"Hunting Must be Banned"

[mungojeerie]

Here is a little link to a letter written to the paper and printed in the Maple Ridge - Pitt Meadows Times on Dec 14 2010.

Anyone feeling up to writing a rebuttal?

http://www.mrtimes.com/news/Hunting+must+banned/3974080/story.html

I'd get into this more now, but I have to head back to work...

Cut & Paste of article as follows:


Dear editor,
I was walking with my dog just past North Alouette Bridge on Neaves Road on Sunday, Nov. 28 at 7:45 a.m.
We had just started on the dike path when a shot rang out, and I watched a lone duck flying out of harm's way at a height that no shotgun pellet could reach.
I continued walking with my dog, and I observed a lone hunter carrying a shotgun walking on the path on the other side of the dike. I also noticed that he had no dog in tow.
At this moment, the duck decided to fly back to its original position.
When the hunter noticed this, he immediately dropped to his knee and pointed his gun.
The duck was flying toward me and over my head, at which time I closed my eyes, expecting to be showered with shotgun pellets.
Thankfully, the hunter realized that I would probably have been in dire straits had he fired his gun. I was speechless.
As I walked further up the dike, I came across empty shotgun shell cartridges, as well as a carcass of a duck lying in the middle of the frozen pond, obviously shot but not retrieved.
I thought that any hunter worth his salt hunted with a dog in order to retrieve his game. I guess firing a gun and killing fowl, and letting it rot or be eaten by other animals is fair game for a shotgun-wielding varmint.
I thought that council, other than discussing whether God is going to bless them or not before they talk council business, had better start getting serious about taking care of their constituency.
The Haney of yesterday is no longer.
The population growth, as well as the spread of suburbia, are now demanding changes in habits. It is time to remove hunting from our surroundings.
The dikes are meant for the populace to walk and enjoy what little nature there is left.
We should not have to run into "testosterone-fired" individuals with guns in their hands ready to shoot at anything that moves.
The modern generation does not need to shoot ducks in order to eat.
I can see if you were out in the bush and just relied on a shot-filled carcass for survival, but these days everyone shops at the local stores for groceries.
The time has come to ban shooting along the dikes.
I know that this is the so-called "Holy Grail" for those who own shotguns, but there are gun ranges where you can show your friends how good your aim is. My challenge to council and the populace is to bring an end to this senseless "tradition."
M.A. Muscat, Maple Ridge


Read more: http://www.mrtimes.com/news/Hunting+must+banned/3974080/story.html#ixzz18DPHBFtD

[fowlweather]

damn right this guy obviously doesnt know what he is talking about. any hunter with a brain will always make an effort to retrieve game, and if he cannot then he should change his strategy on when and where to shoot the game so it is retrievable. maybe the duck died of old age

[fowlweather]

everyone should go to this page http://www.mrtimes.com/news/Hunting+must+banned/3974080/story.html#ixzz18DPHBFtD
look at the photos, get the real story... its one shell and a pile of feathers probably from where the duck was plucked in field or eaten by a predator. no person would leave a carcass: even though there wasnt a carcass!!just a small pile of feathers

[islandboy]

everyone should go to this page http://www.mrtimes.com/news/Hunting+must+banned/3974080/story.html#ixzz18DPHBFtD
look at the photos, get the real story... its one shell and a pile of feathers probably from where the duck was plucked in field or eaten by a predator. no person would leave a carcass: even though there wasnt a carcass!!just a small pile of feathers

I have seen bigger piles of feathers when hawks took out one of my chickens. :-? Happened a couple of times when I lived in the Fraser valley. :icon_frow

[c.r.hunter]

I wonder if this ass-clown wants to cull all coyotes and raptors as that is more likely what caused that pile of feathers?

[darrin6109]

we need someone from the site that is a great writer to respond asap!
any takers out there?

[Gateholio]

There's a couple of things to address- Safety is #1. Start by pointing out the statistics on hunter safety and that it's a very safe sport, do some research to determine if any dog walker has EVER been hit with shotgun pellets. Point out that clearly the hunter was cognizant of safe hunting as he held fire when he noticed it wasnt' safe.

Definitely hit the "modern people dont' need ducks to eat and shop at grocery stores" BS by pointing out that you as a hunter supply your family with wild, free range organic meat, as this meat is healthier and lower fat than any other.

Point out that hunters strive to clean up after themselves, including shotshells and IIRC there are yearly :clean ups" done by hunters in the area that target not just dropped shells but lots of garbage left by other user groups.

Are the dikes for people to walk on, or to hold back water? Point out that hunters were there first and are more than willing to share with all user groups, and hunting only takes place a few months per year.

Definitely get some actual numbers of dollars generated by waterfowl hunting groups to fund waterfowl habitat preservation

I'm not familiar with the area but it's possible that some time in the past hunters fought to maintain habitat in that area, too.

Be sure to point out that the "duck remains" in the picture are simply some feathers and bone that are left to return to nature after the hunter removes his free range, unmedicated organic meat.

I dont' know the area, I'm sure some locals cold flesh this out a bit, but these are points I've used successfully in the past.

[Gateholio]

And avoid any reference to how this guy must have just been an idiot or whatever....It wont' help. And I didn't think it was illegal to hunt with out a dog, actually I thought it wasn't terribly uncommon to use waders and/or a boat without a dog in some places? Might want to give an explanation for that.

Post your letters here!:-D

[Gateholio]

One more point that i must stress:

It's important to "explain" hunting but what get's stuff banned is SAFETY ISSUES. Doing osme research and proving that it's not a safety concern is the number 1 thing. Because if you can demonstrate that there is no safety concern, then you can come to the conclusion that they "just dont' lik hunting" and that is an emotional response, so it can be easily argued against. Here is a letter I wrote recently when we had a "safety concern" brought up. Feel fre to plagiarize. :-D


Editor’s note: This is a copy of a letter sent to Whistler’s mayor and council, Lil'wat Nation/Mount Currie council and Squamish Nation council.

First, I'd like to clear up some erroneous and misleading information regarding bowhunting in Whistler that was included in the recent newspaper articles, then I'll make some comments regarding hunting. The Pique article included a photo of a mother bear and her two cubs with the caption: "Under current rules, this family of bears is vulnerable to crossbow hunting." This is completely false. It is unlawful to hunt any bear less than two years old or any bear in its company. I also read that "the wounding rate for animals shot by bows is significantly higher and they often suffer slow and agonizing deaths." What actual statistical evidence is being used to support this claim? Modern bowhunters are generally very efficient and humane, and suggesting that it is common that deer or bear are being wounded and left to die agonizing deaths simply isn't true.

I saw it stated that bowhunting is a "huge safety risk for residents and visitors" and this is also false. There is no evidence to support any claims that bowhunting is a safety risk for pedestrians or cyclists also using the area. In fact, bowhunting has been used extensively as a wildlife management tool in eastern parts of North America in and around suburban areas because it poses such a small risk. In all of Canada, incidents of bowhunters shooting other outdoor enthusiasts is virtually non existent.

Every day the Whistler Medical Clinic receives patients that have injuries (or even deaths) from mountain biking, skiing, boarding, bar fights, motor vehicle accidents etc. Has there ever even been a patient in Whistler due to a bowhunting mishap? I have been working in Whistler for 24 years and I've never heard of a bowhunter shooting a cyclist or hiker. Clearly, the most dangerous activity in Whistler is not and never has been hunting, and there is no evidence to support banning bowhunting would make Whistler a safer place. Although banning biking, snowboarding and driving cars might!

The main big game species hunted in the Sea to Sky corridor are blacktail deer and black bear. Both deer and black bear are plentiful in this area. Hunters take a relatively small amount of animals and there is no conservation concern for these species populations. Both of these species provide excellent, free range, unmedicated, organic meat to hunters’ families. Both species have meat retention regulations: There is no strictly "trophy" hunting of these animals; all the meat must be retained. We hear quite a bit about "sustainability" in Whistler, and hunting wild game for food is possibly the most sustainable method of obtaining food in Whistler!

Hunting in the Sea to Sky corridor has been taking place for a very long time. First Nations people have used the area constantly for centuries and still do. There are relatively few bowhunters that hunt around the edges of the RMOW (I've never seen a hunter at Lost Lake and I don't expect to). There is no evidence to show bowhunters are any sort of risk to the public, and suggestions that bowhunting is a huge safety risk should be viewed with a great degree of scepticism because of this. There is no conservation concern for deer or bear in the Sea to Sky area. Rather than a discussion of banning bowhunting, instead it should be encouraged as a sustainable method of obtaining the very best healthy, organic meat for your family.

A little education and some signage for hunters and all other user groups can go a long way toward mutual understanding, and would be a preferable route to take rather than banning an activity under very questionable pretences. The Pemberton Wildlife Association would be happy to help implement an education plan endorsed by Whistler Council.

[Dano]

I'll try and get a letter written tonight but I'm off on a holiday and won't be back to confirm it was me who sent it (when they call to confirm).
Good points gate, I'll bet more people get bitten by dogs than hit by pellets! Also, there are plenty of areas closed to shooting nearby (just a few km's from this spot), why wouldn't the writer go there if they are concerned? Probably too many people with dogs there......
Maybe we need to keep dog walkers etc out of the hunting area for their own sake? It's only a 3 month season so 75% of the year it will be open to everyone!(a little sarcasm there but not really too far fetched).
They found an empty shell, and a clump of feathers (probably not that close together). The shell shows someone fired their gun there and that they didn't pick up their hull. The dead bird shows some preditor or raptor had a meal there, that's it. Connecting the two is just speculation.
We should go to Safeway to get our meat? How many people have blood on their hands so the writer can have their Christmas dinner? I bet the fisherman in the Alouette don't bother the writer as much as the hunters. One could easily buy fish but most people aren't bothered by the fact fish are killed during fishing. It's mostly a gun thing from what I have seen.
The writer showed some knowledge about shotguns and pellets, and I liked that they felt we have a tradition of hunting. Too bad our traditions and hunting heritage don't hold any value to them.
Dano
P.S. For some reason, I think this may be the same person who wrote a letter 2 years ago. I think it was about a similar incident and that section of the Alouette is now closed to shooting. Someone shot a duck and they didn't think their daughter should have seen it die.

[303Brit]

Here's a rough start for someone. Tailor it to the area in question as i am not from the area i can't get into to many specifics. but if anyone has them about the clean up or the mallard tunnels etc. feel free to use this as a base if you wish.

"
Dear Editor;

I believe it is my responsibility to clarify a few of the misconceptions in the letter published on 14 Dec 2010 titled “Hunting must be banned”.

Firstly the writer talks about thinking that he/she would be shot by a hunter. When in their own writing the hunter noticed an unsafe condition and did not fire. This is exactly what is suppose to happen, if the shot in question is not shown to be a safe shot to and beyond the intended target it is not to be taken. There is no need to be speechless; the ethical hunter did what he/she is supposed to do in that situation. When you consider that according to Vital Statistics BC in 2002 deaths involving firearms = 9; deaths involving motor vehicles = 399. Firearms related deaths are significantly lower; I am not talking homicides (which generally are not committed with registered firearms)

Moving on to the shotgun shells, the picture only showed 1 shell, hunters are outdoor enthusiasts. We strive to leave the areas we hunt as good or better then the way we found them. Some local hunters in your area have even gone so far as to organize clean ups down at the marsh after hunting season is closed. Removing all sorts of garbage not just shotgun shells, but garbage left by other user groups of the area. The picture of the supposed carcass was merely a few feathers and remains of a bone or 2. For all anyone knows it’s the leftovers of a hawk or eagle kill.

As far as hunting with dogs, not all people hunt with dogs. Most hunters that hunt with out a dog ensure they have a means of recovery. Examples are hunting fields, using waders when hunting shallow ponds, boats, recovery poles, etc. Dogs are not a must for water fowling.

I believe that the dykes we initially created for 2 main purposes, 1 control the flow of water and prevent flooding; 2 create marsh and wetland habitat for animals. Not for people to walk on, this is a pleasantry of the efforts. A lot of the dykes were done in conjunction with Ducks Unlimited, which was founded by hunters and ecologists.

I believe that the modern generation would have far more respect and a better concept of ethics if more people did hunt. I prefer to provide an organic and healthy meat for my family. I choose to do this, as this is part of our countries heritage. I also don’t choose to decide how you provide for your family in this free country, or how you spend your recreational time in this wonderful province."

[darrin6109]

keep it going Dano and Brit

[Stéphane]

Great rhetoric. The only thing that could play against hunters in it is the stats. One could say that the ratio of drivers to accident is lower than the firearm one. Also, we drive all year round. Hunting season limited. I'd leave that stat out all together.

The rest is brilliant and well laid out. Thanks you for doing this.

[303Brit]

Great rhetoric. The only thing that could play against hunters in it is the stats. One could say that the ratio of drivers to accident is lower than the firearm one. Also, we drive all year round. Hunting season limited. I'd leave that stat out all together.

The rest is brilliant and well laid out. Thanks you for doing this.

The Canadian accidental death stats, 27.9% per 100,000 people; of which 0.1% is firearms; and 10.2% per 100,000 are transportation deaths; including motor vehicles, watercraft and other land transports. so I don't think that hurts us.
Add it if seen fit

As per


By Garry Breitkreuz, MP – December 13, 2001
1998 – BETWEEN 7.2 AND 11 MILLION GUNS IN CANADA – JUSTICE DEPT.
3.2 Key Projections - 3.2.1 Volumetrics
“The federal SDM [Service Delivery Models] assumes – based on cumulative research evidence – that the number of firearm owners and firearms will – in reality – fall between the low and medium range. [Footnote #2 - Surveys undertaken from 1989 and 1998 have indicated household ownership to be in decline, ownership was recorded at a high of 33% in 1992 and 17% in 1997 according to an Environics Survey – Focus Canada; initial results of the 1998 Angus Reid survey do not significantly affect prior analyses and findings.”]
The following are the baseline volumetric assumptions:
Canada
Low Range Estimates
= 2,400,000 firearms owners
= 7,200,000 firearms
Medium Range Estimates
= 3,100,000 firearms owners
= 9,000,000 firearms
High Range Estimates
= 3,800,000 firearms owners
= 11,000,000 firearms
SOURCE: Memorandum of Agreement Respecting the Federal-Provincial Financial Agreement Addressing the Administration of the Firearms Act and Regulations Between The Government of Canada and The Government of the Province of Ontario – APPENDIX ‘A’ SERVICE DELIVERY MODELS, DISCUSSION PAPER (Version #2a) Overview, Analysis & Development of a Baseline Model, Operations Transition Planning, Canadian Firearms Centre, May 19, 1998. NOTE: This Agreement with Ontario was signed by Justice Minister Anne McLellan on December 2, 1999 and by Ontario Solicitor General David Tsubouchi on September 14, 2000

Remember 3.8mil firearmowners didn't use their 11mil firearms to kill anyone today ;)

[Stéphane]

The Canadian accidental death stats, 27.9% per 100,000 people; of which 0.1% is firearms; and 10.2% per 100,000 are transportation deaths; including motor vehicles, watercraft and other land transports. so I don't think that hurts us.
Add it if seen fit

303
+1
I like it better this way. Unless they say the hunter "drove' to the hunting grounds. :-D

[303Brit]

+1
I like it better this way. Unless they say the hunter "drove' to the hunting grounds. :-D


I edited to add more

DesRosiers Automotive Consultants estimate that as of 2008 there are 75 cars on the road per 100 drivers. Not sure how many people over the age of 18 there are in Canada.

303

[mungojeerie]

Sounding good guys!

What I dislike the most about this is that the paper chose to print this letter. I can understand printing a letter that voices valid concerns or experiences but just reading this letter, how can you put any validity behind this person? The paper printed it because its left wing crazy controversial ranting.

Exactly as stated previously, the hunter did not fire because it was unsafe to do so.

The carcass is only feathers, proving nothing. The shot shell, likely a one off that a hunter missed while collecting his shells. Is it detrimental to the environment because its not biodegradable? yes, but will it negatively effect the writer? not likely.

It's not much different from a dog walker not picking up their dogs pile of crap. Yes its biodegradable but it sure wouldnt be nice to step in.

This is like me saying hey I went for a walk the other day, I saw a DOG WALKER! their dog barked at me! It made me scared and I closed my eyes as I thought for sure the dog would charge me and tear my throat out, but luckily it didn't. I also took some pictures of some dog poo that I stepped in and some pictures of the poo that accompanied my shoe all the way into my cars interior. There is no reason why people should have dogs and the dykes are for MY enjoyment not anyone elses especially a lowly dog! Dog walking must be banned immediately if we are to continue enjoying the limited green spaces left!

The biggest problem with this letter is that everyone who has any knowledge of hunting whether a hunter or not will likely read the article and quietly think to them selves "crackpot!" But the general public at large are easily scared into believing things about topics they know nothing about, reading this they will think holy crap! there is no way we can go walk the dykes anymore... its just not safe there are a bunch of testosterone pumped shotgun yielding varmints out there. We've gotta put a stop to this... count my vote in!

Keep er coming 303!

[Spy]

What I would like to see is.....


Active Hunting Area
Beware

[mungojeerie]

What I would like to see is.....


Active Hunting Area
Beware

Well I went for a walk on the Pitt River Dyke the other day, First off of Harris RD. Ran into a few dog walkers, both said they weren't aware you could hunt there but were friendly and wished me luck.

And the one on the bike was awfully thankful to me when he returned to the parking lot to find that the bike he forgot to tie off on his bike rack and which was in the middle of the road was safe and sound with me as I had posted a note on the gate and strapped the bike to my roof rack. A million thanks from him.

After I went for a walk on the dyke off of Reichenbach Rd... and the gate there had a big sign that says something along the line of "Caution this dyke is shared by hunters from september through march" Yet there was no such sign at Harris Rd nor have I seen a similar sign at the Alouette off of Neaves... We need more signage like this. At least then people won't be shocked at the possibility of seeing someone hunting, they will have some warning.

[Spy]

Well I went for a walk on the Pitt River Dyke the other day, First off of Harris RD. Ran into a few dog walkers, both said they weren't aware you could hunt there but were friendly and wished me luck.

And the one on the bike was awfully thankful to me when he returned to the parking lot to find that the bike he forgot to tie off on his bike rack and which was in the middle of the road was safe and sound with me as I had posted a note on the gate and strapped the bike to my roof rack. A million thanks from him.

After I went for a walk on the dyke off of Reichenbach Rd... and the gate there had a big sign that says something along the line of "Caution this dyke is shared by hunters from september through march" Yet there was no such sign at Harris Rd nor have I seen a similar sign at the Alouette off of Neaves... We need more signage like this. At least then people won't be shocked at the possibility of seeing someone hunting, they will have some warning.
Agreed cant do any harm,people are allot more comfortable when they know what,s up!:wink::-D

I think my sign is much better than the latter!

"No Hunting"

[303Brit]

What I would like to see is.....


Active Hunting Area
Beware

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/wldviewing/wvpittaddingtonmarsh.pdf

I think you will find on the bank half of the above brochure is a notice of the recreational activities that go on in the Pitt Management area and listed is waterfowling ;)

303

[Spy]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/wldviewing/wvpittaddingtonmarsh.pdf

I think you will find on the bank half of the above brochure is a notice of the recreational activities that go on in the Pitt Management area and listed is waterfowling ;)

303

I have not seen or looked at the document http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/wldviewing/wvpittaddingtonmarsh.pdf[/URL] , Im sure other users also have no idea!
A couple sign's couldn't hurt:-D, its better then the article "hunting should be banned":wink:
I think your letter will be a good counter attack!:-D

[mungojeerie]

The biggest problem with this letter is that everyone who has any knowledge of hunting whether a hunter or not will likely read the article and quietly think to them selves "crackpot!" But the general public at large are easily scared into believing things about topics they know nothing about, reading this they will think holy crap! there is no way we can go walk the dykes anymore... its just not safe there are a bunch of testosterone pumped shotgun yielding varmints out there. We've gotta put a stop to this... count my vote in!

Hmmm quoting myself.. is that cool? lol

I also wanted to add that when I was in college (took Fish, Wildlife & Recreation at BCIT) I had a girlfriend who was dead set against hunting. She didnt know anything about it other than it was dangerous, guns were dangerous and it was cruel to slaughter innocent animals.

During 2nd or 3rd term we had to write a paper and do a presentation on some topic of our choice.

She chose (And I give her super credit) hunting as her topic. Why? because it was a topic that was part of our schooling and likely part of her future career and because she realized that though she was against it, she had no real hard ground to stand on as to why.

After her presentation she felt differently. She realized the importance of hunting as a tradition, and as a special kind of bonding between individuals. She learned the values of hunting as a means of wildlife management. She learned of the extensive man hours and funds made available to wildlife organizations, land conservation, and habitat improvement on behalf of hunters. She came to realize that an animal living freely in the wild and killed quickly and humanely by a hunter lives a much better life than an animal raised for slaughter. In the end she was still not fond of hunting but she was accepting and understanding of those who hunted, her approach was to each their own rather than "you evil testosterone filled shot gun yielding varmint"

She even got her core and pal.... had to laugh when I watched her during her practical exam. She got the 12ga and when the instructor asked her to unload the firearm make it safe and return it to the table she laid the gun sideways to look at it when she racked it, the shell came flying out and smoked her right in the eyebrow. The instructor was looking down at the time and she came out of there holding back tears as blood started to trickle down from her split eyebrow lol.

[Gateholio]

What I would like to see is.....


Active Hunting Area
Beware

You DO NOT want that sign.

BEWARE implies hunting is a dangerous, negative activity.

Much better to call the area a "multi use" area and list the various activities.

[fowl language]

a big thanks to clark and 303 for their time and help in how to write a letter and to dano for writing the letter. as for the rest of you.... it,s numbers of responses.... not hoping someone else will do it. in the time you guys spent replying on here you could have got her done.come on fella,s. get off your butt....dano i just read this and the bcwf will respond to this from region2 . don,t forget to include the facts about the clean ups and the duck house,s we,ve put up around the lower mainland as giving back..... let,s get going on responses.. as you don,t want to end up like richmond ,where 2 elderly ladies got it closed because no body was paying attention or waiting for some one else to do it...fowl

[303Brit]

a big thanks to clark and 303 for their time and help in how to write a letter and to dano for writing the letter. as for the rest of you.... it,s numbers of responses.... not hoping someone else will do it. in the time you guys spent replying on here you could have got her done.come on fella,s. get off your butt....dano i just read this and the bcwf will respond to this from region2 . don,t forget to include the facts about the clean ups and the duck house,s we,ve put up around the lower mainland as giving back..... let,s get going on responses.. as you don,t want to end up like richmond ,where 2 elderly ladies got it closed because no body was paying attention or waiting for some one else to do it...fowl

Thanks Fowl, just trying to give a helping hand.

303

[303Brit]

You DO NOT want that sign.

BEWARE implies hunting is a dangerous, negative activity.

Much better to call the area a "multi use" area and list the various activities.


x2 on that one.

303

[Angus]

This is a letter that Longshotz prepared and sent to the editor yesterday. He's asked me to post it 'cause his computer skills are about as good as his shooting skills: limited:mrgreen:


The letter from M.S Muscat of Dec. 14 outlines a very unfortunate encounter. The subsequent highly emotional reaction was understandable.

That said, there are some issues here that need to be brought forth for purposes of clarity.

First and foremost, it was hunters that pioneered the environmental movement decades ago; perhaps before the author was born. The wildlife viewed today (including whatever the author sees) is there largely because hunters were, and still are, stewards of allthings environmental; not just hunted species.

This is a matter of documented record for any who do the research. I can speak of the entire area in question because I personally worked on several projects 35 years ago that ensured all wildlife can be enjoyed by future generations.

As to safety. ("being rained with shotgun pellets") This is, and always will be, a paramount fundamental with any hunter. If one were to statistically quantify this issue, I submit that death and grievous injury from any other outdoor sport or activity far and away outstrips hunting.

That this hunter did not fire when the author was spotted bears witness to this.

The author also mentions several other issues; dogs, comparison of buying meat at the supermarket, modern Haney and the changing demographics, as well as derogatory personal comments;"testosterone fired individuals". (Several women I know who hunt would be offended, and annoyed, that the author failed to discover women are now hunting in greater numbers than ever before, and shows no sign of slowing down anytime soon) and"shotgun wielding varmints".

I will do my best to address them.

Choosing to hunt with or without a dog has both merits and liabilities depending on the style of hunting. To chastise and/or assume all hunters (should) have dogs is incorrect. The author really needs to research this particular issue more thoroughly before passing comment.

Derogatory personal attack are something that we as a group have long since grown used to.

We have no trouble meeting those who have informed and objective evidence to support their position. Again the record will show this as fact.

I personally have sat in on committees in this regard.

Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows council, are composed of fine people. If hunter non-hunter conflict is an issue, there are vehicles in place and groups like the BCWF, Delta Waterfowl and Ducks Unlimited who can offer immeasurable experience to educate and reach an amenable solution.

At any time a meeting can be arranged to discuss these issues.



Gregg Rogers
Maple Ridge BC

[Stéphane]

What a well fact based educated rhetoric. It is always best to leave out the emotions and counteract with solid points.

Gregg, I thank you on behalf of all nature lovers!

[Dutch]

Interesting side note Dr. Art said 2000 people died last year in Canada from food poisoning ,which they undoubtedly bought in a store ,probably not from roasted Mallard...:wink::wink:

[mungojeerie]

Wanted to thank all for contributing ideas to addressing this letter formally and a special thank you to Longshotz for composing a well laid out professional letter and getting the job done.

The letter reads very well and the only thing that possibly could have been added to it is addressing the fact that the photos showed some feathers, not an entire duck carcass of an abandoned kill.

It's nice to have this addressed by someone with a seemingly long history of waterfowling and involvement in the local community. Thank you Gregg.

[Dano]

I also wrote a letter, a little long but I felt it was important to get a number of points across. I used a couple ideas that were posted here, I hope you guys are happy with what I did with them

Dear M. Muscat,
Your letter expresses a number of issues and I hope I can address them.
Hunters are not the “testerostone fired individuals with guns in their hands ready to shoot anything that moves”. By your own account, “The hunter realized that I would probably have been in dire straits had he fired his gun”. Sounds like this hunter was aware that areas open to waterfowl hunting are used by all residents of this area and they were ready for such a situation. You may not be aware of this, but there are several areas in Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge that are closed to the discharge of firearms. I suggest you stick to these areas for the hunting season, 75% of the year the hunting zones are not used by hunters. You can contact city hall or the governments agents office and get a Fraser Valley Special Areas Map, it outlines areas where you can take your dog for a stroll and the only things for you to worry about would be getting bitten by a dog or stepping in something left behind by a canine.
Did you know all hunters in BC must take a animal identification course and it also includes firearms safety? On top of that, anyone in Canada must take a firearms safety course and pass a gun handling test to get their firearms licence. Then the RCMP does a background check and deems the person safe to own and posses a firearm (thats a check to see and if they have a violent history, a record of spousal abuse, or mental illness among other things). They are then issued a certificate with their picture which allows them to posses and purchase a firearm (which is then registered). That doesn’t sound like a “shotgun wielding varmit” to me. As reserched by the RCMP, a hunter has been deemed fit to be considered a responsible gun owner. It may also be a surprise to you that individuals like myself can get approved to transport a firearm into the USA, you have to be of very high standard to get this approval but it’s a common thing for hunters to be given that privilage.
You found an empty shotshell, and saw the remains of a duck that was probably eaten by a bird of prey or a coyote. How did it get there? You speculate that it was left by a hunter but a more reasonable explanation would be a hawk or coyote caught the duck and ate it there. I have seen hawks catch a duck in flight, it is quite the specticle but one you may prefer to not watch as you prefer not to see things killed for food in person as you mentioned you prefer to see your meals laid out in a grocery store.
You are correct, hunting is a tradition and is part of Pitt Meadows Heritage. It has been practised in this area long before (as you stated), “the spread of suberbia”. It may also be a surprise to you that “the spread of suburbia” has removed all wildlife from areas that were traditional nesting and rearing habitat for many species. Hunters have been well aware of this and I think you and other readers would be interested to hear of a couple enhancement project hunters have been a big part of in this area.
They founded the Pitt Waterfowl Society back in the 1970’s. Local conservationist Richard Trethewey and my father, Bill Otway were part of the group that founded this organization. They organized a large campain to construct and install nesting boxes for Wood Ducks all along the Alouette rivers as well as other parts of the Fraser Valley. As a teen, I was part of a volenteer team that built and maintained these boxes. We kept records of their use and there was a large number occupied by the ducks and other species of birds. I even saw a owl and a squirrel using them for a home. Pitt Waterfowl was also responsible for introducing Canada Geese into the Fraser Valley back in 1972. Some would say it was too successful but I personally enjoy seeing the geese flying around the Pitt area.
Recently Delta Waterfowl installed a number of mallard nesting tunnels out around Pitt Marsh and Ladner. These nesting tunnels provide a secure environment for the ducks and protect them from flooding and preditors like raccons. A large group of hunters got together and organized a clean up of the Ladner marsh starting 2 years ago. These groups of hunters (as well as other groups like the BCWF) are active in cleaning up the environment and teaching youth about conservation.
I suggest M. Muscat respect the fact waterfowl hunting is part of the recreational activity that happens out in the Pitt Management area. Hunting has been carried out long before the “spread of suberbia” infringed on this area. It’s a part of it’s history and if you don’t like it, simply keep to the no shooting areas for 3 months of the year and continue to purchase your dinner at your local grocer.
Yours in Conservation,
Dan Otway

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa264/Canso_Dan/Dannest.jpg

[Angus]

Well done Dano!

[303Brit]

Nice work Longshotz, and Dano

303

[aliagha]

wow DANO, amazing job.

[mungojeerie]

Another fantastic letter from another person who has a history in the maple ridge/pitt meadows community. Excellent work Dano! Thank you!

[Stéphane]

Another fantastic letter from another person who has a history in the maple ridge/pitt meadows community. Excellent work Dano! Thank you!
100% agree with that. I'm learning something every time one of you puts up a new post. Dano, well crafted!

[Dano]

I see that the Times posted Greggs letter and another well written letter by a hunter I haven't had the pleasure to meet yet (He may have posted here with a nickname... but his name is Chris).
Good going guys!!!
Dan

[Danimal]

If this person is so concerned about public safety maybe they should look into the usage of vehicles. People who can't drive worth anything are getting licenses yet look at how many deaths due to improper use of vehicles happen every year! Yet we've been driving them for how many years? After seeing a drunk driving accident do we say, Lets ban all usuage of personal vehicles and all use public transit? Of course not! The percentage of hunting accidents are so few, and the hunting community definately cracks down on those caught poaching or mis using our ablilty to hunt. Why? Because we have people like this joker who is out to have all hunting banned and thinks we hunters are just a bunch of "testosterone-fired individuals". As a group I believe we hunters are the most respectable group around, we want to keep our God given rights to harvest off the land! Obviously this person doesn't know the behind the scenes of hunting (as do most of those anti's out there). The Feathers shown as many pointed out looks like a hawk or yote, not a duck carcass left, and one shell on the ground? come on! it happens that you can drop a shell and not find it! If they're concerned about their beloved city and it's cleanliness they should look at the area between 203rd and the centre of town and the garbage piles all around there!

[CRS]

I see that the Times posted Greggs letter and another well written letter by a hunter I haven't had the pleasure to meet yet (He may have posted here with a nickname... but his name is Chris).
Good going guys!!!
Dan
That other letter was submittedby me. Actually Dan, I think we did meet in the marsh this year, one morning. I had a little punt I was paddling, and let you and your crew and dog motor in first. I can understand peoples emotions and anger, but to write it in a way that is SO beyond reason, is what bothers me. Everyone has an opinion. Just tried to point out that "senseless traditon"...isn't.
Chris

[darrin6109]

is there a link so we can see the letters?

[vortex hunter]

what a stupid b_tch...........

[mungojeerie]

CRS a fantastic letter by yourself as well, The comparisons to the library and baking are perfect! Could be deemed as useless to anyone as Muscat has deemed hunting, yet there are countless reasons why libraries and baking are important to our society and traditions nevermind personal pleasure. Don't you just love the title the paper chose for your letter? "Hunter proposes killing libraries"

Hope Dano's makes it through as well.

Links to chris and gregg's letters below.

http://www.mrtimes.com/opinion/editorials/Hunter+proposes+killing+libraries/4008193/story.html

http://www.mrtimes.com/opinion/editorials/Open+discussion+needed+hunting/4008967/story.html

[darrin6109]

awesome job!
thats all i can say.

[Buck]

Thanks fellows for taking the time to write those great letters.

[steelheadSABO]

Ummmm dog's arn't the only thing capable of retrieveing game

[longshotz]

Thanks for all the kudos people. Just doing what needed doing.

[Cariboo Game Calls]

Twits like the guy that wrote this letter to the newspaper make me sick to my stomach!

Like the rest of the anti-gun crowd, he needs to wake up and realize that law abiding gun owners hunting a few ducks are the least of his worries in this country. It isn't the hunters that are shooting our freinds, neighbours, children and countrymen on a daily basis, it's the criminal element.

He's worried about walking down the dyke? He should be more concerned about walking down the street in the middle of his neighbourhood. That's where the gun wielding "testosterone-fired" drug dealing nuts and/or gang members are likely to deposit a piece of lead in him or his family.

This guy is just one more mouth-piece that doesn't know what the "H" he's talking about when it comes to hunting, or the need for and consumption of wild game. Him and his freinds can keep getting their food from the supermarket, and good luck with that considering what we've been hearing lately about expiry dates and the re-packaging. However, my freezer will continue to be filled with ducks, geese, deer, moose and any other healthy meat I can legally bag each hunting season.

[Spy]

Hunter proposes killing libraries


BY CHRIS BRADFORD, THE TIMES DECEMBER 21, 2010


Dear editor,

In response to M.A. Muscat’s letter [Hunting must be banned, Dec. 14 letters, The TIMES].

After reading your letter about your experience on the dike, it bothers me, as a hunter, that a negative light is shed on a “senseless tradition.”

The saying that “one bad apple can spoil the bunch,” applies to everything in life, and hunting is no exception.

The matter is made worse when emotionally charged phrases like “shotgun-wielding varmint,” “testosterone-fired,” and “shot-filled carcass” are used.

There are a number of things our society does not need.

Libraries are not needed, as all the information you need can be found on the web. Devices like “Kindle” let you buy and store all the books you’ll ever need.

Little girls baking a pie or cookies with grandma is no longer needed either. The stores are full of baked goods that are much cheaper than making them.

Sounds crazy doesn’t it?

Well to some, so too does “bringing an end to this senseless tradition.”

For some of us, the smell of neoprene waders, rubber boots, and coffee in the crisp predawn air, is the same as the smell of cookies baking in the oven.

The lessons passed from my father to me, and now from me to my son, are not at all senseless.

Decoy placement, calling techniques, water, boat, and gun safety, responsible shot selection, proper game handling and preparation, is equal to the measuring of flour, dangers of a hot oven, and pride of making something with your own two hands.

I hunt the marsh, from a boat that I paddle, without a dog, (though both my kids and I would like one) from inside the marsh. Respectfully out of view from the general public, I only hunt on the allowed days: Saturdays, Sundays, and Wednesdays.

I buy my migratory bird licence, knowing the conservation portion of the charge is what protects these wetlands from urban sprawl and the development of duck programs.

Hunting is NOT just about “killing,” but letters like yours portray it as such.

The dikes and the marsh are meant for all to enjoy. There are plenty of parks, dikes, and nature for walking in, that hunters have no access to, nor do we need to.

In closing, thank you for painting us all with the same brush.

Tonight, we’ll be having roast duck, with all the trimmings, lovingly prepared by my wife from a duck my son and I got a few weeks ago.

Then for dessert, we’re having some cookies my daughter made at my mother-in-law’s house, during a “grandma’s day” they had.

Then later, I’m going to curl up with a good book I picked up from the library… there’s just something about the “feel and smell” of an old book, that makes it hard to put down.

I guess that’s another “senseless tradition” that I’m not willing to let go of.

Chris Bradford, Pitt Meadows
This is the best letter I have ever read well thought out & written You deserve a medal!:-D Non hunters or antis have new respect for hunters after reading this letter, Im sure . Well done!:-D

[Big Pops]

Wow truely AMAZING job of writing those letters! Keep it up!

[BCsniper]

Gentlemen, those were great responses to her letter. Very well thought out and well presented. You two "Wordsmiths" really put a great outlook on the situation.

Thanks for the effort!