be because he doesn't want it. :wink::mrgreen:

You should see the wingnut indian horse he was riding last fall. Thing looks like it's ready to crawl right out of its skin half the time. Night blind, walks at a hundred miles an hour and usually has one half of its mind on the panic button. Eyes just about come out of its head if it sees something dead.

Hilarious! I can just picture it.

Good point! He never did ride Judy once from what I remember. The horse he picked (Texas) turned out to be my favorite after he left. Always cheery whereas Judy would always glare at me with ears layed back. Go figure :-D

[GoatGuy]

Hilarious! I can just picture it.

Good point! He never did ride Judy once from what I remember. The horse he picked (Texas) turned out to be my favorite after he left. Always cheery whereas Judy would always glare at me with ears layed back. Go figure :-D

He's no dummy. :mrgreen:

[Hunt'n Guide]

Horses that are problems get to be pack horses, not saddle horses. The more of a pain the horse the more work they get. Usually solves any trouble that comes up for me. Those continually spooky horses are way better when they just need to follow the leader, less mental strain on them as they can rely on the leader to pick the trail and watch for wolves etc. Never forget, the guide rides the best horse available on any given day.

[willy442]

Horses that are problems get to be pack horses, not saddle horses. The more of a pain the horse the more work they get. Usually solves any trouble that comes up for me. Those continually spooky horses are way better when they just need to follow the leader, less mental strain on them as they can rely on the leader to pick the trail and watch for wolves etc. Never forget, the guide rides the best horse available on any given day.

I second that. Being smarter than the horse helps alot too.:)

[Hunt'n Guide]

If you are using an outfitters horses preseason they are going to be a handful. Nobody has bothered them in 9 or 10 months and they forget who is supposed to be the boss.

Stupid horses make great cilent horses. All they want to do is follow the leader. Nothing is funnier than having a guy who wants to "freelance" instead of following the guide on a hunt when his horse "won't go" where he wants it to. :wink:

[Whisky Creek]

Local Guide Outfitter let me use his Percheron stud for the past two years on my mares and wouldn't take nothing for it. I crossed that stud with two of my quarterhorse mares, in order to get a little heavier bone in my huntin-horse string. Got two colts this spring out of them and hope to get two more this spring. It would be a pretty darn nice mountain string in another 4 years if I could end up getting 4 gelded, half Percheron, brothers from this pairing. Hell, if those two foals end up being colts again this spring, I think I might even breed the mares back to that stud again and see how far my luck runs.

Willy and Huntnguide,
Like you were saying, it usually makes for an amicable situation if the rider is smarter than the horse. The outfitter horses generally get a lot of "non-riders" thrown on them and it takes about two seconds for the horse to figure that out. Once the horses have determined that, the rider is generally quick to assume that the horse is no good and won't do what he wants him to. :wink: Afterall, you can't bullshit a horse!

[horshur]

God was not generous when he was handing out brains and creating horses at the same time.....really!

[Jelvis]

The guide outfitters I saw and read in Magz when I was a young hunter coming up, gave me a sense of wander and adventure and western pride which I can remember today, so the dream lives on, thanks to those tuff, leather faced wranglers and guides. Don't be dissin my memory hero's .. real men and women with grit
Jel ( Big Game Guides ) Horse trains and hot coffee over a camp fire, grizzly's and sheep, basins and rocky mtns

[stoneguide]

Willy and Huntnguide,
Like you were saying, it usually makes for an amicable situation if the rider is smarter than the horse. The outfitter horses generally get a lot of "non-riders" thrown on them and it takes about two seconds for the horse to figure that out. Once the horses have determined that, the rider is generally quick to assume that the horse is no good and won't do what he wants him to. :wink: Afterall, you can't bullshit a horse!

I was always told a horse is a way better judge of peoples character than the person trying to ride him is of judging horses. Looks like the above mentioned horses had it figured out who was running the show!
SG

[Lillypuff]

Paid me to guide for moose when I had never called one in and dropped us off at a lake that had very few moose around, used the fishing camps wall tents, boats and all their kitchen supplies. The owners of all the equipment flew in and were not very impressed that we were using all of there gear. The same outfitter shot a moose in the wrong region and bragged about it.
The others that I have met have all been great though

[M.Dean]

The guide outfitters I saw and read in Magz when I was a young hunter coming up, gave me a sense of wander and adventure and western pride which I can remember today, so the dream lives on, thanks to those tuff, leather faced wranglers and guides. Don't be dissin my memory hero's .. real men and women with grit
Jel ( Big Game Guides ) Horse trains and hot coffee over a camp fire, grizzly's and sheep, basins and rocky mtns This reminds me of a story, not much to do with this thread, but! I was camped at the Hay Sheds years back,at the Empire Valley. I got up at 4:am, had coffee going, not many other guys awake yet, but I was in bed by 10 so with ear plugs in for the music and yelling, it was easy to get up early! There was a truck parked a few yards away, real nice rig, Dually Ford all decked out,there was a Ranches name on the side, I think they were from Fort Nelson way, and there was 2 old timers in it. I sat and drank coffee watching them get the fire going and one old fella pulled a old box out of the back of the truck, looked like that box had been around for 50 years! He took out his coffee pot, a frying pan and 2 cups. The fire started to go, they placed the pot on the fire and sat back on the ground. I could hear them talking of the Olde Days! I sat and listened for a few minutes, then I thought, I wonder what they'd say? I grabbed my Coffee pot with a cloth, it was steaming hot and walked over too there fire, I said, It's going to be a bit before your Coffee's done, care for a cup of mine, my buddy's will sleep till noon after the party last nite! The old guys got up, shook my hand, called me by name, and said, What we heard about you must be true! I asked where in hell they heard about me??? The one guy said, we got here last nite about 11:00, your buddy's had a drink for us and we B.S.ed with them for a couple hours, all real nice guys! They told us, if your up real early, we'll guarantee you Moldy's going to be up, Coffee will be going, and some thing will be sizzl'in in his fryin Pan! We talked through another cup of Java, they were Old Ranchers and Guides in there Day, I still think about that Old Grub Box they had, I bet if it could talk, we could sit and listen to it for two days!

[jonz]

Some guide outfitters helped me out last season, they gave me an emergency tow in the bush. My vehicle and tent trailer were stuck on a steep hill in the upper Elk River valley. Much appreciated.

[M.Dean]

I think 98% of Guide Outfitters are real decent guys! Yes, you'll get the odd one that gets pissed at the general public for screwing up a hunt, but it's no different than if your on your Job Site making good money and some dick comes along and sets you back 2 days!!! I remember a Story, I wasn't there, so it's simply a sad tale, but a few friends of mine were on a horse back sheep hunt, as they were getting ready to ride out, they met a young fella, he was Elk hunting in the same area. He told my buddy's, Beware of the Outfitter, he's a real A-hole! He said he had a run in with him and the guy wanted him to pack up and get out! The young guy had seen a big bull across the river, so that afternoon he called it across the river and shot it! My buddy's in the mean time were way up a mountain where they had glassed some sheep. They tied up the horses and were half way up to the sheep when out of the sky came a Airplane! It buzzed them and the sheep a few times and left!!! My friends are Pissed! Back to camp they ride, and who do they meet but the Kid, he's beaten all too Hell! They asked What the Christ Happen to you? He replied, I was working on the Elk, when in comes the Outfitter with one of his riders, he started screaming and yelling that he had a Client coming in tomorrow and that was the bull they had picked out for him! Then they kicked the shit out of him!!! Now, I don't know how much truth there is to this tale, or even if it's true, but I heard a while later the Outfitter died when he crashed his plane! I think quite a few guys will remember this fella, I hunted in the same area lots, and never did run into him. We met up with one of the Guides one time, he was out feeding the horses, and he was super nice, a old guy, he pointed us to where the Moose were and the Elk, hell of a nice guy!!!

[Tikatack]

Actually there are legal ways for a person to carry an unconcealled weapon or pistol if you go through the proper channels. The easiest is with a miners permit for your info.:)

Before you accuse people please know what you're talking about.

This is a little behind the conversation but this comment needs to be qualified. If you're in the woods with a miners permit and guiding or hunting and carrying for protection, you're not mining or prospecting or exploring. period. You are trying to make swiss cheese out of cheddar. It won't work under the letter of the law, which you are purporting

[willy442]

This is a little behind the conversation but this comment needs to be qualified. If you're in the woods with a miners permit and guiding or hunting and carrying for protection, you're not mining or prospecting or exploring. period. You are trying to make swiss cheese out of cheddar. It won't work under the letter of the law, which you are purporting

Did I say anything about hunting with that permit? What I said was there are legal ways for a person to pack a pistol most permits are very hard to aquire. The prospectors permit is the easiest one to get. If someone wants to get one, pack a pistol for the reason of hunting. Then yes I think he should be reported to the authorities. Read the the damn post before you get your shit in a knot.

[Snowpatrol]

This is a little behind the conversation but this comment needs to be qualified. If you're in the woods with a miners permit and guiding or hunting and carrying for protection, you're not mining or prospecting or exploring. period. You are trying to make swiss cheese out of cheddar. It won't work under the letter of the law, which you are purporting

AGAIN !!! YOU can get a occupational permit to carry for defense.... if you're a guide, timber cruiser, miner, etc !!! Its a permit to protect yourself and others around you while you are working ! Has nothing to do with hunting with a pistol !!!!!!!! It was the guide that was carrying NOT THE HUNTER !

[Sitkaspruce]

I have worked for a guide for 11 years now, great way to spend some of my holidays and get paid for it, kind of like double dipping........:-D

The GO's I have run into have been, for the most part, great. Ross Peck was a guy who I could sit around and listen for hours, same as his son. We met them on the trail by Tuchodi Lakes one time and spent a few hours BS'ing while their clients "Peeled" themselves of their horses, they shared some of their ideas for around the lakes and told us of a few spots where they could not get horses into. Chatted with him a few times at BCWF conventions as well.

Another was the guys around Netson lake. We shot a moose first morning and they came down to "Check" it out (first year of tri palm rule), once they saw the we knew what we were doing, they jumped in and helped us load the moose into their 14' boat and take it back to our camp...a few shots of rum later we had the lake to ourselves and they would go chase caribou. A few days later one of our group got sick and they called in a plane for us, then a few days after that we came back to camp and there was fresh bread and buns left there with a note. When we left we left a tote with all our tarps and can goods for them to use.

The one bad experience was with a GO who wanted a gate placed at the head of a road to help protect the elk herd at the back end (17 k away). He had the MOE and others on his side and was getting the gate put in place when we found a "Trail" that was freshly cut from one of the back blocks. We followed it to where it came out.....his own lodge. The end was a gate was NOT put up and he was charged and fined for building an illegal "Trail"......He was been pi$$ed at me since.

My respect has been for mostly the guides who do most of the work and is reserved for the outfitters, who can be a PITA when it comes to resident rights.

There is good and bad in every group, so take then in stride and deal with them on an individual basis.

Cheers

SS

[Mountain Man]

Been guiding a fews years now and will continue to this year as well.

Worked for the good the bad.

My thoughts are simple.

There are a lot more unlawful and unethical residents then there are GO'S

[Gateholio]

Been guiding a fews years now and will continue to this year as well.

Worked for the good the bad.

My thoughts are simple.

There are a lot more unlawful and unethical residents then there are GO'S

Considering that there are 90 000 resident hunters in BC and only a few hundred outfitters, I think that there woudl be more unlawful and unethical residents.

Probably more resident hunters drive trucks and drink coffee too.:tongue:

[stoneguide]

Considering that there are 90 000 resident hunters in BC and only a few hundred outfitters, I think that there woudl be more unlawful and unethical residents.

Probably more resident hunters drive trucks and drink coffee too.:tongue:

What Gatehouse, no theory with a bunch of numbers? Im sure percentage wise the number of unlawful residents to G/O compared to the totals of each will be higher, but im betting you will come up with some chart or graph on why your the man and others are wrong. LOL
Im gunna go with Mountain man on this one for both BC and Alberta.
SG

[Gateholio]

What Gatehouse, no theory with a bunch of numbers? Im sure percentage wise the number of unlawful residents to G/O compared to the totals of each will be higher, but im betting you will come up with some chart or graph on why your the man and others are wrong. LOL
Im gunna go with Mountain man on this one for both BC and Alberta.
SG

No charts or percentages or studies done that I know of, so it's just as likely that there are more unlawful G/O's from a percentage standpoint.

Any theories are just guesses.

[stoneguide]

No charts or percentages or studies done that I know of, so it's just as likely that there are more unlawful G/O's from a percentage standpoint.

Any theories are just guesses.

Hmmm yep could go either way. But my guess is that this one wouldnt be in your favor!
SG

[dana]

From a percentage point of view, out of the low number of GO's we have in this province, there certainly are a lot that have past wildlife offenses. Maybe the CO's are harder on them than on residents eh? Actually, I know they are, and for just reasons.

[SHAKER]

Yaaahhhn..... Isn't their anything better then how great the GO's of our province are?

[Gateholio]

From a percentage point of view, out of the low number of GO's we have in this province, there certainly are a lot that have past wildlife offenses. .

Good point. If even 20 outfitters had wildlife offenses that is a pretty large percentage given the total number of outfitters in BC.:???:

[elkdom]

there are many former GO's and former Ass't Licenced BC hunting guides on this forum,,many,,many who say very little at all,,
and many of these have first hands on dealing with unscrupulous/unethical GO principal operators,,,,,,

the fact there hasnt been numerous harsh responses to this thread is because there is a OLD saying, goes like this,,


" IF YOU CANT SAY SOMETHING NICE ?,,DONT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL ! :-|


and that is exactly what the OP of this thread requested!,,,,,,,,,,,,

[stoneguide]

there are many former GO's and former Ass't Licenced BC hunting guides on this forum,,many,,many who say very little at all,,
and many of these have first hands on dealing with unscrupulous/unethical GO principal operators,,,,,,

the fact there hasnt been numerous harsh responses to this thread is because there is a OLD saying, goes like this,,


" IF YOU CANT SAY SOMETHING NICE ?,,DONT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL ! :-|


and that is exactly what the OP of this thread requested!,,,,,,,,,,,,

The big problem with the peoples personal opinion of G/O's is that a large percentage of them arent personal opinions. Many guys have heard some story that a buddies buddy had an issue with a guide or an outfitter. They then make their personal opinion on that information.
Many guys have no clue when they even see a guide in the bush, as is indecated by the amount of guides some see in particular areas. And just because a G/O's former employee has a bad dealing doesnt always reflect on a bad G/O.
If all the opinions were from people that actually had dealings with a G/O then it would be in fact a good thread to open the wrong doings of G/O's. But untill people have an unbiased opinion there will never be any resolve in this issue.
How many guys alone on this site and these threads see some negative remarks and form their opinion then pass that onto the next guy. Then all of a sudden you have 20 personal opinions about one guys experience that may or may not be true.

So you guys keep thinking that the personal opinions posted are all fact and the rest of us will beleive our personal experiences and not pass judgment because of what someone else says or wants you to beleive.
SG

[dana]

And just because a G/O's former employee has a bad dealing doesnt always reflect on a bad G/O.
SG

I still can remember glassin' a series of avalanche chutes for grizzly and I turned the radio on in my truck to see if I could hear some news. Found CBC just as the news was starting. Top news stories was concerning the outfitter I had worked for and how he was being charged for poaching mountain goats in a closed area. I laughed my ass off. That was a great day. :)

[elkdom]

I still can remember glassin' a series of avalanche chutes for grizzly and I turned the radio on in my truck to see if I could hear some news. Found CBC just as the news was starting. Top news stories was concerning the outfitter I had worked for and how he was being charged for poaching mountain goats in a closed area. I laughed my ass off. That was a great day. :)

if the MOD's Willing ????it would be interesting to see just how embarrassing and how deep the pain would run????
if GO Wildlife OFFENSES and FINES/PENALTIES/LOSS of LICENSES and TENURE and Surnames and Outfit/Company names were divulged, made public,,,????

those great words "The TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE",,,,hmmmm
somehow I do think there will NOT be a dry eye in house, whether it be from CRYING or from LAUGHING!:-|

[GoatGuy]

Been guiding a fews years now and will continue to this year as well.

Worked for the good the bad.

My thoughts are simple.

There are a lot more unlawful and unethical residents then there are GO'S

You know a few residents that shot an animal they didn't have a tag for and got caught trying to sneak it across the border? :confused: :mrgreen:

[Gateholio]

if the MOD's Willing ????it would be interesting to see just how embarrassing and how deep the pain would run????
if GO Wildlife OFFENSES and FINES/PENALTIES/LOSS of LICENSES and TENURE and Surnames and Outfit/Company names were divulged, made public,,,????

those great words "The TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE",,,,hmmmm
somehow I do think there will NOT be a dry eye in house, whether it be from CRYING or from LAUGHING!:-|

Court decisions are public information and would be allowed.

Unsubstantiated rumors are just that and would not be allowed.

[BlacktailStalker]

Court stuff is available online, for free :)

[elkdom]

Court decisions are public information and would be allowed.

Unsubstantiated rumors are just that and would not be allowed.


yes Court decisions are public information, not slanderous to tell the truth!:wink:

[Island Redneck]

There are Lawyers, cops, Doctors and people from all walks of life, even Game Bio.'s that break the laws, GO.'s are no different some of them break the laws to, but for the most part GO.'s are just like all other people, some break the law but most dont.

IMO. why most hunters think GO.'s are crooks is because the BCWF. is constantly saying they are underhanded and breaking laws for their rich, fat assed Yanks and are taking game that belongs to residents. For the last 25 yr.'s the BCWF. has been portraying as being dishonest.

[elkdom]

There are Lawyers, cops, Doctors and people from all walks of life, even Game Bio.'s that break the laws, GO.'s are no different some of them break the laws to, but for the most part GO.'s are just like all other people, some break the law but most dont.

IMO. why most hunters think GO.'s are crooks is because the BCWF. is constantly saying they are underhanded and breaking laws for their rich, fat assed Yanks and are taking game that belongs to residents. For the last 25 yr.'s the BCWF. has been portraying as being dishonest.

a VERY large number of BC GO's are "fat a$$$ed YANKS and fat a$$$ed Europeans", the only interest in being a GO for them, is the $$$$$ !

[willy442]

Guy's theres 2 kinds of G/O's. Those that get into the business, thinkiing like many on here about how lucrative and great a business it is. Especially with the fact that tags are given to them to sell on quota animals.
This kind of outfitter is usually behind the eight ball on operating capital 12 months of the year. These guy's often have to take other employment just to survive themselves. Usually fails to meet his obligations to Hunters, Crew and anyone else involved. Leaves bad blood throughout the hunting world.

Then you have the otherside of the spectrum. Those that are in it for the long haul as a family business. Usually they hold certificates on the more lucrative areas, becuase it don't take very long to realize that's where you need to be in order to feed your family, soley from the business. These guy's pay thier crews, spend money locally and usually get along reasonably well with those they run across in the bush. They fully realize we are all hunters.

Then we have the kind I am not in favor of which are the hunt clubs and area's with people managing for outside owners. These are the ones that I believe cause the greatest deal of problems, due to the fact they really don't have any personnal investment. They are blinded by the fact they must succeed in killing because they believe they sell animals. Thier thinking needs to swing 180 degrees to understand game farms sell animals, outfitters sell a service to get you there hunting, much the same as a heli sking company sells you a lift up the mountain and leader to bring you down.

With our resident hunters we also have basically two types. The first being the people that plan thier trip arrange for the time off and go out into the mountains to enjoy the surroundings. Hunt what animals they are after, leave the bush exactly as it was when they went in. Come out with or without thier animal having enjoyed a wilderness experience and look forward to the coming year. This type is very often found as being involved with the local rod and gun clubs and they hold memberships to some of the bigger hunting organizations in North America. Very often these hunters don't last very long in local clubs because of the 2nd type of hunter.

The second type of resident hunter is the fellow who loads up his jerry rigged camper onto some home made set of wheels so he can haul it along with as much alcohol, gas, propane, and other garbage as he possibly can. Then drives North, stops and sets up camp in the middle of the road blocking anyone else's access. Rides around hunting from a pick up or quad having no consideration for man or beast. Leaves bottles and garbage behind when he leaves and goes home singing another somebody done me wrong song. This same type is usually the ones that have had no real experience on dealing with a guide. In the course of feeling sorry for themselves they, relay every negative story they've dreamt up around thier camp fire built out of wood someone else left and direct to guiding. This kind of hunter is very common among us and more so on this site than anywhere.

Hope every one don't take this as a personal attack because it's not meant to be. Just an honest opinion and everyone can fit themselves in where they see fit.

[willy442]

There are Lawyers, cops, Doctors and people from all walks of life, even Game Bio.'s that break the laws, GO.'s are no different some of them break the laws to, but for the most part GO.'s are just like all other people, some break the law but most dont.



IMO. why most hunters think GO.'s are crooks is because the BCWF. is constantly saying they are underhanded and breaking laws for their rich, fat assed Yanks and are taking game that belongs to residents. For the last 25 yr.'s the BCWF. has been portraying as being dishonest.


If people only knew how much truth there is in that statement.:-D

[dana]

Dzaman, Wayne Kamloops


Wildlife Ac t 26(1)(c)



82(1)(c)

3 year hunting licence suspension

beyond his 2 year automatic +
completion of CORE program
Hunt wildlife not within the open season;
Making a false statement






(court fine of $5750)

[dana]

Dzaman, Dwayne Kamloops Wildlife Ac t 26(1)(c)
33(2)
3 year hunting licence suspension
+ completion of CORE program
Hunt wildlife not within the open season;
Unlawful possession of dead wildlife
(court fine of $2300)

[GoatGuy]

Park, Bradley (dba:
Calamity Creek Guide
Outfitters)
Rossland Wildlife Act 190/84
340/82
16(2.1)
16.01(i);
21(1)(b);
33(2);
37;
55(2)(b);
69;
$115
$115
$345
$230
$115
$230
$575
Takes or kills a grizzly bear, a mountain goat or a
mountain sheep without submitting parts as required;
Fail to comply with condition of guide-outfitter licence;
Export wildlife or parts or egg without permit;
Unlawful possession of dead wildlife;
Transport wildlife in province contrary to regulations;
Guide fails to deliver report;
Fail to pay guide royalty

[Fisher-Dude]

Marika and Michael Ramousch were convicted in court for illegal activities related to their Guide Outfitting operation (Rocky
Mountain Adventures) and fined $1,495 with an additional creative sentence of $8,700 payable to the Habitat Conservation Trust
Foundation. The judge also suspended Michael Ramouschs' Guide and Assistant Guide licences.
Outside of the Court process, the Ramousch's also received two separate administrative sanctions issued under authority of the

Wildlife Act . Michael Ramousch received an automatic two year suspension of his hunting licence, while Marika Ramousch faced
a three month suspension of her Guide Outfitter licence (during the 2009 spring bear hunt).

[Gunner]

Park, Bradley (dba:
Calamity Creek Guide
Outfitters)
Rossland Wildlife Act 190/84
340/82
16(2.1)
16.01(i);
21(1)(b);
33(2);
37;
55(2)(b);
69;
$115
$115
$345
$230
$115
$230
$575
Takes or kills a grizzly bear, a mountain goat or a
mountain sheep without submitting parts as required;
Fail to comply with condition of guide-outfitter licence;
Export wildlife or parts or egg without permit;
Unlawful possession of dead wildlife;
Transport wildlife in province contrary to regulations;
Guide fails to deliver report;
Fail to pay guide royaltyThat's just the start of a long list.You can throw Bryan Martin's name in to the mix. Gunner

[elkdom]

Dzaman, Wayne Kamloops


Wildlife Ac t 26(1)(c)




82(1)(c)

3 year hunting licence suspension

beyond his 2 year automatic +
completion of CORE program
Hunt wildlife not within the open season;
Making a false statement




(court fine of $5750)




Dzaman, Dwayne Kamloops Wildlife Ac t 26(1)(c)
33(2)
3 year hunting licence suspension
+ completion of CORE program
Hunt wildlife not within the open season;
Unlawful possession of dead wildlife
(court fine of $2300)



you just dont understand, He was abused as a child, add to that his "mentor possibly was a resident hunter" its not his fault!
(insert, tears, laughing):mrgreen:

[dana]

Wayne Dzaman was the GO for Adams Lake Outfitting. Dwayne is his son and his only guide at the time of their offenses.

[Gunner]

If people only knew how much truth there is in that statement.:-DBeing that you both were in the "industry" I would expect no less.Examples or are you just into libel tonight? Gunner

[stoneguide]

So what are you guys saying?

No one said they didnt do illegal activities! Your wasting everyones time and forum space. Do you want it flooded with resident convictions? You guys are pathetic. That is exactly why so many people have false opinions. Because guys like you show one sided facts.

Yep you guys are real heros LOL

SG

[Fisher-Dude]

Horvath, John East Kootenay/Wigwam River Wildlife Act 55(2)(b);
69
Guide fails to deliver report (3 counts);
Guide fails to deliver report (2 counts

[elkdom]

So what are you guys saying?

No one said they didnt do illegal activities! Your wasting everyones time and forum space. Do you want it flooded with resident convictions? You guys are pathetic. That is exactly why so many people have false opinions. Because guys like you show one sided facts.

Yep you guys are real heros LOL

SG


you sound a bit like OJ Simpson's Lawyer !

[dana]

How is it we show one sided facts? You think I'm just a disgrunted former employee? I personally know a ton of former guides that all have the same stories about their former employers. Do ya think it is some kind of conspiracy against the outfitters? The xguides will be the downfall of the outfitters. LMAO!
Stoneguide, the longer you stay in the industry, the more you will see that will turn your stomach. It will happen to ya. You will become jaded just like the vast majority of x-guides in this province. It might not be now, but it will indeed happen.

[Fisher-Dude]

Martin, Bryan Mackenzie/Johiha Lake Wildlife Act 82(1)(c) $5,000 Make false statement/info in book, record, report, etc.
($4,900 to HCTF)

[Fisher-Dude]

Greenlee, Mark Mackenzie/Johiha Lake Wildlife Act 47(b)(i);
82(1)(c)
$3,750 Non-resident hunts big game without guide;
Make false statement/info in book, record, report, etc.
($3,550 to Habitat Conservation Trust Foundation)

[Fisher-Dude]

Lancaster, Bart Hazelton Wildlife Act 190/84 17(1)(m)(ii) (a) Suspension of Assistant Guide licence for the period 01/01/2008 -
06/30/2008 and 01/01/2009 - 06/30/2009.
(b) For same periods outlined above, Lancaster will not be permitted
to accompany clients on hunts under his Guide Outfitter licence (an
Assistant Guide will be required to handle any physical Guiding
activities under Lancaster's Guide Outfitter licence).
(c) During the periods 07/01/2008 - 12/31/2008 and 07/01/2009 -
12/31/2009, Lancaster must not act as a Guide or Assistant Guide
Outfitter for the purpose of hunting bear, or accompany a hunter that
holds an un-cancelled species licence for bear.
It is an offence to hunt bear by placing bait or by
using a dead animal as bait. Bart Lancaster holds
both a Guide Outfitter and an Assistant Guide
Outfitter licence.
While acting as an Assistant Guide in the Skeena
Region, Lancaster led a client to a location to shoot a
male Grizzly bear by using a dead animal as bait.
The client did not have knowledge of Lancaster's use
of bait to attract the wildlife, nor did the Guide
Outfitter under who's authority and licence Lancaster
was working.
This hearing was held under the authority granted to
a regional manager under section

61 of the Wildlife
Act.

[BlacktailStalker]

I thought I heard something about Bart doing that but scoffed it off as a rumour.
What a dip shit.

[Gunner]

Pretty good list(and I'm sure thats not all).There's what,200 listed G/Os in BC? Gunner

[Fisher-Dude]

Berge, Wesley
(dba: Johiah Lake
Outfitters)
Fort St John Wildlife Act 8/99
190/84
5(1);
17(1)(m)(ii);
82(1)(c)
$12,000 Hunt big game without hunting licence and species licence; hunt bear
using a dead animal or part of it as bait; makes a false statement in a
book, record, etc. kept under this Act (4 counts). $11,400 payable to
HCTF.

[stoneguide]

LOL if we had space and I had time I would post the resident that get convicted but there are thousands listed.
You guys still havent prooved anything that hasnt already been said by everyone on here.

SG

[NaStY]

I would like to thank the MOderator that reopened what is a very good thread. :-D


Me too.....

[Gunner]

LOL if we had space and I had time I would post the resident that get convicted but there are thousands listed.
You guys still havent prooved anything that hasnt already been said by everyone on here.

SGI'll bet the percentage of resident violations doesn't match the percentage of GO violations.And of course these are the same people that "have done so much for the wildlife of BC".Right.They are no better than Resident poachers,except they do it for money. Gunner

[Fisher-Dude]

I'd like to thank the BC MoE and Conservation Officer Service for publishing the names of ALL those convicted of wildlife and environmental offences in a court of law. Part of the deterrent must come from the public shame of exposure, as the fines are often insufficient for the offence, and some just consider them a "cost of doing business."

[stoneguide]

I'll bet the percentage of resident violations doesn't match the percentage of GO violations.And of course these are the same people that "have done so much for the wildlife of BC".Right.They are no better than Resident poachers,except they do it for money. Gunner

Its possible but that is your opinion.

Oh and dont kid yourself, there are alot of resident poachers that also do it for profit!

Like I said there are bad apples on each side.

Both groups are just as bad one poacher on either side is to many. They both need to be delt with.

Using a few of them bad apples to condem the rest of that group is pretty childish also.

SG

[bayou]

What about the albertan outfitter(hunting for himself) and the sheep in canmore story.
What about the moderators on this site that have amitted to breaking game laws(not charged) or who suggest breaking game laws, are they any better then the ones you post with convictions, just because they havnt been caught yet.

[Fisher-Dude]

Last, but certainly not least:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=855413&postcount=234


:lol::lol::lol:

[NaStY]

What about the albertan outfitter(hunting for himself) and the sheep in canmore story.
What about the moderators on this site that have amitted to breaking game laws(not charged) or who suggest breaking game laws, are they any better then the ones you post with convictions, just because they havnt been caught yet.

So what about them? Where do we see any facts about what your saying?

[Sitkaspruce]

SG

One thing you seem to forget is that GO's are "Supposed" to be professionals....they are held in a higher light as they are given animals to hunt and make $$$ off of....not weekend warriors who get CORE, pick up a gun and head off in search of an animal. Not that that gives the weekend warriors an excuse, but the GO's need to be held higher and need to be a great example of stewards of the wildlife....and sadly that is not always the case. That damn almighty $$$ will always trump ethics

And I will bet your guide wages to mine that 99.9% of the GO's who were charged and convicted knew exactly what they were doing....and the 0.1% had better lawyers:wink:.

Do not be fooled by what you have experienced, if there is a $$$ to be made, sometimes ethics will go right out the window. It has been proven time and time again......and sorry no graphs, just a life time of experience in both the the GO side and the profession I am in now.

I also agree with what Willy442 said, there is two or three types who are in it for different reasons, same as there is hunters in it for different reasons. Some will be in it for the long haul or enjoyment and some will be in it for the short haul or bragging rights.

Cheers

SS

[bayou]

So what about them? Where do we see any facts about what your saying?
Its all in past threads or posts on this site and others you can find them if you like.
One example would be telling people to shoot,shovel and shut up as one moderator has done on a couple occasions, and like I also said he hasnt been charged with anything that I know of and if you need a criminal conviction to justify someones character to you, you might have to dig deeper.
Back to the original topic some outfitters have been instrumental in getting some road closures put in that where nice.

[Fisher-Dude]

Back to the original topic some outfitters have been instrumental in getting some road closures put in that where nice.

Most were road closures that were not put in for conservation purposes. Most were for GOs to have their "own little hunting grounds."

Your use of the word "nice" means, no doubt, "nice" for you as an outfitter.

[bayou]

[quote=Sitkaspruce;855466]SG

One thing you seem to forget is that GO's are "Supposed" to be professionals....they are held in a higher light as they are given animals to hunt and make $$$ off of....not weekend warriors who get CORE, pick up a gun and head off in search of an animal. Not that that gives the weekend warriors an excuse, but the GO's need to be held higher and need to be a great example of stewards of the wildlife....and sadly that is not always the case. That damn almighty $$$ will always trump ethics
Curious as to who says they are professionals or gives them this label. I see it on this and other sites where guys are calling them selves professional guides etc, where does this labeling come from themselves to make them selves sound better. When you get a guide license in B.C. does it say professional on it or is there different levels like beginner, intermideate then professional. Just curious.
I agree with how $ trumps ethics.
And I will bet your guide wages to mine that 99.9% of the GO's who were charged and convicted knew exactly what they were doing....and the 0.1% had better lawyers:wink:.
I agree with this also, but also feel that with the majority of all of those charged both GO and resident knew what they were doing.
But if they get a big lawyer and get off for some reason do you still feel they are guilty of what they did.
Do not be fooled by what you have experienced, if there is a $$$ to be made, sometimes ethics will go right out the window. It has been proven time and time again......and sorry no graphs, just a life time of experience in both the the GO side and the profession I am in now.
This is also true but with both resident and GO this is why I dont like the accompany permits it is abused by many.
I also agree with what Willy442 said, there is two or three types who are in it for different reasons, same as there is hunters in it for different reasons. Some will be in it for the long haul or enjoyment and some will be in it for the short haul or bragging rights.
Again good comment
Cheers

SS

[bayou]

Most were road closures that were not put in for conservation purposes. Most were for GOs to have their "own little hunting grounds."

Your use of the word "nice" means, no doubt, "nice" for you as an outfitter.
Wrong again Im not an outfitter. I also used the word "some"

[Island Redneck]

Fisher-Dude, For a guy that wants facts from everyone else, you sure throw out a lot of assumptions and half truths.

[Fisher-Dude]

[quote=Sitkaspruce;855466]SG

One thing you seem to forget is that GO's are "Supposed" to be professionals....they are held in a higher light as they are given animals to hunt and make $$$ off of....not weekend warriors who get CORE, pick up a gun and head off in search of an animal. Not that that gives the weekend warriors an excuse, but the GO's need to be held higher and need to be a great example of stewards of the wildlife....and sadly that is not always the case. That damn almighty $$$ will always trump ethics
Curious as to who says they are professionals or gives them this label. I see it on this and other sites where guys are calling them selves professional guides etc, where does this labeling come from themselves to make them selves sound better. When you get a guide license in B.C. does it say professional on it or is there different levels like beginner, intermideate then professional. Just curious.



Actually, the BC MoE states that they are to be held to the highest standards of lawful conduct.


"Under the Wildlife Act , a Regional Manager may hold a hearing to consider licensing actions in response to the conduct of a Guide Outfitter, Guide Angler or Trapper. Through their licence, guides and trappers are representatives of the Crown in British Columbia. As such, they need to be held to a high standard of conduct and must always operate within the law."

[stoneguide]

SG

One thing you seem to forget is that GO's are "Supposed" to be professionals....they are held in a higher light as they are given animals to hunt and make $$$ off of....not weekend warriors who get CORE, pick up a gun and head off in search of an animal. Not that that gives the weekend warriors an excuse, but the GO's need to be held higher and need to be a great example of stewards of the wildlife....and sadly that is not always the case. That damn almighty $$$ will always trump ethics

And I will bet your guide wages to mine that 99.9% of the GO's who were charged and convicted knew exactly what they were doing....and the 0.1% had better lawyers:wink:.

Do not be fooled by what you have experienced, if there is a $$$ to be made, sometimes ethics will go right out the window. It has been proven time and time again......and sorry no graphs, just a life time of experience in both the the GO side and the profession I am in now.

I also agree with what Willy442 said, there is two or three types who are in it for different reasons, same as there is hunters in it for different reasons. Some will be in it for the long haul or enjoyment and some will be in it for the short haul or bragging rights.

Cheers

SS


So because someone is a proffessional makes it less of an offense? Seems to me I said that both groups need to be delt with. Poachers are poahers whether its a guide, outfitter, lawyer, doctor, chat forum moderator or a truck driver. One group or the other shouldnt be held any different than any others. The offense of killing a grizz illegally for example should have the same penalty no matter who did it!

If an outfitter is convicted of a known offense he should loose his license and be unable to operate a concession. There is no excuse. Ive never defended any criminal activities.But a buch of arm chair wanna be's like some on here that try and drag down a few because of others wrongs really dose spiss me off.

Hate to say it and will piss alot off on here but some of the guys on these forums are a total joke.

SG

[NaStY]

Its all in past threads or posts on this site and others you can find them if you like.
One example would be telling people to shoot,shovel and shut up as one moderator has done on a couple occasions, and like I also said he hasnt been charged with anything that I know of and if you need a criminal conviction to justify someones character to you, you might have to dig deeper.
Back to the original topic some outfitters have been instrumental in getting some road closures put in that where nice.

If someone on this site has suggested the 3 "s" (shoot shovel and shut up) Im pretty sure it was done in humor only. Doing it would in fact be illegal and anyone with a hunting license knows that.

[willy442]

Berge, Wesley


(dba: Johiah Lake
Outfitters)

Fort St John

Wildlife Act 8/99


190/84

5(1);
17(1)(m)(ii);
82(1)(c)
$12,000 Hunt big game without hunting licence and species licence; hunt bear
using a dead animal or part of it as bait; makes a false statement in a
book, record, etc. kept under this Act (4 counts). $11,400 payable to



HCTF.



You keep posting Johiah Lake thats 1 outfitter not many. With that many infractions in the operations he should be sent packing just like the other outlaws that were in the business.


On another note what are you accomplishing. The same could be posted on the resident side also guy's. let the courts do the dealing with these idiots and put the money into HCF as thay are doing. Crooks are every where out thier. Only on HBC do they band together.:-D

Review post 213 it explains what you're having so much trouble with FD.