JANUARY WARM SPELL, NO freind to wildlife,,

[elkdom]

a recent warm spell here in 7B isnt the best for deer,elk and moose, temperatures for several days well above freezing and last night warm plus+4 Celsius with a heavy steady rain fall lasting about 2 hours, will make for a heavy hard to dig through crust for wildlife, once it gets colder, the icy crust on top of about 30 inches of snow will make it easy for predators to run down deer elk and moose,
I have already set out over 4000 lbs of good hay for deer and local moose, on just 5 acres of land, most days I have 30/40 deer, a mixture of whities and mulies and sometimes as many as 9 moose coming for some quality forage, so far only the occasional Yoty comes around looking for an easy meal of Yearling deer or moose, if I am home , he gets a full meal deal of lead, wolves not brave enough to come near civilization yet! but as the ungulates weaken the wolves will get braver!

so please take every legal opportunity to wack a wolf or yoty,:evil: and help out ungulate populations during the next 2 or 3 months,,,,

[moosinaround]

I am heading up on the 3rd for the elk season elkdom. I will be looking for the wolves to help you northerners out!! Moosin

[elkdom]

I am heading up on the 3rd for the elk season elkdom. I will be looking for the wolves to help you northerners out!! Moosin

EAT WOLF ! 3000 GREENPEE$$ERS CANT BE WRONG!:wink:

ps; just looked out my window, a Spike whitetail buck eating on a hay bale, 20 feet from my computer,,,

if I wasnt so totally dense at using a computer:?,

I would hook up a camera to this computer,,,, signed ELKDUHHHHH !:confused:

[BCrams]

a will make for a heavy hard to dig through crust for wildlife, once it gets colder, the icy crust on top of about 30 inches of snow will make it easy for predators to run down deer elk and moose,
I have already set out over 4000 lbs of good hay for deer and local moose, on just 5 acres of land, most days I have 30/40 deer, a mixture of whities and mulies and sometimes as many as 9 moose coming for some quality forage

One thing you're correct on is a mid winter crust layer giving wolves and even coyotes a big advantage running down game. Doesn't take much for things to turn around either with a warm chinook to blow areas and hills free of snow.

It is my opinion and better off to let wild game animals obtain their food naturally. Hay is not quite part of deer's natural winter diet and you can do more harm introducing the hay which doesn't give them any nutritional value over natural food source!

I wouldn't worry about trying to feed moose as their preferred source in winter is typically above the snow depth (i.e., willow, dogwood etc). Deer will also resort to twig tips, buds, and other browse species as well when they cannot paw through the snow (both whiteys and muleys).

The agriculture zone in the Peace certainly is within a variable winter climate with some years worse than others and the animal numbers fluctuating as a result!! I've always had the perception that if animals rely only on agricultural fields to live and not the surrounding habitat, that perhaps numbers are artificially high given the conditions, particularly after many mild winters. Consequently, when it gets tough going, its usually the wildlife that are utilizing the habitat surrounding fields that come out ahead.

[elkdom]

One thing you're correct on is a mid winter crust layer giving wolves and even coyotes a big advantage running down game.

It is my opinion and better off to let wild game animals obtain their food naturally. Hay is not quite part of deer's natural winter diet and you can do more harm introducing the hay which doesn't give them any nutritional value over natural food source!

I wouldn't worry about trying to feed moose as their preferred source in winter is typically above the snow depth (i.e., willow, dogwood etc). Deer will also resort to twig tips, buds, and other browse species as well when they cannot paw through the snow (both whiteys and muleys).

the local deer in this area most prefer digging forage in hayfields under snow, and the "winter kill a few years ago" was not devastating locally such as many other areas,as well as the moose, the "green feed" I provide is a mixture of quality grasses and "green feed oat bales", when the fields they forage in are under a crust of 30 inches of snow with 3 inches of solid ice, they are doomed, a month ago they were standing on their hind legs, eating moss of the spruce trees, as high up as they could reach, the one 60 acre field near the house last winter had over 130 deer on a daily basis scratching hay under the SOFT last winter snow, most does had twin fawns this last spring with many having triplets,about 20 moose also used that field all winter long, surviving quite well, and yet just a few klms away moose feeding in wild forage areas were very "tic infested" and I found several dead in those ares, as for the moose using the local forage fields, there was not one found sick or dead with tics,

I have noticed that where deer feed on clover bales only, they will not do well,,

[todbartell]

hmmmmm, isn't it funny how farmers complain about deer/elk/moose eating their haystacks and their neighbour is laying it out to them. Once you're out of hay, where will they go? :D

[elkdom]

hmmmmm, isn't it funny how farmers complain about deer/elk/moose eating their haystacks and their neighbour is laying it out to them. Once you're out of hay, where will they go? :D

I purchase my forage to feed the hungry critters from those VERY Farmers and Ranchers, usually I have spoken for forage to purchase in early summer, and as those farmers and ranchers have known me for many, many years !.
I have NO trouble with PRICE or QUALITY, some areas Ijust have the farmer leave a bunch of round bales in one remote part of the ranch, for winter forage, some years I spend up near a $1000 in welfare hay for wildlife:wink:,
being a HD Mechanic self employed, I can wheel and dead a load of hay quite reasonably!:mrgreen:

[BCrams]

the local deer in this area most prefer digging forage in hayfields under snow, and the "winter kill a few years ago" was not devastating locally such as many other areas,as well as the moose, the "green feed" I provide is a mixture of quality grasses and "green feed oat bales", when the fields they forage in are under a crust of 30 inches of snow with 3 inches of solid ice, they are doomed, a month ago they were standing on their hind legs, eating moss of the spruce trees, as high up as they could reach, the one 60 acre field near the house last winter had over 130 deer on a daily basis scratching hay under the SOFT last winter snow, most does had twin fawns this last spring with many having triplets,about 20 moose also used that field all winter long, surviving quite well, and yet just a few klms away moose feeding in wild forage areas were very "tic infested" and I found several dead in those ares, as for the moose using the local forage fields, there was not one found sick or dead with tics,

I have noticed that where deer feed on clover bales only, they will not do well,,

Thats just my point. They're surviving under 'un natural' conditions with such a high reliability on fields for food. :-D They don't really have a rats chance at all as soon as it ices up or crusts up except for those that have learned to utilize the other natural forage in the timber ;)

[elkdom]

Thats just my point. They're surviving under 'un natural' conditions with such a high reliability on fields for food. :-D They don't really have a rats chance at all as soon as it ices up or crusts up except for those that have learned to utilize the other natural forage in the timber ;)

then we agree!:)
UN-NATURAL CONDITIONS( human provided winter feeding) have enhanced elk herds in Wyoming and Colorado to what it is today, MILLIONS of Elk ! :wink:

[BCrams]

then we agree!:)
UN-NATURAL CONDITIONS( human provided winter feeding) have enhanced elk herds in Wyoming and Colorado to what it is today, MILLIONS of Elk ! :wink:

Do you think its a good thing? :wink:

[elkdom]

Do you think its a good thing? :wink:

I duno ? where each hunting season a State Elk Hunting Harvest exceeds all numbers of wild Elk alive at any one time in OUR province BC ,,????

maybe they ( Colorado and Wyoming ) are doing something wrong :cry: feeding them in the winter,

[BlackwaterHunter]

I just went to let my dog in and 10 feet away was a cow moose, and her calf was back a lil bit father munhcing on the compost :D thats how ill help them out

[BCrams]

I duno ?

maybe they ( Colorado and Wyoming ) are doing something wrong :cry: feeding them in the winter,

Supplemental feeding programs set up as early as 1912 was a bright idea to bring the elk numbers back and to maintain large herds ...... it had an undeniable benefit of helping bring the herds to what they are today in areas like Wyo and Colo....

Quite the debate going on the last few years in that regard though :wink: BC can learn a lot from the overall impacts it has had. Quite frankly, its a mess from all angles.

[knighthunter]

I applaud you. Before I moved to BC, I fed deer everytime they had a tough winter.

[elkdom]

I applaud you. Before I moved to BC, I fed deer everytime they had a tough winter.

thanks, no applause needed on my part,,:-|
here is a pic of moose 30 yards from my window, taken about 10 minutes ago,,, some other pics today in HBC Photo Gallery,

I will try post more as I catch them sneakin in for a treat, :wink:

[hunter1947]

Good post ,you are the man doing what you can for wildlife being an arden hunter like your self you give back what you can ,good for you Doug http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif..

[elkdom]

Good post ,you are the man doing what you can for wildlife being an arden hunter like your self you give back what you can ,good for you Doug http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif..

I am FATTENING them up for ulterior motives:twisted:, lol

every few days I place out a tub(about a bushel) of crushed corn, barley and crushed oats , they love that!:mrgreen: but I cant afford too many bushels of that stuff $$$ lol

[BCrams]

elkdom - A question for you:

What do you think would be the perfect system to create disease problems such as C.W.D. and other diseases prevalent in wildlife?

[bforce750]

I am FATTENING them up for ulterior motives:twisted:, lol

every few days I place out a tub(about a bushel) of crushed corn, barley and crushed oats , they love that!:mrgreen: but I cant afford too many bushels of that stuff $$$ lol

In my opinion you are doing a good thing, but theres always a critic that has nothing better to do:-D.

[Kudu]

Good for you - Some may not agree with what you are doing, but honestly - do you really give a damn?


Sort out a place where we can donate some cash - I for one, would be more than happy to send you a few dollars to buy a couple more tubs of crushed corn, barley and oats.


And BTW - thank you for doing what you can!

This is just another post showing that there are many facets to a hunter - Just a pity the bloody tree huger's or Dyke soilers can't see it.

..

[Ddog]

i for one think it is wrong to feed wild animals unless there is some kind of severe, rare weather condition that they will not survive without the aid of us.
to say that wacking a wolf or coyote is the thing to do to save ungulate populations is totally ludicrous.
ungulate populations are as healthy as ever, and so are predator populations. there is room for both.

[ohotnik]

Doug,
Thank you for supporting the wildlife in those critical winter conditions. You are THE HUNTER! I would like to do something too, but living in LM does not provide many options. I will PM you about possible participation.

I am wondering how many deer/moose lives you have saved and how many you have harvested? I think the balance is obvious.

Seeing you shed full of 6 point plus elk antlers proves that karma is a matter of fact!

[sawmill]

then we agree!:)
UN-NATURAL CONDITIONS( human provided winter feeding) have enhanced elk herds in Wyoming and Colorado to what it is today, MILLIONS of Elk ! :wink:
Big ass fine for feeding deer in town here.Kimberley was the first city in B.C. to enact that.Wasn`t easy to get it past the Granolas and the cat ladies.

[BCrams]

This is just another post showing that there are many facets to a hunter - Just a pity the bloody tree huger's or Dyke soilers can't see it.

..

Hunters are often their own worst enemy ;)


thanks, no applause needed on my part,,:-|
here is a pic of moose 30 yards from my window, taken about 10 minutes ago,,, some other pics today in HBC Photo Gallery,


Thats far from a critical situation for moose with that snow depth. Even with crust :roll:


Doug,
Thank you for supporting the wildlife in those critical winter conditions.


I doubt winter conditions are as critical as he's letting on right now.

[sawmill]

i for one think it is wrong to feed wild animals unless there is some kind of severe, rare weather condition that they will not survive without the aid of us.
to say that wacking a wolf or coyote is the thing to do to save ungulate populations is totally ludicrous.
ungulate populations are as healthy as ever, and so are predator populations. there is room for both.

Ahhhh,Thanks Bud.Couldn`t have put it any better.

[elkdom]

Good for you - Some may not agree with what you are doing, but honestly - do you really give a damn?


Sort out a place where we can donate some cash - I for one, would be more than happy to send you a few dollars to buy a couple more tubs of crushed corn, barley and oats.


And BTW - thank you for doing what you can!

This is just another post showing that there are many facets to a hunter - Just a pity the bloody tree huger's or Dyke soilers can't see it.

..

I see hundreds of deer and dozens of moose and elk killed on a major hwy just 2 klms from my home, all year round,every year! will the MOE, or the Ministry of HWYs or ICBC do a penny of prevention? NO! not a CENT! or anything to keep wildlife from being slaughtered as they lick salt from the hwy? NO, SFA is the norm, the feed and the minerals I provide on my property is on my own DIME, they can kiss my Royal Canadian too'sh,
I have many deer and moose here in my back yard,all year round, many years I wont harvest a deer at all, my choice, pass up hundreds, every hunting season,
then every year, I read threads about how guys think deer and moose populations are decimated in some parts of 7B ?, :?

[elkdom]

Hunters are often their own worst enemy ;)



Thats far from a critical situation for moose with that snow depth. Even with crust :roll:



I doubt winter conditions are as critical as he's letting on right now.


young deer trying to avoid predators and find food in shoulder depth snow, with a thick icy crust are in critical danger of not surviving, I have the recent pictures ,and previous years personal observances,

so roll your eyes and have a good day!:wink:

[DEER 24/7]

elkdom keep up the good work and thank you for doing whats right ya i hunt. but i still can'nt imagine being a say a turkey on limb at night in the middle of winter thanks for sharing pics

[BCrams]

young deer trying to avoid predators and find food in shoulder depth snow, with a thick icy crust are in critical danger of not surviving, I have the recent pictures ,and previous years personal observances,


Many die and many live every winter Quite natural - some by predators and some by starving. Nothing new!

I'm not putting into question there have been a couple very notable die offs in the Peace. It is also known that there were too many animals than the habitat could support and mother nature took care of the surplus. ;)

How about that quesiton I posed to you?

What do you think would be the perfect system to create disease problems such as C.W.D. and other diseases prevalent in wildlife?

[elkdom]

elkdom keep up the good work and thank you for doing whats right ya i hunt. but i still can'nt imagine being a say a turkey on limb at night in the middle of winter thanks for sharing pics

I know EXACTLY what a "turkey on a limb in the middle of winter feels like":?

just look at some comments about my personal outlook on wildlife enhancement ? do I care???

gobble ,gobble ,gobble , lol:wink:

[ohotnik]

Hundreds or even thousands threads here are about what is good or wrong for wildlife. 90% of them are plain theoretical, hypotetical or/and hypocritical.
Elkdom is ACTUALLY doing something, spending hard earned cash, time and physical efforts on what he believes is right to support local ingulate population.
Most hunters (including myself) are only care about getting out there, have a good time and fill up their freezer. If not successful we start bitching on internet about lack of game and winter/tick die-offs, trying to get somebody (goverment, officials) to do something about it. IMHO.

Again, thank you Doug, for giving me a good example of true sportsmanship.

[elkdom]

Many die and many live every winter Quite natural - some by predators and some by starving. Nothing new!

I'm not putting into question there have been a couple very notable die offs in the Peace. It is also known that there were too many animals than the habitat could support and mother nature took care of the surplus. ;)

How about that quesiton I posed to you?

What do you think would be the perfect system to create disease problems such as C.W.D. and other diseases prevalent in wildlife?

CWD is NATURALLY occurring in deer and elk and other ruminants,,, whats YOUR solution?

[Alpine Addict]

Animals have been around alot longer than us. Have suffered MANY bad winters, and high wolf numbers. I say let nature take its course. It has for thousands of years

[BCrams]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/P1030868_300x225_.jpg
yearlingWT having trouble in deep snow, my back yard Jan26,2011

Elkdom - thats a poor picture seeing as the "mule deer" is quite far in front of that snow pile at the fore of the picture trying to give it the 'illusion' its ass deep in snow when its not. I'm sure a lot of folks will see right through the poor attempt at trick photography ;)

You know its a mule deer don't you :mrgreen:

[BCrams]

CWD is NATURALLY occurring in deer and elk and other ruminants,,, whats YOUR solution?

To answer the question for you - a feeding program such as yours can do more harm than good with regards to CWD and other wildlife diseases ;)

[elkdom]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/P1030868_300x225_.jpg
yearlingWT having trouble in deep snow, my back yard Jan26,2011

Elkdom - thats a poor picture seeing as the "mule deer" is quite far in front of that snow pile at the fore of the picture trying to give it the 'illusion' its ass deep in snow when its not.

You know its a mule deer don't you :mrgreen:

hahaha, actually the deer" mule deer" is in a pathway/trench they have walked down through my property , my BAD, the folder has both whities and muleies from the last couple of days,,

but good on you for spotting the error of my ways, lol

[tikkatac]

So, What happens if you die tomorrow and the animals that have been frequenting your feed lot since they were just wee don't have the helpings they're use to getting on a daily basis? Doi they sit and wait for you to feed them?

Just my .02
Let them fend for themselves, if more die from winter then less get taken from hunting, Who are we to manage the population so we can all have a succesfull hunting season.

Why not open a moose farm and sell tickets to hunters?

[BCrams]

hahaha, actually the deer" mule deer" is in a pathway/trench they have walked down through my property , my BAD, the folder has both whities and muleies from the last couple of days,,

but good on you for spotting the error of my ways, lol


No problem, anything to help you. :mrgreen:

Would love to see the photo of the "struggling yearling white-tailed deer" you must have as you stated it was Jan 26th (today)... just like the moose.

[MuleyMadness]

I think a singular point is being missed here, and that is the fact that where Elkdom is, the deer, moose, and elk are eating in the haystacks anyways, foraging for swathed but not harvested crops, etc whether or not he's laying them out. Don't forget that when the elk, moose, deer, etc urinate on the hay/feed that the ranchers have to feed their cattle, the beef will no longer go near them. Eat 25lbs, piss on 100, and there is 125lbs of feed gone. So perhaps his way of doing it (and I know plenty of ranchers will do the same, by laying out a separate stack away from where their cattle are fed so ALL the feed isn't eaten and ruined) will help the farmers, and help the ungulates. Let's remember as well that they are ruminants, and as such wouldn't be able to survive on hay/whatever crop feed alone, if their bodies didn't have time to get accustomed to the feed, creating the natural digestive enzymes to allow the animals to survive off the feed he's laying out. That is why a deer can starve to death with a belly full of hay. So if they weren't already eating it, the food would not do them any good.

Look I'm not saying it's necessarily good, or necessarily, bad, but the wild game is feeding on feed that is intended for the ranchers herd, whether anyone likes it or not. Maybe this will help alleviate that issue, and as a result, help the farmers, which, for the most part, want nothing more than to keep the animals out of their stacks.

[elkdom]

To answer the question for you - a feeding program such as yours can do more harm than good with regards to CWD and other wildlife diseases ;)

I was NOT aware of a RECENT outbreak of CWD in NorthEast BC ?

perhaps you are better informed than I ?, how many cases of CWD in BC in the last 10 years ? please provide stats ! :-|

[Tenacious Billy]

So, What happens if you die tomorrow and the animals that have been frequenting your feed lot since they were just wee don't have the helpings they're use to getting on a daily basis? Doi they sit and wait for you to feed them?

Just my .02
Let them fend for themselves, if more die from winter then less get taken from hunting, Who are we to manage the population so we can all have a succesfull hunting season.

Why not open a moose farm and sell tickets to hunters?

Probably the same thing that happens when the area an animal has been feeding over burns up in a forest fire.......they try to adapt. Not taking sides, just sayin'........

[elkdom]

So, What happens if you die tomorrow and the animals that have been frequenting your feed lot since they were just wee don't have the helpings they're use to getting on a daily basis? Doi they sit and wait for you to feed them?

Just my .02
Let them fend for themselves, if more die from winter then less get taken from hunting, Who are we to manage the population so we can all have a succesfull hunting season.

Why not open a moose farm and sell tickets to hunters?

well if you can go out and spot 50/60 maybe more deer during a legal deer season within 10 klms of your house in one hour of deer hunting pass them all up ? , YOU just may have an opinion that I would take time to listen to! If YOU passed up maybe 40 or 50 legal bucks ( WT or Muley)during a deer season in any year ,,
you also may something to add? if YOU have dozens of deer all 12 months of the year, living in your yard ? you would also have something to add !

this being YOUR first post ?, leaves a LOT for you to add!:wink:

[BCrams]

Look I'm not saying it's necessarily good, or necessarily, bad, but the wild game is feeding on feed that is intended for the ranchers herd, whether anyone likes it or not. Maybe this will help alleviate that issue, and as a result, help the farmers, which, for the most part, want nothing more than to keep the animals out of their stacks.


I was NOT aware of a RECENT outbreak of CWD in NorthEast BC ?

perhaps you are better informed than I ?, how many cases of CWD in BC in the last 10 years ? please provide stats ! :-|


No outbreak of CWD that we're aware of. I am sure its just a matter of time.

Read the question again - I just asked if you're aware what kind of environment is best for wildlife diseases to occur. It is quite well documented.... creating an environment where you concentrate wildlife are going to be way more susceptible to disease outbreaks when one does occur!

But lets get to the CWD example -


Chronic wasting disease seems more likely to occur in areas where deer or elk are crowded or where they congregate at man-made feed and water stations. Artificial feeding or baiting of deer and elk may compound the problem (Williams and Young 1980, Miller, Wild and Williams 1998).


Research data suggest that supplemental feeding of deer has the potential to increase disease
transmission through close animal contacts with food, feces, urine, and other animals at the feed pile. This is especially true when feeding during winter concentrates animals for a prolonged period of time.


Logic implies the animals you're feeding all winter long are going to be far more susceptible than free ranging animals. :wink:

All sorts of very interesting research and discussions going on these days.

[elkdom]

any way its FEEDING time,,,, so get yah all later,,,,
gonna take a drive down yonder, maybe wack a coyote from the hood of my pic-up, talk to a few FOREINGERS driving the local roads hoping to find an elk, they always ask "WHERE's the elks :?" I just shrug and say "out there somewhere"

later, GROUP HUG NOW :wink:

[elkdom]

No outbreak of CWD that we're aware of. I am sure its just a matter of time.

Read the question again - I just asked if you're aware what kind of environment is best for wildlife diseases to occur. It is quite well documented.... creating an environment where you concentrate wildlife are going to be way more susceptible to disease outbreaks when one does occur!

But lets get to the CWD example -


Chronic wasting disease seems more likely to occur in areas where deer or elk are crowded or where they congregate at man-made feed and
water stations. Artificial feeding or baiting of deer and elk may compound the problem (Williams and Young 1980, Miller, Wild and Williams 1998).

Logic implies the animals you're feeding all winter long are going to be far more susceptible than free ranging animals.


All sorts of very interesting research and discussions going on these days.

HOW MANY Gov't documented cases of CWD in NE BC in last 10 years,,???

there are huge elk farms just 3 klms from my house(Alta), guess what? NO CWD, they test every animal slaughtered!:wink:

[hunter1947]

So, What happens if you die tomorrow and the animals that have been frequenting your feed lot since they were just wee don't have the helpings they're use to getting on a daily basis? Doi they sit and wait for you to feed them?

Just my .02
Let them fend for themselves, if more die from winter then less get taken from hunting, Who are we to manage the population so we can all have a succesfull hunting season.

Why not open a moose farm and sell tickets to hunters?

Elkdom never said that he was feeding the animals from when they where young on up to adult age ,elkdom is just helping out when it is hard times then he stops what he is doing when danger of frozen ground ends ,the animals that he is feeding already know how to get by with natural feeding but when things are tough why not help out if you can..

[Matty_ola]

Watching moose and deer from your window.... That would be pretty cool.

Some guys have all the luck:(

Where do I find the pictures???

[knightcc]

Good for you elkdom. I feed top quality alfalfa bales as well to whitetails. As long as we do it within reason, I see no problem with it. You aren't forcing it down their throats, if they want it, it's there for them. I also try and knock down as many coyotes as possible. We should always try and be vigilant in helping to manage wildlife. That is why hunters are the best environmentalists.

[bforce750]

So, What happens if you die tomorrow and the animals that have been frequenting your feed lot since they were just wee don't have the helpings they're use to getting on a daily basis? Doi they sit and wait for you to feed them?

Just my .02
Let them fend for themselves, if more die from winter then less get taken from hunting, Who are we to manage the population so we can all have a succesfull hunting season.

Why not open a moose farm and sell tickets to hunters?

They just go and eat it from the farmer he bought the feed from .

[BCrams]

HOW MANY Gov't documented cases of CWD in NE BC in last 10 years,,???

there are huge elk farms just 3 klms from my house(Alta), guess what? NO CWD, they test every animal slaughtered!

There's a very good reason why we now have regulations to prevent bringing in carcasses from the other provinces without having them processed out there first etc :wink:

I already told you if you would calm down and read everything I write ... I said no cases "yet" and we want to maintain that. My example isn't limited to CWD but boy your little herd would be a magnet to spread disease if one animal brings one in!! :-)

[Matty_ola]

So, What happens if you die tomorrow and the animals that have been frequenting your feed lot since they were just wee don't have the helpings they're use to getting on a daily basis? Doi they sit and wait for you to feed them?

Just my .02
Let them fend for themselves, if more die from winter then less get taken from hunting, Who are we to manage the population so we can all have a succesfull hunting season.

Why not open a moose farm and sell tickets to hunters?

Those comments are certainly no way to make new friends:-?

Welcome anyway:)

[hunter1947]

Putting out grain etc if it is not good for our wildlife to feed on then we are in big trouble because the cattle eat the same :confused:.

[yamadirt 426]

Keep it up :) I would love to hunt your land and take care of that cwd for you :)

[hunter1947]

Here in around Cranbrook there is only about 4 inches of snow left on the ground making it easy feeding for the wildlife at low elevations ,I hope the mild weather keep up the long range forecast is calling for above seasonal weather :-D..

[Kootenai]

I put out COB for the birds, about 10 pounds a day. Damn deer keep coming and eat it. Strange though, only when the forage is tough to get do the deer come around. I have told the deer over and over, " go back to the forest and starve naturally!"

[bear buster]

Elkdom, I have a few farmers set up hay stacks for me too, have 6 going this year, but I do it for the sheds! and to help out the critters aswell, even have feeders in Alberta going. Keep up the good work, and if you need someone to collect sheds:)

[Gun Dog]

Animals have been around alot longer than us. Have suffered MANY bad winters, and high wolf numbers. I say let nature take its course. It has for thousands of yearsWhile humans are a part of nature we also tend to dominate the landscape with roads, towns, cities, ranches, mines, and logging. Some of that benefits animals and some of it harms them.

I'm fine with Elkdom providing a helping hand to balance out the downside of civilization. Having deer and moose and elk near the house is cool too.

I don't hear the Audubon Society complaining about people feeding birds.

[elkdom]

Elkdom, I have a few farmers set up hay stacks for me too, have 6 going this year, but I do it for the sheds! and to help out the critters aswell, even have feeders in Alberta going. Keep up the good work, and if you need someone to collect sheds:)

your welcome when the time is right, seeing now the deer are staying pretty much to the same trails and feeding areas, the sheds will be more centralized to where they have been congregated the last few months before shedding their antlers,,

as for supplementing good feed in harder winters, I have for more than 20 years in this location, so do many of my nearby neighbors, many of them for 30/40/50 years, I will continue to do so at my own discretion,,

I do not wish for extra cash input ,or commendations of thanks,
in 20 years I have NOT killed a deer on my property near the Prov Park, they can have safe haven here and return to the Prov Park or go as they please, I do it because I fell it helps them out, no profit!, no personal reward!

[rocksteady]

Popcorn!!! Get your Popcorn!!!!

This is gonna get good, I can feel it :):twisted::-D:twisted::mrgreen:

[kootenayelkslayer]

HOW MANY Gov't documented cases of CWD in NE BC in last 10 years,,???


Just because it isn't here yet doesn't mean that we should invite it with open arms. Many biologists feel it's just a matter of time.
As BCRams eluded to, congregations of feeding ungulates can be a recipe for disease.

Edit* I'm not necessarily for or against supplemental feeding by the way. But in some circumstances it seems counterproductive because the animals aren't accustomed to that type of food (in the Peace I'm guessing they are in fact accustomed to hay already). I would advocate supplemental feedings if conditions were very harsh and feed was spread over a larger area, rather than concentrating it, for example, in someones backyard ;)

[Crossfire]

I think that there is nothing wrong with feeding the ungulates during harsh conditions. For any hunter that thinks deer, elk and moose don't feed on hay, grain or pretty much any other 'manmade' crop, they should really go for a drive pretty much anywhere in southern AB or the Peace region. As for CWD, there are so many factors that play into its origin, spread or 'control', even the 'expert biologists' are stabbing in the dark as to what to do about it. I say kudos to you Elkdom for doing what you can. The doubters should mind their business and concentrate on doing something productive - other than argue for the sake of arguing.

[leadpillproductions]

Good job some times they need a little help, also makes for a healthy herd

[kootenayelkslayer]

I think that there is nothing wrong with feeding the ungulates during harsh conditions. For any hunter that thinks deer, elk and moose don't feed on hay, grain or pretty much any other 'manmade' crop, they should really go for a drive pretty much anywhere in southern AB or the Peace region.

That may be true. But those animals are adapted to eating such things. If a guy were to dump a bunch of hay in an area where the animals are not used to it, it's not going to do any good for any ungulates because they're not able to digest it.

[BromBones]

That may be true. But those animals are adapted to eating such things. If a guy were to dump a bunch of hay in an area where the animals are not used to it, it's not going to do any good for any ungulates because they're not able to digest it.

Exactly. The critter can have a gut full of hay, and still starve to death. Best thing to do is cut good browse and pile it up for em. They're still getting their 'natural' food, just all lumped in one spot so they don't have to burn energy moving to find more. A few good volunteers, saws, and pickup trucks can do quite a bit of work on a weekend. A mineral block or two probably wouldn't hurt either - always see deer in with my horses, licking the salt blocks in the winter time.

They don't get any of my hay though :)

[hunter1947]

your welcome when the time is right, seeing now the deer are staying pretty much to the same trails and feeding areas, the sheds will be more centralized to where they have been congregated the last few months before shedding their antlers,,

as for supplementing good feed in harder winters, I have for more than 20 years in this location, so do many of my nearby neighbors, many of them for 30/40/50 years, I will continue to do so at my own discretion,,

I do not wish for extra cash input ,or commendations of thanks,
in 20 years I have NOT killed a deer on my property near the Prov Park, they can have safe haven here and return to the Prov Park or go as they please, I do it because I fell it helps them out, no profit!, no personal reward!

You are doing this because you want to help out with nature revolving around bad times my thoughts are you are doing no wrong a month or two of feeding wild animals off and on.

When you stop I would say that you are not going to see a dead animals laying around your fields and yard ,my thoughts are that you won't find one dead animal weeks after you don't feed them anymore ,good for you Elkdom keep up what you think is right I'm sure it will go a long ways http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif..

[KevinB]

The doubters should mind their business and concentrate on doing something productive - other than argue for the sake of arguing.

A guy starts a thread about a topic that he has to know will generate some controversy, on the INTERNET of all places......and you're say that anyone that has something negative to say about it should just STFU? You're kidding, right? If the OP doesn't want to hear anything contrary to his opinion, then he should stick to blogging and stay away from this, which is a FORUM.


I don't believe for one second that Rams is arguing for the sake of arguing. He's trying to make a point but as usual with this kind of thing, there are those who prefer not to listen because they'd rather just keep doing what they've always done.

[snareman1234]

A guy starts a thread about a topic that he has to know will generate some controversy, on the INTERNET of all places......and you're say that anyone that has something negative to say about it should just STFU? You're kidding, right? If the OP doesn't want to hear anything contrary to his opinion, then he should stick to blogging and stay away from this, which is a FORUM.


I don't believe for one second that Rams is arguing for the sake of arguing. He's trying to make a point but as usual with this kind of thing, there are those who prefer not to listen because they'd rather just keep doing what they've always done.

I agree, I think that rams is right, and that although there are good intentions, a slight modification would produce way better results from efforts.



Exactly. The critter can have a gut full of hay, and still starve to death. Best thing to do is cut good browse and pile it up for em. They're still getting their 'natural' food, just all lumped in one spot so they don't have to burn energy moving to find more. A few good volunteers, saws, and pickup trucks can do quite a bit of work on a weekend. A mineral block or two probably wouldn't hurt either - always see deer in with my horses, licking the salt blocks in the winter time.


This seems like a great idea, Deer are browsers, and their guts are designed to digest highly nutritious, but often toxic browse material,

but hay is not browse material, it is somewhat graze material, but not even very nutritious at that.

[horshur]

This seems like a great idea, Deer are browsers, and their guts are designed to digest highly nutritious, but often toxic browse material,

but hay is not browse material, it is somewhat graze material, but not even very nutritious at that.

it would depend on the type and quality of the hay..a good legume hay deer like..they chase the green in the fall for this reason...it is highly nutritious and bucks will travel a long way to feed on it live or dried.

[Island Redneck]

Deer and elk and moose are browsers and grazers, they feed on grasses and browse. The problem arises when you wait until the animals are starving and in very poor condition and then feed them large quantities of high protien hay they cannot digest it and starve with a full belly of hay.

The way Elkdom is feeding them, they get a chance to climatize thier digestive system to the feed and they will only use the hay to supplement
thier regular diet. Keep up the good work Elkdom.

[Bear Chaser]

My example isn't limited to CWD but boy your little herd would be a magnet to spread disease if one animal brings one in!! :-)

Elkdom's "little" herd is no different than a thousand other "little" herds that congregate in every stack yard in the Peace region. What do you propose that we do about all the rest of them?
BTW I assume you are aware that elk are by nature a highly social HERD animal that tend to group together wherever there is feed wild or domestic. Perhaps we should be worried about elk wintering ranges up on the Tuchodi and Muskwa as well.

[elkdom]

Elkdom's "little" herd is no different than a thousand other "little" herds that congregate in every stack yard in the Peace region. What do you propose that we do about all the rest of them?
BTW I assume you are aware that elk are by nature a highly social HERD animal that tend to group together wherever there is feed wild or domestic. Perhaps we should be worried about elk wintering ranges up on the Tuchodi and Muskwa as well.

yeh yeh blah blah, lol,,,,,
on a $hittier note, snowing like gang busters out here, wind and snow so hard cant see 20 feet across the back yard,4 inches in the last 3 hours:?
the weather net says sunny and cloudy today and tomorrow:?

those weather knobs couldn't forecast "SUNSET", if their life depended on it!:confused:

[GoatGuy]

Elkdom's "little" herd is no different than a thousand other "little" herds that congregate in every stack yard in the Peace region. What do you propose that we do about all the rest of them?
BTW I assume you are aware that elk are by nature a highly social HERD animal that tend to group together wherever there is feed wild or domestic. Perhaps we should be worried about elk wintering ranges up on the Tuchodi and Muskwa as well.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I am worried about elk up the Tuchodi and Muskwa as well as the Bison up the Halfway/Sikanni and their effect on sheep.