Lets talk SHEEP [Archive]

Timbow

06-14-2006, 11:00 PM

Less than one month and half left before I head out. Going in the same area as last but earlier. Last time we timed it with the elk and moose and was successful in getting two elk and no sheep. One hell of a time of packing out meat but it was worth every minute. By going earlier we will avoid hunting other species when the opportunity presents itself.

Bought a new gun for the hunt and upgraded some equipment to allow a lighter pack hunt. Once the sheep hunt is finished I will take the same gear and head out after alpine mule deer in early Sept.

I'm almost as excited about hunting alpine deer as hunting stone sheep.

Tim

CHilko21

06-14-2006, 11:11 PM

I did a lot of following my dad up and down the mountains in the Gang-Ranch, and old Empire-Valley Ranch area, chasing big-horns. Last summer, he and I had planned a stone sheep hunt for my graduation, but we got into a nasty trailer wreck that kind of put things on hold, so hopefully this year we'll be able to chase the stones around

mainland hunter

06-15-2006, 12:27 AM

i'm just waiting to find a hunting partner willing to chase sheep. ive gone once for calli's with no luck but it was a great hunt and would love to do it again but next time for stones, unless i pull a draw.

.270

06-15-2006, 01:00 AM

I’ve never hunted sheep or any alpine critters but would love to get into it. My biggest concern would be the pack out, specially with medium or large game. What’s the trick? Do a lot of people fly in?

Stone Sheep Steve

06-15-2006, 06:54 AM

What’s the trick?

Train your a$$ off with a loaded pack, be prepared for crappy weather, have the patience to wait out that crappy weather, don't take crappy gear into the mtns(especially optics and tent).........and, most importantly.......glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass,glass, glass,glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass!!
And when your eyes are about to fall out of your head.........glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass and glass some more.

Sheephunting is mostly about desire more than ability. If you have the desire and are driven you will be successfull(eventually;) ).
Most people move from one spot to another too quickly. Patience when glassing is critical. Your trip can go from boring and uneventful to the trip of a lifetime in a heartbeat!
Oh, and enjoy the scenery while you're there! It doesn't get much better:-D !

SSS

Maxx

06-15-2006, 07:37 AM

Train your a$$ off with a loaded pack, be prepared for crappy weather, have the patience to wait out that crappy weather, don't take crappy gear into the mtns(especially optics and tent).........and, most importantly.......glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass,glass, glass,glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass!!
And when your eyes are about to fall out of your head.........glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass, glass and glass some more.

Sheephunting is mostly about desire more than ability. If you have the desire and are driven you will be successfull(eventually;) ).
Most people move from one spot to another too quickly. Patience when glassing is critical. Your trip can go from boring and uneventful to the trip of a lifetime in a heartbeat!
Oh, and enjoy the scenery while you're there! It doesn't get much better:-D !

SSS

Very well stated,

bigwhiteys

06-15-2006, 08:37 AM

Going up north again this year with my dad. Went last year for the first time, got to within 70 yards of 13 rams but passed on two rams that were questionable and not really what we were after. Saw lots of sheep though.

Some words of advice from my dad who has over 112 Stone rams on the ground from over 25+ years of guiding them. When you spot Rams Take GOOD landmarks so you can find them again when you get on the mountain. Countless hunters F#%K up on their sheep when making the final stalk because they cannot find them again once they get up there. The scenery changes so drastically. And they either end up spooking them or never seeing the sheep again. This is the one point my dad really drives home.

Also always try and approach the sheep from above, avoiding the sentry ram (if there is one and there usually is) If you get spotted by the young sentry and spook him kiss your sheep goodbye for that day. By coming from above you are essentially eliminating your threat as a predator. As sheeps predators rarely come from above (aside from eagles). Any of the sheep we stalked last year couldn't care less about us once we were above them we got as close as 10 yards from one ram.

The #1 thing with sheep is you need to have patience. Don't rush into situations. You're in unforgiving country. I learned the hard way last year when my hunting partner and I sent one of our pack horses over a cliff after taking a wrong trail. Cleaning up that mess took two days out of our sheep hunt.

When I called my dad to let him know what had happened to our horse his exact words were "So what in the F$&K are you telling me? Your sheep hunts over?" then he said... "I woulda shot that horse in the F$%King head and continued onto camp!" He's a little rougher around the edges than I.

He couldn't figure out why I even had called him. But he did come up and get us back on track.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Krico

06-15-2006, 12:21 PM

Hey BigWhiteys, with all that experience does your old man have any tricks for judging those horns? I found this rather difficult on my first sheep hunt.

bighornbob

06-15-2006, 01:00 PM

Unless you have sheep hunted a lot I would stay away from trying to count growth rings. It is really tough and even a room full of experienced sheep hunters holding the horns will come up with a difference in three years, let alone trying to count moving animals through the spotter.

I can not stress this enough, if you have not hunted sheep lots or held them in your hands judge legality by the bridge of the nose and not age.

Your dream hunt and kill may come crashing down with your sheep being confiscated and you paying a fine and not being able to hunt sheep for 3 years (region 7) because you mistakenly killed a young sheep.

BHB

bigwhiteys

06-15-2006, 01:11 PM

BHB,

I kind of agree/disagree with you there... But maybe thats because I've been taught how to age Sheep by someone who knows how. There are 7 year old stone rams that go above the bridge of the nose.

I personally found it easier to judge the rings at 70 yards then I did judging above the bridge of the nose as we were also at a steep angle above the rams making it difficult to tell for sure but easy to count rings.

I would just as soon try and use both methods if I could but then again I am looking for a 10,11 or 12 year old ram. I want an old campaigner.

In the end if you're still unsure DO NOT pull the trigger. It's not worth it.

Here is a pic of my Dad and his friend with the pair of Rams they got in the late 90's (I forget which year).

http://www.carlsorensen.com/hunting/dadsram2.jpg

Which one do you think is the bigger ram? They were 1st and 3rd harvested for that specific year. These rams were in a bunch with 27 other rams.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Maxx

06-15-2006, 01:37 PM

Now that is a great pic- I would say that the ram on the right is longer, although by score, they might be close,

I also agree that trying to age sheep if you are new at it is foolish, it is too difficult , and not worth the risk. Make sure that the horn breaks the nose, if it is "close", don't shoot!

IMO- It is not that difficult to tell if a ram is 8 or better (and doesn't break the nose) once you have looked over quite a few sheep. They will for the most part carry more weight to the tips, and/or be heavier at the tips than a young ram. A 6 or 7 year old sheep might have good weight to the 3/4 mark, but the last 1/4 will be "light" ( lamb tipped)

Bottom line- Don't shoot unless you are sure that 1 side breaks the nose line!

youngfellla

06-15-2006, 01:39 PM

The one on the left will score higher, but the one on the right is wider tip to tip and looks bigger.:-D

bigwhiteys

06-15-2006, 01:45 PM

You are correct! It's pictures like these that really get me going. I would give my left nut to shoot either of those rams. I surf the outfitters sites and look at all their ram pics too there are some real dandies out there for sure.

Hopefully we'll all get onto rams where aging or judging is pointless it's just "Holy S$iT" and get ready... lol... I've seen some whitetails like that :)

Happy Hunting!
Carl

bighornbob

06-15-2006, 03:37 PM

BW

You are right that one should look at both age and horn length. If you are looking for a 10 year old ram then yes aging is fine. My comments were based on new people going up there. A lot of new sheep hunters are brain washed by the US magazines that any ram is a trophy and guys will shoot the first sheep they see if its full curl regardless if the thing is only 5 years old. The US magazines are usually showing rams that have been guided for (a guide judge legality) or a US killed sheep that is usually a draw where any ram can be taken.

I have no problem with guys doing that and by no means is that not a trophy. But the new hunters are more tempted to shoot one like that especially if they have gone a few years without seeing a ram and spending big money on a boat or plane trip.

Its these new sheep hunters asking about counting rings over the net and guys showing pictures on how to do it that gives me shivers. Like I said I can just see some new sheep hunter think he is on top of the world and having his ram get confiscated becuase what he thought was a growth ring was a false anulai (sp).:frown:

It is always great to get help iover the net but I see counting rings over the net the same as learning to fly a plane by reading a book.

All the new sheep hunters should try to get their hands on as many sheep horns as possible and try counting the rings. A taxidermist is a great place to do this. They also probably know the gae of them so one can compare.

On a side note I will be hunting bighorns this year. If I dont get my ashnola draw I will spend a few weekends at Spences then go to the East Kootenays for the last weekend of the season.

BHB

bigwhiteys

06-15-2006, 03:57 PM

BHB,

I understand what you're saying about a beginner trying to age sheep in the field and someone trying to teach them how online it could lead to a nightmare. I was taught on real sheep horns.

Do you age sheep using the same method, tip to first prominent ring is 3 years of age and then go from there?

Forgot to add, a few years ago on our way up north deer hunting we were coming through the fraser canyon just before spences bridge when we saw sheep on a slide across the river right above the railroad tracks. We stopped to glass and it was one ram with 3 ewes and he was a HAWG. We watched him for quite a while before continuing on our way.

After I get my Stone down then it's onto Bighorns for me too so I can complete a Grand Slam between myself, my dad (dall, stone) and my Grandpa (desert bighorn) and then maybe one day I'll get the full slam for myself.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

kutenay

06-15-2006, 04:01 PM

This has been one of the most informative, simple bloody useful threads on any forum that I have ever read. I have backpack sheep hunted only three times, once for Stone's, once for Calis and once for Rockies. I found barely legal rams each time, but, preferred not to kill one as hunting, to me, is not just about killing and I want only a real buster on my wall, or, a few photos showing the hunts.

I am going for Rockies this year and am training as hard as I can, but, I totally agree that DESIRE is the major factor in ANY, especially alpine hunting. I also think that a really decent, mature male of any big game species taken on public land by a backpacking hunter, non-guided, is one hell of a trophy and I applaud those, like BW, who will hold out for the once-in-a-lifetime trophy, that's REAL sportsmanship.

I am going to try for the "B.C. Slam" from now until I hit 65 in 2011 and I can certainly benefit from the sound advice on this thread, thanks all.

BOOMSTICK

06-15-2006, 05:28 PM

Carl - I like to judge the sheep the same as you. Nice pics of the rams too. Kinda small though.:grin:

I'll be heading out sheep hunting this august as well, up into the trench, prepared to spend 2 or 3 weeks if I need to. Good luck to all the sheep hunters!

.270

06-15-2006, 05:57 PM

Train your a$$ off

Thanks for the info Steve and the other guys too, great info!

Can anyone suggest a good book for a sheep hunter wannabe, preferably something specific to BC? Unfortunately I don’t know anyone who sheep hunts so I have to learn it all the hard way.:redface:

This is the part that I can’t get my head around, how do you know which mountain to climb, do you glass first or do you look for specific terrain? Do you 4x4 or quad as far up as you can then start your hike up the mountain? How fast must you get down to avoid meat spoilage specially when hunting in august.

BOOMSTICK

06-15-2006, 06:56 PM

This is the part that I can’t get my head around, how do you know which mountain to climb, do you glass first or do you look for specific terrain? Do you 4x4 or quad as far up as you can then start your hike up the mountain? How fast must you get down to avoid meat spoilage specially when hunting in august.

Sheep hunting can involve many different things. Much of it consists of flying into a lake, packing in with horses, sometimes you can use a quad to haul into base camp, and even ride it up high to start glassing if the terrain is manageable and not too steep. Most prefer to base camp at a lake if possible. If your base camp is in a good location, start glassing from there. Sometimes you have to hike up to a good vantage point to be able to glass some more of the mountain range.

I usually pack in with horses to base camp, get up high and start glassing. If I can;t spot any, I'll load up my pack for 3-4 days in the mountains, and continue on further in, and keep glassing. Just keep glassing, keep moving, getting to different vantage points and get a good look at as much of the area as you can. Sometimes sheep can be tricky to spot, but you'll get the knack of it pretty quick. You can usually see their big white rump patch as it stands out fairly well in the rocks.

Sheep hunting in August is usually pretty warm. Once I get my sheep, I pack her up and get home. Take some game bags/cheesecloth with you. Spoiled sheep meat is almost enough to make a guy cry:-D

slyfox

06-15-2006, 06:57 PM

Id say if your going sheep hunting for the first time you should go with someone that has hunted them before if you have that oppion.I also think that BHB is right a new hunter should not count rings it hard for a guy that has hunted sheep for years when i shot my ram i was looking at him for 2 hours at 100 yards with a swarovski spotting scope with a friend that has hunted sheep for years and has taken 10 rams and it was hard to count the rings on him and he turned out to be 9 and i thought it was 8 only.Shit a 7 year old ram can play games with a guys mind at 200 yards when your trying to count rings on him so id say look for a full curl or go with someone that has gone before it will help you learn the terrain and what to look for and save you a lot of time.Good luck to all you guys looking for that big ram all this sheep talk is killing me ill be looking for rams in reg3 if i dont get the draw for reg 8.

willy442

06-15-2006, 08:16 PM

Usually if you have to study a ram to make him legal, he's not. A good 8+ year old ram will be easy to judge even if he is broomed. One of the first tell tale signs of age is how rough the front of the horns are at the bases. If you find a ram that has extremly rough bases it's a good bet he's worth taking a better look at. This is when you should get closer and after checking him out again for age and full curl, make your decision on shooting. To those of you who prefer not to age sheep! Some of the best scoring sheep out there are heavily broomed rams that must be aged to determine legality

Some advice to early August sheep hunters. Do your traveling, glassing and hunting from 5 to 9 am. This is when spotting is the best, sheep are usually out on the grassy slopes. They will move up or across into the rocks and lay in the shade fighting flies etc through the heat of the day, maybe getting up and turning around in thier beds or feeding a little. The late morning to afternoon is a good time to climb and get on top as most sheep are not going to move until 4pm or later. This is also a perfect time to make a stalk if you have sheep located. Most of all don't pull the trigger unless you are sure of what you are looking at.

Last but not least, SHEEP ARE NOT ON ALL MOUNTAINS. If and when you locate rams, have a look at the mountain. You will find grass with cliffs not far off. This is where sheep feel safe. Look for more of the same and you will eventually find the ram of your dreams.

Happy Hunting from an old sheep guide.

Krico

06-15-2006, 08:43 PM

Counting sheep didn't seem to help me sleep last night. Perhaps tonight I should count fuzzy ones without horns...

willy442

06-15-2006, 08:46 PM

Make sure you have Velcro gloves and gum boots lol

todbartell

06-15-2006, 08:47 PM

everyone loves pics

here's a pic of a nice Stones shot 2 years ago

http://usera.imagecave.com/ws6/Pictures806.jpg

.270

06-15-2006, 08:53 PM

Nice ram! Am I right to count 8 rings?

bigwhiteys

06-15-2006, 08:59 PM

.270,

You can count 8 rings but I think that ram is 10-11 years old. Start from the tip back to the first prominent ring and it's 3 years. By the time you get to the base you should be at 10.

Here is a little diagram I whipped up. See the difference between false and true annuli?

http://www.carlsorensen.com/hunting/ramage.gif

No question that would be a dumper. It's a nice ram.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

todbartell

06-15-2006, 09:00 PM

http://usera.imagecave.com/ws6/Pictures805.jpg

Krico

06-15-2006, 09:08 PM

Make sure you have Velcro gloves and gum boots lol

Finally some good advice on "scoring" with sheep:-D

Firebird, that is a sweet Ram! Congrats!

slyfox

06-15-2006, 09:32 PM

Hey bigwhitey i just counted my ram like the way you side and it worked i get 9 years and thats what he is.

bigwhiteys

06-15-2006, 09:37 PM

Slyfox,

Thats the right way to age sheep. It really isn't as difficult as some may think... Especially if the ram is a decent ram to begin with... See how you can get to 6 years of age and that ram of firebirds still has plenty of horn left to go?

If you can make it to 6 with that much horn left to go there is absolutely NO question it's an old ram.

And thats how I was taught by an old sheep guide ;)

Happy Hunting!
Carl

livingston

06-15-2006, 09:44 PM

Beautiful animal and looks like beautiful country!

Firebirdthat ram has the same not so toothy smile as you:-D

todbartell

06-15-2006, 10:25 PM

cant lay claim to this ram boys!, my friend (pictured) shot in on a fly in hunt in Sept of 04 ;)

.270

06-15-2006, 10:32 PM

Thanks Slyfox, that was a great explanation with the diagram.

bigwhiteys

06-15-2006, 10:38 PM

.270,

Your welcome. And it's Bigwhiteys ;)

Carl

.270

06-15-2006, 10:47 PM

Sorry bigwhiteys:oops: I guess I should go to bed now.

One ram,two ram,three ram...

Stone Sheep Steve

06-16-2006, 05:08 AM

First let me say those are 3 awesome rams!

That last one has some of the easiest annuli to decifer that I've ever seen.

BW-While I agree your position of the annuli, and most likely the final age, I would call the first most prominent ring 2 1/2 years. Stone sheep rams have lamtips that are ALWAYS under 2" and are hard to see. Excuse my unprofessionalism:oops: but I've added in the lambtips(6 months) and and the 1 1/2 yr annuli.
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/ramage.gif

I get the same result because you need to add one more year from the last annuli to the base of the horn. Given the late season cape and the maturity of that ram I wouldn't be surprized to find one more annuli hiding under the hair that we can't see.
I get 10 1/2 or 11 1/2 if there is one more annuli that we can't see.

For all of those looking for a mature ram like BW a "quick" field judging technique is to look for at least 3 annuli from the ear to the base of the horn. On this guy you can easily see four for sure if his ears were forward and not "relaxed";) .

Do the hunter and the hunted have the same same dentist or maybe the same father? Sorry, I couldn't help but notice.

SSS

Walksalot

06-16-2006, 05:27 AM

I have never hunted sheep but can see now why good quality opics are a must.

willy442

06-16-2006, 06:03 AM

I think you are splitting hairs here and probably confusing what is actually a very simple proccess. As for the three years between the base and the ear. This falls into the same catagory as the rough bases as you can see on this ram. It could be a good reason to get closer and have a better look, not a form of ageing to rely on. Again be positive before shooting.

Krico

06-16-2006, 07:17 AM

I have never hunted sheep but can see now why good quality opics are a must.

Wish I could afford the Swarovski or Leica binos :-?. The Bushnell Legends will have to do for now.

bwhnter

06-16-2006, 08:32 AM

Last Aug when we went on our sheep hunt we spotted the ram that I shot and another ram laying on the skyline. When I started sheep hunting a friend of mine that has hunted sheep for years told me never to sky line myself because you can be seen for miles. Well the same goes for the sheep while you are glassing keep an eye on the sky line because sometimes they will lay out there so that the wind keeps the bugs off.

Also would also recomend that you take a good hard look at your gear before you go in I tried to "get on more year" out of a backpack that was just too comfortable to replace and I paid the price when one of the shoulder straps broke on the way down the mountain.

Good luck to all and shoot straight.

bighornbob

06-16-2006, 08:35 AM

I agree with how SSS has counted the ram. The first ring for me is usually the 1.5 year ring. And most times there is another ring hidden under the hair. This is only true on older rams. You should also look at the spacing of the rings. There is usually a gradual decline in the distance between the rings as the ram gets older. First couple of years may be 4 or 5 inches apart and when you get closer to the head it may be only a centimeter between rings. This is usually ther rule but I have seen rams that had a bad growing year or were sick or something and only grew an inch of horn inbetween a couple of good years.

A great book for the sheep hunter (experienced or not) is by Tony Russ Sheep hunting in Alaska. It is the closest thing to BC and the guy knows his stuff. ALso his book The Guide to Successful Hunters is worth buying too.

Sheep are where you find them. Most of my bighorn hunting in the Kootenays is done from glassing from roads. I personally know of 3 rams that have died within 300m of a good dirt road (not Atv trail). A lot of guys think sheep are in the most god forsaken terrain imaginable and sometimes they are. But when you get guys up in the alpine and horses moving through there etc the sheep will adapt and move accordingly. They may be on the same mountain but a lot further down then one would ever look. Most have heard of timber rams (rockies) and buck brush rams (stones). These are rams that have descended off the tops of the mountains and into the cover of trees and willows to escape the crowds above. Hence the reason for Stone Sheep Steves saying glass, glass, glass,glass,glass,glass,glass,glass,glass,glass,gl ass,glass,glass,glass,glass. This not just the nice grassy slopes but everything that is within eyeshot.

BHB

bigwhiteys

06-16-2006, 09:00 AM

SSS & BHB,

The 3 years technique was shown to me by my old man who guided sheep for more then 25 years so I trust it gets the job done and it's easy math when you're in the field. It's also very accurate from what I've seen. I am sure both methods will bring one to the same conclusion though.

The last thing I want to do is worry about 1/2 years in the field. While there might be one more annuli under the hair if you can make it to 9 or 10 there is no need to count the additional rings until that ram is dead :)

If you need that last ring(s) to make him legal I would look for another Ram.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Stone Sheep Steve

06-16-2006, 09:12 AM

BW
I know for sure you guys know what you are talking about and looking at. You can't argue with that kind of experience8-) . Sometimes the 1 1/2 yr annuli is fairly prominent and I wouldn't want a novice sheep hunter calling it 3 years and end up dumping a short 7 yr old ram think he was 8.
Just trying to be cautious for the less experienced guys/gals out there.

SSS

bigwhiteys

06-16-2006, 09:24 AM

SSS,

I understand where you're coming from now! :)

Carl

palmer

06-16-2006, 10:17 AM

So for glassing are the swarovski spotting scopes worth the money....cause if you are spotting for hours you need good stuff. or can you go with cheaper stuff...

Stone Sheep Steve

06-16-2006, 10:42 AM

Gateholio

06-16-2006, 12:16 PM

If you REALLY like hiking buy the cheaper stuff:rolleyes: . Good optics will not only allow you to age a ram much easier they can save you a lot of hiking if you spot rams off in the distant. Wasting a whole day closing the distance on a bunch of dinks really cuts into your effective hunting time.
Buy the best optics you can afford if you're going to committ to sheep hunting. Make payments if you have to. You won't regret it.

SSS

Even though I am a novice sheep hunter (bought my first sheep tag last year, missed my first ram last year, too:oops: ) I copmpletley agree with this.

Last year I had *good* optics- B&L Discoverer binos, Bushnell Elite Spotting scope- This year I will have *great* optics- Leica Ultravids and a Ziess Spotter...:cool:

Using these good optics is such a huge pleasure, too.:wink:

willy442

06-16-2006, 12:20 PM

I found the German optic's to be a little clearer but heavier than some of our North American stuff. However usually in the mountains, heat waves are the biggest problem with clarity. Myself I would spend the money on binoculars and probably go to a bushnell spacemaster with 15 to 45 variable eye piece or similar for a scope. This is what I used for many years and still have for mountain hunting, it is small, light and decent optics. I do use Ziess for binoculars and when looking in lower light conditions while deer hunting, I prefer thier scope also. Note!!! There are very few instance's when you can use more than 45 power, while sheep hunting, so don't think more power is better. Also a good solid tripod is a must for steadiness. I like one without telescoping legs only because they are steadier and you can usually find a rock or something to set them on to get above the buck brush.

willy442

06-16-2006, 12:32 PM

SSS

If you look at the aging done by BW, it would be extremly difficult to confuse the 1 1/2 year annuli with the three year annuli. Also if you look and think about it, the lamb tip is 1/2 year, the 1 1/2 year ring is never as prominent as the 2 1/2 year ring and would not be reconizeable by a novice unless very close. Lastly the other 1/2 year that is usually concealed at the base complete's the aging to the 3year annuli. You may disagree with this and each to thier own. I only try, with my many years of experiance hunting Stone Sheep, to keep what can be a very difficult decision, sometimes in the spur of a moment, as simple as possible.

Stone Sheep Steve

06-16-2006, 01:50 PM

Our different aging techniques are different but will give the same results. I gave an example of how a biologist would age sheep. There are rams that have prominent 1 1/2 yr annuli.
I have friend that only counts the spaces between the annuli and we also gets the same results. PO-TAY-TOE, POT-TAH-TOE.
It all works for me;) .

SSS

Maxx

06-16-2006, 02:14 PM

I also find it easier to count the "pie" between the rings, that is the way that I was taught,

I also agree that the 1 1/2 age ring is usually obvious, or at least common sense tells you were that is,

As for a spotting scope, while I agree that 60x is not usable at all times, I would never again buy a scope that did not have 60x. ( I have a fl65 zeiss 15x45)

IMO, for sheep hunting, the 60x , can be the difference between a long walk for nothing or saving all that time to get closer to the sheep. It is not neccesary for close up viewing, it is the long distances ( 6-10km) that it is required. Hunting deer and elk is different, then 45x is good enough for me,

I have tested head to head, on the same day, in cloudy weather conditions the following scopes

fl 65 zeiss, 45x ( 2 years old)
Swarovski 60x ( 80mm model, 10 years old)
Swarovski HD 60x ( 65mm) New,

With my father as a second opinion, this is what we found,

1) At close distances ( 1-4km), there was virtually no difference in the ability to distinguish objects, looking at a microwave tower 3 km's away, 60x did not make a difference. All the scopes were very clear, I liked the "clarity" of the New Swarovski, my father felt the Zeiss was clearer,

2) At longer distances, ( approx 8km), it was blatantly obvious to both of us that the 45x Zeiss did not have the ability to pick up fine detail, we were looking at various sizes of large rocks,

3)at that distance, between the older and newer Swarovski, it was very close- At this time of the day the 80mm did not make a difference- perhaps at dawn and dusk it would have. We both agreed, that for definition, the new HD Swarovski was better ( as it should be, it is new technology)

4) weight wise, the Zeiss and the New swarovski were at 3 pounds+-, the old Swarovski was 4.2 pounds ( heavy, but I have carried that pig up quite a few mountains)

For me, If I ever buy another scope, it would be a new Swarovski 60x HD. For lesser money, I have looked through a B&L and was impressed, and I have heard good things about Nikon's,

willy442

06-16-2006, 02:43 PM

Maxx If you can see a sheep in the rocks at 6-10 km in August, you are far better at spotting than I ever was or will be. I rest my case.

Krico

06-16-2006, 02:59 PM

This question is for all you experienced sheep guides/hunters. If you had to choose between high end binos and a mid range spotter or vice versa, which would it be and why? I am in the process of saving up for some better glass, just wondering what your choice would be. High end binos for all day glassing, or a high end spotter for those closer looks?

youngfellla

06-16-2006, 02:59 PM

Here's a decent read on Thinhorns -

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/thinhorn.pdf

Stone Sheep Steve

06-16-2006, 04:01 PM

You may not be able to pick a ram out of the rocks at 6-10kms away but a 60x high quality spotter can help you see lamtips while they're feeding on a grassy patch.
This is what exactly what happenned to us in 2004. My partner picked up some rams feeding on a grassy patch at 6.8 kms away. My old 15-45x60mm Nikon was not quite enough. We could see one of them looked decent but could not be too sure. It took us over a day to get there as we had to go a long ways around.
I upgraded to a Swaro 20-60x65mm HD the next year and after using it in the same country last year , without a doubt, it would have been enough scope to tell for sure if that ram was good enough to go after.

Krico-I would go with the high end binos FIRST as that's what your eyes will mostly be looking through. Upgrade your spotter later when you can.

SSS

quadrakid

06-16-2006, 04:30 PM

i,ve only hunted sheep in my dreams,awesome thread,thank you all.

slyfox

06-16-2006, 07:05 PM

I think you need good binos and a good spotting scope for sheep hunting.SO guys what kind of sheep would you guys take first if you had a choice.It would be a dall for me.

palmer

06-16-2006, 08:21 PM

stone or a dall or even fannin for me

Krico

06-16-2006, 10:00 PM

Withing B.C. I plan to pursue Stones, Rockies, Dall's then Calis in that order.(and yes I know it will likely take decades if I manage to do it at all!) If I could hunt ANY sheep species it would be Argali or Marco Polo. A 60"+ ram would be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

palmer

06-19-2006, 08:00 PM

So has anyone put in there LEH for the Grand Forks sheep. I saw four dandies today...I an sure they would make BC book....wish i had my camera...

1/2 slam

06-19-2006, 09:10 PM

bigwhiteys

06-19-2006, 09:39 PM

I hope to get a Stone Sheep then a Rky Mtn. Bighorn then Dall then California Bighorn. I figure that will keep me busy long enough so that when I am in my 30's or 40's I'll be able to afford to hunt Desert Bighorns :)

Argali would be cool but I don't see that happening. Way too much still left for me to hunt here in BC.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Krico

06-19-2006, 10:00 PM

Krico,

A Marco Polo is an argali.There are also Severtzov's,Bukharan, Hume's, Karelin's, Littledale's, Hein's, Sair, Tibetan and Altai...to name a few. Some have been re classified. The largest sheep in the world is the Altai Argali. I'm sure that's the one you were refering to.:wink:

I knew that the Altai Argali was the biggest, but was under the impression Marco Polo were a different species, like comparing Stone's to Rockies. Now I know:oops:

Stone Sheep Steve

06-20-2006, 06:58 AM

Just have my Dall left to go for my BC Slam. Then it will be time to upgrade or maybe start over with archery:roll: . Unfortunately it's not going to happen this year:cry: .
Doubt I'll ever go for my Desert but you can do it unguided so you never know.

SSS

palmer

06-20-2006, 08:44 AM

SSS....if you get a chance would love to see some pics of those sheep...get the blood running....

Stone Sheep Steve

06-20-2006, 09:21 AM

SSS....if you get a chance would love to see some pics of those sheep...get the blood running....

Palmer
I like to post pics almost as much as I like to look at everyone elses' BUT I've been guilty in the past of giving away our location on more than one occassion:oops: . Partner's were none too pleased with me:evil:!
I've vowed to keep a lower profile on this site.

Here we go again:roll: .....here's a pic from last's year's stone hunt "two days deep" for sheep. I didn't take my ram close to this location so it shouldn't cause any grief for me.
Hope this feeds the fever
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/CopyofStone20050251-copy.jpg

SSS

Ridge-Runner

06-20-2006, 03:19 PM

Great post, lots of good information!

Congratulations Steve on obtaining three of the sheep to complete the BC Slam, that's quite a feat. I would think that harvesting all four is quite rare and difficult too accomplish, and most likely the hardest accomplishment for any resident hunter to acquire! I have heard of a few that have three of the species and sub-species, but not many with all four. Do you guys know of many that have successfully completed the coveted BC Slam?

PS Steve how about some pictures of your sheep at home so there is no worries of giving away secret spots? My hats off to ya, and good luck on your last one, may the Red Gods be with you.

Cheers, RR

Stone Sheep Steve

06-21-2006, 06:27 AM

Here you go Ridge Runner.
It all started out with "outhouse luck" with my Rocky and has continued from there.
Don't ask why my Cali isn't mounted. I'm a little sensitive about it:roll: .
I still have to look for some "discrete" pics of my Stone as he's still at the Taxidermist's.
If I had to chose just one to hunt it would be Stone's. The country they live in and their ability to dissappear/reappear in makes them very challenging. Just wished I lived closer to them.
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/Picture023.jpg

http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/Picture022.jpg

http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/Picture011.jpg

SSS

Ridge-Runner

06-21-2006, 06:41 AM

Right on Steve, those are nice looking sheep, the cali has some nice weight, and the Rocky has really good lenght. Hopefully you'll be able to hunt your Dall's sheep soon. Still just wondering how many hunters have completed the BC Slam, your almost there and I'm sure you'll finish it. I feel this is the hardest combination to acquire, hunting different sheep in different habitats, that are located 100's of miles apart. Hunting these sheep shows true grit and the ability of a hunter. Congratulations again!!Cheers, RR

Maxx

06-21-2006, 06:54 AM

Great Pic's Steve, thanks for sharing.

Stone Sheep Steve

06-21-2006, 09:14 AM

Go figure...my rocky is the smallest but at least they've gotten bigger with each one:rolleyes: . Like I said, I've got room to upgrade. At least my wife said I could put as many rams on the wall as I wanted. That challenge should keep me going for a few more years8-) .
I know of one guy from OK Falls that has his BCslam but I don't know him personally. I've got a few friends with BC half slams including some Dall's so I've got access to some good info when the time comes.

My advice is to chase the thinhorns first while your body is still young. Then go for bighorns but keep putting in for any draws that you need as time may run out before you get drawn:sad: .

SSS

palmer

06-21-2006, 09:56 AM

great pics....gotta love living in BC...just buy a tag and go sheep hunting....We do live in one of the greatest places on earth...

Stone Sheep Steve

06-21-2006, 12:13 PM

We do live in one of the greatest places on earth...
I have to disagree with you on this one Palmer. We live in "THEE" geatest place on Earth:D ! Nothing remotely compares not to BC. Not even Alaska!
I feel sorry for the people that live in this great province and don't partake in the outdoors. Oh well, all the more space for us!8-)

SSS

palmer

06-21-2006, 02:42 PM

I have to disagree with you on this one Palmer. We live in "THEE" geatest place on Earth:D ! Nothing remotely compares not to BC. Not even Alaska!
I feel sorry for the people that live in this great province and don't partake in the outdoors. Oh well, all the more space for us!8-)

SSS

Ok Maybe a tie...cause some places in Africa and Russia are also great for hunting....but for overall living Canada is #1

gollum257

06-21-2006, 03:33 PM

To all you sheep hunting beginers there was one thing in here mentioned by someone regarding the easy to spot white rumps of sheep but remember one very important thing when glassing .Sheep are bedded 80% of the time so remember> & enjoy.

Stone Sheep Steve

06-21-2006, 03:34 PM

palmer

06-21-2006, 03:37 PM

man I just love looking at sheep...must be some scottish in me somewhere....now wheres that kilt

bruno

06-21-2006, 05:10 PM

man I just love looking at sheep...must be some scottish in me somewhere....now wheres that kilt
Don't forget you're gum boots and velcro gloves! :lol: :lol:

youngfellla

06-21-2006, 06:15 PM

Don't forget you're gum boots and velcro gloves! :lol: :lol:

Hey, sometimes the sheep just need a little help through the fence, that's all :lol:;)

Krico

06-21-2006, 10:30 PM

willy442

06-22-2006, 02:52 PM

I couldn't find a "discrete" pic of my Stone ram but I did find this video clip of him. It was taken a couple of days before Aug 1. Just goes to show you getting in early can pay off. It did take some effort to find him again;) .
http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h281/StoneSheep/?action=view&current=Cap0016MPG.flv

SSS

Maybe your taxidermist can take a photo for you. He would probably love the chance at showing off his walls.;-) Nice video though, it could be anywhere in the North alot like the mountain scene in your earlier post. I used to hate to let out my favorite spots also, but someone will always find them.

bwhnter

06-22-2006, 04:09 PM

willy442

06-22-2006, 05:19 PM

I now officially have sheep fever. Spent 1.5 hours last night rummaging through my piles of gear and loaded my pack for sheep hunting, less the freeze dried food and rifle. Strapped it on tonight and hiked about 6km(which I'm used to, just without the weight). Will continue to increase the weight and distance over the summer until the real thing on Sept 1.

Krico: Slow down man being to excited, will cause you to miss the important little things when it comes to sheep hunting. Like patience to do enough glassing, seeing whats in your glasses and the two most important sticky gloves and gum boots.:lol:

Stone Sheep Steve

06-22-2006, 05:35 PM

Maybe your taxidermist can take a photo for you. He would probably love the chance at showing off his walls.;-) Nice video though, it could be anywhere in the North alot like the mountain scene in your earlier post. I used to hate to let out my favorite spots also, but someone will always find them.

I'll work on the pic of my Stone. As I'm sure you can tell from the video he's certainly no monster but he was pretty much what I was looking for in my first stone. Maybe for my second one I'll look for something with some good age on him. My taxidermist is still "balls deep" in bears so it's a bit messy over there. He should have them cleaned up pretty soon.

I know of at least two people on this site that I've crossed boot tracks with in those mountains but didn't know it until after the fact. The hunting world is small but the sheephunting world is unbelievably small. I believe one of them is there laying more tracks right now as he's a guide for the outfitter in the area. Both those guys are true tight-lipped sheephunters so I have no worries with either of them;) -I have to worry about myself a helluva lot more than them!:redface:

SSS

Krico

06-22-2006, 06:52 PM

Krico: Slow down man being to excited, will cause you to miss the important little things when it comes to sheep hunting. Like patience to do enough glassing, seeing whats in your glasses and the two most important sticky gloves and gum boots.:lol:

No worries, the velcro mitts and gumboots will be worn full time, for a quicker reaction time:wink: And trust me, the legs could use a little work ahead of time, as my job requires me to spend most of the day sitting on my ass:???:

Stone Sheep Steve

06-23-2006, 05:03 AM

I guess I shouldn't have used the expression "balls deep" with all this talk about velcro gloves, gumboots, kilts and sheep!!:eek:

So what's everyone's preferred hunting methods for spotting thinhorn sheep??? Do you like to climb to a high advantage point and glass or sneak along the bottom and look up. I know it depends on the terrain and circumstances but what is your "preferred" method??

SSS

palmer

06-23-2006, 08:07 AM

I like to get up high and glass and glass....across the valleys...

bigwhiteys

06-23-2006, 08:16 AM

I like to glass the mountains that have sheep on them.

Climb high or sneak along the bottom whatever the terrain will allow.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Macgregor

06-23-2006, 08:57 AM

This will be my first year sheep hunting but I've been told by some experienced sheep hunters to get up high and stay up high and glass. I imagine it will be tricky at times not to skyline ourselves if were always on the top of the mountains. I have a feeling I'm going to do one heck of a lot of learning on this hunt.

palmer

06-23-2006, 09:47 AM

You are going to have nothing but fun.........

GoatGuy

06-23-2006, 11:34 AM

Don't ask why my Cali isn't mounted. I'm a little sensitive about it:roll: .

SSS

That's too bad cause I really felt like poking and proding today!!!! What about that lifesize your buddy had last year????? You could liquidate that spotter - I'll give you $1000 cash for it right now - that should get you started.

If anybody wants to know SSS's secret spots I'll hold a live auction for them! :smile: :smile:

BTW This is a really good thread! I'm definitely not a sheep killer (yet) so this is helping my program.

Stone Sheep Steve

06-23-2006, 02:25 PM

That's too bad cause I really felt like poking and proding today!!!
Broke Back Boy-
I can't blame you for being angry at the world.
Pounding the docks in Rupert peddling your sea cucumber to lonely old fisherman is certainly no way to make a living(even if it does feed your addiction). I hope you took my advice this time to not believe a crusty old fisherman when he says he doen't have crabs in his hatch. A kid of your intelligence can find a better way to make a living but at least from the pics you sent me it appears as though you've found a better group of "clients" this time around.

I really did mess you up that night on the mountain!!!:shock:
As I said before get some therapy.................:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

SSS

Tuffcity

06-23-2006, 02:26 PM

There seems to be a definite lack of dead sheep pictures on this thread, so...

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/451sheep.jpg

Come on lads, shows us your sheep!

RC.

Stone Sheep Steve

06-23-2006, 02:52 PM

Nice ram Tuffcity!
Got a little story to go with it?? What year?... was he with other rams? etc..etc..etc...

SSS

Mountain Monarch

06-23-2006, 03:02 PM

On line bidding for a sheep spot? Obviously you SSS and Goatguy are buddies sharing sheep spots and more. Probably explaining the Brokeback comments.

Great thread and there are some who obviously know what they're doing when it comes to sheep hunting and others don't know what they're getting into.

Keep the great comments on sheep hunting coming.

BIGWHITEYS - you definatly seem to have all the sheep information and hunting spots at the tip of your fingers due to your Dad's guiding and advice giving..........time to turn all that into positive results !!

Gateholio

06-23-2006, 03:33 PM

Broke Back Boy-
I can't blame you for being angry at the world.
Pounding the docks in Rupert peddling your sea cucumber to lonely old fisherman is certainly no way to make a living(even if it does feed your addiction). I hope you took my advice this time to not believe a crusty old fisherman when he says he doen't have crabs in his hatch. A kid of your intelligence can find a better way to make a living but at least from the pics you sent me it appears as though you've found a better group of "clients" this time around.

I really did mess you up that night on the mountain!!!:shock:
As I said before get some therapy.................

SSS

Don't make me get all Moderator on you..........8) ;-)

Tuffcity

06-23-2006, 03:36 PM

SS Steve,

Took him a few years ago. He's a Region 6 ram, we flew into Notellem Lake and then hiked a day into the Zipperlip Range. :)

He was with (IIRC) 6 or 7 other rams of various ages, there was one slightly bigger but I never did see him. Spotted him early one morning across a valley and decided he was worth going after. Finally got him late in the afternoon, shot distance was around a 100 yds.

Horn measurements were 36 & 35 7/8 with 13 1/2 bases.

RC

hitch

06-23-2006, 04:23 PM

I'm trying to post my pic's on this thread but am a bit of an idgit and can only get them into my gallery. Have a look if you like. The little stone is mine and the others are my fathers. Great trips, some of the most memorable ever.:grin:

mainland hunter

06-23-2006, 05:23 PM

nice pics hitch. its unlikely ill get to hunt sheep this year but cant wait to get another crack at it. will have to come back to this thread when my time comes

Stone Sheep Steve

06-23-2006, 07:39 PM

Here ya go Hitch. Nice wall of rams!:cool: REALLY nice Stone and Dall. Looks like that Dall has some nice bases.
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/Boy_s_club.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/Dall.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/Good_stone.jpg

SSS

hitch

06-23-2006, 08:21 PM

Thanks for putting those pics up Steve. I won't be going sheep huntin this year but have plans for 2007.

bwhnter

06-23-2006, 10:40 PM

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Hunting_Pics_005.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2249&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=1384)

I am just trying to post a pic of my ram that I took last year in region 7. See if this works.

willy442

06-23-2006, 11:03 PM

Good Ram. It's nice to see some one get a true trophy quality ram, an old timer with lamb tips. Perfect. Good one.8)

reach

06-24-2006, 12:34 AM

Here ya go Hitch. Nice wall of rams!:cool: Well the rams look nice, but the wall could use some work :-D

Ovis17

06-24-2006, 12:53 AM

Great thread guys. Here's a pic of my 2001 Stone's sheep. (Click on pic to enlarge.)

Ovis17

06-24-2006, 12:56 AM

Here's a pic of another ram I got in 2002............. :)

hitch

06-24-2006, 06:09 AM

Well the rams look nice, but the wall could use some work :-D

Your right, I need to finish the basement still and the wife won't allow any heads upstairs. That room will be my reloading, gunsafe, hunting equipment etc room. I actually just hung them up to put them on this thread. Those heads along with others and rugs are currently just spread throughout my basement.:-x

palmer

06-24-2006, 07:43 AM

Your right, I need to finish the basement still and the wife won't allow any heads upstairs. That room will be my reloading, gunsafe, hunting equipment etc room. I actually just hung them up to put them on this thread. Those heads along with others and rugs are currently just spread throughout my basement.:-x

Forget the house just keep getting those sheep...great looking heads...

Stone Sheep Steve

06-24-2006, 10:46 AM

Here's a picture of a buddy's ram. His partner, who's a former guide, mistakenly passed on him. I'm pretty sure he regretted it.
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/06-24-2006105302AM.JPG

SSS

MB_Boy

06-24-2006, 11:42 AM

I'm really enjoying this thread and thanks for all the pics, tips and info.

SSS....in that pic of your buddies ram on the wall (I am assuming it is the one front and center)......looking at the "rings" and from what I have been reading, what is the age of it?

I have my guess.....but just want to see how far I am off.

Thanks!

bighornbob

06-24-2006, 11:56 AM

Here a couple of sheep that hang on the wall.

http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/100854.jpg

bigwhiteys

06-24-2006, 01:32 PM

MB Boy,

I would say that Ram is 10 years old maybe 11. He is a nice ram.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

MB_Boy

06-24-2006, 02:04 PM

MB Boy,

I would say that Ram is 10 years old maybe 11. He is a nice ram.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

LOL....okay so I have a bit of 'learning' to do....I guessed 11 maybe 12:roll:

Stone Sheep Steve

06-24-2006, 05:16 PM

LOL....okay so I have a bit of 'learning' to do....I guessed 11 maybe 12:roll:
Actually MB you're right on!:grin: . The biologist aged him at 11 1/2 for sure and maybe 12 1/2. Mature ram(ie 10+) and late-season cape usually hides one annuli.

BHB-Nice book-ends you've got there!;-)

SSS

mainland hunter

06-24-2006, 05:28 PM

bighornbob those are beauties.

bwhnter

06-24-2006, 10:44 PM

Some very nice ram pics posted it makes me want to get after those bighorns but I am going to be a pack mule/spotter/camera man for my 2 hunting partners that helped me get my Stone last year.

O.K I have some questions about gear. What kind of pants do you wear if you are hiking into an area? I usually just wear my camo pants but alot of the guys that I have been talking to have started wearing the treking pants because they are lite weight and they dry fast. Has anyone tried this and if so what brand do you use?

Also the threads on the tripod mount for my Nikon spotting scope got stripped and I sent it back to see if they could fix it but it is so old that they said they no longer carry the parts. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I could possibly fix it? (other than the obvious "buy a new one". I already spent this years alotted funds)

bigwhiteys

06-24-2006, 11:17 PM

What kind of pants do you wear if you are hiking into an area?

I bought a pair of North Face Paramount Convertibles (zip off legs) and used them for my hunt last year. I liked them so much I bought two more pairs. They are super lightweight, plenty of useful pockets and they are extremely durable. They also pack down really well, two pairs takes up hardly any space in your pack.

$99.00 a pair at sportcheck and they were on for 25% off thats why I bought two more pairs :)

North Face turns out some fairly decent gear.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Stone Sheep Steve

06-25-2006, 11:33 AM

I've got similar style pants to BW except cheaper. I really like the ones with a swimming style liner so you don't have to put up with sweaty cotton underwear. I've tried using synthetic Misty Mtn underwear but I wasn't a fan-don't ask:redface: . When we got to the top I used the shorts under my quick dry hunting pants and kept it that way for the 14 entire trip. Worked really well.

Awesome ram there bwhnter!!

Here's another friend's ram to keep the fire burning.
He shot this 40" ram from about twenty feet while almost completely surrounded by 19 members from his band. A couple of the other rams scattered when he raised his rifle but this guy never saw it coming:cool: .

http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/020_13A.JPG

SSS

BANG!

06-25-2006, 11:37 AM

Also the threads on the tripod mount for my Nikon spotting scope got stripped and I sent it back to see if they could fix it but it is so old that they said they no longer carry the parts. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I could possibly fix it? (other than the obvious "buy a new one". I already spent this years alotted funds)

If you take the tripod and scope into a metal fabrication workshop, they'll probably be able to sort you out a solution for less than the cost of a flat of beer.

good luck

BANG!

06-25-2006, 11:38 AM

Great thread guys. Here's a pic of my 2001 Stone's sheep. (Click on pic to enlarge.)

Holy schmoly - that's a fine beast!

Mountain Monarch

06-25-2006, 12:45 PM

Bwhnter You need to be careful with who you talk to. Quite a few dudes in the sheep hunting circles know where you shot that ram and the '2nd' drainage where its tougher to get into is well known to have produced big rams in the past. Your buddy isn't the only one you need to worry about being in there. I personally know 4 guys who have hunted where you shot yours a few years back and they are going in July 25th to set up camp in both drainages past the burns (2 guys in each). One of the fellas knows the dude who had told you about that tougher to get to drainage and the fact that Big Game Adventures pictures you submitted were quite revealing off the Kechika River.

The reason they're going in is because as a result of your partners and the guys you talked to in Ft St John, they want to make sure they get the better rams out of there before the rest of the jet boat hunters clean up that spot and then it will be slow for a few years and hunters will quit going in there until another group like yourselves go in and broadcast a 40 inch ram and the traffic starts all over again. Even when I saw the magazine, I was like, "Jeeze dude, thats one photo you should have omitted."

Fantastic ram pictures popping up from all you other sheep nuts and gotta love those bighorn rams !!!

bigwhiteys

06-25-2006, 03:08 PM

Bwhnter You need to be careful with who you talk to. Quite a few dudes in the sheep hunting circles know where you shot that ram and the '2nd' drainage where its tougher to get into is well known to have produced big rams in the past. Your buddy isn't the only one you need to worry about being in there. I personally know 4 guys who have hunted where you shot yours a few years back and they are going in July 25th to set up camp in both drainages past the burns (2 guys in each). One of the fellas knows the dude who had told you about that tougher to get to drainage and the fact that Big Game Adventures pictures you submitted were quite revealing off the Kechika River.

The reason they're going in is because as a result of your partners and the guys you talked to in Ft St John, they want to make sure they get the better rams out of there before the rest of the jet boat hunters clean up that spot and then it will be slow for a few years and hunters will quit going in there until another group like yourselves go in and broadcast a 40 inch ram and

Now this is getting funny... People getting all hot & heavy about their sheep spots. There is PLENTY of sheep to hunt if you know where to go. This "discreet" stuff is bullshit. If someone can identify an area from a photograph it's because THEY ALREADY KNOW THE AREA!

Most of the sheep hunters on here are strictly hunting areas they've been TOLD to hunt by someone who knows better anyways! It's not like any of you "discovered" these little patches or pioneered the areas.

I don't think anyone has stumbled into the motherload of rams so lets not make it out that way.

This really great thread could turn sour really fast.

SS - That's a nice ram your buddy shot!

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Mountain Monarch

06-25-2006, 03:55 PM

[quote=bigwhiteys]Now this is getting funny... People getting all hot & heavy about their sheep spots. There is PLENTY of sheep to hunt if you know where to go. This "discreet" stuff is bullshit. If someone can identify an area from a photograph it's because THEY ALREADY KNOW THE AREA!

Not hot and heavy :-?. Discreet? Did someone try telling you there are "secret" sheep spots LOL.......There's no such thing. There are alot of sheep hunters out there who seem to think they are onto the motherlode. A lesson to be learned: there's no such thing as a secret spot. Someone knows about it and invariably will hunt it.

Most of the sheep hunters on here are strictly hunting areas they've been TOLD to hunt by someone who knows better anyways! It's not like any of you "discovered" these little patches or pioneered the areas.

You are a perfect example of that privelege when your father was a guide / outfitter. No doubt you have lots of good sheep areas to hunt and much of the work involved for sheep hunting has been done for you.

Many hunters don't have that privelege and information and must do it the hard way......actually hunting and learning and studying maps and sometimes years of hunting investment, and maybe, just maybe a loose lipped sheep hunter to help along (which I don't think happens all too often)

I don't think anyone has stumbled into the motherload of rams so lets not make it out that way.

I never said it was a mothelode did I. This is what typically happens in sheep country. You will have a particular drainage rams will call home year after year and often, resident sheep hunters will stumble onto these spots and could, take a nice ram year after year from the same mountain. What happens now, is if it gets hammered by a calvacade of hunters zeroeing in on that band or two for a couple years......the mature rams get shot out. This area dies down and a perhaps a few years later, will again produce a big ram. (( I'm sure your Dad would be able to explain why outfitters / guides spread their harvest so they can return year after year with a client and normally take a ram --- and which is one reason they dislike resident hunters ))

Case in example: if Bwhnter had not advertised his story, with some obvious photos and friends with couple loose lips, he and his friends might have been able to return to this spot for a couple years without the pressure that its 'now' going to get for the next 2 or 3 seasons. Those 4 guys going in there have been there before and have shot a couple dandy rams out of there about 6 years ago. They also know that because a good ram of that calibre has been shot, there will more than likely be a couple more and they're simply taking advantage of that knowledge (from magazine and others etc).

Case in point: a couple years ago, When Cam Lancaster and Scott Eibert shot those 2 booner rams, they came out and hustled right back in with another guy and shot another big ram in the 160's. Rest it a few years and it will likely have another big ram out of there.

This really great thread could turn sour really fast.

I don't think so, it is also educational for those who do hunt or want to hunt sheep.

Happy Hunting

bigwhiteys

06-25-2006, 04:29 PM

Mountain Monarch,

Not hot and heavy :???:. Discreet? Did someone try telling you there are "secret" sheep spots LOL.......There's no such thing. There are alot of sheep hunters out there who seem to think they are onto the motherlode. A lesson to be learned: there's no such thing as a secret spot. Someone knows about it and invariably will hunt it.

Thank you! you said it better than I could! :)

You are a perfect example of that privelege when your father was a guide / outfitter. No doubt you have lots of good sheep areas to hunt and much of the work involved for sheep hunting has been done for you.

Many hunters don't have that privelege and information and must do it the hard way......actually hunting and learning and studying maps and sometimes years of hunting investment, and maybe, just maybe a loose lipped sheep hunter to help along (which I don't think happens all too often)

Your right! I was born with a silver sheep hunting spoon sticking out of my butt. I've been dreaming about getting my own Stone Ram since I was just a little tyke holding a successful hunters Sheep Horns in my hands scrapping all the meat off the skull so I could use it for Dolly bait :)

My Dad has lived in the Fort St. John area for over 50 years. He was born there and if there is any hardcore Stone sheep hunting circles worth getting into I would be incredibly surprised if his name didn't come up once or twice as an excellent source of information.

In all of my Dads years of guide/outfitting he NEVER had a problem with resident hunters. In fact I've never seen him turn away a resident sheep hunter with good intentions who was looking for information on taking his dream Stone ram or his first ram for that matter.

He was confident enough that he had the knowledge, skills and equipment required to out-hunt most residents so sharing the information was never really a problem. And he STILL shares information with people every year going up to hunt stones.

I didn't pick my parents dude. I lucked out and was born into this.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

bigwhiteys

06-25-2006, 05:04 PM

My Dad sent me these with a message.

"Hey Guy's here's some photo's and background that could be recognizable. It took me a lifetime to figure out all this country and if anyone can locate it or knows where it is, maybe I'll have some company around my campfire this year. Be glad to tell a sheep tale or two over a cup of coffee. SEE Ya there."

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep1.jpg

A successful august hunt.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep2.jpg

3 Dream Rams.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep3.jpg

I'd say they cleaned off a mountain there!

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep4.jpg

The biggest ram he ever guided for. 2 different hunters missed this ram in years before. My dad returned with this hunter and took him. There are some awesome stories behind this trophy Ram.

36 days and counting....

Happy Hunting!
Carl

palmer

06-25-2006, 05:15 PM

Mountain Monarch

06-25-2006, 05:16 PM

You're right about all the skills required to hunt the sheep. A group of eager guys can be given information to an area known to have some good rams and they will go in for 2 weeks and not even see one, whereas a fellow who knows what he is doing will go in the same spot and have his rams within a few days.

Those are beautiful photos of rams !! You're one lucky dude, no doubt about that.

Stone Sheep Steve

06-25-2006, 07:00 PM

Egats!! What a pig!!!:shock: :shock: :shock:
BW-Your Dad is a "true living legend"!!

Very cool:cool: !!

SSS

ursus

06-25-2006, 07:01 PM

Here is my 159" Stone Ram.:biggrin:
http://www.lan-lord.net/upload/pics/20060625211904Sheep%202.jpg

palmer

06-25-2006, 07:05 PM

great ram...

bigwhiteys

06-25-2006, 07:14 PM

Nice Sheep Ursus!

Was this a late August or September Ram? He looks a little thick. Maybe it's just the way he is resting in the pic.

SSS,

That ram measured out to 43 7/8" not sure what the bases were. I have to make some corrections to this short story at the request of my dad.

The first hunter my dad got onto this ram missed him SEVEN times at 130 yards. He was shooting downhill and wouldn't listen to my dad about where he should be aiming. As a result he sent 7 bullets over the rams back.

The second hunter the following year had his buddy reload some shells for him which he failed to try in his gun BEFORE going hunting. When he had 100 yard shot on this ram he couldn't load his cartridge and ended up throwing his rifle right off the side of the mountain he was so pissed!

The hunter who did eventually shoot it, was a big talking Big Horn hunter from Montana. He had swindled my Grandpa into doing a "Trade Hunt" Stone Sheep for a Bighorn. My Grandpa agreed and my dad was the guy who guided him. He shot the ram of his life a few days in. He shot the ram at only 35 yards. They had been hiking an area and the hunter wanted to turn around and go to another spot and my dad told him NO they were going up a ways further in the creek to look for sheep tracks. They made it about 50 yards up the creek when three book rams jumped up out of the toulies and this ram was the lead ram.

When it came time to return the favor this guy turned into a flake and screwed my Grandpa & Dad over never delivering the BigHorn hunt. They tried to recover the horns from the guys taxidermist but they had disappeared. That ram adorns someones wall somewhere!

The year before this ram was finally shot, he still had his lamb tips. My dad and the other guide that had pursued him that year figured he would have went close to 49" had he not rubbed them off that winter. He was 13 years old.

I could only hope to get onto and chase a ram like that for 3 years in a row!

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Maxx

06-25-2006, 07:18 PM

WOW Carl, that is some story. For an outfitter to stiff your Dad like that is wild. What a loser. A bit of a shame a ram like that has to go to a loser.

Love the rest of the pics as well, thanks to you and your dad for sharing,

bigwhiteys

06-25-2006, 07:35 PM

Maxx,

Yeah I would have been pretty pissed if it had happened to me! That picture is from 1975! I wasn't even born yet. I do know the hunters name but I doubt he could be tracked down now.

My dad literally has hundreds of sheep/caribou/goat/moose/bear photos but they are not in a digital format, they either have to be scanned or we have to take a digital picture of the picture.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

bwhnter

06-25-2006, 08:44 PM

I sent those pics in after everyone found out where I had been. We were very careful about who we talked to about where we were but one of the fellows that told us about the spot told a friend and so on and so forth. That is why I used those pics in the story and not ones from a couple of yesars ago. And if they want to camp at the mouth of the drainage that is fine because I know a few other places up there that will work just as well. There is alot of country in there and I have no set schedule when I have to be back.

ursus

06-25-2006, 09:36 PM

BW. Your father must have one awesome photo album! He sounds like a first class guy!
My ram was taken early september, and my taxidermist bugs me about not lifesizing this guy everytime we bring it up.

http://www.lan-lord.net/upload/pics/20060625235235Sheep.jpg

bigwhiteys

06-25-2006, 09:49 PM

Ursus,

That is a nice ram, he has a very nice coat on him. Thats the benefit of going in September.

My dad does have several large photo albums full of guiding pics. Here are a few more sheep ones.

This is another pic of the Hog Daddy ram that I posted previously.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep7.jpg

Here is the same Ram with my dad in the pic. He was in his early 20's when he guided this ram. (He did quit smoking a few years ago too)

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep72.gif

Here is a pic from one of the camps, and yet two more stone rams and a mountain goat he guided for.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep9.jpg

Here is a double header. He had a few of these go down over his career including his own Stone ram.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep10.jpg

There is plenty more more if anyone wants to see them.

You can see why I have such a desire to tag one of these critters!

Happy Hunting!
Carl

bigwhiteys

06-25-2006, 09:51 PM

Here is one of my favorites...

This Ram was found by my Grandpa or one of his guides I cannot remember who in a slide. They had the ram full mounted and it sat in my Granparents house for years until some rich yank came along and made an offer my Gramps couldn't refuse I guess. No idea where this sheep is now but it's crazy. I can remember looking at this Ram when I was still in diapers.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep6.jpg

Happy Hunting!
Carl

BCrams

06-25-2006, 10:43 PM

Sweet jeezus........what a guy misses in a couple weeks...........you're not helping us fellow sheep hunters suffering with a sickness you know.

Awsome photos !

mainland hunter

06-25-2006, 10:44 PM

ok im convinced to start sheep hunting (stones) starting in '07, went once for calli's but i gotta start trying for those stones, if for nothing other than the scenery. awesome thread

Stone Sheep Steve

06-26-2006, 06:29 AM

BW-It sounds like your Dad should do some Ethics training in the G/O industry. You've got classy guys like him and on the opposite side of the spectrum you've got G/O's that chase rams out from under residents knowing where they'll go when pressured, buzzing rams with their planes away from residents, telling young hunters that they are not allowed to be hunting in their territory, threatening to burn down camps and many other stories like these. While not all G/O's would do things like this, I've heard too many stories like these to know that these are not isoloated incidents.
Keep the awesome pics coming!:cool:

SSS

Maxx

06-26-2006, 07:28 AM

Carl,

Thanks for sharing all the great pics, I am wiping the drool off my keyboard as I type,

kutenay

06-26-2006, 07:53 AM

This is just a super thread, even for a guy like me with minimal sheep hunting experience. The p*ick who cheated Carl's folks should be hung by the nuts, but, there are good and bad in all groups, hunters, GOs and even ...yanks... Actually, I have found most Americans who come here hunting to be very nice, decent people and a lot of them are just ordinary smucks like us who save for years to afford to hunt here; this shows us how fortunate we really are.

As to the problems referred to by SSS, with GOs, some of the actions he mentions are quite serious criminal offences and I would definitely report them to the RCMP and COs, then go public in the media about it as media attention motivates the bureaucracy to movement. Certainly, a threat to burn down a camp is actionable and interfering with a resident hunter by giving him false info. is also illegal.

I think that the majority of GOs are decent people, however, many of the ones I have met seem to have a proprietory atitude toward their territories, something I find offensive. I certainly would never expect a GO to do anything to assist me when I was exercising my birthright to hunt, legally, in B.C.; however, any attempt to injure me, frighten me with an aircraft, even touch my camp or insult me would result in instant calls to various government officials and then a written article for the "Vancouver Sun".

Now, IF, I witnessed a resident burning a GOs camp or doing anything illegal/destructive to a legal GO operation, I would do exactly the same thing and I would appear as a witness, in court, if required. I have nothing but contempt for anyone who would harass, injure, threaten or destroy the property of a legal hunter OR a GO. We do not agree on many issues and need to find common ground to our mutual advantage, but, decent people do not behave this way and should assist each other to deal with the azzholes who do.....and they sometimes include resident hunters, sad to say.

palmer

06-26-2006, 12:22 PM

WOW there are some great sheep pics on here....and the best part is to hunt sheep here just go a buy a tag....

Krico

06-26-2006, 01:05 PM

Anyone here hunt these things in September? Good or bad experiences then? I understand going in for opening date to get first crack at what you find, but there must be some positives for a September hunt-when browsing GO sites they sure take a lot of rams in September...

one-shot-wonder

06-26-2006, 01:18 PM

This is the best thread I have seen/read in a while....Wow! :-o

I plan on adding another 1/4 working towards the slam, this September when I go for Stones. I have some work to do as I am a few weeks behind schedule on my training, but after seeing all these rams I have new inspiration to get the fraem on my back adn start hiking.....gonna go after work tonight!

I will leave you guys with my first ram.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/One-Shot-Wonder/CaliFrontview.jpg

palmer

06-26-2006, 04:19 PM

Another GREAT ram

Stone Sheep Steve

06-26-2006, 05:19 PM

Okay. The jig is up. Here's another Stone and a guy I know well:wink: with a horseshoe burried somewhere when it comes to sheep hunting. This is the ram from the video I posted earlier in this thread.
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/Copyofsheep2005067.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/Copyofsheep2005070-copy.jpg

SSS:wink:

Stone Sheep Steve

06-26-2006, 05:21 PM

And a heavy pick up
http://usera.imagecave.com/BrentT/Copyofsheep2005048.jpg

SSS

Maxx

06-26-2006, 06:15 PM

A good Ram SSS:lol:

Has anyone actually looked through a Meopta Spotting scope? Any info?

bigwhiteys

06-26-2006, 06:30 PM

Ok, here's a few more from my dad's guiding days.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep5.jpg

Two more rams that he guided for.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/sheep8.jpg

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Maxx

06-26-2006, 06:40 PM

Carl - STOP posting pics like this, I am already having enough trouble sleeping, with you posting pics daily, I may have to quit me job to hunt sheep full time,

Stop it!:-o

livingston

06-26-2006, 07:21 PM

This is an awesome thread great pics and lots of good info.
I am definanitaly going to have to try sheep hunting some day soon, its great to see so many peple so passionate its hard not to get drawn into the excitement of the upcoming season:D

palmer

06-26-2006, 07:44 PM

You guys all rock.....this is great info and advice...I can't wait till August to get back in those valleys

Goathunter

06-27-2006, 07:50 AM

imgp0157.jpg

palmer

06-27-2006, 08:02 AM

Hey SSS are those BC dalls or their brothers to the north...

bigwhiteys

06-27-2006, 10:26 AM

Nice Rams your buddies shot SSS.

My apologies for the ASSumption in the PM. I ******edly sent to you. ;)

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Mountain Monarch

06-27-2006, 11:26 AM

bigwhiteys

There is going to be a huge ASSumption with your sheep hunting now (did your dad guide you or did you do it on your own) ......You have a tall order to fullfil. With your vast information knowledge, one would assume you will get onto super rams. I am sure everyone on this board will keeping their eyes open for you when you return from your second? sheep hunt and a successful one at that.

You should get your dad to guide you to a ram :)

bigwhiteys

06-27-2006, 11:47 AM

MM,

My dad cannot guide me to my ram as he is unable to hike into the mountains with me. It would be nice to have him there though.

I won't be heartbroken if I don't shoot a ram this year. I know what I am looking for and if I don't find it I'll be coming back. It's pretty simple math for me. It took my dad over 25 years to get his big stone (43") and the only one he ever shot for himself.

Patience to hold out for my chosen trophy is something I do have.

Patience to wait for the hunt and get up there...? I am going bloody crazy here... I can't even sleep at night!

I sure hope I find him this year :)

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Stone Sheep Steve

06-27-2006, 12:33 PM

My apologies for the ASSumption in the PM. I ******edly sent to you. ;)

Happy Hunting!
Carl
No worries, Carl. I just hope you addressed your LEH's a little more carefully than you do your PM's:tongue: ;)

SSS

palmer

06-27-2006, 02:38 PM

Hey.........anybody ever shoot a sheep from the road...I heard rumours of one getting took up north right on a logging road.

bigwhiteys

06-27-2006, 02:55 PM

Palmer,

You'd have a tough time shooting a stone from the road legally as the only road I know of that they frequent would be the Alaska Highway. There aren't as many logging roads up in the north east as their is down south or dease lake way.

Bighorns I could believe it. Bighornbob and SSS even mentioned a few that they personally knew of. In spences bridge I've seen it where a local could probably shoot one out their kitchen window if they really wanted!

Happy Hunting!
Carl

hitch

06-27-2006, 03:36 PM

I agree with Carl, not many are taken from the road. However, I've heard that many are not far off the road and most hunters feel the need to fly into remote lakes or jet up remote rivers. Thus leaving the sheep that are close to roads basically to the outfitter in that specific area as there tends to not be much resident hunting happening. I know of a couple of spots that have produced rams that only outiftters are into and they are only a day's hike off the highway.

palmer

06-27-2006, 04:02 PM

This sheep came of the Yedhe(sp.) creek rd just south of Muncho or so the story went...he shoot it right off his Quad...or so he said

BCrams

06-27-2006, 04:04 PM

Hitch

You're wrong in that assumption. The Alaska Hwy is probably the busiest area for Stone's sheep hunting in BC (from the Tetsa River right through Muncho). Believe me, the highway access hunting by residents is absolutly ridiculous at times. Granted though, some years are slower than other years but invariably, just about every drainage off the Alaska Highway has resident hunters during the sheep season at some point and several parties throughout the season in many areas.

As for rams that only outfitters are into ....again you're wrong. There isn't a spot off the highway that isn't known to some resident or other ....... especially the locals in Toad River and Fort Nelson. I know of numerous instances where outfitters and residents have clashed.

I know every single outfitter trail off the highway and believe me, I have seen residents hit every single one of them.

bigwhiteys

06-27-2006, 04:21 PM

BCRams,

Re-read palmers post. He asked if a ram was shot off a road. I answered VERY FEW stones are shot "on a road" legally.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

BCrams

06-27-2006, 05:35 PM

I was mainly responding to hitch's comment

Thus leaving the sheep that are close to roads basically to the outfitter in that specific area as there tends to not be much resident hunting happening.

hitch

06-27-2006, 06:00 PM

Your right BCram most trails between toad and muncho are heavily hunted but there are many other places in BC than just that stretch to hunt sheep and definately some are hunted but many are passed by enroute to a river or an airstrip for access. I think many of us agree, that there really aren't any SECRET sheep spots. Over the years residents and outfitters alike have made there way into most areas of the province.;)

goathead

06-27-2006, 07:12 PM

Man this is the best thread I have read. Great stories and pics Its time to get into gear and start planning for stones I went for callis once and it was awesome.Thanks everyone for sharing their stories.

Hunter's Dad

06-27-2006, 07:47 PM

I agree, I am enjoying listening to all your stories. It never stops amazing me all this mystisism we attach to the pursuit of these curly horns. As much as I love hunting them I think the biggest challenge is getting in shape and being patient. The biggest "secret" is not so much where they are but how one hunts them. I was told when I started that there are two kinds of sheep hunters: ones that have many stories of wild adventurous hunts and few trophys and the others had minimal stories but several rams. For what it's worth.

Yes, no matter what is stated, there are rams that are taken from "dirt roads". They sometimes travel great distances, i.e. getting ready for the rut. I believe that no matter what the pressure rams just don't disappear. The more pressure, the more they act like big whitetails, head for the timber, rocks etc., but they still have to get up and feed. It may be that you don't find them grazing on the grass like cattle but you can still find them. Take as much info as you can then get out there and just do it! The average is about three years before one harvests their first ram. The pursuit is the cake and the ram icing.

Deaddog

06-27-2006, 08:38 PM

This is a good thread, I agree there are no longer any secret spots, just different hunters, and while the alaska highway has pressure I have done well by "highway" hunting over the years, I believe the difference is in work ethic and how hard one is willing to push in trying to locate the rams. We always talk as if the outfitters have the upper hand, remember their clients have to be able to get to the rams, if we are prepared properly we will outhike and outwork those clients. I believe it is great that there appears to be an increasing number of sheep hunters, the more of us the more the species will be monitored and therefore protected. Looking forward to seeing you guys out there!!

40incher

06-27-2006, 09:12 PM

WOW there are some great sheep pics on here....and the best part is to hunt sheep here just go a buy a tag....
Looks like this thread has caused some real "sheep fever". Once you've got it there is no cure, other than the mountains getting too steep.

I've only read the last few pages (otherwise I won't get any work done) but it's good to see there is a real appreciation for what opportunities we have in B.C.

This quoted message caught my eye though. As I have mentioned before with regard to the Allocation Policy Rewrite we may be on the verge of losing what we have long taken for granted. Our priority right to pursue wild game as resident hunters is not being respected by those charged with making and implementing policy and procedures to allocate harvest opportunities in the future.

If you appreciate what we have, and don't want to lose it start asking some questions of the powers that be "What's up?". Once again, as was close to becoming reality in January, a very flawed document is close to being signed off.

kutenay

06-28-2006, 06:14 AM

This problem has been on-going throughout the entire history of B.C. and of Canada; there appears to exist a weird notion in certain quarters that we residents should be perfectly content to be "equals" with the Guide-Outfitters and their foreign clients. My rights, simply put, come from my B.C. birth and absolutely supercede any "right" of commercial harvest by anyone, especially Guide-Outfitters who are NOT Canadians and employ "frontmen" to legally operate here in B.C.

I have been in contact with the Ministry concerning this, however, the people I have spoken to are VERY circumspect and vague concerning the allocation of game, the circumstances surrounding certain G-Os from the USA that have been charged and convicted with offences under the Wildlife Act and other aspects of the situation. We B.C. hunters have to realize that what we have here is unique in an over-crowded world and we have an absolute and fundamental right to keep our wildlife for ourselves or apportion it as we see fit, this includes banning any foreign exploitation of it if we choose.

An example of the current government's misguided, socially destructive policies is the huge increase in raw log exports to American mills, while our mills, such as in Port Alberni are closed and the workers idle, due to lack of logs to process. Another example is that foreign hunters kill about TWICE as many Stone's Sheep in B.C. per annum as residents do and this has to do with allocation policy, restrictions on access that work in favour of the G/Os and so forth. Is THIS what we B.C. hunters REALLY want??????

I just turned 60 and there is all the hunting I can ever want available to me, so, my concern is not based on anything other than a desire to see younger B.C-Canadian hunters have priority in access to OUR wildlife. This will take serious effort on our part as the G/Os and the foreign-based hunter's organizations have very well organized and effective lobbying techniques in place in Victoria as we speak. If, we lose our birthright through apathy, false belief in "conservation" orgs. based in other nations and an attitude that WE do not have the right to OUR game OVER any foreigner, well, we will deserve what will and is happening now...................

bigwhiteys

06-28-2006, 07:51 AM

Another example is that foreign hunters kill about TWICE as many Stone's Sheep in B.C. per annum as residents do and this has to do with allocation policy, restrictions on access that work in favour of the G/Os and so forth. Is THIS what we B.C. hunters REALLY want??????

Kutenay,

This is sort of dragging this thread off topic. I just wanted to touch on this one point. G/O's obviously kill more sheep because...

- They have the vast knowledge of the area.
- They have the equipment and gear required to hunt it.
- They have the guides and trained people to get the job done.

Regular Joe Schmoe hunter doesn't usually have all the required gear and knowledge to fully exploit the best hunting areas. I think it has very little to do with the allocation policy. These critters live in tough areas to gain access to. That and the lack of knowledge are the resident hunters biggest roadblocks when chasing sheep.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

40incher

06-28-2006, 05:38 PM

With all due respect; over-regulation such as unnecessary LEH, equally unnecessary access restrictions (the Packer Policy), high-grading of accessible areas, and five-year administrative guidelines that allow two-years of guided kill to be taken in one year, have a very large impact on resident vs. non-resident harvest.

The Allocation Policy, unto itself, only enables a fair playing field. We still need the bureaucrats to take the actual steps to move the resident kill to a 60% minimum harvest. This would reflect resident priority of "harvest".

This could and should happen. Resident kill has been declining rapidly while the over-regulation compounds. The one-in three in 7B is but another example of residents being subjected to another layer of regulations. Non-residents can kill one every year.

Lack of knowledge is a limited effect, easily corrected by allowing the experienced resident hunters to actually harvest a ram yearly if they so chose. As well, an earlier opening date for residents-only would help to compensate for the increased success of guided non-resident hunters. A ten day jump on the Yanks :eek:. Perhaps that just makes too much sense.

Nevertheless it is only 30 days until we head north to chase the blue rams in the Skeena :smile: . Let's hope that can continue happen every year for all BC resident hunters who wish to do so.

willy442

06-28-2006, 05:55 PM

[quote=kutenay]This problem has been on-going throughout the entire history of B.C. and of Canada; there appears to exist a weird notion in certain quarters that we residents should be perfectly content to be "equals" with the Guide-Outfitters and their foreign clients. My rights, simply put, come from my B.C. birth and absolutely supercede any "right" of commercial harvest by anyone, especially Guide-Outfitters who are NOT Canadians and employ "frontmen" to legally operate here in B.C.

I have been in contact with the Ministry concerning this, however, the people I have spoken to are VERY circumspect and vague concerning the allocation of game, the circumstances surrounding certain G-Os from the USA that have been charged and convicted with offences under the Wildlife Act and other aspects of the situation. We B.C. hunters have to realize that what we have here is unique in an over-crowded world and we have an absolute and fundamental right to keep our wildlife for ourselves or apportion it as we see fit, this includes banning any foreign exploitation of it if we choose.

An example of the current government's misguided, socially destructive policies is the huge increase in raw log exports to American mills, while our mills, such as in Port Alberni are closed and the workers idle, due to lack of logs to process. Another example is that foreign hunters kill about TWICE as many Stone's Sheep in B.C. per annum as residents do and this has to do with allocation policy, restrictions on access that work in favour of the G/Os and so forth. Is THIS what we B.C. hunters REALLY want??????

I just turned 60 and there is all the hunting I can ever want available to me, so, my concern is not based on anything other than a desire to see younger B.C-Canadian hunters have priority in access to OUR wildlife. This will take serious effort on our part as the G/Os and the foreign-based hunter's organizations have very well organized and effective lobbying techniques in place in Victoria as we speak. If, we lose our birthright through apathy, false belief in "conservation" orgs. based in other nations and an attitude that WE do not have the right to OUR game OVER any foreigner, well, we will deserve what will and is happening now...................[/quote

Kutenay; Practising cut and paste AGAIN. Why do we have to be subjected the narrow minded garbage, (which seems to be imbedded in your mind) on such a fine educational thread, by sheep hunters, for SHEEP HUNTERS. We have all heard your assumptions and watched you try to apply your personal vendetta's in G/O matters time after time. Is it not time we all band together, put personal greed aside and work for common goals and better wildlife management? Please do not reply with how many years you worked for Alberta Forestry or about all your influential friends. I for one am not interested and have better ways to work toward this generations, off spring being able to hunt in the future!

willy442

06-28-2006, 06:27 PM

40 incher

I agree with you in the matter of LEH. However after sitting through many hours of meetings with G/Os, BCWF members and Government Officials. I came to realize the LEH is not there to manage sheep populations. The first discussions with government on LEH were fought fiercly by all hunting groups Then it was realized, due to increased hunting pressures in the most accessable area's, it was required that managers developed a way to disperse sheep hunters over more of the habitat especially in regions 6 & 7. The options presented were LEH or a draw system for all. Hence LEH came into play as a tool to manage people, it is not well liked but is alot better than a draw system. It may be wise to support the system we now have as I believe, if allocation is reopened, residents and G/Os will both loose. There may be alot more of us searching the draw on the ministry website.:-?

kutenay

06-28-2006, 07:09 PM

I have not practised ...cut and paste... and I have a right to express my opinions here as you do. Of course, I realize that there is an agenda involved in your continual insults directed at me and I am quite sure I know what that is and who you are.

I will say no more as Gatehouse will delete any comments he finds inappropriate, so, it's a waste of time. Don't lecture me about cooperation between various user groups as I have strongly advocated just that in this and a number of other threads and have spent a great deal of time in volunteer conservation work.

40incher

06-28-2006, 08:08 PM

Willy 442,

I do support the existing Allocation Policy we have now. Unfortunately it is not being implemented as it should, and it is in the process of being canned by MOE as we speak.

The APP Rewrite is scheduled to be signed off on June 30th according to the latest MOE directive I have seen. That's this Friday!

Hunter's Dad

06-29-2006, 05:06 AM

Hey guy's it's a great thread let's try and keep it going in the direction it started. Put up a new one if we're going to start the whole GO /allocation/ hunter's rights topic. We all know it's hot and will gather our attention. Everyone has the right to express with out negative riddicule. Sometimes our emmotions get the best of us.

I'm still waiting to find out where the big Bighorn's are found.

kutenay

06-29-2006, 06:02 AM

My point was simply to illustrate my agreement with 40incher's posts on this issue. I do not think that allocation policies can really be separated from predator issues, habitat alienation or disease/parasite problems in terms of availability of hunting opportunity/population numbers for sheep or any other game species. So, to me, this aspect of the discussion is as relevant as the methods used to determine age/legality.

I appreciate and share your concern for treating each other with respect and courtesy, hence the moderate tone of my posts. Personal agendas are best dealt with in personal meetings, not here on the board, IMHO.

The largest Bighorns I have found are on the B.C./AB border and are both at elevation and tend to be "timber sheep", except in the National Parks where we cannot hunt them, but, some can. That may take the thread too far off the track, so, I won't pursue it, but, I have seen rams there (while working) that would probably equal Bovey's 1911 monster.....LEH in National Parks, yup, I want it.

GoatGuy

06-29-2006, 06:25 AM

I'm still waiting to find out where the big Bighorn's are found.

Usually on their winter range and then follow your way back! :mrgreen: You won't find anyone giving up their secret sheep spots - most 'successfull' bighorn hunters are really tight lipped about their spots.

GoatGuy

06-29-2006, 06:57 AM

Here are a couple of pics of rock's on their winter range. These rockies seldom to never find themselves in an area open to hunting but their worth looking at.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/418001.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/418003.JPG

GoatGuy

06-29-2006, 06:59 AM

http://www.hunt101.com/img/418004.JPG

http://www.hunt101.com/img/418005.JPG

Stone Sheep Steve

06-29-2006, 07:05 AM

So, with sheep hunting comes the possiblity of a grizz encounter. I know of 3 charging grizzlies that were dumped just during last year. My partner was one of them(7MM Ruger #1 -sinlge shot:eek: ).
How many of you have had bad or close to bad encounters with grizzlies while sheep hunting??
I pack a .270 but would pack a little more fire power if I had it.

SSS

GoatGuy

06-29-2006, 07:12 AM

How many of you have had bad or close to bad encounters with grizzlies while sheep hunting??

SSS

Never (course I haven't hunted sheep) - don't think the old man ever had any problems. He did have a goat the put the hurt on their tent one day though! :mrgreen:

SSS I know you can run faster than your sheep hunting partner so I wouldn't be too worried! :wink:

bighornbob

06-29-2006, 09:16 AM

Palmer

Yes sheep are killed on the road. In Spences a bunch are killed each year by vehicles, oh you meant by hunters using bullets:mrgreen:

Yes they are, I personally know of one Stone and One Rocky killed right in the middle of a road. The stone was not a highway kill either. The guy that killed the Rocky was looking for sheep on the mountain where the rams come in the late part of the season to prepare for the rut. Everywhere he glassed he saw guys on the mountain, he got frustrated and decided to head home at noon. He was driving down the road and 20 sheep are crossing the road about 500m in front. He pins the truck toward them and bails out at about 200m as he sees rams at the back. One shot dropped a 170 class Rocky. He drove up loaded it whole and drove it to a creek. He gutted it on his tailgate.

Stories like this are rare but they do happen. Like somebody has said the sheep start acting like whitetails. The guy that killed the sheep on the road told me that he heard that some guys saw a full curl on a certain road. I was going to be hunting sheep in the area so I went to investigate. The area where they saw the ram had 60m of cliffs then timber above. Well this timber was on a ridge that if you followed up about a km would end up in some nice alpine where I had seen a 3/4 curl that morning and where 4 other guys were also chasing sheep. The big ram has probably adapted to all the activity at the top and dropped down the mountain where nobody bugs him.

I have seen this countless times. Guys think the sheep are way back but overlook the obvious. The guy that killed the Rocky in the middle of the road has killed 2 other Rockies that he spotted from the truck. As he puts it sheep are where you find them. Look for areas that may seem real marginal for sheep that are connected to sheepy areas that are known to contain sheep.

BHB

bigwhiteys

06-29-2006, 09:23 AM

How many of you have had bad or close to bad encounters with grizzlies while sheep hunting??

I was charged by a Grizzly when I was a young kid. Not sheep hunting though. I was running faster then my sister and cousin so it was cool.

My dad has had a few encounters with them though. I have a Grizzly rug from a young bear that was taking caribou meat off the racks in one of the camps. My dad didn't carry a rifle when he guided so he ran up and started beating it with the cabin broom.

The bear turned to run away, ran right into my dad knocked him on his ass and kept going... I think the hunter in camp ended up shooting it.

And now it's in my office!

I also have a blackie rug that my dad got as well. The bear came right through the door of the tent he was in. He had a pistol that time and the bear went down right inside his tent!

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Gateholio

06-29-2006, 05:16 PM

[

Kutenay; Practising cut and paste AGAIN. Why do we have to be subjected the narrow minded garbage, (which seems to be imbedded in your mind) on such a fine educational thread, by sheep hunters, for SHEEP HUNTERS. We have all heard your assumptions and watched you try to apply your personal vendetta's in G/O matters time after time. Is it not time we all band together, put personal greed aside and work for common goals and better wildlife management? Please do not reply with how many years you worked for Alberta Forestry or about all your influential friends. I for one am not interested and have better ways to work toward this generations, off spring being able to hunt in the future!

Gentlemen (Willy442 in particular)

please keep this discussion civil. If you can't play nice, I'll lock the thread.

As the thread is abotu "talkign sheep" I'm not goign to delete the allocation etc comments, since they are certainly a part of shepp hunitng today in BC, but I would prefer a new thread be started for that, as this is a more a "how to" hutn sheep, not a "politics of sheep" thread.;-)

Willy, I've deleted your comments in the past, in the future, please treat others wiht respect.

Deaddog

06-29-2006, 05:31 PM

have not had problems with bear sheep hunting;, in fact I have never seen a bear, grizzly or otherwise on our sheep hunts, however my hunting partner and I were charged by a sow, above timber line while hunting goats, she came from the other side of an alpine valley on a dead run straight at us, we had dropped our packs of goat meat and climbed back up into the rocks, she ran straight past (almost over) the meat and kept coming at us, we eventually had to shoot her as it was no bluff charge, took a number of minutes to stop shaking, It definetly is an experience I do not want to repeat as it took five shots, two well placed, to keep her down, the power in these animals is incredibible, we were shooting an 06 and a 300 mag

358mag

06-29-2006, 08:25 PM

it it just my computer or ??? as of yesterday i not getting any of Bigwhiteys great old time sheep pictures ,there were there on monday now the gone all i have is a blank white box with a red X in the upper left corner i can rite arrow click on the X and that brings up another box that say "show picture" i click on that and nothing and ideas out there or ???

Stone Sheep Steve

06-30-2006, 06:54 AM

When a picture hosting site that the poster uses goes down you will usually see a red X. Once the site gets back up and runnning the pics will reapppear unless they have been removed from the users album then it will usually say the "pic is no longer available" and have the sites name there as well. We all hope THOSE pics come back!!

SSS

bigwhiteys

06-30-2006, 08:45 AM

I host the images on my own server. They were drawing too much attention and I couldn't keep my PM box from overflowing so I removed them. Just before season I'll see if I can post some new ones to get everyone focused.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Maxx

06-30-2006, 09:26 AM

palmer

07-24-2006, 12:23 PM

SEVEN days to go and "Let the games begin"

mainland hunter

07-24-2006, 01:57 PM

good luck to those going for sheep, next year will be my turn God willing

palmer

07-26-2006, 01:13 PM

So some of the boys are already in the field looking for Mr Big as we speak....5 days and then the bullets start flying

palmer

07-30-2006, 04:36 PM

Well one more day and then they open....I can't wait till the 15 and I am in the mountains hunting stones................I wish the guys luck on the first...tho none will be able to read this now.

Kechika

07-31-2006, 04:47 PM

30 more days for me.Hopefully this time

brno375

12-02-2006, 09:38 PM

Just before season I'll see if I can post some new ones to get everyone focused.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

Hi Carl. Now that the season is over, do you mind posting a pic or two again please? I was not a member of this board when this thread was started, so missed out on the crankers, and I need a fix. I'm already dicussing next years hunt and so have sheep on the brain.

Here is my contribution.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/adamtayler/stone%20sheep%202006/07510011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/adamtayler/stone%20sheep%202006/07510003.jpg

WoodOx

12-02-2006, 09:44 PM

Jeesh, didnt realize there were so many sheep hunters on this board.

Almost time to start a new thead for anything heading out for sheep in 2007 I think??

bigwhiteys

12-02-2006, 11:34 PM

Hey Brno375,

My dad was guiding before the days of digital cameras so all of the pictures we have need to be scanned individually or a digital picture of the actual pic itself. One of my uncles has been slowly transferring the old outfitting photo albums into a digital format but he's not finished yet.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

boatdoc

12-03-2006, 03:01 PM

Great thread .Couple of good books on sheep, Return of Royalty and The Great Arc of the Wild Sheep.Both have decent basic sheep info,habit ,terrain ,distribution.Have heard that sheep populations up north could be in a bit of trouble.Haven't hunted sheep yet ,mabey this year.Had the goat bug but now am cured , so sheep are next.Anyone hunt Stones in early Sept? Lots of bad weather days?

WoodOx

12-03-2006, 03:21 PM

I have heard the opposite - that sheep populations are thriving more than ever in the past.

Does anyone know anything with empirical backing regarding sheep populations and herd health?

BCrams

12-03-2006, 03:28 PM

Augaucher - You got alot of research to do !! And then again ...... you might be one of those lucky hunters !!

boatdoc

12-04-2006, 12:33 PM

GoatGuy

12-04-2006, 12:58 PM

WoodOx

12-04-2006, 06:59 PM

Augaucher - You got alot of research to do !! And then again ...... you might be one of those lucky hunters !!

That saves years of hiking by going with an oldtimer sheep hunter? :lol:

boxhitch

12-05-2006, 08:31 AM

The word on sheep populations came from a senior wildlife biologist M.O.E.He is my hunting partner so the info sould be accurate. There is the new alocation policy that could change us buying over the counter tags for sheep, i hope not.
GENERALLY speaking, there are problems with some sheep populations. And there is nothing in the new Allocations policy that says anything about o.t.c. tag sales, for any species. ??????????? (and thats how stories get started)

WoodOx

12-05-2006, 09:20 AM

No kidding. Started working out last night. Swimming, as its a bit chilly for me to start hiking.

Whats your guys' opinion on rifle selection. Without buying a dedicated sheep rifle, my two options are .300 Win mag and 7mm-08. I would typically have never even considered the 7-08, but a friend who has shot a number of sheep recommended it due to its weight, or lack there of.

My .300 Win mag, with scope, magazine, and bullets, weighs just under 11 lbs, whereas the 7.08 weighs around 7 lbs with scope/magazine.

In the .300 I am going to be using a 150 or 160 grain bullet, practices out to 400 yards substantially.

The problem arises with the 7mm08 - at 300 yards its ballistics with a 140gr bullet begins to act like a .300 at 400 yards. I am a bigger guy, 6'1'' and 160lbs so I am thinking I should sacrifice the few more lbs and go with the .300, saving knockdown power and distance.

Whaddya gguys think? Ive been told, but have no personal experience that sheep arent that tough, and typically a well placed shot will take them down fast.

WoodOx

12-05-2006, 09:43 AM

Although ive posted this before, I thought it might get some of you goin' for next season - a real Kamloops Lake beast!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/agaucher/caliaoudad108.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/agaucher/seanssheep.jpg

bigwhiteys

12-05-2006, 09:48 AM

Go with the lighter gun and promise you won't be taking any 400 yard shots on a ram. Saw your deer thread :) If you or the guy you are hunting with are any good at stalking getting close to the rams for a good shot opportunity shouldn't be an issue. Patience will be important.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

WoodOx

12-05-2006, 10:23 AM

Thanks for input BW - I have just heard that in some of the open country up north long shots are abundant. This sheep hunt is going to be a TOTALLY different story than the deer thread you read, I was fully not prepared for that long of a shot. Im making private ltitle range (since ours in kelowna doesnt goto 400m) and plan on shooting in about 6 boxes of bullets, once I choose one, at different positions etc. I dont plan on taking another 400 yard shot without an excess of practice.

bigwhiteys

12-05-2006, 10:31 AM

I would say 100-200 yards would be the most common range. Many sheep are taken at less then 100 yards.

Every stalk is different obviously because of the terrain. But if you cannot get any closer then 400 yards move on and find another Ram or wait him out until you have a closer shot. (Patience)

I do not think it's worth wounding one of these animals with a risky long shot. For most guys a sheep hunt is a once in a lifetime deal.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

WoodOx

12-05-2006, 10:51 AM

Fair enough - I respect that. Regardless of the shot, do you think those few pounds on the rifle will make a substantial difference?

-Andrew

Stone Sheep Steve

12-05-2006, 11:19 AM

AG-I'd go with the 7mm-08 unless you consider the G-bear factor. Lots of guys are having issues with them up north and I know of 3 charging bears that were shot by sheep hunters in 2005 alone(my partner was one of them-Stonechaser was another). $hit happens when you're packing meat in grizz country.

Not trying to make you paranoid or anything but most of us carry life insurance even though most of us will never need it.

What ever you decide for a rifle don't go with a #1 Ruger:roll: .

Personally I'd love to pick up one of those Browning Titanium 300WSM in the camo stalk:cool: . I picked up a friend's and it was waaaaay lighter than my .270 Comp Stalker. For a factory rifle you can't beat them. Just not cheap.

SSS

bigwhiteys

12-05-2006, 11:48 AM

do you think those few pounds on the rifle will make a substantial difference?

Yes it makes a difference when you're hiking up and down mountains over an extended period of time. I go as light as I can possibly go without leaving behind any essentials. This means spending $$$ upgrading gear.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

boxhitch

12-05-2006, 04:19 PM

Lots of guys are having issues with them up north and I know of 3 charging bears that were shot by sheep hunters in 2005 alone(my partner was one of them-Stonechaser was another). $hit happens when you're packing meat in grizz country.

And yet the bios say 'no problem g. bears were reported killed in reg 7 in 2005'. Go figure.

Kirby

12-05-2006, 04:48 PM

Anybody here ever bowhunted stones? I am thinking in the next 2 years I better start looking for my stone, if as BCrams says it "the year you start sheep hunting is the year your ram is born" I figure bowhunting if I am lucky the year I start is the year my rams father is born.:lol:

Kirby

StoneChaser

12-05-2006, 04:54 PM

Stone Sheep Steve

12-05-2006, 07:35 PM

And yet the bios say 'no problem g. bears were reported killed in reg 7 in 2005'. Go figure.
Funny, my buddy's was reported. No SSS. Maybe he wasn't a "problem bear" because he was killed just before he was a problem:lol: . Dead bears aren't usually much of a problem. Ahhhh, the technicalities of wildlife management!

SSS

bighornbob

12-06-2006, 09:23 AM

Maybe self defence bears are not included in the "problem bears" number. They might mean "problem bears" are ones that are feeding on garbage and they recieve numerous calls before a CO or police officer have to shoot it. Just my speculatiuon.

BHB

GoatGuy

12-08-2006, 04:30 PM

Nothing's a 'problem' unless it ends up in the paper! :lol:

Rod

01-23-2007, 11:19 AM

I have probably read this thread 3 times and it increases my intrest more and more each time! It's off season and this has been a great thread so far and hopefully this will bump start it again.

I have never hunted sheep but I certainly intend to but like everyone starting out I would like to do it right from the start.

While I don't expect any info on a hotspot how about some specifics on how to go about deciding on a hunting location. I will be trying to locate an area that I can get to on my own (drive in with truck, possibly use a quad if necessary/advisable to get even further before setting off on foot to a base camp).

So here are some questions that I hope you guys with experience can help with.

Is there one type of sheep that offers better odds to a first timer? anything that would increase the odds from accessability, population, or tag availability.

What do you look for when studying maps to locate your hunting location.

What about guns n loads? I am talking myself into a gun cabinet shuffle and have been considering a T/C in 260... comments?

Assuming I do my homework (with some help here) and come up with a location that I "think" holds a ram is pre-season scouting required? if so how early?

Basically I'm looking for any advice you are willing to share with the new/potential sheep hunters here.

Cheers
Rod

bigwhiteys

01-23-2007, 11:46 AM

Is there one type of sheep that offers better odds to a first timer? anything that would increase the odds from accessability, population, or tag availability.

Probably Stones, because there is more of them and still lots of access as well as there is a general open season.

What do you look for when studying maps to locate your hunting location.

The big red circles that say "Sheep Here" :)

Seriously... I can't think of many guys that found their sheep by just looking at a map and pinpointing a hunting location (I am sure some have)...

Most learn of an area through word of mouth and then they go there... use the map for your route research, and general lay of the land but not to pinpoint where rams will be...

Sheep are going to be where you find them. They have 4 legs, a heartbeat and a mind of their own! I was extremely surprised last year at some of the locations we located rams.

What about guns n loads? I am talking myself into a gun cabinet shuffle and have been considering a T/C in 260... comments?

Sheep have been killed with probably every center fire caliber imaginable... I have a .270 that will work just fine.

Assuming I do my homework (with some help here) and come up with a location that I "think" holds a ram is pre-season scouting required? if so how early?

If you're hunting Stones you probably wouldn't need to bother with pre-season scouting as the rams may be in an entirely different location when you return in season depending on how late you go... unless you know exactly where they are moving too it could be a waste of time.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

bighornbob

01-23-2007, 11:55 AM

The best way to find sheep for a new person trying to get into sheep hunting is get the latest copy of the BC record book. The book lists where animals were killed and when. By using the book it will narrow down your search big time. For example for Rocky Mountain Bighorns, Spences Bridge comes up too may times to mention. So now you grab a good map of the area and start looking at the creeks, mountains etc in the area. Noe go back to the record book and you will see more places in the Spences area like Lytton, Bottanie Lake, Murray creek etc etc. Now you have narrowed your search down to specific creeks or smaller areas. Be advised that us sheep hunters lie and go to great lengths to protect an area we may have found. So we may list Spences bridge as the location when in fact the sheep was killed up some creek between Spences and Lytton:lol:

So now you have narrowed your search to the Spences area and you decide to drive up there one weekend during the summer for a scouting trip. The first thing you notice is from Lytton to North of Spences it all looks the same, so now the sheep can and will be found anywhere inbetween the areas. That is one big area.

In regards to what sheep would provide the best chance at getting a ram, that is tough one. Getting away from the crowds would be the first thing. If there is a road or trail in sheep country that leads to better sheep country, there will already be a truck or horse trailer parked at the end. So I would say a fly in hunt up north could be successful but once again dont be surprised at there being another camp at the lake or somebody coming in after you. When you look at a map there are not that many lakes that planes or pilots want to land on.

Getting a draw of any kind will greatly help but once again this will improve your odds of getting a sheep but by no means will it be a guarentee.

Any gun that shoots straight out to 250 yards will kill a sheep and is a good gun to carry from 7-08 to 300 ultra. The bigger the bullet the heavier the gun and the more weight you have to carry. In that same sentence if push come to shove do you want to be facing a charging bear with a 7-08 or do you want something with a bit more punch.

There are a lot of places that hold rams but the key is finding a place that holds a legal ram. Big difference. You could find the best spot and do all the planning and spend a lot of cash on the trip and gear and come up there and find not a legal ram. Some herds will not have a legal ram every year. Or the herd goes in cycles, one year 3 or 4 rams get killed then there are no legal rams for a few years.

Hope this helps out a bit.

BHB

StoneChaser

01-23-2007, 01:40 PM

Rod, in my experience the key to finding a good ram is not hunting where they have been killed.

Instead look to hunt areas where they have NOT been killed.

This strategy has worked fairly well for me, as a good ram will likely be legal for a few years before he's what I'm after... meaning look for an area that hasn't been beat to death by hunters.

Inevitably, this will mean most of the following:

1. Tough ground (away from the guides and their horses)
2. Long hikes (outhiking the competition never hurts - access dictates pressure!)
3. Low sheep numbers (if there are dozens of rams on each mountain... somebody will know about them - GUARANTEED!)...I prefer the spotty fringe areas, hoping for a ram that went under the radar for a few years.

I've come to learn that "word of mouth" is a recipe for a hillside full of other hunters...unless you have a VERY fresh firsthand tip! If you hear about it from a buddy of a buddy, or the local B+C measurer, it's old news!

Expect to come home empty handed the first few trips with nothing more than a fistful of pictures and a lifetime of memories - most don't tag a ram on the first few trips (unless they go with a seasoned vet.).

Finally above all else, your level of fitness will dictate how much fun you have (and likely how sucessful you are). GET INTO SHAPE!!!!

The lightest rifle, top notch optics, latest greatest wonder clothing, pack, tent, stove, sleeping bag and high end wonder food won't do a fella an ounce of good if his body isn't up for the task.

One last word... be very careful.... sheep hunting is more addictive than heroin and women combined:) !

StoneChaser

BCrams

01-23-2007, 02:00 PM

Bigwhiteys, BHB and SC summed it up.

Rod

01-23-2007, 02:30 PM

All good info that is really appreciated. I don't expect to tag out right away, I taught myself to hunt from the start and understand that returning empty handed is just part of the learning process. If it was just a matter of going out and punching a hole in a big honkin' ram/deer/bull etc. I probably would have quit long ago.

So the next big question is how does one convince a "seasoned vet" to let him tag along and learn <BWG>?

Krico

01-23-2007, 07:16 PM

While I am by no means a veteran or expert sheep hunter, the one thing I would add to the advice on optics is you need practice glassing-and I mean properly scouring mountainsides for sheep, and practice judging the rams. Someone who has glassed a lot of sheep can make the legal/not legal call (which is usually the only call needed for a guys first sheep) much easier than a rookie,and generally find the animals faster and with less effort. While pre-season scouting may not provide you with information on where you can find a ram during the season, it can sure provide you with opportunity to practice glassing and judging rams. Unfortunately most areas you find sheep take considerable time and effort to get into, and using vacation time just to scout is not something many are willing to do.

Rod

01-23-2007, 07:32 PM

I understand the rule about buying the best optics you can afford but does that really mean a $1500.00 Swarovorski or can a guy get by with a decent Leupold?

bigwhiteys

01-23-2007, 07:42 PM

Rod,

When you are picking apart a mountain with your spotting scope it can get tiresome on your eyes... making them hurt after a while (hours). The higher priced glass makes it more comfortable and you can obviously see a a brighter clearer image, especially in low light. A good tripod can greatly help with comfort as well.

With that said, I've picked out plenty of sheep on the mountain with my $400 Bushnell Spacemaster II and wouldn't hesitate to take it along... The last two years my partner has had a Zeiss or a Swarovski so I was spoiled and used their superior glass.

My dad guided for dozens of rams with nothing more then an old school Bushnell Birder spotting scope without a tripod... He'd put it on a rock or whatever he had nearby... Seemed to work well for him...

Happy Hunting!
Carl