Remington 870

[Big Pops]

hey guys, i know there is already a thread started on this for which shotgun but... i cant afford a wingmaster. i can however, afford the remington 870 express but in the other thread people were just saying wingmaster and not the express and will take any other suggestions for shotguns in that pricerange of around 300-400$. also another question... whats the difference between synthetic, laminate and hardwood stocks?
thanks!!:twisted:

[Singleshotneeded]

:-DGood news, Big Pops, a Wingmaster is just an 870 Express with nicer blueing and wood! The function is identical, and the 870 Express is just as reliable as it's fancier Wingmaster cousin.
Your second question, about stocks, is simple as well! The traditional walnut stock found on rifles and shotguns, from the time of the first firearms, is known as a hardwood stock. Laminated stocks are strips of wood that have been laminated together with glue, like plywood, and these are very strong. When they're sealed well, their advantage is that they don't absorb water and swell, possibly pushing the barrel out of line when hunting in the rain. They're also not affected by heat or cold at all.
Synthetic stocks are plastic or fiberglass, and of course aren't affected by heat, cold, or rain. They're generally cheaper than laminated stocks and don't need to have their sealing touched up if they get a scatch. Some folks prefer wood or laminated wood though.

[Chessieguy]

I have an 870 Express that is now more than 10 years old. I have never had an issue with it. It is still my go to back up gun.

It is definitely a lower end gun as far as finish, the wood is quite soft so go with the synthetic is you can. I had wood and changed it out to the synthetic when the stock developed a split. Also it rusted quite easily, so it needs to be cared for soon after use in the wet or salty conditions. i actually took mine apart and painted it with flat black Tremclad.
I also had a Stoger P350...I would stay away from that, not impressed at all with it, it was just simply cheap.

[weatherby_man]

Nothing wrong with an 870 Express,,,they work very well, take a beating, and will kill things as dead as any other Shotty out there. Yes they do need care when out in the elements. Thats easy to do.

[f350ps]

The metal parts of a Wingmaster are made of a higher quality steel than an Express, including the reciever. The tolerances on a Wingmaster are higher also. I've seen lots of broken parts from an Express and very few from a Wingmaster. If it was me I would buy a used Wingmaster before a new Express. K

[Big Pops]

Wow, thank's for the great info chessie and singleshot, since iv'e heard so many good things about the wingmaster, I'll be going to the shop and seeing if they have the express in synthetic or laminate. I'de like to get it in synthetic because i like the more modern look but either way i wont be complaining. Also one more thing, whats the difference between vent rib and rem choke?
Sorry for all the Noob questions! Haha.

[Big Pops]

Alright f350 ill keep that in mind too, i didn't realise that the wingmaster had better parts. If i see a Wingmaster on here or another site I will be checking it out, I'm using my dad's shotgun at the moment for the last month of goose season but i would like to be getting my own shotgun before next season or whenever a good deal pops up.
Thanks

[MRP]

I have an 870 Express combo that is now more than 20 years old. I have never had a hint of trouble with it. With the deer barrel I can shoot 6” groups freehand at 80 yards with 1oz Winchester slugs. As well as cases of bird shot and 3’’mag #4 shot has gone through it.

[Lone Ranger]

IMHO, an 870 is a great beat around bush gun thats neither garbage nor top of the line. I've owned several and they've always done what I've needed them to and they always drop the game for me. Definitely not a Wingmaster or anything fancy but they offer good value for their price.

If I were out in the marsh a lot, I would definitely spend the extra money and get the Wingmaster or better though as I have never been overly happy with the finish on the 870s and find them to turn a little funky when out in the elements for any length of time. Just my .02. LR

[fowlweather]

the express is just as good! it is just different materials the designs arent as pretty but nobody really cares about that in a waterfowl gun :)

[longshot]

Remington 870 Express is a amazing gun for its price!! Best gun for <400$ IMO! I'd go for the black stock, but thats my preference.

Some other guns that are similar in category are: Benelli Nova/SuperNova, Remington 887, Mossberg 835, Browning BPS, and a few others that I cant think of. But my favourite is the 870!

Longshot jr.

[Big Pops]

Sweet, it's good to know everyone has positive feedback for all the 870's. If I can get the money together Ill go for the wingmaster but if not the express should do me just fine! I'll be sure to let my dad know that this gun will last me the rest of my life so really it's not that much for how long I'll be using it.

[Farmer John]

I'll give you some negative feedback on the 870 Express.

Mine is the 870 Express Super Mag

1. The camo finish on mine wore off in the first season
2. The extractor claw wore out and had to be replaced in the second season
3. The action opens up whenever I shoot 3 inch shells
4. Because of #3, its basically become a single shot
5. It rarely ejects trap shells
6. I'd feel bad selling this P.O.S to someone and I'm sick of sending it in for repairs so it sits in my safe possibly spreading its P.O.S germs to my other guns

[kamloopshunter]

I gotta 870 express as well have not had any problems yet, but haven't had if for that long, 2 years. Mine is the super mag as well. Have yet to try out any 3.5s

[4ptbuck]

I've got a express SM. My ejector broke, but that was a quick easy fix.
I am glad I got the express over the wingmaster. Where I hunt, and with the bouncing it takes in the boat, it would hurt more to mark up a wingmaster.

Overall the finish may be rougher. I think that's FJ's problem above. My gun would used to stick closed after firing sometimes. I spun on some steel wool onto a cleaning brush, attached it to a drill, oiled it up, and polished the chamber. Not a problem since.

[longshot]

Wow, my dad and I have 2 black REM 870 SM, used them for over 5 years, threw FLATS of shells (from buck to #8's) through them, and have never had one issue! Sure the finish isn't beautiful but for us it has proven itself to be indestructable..

Longshot jr.

[Big Pops]

nice, sounds like the SM is also in the picture:), also it is cheaper than the wingmaster. jeez i want one of them all! but... that wont be happening haha.

[Farmer John]

My gun would used to stick closed after firing sometimes. I spun on some steel wool onto a cleaning brush, attached it to a drill, oiled it up, and polished the chamber. Not a problem since.

I did that at least once a week when the gun was being used heavily. It did help a little.

[rbduck]

I bought a Wingmaster in 1974, had it stolen in 85. NEVER had a problem with it. A few years later, I bought an Express. To this day I have never had a problem with it either. I`ve used it on squirrels to geese with a few yotes and fox thrown in. About ten years ago four of us sunk our boat while waterfowling(long story but turned out alright)Anyways, my Express was the only one to work after being filled with swamp goo and loon chit. I swear by that shotgun. Just my thoughts.

Ron:mrgreen:

[Dutch]

Sorry agree with FJ would buy a used wingmaster before a new express,compare the triggers ,firing pin, springs ,after 2 extractors a firing pin and the ENTIRE RIB came off,gone gone gone, you get what you pay for ,shooting 5 -10 boxes a year not beating it too bad ok it probably will be fine ,but when I have 20 black and whites gear down on final I want to have every confidence that the tool I'm using will not let me down..:wink:

[buck nash]

I've had an express for about 3 years now. I've shot hundreds or trap rounds through it (that's 25 shots each round) so thounsands of shots. never an issue with the function of the gun except with some of the cheaper shells it was tough to pull the pump actiton back back, but I think that was the fault of the aluminun "brass" on those shells.

The finish on mine started to chip and flake on the receiver and parts of the barrel in the first year though. So now I have to really keep after it to prevent surface rust. I sent pics to remington and they said it was just wear and tear thus not covered by the warrantee.

[Farmer John]

Here's my Express after 4 years of use.

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/Husbandjc/IMG_0106.jpg
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/Husbandjc/IMG_0109.jpg
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/Husbandjc/IMG_0110.jpg
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/Husbandjc/IMG_0111.jpg
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/Husbandjc/IMG_0113.jpg

The last pic shows how the action opens up after each shot.

[kamloopshunter]

did you tell Remington about this last "feature"? Will they look into why your action is open after it shoots? that really sucks.

[Dutch]

not so far to pump...:mrgreen:

[Tanya]

Been beating on mine for 13 years, the action keeps on going strong. Only issue I've had with the action is with a specific brands of shells jamming, and they were even 2 3/4 inch, not the longer 3".

The gun has been used for everything from bear to quail and performed admirably. It's been dropped out of a tree and finally this year the fore-stock cracked and we replaced it. The finish started to come off after a few years so I rubbed the rest off and oiled it up with lemon oil and it is just fine. Love my "Precious!"

[4ptbuck]

wow FJ,... sorry, but that is one ugly gun.

Time to get the sanblaster out me thinks...

As to the action problem. Does this happen when you shoot, with your left (?) hand on the forearm? Is it a recoil initiated pump? Does it do the same if you shot without touching the forearm? ie resting the barrel on a rest?

I've got a winnie that does the same, and it's defiantely a recoil initated pump.

[lorneparker1]

I've owned and used an 870 express since i was 14. Have put a few thousand rounds through it, of every size and composition (lead, steel, hevi shot, tungsten, etc) It was my first gun, and still comes out with me more then any other gun by far. I own that and a citori over and under. I have used my 870 as a paddle, beat geese down with it, ran over the barrel with a quad 7 or so year ago, ran over the stock this year in a truck, dropped it in the salt water, dropped in the fresh water for over 24 hours, and found it the next day. Literally BEAT THE PISS out of this gun and it still pretty much flawless as far as action. It ain't pretty but still shoots, chambers and ejects very well. Ive cleaned the guns action and breach less then 5 times. Anytime it jams its from me getting a tad excited and cycling to fast. You cant beat it for the price. It is the bigfoot of shotguns.

Lorne

[longshotz]

Lotsa' kudos for the 870. It is a proven platform, and with years of production behind it. Keep in mind that it was really the only show in town back when and so that insures its longevity.

You might want to look at the Weatherby PA-08 and the Winchester SXP. Both provide superb alternatives to the 870. The Mossberg 500 series and the 835 are also worth looking at. I found the Mossberg action not as smooth as the others and the later models have a lot of "plastic" parts in the action to reduce weight. OK as long as you don't want to practice a lot on the trap range. Remingtons new 887 might be worth a look but it is on the higher priced end of pumps.

I've had the 870 Express, the Bennelli Nova and the 1200 Winchester. I'm of smaller stature 5'5" and the Express didn't fit me well with the larger reciever needed for the 3.5 ammo. A friend has a Wingmaster with the 3 inch chamber and it fits me better. Benellis' Nova is a 3.5 gun and I found it cumbersome and ponderous to swing. That said the Benelli Super Nova with the adjustable stock might be worth a look.

While on the topic of fit and swing; this is the single most crucial item on any shotgun. This is something that is a detailed and sometimes complex issue. Better do some research here on your own. Lots of articles on what to look for. Bottom line here is that if the shotgun doesn't fit, you won't be able to hit the inside of a barn.

I would suggest that you post a request to try several pumps at local clubs. That shouldn't be a problem. Lots of good guys and gals on this site.

My 1200 was a marvelous gun and fit me like a glove. With the fit and speed of the pump action, doubles on waterfowl and upland birds were common. I sold it when steel shot became law. The advice was that the gun was not likely to handle steel. Take note here:

**If you intend on buying a used gun of any make, ensure it is steel compatable.**

The new winchester SXP is based on the proven inertia drive pump system and is lightning fast once you master the action. Puts you on target faster with follow up shots than other pumps. Also the SXP stock dimensions are similar to the SX3 and fit is marvelous. Back bored barrel and the In-Flex recoil pad help tame the shoulder hurt.

Look for a chrome bore if you intend to shoot over (salty) water or in real wet weather. In addition it will stand up better to volume shooting over the years with steel shot. All high end guns have it. The twin slide bars on the SXP are of one piece construction and enhance the smooth operation of the gun. Take down is simple and cleaning a breeze. The 870 is not quite so easy and the Benelli is the simplest of all 3 to dissassembly.

Stocks of synthetic material tend to be very slippery in wet weather. Wood not so much. Bowning and Benelli have a synthetic material treated to give a much better grip in the wet. Try them at the store. There are after-market products to put on synthetic stocks to overcome this shortfall.

Weight is another consideration. If you have fallen victim to the myth of the 3.5 super magnum killers then you will be limiting your choice to guns on the larger side to handle the longer ammo. Bigger (read heavier here) takes away from fast swing. I find lighter is better; others like the more controlled swing afforded by bigger, heavier guns. A personal choice. (Refer to my suggestion of try out earlier)

If you want more detail, no problem; PM me.

[Big Pops]

Wow longshotz thanks for the info, very well written up!
I did think the synthetic would be slipperier(just looks that way) but it's lighter isn't it?

[longshotz]

Wow longshotz thanks for the info, very well written up!
I did think the synthetic would be slipperier(just looks that way) but it's lighter isn't it?

You are correct on both counts; generally speaking. I have handled my friends synthetic stocked centerfires and a couple of them have come in heavier than when stocked in wood. Synthetic stocks are "slippier"; just the nature of the beast. and there are a number of after market products that will alleviate this problem.

Laminated tends to be the heaviest of the wood stocks, but are 98% as good as synthetic for weather resistance.

Wood stocks of the same make can also be different weights. My Beretta AL 390 Stonecoat is 6 oz. heavier than an AL 390 Gold that a fellow club members shoots. Same action, barrel length etc., just dressed differently.

[Cariboo Game Calls]

As far as the Remington 870 goes I never owned one and didn't particularly like the feel or fit, however I know they are tough. A freind of mine set his on the roof of his car after one of our duck hunting outings years ago and forgot it until we heard a noise at about 60 plus clicks. The 870 hit the pavement and slid a bit, but other than a few dings, scrapes and scratches the old 870 functioned pretty much reliably as always.

Personally my pump gun of choice is a mid 70's Ithaca Model 37 with vent rib and I also have a rifled Deerslayer barrel for it that was one of the few that were factory ported. I hear they are making these guns again and if the quality and reliabilty is still as good as the older ones, they are worth checking out.

My semi-autos of choice are a Benelli Super Black Eagle, a Benelli Super Sport and a Remington 1100 28 ga. My O&U of choice is a Renato Gamba Daytona Special Sporting 12 Ga.

While I do have several completely different shotguns, I made sure each one fit by altering the comb height etc. The Benelli guns are easy because you get shims etc that allow you to shift the stock up, down and sideways. Others were a close enough fit right from the factory, but my Gamba required peeling a bit off the comb with a horse shoeing rasp. I don't advise trying that unless you are sure you know what you are doing. I didn't and took a gamble. Fortunately it worked out for me and I didn't mess up a $9000.00 shotgun, but I would definitely spend the money with a good gunstock maker if I ever had to have aterations done again on an expensive gun.