stone sheep 2010 harvest stats region 7b

[bridger]

these stats are not quite complete and a few compulsory inspection reports may still show up but only a minimal amount. thought they would be of interest to sheep hunters. UPDATED DECEMBER 3


RESIDENT HARVEST: 111 rams, 27 under 8yrs of age and 84 over 8 years of age

NON RESIDENT HARVEST 92 rams -8 rams under 8 yrs and 84 rams over 8 yrs

TOTAL HARVEST 203 RAMS RES 55% NON RES 45%

[Devilbear]

Good stuff, Rich, seems as though things are improving a little, but, we have a long road ahead to bring our access to our resource to a point where we residents harvest all the sheep we want to. I would like to see a 90-10 split at best and if the GOs do not like it, too damm bad!

[bridger]

i agree however the goabc is asking the moe to revisit the allocation policy before it is fully implemented in 2012. they are also asking the non residents be taken of sheep quota altogether. tough fight ahead.

[blackbart]

Any chance that you could post the allocation policy Rich? I am sure that some of us may not have seen it as of yet.

Perhaps we could even form a unified voice to defend resident hunter access!

[guest]

Thanks Rich for the stats, personally, I would like to see more of a 75% res and 25 % non-res. That way, all opportunity is not lost for the many G/O but their numbers are more limited. Frankly the costs the G/O's put on Sheep hunts for resident hunts compared to the cost's for non-res is not fare. Also it's a known fact that most G/O's won't put residents on good Rams because they do get more $$ from the non-res unless it's a last resort. (eg: not fully booked).

The prices have grown to be ridiculous, so I will continue to back pack and use packers, jet operators, airplane's when I can in the tougher access area's. When will the G/O's figure it out..... there is money to be made off the residents if it were priced reasonably.

Good to see the numbers at least on our side as residents.

CT

[bridger]

Any chance that you could post the allocation policy Rich? I am sure that some of us may not have seen it as of yet.

Perhaps we could even form a unified voice to defend resident hunter access!


the allocation policy in its entiretly is just too big to post on the site. in summary res and non res hunting opporutnities are based on a sliding percentage of the allowable harvest for the specie. for sheep the minimum percentage for residents is 60% of the annual allowabe harvest. the maximum is 80% so theoretically as resident use increases the non resident portion will be reduced accordingly to a minimum of 20%. that is the floor. after that controls will be put on residents with leh as the last resort. other methods such as one in three etc will be used.

with the present allowable harvest for stone's in 7b when the allocation policy is implemented fully the non resident quota is scheduled to be reduced to 69 rams. the remaining harvest going to residents. as you can see this year the non res took 92 rams. this is why the goabc wants to re negotiate and ultimately have non res sheep hunters taken off quota altogether. if that happens residents will again be taking fewer rams than the non residents and we will again be second class citizens in our own province. in my view it is extremely important that residents and not just sheep hunters tell their mla's, the moe and the bcwf president that those actions are unacceptable.

[leadpillproductions]

Thanks Rich for the stats, personally, I would like to see more of a 75% res and 25 % non-res. That way, all opportunity is not lost for the many G/O but their numbers are more limited. Frankly the costs the G/O's put on Sheep hunts for resident hunts compared to the cost's for non-res is not fare. Also it's a known fact that most G/O's won't put residents on good Rams because they do get more $$ from the non-res unless it's a last resort. (eg: not fully booked).

The prices have grown to be ridiculous, so I will continue to back pack and use packers, jet operators, airplane's when I can in the tougher access area's. When will the G/O's figure it out..... there is money to be made off the residents if it were priced reasonably.

Good to see the numbers at least on our side as residents.

CT
Your 100%right if the price was better i would do it

[Fosey]

all I have to say is good on every resident that harvested a Ram. At least we are showing our interest in hunting sheep.

[Kody94]

the allocation policy in its entiretly is just too big to post on the site. in summary res and non res hunting opporutnities are based on a sliding percentage of the allowable harvest for the specie. for sheep the minimum percentage for residents is 60% of the annual allowabe harvest. the maximum is 80% so theoretically as resident use increases the non resident portion will be reduced accordingly to a minimum of 20%. that is the floor. after that controls will be put on residents with leh as the last resort. other methods such as one in three etc will be used.

with the present allowable harvest for stone's in 7b when the allocation policy is implemented fully the non resident quota is scheduled to be reduced to 69 rams. the remaining harvest going to residents. as you can see this year the non res took 92 rams. this is why the goabc wants to re negotiate and ultimately have non res sheep hunters taken off quota altogether. if that happens residents will again be taking fewer rams than the non residents and we will again be second class citizens in our own province. in my view it is extremely important that residents and not just sheep hunters tell their mla's, the moe and the bcwf president that those actions are unacceptable.

IIRC, the target harvest is only 180, right? With a current GO quota of 102.

Nice to see the residents doing a little better at least! :)

[leadpillproductions]

The funny thing is a lot of sheep hunters bitch about the guides and i get it . But when people ask for help info there is a ton of hunters shhhhhh dont tell they"ll come hunt sheep . Kinda shooting our self in the foot i might be wrong but thats how it sounds to me .Kudo's to the guys that do try to steer guys in the right direction.

[6616]

Any chance that you could post the allocation policy Rich? I am sure that some of us may not have seen it as of yet.

Perhaps we could even form a unified voice to defend resident hunter access!

Go here: http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/harvest_alloc/

There are 5 policy documents and 3 procedure documents plus an implementation plan that is in effect until the end of the 2011 hunting season. The new policy is supposed to be fully implemented for the 2012 season.

[pro 111]

A couple things that piss me off is some guy like Olmstead , American lives in the states most of the time but has the cash to reside in BC as well. You should have 10 year ties to the province before your aloud to buy an outfit in BC.
Also there are a few guys out there from the states that hunt 2 or 3 stone sheep with different outfitters in one season. I think that is bullshit. Just because you have the coin it gives you the right to greed out on one species. There should be a lifetime bag limitt for those greedy *******s on such things as Sheep. Once they have killed 2or three of one species thats it unless they move to BC.
My 2 cents worth .

[jml11]

A couple things that piss me off is some guy like Olmstead , American lives in the states most of the time but has the cash to reside in BC as well. You should have 10 year ties to the province before your aloud to buy an outfit in BC.
Also there are a few guys out there from the states that hunt 2 or 3 stone sheep with different outfitters in one season. I think that is bullshit. Just because you have the coin it gives you the right to greed out on one species. There should be a lifetime bag limitt for those greedy *******s on such things as Sheep. Once they have killed 2or three of one species thats it unless they move to BC.
My 2 cents worth .

Why does it matter who the non-resident is? Just because one guy takes two a year or comes back every year, it won't affect the number of rams killed by non-residents. This has no impact on the allocation whatsoever, there are plenty of other 'greedy' folks willing to take his place. Those rams will be killed regardless of who the non-resident hunter is. The non-residents coming here to hunt are not to blame, they are only taking advantage of an opportunity. Local example: If a resident kills a deer in Region 3, would you label that person 'greedy' for going after another one in Region 5? And maybe another in Region 8?

[Fisher-Dude]

A couple things that piss me off is some guy like Olmstead , American lives in the states most of the time but has the cash to reside in BC as well. You should have 10 year ties to the province before your aloud to buy an outfit in BC.
Also there are a few guys out there from the states that hunt 2 or 3 stone sheep with different outfitters in one season. I think that is bullshit. Just because you have the coin it gives you the right to greed out on one species. There should be a lifetime bag limitt for those greedy *******s on such things as Sheep. Once they have killed 2or three of one species thats it unless they move to BC.
My 2 cents worth .

If he doesn't meet "residency rules" per the Wildlife Act, he should lose his right to hunt in BC as a resident.

"resident" means
(a) a person who
(i) is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, whose only or primary residence is in British Columbia, and
(ii) has been physically present in British Columbia for the greater portion of each of 6 calendar months out of the 12 calendar months immediately preceding the date of making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act, or
(b) a person who
(i) is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada, but whose only or primary residence is in British Columbia, and
(ii) has been physically present in British Columbia for the greater portion of each of the 12 calendar months immediately preceding the date of making an application under this Act or doing another thing relevant to the operation of this Act;

[pro 111]

Why does it matter who the non-resident is? Just because one guy takes two a year or comes back every year, it won't affect the number of rams killed by non-residents. This has no impact on the allocation whatsoever, there are plenty of other 'greedy' folks willing to take his place. Those rams will be killed regardless of who the non-resident hunter is. The non-residents coming here to hunt are not to blame, they are only taking advantage of an opportunity. Local example: If a resident kills a deer in Region 3, would you label that person 'greedy' for going after another one in Region 5? And maybe another in Region 8?
I agree with you that it doesn't change anything in regards to resident harvest at this point in time. Mabey though down the road if these people had a bag limmit it would take some pressure of the Outfitters to always want more sheep for them and less for the resident hunters. I was a little off topic with my last reply it just doesn,t seem right that one guy from out of province can end up with a whole band of stone sheep in his trophy room just because he has the coin and our government allows it. As for the deer in different regions , that bc resident hunting. Fill those tags.

[BCrams]

Go here: http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/harvest_alloc/

There are 5 policy documents and 3 procedure documents plus an implementation plan that is in effect until the end of the 2011 hunting season. The new policy is supposed to be fully implemented for the 2012 season.


Shouldn't 'supposed' ...... be 'will' be fully implemented? :wink:

Guess time will tell the story on this one.

[Devilbear]

There should NOT be ANY "bag limit" of ANY BC game or fish for ANY foreign person and Americans ARE foreigners. They do NOT allow Canadians to kill their rare species in their country and will not even allow us to buy a box of bullets when in their country, without being treated like foreign terrorists.

I would prefer to see NO foreign hunting or fishing in Canada and harsh restrictions on any raw resource access for foreigners, this includes being allowed to use our wilderness areas for the same fees that we much pay, however, I accept that other BCers want to see some access by Yanks, etc., so that they can have relatives and friends hunt with them and also as "reciprocity' because they want to hunt in other countries. So, I think it proper for me and those who agree with my position to compromise to some extent and allow SOME, say 10% of a given harvest, "quota" for foreign hunters.....but, NO MORE!

As far as Olmstead, Bryan Martin and others like them are concerned, I would shut them down tomorrow and boot their asses out of Canada for good. Martin, should be in gaol for that last stunt with the illegal Grizzly and once the landraping Gordo gang is gone, things might just change.

So, the way to go, IMO, is to keep the pressure on the MOE and elected politicians to lower the total "quota" for non-residents to 10% max. of BC's annual harvest of game and then give fellow Canadians first crack at that. If, some rich Yank cannot get his "Grand Slam", aw, that is just too, too f**king bad, cry me a river and stay home in Texas.

[Fisher-Dude]

As far as Olmstead, Bryan Martin and others like them are concerned, I would shut them down tomorrow and boot their asses out of Canada for good. Martin, should be in gaol for that last stunt with the illegal Grizzly and once the landraping Gordo gang is gone, things might just change.


Should the NDP gain power in BC (God forbid!), Martin won't have any grizzly hunting, as there will be NO grizzly hunting for anyone, residents included.

[Devilbear]

I don't know, I suspect that any new NDP administration will be VERY loath to follow the old, discredited antics of Ujjal and his gang.....I am more conservative than most here and have not voted NDP since the early '80s, but, I doubt that anyone can really predict what a new government will do.......remember the "referendum" on the aboriginal claims that Gordo stated would determine his policies toward THAT ripoff charade.....and then??????

We both know that the real issue here is much greater than that little slimeball Dosanjh's decisions of over a decade ago.

[bridger]

Shouldn't 'supposed' ...... be 'will' be fully implemented? :wink:

Guess time will tell the story on this one.


yes it should be will and the moe and the government committed to that in 2007 if fact we have a letter saying that it will be implemented. I am not certain we can take that to the bank as the goabc presently has a tremendous amount of influence with the ministry. the bcwf and all resident hunters need to take a really strong stand on this or my guess it is it won't be done.

[Everett]

So does anyone have the region 6 break down?

[bridger]

shud have them next week. i do know that for the first time ever residents took more rams than non residents, probably due to the facct that the guides bookings were down due to the us economy.

[Everett]

Bridger do you have the break down of quota by guide territory in region 6 and 7b.

[Springer]

As an Alberta Non resident I would love the Opportunity to harvest a once in a lifetime Stone Sheep. We allow a lot of BC residents to apply for a variety of Big Game animals in our province including Trophy Big Horn Sheep.

[bridger]

Bridger do you have the break down of quota by guide territory in region 6 and 7b.


have for region 7b can get them for 6

[Devilbear]

As an Alberta Non resident I would love the Opportunity to harvest a once in a lifetime Stone Sheep. We allow a lot of BC residents to apply for a variety of Big Game animals in our province including Trophy Big Horn Sheep.

If, I were Premier of BC, you and all other Canadian citizens WOULD have a specific quota set aside for you to have some opportunity at precisely that and it would be by draw, perhaps "preference points".

It is, however, rather "interesting" that when I have posted this here, a number of other posters have decried the idea and, when I did so on Accurate Reloading, I was viciously attacked by other Canadians.

When, Gatehouse initiated a thread on 24Hr., almost 3 years ago, concerning Bryan Martin's violation of BC wildlife regs and I commented on foreign involvement in BC game management/allocation, I was actually threatened by some Yankee lout as I was by a Texan on AR because I dare to think we have the right to allocate OUR resources as we see fit.

This is not a big deal to me and of no import here, other than it demonstrates just how arrogant and "entitled" these wealthy foreigners are when BC sheep and other rare game species are at issue. This, is WHY I think that a total ban on foreign hunting may well be the best option to ensure that we Canadians have the access to OUR game that is our bloody birthright.

I suggest that you write to the Ministers and MOE brass here in BC and ask that they consider a system such as you have in Alberta so that guys like you could hunt here for sheep or whatever, even if you had to be accompanied by a resident. It is time we Canucks stood up and demanded what is ours!

[jml11]

I agree with you that it doesn't change anything in regards to resident harvest at this point in time. Mabey though down the road if these people had a bag limmit it would take some pressure of the Outfitters to always want more sheep for them and less for the resident hunters. I was a little off topic with my last reply it just doesn't seem right that one guy from out of province can end up with a whole band of stone sheep in his trophy room just because he has the coin and our government allows it. As for the deer in different regions , that bc resident hunting. Fill those tags.

I don't see how putting a bag limit on an individual non-resident will do anything to the sheep harvest rates, there is a large demand for Stone's Sheep hunts and just because one guy can't hunt them there will be dozens more waiting to take on that hunt. If an outfitter has trouble filling a hunt, a simple reduction in price and it will sell in a heartbeat. Applying quota's on the non-resident harvest is the only way to manage it, especially for a few of the modern day outfitters who only see $$ and care little about sustainability. Having no non-resident quota's on stone's sheep harvest could spell disaster for localized populations if a greedy outfitter gets a bit too greedy. Any smart outfitter would hopefully understand that sustainability equals a better product over the long-term but there will be some that can't see past the money aspect and try to kill every legal ram in their territory every year, mature or not.

Outfitting is a business, they will always want more sheep tags for themselves so that they can sell more hunts and make more money (in theory). In reality they can potentially make more with tighter quota's based on simple supply and demand. Less tags with the same demand equals inflated hunt prices. An outfitter could probably sell 5 hunts for $30,000 or 3 hunts for $50,000 and still pull in the same amount. He would likely end up ahead actually as he only has overhead (huge cost for the northern mountain outfitters) on three hunts instead of five, which means he pays 2 less guides (and all their associated overhead), wranglers and cooks, saves fuel on fewer flights, and the cost of maintaining horses.

[bridger]

good post pretty well sums it up imo. as far as taking sheep off quota the outfitters don't fill their quota's now and they can take as many hunters as they want. the quota's on non residents were put in place for a reason-- let's not forget that.

[Springer]

If, I were Premier of BC, you and all other Canadian citizens WOULD have a specific quota set aside for you to have some opportunity at precisely that and it would be by draw, perhaps "preference points".

It is, however, rather "interesting" that when I have posted this here, a number of other posters have decried the idea and, when I did so on Accurate Reloading, I was viciously attacked by other Canadians.

When, Gatehouse initiated a thread on 24Hr., almost 3 years ago, concerning Bryan Martin's violation of BC wildlife regs and I commented on foreign involvement in BC game management/allocation, I was actually threatened by some Yankee lout as I was by a Texan on AR because I dare to think we have the right to allocate OUR resources as we see fit.

This is not a big deal to me and of no import here, other than it demonstrates just how arrogant and "entitled" these wealthy foreigners are when BC sheep and other rare game species are at issue. This, is WHY I think that a total ban on foreign hunting may well be the best option to ensure that we Canadians have the access to OUR game that is our bloody birthright.

I suggest that you write to the Ministers and MOE brass here in BC and ask that they consider a system such as you have in Alberta so that guys like you could hunt here for sheep or whatever, even if you had to be accompanied by a resident. It is time we Canucks stood up and demanded what is ours!

Thats to bad you got the negative feedback Devilbear but thats the risk we all face putting our 2 cents on a message board and i doubt it will ever stop.
A Stone Sheep would be the ultimate trophy in my eyes.

In Alberta if we harvest a Bighorn we cant hunt them the following year.
There is also talk that all Sheep may go to special draw but that is just rumour. We all love Alberta's priority point system though compared to LEH etc.

Sorry to derail your thread Bridger......Just having Sheep fantasies again..:wink:

[boxhitch]

..........as the goabc presently has a tremendous amount of influence with the ministry. ..........strongly supported by the $150 mandatory 'non-resident hunter preservation fund' fee charged to each client. Do the math on that and see who buys the lunches in Victoria.

[Devilbear]

This has been a problem with BC's resource management agencies since I can remember and the BCFS has been among the most influenced by foreign-owned businesses and American-based unions, it is nothing "new" and is totally unacceptable, IMHO.

The attitudes I have encountered on some US-based forums really demonstrate just what the basis of our problem is and that is that many foreign nationals actually think that they have a RIGHT to hunt, fish and use our wilderness as they see fit, especially if they spend money here while doing so. Many BC and Canadian people go along with this for short-term profit, but, it is a "fool's paradise" and the GOABC has/is taking advantage of this attitude, as recent attempts to eliminate all resident "non-guided" hunting demonstrate.

The very idea that a GO can "buy lunch" for a MOE staffer or, as has happened in the recent past, give them gifts of saddles, etc, should make every BC resident totally POed and if we do not counteract this influence, we will lose an increasing share of OUR game and fish to foreign interests.

[leadpillproductions]

I would have no problem on an leh program for out of prov residents and americans . And the same for us in there prov