View Full Version : Hunting mistake. Be honest or walk away?
So you are a ethical hunter. You make a mistake. Not enough points, doe my mistake whatever. Do you risk getting charged by a over zelous CO or walk away?
Shooter Jr.
12-08-2010, 09:10 AM
It would probably be hard but I would phone my self in a explain my mistake and take whatever consequences come with it, really, whats the difference between me and any other poacher if I were to walk away?
bigwhiteys
12-08-2010, 09:11 AM
So you are a ethical hunter. You make a mistake. Not enough points, doe my mistake whatever. Do you risk getting charged by a over zelous CO or walk away?
I would self report the issue, deal with it and move on. Be sure of your target and these mistakes just don't happen.
Carl
sawmill
12-08-2010, 09:21 AM
I have a friend who mistook a 5 for a 6 pt. elk,and turned himself in,even brought the cleaned animal in to the C.O.He got shithammered.1250$ fine,rifle siezed and a 1 year suspension.So...........
If an honest mistake was reported and treated as such I think there would be less game left in the bush.If they come down on a guy full force then you would have to be a fool turn turn yourself in.
Of course make sure of your critter before you shoot but it can happen.
mikek blacktail
12-08-2010, 09:24 AM
I wouln't leave it but that's all I'm saying,if my kid was there it would be reported by myself...
Fastest way to go from a hunter to a poacher. Turn yourself in. HBC users are famous for distancing themselves from those who make mistakes. No tolerance for someone making a mistake. I've always maintained, everyone makes mistakes. It's how you deal with it that defines character. If you are a hunter and you make a mistake, it doesn't make you a poacher. It confirms you're human.
blacktailslayer
12-08-2010, 09:27 AM
In my experience I have found lots of game shot and left. Just last year in the EK I found a really nice whitetail shot in the head and left. It was in a slash, easily found. Myself or members of my hunting party have found 6 or so mule deer shot and left that were not 4 points. We have also found 2 5 point elk shot and left in the 6 point season. The sad thing is I live on the Island, I hunt in the Kootenays etc for 2 weeks a year if I am lucky.
On the other hand I hunt on the Island all the time, and in 20+ years I have never found a deer shot and left by another hunter. The only difference between the two is point restrictions!!!
Im sorry but!,,,,,
First i dont make mistakes. I am always shooting on a positive ID
But lets say i am hunting with a rookie. There is a 3pt with brows and a 4pt up top standing beside each other. In a 4pt plus mulie season. I tell the rookie to shoot the 4pt, Instead of being specific and saying "shoot the deer on the left".
So now we have a three point in a 4point season.
I cant risk getting a mad CO or anything stopping me from hunting. I would make some serious repromands to the shooter and myself for letting it happen. Then i would smuggle the deer out of the forrest.
Reasonings,
First, I cant risk the loose of my right to hunt.
Second, The meat is delt with "Ethically" and not wasted. (im sure it would be confinscated and hit the dump)
Third, This is a bad one, But lets face it there is nowhere near enough Conservation officers out there. So the chance of getting caught is low.
Now I will never have to worry about this because I dont make mistakes. And I hunt with people who dont make mistakes. I grill my new friends to make sure they dont make mistakes.
I know what i suggested above is illegal, So do what you will. But if the worst nightmare were to happen this is what i would do.
rocksteady
12-08-2010, 09:31 AM
I highly doubt that you will see anyone on here state that they would walk away, that would just be opening up themselves for being crucified by the membership.
And in all reality, what you say/think right now could be a whole pile different than once you drop the hammer in the middle of nowhere on a critter, walk up on it and find out that its not a legal critter...Then the brain will spin a million miles a minute of how to get out of the situation unscathed....Easiest way...Walk away...If there are witnesses, different story...If you don't turn yourself in, they may do it for you, so most would take their lumps....Not because they want to but they know they have to....
blacktailslayer
12-08-2010, 09:31 AM
I know a guy who got hammered for this too. Guy shoots a cow elk on his LEH, bullets goes right through the lungs and kills the calf behind her. No idea calf was even there. He reported it and they hammered him anyway.
I have a friend who mistook a 5 for a 6 pt. elk,and turned himself in,even brought the cleaned animal in to the C.O.He got shithammered.1250$ fine,rifle siezed and a 1 year suspension.So...........
If an honest mistake was reported and treated as such I think there would be less game left in the bush.If they come down on a guy full force then you would have to be a fool turn turn yourself in.
Of course make sure of your critter before you shoot but it can happen.
blacktailslayer
12-08-2010, 09:38 AM
People make mistakes, read my post on the cow and calf elk. I know another guy who shot 2 deer on the island with one shot. Hit one in the lungs and one in the head. Luckily both were bucks and he just tagged them both. He had no idea the other deer was behind it.
Im sorry but!,,,,,
First i dont make mistakes. I am always shooting on a positive ID
But lets say i am hunting with a rookie. There is a 3pt with brows and a 4pt up top standing beside each other. In a 4pt plus mulie season. I tell the rookie to shoot the 4pt, Instead of being specific and saying "shoot the deer on the left".
So now we have a three point in a 4point season.
I cant risk getting a mad CO or anything stopping me from hunting. I would make some serious repromands to the shooter and myself for letting it happen. Then i would smuggle the deer out of the forrest.
Reasonings,
First, I cant risk the loose of my right to hunt.
Second, The meat is delt with "Ethically" and not wasted. (im sure it would be confinscated and hit the dump)
Third, This is a bad one, But lets face it there is nowhere near enough Conservation officers out there. So the chance of getting caught is low.
Now I will never have to worry about this because I dont make mistakes. And I hunt with people who dont make mistakes. I grill my new friends to make sure they dont make mistakes.
I know what i suggested above is illegal, So do what you will. But if the worst nightmare were to happen this is what i would do.
People make mistakes, read my post on the cow and calf elk. I know another guy who shot 2 deer on the island with one shot. Hit one in the lungs and one in the head. Luckily both were bucks and he just tagged them both. He had no idea the other deer was behind it.
Dont get me wrong. I know mistakes happen. And i wouldnt blame some one for making one.
And the 2 deer one bullet thing, On the island i can see that happening quite easily.
I have seen a lot of dead game myself shot by mistake. But i whole heartedly believe that 90% of these animals are Shot by people making stupid decisions and not mistake.
I'll re-word myself.... It would be a freak of nature, more chance of getting struck by lightning than me killing an animal i was not allout to.
Im not being stuck up here but when i am shooting some thing i am paying extream attention to the animal and its back drop.
There is a big difference between a paocher, and an honest hunter who makes a mistake...although if everyone took the time to properly assess their quarry, few mistakes would be made.
When there is a point restriction on antlers, there should be almost no mistakes made, as either the animal has the points or it doesn't. What happens is that hunters kinda panic, thinking they better shoot quilk or the animal will get away, or shoot as it's running away, then realize after they made a mistake. Very sloppy in my opinion and there should be some sort of a penalty for this behavior, although making mistakes like that doesn't mean an individual is a bad person, or even a bad hunter.
In some parts of Alaska, moose must have a 50 inch or greater outside spread to be legal...number of tines doesn't matter. Imagine how tough judging that would be!
mijinkal
12-08-2010, 10:01 AM
A very good friend of mine shot a 5 point elk last year. He said it was an accident and he decided to turn himself in right away. He gutted it and got it to the back of his truck and drove it to the CO office.
When he got to the CO office, the officer was on the phone and he says, "don't worry, he just walked in the door". Somebody had called it while he was driving with it in the back of his truck. He got a small fine, but it would have been a lot worse if he didn't turn it in.
You never know when eyes are watching you.
Personally, I'm always careful and I obviously don't plan on making a mistake. But mistakes happen and you never know if or when they will happen.
I plan on doing the right thing and turning myself in, hopefully I'll do it in the heat of the moment, wich is harder than you think.
carnivore
12-08-2010, 10:11 AM
Dont get me wrong. I know mistakes happen. And i wouldnt blame some one for making one.
And the 2 deer one bullet thing, On the island i can see that happening quite easily.
I have seen a lot of dead game myself shot by mistake. But i whole heartedly believe that 90% of these animals are Shot by people making stupid decisions and not mistake.
I'll re-word myself.... It would be a freak of nature, more chance of getting struck by lightning than me killing an animal i was not allout to.
Im not being stuck up here but when i am shooting some thing i am paying extream attention to the animal and its back drop.
I agree 100%. If your SURE of your target how can it be a mistake? If your not SURE, don't shoot and you won't make a mistake. I can't think of anything much worse than having "Shooter's Remorse".
Prowler
12-08-2010, 10:20 AM
Im sorry but!,,,,,
First i dont make mistakes. I am always shooting on a positive ID
Now I will never have to worry about this because I dont make mistakes. And I hunt with people who dont make mistakes. I grill my new friends to make sure they dont make mistakes.
Wow....:-| Thank god there are patron saints like you out there. Totaly infalable, and ethicle hunters.. I wanna be just like you when I grow up..
tomahawk
12-08-2010, 10:22 AM
So you are a ethical hunter. You make a mistake. Not enough points, doe my mistake whatever. Do you risk getting charged by a over zelous CO or walk away?
You answered your own question with your quote "So you are a ethical hunter". An ethical hunter would not walk away and would make sure the animal has been identified before the shot leaves the barrell.
takla1
12-08-2010, 10:29 AM
ive had to do many visual re TAKES on animals in the field trying to count points,worst are elk at a distance if you ask me,closeing the distance will always solve the problem.If you get busted by the animal closeing the distance so be it.I know ive only got so any yrs of hunting left and there all too precious to give up due to stupid mistakes in the field!
blackwater moose
12-08-2010, 10:44 AM
Fastest way to go from a hunter to a poacher. Turn yourself in. HBC users are famous for distancing themselves from those who make mistakes. No tolerance for someone making a mistake. I've always maintained, everyone makes mistakes. It's how you deal with it that defines character. If you are a hunter and you make a mistake, it doesn't make you a poacher. It confirms you're human.
i agree, the difference between poaching and making a mistake is intent.then your character gets defined.
I know a guy who got hammered for this too. Guy shoots a cow elk on his LEH, bullets goes right through the lungs and kills the calf behind her. No idea calf was even there. He reported it and they hammered him anyway.
Anyone can make a mistake!! Doesnt matter if your just starting out or a seasoned veteran. Shit happens. It is just the law of averages something will go wrong. When a honest hunter brings an animal to a CO and he gets nailed doesnt this create a mind set in even ethical hunters??
I would suggest this needs to be looked at. I dont know what CO presence you see where you hunt. I have better luck of seeing a 200 typical whitetail than a CO. How productive is over Zelous ticket writing going to improve honesty when you get nailed for it. If you dont touch the animal and walk away you wont get caught. That is just how the law works. This needs to be addressed from a enforcement point of view.
Bistchen
12-08-2010, 10:51 AM
Fastest way to go from a hunter to a poacher. Turn yourself in. HBC users are famous for distancing themselves from those who make mistakes. No tolerance for someone making a mistake. I've always maintained, everyone makes mistakes. It's how you deal with it that defines character. If you are a hunter and you make a mistake, it doesn't make you a poacher. It confirms you're human.
Well said..........
Its easy to make yourself look good on a public forum like most people try to do here, but anything can happen out in the bush. Thats why I only believe about 10% what people on this forum write.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 10:58 AM
I think if you can't "positively" identify the animal, there's simply no reason/excuse for squeezing the trigger in the first place.
On the other hand,
I know of a situation that happened and this is how it unfolded.
There was a guy who was hunting on ranch land with permission. He was glassing from a vantage point that overlooked a hay field. He saw a nice legal buck and crept up to a closer shooting distance. The deer was standing beside a large gathering of hay bails { the big round ones, probably 50 of them}.
He only saw the one buck during the entire time he was there. After getting into position, he shot the deer, and it moved behind the left side of the stack of hay bails. He sat for a moment, knowing {positively} that he had hit the buck with his shot. After a couple minutes, he walked toward the hay bails, and to his surprise, the buck started running away from behind the opposite end {right side} of the hay bail stack, toward the bush. He raised his rifle and fired a second shot, resulting in the deer falling dead.
He then went to retrieve the deer, and drag it toward the stack of hay bails, so he could put his gun and coat on one of them, and start the field dressing. To his amazement, when getting there, he looked and saw another buck, laying behind the stack of hay, dead. This ended up being the buck he shot first, and the buck he shot second , was a totally different buck, that had obviously been there all this time. He assumed it was the same deer.
He was dumbfounded. He got a hold of the rancher {who also happens to be a hunting guide in his spare time}and told him about what just happened. The rancher asked him what he thought he should do, and the hunter replied that he was going to call the CO and report the issue as he only had one tag. Although they were friends, the rancher said this was the right decision, but, if he didn't call, he would have to. The CO arrived and was taken to the scene while being told the going's on of what happened. After reviewing the situation, the CO said he could see why the hunter shot twice and could understand him thinking it was the same deer. The CO asked the rancher if he had a deer tag and he said he did not {tagged out}, but that his wife who was at the ranch house, did have a tag. The CO let the rancher's wife cut her tag for the second deer, and said he wished more people were like them, coming forward as they did. He obviously told the hunter to be sure of things in future hunting ventures, shook everybody's hand and that was the end of it.
Yes they got the right CO that day, but good things happen to honest people "MOST" of the time. No matter what the outcome, do the right thing and make the call.
Sorry for being so long winded.
Wow....:-| Thank god there are patron saints like you out there. Totaly infalable, and ethicle hunters.. I wanna be just like you when I grow up..
Wholly? What kind of emottocon is there that will let you know what im sounding like?
Geeze man, i bet if we were sitting in a truck talking about this while hunting you would get it. Nor would you call me a "Patron saint"
This one is for that: What did you screw up and now your trying to defend it? Or did your friend? Maybe if you didnt screw up you would get where im comming from.
No i'd never talk to you like that face to face. But id hope you wouldnt patronize me either.
Do you turn yourself in when you accidentally blow a red traffic light or speed?
No.
You already know you made an honest mistake, so what good would going to the police station be? A fine, lose your drivers licence?
Same goes with hunting. fine, lose your licence etc.
Nothing in nature gets wasted, and if you decide to sneak it home well then no loss, you used the animal.
I hope I am never put in such a position, I'm not sure what I would do unless it actually happened. this is just my thoughts/opinion.
Tenacious Billy
12-08-2010, 11:25 AM
Do you turn yourself in when you accidentally blow a red traffic light or speed?
No.
You already know you made an honest mistake, so what good would going to the police station be? A fine, lose your drivers licence?
Same goes with hunting. fine, lose your licence etc.
Nothing in nature gets wasted, and if you decide to sneak it home well then no loss, you used the animal.
I hope I am never put in such a position, I'm not sure what I would do unless it actually happened. this is just my thoughts/opinion.
Well said.
bearhunter338-06
12-08-2010, 11:42 AM
I have never made a mistake in all my years hunting. I have turned down shots on game that I was unsure of. This being said I know "Shit Happens" and to be honest with you I realy could not say what I would do. I hunt for food, so most likely I would try and get it home.
Jagermeister
12-08-2010, 11:45 AM
Ethical hunters do not make mistakes. An ethical hunter is absolutely sure of the shot before he drops the hammer. Sheep hunters are prime examples of this. They do not take the shot unless they are positively affirmed that there will be no doubt after of the shot. An ethical hunter will pass on a marginal shot.
Sounds holier than thou? It is, I will pass on the shot before making a mistake.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 11:50 AM
If you "DO" make a mistake and don't turn yourself in, the next time you an your buddies are bullsh!tting about poachers, you better be shuttin yur hole, cause your one of them, like it or not.
If you "DO" make a mistake and don't turn yourself in, the next time you an your buddies are bullsh!tting about poachers, you better be shuttin yur hole, cause your one of them, like it or not.
Well then I guess we can't talk about criminals, cause almost all of us break the law. I think the line is drawn with intentions (to an extent) and severity.
Would you Call someone who broke a traffic law by honest mistake a criminal?
If not then why would you call someone who made an honest mistake a poacher?
BlacktailStalker
12-08-2010, 11:58 AM
Funny how all this talk about poachers, mistakes, not being "ok" with the self inflicted repercussions of not being cautious enough BEFORE pulling the trigger, yet at the end of the day whats wrong is wrong.
The % of honesty revealed in threads like this is always mixed with a big b.s factor IMO.
Blair
12-08-2010, 12:02 PM
I found a nice big-bodied 4 x 4 mulie in region 5-3 last year. It had a piece of flagging tied to the tree beside it, so whoever shot it obviously found it. It was a long way from the road (5 hrs on horseback in a no motorized vehicle area) so one would assume that the hunter was no rookie. I still wonder why it was left for the ravens, wolves and bears.
He might not have been able to find his way back to it.
Although. If you are 5hr via horse back there and have no means to pack out the animal,,,,,, begs the question.
Tenacious Billy
12-08-2010, 12:08 PM
Ethical hunters do not make mistakes. An ethical hunter is absolutely sure of the shot before he drops the hammer. Sheep hunters are prime examples of this. They do not take the shot unless they are positively affirmed that there will be no doubt after of the shot. An ethical hunter will pass on a marginal shot.
Sounds holier than thou? It is, I will pass on the shot before making a mistake.
That is an extremely bold statement. So then are you suggesting that bad things can never happen to good people - and if they do, it's simply a by-product of their ethical inadequacies? Following that logic, even a hunter that reports an honest mistake to the COs lacks ethics.......I would tend to disagree.
Phreddy
12-08-2010, 12:10 PM
Probably the best way to go, to avoid an overzealous C.O. would be to phone in from a pay phone and tell them what happened and where the animal can be retrieved for distribution to the needy.
Had a bad experience with a C.O. in Clearwater about 20 yrs ago over marking the wrong date on a moose tag. I had been out for a week and thought it was Wednesday, but it was actually Thursday. Mentioned this to him and got crapped all over and issued a warning. Never again.
weatherby_man
12-08-2010, 12:14 PM
I don't think making a mistake equates to purposefully killing animals out of season. Luckily or otherwise I haven't had to deal with this. If it does happen I think you have do what you know to be right. Everyone's situation and response to things and what they think is right is different for many reasons but in the end you're the one who has to look yourself in the mirror. If it happened and you had to feed your family and used the meat I would likely have no problem with that but I would also expect you to not go back out and fill your tag with a legit one.
It all goes back to be sure of your shot as others have stated. Thats not arbitrary holier-than-thou ethics, its a main rule of hunting.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 12:18 PM
Well then I guess we can't talk about criminals, cause almost all of us break the law. I think the line is drawn with intentions (to an extent) and severity.
Would you Call someone who broke a traffic law by honest mistake a criminal?
If not then why would you call someone who made an honest mistake a poacher?
If you want to compare a traffic violation vs retaining an illegal animal, fill yer boots. Takes all kinds I guess.
The fact of the matter is, if you retain an illegal animal, mistake or not, without reporting it, it's defined as poaching.....this isn't debatable, it's a fact.
If you want to compare a traffic violation vs retaining an illegal animal, fill yer boots. Takes all kinds I guess.
The fact of the matter is, if you retain an illegal animal, mistake or not, without reporting it, it's defined as poaching.....this isn't debatable, it's a fact.
Why can't I, it is the law is it not? Why is there a dividing line. Just because people deem it not that big of deal to speed etc.
The fact of the matter is, if you break a traffic law, mistake or not, without reporting it, it's defined as breaking the law.....this isn't debatable, it's a fact.
Is a criminal not someone who breaks the law?
The only difference is you place more value on the laws of hunting. Why is that? I bet there are people that consider it more of an offense to speed and endanger the lives of many people than killing a single deer on accident out in the bush.
So I could fill my boots and call you a criminal and unethical because you probably broke the law on your drive to work today and didn't report yourself, but that would be silly wouldn't it?
All I am trying to say is to label someone who made 1 honest a mistake a poacher is not right. IMO.
Gee wiz guys. Sure am glad this debate isnt happening in a camp with lots of Crown Royal. Might get ugly. It is a very important topic though. Be good to hear from a CO if they are allowed to comment without talking to the Pulbic Affairs people first. I dont know why being honest about making a mistake should be dealt with so harshly at times. The best source of information COs have is us. If they turn it into the us and them mentality they will lose a good some support. Considering their budgets even restrict gasoline to travel we should be on their side and them on ours.
M.Dean
12-08-2010, 12:34 PM
I would Penalize my self!!! First off, as soon as I counted the points, 123--- 123??? ---123???? Where's the God Dam Fourth Point??? There was four bloody points when I fired! I'd take my Rifle and smash it all to shit against a Big Fir Tree!!! Then, my Quad!!! I'd light it on fire and throw my Bino's in, camera, and anything to do with hunting go's in the fire!!! I'd clean the Animal that I mistakenly shot, slug it on my back and hike all the way to the nearest CO's house!!! Once there, I'd get on my knee's and ask him to shoot me!!! Yes, shoot me dead!!! I don't put up with any of this " I though it was a four point shit"!!! If by any chance the CO wouldn't shoot me, I'd walk out into traffic, hoping to get killed by a Big Truck! I believe in the Death Penalty, no if's, and's or butt's, you screw up, your a Dead Man!!! If by some fluke chance I did survive the bullets and traffic, I'd spend the rest of my life spreading the word of the "Perfect Shot", I'd travel from town to town by foot teaching hunters how to Identify there pray properly!!! I would also show short Video clips of some HBC members who, them selves are "God Like"!!! A foul word never pass's there lips, every shot they fire is a One Kill Shot, and none of these few have ever Crapped in the Woods!!!!!! Never, but Never have these Chosen few ever made such a Horrific Mistake like I!!! My head would hang in shame as I shuffled past them, eyes on the parched earth where they belong, and I'd walk away, the stones they fling at me leave bleeding gash's in my flesh, but I deserve to lose every drop of blood in my poaching body!!!Now, I must pay for my sin's until the end of time, the sight of that one missing Tine, etched in my mind for ever!! The End! ( In reality, I'd gut it, take it home and eat it, nobody in my house eats the horns any way!) :grin::smile: Note, Happy Face's!
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 12:34 PM
No excuses for making a mistake in the first place, why would you? Make a mistake?
Jel .. Or tell me how you could make a mistake, then we will talk it sprock it.
Talk about how you would make a mistake in the first place .. then I'll riddle holes into it and make you feel so bad you'll you'll, well you know.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 12:40 PM
Why can't I, it is the law is it not? Why is there a dividing line. Just because people deem it not that big of deal to speed etc.
The fact of the matter is, if you break a traffic law, mistake or not, without reporting it, it's defined as breaking the law.....this isn't debatable, it's a fact.
Is a criminal not someone who breaks the law?
The only difference is you place more value on the laws of hunting. Why is that? I bet there are people that consider it more of an offense to speed and endanger the lives of many people than killing a single deer on accident out in the bush.
So I will fill my boots and call you a criminal an unethical because you probably broke the law on your drive to work today and didn't report yourself.
Give it a shake would ya.
Your talking apples and oranges dude. Unless you kill/hurt someone while your driving. It's not the same
I imagine by your evaluation, you'll be one of the guys taking your mistake home with you, without reporting it {if you were to make one}. Again, your comparing night to day IMO.
Gee wiz guys. Sure am glad this debate isnt happening in a camp with lots of Crown Royal. Might get ugly. .
Well in Prowler and I's case. He lives in Port Alberni and I lived in Ukee for many years. So there would be Crown and there would be a big fire. With threats to be thrown in it!
But id like to think that in all these cases if you were face to face with the person the debate would be alot more friendly.
No bodies dum enought to call someone a poacher to their face unless they are.
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 12:47 PM
Tell us HOW you could make an honest mistake hunting deer or any animule.
JP .. An honest mistake, go!
steel_ram
12-08-2010, 12:48 PM
Weird stuff happens, like a calf standing broadside behind a legal broadside bull. I didn't shoot, but almost did. By the shelacking I got by the rest of the camp, others would have.
I'm very careful and know, in heinsight that I've let some pretty nice opportunities walk, but stuff happens.
I do notice a few on this board, that seem to lose animals regularly, or "miss". Some of the most successful hunters I know have the "gotta put lead in the air", attitude. They bring game home more than most, but it makes me wonder.
Give it a shake would ya.
Your talking apples and oranges dude. Unless you kill/hurt someone while your driving. It's not the same
I imagine by your evaluation, you'll be one of the guys taking your mistake home with you, without reporting it {if you were to make one}. Again, your comparing night to day IMO.
Well lets agree to disagree then.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 12:50 PM
Well lets agree to disagree then.
Done, have a good day. :wink:
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 12:55 PM
Tell us HOW you could make an honest mistake hunting deer or any animule.
JP .. An honest mistake, go!
I think the post I made #22 of this thread was an honest mistake. The man is a respected , ethical hunter, and would never do this on purpose. You can judge for yourself though. I myself, know the man and he felt horrible for a long time after this happened.
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 12:58 PM
What's the common excuse used for shooting a three point bull moose in spike/fork?
Jah helly Berry
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 01:02 PM
What's the common excuse used for shooting a three point bull moose in spike/fork?
Jah helly Berry
Couldn't tell ya, fill us in. :mrgreen:
Sleep Robber thinks this question is "loaded" :wink:
M.Dean
12-08-2010, 01:06 PM
What's the common excuse used for shooting a three point bull moose in spike/fork?
Jah helly Berry I was hungry, and it looked like it would make a real nice dark Gravy to go with the nice big roast you could cut with a fork???
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 01:10 PM
What's the common excuse for shooting a cow moose in bull only season?
Jel (Danko Jones) push me, pull me, drag me to the ground, take me out on a stretcher.
.. Garth (babbling) Brooks
M.Dean
12-08-2010, 01:13 PM
What's the common excuse for shooting a cow moose in bull only season?
Jel (Danko Jones) push me pull me throw me down take me out on a stretcher
.. Garth (bubbling) Brooks You've got a "Card", you tell me!
ruger#1
12-08-2010, 01:14 PM
You've got a "Card", you tell me! He has a masterbater card.
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 01:17 PM
OK here's one I heard, It was standing just in front of an old up rooted tree and the old gray branches looked like just like a set of bull moose antlers. I mean it looked exactly like a bull .. I ain't kiddin, honest man.
Jel .. Believe it? Or not. An honest mistake or someone needs to go get some bifocals?
LukaTisus
12-08-2010, 01:20 PM
Someone I know shot a cow after watching it for half an hour. When he had a bull tag. Now how does that happen?
I'd rather let the animal walk, than take a stupid chance and shoot. Even if I'm looking at a 4x4 mulie, he's not getting dropped unless I know absolutely certain that he's legal. Head obscured by branches so I can't get a clear view? Don't care how big he is, he's staying in the woods.
goatdancer
12-08-2010, 01:22 PM
Do you turn yourself in when you accidentally blow a red traffic light or speed?
No.
You already know you made an honest mistake, so what good would going to the police station be? A fine, lose your drivers licence?
Same goes with hunting. fine, lose your licence etc.
Nothing in nature gets wasted, and if you decide to sneak it home well then no loss, you used the animal.
I hope I am never put in such a position, I'm not sure what I would do unless it actually happened. this is just my thoughts/opinion.
What the hell does speeding and running red lights have to do with killing an animal that you are not allowed to kill? You didn't 'accidentally' run that light or speed, no matter how you try to polish that idea. If you make a mistake while hunting, suck it up and report it. Sure there could be some consequences but that's the way it is. You're not going to jail. Most of the time the costs will be reasonable and you'll learn a very valuable lesson. There are enough jerks out there who shoot first and count points later. Somewhere down the road that kind of attitude will come back to bite all of us by the ass.
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 01:23 PM
Luka tisus is cool
jml11
12-08-2010, 01:30 PM
Well then I guess we can't talk about criminals, cause almost all of us break the law. I think the line is drawn with intentions (to an extent) and severity.
Would you Call someone who broke a traffic law by honest mistake a criminal?
If not then why would you call someone who made an honest mistake a poacher?
Not sure you can make an honest mistake driving? There are enough obvious signs out there telling us how fast to go and where to stop. If you happen to miss one, and break the law as you say, that is your fault for not paying attention and doesn't consititute an "honest" mistake in my books. People who are speeding and/or blow traffic lights are knowing of their actions...the intent you speak of and yes I suppose they are all deemed 'criminals' per se, but society doesn't label it that way.
The same can be applied to hunting, there are very few mistakes which could be deemed truely honest, accidently harvesting an illegal animal due to antler point restrictions is not one of them IMO. This is usually a result of impatience and laziness and entirely preventable. Regardless if the mistake was honest or not, if it was made, you have broken the law, and it's all in how you deal it afterwards that shows your character and ethics, and wether you are deemed a poacher or not. Not every wildlife act infraction deems you a poacher.
Poaching requires intent, and once you realize you have killed an illegal animal (perhaps without intent-not poaching), and you decide to leave it there (failure to remove the animal, intent-poaching) or sneak it home (possession of illegal animal, intent-poaching) determines how you would be labelled after the fact. Immediately reporting the kill or removing the carcass after declaring your intent to self report on your license does not make you a poacher as your following directions of the Wildlife Act.
Even with an honest mistake, being reported, your are not let off scott free, you are issued a formal warning probably for harvest of an illegal animal, which will get logged in their system, much like a speeding ticket would.
As stated, the two infractions are like comparing apples and oranges. Wildife Act infractions such as this are weighted much higher in the eyes of the law and in SOCIETY. That is the dividing line.
As an example, if you don't self report your traffic violation and get caught you will get a small fine (can be larger but then you were definetly knowledgeable of your actions); however, if you don't self report your illegal harvest and get caught, what will happen to you??? Likely a significant fine, possible seizure of property and loss of hunting priveledges, plus the label of poacher for life. Society doesn't label minor traffic violaters as criminals unless the individual is a repeat offender.
If you tried to self report a traffic violation, the cop would probably look at you funny and say well don't do it again. Traffic violations are generally based on their word, which requires them to see the action to fine you (can't happen for self reporting a minor infraction).
Self-reporting an illegal harvest, you are carrying the evidence with you, which the CO will see and issue a warning or fine depending on how honest the mistake was.
My 2 Cents
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 01:40 PM
If your reporting a mistake, do it before you got it in your vehicle. imho
Think why this would be better.
Jelloramma alabamma
Mr. Dean
12-08-2010, 01:45 PM
I self reported a couple years back. Ain't no biggie and am still allowed to hunt. Shit can, and will always happen. Deal with it!
Would you self report on a 10 point moose where one point is 1/8" short?
Jagermeister
12-08-2010, 01:59 PM
That is an extremely bold statement. So then are you suggesting that bad things can never happen to good people - and if they do, it's simply a by-product of their ethical inadequacies? Following that logic, even a hunter that reports an honest mistake to the COs lacks ethics.......I would tend to disagree.Honest mistake ...... a mistake or bad choice that was unintentional.
Choice ...... The power, right, or liberty to choose
Mistake ....... a wrong choice attributable to bad judgment or ignorance or inattention.
Bad things (shooting an animal that should not be shot) can never happen to good people (ethical hunters). Ethical hunters make their choices based on sound judgment and attention to detail. Hunters that do not have this standard make "honest mistakes.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 02:23 PM
Would you self report on a 10 point moose where one point is 1/8" short?
Hey, if it's illegal, it's illegal....period. However painful it might be to do so. :wink:
I like Shooter Jr.'s post #2 the best. This coming from a 14 year old boy.
Us grown men can learn a valuable lesson from our youth. And if we are ethical hunters with any kind of morals, we'll do the same as he said in his post.
Tenacious Billy
12-08-2010, 02:30 PM
Honest mistake ...... a mistake or bad choice that was unintentional.
Choice ...... The power, right, or liberty to choose
Mistake ....... a wrong choice attributable to bad judgment or ignorance or inattention.
Bad things (shooting an animal that should not be shot) can never happen to good people (ethical hunters). Ethical hunters make their choices based on sound judgment and attention to detail. Hunters that do not have this standard make "honest mistakes.
That's great! You have a dictionary......but it doesn't answer my original question. According to your first post, people with ethics don't make mistakes..........So, if someone makes an honest mistake and self-reports, you're saying that, in your opinion, that person still lacks any ethical fortitude when it comes to hunting and, subsequently, isn't a good person?
farside
12-08-2010, 03:11 PM
People make mistakes, read my post on the cow and calf elk. I know another guy who shot 2 deer on the island with one shot. Hit one in the lungs and one in the head. Luckily both were bucks and he just tagged them both. He had no idea the other deer was behind it.
I have seen such a thing happen 1st hand to my hunting partner. We walked up and were very excited as he knew it was a good buck. Right behind it on the ground was a very small spiker. Shocked - yep:confused:. We had watched this buck for about 2 minutes before the shot and saw no evidence of a 2nd animal
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 03:23 PM
The only "dictionary meaning" any of us should be thinking of, regarding this thread is this,
"POACHER" : : one who kills or takes wild animals (as game or fish) illegally
Mistake or not, if you don't report it, kept or not, You are a poacher !!!
As defined by law.
Anybody who argues this point is delusional and needs some serious help.
Kody94
12-08-2010, 03:24 PM
Comparing mistakenly running a red light with shooting something out of season by mistake is silly. Same with comparing intentionally speeding to mistakenly shooting the wrong animal. These are nearly apples and oranges.
Shooting at something out of season and actually missing it would be more comparable to running a red light by accident (including the adrenaline rush and sense of "Holy fudge that was a close call").
A better comparison would be a hit and run... ie. a situation where damage IS caused, so there isn't a "no harm no fowl" aspect to either side.
If you back into someone's vehicle in a parking lot, and cause any damage to it at all...do you self report, or do you get the hell out of there before anyone else notices?
IMHO, people who would not self report an unwitnessed accident in a parking lot, are likely the same folks that would walk away from an animal shot in error.
I think J_T's answer is the best one on this thread.
And I agree that sooner or later, its pretty likely that everyone will make a mistake. No matter how careful you are, the more you hunt, the more likely it is that you will screw up.
I heard this story this year, from a friend. I've heard similar ones before, and its probably happened a thousand times...
This fellow was hunting in his favorite muley "patch" with a young and inexperienced hunter. They were sneaking along in an area that had been logged many years ago, but had lots of residual trees. When they crested a small rise they spotted a buck, but it's antlers were partly obscured by branches. The more experienced guy had a pretty good view of it and looked it over carefully with his binoculars, while his friend kept the deer in his riflescope and waited for the OK (it has 4 pts). When the "OK" finally came, the shot was taken and the deer bounded off...seemingly unharmed. They went over to where the more experienced guy saw it go and looked for blood. None was found. Before they left the area though, the young inexperienced guy says "You know, I am sure I saw the deer drop when I shot". The experienced guy says "No, it took off over this way".....and so on. Finally the experienced guy decides they better take another look at where the deer was standing, and lo-and-behold, less than 10 ft away is another buck...stone dead. Obviously there was two bucks, but even though the hunters were within a couple feet of each other, each of them could only see one deer, and they were different deer! You can believe there was a HUGE sigh of relief when they walked up to and counted 4 points!
That's just one example, that could happen to practically anyone. I have hunted enough that I've seen many situations that could have led to a mistake, but fortunately didn't. Shit can, and does, happen to anyone and very likely, eventually everyone.
MuleyMadness
12-08-2010, 03:32 PM
So you are a ethical hunter. You make a mistake. Not enough points, doe my mistake whatever. Do you risk getting charged by a over zelous CO or walk away?
According to the regulations they do not charge you if you self report, and it was a reasonable mistake (they're not gonna let you get away with shooting a big horn sheep and claim you thought it was a deer, or shooting a buck in July (assuming there is no season where you are )).There is a whole process on one of the pages. Yes they cancel your tag for that species, but they say if you self report, they will not charge you.
So of course I would. I would never harvest something illegal intentionally, but if a mistake was made, you just get yourself into a whole lot more troubel by trying to hide it.
Always turn yourself in no matter the consequences period.
first you do not know for sure who is watching and may turn you in second if you truly are an ethical hunter then do the right thing and turn your self in. third remember you only get one chance to prove your honest and that is the first time after that you better know the regs and never shoot unless your dam sure what your shooting at period. It happened to me a few years ago and I believe I am a better hunter for it.
Prowler
12-08-2010, 03:35 PM
According to the regulations they do not charge you if you self report, and it was a reasonable mistake (they're not gonna let you get away with shooting a big horn sheep and claim you thought it was a deer, or shooting a buck in July (assuming there is no season where you are )).There is a whole process on one of the pages. Yes they cancel your tag for that species, but they say if you self report, they will not charge you.
So of course I would. I would never harvest something illegal intentionally, but if a mistake was made, you just get yourself into a whole lot more troubel by trying to hide it.
The regs are wrong. They charge you....
ryanb
12-08-2010, 03:44 PM
If you want to compare a traffic violation vs retaining an illegal animal, fill yer boots. Takes all kinds I guess.
The fact of the matter is, if you retain an illegal animal, mistake or not, without reporting it, it's defined as poaching.....this isn't debatable, it's a fact.
And if you report it, the law also defines you as poacher, only now you have to face the consequences too.
ryanb
12-08-2010, 03:48 PM
According to the regulations they do not charge you if you self report, and it was a reasonable mistake (they're not gonna let you get away with shooting a big horn sheep and claim you thought it was a deer, or shooting a buck in July (assuming there is no season where you are )).There is a whole process on one of the pages. Yes they cancel your tag for that species, but they say if you self report, they will not charge you.
So of course I would. I would never harvest something illegal intentionally, but if a mistake was made, you just get yourself into a whole lot more troubel by trying to hide it.
You are wrong.
From what I have heard and seen from people I know that have made honest mistakes, those that make honest mistakes and turn themselves typically face the same penalties as the dirtbags that get caught purposefully poaching.
Best way to avoid such a dilema is to be sure of your target.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 03:57 PM
And if you report it, the law also defines you as poacher, only now you have to face the consequences too.
If what your saying has merit, there must be a sh!t load of poachers on here. :roll: So far all I here you saying is "from what I heard". There is no merit in hearsay.
I don't think the courts or anybody else will define anybody as a poacher if they willingly report an illegal kill to the proper authorities.
jml11
12-08-2010, 04:06 PM
You are wrong.
From what I have heard and seen from people I know that have made honest mistakes, those that make honest mistakes and turn themselves typically face the same penalties as the dirtbags that get caught purposefully poaching.
Best way to avoid such a dilema is to be sure of your target.
It's case specific. I have never heard of anyone being charged for accidentally shooting a 3-point moose in 2-point season or a young cow during calf season as long as it was self-reported and this comes from a COs mouth. The same CO told me that he has issued one ticket for an illegal harvest of a supposed 2-point moose as it was actually a paddled bull with 7-points a side...duh...
I also have personal knowledge of several other cases involving moose and deer where mistakes were made and only warnings issued. If the CO feels that based on your statement of the situation, (yes this matters too, it's not just the appearance of the animal) and feels like it was easily avoidable, you will likely will be charged. As an example with a 2-point moose, I imagine that if you told the CO you saw a small bull at 150 yards in a block from your truck and you instantly bailed out, shot it, walked up and it was a 3-point, you should be charged as you likely didn't put in the level of effort required to ID the animal as legal to satisfy the CO.
On the other side of the spectrum, all cases involving elk that I have heard of have resulted in a fine, probably because identifying a 6-point from a 5-point is considered to be straightforward when the appropriate level of effort to ID that animal is put in. As I said before, most of these mistakes occur due to impatience and over-zeal resulting in hasty decisions to shoot when a proper ID has not been made.
jml11
12-08-2010, 04:21 PM
According to the regulations they do not charge you if you self report, and it was a reasonable mistake (they're not gonna let you get away with shooting a big horn sheep and claim you thought it was a deer, or shooting a buck in July (assuming there is no season where you are )).There is a whole process on one of the pages. Yes they cancel your tag for that species, but they say if you self report, they will not charge you.
So of course I would. I would never harvest something illegal intentionally, but if a mistake was made, you just get yourself into a whole lot more troubel by trying to hide it.
It doesn't say they will not charge you just that you will be looked on in a different light. It states that all self reported unlawful kills be investigated with the appropriate action determined by the officer. It's a fine line, they can't state you will be not be charged as that gives us all a free pass to be careless in the bush with no fear of punishment and they can't go around handing out huge fines every time as no one would self report and the amount of game left in the bush would be much higher than we see already. If you ever feel you were wrongly charged for self-reporting, appeal the citation and let a higher power decide.
From the regs:
What should you do if you harvest an
animal in error?
Mistakes happen. Either through poor judgement, inexperience or at times through a series of unavoidable circumstances, each year animals are mistakenly killed. Many are self reported but many more are left in the bush to rot. The Conservation Officer Service wants to encourage those who make such a mistake to come forward. In circumstances where such animals are recovered by the COS the meat will be distributed and utilized by those in need. Hunters who self report such kills will be viewed in a different light than those who intentionally kill an illegal animal or fail to report the matter. The Conservation Officer Service believes that the true test of a hunter is not whether or not a mistake is made, but how he/she deals with that mistake. All self reported unlawful kills will be investigated and the appropriate action will be assessed by the officer.
Jagermeister
12-08-2010, 04:31 PM
That's great! You have a dictionary......but it doesn't answer my original question. According to your first post, people with ethics don't make mistakes..........So, if someone makes an honest mistake and self-reports, you're saying that, in your opinion, that person still lacks any ethical fortitude when it comes to hunting and, subsequently, isn't a good person?There is no such thing as an honest mistake, a mistake is a mistake. The deed has been done. Reporting yourself is purely a judgmental thing on your part. Think of it as easing your conscience so that you can rest a little easier everytime there is a knock on your door.
In reference to your words, "So, if someone makes an honest mistake and self-reports, you're saying that, in your opinion, that person still lacks any ethical fortitude when it comes to hunting and, subsequently, isn't a good person?"
I don't believe in honest mistakes. Since you said hunting and I will say, that person still lacks any ethical fortitude when it comes to hunting and, subsequently, isn't a good hunter. Turning yourself in makes you a good person, still a bad hunter.
Like I said before, "Bad things (shooting an animal that should not be shot) can never happen to good people (ethical hunters). Ethical hunters make their choices based on sound judgment and attention to detail.
Ethical hunters do not make mistakes, they pass on the shot unless thay are 100% certain that is the right shot.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 04:36 PM
It doesn't say they will not charge you just that you will be looked on in a different light. It states that all self reported unlawful kills be investigated with the appropriate action determined by the officer. It's a fine line, they can't state you will be not be charged as that gives us all a free pass to be careless in the bush with no fear of punishment and they can't go around handing out huge fines every time as no one would self report and the amount of game left in the bush would be much higher than we see already. If you ever feel you were wrongly charged for self-reporting, appeal the citation and let a higher power decide.
From the regs:
What should you do if you harvest an
animal in error?
Mistakes happen. Either through poor judgement, inexperience or at times through a series of unavoidable circumstances, each year animals are mistakenly killed. Many are self reported but many more are left in the bush to rot. The Conservation Officer Service wants to encourage those who make such a mistake to come forward. In circumstances where such animals are recovered by the COS the meat will be distributed and utilized by those in need. Hunters who self report such kills will be viewed in a different light than those who intentionally kill an illegal animal or fail to report the matter. The Conservation Officer Service believes that the true test of a hunter is not whether or not a mistake is made, but how he/she deals with that mistake. All self reported unlawful kills will be investigated and the appropriate action will be assessed by the officer.
Thank you for posting this.
The underlined part tells me that if you make an honest mistake, not a stupid error, and report it to the proper people, you will be, in most cases, given leniency by the CO. Resulting in not being charged and/or labeled as a poacher.
Jagermeister
12-08-2010, 04:37 PM
It doesn't say they will not charge you just that you will be looked on in a different light. It states that all self reported unlawful kills be investigated with the appropriate action determined by the officer. It's a fine line, they can't state you will be not be charged as that gives us all a free pass to be careless in the bush with no fear of punishment and they can't go around handing out huge fines every time as no one would self report and the amount of game left in the bush would be much higher than we see already. If you ever feel you were wrongly charged for self-reporting, appeal the citation and let a higher power decide.
From the regs:
What should you do if you harvest an
animal in error?
Mistakes happen. Either through poor judgement, inexperience or at times through a series of unavoidable circumstances, each year animals are mistakenly killed. Many are self reported but many more are left in the bush to rot. The Conservation Officer Service wants to encourage those who make such a mistake to come forward. In circumstances where such animals are recovered by the COS the meat will be distributed and utilized by those in need. Hunters who self report such kills will be viewed in a different light than those who intentionally kill an illegal animal or fail to report the matter. The Conservation Officer Service believes that the true test of a hunter is not whether or not a mistake is made, but how he/she deals with that mistake. All self reported unlawful kills will be investigated and the appropriate action will be assessed by the officer.
Good post jml11.
Tenacious Billy
12-08-2010, 04:43 PM
There is no such thing as an honest mistake, a mistake is a mistake. The deed has been done. Reporting yourself is purely a judgmental thing on your part. Think of it as easing your conscience so that you can rest a little easier everytime there is a knock on your door.
In reference to your words, "So, if someone makes an honest mistake and self-reports, you're saying that, in your opinion, that person still lacks any ethical fortitude when it comes to hunting and, subsequently, isn't a good person?"
I don't believe in honest mistakes. Since you said hunting and I will say, that person still lacks any ethical fortitude when it comes to hunting and, subsequently, isn't a good hunter. Turning yourself in makes you a good person, still a bad hunter.
Like I said before, "Bad things (shooting an animal that should not be shot) can never happen to good people (ethical hunters). Ethical hunters make their choices based on sound judgment and attention to detail.
Ethical hunters do not make mistakes, they pass on the shot unless thay are 100% certain that is the right shot.
Well, I hear what you're saying from up there. I just don't agree with you 100% I guess......:wink:
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 04:51 PM
There is no such thing as an honest mistake
Like I said before, "Bad things (shooting an animal that should not be shot) can never happen to good people (ethical hunters). Ethical hunters make their choices based on sound judgment and attention to detail.
Ethical hunters do not make mistakes, they pass on the shot unless thay are 100% certain that is the right shot.
Talk about delusional thinking, WOW!!!
Their is such a thing as an honest mistake,
bad things can and do happen to good people,
and ethical hunters can and will continue to make mistakes.
Time to crawl back into your perfect little world I'd say.
Kody94
12-08-2010, 05:01 PM
Ethical hunters do not make mistakes, they pass on the shot unless thay are 100% certain that is the right shot.
Count me as another that does not agree. I firmly believe that there have been, and will be, many situations where a good hunter, acting reasonably and with all due care and attention, who is 100% certain that it is the right shot, will make a mistake.
I do not believe that mistake would be anything less than honest, nor make them a bad hunter, nor make them unethical.
I would agree that MOST mistakes are the result of some degree of negligence, but I do not believe that ALL of them are.
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 05:02 PM
Only shoot when you are 100 percent sure of it being legal, and nothing behind the target to hit. If your not 100 percent sure don't pull the trigger.
If you see a big buck and it's at least a four point in four point season look behind it first to see if there is another deer.
Jelly Bo Deli .. check enter and exit just like when driving a car check first. You wouldn't drive down a road the wrong way wood U?
Dudley Doo Little
Thank you for posting this.
The underlined part tells me that if you make an honest mistake, not a stupid error, and report it to the proper people, you will be, in most cases, given leniency by the CO. Resulting in not being charged and/or labeled as a poacher.
I really appreciate people responding to this post. Alot of good respones here. I shot my first deer at age 10 and have been successful in the years since. There are only two points I need to ponder. No 1 Some hunters have stated that there is no way anyone should make a mistake. Just keep hunting. It will happen.
No 2 A freind of mine years ago shot a bull elk. He is a great elk hunter. The bull in question had very unusual horns. It turned out to be a 5 point not 6. He gutted the animal and walked 4 hours down very steep terrain to the road. Phoned it in. Was asked to get the animal out. This country is hand over hand steep West Kootenay snarb. He made five trips up the hill and of course back down to load the elk. It would of killed me and most hunters I know. He drove the animal to Nelson, admitted his guilt was charged license taken away fined and ofcourse it went to court.
Now you tell me where the justice is in this??
I am not talking about out of season poaching here, no license, tags etc. It sent a message to alot of decent hunters. I am still undecided and believe in fare play and being honest. Why get screwed for doing the right thing?
BCBRAD
12-08-2010, 06:20 PM
Yaw, vee var lookink at zha deah zats vos standink in front of zee vood pile and i say to comrade..zat ease a big doe,yaw eat eaze, zin dat sumobitch rises up and runs avay with zee vood pile. i say yaw you doomcough
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 06:25 PM
Vos yer problemo cont u count doom cough 12345 I don see 6 but he shot any vey an deserves to be nailt.
Jelly Von Schleetzone Hymar
lern ta count mon
Little Red Man
12-08-2010, 06:49 PM
Very interesting thread......
My wife works with a fellow who is a long time "ethical" hunter.
This season he spotted a 4 point muley with a doe, and when the time came to pull the trigger, he shot the doe clearly without intent (and yes, I agree, this can/will happen to the most ethical of hunter).
He reported it, and was let off with a warning (meat confiscated).
Having said that, I do believe that reporting yourself is a complete crap shoot; you may be let off like this fellow, or you may meet a wannabe cop CO and get the book chucked at ya.......
I would like to think if it happened to me, I would do the self-report.....but....until it happens, it is only speculation...
Apologies if my traffic comparison is weak :)
I was trying to get my point that calling someone who made a mistake with no bad intentions a poacher is not right.
Regardless if you turn yourself in or not, by definition you "poached" an animal nothing will change that, even if you turn yourself in your still a "poacher" (by definition) but not only do you feel already terrible about it since you had no intentions to do so but now you have to pay for it, with possibly a criminal charge (as some here of stated).
BCBRAD
12-08-2010, 07:13 PM
hawk tune jellez, daz yoke herr herr herr, getz deese, yaw deah runs zavay schnell schnell yaw vittle schnitzel
bighornbob
12-08-2010, 07:17 PM
I really appreciate people responding to this post. Alot of good respones here. I shot my first deer at age 10 and have been successful in the years since. There are only two points I need to ponder. No 1 Some hunters have stated that there is no way anyone should make a mistake. Just keep hunting. It will happen.
No 2 A freind of mine years ago shot a bull elk. He is a great elk hunter. The bull in question had very unusual horns. It turned out to be a 5 point not 6. He gutted the animal and walked 4 hours down very steep terrain to the road. Phoned it in. Was asked to get the animal out. This country is hand over hand steep West Kootenay snarb. He made five trips up the hill and of course back down to load the elk. It would of killed me and most hunters I know. He drove the animal to Nelson, admitted his guilt was charged license taken away fined and ofcourse it went to court.
Now you tell me where the justice is in this??
I am not talking about out of season poaching here, no license, tags etc. It sent a message to alot of decent hunters. I am still undecided and believe in fare play and being honest. Why get screwed for doing the right thing?
Obviously you buddy cant count to six or as you say the elk had unusual horns. So did he assume it had another point. I have heard guys say if you see two points above the "royal point" or the big fourth point, its a six point and blaze away. Using this scenario you are assuming he has 3 points below the Royal point.
Regardless of the unusual horns of the elk, your buddy did not count six points on one side and thats what the CO see's.
Its our responsability to make sure. If you do not have the proper view, do not shoot.
To me counting points is the easiest thing to do. You count to 3 or 6 or 10. Is that really tough. If the animal is walking or there is brush in front of it and its tough to count, pass on the shot.
One thing I know for a fact, You will never get a fine or get in trouble for passing on a shot.
BHB
I think we all can make mistakes... hense why they are called MISTAKES.
I do believe if someone turns themselves in for an illeagle harvest, that it is reasonable to count the person as honest. Unfortunately I am hearing stories that COs are coming down hard on people for these mistakes. I shouldn't think that anything but a fine, and confiscation of the animal is reasonable for a first offense; because it obviously can happen.
I do know that if you do shoot an illeagle animal, care for the meat in the field. Because it is definately a fine if you just leave it. even if u plan on coming back for it. and write on your license your intent for reporting.
when shit happens, cover your ass best you can, but be ready to accept the consequences. my opinion
scope-bite
12-08-2010, 08:24 PM
Would you self report on a 10 point moose where one point is 1/8" short?
Yes I would self-report and would expect to be charged. IMO, being off by 1/8 of an inch is no different than shooting a 5 point in a 6 point season or a 3-point in a spike-fork season and I don't think there is any acceptable excuse for doing it. You either didn't take enough time to ensure the animal was legal or you knew it was questionable and touched off anyways. Both lousy excuses.
Slinky Pickle
12-08-2010, 08:34 PM
If it hadn't been for my buddy, the story in the link below probably would have ended very different. In my mind I had proven that the animal was legal at least 4 times. Accidents can (and do) happen.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57048
Afterwards, we actually discussed what we would have done if I had pulled the trigger. We both agreed that it would have involved a trip to the CO.
Jelvis
12-08-2010, 08:36 PM
I guess it's like a person who makes a mistake in anything, do you learn by making a mistake or don't make one by being sure you don't make a mistake?
.. If your wife goes out with the girls for a beer one night and gets a lil loaded on booze and goes home with another guy by mistake, would you forgive her or give her a fine? lol.
She said it was a honest mistake and it just happened.
Jel .. It just happened, give me a break, it was only one. lol. She says, I guess I should have said nothing.
Gunner Staal
12-08-2010, 08:36 PM
Had some experience with this last year. A rookie hunter off on his own slapped a mulie less than four points. He rolled into camp with it strapped to the quad thinking he had just taken his trophy. Oblivious to what he had done. We convinced him to call himself in as the regs suggest you should. The CO showed up....and wrote him up anyway. I understand it was his mistake and his responsibility and there is no argument in that. However, if the gov wants to promote a "mistakes happen self report" program, they should show some discretion when dealing with an honest mistake. Im not saying scott free, but discretion. Its quite easy to tell when a legitimate mistake has been made. The fact that regardless of the "self report" aspect of the offence, guys are still getting plowed, will only promote further leaving of animals in the bush. Just my thoughts.
Slinky Pickle
12-08-2010, 08:43 PM
The CO showed up....and wrote him up anyway.
What would you expect the CO to do? At the very least, a person would have to expect a fine and the confiscation of the animal. I haven't heard of any self reported case where a hunter lost his/her license or firearm over it though (I don't count the "I heard of a guy's buddy who....." stories).
quadrakid
12-08-2010, 08:50 PM
I,m curious as to how many of you will be law abiding when we get some government in power that outlaws all hunting.Don,t think it can,t happen.
Gunner Staal
12-08-2010, 08:57 PM
Im not saying he shouldnt have been fined. I understand that and now...expect it. Im simply saying that discretion is an option in given situations. Of course, it would depend greatly on circumstance. This is also not a "I heard from a guy" story. I was there, spoke with the CO and was part of the conversation. My point is, if your promoting a program to eliminate animals being left in the bush to rott when taken against regulation, have some sort of beneficial recourse for self reporting. I know....here comes a "so now reward the guy for screwing up". No....but as I stated above, without discretion and the potential to defend yourself and your mistake, this is a useless and in my opinion a wasted initiative.
What would you expect the CO to do? At the very least, a person would have to expect a fine and the confiscation of the animal. I haven't heard of any self reported case where a hunter lost his/her license or firearm over it though (I don't count the "I heard of a guy's buddy who....." stories).
Steeleco
12-08-2010, 09:06 PM
If you "DO" make a mistake and don't turn yourself in, the next time you an your buddies are bullsh!tting about poachers, you better be shuttin yur hole, cause your one of them, like it or not.
On this I'd have to differ! In my mind a Poacher is someone that sets out to shoot animals regardless of the rules.
Mistakes are just that mistakes, but we're supposed to be sure enough with our shot that they don't happen, but regrettable they still do.
TIKA 300
12-08-2010, 09:08 PM
Report it.
Slinky Pickle
12-08-2010, 09:33 PM
Im not saying he shouldnt have been fined.
In this case, when you said that the CO "wrote him up"... was it just a fine?
I think you and I pretty much share that some outlook on this and I wasn't implying your's was a "heard of a guy" story. I just think that the CO has to do something and a fine is about as lenient as he can get. They have the authority to make things a whole lot worse for a guy than just a fine.
Gunner Staal
12-08-2010, 09:38 PM
It was a fine yes. I conceed he could have done more. Im not an anti CO guy by any means. I just think there are some holes in their initiative to self report. Agree...to semi agree...lol. Good debate.
In this case, when you said that the CO "wrote him up"... was it just a fine?
I think you and I pretty much share that some outlook on this and I wasn't implying your's was a "heard of a guy" story. I just think that the CO has to do something and a fine is about as lenient as he can get. They have the authority to make things a whole lot worse for a guy than just a fine.
David Heitsman
12-08-2010, 09:53 PM
Cancel your tag. Write on the tag that the animal is illegal in ink. This is important in case you are stopped by the law enroute to a phone. Load it up and go to the nearest cel zone or landline and call yourself in. Take your chances.
It's the right thing to do and there should be leniency granted.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 10:31 PM
On this I'd have to differ! In my mind a Poacher is someone that sets out to shoot animals regardless of the rules.
Mistakes are just that mistakes, but we're supposed to be sure enough with our shot that they don't happen, but regrettable they still do.
I agree to an extent, BUT, your just as much of a poacher if you keep or leave the animal and don't bother calling it in, mistake or not. Basically you just put yourself in the same group that we all despise, which are the deliberate poachers we hear about every season.
It's the same as fishing, this season we had the biggest sockeye run in history, and yet there are anglers out there who can't identify their fish properly and are still bonking them.Why ?? because they made a mistake, some honest ones, and some not. I've seen pictures with a guy holding 4 fish up, 3 sockeye and a wild coho, he had a grin from ear to ear, but he just poached a fish, but you tell him and he shrugs it off and still keeps the fish. Then you have the guy that is ripping with the treble hook that's got the pencil lead wrapped around the shaft and snagging to beat hell. There is no difference at the end of the day, they both poached the fish, but did nothing about it. In the end, one is just as bad as the other if the one that made the mistake does nothing to rectify it.
To me this is pretty easy to fathom.
Holy $hit some of you people need to really get out in the real world. :mrgreen:
I know that Self Reporting is the way to go because I have done it! I'm not ashamed to tell the story because hopefully it will educate some of you guys that think mistakes don't happen, and also encourage others to do the right thing.
Years ago my father in law passed away. That fall I made it my goal to take my teenage Brother In Laws hunting every chance I could trying to get them their first deer. My youngest BIL was 13 and had just passed his CORE just as 4 point or better season started. I was his hunting guardian and we pounded the bush trying to get him a buck. Hiked our asses off with numerous 4 points spotted but by the time I counted points the bucks either bailed or were covered by does or just $hit would happen. One day after pounding the timber all morning we hit the truck and did some road hunting. We come around a corner and there's a big buck standing on a hill. I told my BIL to get out and shoot it. He does. We walk up on it and it is a 3 point. I was sick! I told my BIL that there was 3 options we had. 1. We could tag the buck and sneak it home. 2. We could walk away like nothing ever happened or 3. We could do the right thing and own up to our mistake and call the CO. We knew #3 was our only option. I had a 2 way radio in the truck and I called out on a Repeater Channel to the local answering service and asked for them to call the CO. Turned out they had to call the RCMP first and needed all the info of what happened. So here I am telling everyone who had a radio on that channel that day exactly what happened. The RCMP called the CO and he met me at the kill site in less than an hour. He took us aside individually and asked us to tell him what happened. When he was talking to me he asked me, "If I give you a fine would that discourage you from reporting a mistake again." I said nope. I still would call him again. So he gave me a $100 fine for improperly instructing a Jr. Hunter. The ticket was the exact same ticket as what the police hand out for speeding tickets. It was not something that went on my record. And the $100 went dirrectly into the Habitat Conservation Fund. The CO took the deer which was butchered and donated to a local family in need. He shook my hand and thanked me for doing the right thing. He could have cut my BIL's tag, but he didn't, and let us continue to hunt for the rest of the season.
Mistakes do happen. I was young and excited to get my young BIL his first buck. I failed to count points. I learned a lot from that experience.
blacktailslayer
12-08-2010, 11:01 PM
I agree 100%!!
Funny how all this talk about poachers, mistakes, not being "ok" with the self inflicted repercussions of not being cautious enough BEFORE pulling the trigger, yet at the end of the day whats wrong is wrong.
The % of honesty revealed in threads like this is always mixed with a big b.s factor IMO.
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 11:04 PM
Holy $hit some of you people need to really get out in the real world. :mrgreen:
I know that Self Reporting is the way to go because I have done it! I'm not ashamed to tell the story because hopefully it will educate some of you guys that think mistakes don't happen, and also encourage others to do the right thing.
Years ago my father in law passed away. That fall I made it my goal to take my teenage Brother In Laws hunting every chance I could trying to get them their first deer. My youngest BIL was 13 and had just passed his CORE just as 4 point or better season started. I was his hunting guardian and we pounded the bush trying to get him a buck. Hiked our asses off with numerous 4 points spotted but by the time I counted points the bucks either bailed or were covered by does or just $hit would happen. One day after pounding the timber all morning we hit the truck and did some road hunting. We come around a corner and there's a big buck standing on a hill. I told my BIL to get out and shoot it. He does. We walk up on it and it is a 3 point. I was sick! I told my BIL that there was 3 options we had. 1. We could tag the buck and sneak it home. 2. We could walk away like nothing ever happened or 3. We could do the right thing and own up to our mistake and call the CO. We knew #3 was our only option. I had a 2 way radio in the truck and I called out on a Repeater Channel to the local answering service and asked for them to call the CO. Turned out they had to call the RCMP first and needed all the info of what happened. So here I am telling everyone who had a radio on that channel that day exactly what happened. The RCMP called the CO and he met me at the kill site in less than an hour. He took us aside individually and asked us to tell him what happened. When he was talking to me he asked me, "If I give you a fine would that discourage you from reporting a mistake again." I said nope. I still would call him again. So he gave me a $100 fine for improperly instructing a Jr. Hunter. The ticket was the exact same ticket as what the police hand out for speeding tickets. It was not something that went on my record. And the $100 went dirrectly into the Habitat Conservation Fund. The CO took the deer which was butchered and donated to a local family in need. He shook my hand and thanked me for doing the right thing. He could have cut my BIL's tag, but he didn't, and let us continue to hunt for the rest of the season.
Mistakes do happen. I was young and excited to get my young BIL his first buck. I failed to count points. I learned a lot from that experience.
Thanks for the story Dana, it's good to hear the right thing was done. As you say mistakes do happen.
I hate to ask, but will anyway. You seem to be a guy that will give a straight answer.
Hypothetically speaking of course...... If you chose option # 1 would you consider yourself a poacher ?? yes or no
Thanks for the story Dana, it's good to hear the right thing was done. As you say mistakes do happen.
I hate to ask, but will anyway. You seem to be a guy that will give a straight answer.
Hypothetically speaking of course...... If you chose option # 1 would you consider yourself a poacher ?? yes or no
Would I have been in the eyes of the law? Yup! Tag it and try to sneak it home and encounter a CO on a routine stop. You'll get charged. That is the real meat behind most of the BS stories posted up of "my buddy did the right thing and got hammered for it". Of course your buddy isn't going to tell ya the real truth that he was trying to sneak it home. Of course he's going to rant and rave about how the CO's nailed the honest guy's ass to the wall.
Caretaker
12-08-2010, 11:23 PM
Would you self report on a 10 point moose where one point is 1/8" short?
Would you, If these antlers had to be compulsory inspected
yamadirt 426
12-08-2010, 11:27 PM
We have also found 2 5 point elf shot and left in the 6 point season. The only difference between the two is point restrictions!!!
This is very concerning as i believe there are now only 3 5point elf left in the world. Elfs take 100yrs to grow a point. There are plenty of 6 point elfs around and very little 4 points. Very bad elf hunting to come for generations :(
Sleep Robber
12-08-2010, 11:49 PM
Would I have been in the eyes of the law? Yup! Tag it and try to sneak it home and encounter a CO on a routine stop. You'll get charged. That is the real meat behind most of the BS stories posted up of "my buddy did the right thing and got hammered for it". Of course your buddy isn't going to tell ya the real truth that he was trying to sneak it home. Of course he's going to rant and rave about how the CO's nailed the honest guy's ass to the wall.
Thanks Dana. I think I already new the answer :wink:, but your reply is a good testament for others.
Caretaker
12-09-2010, 12:20 AM
Thank you for posting this.
The underlined part tells me that if you make an honest mistake, not a stupid error, and report it to the proper people, you will be, in most cases, given leniency by the CO. Resulting in not being charged and/or labeled as a poacher.
An honest mistake, 5 point bull elk in a 6 point season,(due diligence) how long did you watch this animal, how far away was he,what was the weather, clear,raining, foggy, you shoot and drop him,you walk up and that's when you find out you have made the mistake, the proper thing to do, cancel your elk tag, your finished one elk per year, field dress him, leave him were he lays, because if you get stopped transporting him is the CO going to believe you(IE-I was just bringing him to your office) ya right,phone the CO or go to his office and explain what happened, tell him all the details, that you have cancalled your tag,offer to take the CO to the downed animal before the grizz finds it, help him get the meat out so it can be salvaged (you will not get any)If he is over zelos you may get a warning,If he charges you so be it, go to court and explain all above to the judge, the judge has better things to do, Iam sure he will be surprised to find out you turned yourself in and this is the way you are being treated, CASE CLOSED, This is my opinion ( Caretaker, 20 years Conservation Officer (Retired)
lip_ripper00
12-09-2010, 12:28 AM
[quote=Caretaker;807404]An honest mistake, 5 point bull elk in a 6 point season,(due diligence) how long did you watch this animal, how far away was he,what was the weather, clear,raining, foggy, you shoot and drop him,you walk up and that's when you find out you have made the mistake, the proper thing to do, cancel your elk tag, your finished one elk per year, field dress him, leave him were he lays, because if you get stopped transporting him is the CO going to believe you(IE-I was just bringing him to your office) ya right,phone the CO or go to his office and explain what happened, tell him all the details, that you have cancalled your tag,offer to take the CO to the downed animal before the grizz finds it, help him get the meat out so it can be salvaged (you will not get any)If he is over zelos you may get a warning,If he charges you so be it, go to court and explain all above to the judge, the judge has better things to do, Iam sure he will be surprised to find out you turned yourself in and this is the way you are being treated, CASE CLOSED, This is my opinion ( Caretaker, 20 years Conservation Officer (Retired)
thanks for that!
jamfarm
12-09-2010, 12:41 AM
I have a friend who mistook a 5 for a 6 pt. elk,and turned himself in,even brought the cleaned animal in to the C.O.He got shithammered.1250$ fine,rifle siezed and a 1 year suspension.So...........
If an honest mistake was reported and treated as such I think there would be less game left in the bush.If they come down on a guy full force then you would have to be a fool turn turn yourself in.
Of course make sure of your critter before you shoot but it can happen.
Holy $hit some of you people need to really get out in the real world. :mrgreen:
I know that Self Reporting is the way to go because I have done it! I'm not ashamed to tell the story because hopefully it will educate some of you guys that think mistakes don't happen, and also encourage others to do the right thing.
Years ago my father in law passed away. That fall I made it my goal to take my teenage Brother In Laws hunting every chance I could trying to get them their first deer. My youngest BIL was 13 and had just passed his CORE just as 4 point or better season started. I was his hunting guardian and we pounded the bush trying to get him a buck. Hiked our asses off with numerous 4 points spotted but by the time I counted points the bucks either bailed or were covered by does or just $hit would happen. One day after pounding the timber all morning we hit the truck and did some road hunting. We come around a corner and there's a big buck standing on a hill. I told my BIL to get out and shoot it. He does. We walk up on it and it is a 3 point. I was sick! I told my BIL that there was 3 options we had. 1. We could tag the buck and sneak it home. 2. We could walk away like nothing ever happened or 3. We could do the right thing and own up to our mistake and call the CO. We knew #3 was our only option. I had a 2 way radio in the truck and I called out on a Repeater Channel to the local answering service and asked for them to call the CO. Turned out they had to call the RCMP first and needed all the info of what happened. So here I am telling everyone who had a radio on that channel that day exactly what happened. The RCMP called the CO and he met me at the kill site in less than an hour. He took us aside individually and asked us to tell him what happened. When he was talking to me he asked me, "If I give you a fine would that discourage you from reporting a mistake again." I said nope. I still would call him again. So he gave me a $100 fine for improperly instructing a Jr. Hunter. The ticket was the exact same ticket as what the police hand out for speeding tickets. It was not something that went on my record. And the $100 went dirrectly into the Habitat Conservation Fund. The CO took the deer which was butchered and donated to a local family in need. He shook my hand and thanked me for doing the right thing. He could have cut my BIL's tag, but he didn't, and let us continue to hunt for the rest of the season.
Mistakes do happen. I was young and excited to get my young BIL his first buck. I failed to count points. I learned a lot from that experience.
I wonder if more people would self report if they knew what the repercussions were. I read of the two posts quoted and there doesn't seem to be any continuity in what the penalties are.
Or are there some guidelines as to fines and penalties in the Wildlife Act that I'm not aware of?
Fixit
12-09-2010, 12:43 AM
as a reliantly new hunter, and after reading a bunch on what will more than likely happen to you if you do self report. I can see why people would walk away.
Fixit
12-09-2010, 12:45 AM
also im curious. has ANYBODY EVER heard of "one of these families in need"???
Caretaker
12-09-2010, 01:23 AM
as a reliantly new hunter, and after reading a bunch on what will more than likely happen to you if you do self report. I can see why people would walk away.
If you self report you take your chances with a over zelos young Conservation Officer, read my above post, if you walk away and are caught (and belive me you do not know who is watching) you can be charged with Hunting during the closed season, Fail to report to a CO, Fail to retreave, Fail to cancel, All are compulsory court apperences, and all are subject to possible licence suspensions for up to five years if found guilty (and you will be found guilty, because you have no defence)
Do you value your hunting privliges, think about it.
Sleep Robber
12-09-2010, 01:38 AM
as a reliantly new hunter, and after reading a bunch on what will more than likely happen to you if you do self report. I can see why people would walk away.
I think that the main reason people lose their backbone and don't man up, is their afraid of losing their privilege to hunt and the possibility of losing their firearms etc. Their pride gets in the way of doing the right thing and they don't want anybody to find out they screwed up. I imagine a lot of this sh!t happens yearly.
You got a better chance of losing your hunting privileges if you get caught, so better to grow some nads and make the call. If ya goof once, why make it twice.
Karma will get ya sooner or later :twisted:
Sleep Robber
12-09-2010, 01:46 AM
I have a friend who mistook a 5 for a 6 pt. elk,and turned himself in,even brought the cleaned animal in to the C.O.He got shithammered.1250$ fine,rifle siezed and a 1 year suspension.So...........
If an honest mistake was reported and treated as such I think there would be less game left in the bush.If they come down on a guy full force then you would have to be a fool turn turn yourself in.
Of course make sure of your critter before you shoot but it can happen.
Probably the best $1250 he ever spent, I bet it won't happen again :wink:
hunter1947
12-09-2010, 02:38 AM
You made the mistake you face up to as being a true hunter we all can make mistakes.
I would rather get a fine then to see the meat go to waist to the animals.
There are lots of people out there that can use the meat for there families.
sawmill
12-09-2010, 04:37 AM
Probably the best $1250 he ever spent, I bet it won't happen again :wink:
Nope it won`t,he quit hunting.Still owns a rifle,still buys tags but he hasn`t hunted for 6 years now.
whitetailsheds
12-09-2010, 07:25 AM
also im curious. has ANYBODY EVER heard of "one of these families in need"???
YES. MANY. And they are very appreciative!
Walksalot
12-09-2010, 07:43 AM
I think it is grossly unfair to tar a hunter who has made a mistake and has chosen to leave the animal in the bush as a poacher. A poacher heads into the woods with criminal intent. When I was a young hunter(over 40 years ago) I shot a mule deer doe I thought was a whitetail, I left it in the woods. Since that day I have never made that mistake again and hope the trend continues.
In my opinion anyone who can say they have never made a mistake in a hunting situation has never hunted for very long or never hunted very much. Mistakes are made in hunting situations. We must learn from our mistakes so they will never happen again. How many hunters have wounded an animal and knew it was hit hard but was not recovered. How many hunters would cancel their tag rationalizing the animal will die there fore a tag should be canceled.
My son was very concerned about wounding an animal and I told him that we are in an environment which we do not have 100% control over. Every time you get into a "Harvest the animal" situation you run a risk of something going south. We do our very best to minimize these mistakes but mistakes can happen. But, I told him, always remember that you go home to your nice warm bed but it is the animal which has to ultimately deal with the consequences of your mistake. We have passed on some very nice animals because they offered marginal shots or did not offer a clear view to definitively count points. We both carry binoculars and identify our animal before the rifle goes to the shoulder. This has led to missed opportunities on animals but, no regrets.
I think it is grossly unfair to tar a hunter who has made a mistake and has chosen to leave the animal in the bush as a poacher. A poacher heads into the woods with criminal intent. When I was a young hunter(over 40 years ago) I shot a mule deer doe I thought was a whitetail, I left it in the woods. Since that day I have never made that mistake again and hope the trend continues.
In my opinion anyone who can say they have never made a mistake in a hunting situation has never hunted for very long or never hunted very much. Mistakes are made in hunting situations. We must learn from our mistakes so they will never happen again. How many hunters have wounded an animal and knew it was hit hard but was not recovered. How many hunters would cancel their tag rationalizing the animal will die there fore a tag should be canceled.
My son was very concerned about wounding an animal and I told him that we are in an environment which we do not have 100% control over. Every time you get into a "Harvest the animal" situation you run a risk of something going south. We do our very best to minimize these mistakes but mistakes can happen. But, I told him, always remember that you go home to your nice warm bed but it is the animal which has to ultimately deal with the consequences of your mistake. We have passed on some very nice animals because they offered marginal shots or did not offer a clear view to definitively count points. We both carry binoculars and identify our animal before the rifle goes to the shoulder. This has led to missed opportunities on animals but, no regrets.
You sound like you are an ethical hunter and a very good teacher. I really appreciate what you said to your son. Goon on you. I wish more hunters had that appreciation and less smack one mentality.
Jonas111
12-09-2010, 08:00 AM
I think if I was to accidentally make a mistake I would call it in and deal with the CO's and hopefully they would understand the mistake and be fair. If fair is a $100 fine then so be it. I did make a mistake.
The reason I would do it is because where we hunt in MB the CO's harass my family all the time. They make stories up and charge my parents for things that they didn't do. Example, my parents were out hunting partridge one afternoon and the were pulled over. The CO is a little aggressive and goes to the passenger side of the vehicle and grabs the shot gun without asking. The way he grabbed it knocked the shell that my mom was going to use on the floor. So he immediately said the gun was loaded. My dad and the CO got into an argument and he charged them and fined them with a loaded gun. My parents fought it in court and won but it cost them more then the fine. So most people just pay the fine where we hunt in MB because he charges people with things that they haven't done. Last year hunting I was pulled over by him 6 times in 8 days with no charges.
I would like to think if I communicate to the CO's here in my area of BC that I can build a good and honest relationship with them. After all my intent is to follow the laws of conservation and not step outside that. They should be happy that hunters are willing to work with them. Just my .02 cents.
I,m curious as to how many of you will be law abiding when we get some government in power that outlaws all hunting.Don,t think it can,t happen.
In this scenario,,, id be a poacher
Holy $hit some of you people need to really get out in the real world. :mrgreen:
I know that Self Reporting is the way to go because I have done it! I'm not ashamed to tell the story because hopefully it will educate some of you guys that think mistakes don't happen, and also encourage others to do the right thing.
Years ago my father in law passed away. That fall I made it my goal to take my teenage Brother In Laws hunting every chance I could trying to get them their first deer. My youngest BIL was 13 and had just passed his CORE just as 4 point or better season started. I was his hunting guardian and we pounded the bush trying to get him a buck. Hiked our asses off with numerous 4 points spotted but by the time I counted points the bucks either bailed or were covered by does or just $hit would happen. One day after pounding the timber all morning we hit the truck and did some road hunting. We come around a corner and there's a big buck standing on a hill. I told my BIL to get out and shoot it. He does. We walk up on it and it is a 3 point. I was sick! I told my BIL that there was 3 options we had. 1. We could tag the buck and sneak it home. 2. We could walk away like nothing ever happened or 3. We could do the right thing and own up to our mistake and call the CO. We knew #3 was our only option. I had a 2 way radio in the truck and I called out on a Repeater Channel to the local answering service and asked for them to call the CO. Turned out they had to call the RCMP first and needed all the info of what happened. So here I am telling everyone who had a radio on that channel that day exactly what happened. The RCMP called the CO and he met me at the kill site in less than an hour. He took us aside individually and asked us to tell him what happened. When he was talking to me he asked me, "If I give you a fine would that discourage you from reporting a mistake again." I said nope. I still would call him again. So he gave me a $100 fine for improperly instructing a Jr. Hunter. The ticket was the exact same ticket as what the police hand out for speeding tickets. It was not something that went on my record. And the $100 went dirrectly into the Habitat Conservation Fund. The CO took the deer which was butchered and donated to a local family in need. He shook my hand and thanked me for doing the right thing. He could have cut my BIL's tag, but he didn't, and let us continue to hunt for the rest of the season.
Mistakes do happen. I was young and excited to get my young BIL his first buck. I failed to count points. I learned a lot from that experience.
This is a good post Dana,
It is changing my opinion on what option I may have taken. I was sitting on option 1.
If more of the people on this side of the fence posted stories like this one, You may be sucessfull in converting some option 1ers.
Remembering that option 1ers like myself are just scared of having our rights taken away.
Walksalot
12-09-2010, 10:18 AM
If I had shot an animal which was not legal I sure as hell would not simply load it in my truck and head down to the C.O.'s office. I would make a phone call first because if you are stopped the C.O.'s have heard every story in the book.
Sleep Robber
12-09-2010, 10:30 AM
It's safe to say, even the most experienced hunters can still make the "honest mistake" while in the field. The sad thing is that, some still make the wrong choice in the aftermath of the said mistake. It's just my guess, but I'd say the paranoia factor probably gets the best of them. The "god help me if anyone was to find out" or "shit, I'll never be allowed to hunt again" sets in. Maybe I'm wrong with this statement, but I doubt it.
You "might" be the only one that knows of the animal your leaving behind to rot in the bush, and I imagine their are lots of guys out there that can live with that, no problem, but in no way is this the right choice. You owe it to yourself to call it in.
People say, "you learn from your mistakes" but,there's this old saying too, "turn a blind eye". I'd say if you can walk away from an illegal shooting once, you'll do it again. Your true colors shined once already, and that says who you really are. The fact is, the best thing is always, "honesty is the best policy", no matter the outcome. Calling yourself an ethical hunter, but not calling the CO after a mistake, makes you nothing but two faced.
There's very few people who hunt that would think your lesser of a man, by doing the right thing, and that is to be honest to yourself and your sport. Being a man, is to own up to your mistakes.
I know if my father was still alive today, and I was to make a mistake and not do the right thing , he'd make me, and if I still refused, he'd never let me hunt with him again, son or not.
budismyhorse
12-09-2010, 10:35 AM
as a reliantly new hunter, and after reading a bunch on what will more than likely happen to you if you do self report. I can see why people would walk away.
what you are not understanding Fixit is that the guys who "fall victim" to an over zealous CO 99.99999% of the time were trying to fudge something. The story didn't line up, the mistake was not that "honest" were trying to get away with it somehow......ect...
The people that were 100% honest from mistake to end would never get treated poorly, by any CO. Warnings/small fines are standard.
Unfortunately, an "over zealous" CO is normally confused with a CO that has picked up on some kind of BS that is being fed to him and deals with the situation as such. And by the content of many posts on this thread....the BS is likely fed to them CONSTANTLY.
I have spoken to many CO's regarding this topic many many times and they all say the same thing. If it stinks (at ALL) your getting treated poorly. If not, your getting off.
coach
12-09-2010, 10:51 AM
I found this guy a couple years ago during spike fork season in region 3. I posted the pics at the time. He was laying about 50 yards from the road, on the edge of a cut block. It's impossible that the person who shot it wouldn't have found it. Obviously, it was killed by someone who didn't take the time to count points, and whoever did it decided to leave the animal where it was. I called the CO, who went to investigate and I posted about it here on HBC. I have no idea if the person was ever caught. I've found a few dead animals in the bush over the years, but none of the others were so obviously shot and left by someone not willing to deal with the consequences of their mistake. Of the options outlined in this thread, leaving an animal in the bush is by far the worst choice a person can make.
From what I understand, the story that sawmill related about a guy trying to do the right thing and getting nailed with a big fine was common many years ago - and to this day stops a lot of people from doing the right thing. Dana's story seems to be more the norm now and Caretaker has backed him up on this. I'd be interested to know if the fine sawmill talks about was upheld by a judge or not? If the situation played out exactly as described, I would be surprised if the judge didn't reduce or eliminate the penalty.
http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy154/coach108/IMG_1748.jpg
Iron Glove
12-09-2010, 10:58 AM
I'd fess up and report my mistake.
It's all about acceting responsibility for your actions.
If we can't accept responsibility for our own actions, how can we pontificate about others?
Prowler
12-09-2010, 11:12 AM
I think it is grossly unfair to tar a hunter who has made a mistake and has chosen to leave the animal in the bush as a poacher. A poacher heads into the woods with criminal intent. When I was a young hunter(over 40 years ago) I shot a mule deer doe I thought was a whitetail, I left it in the woods. Since that day I have never made that mistake again and hope the trend continues.
In my opinion anyone who can say they have never made a mistake in a hunting situation has never hunted for very long or never hunted very much. Mistakes are made in hunting situations. We must learn from our mistakes so they will never happen again. How many hunters have wounded an animal and knew it was hit hard but was not recovered. How many hunters would cancel their tag rationalizing the animal will die there fore a tag should be canceled.
My son was very concerned about wounding an animal and I told him that we are in an environment which we do not have 100% control over. Every time you get into a "Harvest the animal" situation you run a risk of something going south. We do our very best to minimize these mistakes but mistakes can happen. But, I told him, always remember that you go home to your nice warm bed but it is the animal which has to ultimately deal with the consequences of your mistake. We have passed on some very nice animals because they offered marginal shots or did not offer a clear view to definitively count points. We both carry binoculars and identify our animal before the rifle goes to the shoulder. This has led to missed opportunities on animals but, no regrets.
I think this is the best post on this thread. It speaks volumes about honesty and integrity.
Prowler
12-09-2010, 11:14 AM
Holy $hit some of you people need to really get out in the real world. :mrgreen:
I know that Self Reporting is the way to go because I have done it! I'm not ashamed to tell the story because hopefully it will educate some of you guys that think mistakes don't happen, and also encourage others to do the right thing.
Years ago my father in law passed away. That fall I made it my goal to take my teenage Brother In Laws hunting every chance I could trying to get them their first deer. My youngest BIL was 13 and had just passed his CORE just as 4 point or better season started. I was his hunting guardian and we pounded the bush trying to get him a buck. Hiked our asses off with numerous 4 points spotted but by the time I counted points the bucks either bailed or were covered by does or just $hit would happen. One day after pounding the timber all morning we hit the truck and did some road hunting. We come around a corner and there's a big buck standing on a hill. I told my BIL to get out and shoot it. He does. We walk up on it and it is a 3 point. I was sick! I told my BIL that there was 3 options we had. 1. We could tag the buck and sneak it home. 2. We could walk away like nothing ever happened or 3. We could do the right thing and own up to our mistake and call the CO. We knew #3 was our only option. I had a 2 way radio in the truck and I called out on a Repeater Channel to the local answering service and asked for them to call the CO. Turned out they had to call the RCMP first and needed all the info of what happened. So here I am telling everyone who had a radio on that channel that day exactly what happened. The RCMP called the CO and he met me at the kill site in less than an hour. He took us aside individually and asked us to tell him what happened. When he was talking to me he asked me, "If I give you a fine would that discourage you from reporting a mistake again." I said nope. I still would call him again. So he gave me a $100 fine for improperly instructing a Jr. Hunter. The ticket was the exact same ticket as what the police hand out for speeding tickets. It was not something that went on my record. And the $100 went dirrectly into the Habitat Conservation Fund. The CO took the deer which was butchered and donated to a local family in need. He shook my hand and thanked me for doing the right thing. He could have cut my BIL's tag, but he didn't, and let us continue to hunt for the rest of the season.
Mistakes do happen. I was young and excited to get my young BIL his first buck. I failed to count points. I learned a lot from that experience.
Glad to hear you got off reasonably easy Dana, but that is not always the case, and it is not always as a result of a bunch of BS from the perp either. Some COs are just a little more heavy handed then others. PERIOD...
Jonas111
12-09-2010, 11:14 AM
I found this guy a couple years ago during spike fork season in region 3. I posted the pics at the time. He was laying about 50 yards from the road, on the edge of a cut block. It's impossible that the person who shot it wouldn't have found it. Obviously, it was killed by someone who didn't take the time to count points, and whoever did it decided to leave the animal where it was. I called the CO, who went to investigate and I posted about it here on HBC. I have no idea if the person was ever caught. I've found a few dead animals in the bush over the years, but none of the others were so obviously shot and left by someone not willing to deal with the consequences of their mistake. Of the options outlined in this thread, leaving an animal in the bush is by far the worst choice a person can make.
From what I understand, the story that sawmill related about a guy trying to do the right thing and getting nailed with a big fine was common many years ago - and to this day stops a lot of people from doing the right thing. Dana's story seems to be more the norm now and Caretaker has backed him up on this. I'd be interested to know if the fine sawmill talks about was upheld by a judge or not? If the situation played out exactly as described, I would be surprised if the judge didn't reduce or eliminate the penalty.
http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy154/coach108/IMG_1748.jpg
Upsets me deeply. What a waste of a perfectly good animal. That could feed my family for a year.
Upsets me deeply. What a waste of a perfectly good animal. That could feed my family for a year.
Yep, no excuse for that
coach
12-09-2010, 11:23 AM
Glad to hear you got off reasonably easy Dana, but that is not always the case, and it is not always as a result of a bunch of BS from the perp either. Some COs are just a little more heavy handed then others. PERIOD...
You are correct, Prowler - but this is why judges are part of our legal system. An over zealous CO can charge a person and impose a heavy fine, but ultimately it's up to a judge to uphold that charge. I'm not sure why we only ever hear about the charges and not the final decisions.
coach
12-09-2010, 11:30 AM
Upsets me deeply. What a waste of a perfectly good animal. That could feed my family for a year.
Yes, this was an awful waste of an animal. It's not the first time I've posted this picture. This one really bothered me.
Earlier the same day, my hunting partner and I had passed up a legal 3x2 because we couldn't clearly count points while it was looking straight at us and because the two of us had different ideas about the animal's left and right sides. :?
Dana's post is excellent shows a great deal of integrity on his part. If more CO's acted on incidents/mistakes with this approach, i beleive more people would own up to their mistakes. What i struggle with is people that own up to their mistakes are being very honest and forthcoming and then being hammered for it, just doesnt seem right to me. Throw the book at the guys that get caught but dont own up to their mistakes. I would deal with it as I deal with my kids tell the truth even when you screw up and you will be punished much less....... lie and "somebody goin to get hurt real bad"!!!!
killer
12-09-2010, 11:39 AM
I was taught at a very young age about all the proper ways to hunt by my father and grandfather.They are both gone now , i have a son and daughter that both have passed the core course . Firstly always be in control of your firearm, it is no toy.Always be certain the game you intend to take is legal.Do not take the shot if the animals backdrop is uncertain.Make your shot count, bullet placement is the key to taking the animal and not letting it suffer.
Mr. Dean
12-09-2010, 12:01 PM
As far as I'm concerned, self reporting is part of the price of admission.
If ya can't accept or don't like the terms of the deal, stay home; this activity isn't for you and you're not entitled to enjoy it. You are also not entitled to make up rules as you deem fitting.
The mindset of sweeping things under the carpet, bothers me. I get nervous feelings when around people that do this.... Some seem to correlate integrity with how good another can keep his mouth shut while they go on about what they can do, in trying to look 'good'. Be it killing an animal or bumping into another car at the shopping center.
WTS, I can't think of a person who hasn't done 'something' that they regret, myself included - Live-n-learn from your mistakes and do the right thing; The haunting memories alone, aren't worth it. :smile:
Jelvis
12-09-2010, 01:21 PM
The individual can try to forget, but certain amount of the public can make you regret, and that is the problem, that's why some sweep it under the rug, like a bug without a hug, treated like a thug, showing his mug. Chug a lug ..
You might try to forget and go on but the memory lingers from the pointed fingers. That's the one who broke the law over there, he he he ha ha ha.
If you can handle the pressure and be painted with a brush, then be mature and take your lumps but but but, be prepared to be a loner, you pulled a boner.
Jeeeeee eli visss .. Who you lookin at boy? .. You want some of this? .. Good night .. Sleep tight
Prowler
12-09-2010, 02:20 PM
You are correct, Prowler - but this is why judges are part of our legal system. An over zealous CO can charge a person and impose a heavy fine, but ultimately it's up to a judge to uphold that charge. I'm not sure why we only ever hear about the charges and not the final decisions.
Because its just like a traffic violation. It only goes before a judge if you dispute the charge, otherwise, you just buck up and shut up....
coach
12-09-2010, 02:41 PM
Because its just like a traffic violation. It only goes before a judge if you dispute the charge, otherwise, you just buck up and shut up....
I agree with you again. Although, Caretaker mentioned earlier that some charges require a mandatory court appearance. I guess my point is that when the charge seem ridiculous, it makes sense to go to court. Anybody who self reports and then accepts a heavy fine imposed by an over-eager CO is not considering all of their options. Ideally, the system should support people who report themselves and punish those that don't.
Sleep Robber
12-09-2010, 02:59 PM
Ideally, the system should support people who report themselves and punish those that don't.
Absolutely, but if you get a CO that sh!t the bed that morning and throws the book at you, "no matter the outcome", take your lumps and carry on. At least you did the honorable thing.
coach
12-09-2010, 03:52 PM
Absolutely, but if you get a CO that sh!t the bed that morning and throws the book at you, "no matter the outcome", take your lumps and carry on. At least you did the honorable thing.
Really? You have no problem with the CO giving you a penalty that is more than is called for by the situation? You shoot a 5 point bull elk in a 6 point only area. You report yourself, clean the animal, help the CO retrieve the meat and he gives you a $2000 fine and bans you from hunting for 2 years - and you just accept the outcome? I'm not so sure on this.
I agree 100% with doing the right thing and self-reporting. I stated before - many people are afraid to do this because they've heard stories about CO's giving unfair penalties. As a result, animals like the bull moose I posted about earlier get left in the bush. I'm trying to make the point that guys shouldn't be afraid to self-report and that they have a recourse if the penalties they get for doing this are heavier than they should be. The right to defend yourself in court is something Canadians are proud to have. Hopefully mistakes don't get made because people take the time to make the right decisions - but if they do, people should not be afraid to do the right thing and report themselves.
goatdancer
12-09-2010, 04:21 PM
Bottom line is this. If you make a mistake and report it, you are a hunter. If you make a mistake and don't report it, you are a poacher.
.330 Dakota
12-09-2010, 04:32 PM
I know a guy who got hammered for this too. Guy shoots a cow elk on his LEH, bullets goes right through the lungs and kills the calf behind her. No idea calf was even there. He reported it and they hammered him anyway.
Sounds to me like the CO"s have their own "create a poacher program"
I know a fellow that was charged by a griz at 40 yards, (not a bluff) he stumbled upon a kill. He shot the bear and is hear to tell about it. He reported it and was shithammered as well. Now when asked this question he becomes pissed off and says "shoot and shovel"
IMO the Govt has created this crap by abuse of their own system by a few Nazi style CO's
oldschoolguy
12-09-2010, 04:33 PM
I'd call from a payphone, anonymous, and tell them what happened. Let them know where they can pick up/find the accidentally killed animal, and hang up. And treat my tag as cancelled. Getting the book thrown at you won't bring back the dead animal. What is the self reporting system for anyway
I'd call from a payphone, anonymous, and tell them what happened. Let them know where they can pick up/find the accidentally killed animal, and hang up. And treat my tag as cancelled. Getting the book thrown at you won't bring back the dead animal. What is the self reporting system for anyway
Not a bad idea but do payphones still exist????
Caretaker
12-09-2010, 05:00 PM
Really? You have no problem with the CO giving you a penalty that is more than is called for by the situation? You shoot a 5 point bull elk in a 6 point only area. You report yourself, clean the animal, help the CO retrieve the meat and he gives you a $2000 fine and bans you from hunting for 2 years - and you just accept the outcome? I'm not so sure on this.
I agree 100% with doing the right thing and self-reporting. I stated before - many people are afraid to do this because they've heard stories about CO's giving unfair penalties. As a result, animals like the bull moose I posted about earlier get left in the bush. I'm trying to make the point that guys shouldn't be afraid to self-report and that they have a recourse if the penalties they get for doing this are heavier than they should be. The right to defend yourself in court is something Canadians are proud to have. Hopefully mistakes don't get made because people take the time to make the right decisions - but if they do, people should not be afraid to do the right thing and report themselves.
I have to clear a few things up that are bugging me,A CO can only issue a ticket on a ticketable offence, I believe there is no ticketable offence over $200.00 at least there never was when I was a CO, all ticket offences have a voluntary penalty and can be disputed if you wish.Shooting a 5 point elk in a 6 point season or takeing a 4 point Bull Moose during the 2 point season is not a ticketable offence, this is Hunting during the closed season, (although I believe they now have an antler restriction that is ticketable but still under $200.00) Hunting during the closed season is a mandatory court apperance and you tell your story to the judge, No CO can ban you from hunting or take away your hunting privledge, he can only recommend this to the higher ups in the Ministry or the Judge and only after you are found guilty. Do not be afraid to do the right thing.
brian46
12-09-2010, 05:12 PM
I have a friend who mistook a 5 for a 6 pt. elk,and turned himself in,even brought the cleaned animal in to the C.O.He got shithammered.1250$ fine,rifle siezed and a 1 year suspension.So...........
If an honest mistake was reported and treated as such I think there would be less game left in the bush.If they come down on a guy full force then you would have to be a fool turn turn yourself in.
Of course make sure of your critter before you shoot but it can happen.I can see the fine and the loss of the animal as being reasonable, but confiscation of the rifle/rifles and a suspension from hunting sounds like the penalty that should be imposed on those caught red handed, not those that self report an accidental kill.
Jelvis
12-09-2010, 05:34 PM
If a CO made a mistake would he report him self lol. I'm doing the right thing, I'm reporting myself to myself. Or a cop who drove while impaired the night before, hey I'm giving myself a ticket.
Jel . lol
Mauser98
12-09-2010, 05:46 PM
I have to clear a few things up that are bugging me,A CO can only issue a ticket on a ticketable offence, I believe there is no ticketable offence over $200.00 at least there never was when I was a CO, all ticket offences have a voluntary penalty and can be disputed if you wish.Shooting a 5 point elk in a 6 point season or takeing a 4 point Bull Moose during the 2 point season is not a ticketable offence, this is Hunting during the closed season, (although I believe they now have an antler restriction that is ticketable but still under $200.00) Hunting during the closed season is a mandatory court apperance and you tell your story to the judge, No CO can ban you from hunting or take away your hunting privledge, he can only recommend this to the higher ups in the Ministry or the Judge and only after you are found guilty. Do not be afraid to do the right thing.
I just checked the Offense Act(Schedule 2 of the Violation Ticket and Administration Fines Regulation) and found the minimum fine is $230 and the maximum is $575.
Scroll down almost to the bottom for some interesting reading.
http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/89_97_03
budismyhorse
12-09-2010, 06:17 PM
I can see the fine and the loss of the animal as being reasonable, but confiscation of the rifle/rifles and a suspension from hunting sounds like the penalty that should be imposed on those caught red handed, not those that self report an accidental kill.
In this example....you can bet there was alot more to it.
If a guy slams on the binders and kills an elk that turns out to be illegal he shouldn't be hunting like that in the first place.
.......not talking specifically about Sawmills buddy.......just the situation.
I know quite a few hunters that have accidentally killed a 5 pt and turned themselves in.........volunteer fine and walk away.....
I onlyknow of one guy who got more than that and he deserved it based on the story. Still turned himself in and got "hammered" but he knows better and understands why he was fined the way he was.
BCBRAD
12-09-2010, 06:58 PM
I am here to help you on the behalf of the Bank of Commerce and the government of Canada.
guntech
12-09-2010, 07:15 PM
I have to ask those so high and mighty who never make a mistake...
If a mistake was made, what benefit is it to 'turn yourself in', and get hammered with a fine and possibly more...
Suppose a dead animal was left in the bush... it will be eaten by other animals... it is not 'wasted'.
I am not condoning breaking the law at all but what is the benefit of 'turning yourself in'?
It was mentioned earlier in the thread, the vast majority of us exceed the speed limit, don't fully stop at stop signs, and other infractions that we deliberately do... and we don't turn ourselves in for that. So why should one turn themselves in for a mistake?
wolverine
12-09-2010, 07:21 PM
If you make a mistake and do nothing to mitigate that mistake or worse yet try to cover it up you will indeed get crucified by both the CO and the courts. It has been my experience (as an observer only) that persons doing so can expect to be hit with the maximum allowable fine and sanctions however I have seen cases where the individual self reported and did everything the way it has been laid out in this thread and walk away with a small fine (100 -250 range) without a loss of hunting privileges or weapons. Cases where the individual has been caught with an illegal animal that have no plausible explanation for their actions usually get nailed hard, and should. As Caretaker said, if you think you have been unfairly treated take it to court and prove that you did everything to comply with the law after you realized you made a mistake and prove you had no intent to commit the offense. You might still have the stigma that goes along with admitting you screwed up but you will have the respect of many who are watching. Sometimes the right thing to do isn't always the easiest thing to do.
People need to take a step back and think about the stories you hear and the ones you read on the internet. As others have pointed out, you get caught sneakin something illegal home, you will get hammered. You leave a critter in the bush, and get caught, you'll get even hammered more as that is Watton Destruction of Wildlife. That is the one where you will loose your rifle, truck, and house as you try to pay the fines and lawyer costs. And you will indeed loose your hunting privledges for 5 years. Is it worth the risk? Hell NO! You make a honest mistake and self report like I did, you will see the same scenerio as I did. Don't let the BSer's of the world sway you into thinking you'll get hammered if you do the right thing. Most of those stories have much much more behind them that you don't have a clue about.
To me, I value my hunting privledges dearly. I would never risk those. Mistakes happen. Real men own up to their mistakes.
If you were to back into a car in a parking lot, creating significant damage, would you look around, see no one saw it, and drive away? If you have any character what so ever, you would do the right thing and wait for the person that owns that vehicle to come back or at the very least leave your name and number and tell them you will look after the damages.
Jelvis
12-09-2010, 07:57 PM
It's one thing for some to turn themselves in when there was a couple of boys there watching, and wondering, what if there was no one watching then what?
Jel .. When someone is with you and you blow it, that's one thing you know you must report, but what if no one would have known? Makes quite a bit of difference when some one was there, and would tell someone eh? And report what you did.
Sleep Robber
12-09-2010, 08:16 PM
It's one thing for some to turn themselves in when there was a couple of boys there watching, and wondering, what if there was no one watching then what?
Jel .. When someone is with you and you blow it, that's one thing you know you must report, but what if no one would have known? Makes quite a bit of difference when some one was there, and would tell someone eh? And report what you did.
If the difference of having someone with you or not is going to sway your decision, you have no spine, deserve more than a fine, and are a jelly welly, smelly belly "jellyfish" :mrgreen:
Guntech makes good points I will admit I was thinking very much the same way but didnt bring it up. I think it is very honourable and shows much class and integrity to step up and be honest about accidents or just plan bad decisions..... however like guntech said why should this be veiwed any different than any other unlawful act, traffic violations, driving after consuming alcohol, driving quads without insurance, shooting too late or too early at that trophy animal, shooting 200 meters from a rd when your suppose to be 400 meters the list goes on and on!! Can anyone here honeslty say they would turn themselves for any of those unlawful acts if it was accidental or in poor judgement under pressure?????? If not then why not, whats the diff it could kind of sound hypicritical....no?? Hey just throwing it out there!!! Anyway all I can say is I dont know how i would react it hasnt happened to me as of yet, and i really hope I never have to test my integrity with this situation, and that is an honest answer.
whitetail2009
12-09-2010, 08:41 PM
Back in 2002 I made the mistake of shooting, what i thought was a spike/fork bull. It end up being a 3x3 moose.:( I glassed this animal and i was 100 % it was a legal spike fork.well i was wrong,The antler had three points on each side, the one side had a third tine that measured 1.5 ".This hunt went from exciting to disbelief right away.I knew right away what i had to do. I went to the nearest phone and reported it,the only available co, i could talk to was in Kamloops and I got yelled at by him.He was really angry at me. He told me that this animal was probably older and going backwards in antler growth. which, i new was not true, because it was a young bull. I then went back to the kill zone , gutted it , and then drove it into town and to the butcher shop. even the butcher said it was a young bull, and he also said that another one was taken mistakely the day before , it had brow tines on each antler making it illegal. I met with the local co the next day and told him my story. He was very nice about it, and was happy that i reported it, because there was a lot of meat that would of been wasted. He gave me a fine of $125(shooting a big game out of season) and said to pay it like a speeding ticket. If i didn't pay it , I would have to go to court and be charged.needless to say i paid it right away.The meat went to a homeless shelter. I went out and bought a spotting scope. I have been successfull with three moose leh since then.At least with leh you don't have to worry about antler configuration.
steel_ram
12-09-2010, 10:15 PM
Do people really think they should get a slap on the wrist for simply owning up to committing a crime? Yeah, it may have been a mistake, most likely caused by bad judgement, haste, lack of attention but it still happened. Owning up doesn't change things. It may however make the punishment more lenient and prevent one from getting charged with other offences, such as wasting wildlife, failing to report etc.
Laws have to have some teeth.
An animal illegally shot and left is wasted. It's not for us to decide what to feed the coyotes and ravens.
Jelvis
12-09-2010, 10:42 PM
When people do something wrong and admit or get caught the person judging them looks at their intent, what was their intent? What was the purpose of your actions? What are the mitigating factors?
Did you come forward because of remorse or because you knew you were identified?
Did you make a real honest mistake that others could have done also due to the circumstances you found yourself in? Or was it obvious you knew what you did was wrong before you did it.
What was the severity of your crime? Many factors that a judge can rule on by the report admitted by crown council.
If it's a small fine for a specific violation then pay it and avoid upsetting the court. If it's a serious charge, seek legal counsel.
Hi$ Jellyne$$ .. You think talk i$ cheap? Hire a lawyer. lol ..
White tail 09, this is exactly what I expected to happen, thought I read it in the regs. Anyway at least the meat was put to good use.
mpotzold
12-10-2010, 01:53 AM
This is a no-brainer!
One illegally shoots a game animal -one has to report it asap. PERIOD!
Failing to report it makes one no better than a poacher.
I’ve been hunting for over 40 years and have never illegally shot an animal or bird.
I won’t shoot until I’m 100% sure of my target and that means carefully & patiently glassing it and the surrounding area to remove any doubt.
This year I even got a whitetail tag to cover my ass. I’ve never seen a whitetail in 5-03 but there is an open season so you just never know.
This “honest mistake” excuse is a joke. Negligence is more like it!
Just recently(Oct.2010) an American woman that shot her husband was acquitted. They were hunting in Newfoundland 3 or 4 years ago. Although a seasoned hunter she mistook him for a black bear.
The judge swallowed the “it was an honest mistake” hook line and sinker! What a douche!
I also only shoot when 100% pos id, but that doesn't change the facts, there is still others who will shoot first. It should be fined based on circumstance, but somehow encouraged to be reported, giving the meat to those less fortunate is a good thing. Finding dead cow moose rotting in the bush is not.
I thank you all for responding to my thread. I do wonder if the responses here would be the same in a real life situation. From what I can tell hunters opinion seems to be split down the middle.
AT&T
BCBRAD
12-10-2010, 08:46 AM
I get it..... this whole topic is about saving money.....if I turn my self in it could be cheaper than getting caught........!
Camp Cook
12-10-2010, 08:47 AM
I'm not desperate enough so I don't shoot unless I am sure of what I am shooting at in other words I have never screwed up and probably never will.
Here is an example Nov 20 2010 my hunting partner and I spotted a 3X4 mule deer buck we were able to get to within 220 yards of it as he was following a doe around his 4th tine was questionable in its length I was 100% sure it was legal but it wasn't worth the risk so after 20 minutes of watching him we walked away.
BCBRAD
12-10-2010, 08:55 AM
Guntech makes good points I will admit I was thinking very much the same way but didnt bring it up. I think it is very honourable and shows much class and integrity to step up and be honest about accidents or just plan bad decisions..... however like guntech said why should this be veiwed any different than any other unlawful act, traffic violations, driving after consuming alcohol, driving quads without insurance, shooting too late or too early at that trophy animal, shooting 200 meters from a rd when your suppose to be 400 meters the list goes on and on!! Can anyone here honeslty say they would turn themselves for any of those unlawful acts if it was accidental or in poor judgement under pressure?????? If not then why not, whats the diff it could kind of sound hypicritical....no?? Hey just throwing it out there!!! Anyway all I can say is I dont know how i would react it hasnt happened to me as of yet, and i really hope I never have to test my integrity with this situation, and that is an honest answer.
'ethics'....there no ethics between man and animal....only between men. During the war (2) I heard as a kid that a person/soldier bayonetted an enemy in the back. Some righteous dudes would think that unmanly, coward act any other pompus cleche one can think of, but if that had not occured i would have never over heard the story.
jml11
12-10-2010, 09:43 AM
I'd call from a payphone, anonymous, and tell them what happened. Let them know where they can pick up/find the accidentally killed animal, and hang up. And treat my tag as cancelled. Getting the book thrown at you won't bring back the dead animal. What is the self reporting system for anyway
In this case there is probably still something illegal about not declaring yourself. In which case the CO's may treat it as a poaching and collect all necessary evidence at the site, including...the bullet(s), any left behind casings, any latent fingerprints on the left behind casings, boot tracks, tire treads, any witness statements from other hunters who oberved your truck in the area and perhaps heard the shots etc, which will all be logged in their system and could be tied back to you in the future...worth the risk? If they really want to get all CSI on you they could trace the call back to the pay phone and collect evidence there as well...more fingerprints...sruveillance footage from a nearby place of business...
jml11
12-10-2010, 09:57 AM
what you are not understanding Fixit is that the guys who "fall victim" to an over zealous CO 99.99999% of the time were trying to fudge something. The story didn't line up, the mistake was not that "honest" were trying to get away with it somehow......ect...
The people that were 100% honest from mistake to end would never get treated poorly, by any CO. Warnings/small fines are standard.
Unfortunately, an "over zealous" CO is normally confused with a CO that has picked up on some kind of BS that is being fed to him and deals with the situation as such. And by the content of many posts on this thread....the BS is likely fed to them CONSTANTLY.
I have spoken to many CO's regarding this topic many many times and they all say the same thing. If it stinks (at ALL) your getting treated poorly. If not, your getting off.
Agreed, as I stated earlier it's the whole situation that needs to be analyzed. Just the fact that a 5 point elk was shot in 6-point season or a 3-point moose was shot in 2-point season is not enough for a decision to be rendered. The CO needs to hear the entire story to fully understand why how the mistake occured. The statemant is actually probably more important than the antler configuration of the animal. If the mistake was made due to an over-zealous impatient decision...then yeah you may get charged...or if you were 'planning' on reporting and got approached by a CO on the way out, he is probably going to call you on it. I can see people who may actually intend to report, get home unchecked and decide later to just butcher the animal themselves and trow the antlers away...As it states in the regs, when you accidently kill an animal and intend to self-report, you are to indicate this in writing on your canceled tag immediately. Having done that I believe it would be ok to transport the animal and if checked by a CO, he will be able to see that you actually were going to self-report and were not trying to sneak it home.
In this case there is probably still something illegal about not declaring yourself. In which case the CO's may treat it as a poaching and collect all necessary evidence at the site, including...the bullet(s), any left behind casings, any latent fingerprints on the left behind casings, boot tracks, tire treads, any witness statements from other hunters who oberved your truck in the area and perhaps heard the shots etc, which will all be logged in their system and could be tied back to you in the future...worth the risk? If they really want to get all CSI on you they could trace the call back to the pay phone and collect evidence there as well...more fingerprints...sruveillance footage from a nearby place of business...
Your dreaming...... They are so short on man-power, funding, and time that this would never happen. Maybe on a high profile case, ie in a national park or in city limits....
At most they are going to take a couple pics, look for some case's and hope for a rapp call to come in. Thats why they put the hammer down when they can actually catch someone. Its far and few between...
We all wish they had the money to do the CIS thing on every file. But you can thank the liberals for that.
Tenacious Billy
12-10-2010, 10:12 AM
I'm not desperate enough so I don't shoot unless I am sure of what I am shooting at in other words I have never screwed up and probably never will.
Here is an example Nov 20 2010 my hunting partner and I spotted a 3X4 mule deer buck we were able to get to within 220 yards of it as he was following a doe around his 4th tine was questionable in its length I was 100% sure it was legal but it wasn't worth the risk so after 20 minutes of watching him we walked away.
If you're 100% sure, where's the risk?
Kody94
12-10-2010, 10:25 AM
I've won a lot of arguments over the years with people that were 100% sure they were right. And I've lost a couple where I was 100% sure I was right. Being 100% sure of something doesn't mean you are 100% right, or, in the case of hunting/shooting that you are protecting yourself from every single possible infinitely tiny little thing that COULD go wrong...however unimaginably unlikely.
Anyone that thinks they will never make a mistake is setting themselves up on a very high, and very shaky pedestal.
Another example...a friend of mine once killed an animal by mistake, that was standing about 20 yards to the right, and 15 yards further away than the animal he was shooting at. His bullet hit a rib on the way out the back of his intended target, deflected at more than 45 deg, and hit the other animal square in the head...killing it on the spot. How many folks that think they'll never screw up would have taken that shot, considering how far away, at such a steep angle, the second animal was? The odds had to be one in millions that could happen, but it did.
Camp Cook
12-10-2010, 10:32 AM
If you're 100% sure, where's the risk?
Not risk the word is need...
Neither of us were desperate enough or needed the meat enough that we needed to shoot so there was no risk when we decided to walk away also saved us from having to pack that guy out up that steep snow covered hillside which left us both with non-canceled tags that we could possibly have filled with a larger buck... :D
greenhorn
12-10-2010, 11:14 AM
IMO some people in this thread are making this way more complicated than it really is....
I was taught that the true measure of a man's ethics and morals is how he acts when no-one is around, looking or could possibly find out. The law is the law, and right is right, regardless of whether or not anyone is near you.
IMO all the people that rationalize breaking the rules/law because of over-punishment are making a big mistake. IMO rationalizing smuggling or leaving an animal as right because nothing is wasted, is also a mistake.
How can you tell it's a mistake, ask yourself this:
Would you teach your son/daughter to do what you did? Would you talk about your actions openly at the next family dinner, or with your coworkers?
If the answer is no, or maybe, or it "depends", then you know what you did was wrong.
On the other hand, if you make a mistake, own up to it, and get fined or charged, then you'll still be able to hold you head high because you did everything you could to "right" your "wrong".
Is your truck, gun, or a few hundred dollars worth more than your integrity?
I was taught that the true measure of a man's ethics and morals is how he acts when no-one is around, looking or could possibly find out. The law is the law, and right is right, regardless of whether or not anyone is near you.
See the problem I have with this statement is that almost everyone is a hypocrite in this regard, I am willing to bet the people who are preaching what you are saying break all kinds of other laws whether it be a traffic violation, underage drinking, smoking marijuana, these are all illegal acts, so how can they say have good morals and ethics?
The same guy who sits on here and says you are a poacher because you don't turn yourself in when you make a mistake, is smoking a joint on friday night, having to many drinks and driving, speeding etc. etc.
But yet you don't see these guys lining up at the police station monday morning to confess to all there mistakes?
greenhorn
12-10-2010, 11:51 AM
See the problem I have with this statement is that almost everyone is a hypocrite in this regard, I am willing to bet the people who are preaching what you are saying break all kinds of other laws whether it be a traffic violation, underage drinking, smoking marijuana, these are all illegal acts, so how can they say have good morals and ethics?
The same guy who sits on here and says you are a poacher because you don't turn yourself in when you make a mistake, is smoking a joint on friday night, having to many drinks and driving, speeding etc. etc.
But yet you don't see these guys lining up at the police station monday morning to confess to all there mistakes?
You're right, I agree that they are hypocrites.....
On the other hand, the reason the people you describe don't self report these things is because they probably know that a) there's no chance of getting in trouble, and b) no one that they tell (excluding maybe their parents if they're young) will care. Because of this thought process, it's easy to discount these things as minor or things that don't matter.
What I'm talking about is people who know they've messed up, know that there may be consequences, and because they don't have the parts to face the music, try to rationalize their actions by excuses...
Besides all that, who cares if other people break laws and act like idiots. The "everyone else is doing it" thought process has been responsible for some really horrible behaviour throughout human history.
goatdancer
12-10-2010, 11:53 AM
What is with the reference to speeding? I speed. That makes me a speeder. I don't care if I'm branded as a speeder. If I get caught , I'll pay the fine. I hunt. That makes me a hunter. I like the title. If I were to walk away from an honest mistake, that would make me a poacher. That is something I never want to known as.
jml11
12-10-2010, 11:55 AM
Your dreaming...... They are so short on man-power, funding, and time that this would never happen. Maybe on a high profile case, ie in a national park or in city limits....
At most they are going to take a couple pics, look for some case's and hope for a rapp call to come in. Thats why they put the hammer down when they can actually catch someone. Its far and few between...
We all wish they had the money to do the CIS thing on every file. But you can thank the liberals for that.
Sure that might be the case, but can you guarantee they won't investigate to that level? Like I said is that a risk you'd be willing to take? It could be as simple as driving out to the site and speaking to other hunters in the area who can ID your truck and tie it back to you. Or like you said a RAPP call about someone in a X colored GM/Dodge/ford truck with big mud tires parked at the block enterance where you later went and found a animal left to rot...You would be surprised who's out there paying attention. I can't speak for everyone, but I often make a point of noting the vehicles I come across while I am out and about. Recall the post the KES made about the guy in a big yellow truck who blocked him in by falling a tree on the road? Look at the response he got and the person was found and identified (license plate) in short order...
With these same funding constraints, the likelihood of ever being stopped by a CO on your way out is also quite small, but it does happen and people do get caught as a result.
For anyone, even the miniscule chance of getting caught should be enough to do the right thing (in addition to ethics) because the punishment will be much more severe when caught red-handed.
snareman1234
12-10-2010, 11:56 AM
See the problem I have with this statement is that almost everyone is a hypocrite in this regard, I am willing to bet the people who are preaching what you are saying break all kinds of other laws whether it be a traffic violation, underage drinking, smoking marijuana, these are all illegal acts, so how can they say have good morals and ethics?
The same guy who sits on here and says you are a poacher because you don't turn yourself in when you make a mistake, is smoking a joint on friday night, having to many drinks and driving, speeding etc. etc.
But yet you don't see these guys lining up at the police station monday morning to confess to all there mistakes?
Guntech makes good points I will admit I was thinking very much the same way but didnt bring it up. I think it is very honourable and shows much class and integrity to step up and be honest about accidents or just plan bad decisions..... however like guntech said why should this be veiwed any different than any other unlawful act, traffic violations, driving after consuming alcohol, driving quads without insurance, shooting too late or too early at that trophy animal, shooting 200 meters from a rd when your suppose to be 400 meters the list goes on and on!! Can anyone here honeslty say they would turn themselves for any of those unlawful acts if it was accidental or in poor judgement under pressure?????? If not then why not, whats the diff it could kind of sound hypicritical....no?? Hey just throwing it out there!!! Anyway all I can say is I dont know how i would react it hasnt happened to me as of yet, and i really hope I never have to test my integrity with this situation, and that is an honest answer.
Lol this is what ive been thinking,
seems like there's alot of armchair ethics and righteousness being preached here
jml11
12-10-2010, 12:11 PM
But yet you don't see these guys lining up at the police station monday morning to confess to all there mistakes?
No but these incidents you referenced are hardly mistakes, they are guilty actions with a guilty conscience (they know they are breaking the law). Poachers don't self report their guilty actions either which is why they are called labelled as such. This thread is about reporting a hunting incident where there was never an intent to break the law yet it occured, so what do you do? You keep trying to compare this to incidents where the individual knows they are breaking the law. Kody94's example is probably the closest, where an indivdual hits another unattended car in parking lot...an accident...so now how do you deal with it? Leave the scene of accident (illegal and subject to stiff fines and loss of driving priviledges if caught) or report it properly and deal with potential consequences which will likely be no more than a warning or small fine, if that even?
pale rider
12-10-2010, 12:14 PM
i was trying to start a new thread but cant,dont think ive been a member long enough,anyway,coming from the worst country in the world,were field sports,hunting is fround upon,i dont know what yo lot are on about points etc,all ive ever shot is a tree d target.
huntcoop
12-10-2010, 12:20 PM
i was trying to start a new thread but cant,dont think ive been a member long enough,anyway,coming from the worst country in the world,were field sports,hunting is fround upon,i dont know what yo lot are on about points etc,all ive ever shot is a tree d target.
....... :shock: .
stitch
12-10-2010, 12:28 PM
will this thread ever die????? :roll:
greenhorn
12-10-2010, 12:43 PM
Lol this is what ive been thinking,
seems like there's alot of armchair ethics and righteousness being preached here
This response is the classic/standard one that people end up putting on these threads. No real rebuttal so it all is discounted as armchair ethics and righteous preaching.
To all the posters who think the animal should be smuggled, left in the woods, or that my arguments are hypocritical I would say this:
Everyone on this site says they're against poaching because it illegal, against conservation efforts, and they think it's deplorable. But, given the hypothetical scenario discussed here some of you say you'd do the illegal thing for reasons X, Y and Z. Another reason people love to use is the "everyone breaks the law in some way" reason.
So you're against poaching and poacher-like actions, but when the chips are down you'd do/say poacher-like things.
Who's the hypocrite now?
snareman1234
12-10-2010, 01:00 PM
This response is the classic/standard one that people end up putting on these threads. No real rebuttal so it all is discounted as armchair ethics and righteous preaching.
To all the posters who think the animal should be smuggled, left in the woods, or that my arguments are hypocritical I would say this:
Everyone on this site says they're against poaching because it illegal, against conservation efforts, and they think it's deplorable. But, given the hypothetical scenario discussed here some of you say you'd do the illegal thing for reasons X, Y and Z. Another reason people love to use is the "everyone breaks the law in some way" reason.
So you're against poaching and poacher-like actions, but when the chips are down you'd do/say poacher-like things.
Who's the hypocrite now?
Hey Im not saying your a hypocrite, or anyone is really, but I would say the stats on all the guys preaching that they would do the right thing, and right is the best policy,
May not reflect stats of what all these people have really done. or would do.
I would say if 95% say turn yourself in on here,
maybe 50% actually would, because most are legitimate, but some are not
I didnt write this thread about posters. Maybe there are different rules for people who live where they hunt compared to city hunters?
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 02:25 PM
I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong.
Jelly Long Cas Sal ..
wolverine
12-10-2010, 02:59 PM
It's one thing for some to turn themselves in when there was a couple of boys there watching, and wondering, what if there was no one watching then what?
Jel .. When someone is with you and you blow it, that's one thing you know you must report, but what if no one would have known? Makes quite a bit of difference when some one was there, and would tell someone eh? And report what you did.
Well Jelly, that's what the definition of Character isn't it? Character: How one conducts ones self when you thing no one is watching.
It's much like Common Sense. Rarely do you acquire it. It's something you either have or you don't.
budismyhorse
12-10-2010, 03:02 PM
Lol this is what ive been thinking,
seems like there's alot of armchair ethics and righteousness being preached here
Unreal.
after this thread gets around 9000 views some guy comes on and rattles off a response like this
Its a debate hombre....maybe you just come on this website for pics of fish and big deer, but others enjoy the discussion.
I can't stand it when this response gets thrown onto threads. It is essentially discouraging people from posting comment counter to the popular opinion and shouldn't be tolerated.
budismyhorse
12-10-2010, 03:12 PM
Hey Im not saying your a hypocrite, or anyone is really, but I would say the stats on all the guys preaching that they would do the right thing, and right is the best policy,
May not reflect stats of what all these people have really done. or would do.
I would say if 95% say turn yourself in on here,
maybe 50% actually would, because most are legitimate, but some are not
Snareman......thanks for the opinion backed up with an explanation! I think you are onto something. When the chips are down, not many would actually turn themselves in......but thanks to this discussion, maybe a few more will....No?
Next time, save your previous post insulting peoples posts and opinions.
CanuckShooter
12-10-2010, 06:44 PM
Snareman......thanks for the opinion backed up with an explanation! I think you are onto something. When the chips are down, not many would actually turn themselves in......but thanks to this discussion, maybe a few more will....No?
Next time, save your previous post insulting peoples posts and opinions.
For those saying they probably wouldn't self report the concern seems to be the possibility of facing excessive punishment. Loss of hunting privileges, firearms seizure, dragged through the court system, etc etc etc.
I would suspect that if you asked the same question, with the add-on that a self reporting hunter would only face a maximum fine of $200 [just pulled a number out of the hat]..that the answers would be quite different.
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 07:17 PM
What if you shot an illegal animal and you paid $275.00 for a fine.
Then the next time out in the bush on a ridge, you make another honest to goodness mistake and no one there but the ravens, and now what?
.. Would you turn your sorry butt in so soon?
Jel ( Be Honest ) It was another honest mistake. It just happened, I didn't want to make another.
steel_ram
12-10-2010, 07:54 PM
Then the next time out in the bush on a ridge, you make another honest to goodness mistake and no one there but the ravens, and now what?
.. Would you turn your sorry butt in so soon?
I would say if you mad another "mistake" next time out, you probably need to take up another hobby.
I sincerely hope The CO service is looking at this. That was part of my intent.
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 07:59 PM
I said, she said, it was an honest mistake, the bullet reco shayed off a rock and took out another animal, but who, who would believe it?
Jel ( 4 Sally ) The truth is stranger than fiction .. Believe it or not? ..
budismyhorse
12-10-2010, 08:01 PM
For those saying they probably wouldn't self report the concern seems to be the possibility of facing excessive punishment. Loss of hunting privileges, firearms seizure, dragged through the court system, etc etc etc.
I would suspect that if you asked the same question, with the add-on that a self reporting hunter would only face a maximum fine of $200 [just pulled a number out of the hat]..that the answers would be quite different.
CS the fact is that most "accidental" illegal kills are extremely avoidable........so when you bring one in, you have to face the slings and arrows.....no guarantees you will get a small fine and walk.
if you did something dumb and unsafe which resulted in an illegal animal being killed, a CO will likely try to create a situation where you won't easily forget and repeat the performance.
I say it's a sad example of many current hunter's attitudes. I can't believe so many would be willing to risk much much bigger fines, 5 years of lost hunting privledges, and even jail time by walking away from a critter just because they have heard some so-called horror stories of guys that self reported. You are taking a much bigger risk walking away or sneakin it home. Why is it that many can't see that?
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 08:11 PM
I really think a person should at least gut the animal in question properly, clean it out and then deal with it what ever you decide, it's your choice first no one elses, gut it, preserve the carcass in an edible fashion. Cancel tag on the spot. Then decide with your conscience and good reasoning what to do.
Jelly ( Gut animal then decide ) How your going to do this? Wasting meat is the same as stealing.
CanuckShooter
12-10-2010, 08:17 PM
CS the fact is that most "accidental" illegal kills are extremely avoidable........so when you bring one in, you have to face the slings and arrows.....no guarantees you will get a small fine and walk.
if you did something dumb and unsafe which resulted in an illegal animal being killed, a CO will likely try to create a situation where you won't easily forget and repeat the performance.
And that is exactly why so many would just walk away.
Would you turn yourself in for something like accidental shoplifting if you didn't know the penalty you might face? You could face some embarrassment, all the way up to being dragged into public court with your picture posted on the front pages of your local rag...the judge might even lock you up for a few weekends...
IF they made the self reporting penalty something most guys could 'suck-up' as a fair and equitable penalty for making a mistake, or accidentally killing the wrong animal...more guys would belly up to the bar and take their punishment...when the door is left open to being dragged through the court system...a lot of people are going to try and avoid the chance of it happening.
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 08:37 PM
I believe in the BC MOE and the CO law enforcement of those rules. I know a lot of thought has been put into the regulations and the enforcement part by professionals in the field by experience and in the class room.
They've heard the stories and saw examples of what to expect from a BC hunting and trapping season.
Let's not pretend or misunderstand we know more than the MOE.
Let's try to enjoy our BC hunting and trapping by following the rules as close as we can, and if we make a dum mistake or we are unlucky and have something go wrong. Let's deal with the meat, gut it, protect the carcass and do what our conscience tells us to do.
Jel ( Do not waste good meat ) That would be the biggest mistake.
I can't believe this thread! I've been biting my tongue for two days. Or maybe I'm at a loss for words. I can't believe i share the woods with some of you. Unfortunately, accidents do happen, for numerous reasons and some beyond our control. If you walk away from an animal you may as well start hunting for deer in July because you obviously don't have any regard for the regulations! I would bet the same guys that would leave an illegal animal would also walk if upon closer inspection (after the trigger is pulled) their trophy wasn't big enough. After reading this thread it's no wonder it's so hard to find a good hunting partner.
And that is exactly why so many would just walk away.
Would you turn yourself in for something like accidental shoplifting if you didn't know the penalty you might face? You could face some embarrassment, all the way up to being dragged into public court with your picture posted on the front pages of your local rag...the judge might even lock you up for a few weekends...
IF they made the self reporting penalty something most guys could 'suck-up' as a fair and equitable penalty for making a mistake, or accidentally killing the wrong animal...more guys would belly up to the bar and take their punishment...when the door is left open to being dragged through the court system...a lot of people are going to try and avoid the chance of it happening.
CS,
Stop promoting the BS fear mongering. No one is going to get their ass handed to them if they indeed were honest in their mistake and their self reporting. Just because you heard of a guy that said such and such BS and just because you have read it on HBC don't make it true. Like has been stated many many a time in this thread, you don't know the truth behind those stories.
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 09:25 PM
There is three sides to every story, your side, my side, and the exact truth. Deal with it, cause and affect, your the cause, deal with your decision process, add some truth and mix it with honesty and hang yourself .. or maybe free yourself .. self your self .. all by yourself .. make a decision ..
Jel ( Big Dee seegge johns ) Bone Crusher $mith .. James Lights Out .. Toe Knee .. The Real Deal Holyfield ..
greenhorn
12-10-2010, 09:57 PM
And that is exactly why so many would just walk away.
Would you turn yourself in for something like accidental shoplifting if you didn't know the penalty you might face? You could face some embarrassment, all the way up to being dragged into public court with your picture posted on the front pages of your local rag...the judge might even lock you up for a few weekends...
IF they made the self reporting penalty something most guys could 'suck-up' as a fair and equitable penalty for making a mistake, or accidentally killing the wrong animal...more guys would belly up to the bar and take their punishment...when the door is left open to being dragged through the court system...a lot of people are going to try and avoid the chance of it happening.
I don't think that's true. If COs promised a slap on the wrist after you self report, all that would happen is that the people that "walk away" would fabricate another rationalization for "walking away". It would probably sound something like, "only poachers should pay a fine, I made an honest mistake".
I've said it before in this thread. I'd rather take the lumps and hold my head high. If my punishment was excessive, then I'd take action to correct it. Canada is the land of second chances. We've all read stories of criminals getting appeals and light sentences for mitigating circumstances. Heck, even some of the sentences handed down for convicted repeat poachers are light.
The logic that "I'll do the right thing if it doesn't cost me too much" is sad.
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 10:05 PM
No body wants to be looked down on or rejected by others because they got caught doing what many others have done and got a way with it.
Those types will say you gotta file with a ticket and fine and a record. I don't, but that guy could be worse than you or I or him. lol.
Bruises from a scrap can heal and scar a bit, but inside from ridicule and people pointing that's him the poacher, and there doing stuff worse but ner bin cot hic
sorry hic, dang hic upz
Jelly $lickToxic ..........I'm loozin it
Downtown
12-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Fastest way to go from a hunter to a poacher. Turn yourself in. HBC users are famous for distancing themselves from those who make mistakes. No tolerance for someone making a mistake. I've always maintained, everyone makes mistakes. It's how you deal with it that defines character. If you are a hunter and you make a mistake, it doesn't make you a poacher. It confirms you're human.
Well said.
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 10:30 PM
Man that brought tears to my eyes J__T going down town ...
Downtown
12-10-2010, 10:38 PM
Well said..........
Its easy to make yourself look good on a public forum like most people try to do here, but anything can happen out in the bush. Thats why I only believe about 10% what people on this forum write.
Again, well said:-D
Gotta love a good debate :)
I just hope that I will never be in such a position.... but if I am, I will do what I feel is right, until then I'll just keep hunting :).
steel_ram
12-10-2010, 10:45 PM
The act of turning yourself in doesn't make you a "poacher". The crime's been commited! The deed is done. You ARE a "criminal". Deal with it and hopefully your situation will warrant some lieniency. You try to sneak off you will have commited more crimes.
Sounds like we've got a bunch of, "only stealing if we get caught", types.
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 10:54 PM
I think most are missing the substance of the debate the meat that is laying there in the form of a dead animal you killed, cancel tag, now bleed it, gut it, and cool it open. Now the meat can be used by a family in need, a mitigating factor for you right there, responsible action, saved meat, a mark on the wall for your sorry ass.
Now, you have to make a very important decision, you made the wrong one when you killed it, but the right one when you saved all that wild organic meat with protein up the ying yang.
It's an emotional imbalance and a mental process under stress, take a deep breath and slowly blow it out, repeat then think about your action which will have consequences following each step you decide to take.
Jel shake and bake
pearljam
12-10-2010, 11:13 PM
So do you think if you turn yourself in you shouldnt be called a poacher? You still have broken the law..... Maybe we could call it being an honest poacher???? Paying a fine sure doesnt bring the animal back...
When your in the bush you have 100% control of what you shoot. Mistakes can happen but 99% of the time they are avoidable mistakes.
But we should forgive guys who do the right thing and turn themselves in or guys who have a lot of sheep knowledge...
Guys sure suck up to B. Martin, a known poacher who didnt turn himself in but got caught a couple times braking wildlife laws..... But thats thrown out the window cause he's a big sheep guy and the WSSBC love him,,,, weak!
Jelvis
12-10-2010, 11:26 PM
There are lots of things you can do that are way worse then killing a deer by mistake. It's not like your a mass murderer ok. But don't waste the meat.
It's a deer and the co will take deer and give you a fine around 200 dollars, and give meat to needy people in the local area.
You will have a blemish on your wildlife computer record.
Jel .. I'm just guessing of course but hey what's the worse thing that could happen?
hunter1947
12-10-2010, 11:51 PM
There are lots of things you can do that are way worse then killing a deer by mistake. It's not like your a mass murderer ok. But don't waste the meat.
It's a deer and the co will take deer and give you a fine around 200 dollars, and give meat to needy people in the local area.
You will have a blemish on your wildlife computer record.
Jel .. I'm just guessing of course but hey what's the worse thing that could happen?
Exactly jel this is what I would do if it happened to me :wink:..
BCBRAD
12-11-2010, 08:24 AM
Loose lips .......sink ships
CanuckShooter
12-11-2010, 08:31 AM
CS,
Stop promoting the BS fear mongering. No one is going to get their ass handed to them if they indeed were honest in their mistake and their self reporting. Just because you heard of a guy that said such and such BS and just because you have read it on HBC don't make it true. Like has been stated many many a time in this thread, you don't know the truth behind those stories.
Dana...sorry if you fear it's fear mongering...although my experience with an over zealous CO probably puts a different shade on things.
One season I was accompanying my pardner on a late season cow elk hunt, and we came upon a big mulie buck with a broken front shoulder....he was in real bad shape and the coyotes were following him and taking bites out of his hind quarters....being ethical we didn't want to just put him out of his misery, so instead we phoned the CO in FT. ST. John and he gave us permission over the phone to kill him, field dress him, and stop in at their office for a permit for the salvaged meat [he said he would keep the antlers if it was as big as we said]and we could give the meat to a handicapped fellow we knew in PG.
When we showed up in the Fort, the CO came out to look at the animal, started asking questions...started interrogating...and then said he 'had to inform me that anything I said to him beyond this point he might be using against me in court'!!!
I had done nothing wrong, we had secured permission, I had reported as requested...and that azzhole was going to charge me!!! FOR POACHING!!!
Wouldn't that have been fun, I would have had to hire a lawyer, attend court 300 miles from home...etc etc etc..
Thank my lucky stars that I am damm near perfect and don't make mistakes on the animals I harvest...because I tell you it would be extremely difficult to self report and trust that the CO would dish out a fair punishment...you trust them, I don't.
Stone Sheep Steve
12-11-2010, 08:32 AM
Just ask yourself...what's the worst thing that can happen if you report it??
vs.....what's the worst thing that can happen if you didn't report it and eventually got caught??
Also.... ask yourself how much do you like really hunting?:neutral:
SSS
Camp Cook
12-11-2010, 09:20 AM
Dana...sorry if you fear it's fear mongering...although my experience with an over zealous CO probably puts a different shade on things.
One season I was accompanying my pardner on a late season cow elk hunt, and we came upon a big mulie buck with a broken front shoulder....he was in real bad shape and the coyotes were following him and taking bites out of his hind quarters....being ethical we didn't want to just put him out of his misery, so instead we phoned the CO in FT. ST. John and he gave us permission over the phone to kill him, field dress him, and stop in at their office for a permit for the salvaged meat [he said he would keep the antlers if it was as big as we said]and we could give the meat to a handicapped fellow we knew in PG.
When we showed up in the Fort, the CO came out to look at the animal, started asking questions...started interrogating...and then said he 'had to inform me that anything I said to him beyond this point he might be using against me in court'!!!
I had done nothing wrong, we had secured permission, I had reported as requested...and that azzhole was going to charge me!!! FOR POACHING!!!
Wouldn't that have been fun, I would have had to hire a lawyer, attend court 300 miles from home...etc etc etc..
Thank my lucky stars that I am damm near perfect and don't make mistakes on the animals I harvest...because I tell you it would be extremely difficult to self report and trust that the CO would dish out a fair punishment...you trust them, I don't.
Interesting story...
I would have come unglued if the prick would hav tried to pull that on me...
budismyhorse
12-11-2010, 09:34 AM
Dana...sorry if you fear it's fear mongering...although my experience with an over zealous CO probably puts a different shade on things.
One season I was accompanying my pardner on a late season cow elk hunt, and we came upon a big mulie buck with a broken front shoulder....he was in real bad shape and the coyotes were following him and taking bites out of his hind quarters....being ethical we didn't want to just put him out of his misery, so instead we phoned the CO in FT. ST. John and he gave us permission over the phone to kill him, field dress him, and stop in at their office for a permit for the salvaged meat [he said he would keep the antlers if it was as big as we said]and we could give the meat to a handicapped fellow we knew in PG.
When we showed up in the Fort, the CO came out to look at the animal, started asking questions...started interrogating...and then said he 'had to inform me that anything I said to him beyond this point he might be using against me in court'!!! He has to tell you that in case YOU DID TURN OUT TO HAVE POACHED IT.........he has no idea at that time you actually didn't poach it until he talks to you a bit. RELAX.
I had done nothing wrong, we had secured permission, I had reported as requested...and that azzhole was going to charge me!!! FOR POACHING!!!
Wouldn't that have been fun, I would have had to hire a lawyer, attend court 300 miles from home...etc etc etc..
Thank my lucky stars that I am damm near perfect and don't make mistakes on the animals I harvest...because I tell you it would be extremely difficult to self report and trust that the CO would dish out a fair punishment...you trust them, I don't.
CS, people try to pull off stuff like that from time to time. He has to treat you as if you were trying to poach that deer UNTIL he is satisfied that you didn't. Only you can actually see into your own mind....he can't.
Another thing about one of your posts a page or two back....... A lot of hunters are out there doing things they THINK is totally fine, but the fact is, it is unsafe and does not show due diligence (which we are required to do). When they bring an illegal animal in because they did something stupid, the level of stupidity will be judged and if that person needs to really smarten up, I can only hope they get charged hard enough so they take the mistake they made seriously.
CO's hate seeing repeat offenders.......If a voluntary fine was like some kind of stamp you get when you accidently kill something you shouldn't have, the repeat offenders would be increased no doubt.
Look at Dana's story, a young hunter at the time making a huge mistake. Did the right thing and the CO judged the situation that he has learned from this mistake and won't likely repeat.
Same story with a veteran hunter and his buddy. No real excuse but "I screwed up".........do you really think that guy is going to wise up after a small fine? Maybe, but the CO (based on facts and their attitude regarding the situation) may get a bit more wound up in order to get the hunter to get his point accross.
And if that is one less guy taking ill-advised shots and killing illegal animals, so be it.
budismyhorse
12-11-2010, 09:40 AM
Interesting story...
I would have come unglued if the prick would hav tried to pull that on me...
Why???
why not say " cool, I didn't do anything wrong"........
...and life goes on......
CanuckShooter
12-11-2010, 09:48 AM
Interesting story...
I would have come unglued if the prick would hav tried to pull that on me...
Camp Cook>> AND that is exactly what did happen.......I had more than a few choice words for him when he told me that....and those words came out at quite an elevated sound level.
budismyhorse>>he told me that after about two hours of bringing us in one at a time for more questions [interrogation], so he was obviously convinced that we had the balls to poach a deer and bring it in for inspection and to collect a permit for it.....the stupidity of it was beyond my comprehension.
Dana...sorry if you fear it's fear mongering...although my experience with an over zealous CO probably puts a different shade on things.
One season I was accompanying my pardner on a late season cow elk hunt, and we came upon a big mulie buck with a broken front shoulder....he was in real bad shape and the coyotes were following him and taking bites out of his hind quarters....being ethical we didn't want to just put him out of his misery, so instead we phoned the CO in FT. ST. John and he gave us permission over the phone to kill him, field dress him, and stop in at their office for a permit for the salvaged meat [he said he would keep the antlers if it was as big as we said]and we could give the meat to a handicapped fellow we knew in PG.
When we showed up in the Fort, the CO came out to look at the animal, started asking questions...started interrogating...and then said he 'had to inform me that anything I said to him beyond this point he might be using against me in court'!!!
I had done nothing wrong, we had secured permission, I had reported as requested...and that azzhole was going to charge me!!! FOR POACHING!!!
Wouldn't that have been fun, I would have had to hire a lawyer, attend court 300 miles from home...etc etc etc..
Thank my lucky stars that I am damm near perfect and don't make mistakes on the animals I harvest...because I tell you it would be extremely difficult to self report and trust that the CO would dish out a fair punishment...you trust them, I don't.
I know its tough not too feel bad for the poor deer, but thats life! Its cruel, Why do we think we have to intervene all the time. That deer would have fed a lot of wildlife and spared another deer down the road. If you really wanted to save the deer go out and shoot the yotes bothering them....
As for the CO..... Sounds like he was being a dick for no reason....
I'm not sure what I would do in this "thread" topic. A cop guy I know once told me, "Only the dumbest criminals admit the truth...."
CanuckShooter
12-11-2010, 09:55 AM
CS, people try to pull off stuff like that from time to time. He has to treat you as if you were trying to poach that deer UNTIL he is satisfied that you didn't. Only you can actually see into your own mind....he can't.
Another thing about one of your posts a page or two back....... A lot of hunters are out there doing things they THINK is totally fine, but the fact is, it is unsafe and does not show due diligence (which we are required to do). When they bring an illegal animal in because they did something stupid, the level of stupidity will be judged and if that person needs to really smarten up, I can only hope they get charged hard enough so they take the mistake they made seriously.
CO's hate seeing repeat offenders.......If a voluntary fine was like some kind of stamp you get when you accidently kill something you shouldn't have, the repeat offenders would be increased no doubt.
Look at Dana's story, a young hunter at the time making a huge mistake. Did the right thing and the CO judged the situation that he has learned from this mistake and won't likely repeat.
Same story with a veteran hunter and his buddy. No real excuse but "I screwed up".........do you really think that guy is going to wise up after a small fine? Maybe, but the CO (based on facts and their attitude regarding the situation) may get a bit more wound up in order to get the hunter to get his point accross.
And if that is one less guy taking ill-advised shots and killing illegal animals, so be it.
Dana and his young hunter were fortunate they didn't run into an over zealous CO too, they ran into one that had some common sense. They could just as easily have lost their hunting privileges for several years, been dragged through the courts, had to hire a lawyer and broke the family budget....after all they were 'guilty' they had offered up a voluntary 'confession'....
I stand by my position that the 'fine' for making a mistake, and voluntarily reporting it, should be defined and not left open to unnecessary persecution by our legal system.
CanuckShooter
12-11-2010, 09:59 AM
I know its tough not too feel bad for the poor deer, but thats life! Its cruel, Why do we think we have to intervene all the time. That deer would have fed a lot of wildlife and spared another deer down the road. If you really wanted to save the deer go out and shoot the yotes bothering them....
As for the CO..... Sounds like he was being a dick for no reason....
I'm not sure what I would do in this "thread" topic. A cop guy I know once told me, "Only the dumbest criminals admit the truth...."
In this instance I did feel bad about how that deer was suffering....we talked about what if anything we should do about it and came to the conclusion to call the CO and ask them. We asked him: Should we leave mother nature to her ways, should we shoot it and put it out of it's misery, or what?? He suggested if we were willing to salvage the meat for a needy family that he would give us a permit for it under his conditons...so we did and damm near ended up being prosecuted for it.
In this instance I did feel bad about how that deer was suffering....we talked about what if anything we should do about it and came to the conclusion to call the CO and ask them. We asked him: Should we leave mother nature to her ways, should we shoot it and put it out of it's misery, or what?? He suggested if we were willing to salvage the meat for a needy family that he would give us a permit for it under his conditons...so we did and damm near ended up being prosecuted for it.
And I'm sure it's a lesson learnt!!
budismyhorse
12-11-2010, 10:03 AM
Dana and his young hunter were fortunate they didn't run into an over zealous CO too, they ran into one that had some common sense. They could just as easily have lost their hunting privileges for several years, been dragged through the courts, had to hire a lawyer and broke the family budget....after all they were 'guilty' they had offered up a voluntary 'confession'....
I stand by my position that the 'fine' for making a mistake, and voluntarily reporting it, should be defined and not left open to unnecessary persecution by our legal system.
No, they were not fortunate they did the exact correct thing and were treated farely.
In NO WAY would someone in Dana's situation fall "victim" to much worse than they were given. Much less some kind of over-dramatic scene you discribe.......one that does not fit the crime in any way BTW.
In fact, I defy you to find someone in this province that carried out the scene as Dana did and was "dragged through the courts"......
WON"T HAPPEN.
Fear mongering at its finest.
CanuckShooter
12-11-2010, 10:13 AM
No, they were not fortunate they did the exact correct thing and were treated farely.
In NO WAY would someone in Dana's situation fall "victim" to much worse than they were given. Much less some kind of over-dramatic scene you discribe.......one that does not fit the crime in any way BTW.
In fact, I defy you to find someone in this province that carried out the scene as Dana did and was "dragged through the courts"......
WON"T HAPPEN.
Fear mongering at its finest.
We almost fell victim....you can deflect away from the facts all you like but it CAN happen, whether it ever has or not I have no personal knowledge of..but as I explained my personal experience has given me a perspective all my own.
BTW, I am not a fear monger..I am a trouble maker ;-)
CS,
COs are trained Peace Officers and they know how to interigate. Just because the CO seemed like a dick to you doesn't mean he actually was a dick. You obviously didn't get charged so I'd say your story is not valid. Your BS fear mongering is still rampant and you keep throwing out extremes of lost hunting privilages, court time ect... which is NOT the case for me or you either. Just because the CO played the good cop, bad cop routine doesn't mean $hit. There is a cop here that when she pulls over a speeder comes up and starts waving her finger around and giving the driver a big lecture. If you encountered her on a drive through Clearwater you wouldn't ever forget it. So the next time you are speeding and you see flashing lights, do you make a run for it because you had so-called bad experience with a cop in Clearwater once? That is the logic you are giving people here. You had a CO play good cop, bad cop and you got your feelings hurt, so therefore in your mind it's better that hunters just walk away and hope no one ever saw them?
Seriously I take big issue with this attitude because 1, I've self reported and have seen things first hand ain't as bad as you are trying to make them out to be, and 2, I am FLIPPIN tired of finding dead 3 points in the bush left to rot because some jack-ass doesn't have the balls to live up to their mistakes.
And BTW have you ever met the COs in Clearwater. Lets just say the good cop bad cop routine is played quite often. That is their job. And they do it well. Matter of fact one of our CO's just was awarded CO of the year this year. Was a big write up in the local paper.
budismyhorse
12-11-2010, 10:24 AM
I see that!
however, you didn't "almost" fall victim to anything..............
I reported a wounded griz and was told the same damn thing......I don't go around wiping my brow about how close I came to getting charged for shooting a grizz.
if you go around warning people of the perils of self reporting .......you are infact a fear monger.....sorry.
high and to the right
12-11-2010, 11:44 AM
I was one of the misfortunate ones to have shot a wrong point sized moose a few years ago. We saw a CO looking into the bush with his binoculars when we drove by him on a FSR. My partner and I talked about it and thought - was he looking at a moose? When we drove back he was gone but we got out of the truck and glassed into the bush. There it was - a moose. He just stood there in the thick brush and we counted for about 5 minutes - legal! When he moved to a small shooting lane - Boom - down. Walk in the bush - NOOOOOO!
We drove to a place where we could get cell service and called the CO office. No one home. Left a message of what happened and went back to retrieve the animal and brought it to the office quartered and in meat sacks.
We were interviewed and they took a statement. The CO that was in the field walked in while we were there and came into the room where I was and said, "You shot the moose I was looking at? I thought it was legal too"
He and the other CO went into a room and left us alone for awhile. They came back and said, "We would love to just let you off with a warning but we can't. There is a standard fine that applies to your offence that we have to give you." They recommended that I go to court and fight the fine and the one CO even said we could use his report that he thought that it looked legal to him." Since we were 1500 km from home - not going to go back for a court hearing so I paid the fine. It was somewhere around $200 (forgot the exact amount). I got the fine and was told that if I get another offence for anything related to hunting within 2 years that I would lose my hunting license for 2 - 5 years.
The CO's actually seemed sorry for me and sent us on our way. THEN the next day, when we came back from the morning hunt, there was a note on our camper door saying the CO had been there and we need to call him immediately. We did and he said that he went over the case with his superior and was told that even though he understood our circumstances, the regulations state that you are only allowed to take one moose in a calendar year. (Under Accidental Illegal Harvest it says: "Immediately cancel your species licence and mark in ink on the species license page that your intention is to self report"). This note was not in the regs when I shot my illegal moose but the fact of only taking one moose per hunter per year was in effect. I cancelled my tag, packed up and went home.
What I've learned.
1. There are good and bad experiences with CO's. This was a good one. I also know of many bad encounters with over zealous CO's
2. If you self report an illegal act the CO does not have an option but to fine you. If he doesn't he is taking the law into his own hands (from reports on this thread it sounds like some have done this).
3. The severity of the charges will determine the fine. Self reporting will always be the cheapest way to go (unless you shoot, shovel and shut up).
4. You will lose your tag for that species for one year. ie shoot on Oct 1 and you can't buy a tag until Oct 1 of the following year. (At least that is what they wrote on my license)
5. There will be a 2 year probation before your record is cleared. Break any wild life or fire arms hunting laws in that period and be prepared to pay a fine plus lose your hunting privilege for a time.
6. Since I was the one that pulled the trigger, it was up to me to make the decision about self reporting. If it had been my partner that shot, it would be his decision and I would honour it. If I could not live with his decision then I would put another bullet in the downed animal and claim it as my own and do what I believed was the right thing to do. (you don't rat out a partner)
high and to the right....
Not enough points on your moose??? good on ya for doing the right thing...
I was one of the misfortunate ones to have shot a wrong point sized moose a few years ago. We saw a CO looking into the bush with his binoculars when we drove by him on a FSR. My partner and I talked about it and thought - was he looking at a moose? When we drove back he was gone but we got out of the truck and glassed into the bush. There it was - a moose. He just stood there in the thick brush and we counted for about 5 minutes - legal! When he moved to a small shooting lane - Boom - down. Walk in the bush - NOOOOOO!
We drove to a place where we could get cell service and called the CO office. No one home. Left a message of what happened and went back to retrieve the animal and brought it to the office quartered and in meat sacks.
We were interviewed and they took a statement. The CO that was in the field walked in while we were there and came into the room where I was and said, "You shot the moose I was looking at? I thought it was legal too"
He and the other CO went into a room and left us alone for awhile. They came back and said, "We would love to just let you off with a warning but we can't. There is a standard fine that applies to your offence that we have to give you." They recommended that I go to court and fight the fine and the one CO even said we could use his report that he thought that it looked legal to him." Since we were 1500 km from home - not going to go back for a court hearing so I paid the fine. It was somewhere around $200 (forgot the exact amount). I got the fine and was told that if I get another offence for anything related to hunting within 2 years that I would lose my hunting license for 2 - 5 years.
The CO's actually seemed sorry for me and sent us on our way. THEN the next day, when we came back from the morning hunt, there was a note on our camper door saying the CO had been there and we need to call him immediately. We did and he said that he went over the case with his superior and was told that even though he understood our circumstances, the regulations state that you are only allowed to take one moose in a calendar year. (Under Accidental Illegal Harvest it says: "Immediately cancel your species licence and mark in ink on the species license page that your intention is to self report"). This note was not in the regs when I shot my illegal moose but the fact of only taking one moose per hunter per year was in effect. I cancelled my tag, packed up and went home.
What I've learned.
1. There are good and bad experiences with CO's. This was a good one. I also know of many bad encounters with over zealous CO's
2. If you self report an illegal act the CO does not have an option but to fine you. If he doesn't he is taking the law into his own hands (from reports on this thread it sounds like some have done this).
3. The severity of the charges will determine the fine. Self reporting will always be the cheapest way to go (unless you shoot, shovel and shut up).
4. You will lose your tag for that species for one year. ie shoot on Oct 1 and you can't buy a tag until Oct 1 of the following year. (At least that is what they wrote on my license)
5. There will be a 2 year probation before your record is cleared. Break any wild life or fire arms hunting laws in that period and be prepared to pay a fine plus lose your hunting privilege for a time.
6. Since I was the one that pulled the trigger, it was up to me to make the decision about self reporting. If it had been my partner that shot, it would be his decision and I would honour it. If I could not live with his decision then I would put another bullet in the downed animal and claim it as my own and do what I believed was the right thing to do. (you don't rat out a partner)
If it was my truck and my hunting partner shot a illegal moose in front of me, he's self reporting or else he's being left behind in the bush. Sounds cruel but hey if you don't like it, don't hunt with me. I am not going to loose my truck because my partner doesn't have the balls to do the right thing.
Jetboater
12-11-2010, 12:37 PM
I made the mistake a few years ago on a bull elk...went into invermere immediatly and self reported....didnt even think twice about it...got a 115.00 fine... cancelled my elk tag retrieved the bull and waited till the CO showed up that evening to retrieve the bull... he said it was going to families in need....he had dinner with us and really appreciated the honesty in what happened...Mistakes are made ... I was extremely remorseful to what happened and will never make that mistake again....
yesterday evening on the last day in region 3 we had a buck at 250yds that was about 26 inches wide and tall... we passed on it as we could not see the 4th point..... even though I was sure it was legal I had to make the decision to hold off and eat tag soup....
Jelvis
12-11-2010, 06:24 PM
boater you are a little confusing and not quite making sense in saying.
Quote .. even tho I was sure it was legal I had to hold off on a shot
I guess " I was sure, doesn't mean you were sure then? lol kinda doubting yourself then, double talk, explain please.
Jel .. I'm sure it was a legal four .. but I didn't shoot cuz I was not sure? lol.
LukaTisus
12-11-2010, 06:28 PM
I've seen some pretty enormous 3x3 mulies before. One bruiser I saw last year was real wide, long tines, heavy rack... perfect even 3x3 lol. I saw him every day I went into that area and no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't will him to grow that 4th point.
Wanted to go hunt that area and see if he was in there this year, but never got to. Spent most of my time focusing on moose to fill my LEH tag.
Edit: Lol what I was trying to say, however, was that the deer I mentioned could've easily been mistaken as a 4pt just considering his rack-size if anyone weren't to actually stop and get a good look at him, or take the time to actually count.
It all boils down to the importance of identifying and making 110% certain of what you're shooting, before that safety's off and the trigger's squeezed. If it gets away on you while you're working on a positive ID, then head back into the area the next day and set up shop, he's bound to pass through sooner or later. Especially if you don't spook 'em that badly.
Jelvis
12-11-2010, 06:32 PM
Good post Luka Tisus, sounds like you get out a lot, got to have that moose meat eh? lol I like moose meat the best.
Jelly ( Some huge mule deer bucks out there )
LukaTisus
12-11-2010, 06:49 PM
I get out lots, for sure. I love hunting. It's quality time with my Dad, I get to see lots of game every year and, to me, it's what I look forward to. :) LOL It's like September 1st hits and that's all I think about!
Been a few times my Dad's given me rag for letting trophy game walk, just because I was unsure it was legal or not. He's the one who taught me always to make sure, half the time he'll be the one to bark out if it's legal, but I won't pull until I know for sure, myself. Frustrates him every time.
Then there was the giant blackbear that got away on me a couple years ago. I saw him well before dad did, HUGE with a cinnamon coat, and the only reason I didn't drop him in his tracks was because he had turned, hoofin' it up a sidehill away from us and Dad thought he was a grizz. Of course, after that bear got up to the top and turned to look at us was when Dad realized he was a blackie, and by then he was over the ridge and gone.
Still, just 'cuz of that made me hesitate. I'd saw it from the side before it turned and ran, no sloped face, typical blackbear profile, but just the size of him and coat-color had Dad positive he was a grizz which had me wanting to make sure in case -I- had been wrong. Would've made for some tasty sausages and a hell of a rug had he stuck around on that ridge a second longer though. I'd love to run into that beast again, if he's still around.
Jelvis
12-11-2010, 06:54 PM
Luka your dad must be so proud of you for what you do hunting, keep up the good observations. Stick to your guns on being sure for yourself, it's a good quality to have.
Jel ( Observe well ) Be sure for your self .. good stuff.
CanuckShooter
12-11-2010, 08:04 PM
CS,
COs are trained Peace Officers and they know how to interigate. Just because the CO seemed like a dick to you doesn't mean he actually was a dick. You obviously didn't get charged so I'd say your story is not valid. Your BS fear mongering is still rampant and you keep throwing out extremes of lost hunting privilages, court time ect... which is NOT the case for me or you either. Just because the CO played the good cop, bad cop routine doesn't mean $hit. There is a cop here that when she pulls over a speeder comes up and starts waving her finger around and giving the driver a big lecture. If you encountered her on a drive through Clearwater you wouldn't ever forget it. So the next time you are speeding and you see flashing lights, do you make a run for it because you had so-called bad experience with a cop in Clearwater once? That is the logic you are giving people here. You had a CO play good cop, bad cop and you got your feelings hurt, so therefore in your mind it's better that hunters just walk away and hope no one ever saw them?
Seriously I take big issue with this attitude because 1, I've self reported and have seen things first hand ain't as bad as you are trying to make them out to be, and 2, I am FLIPPIN tired of finding dead 3 points in the bush left to rot because some jack-ass doesn't have the balls to live up to their mistakes.
And BTW have you ever met the COs in Clearwater. Lets just say the good cop bad cop routine is played quite often. That is their job. And they do it well. Matter of fact one of our CO's just was awarded CO of the year this year. Was a big write up in the local paper.
I don't know where the hell you got the idea that I thought that??? All I said was that I thought that the 'unknown' punishment was the biggest deterrent to people self reporting....and if they had a standard fine w/o the possibility of charges/judges/lawyers/court dates..that they would probably see more self reporting...and BTW that CO in Ft. St. John was a dick, a shyt head, a dummy, a simpleton, and a dipshyt, I'm entitled to hold my own opinions about him thank you.:evil:
Where I got that idea? Lets just look at your many many fear mongering posts where you constinately throw out statements like lost hunting privilages, court fees, huge fines blah blah blah. While you might be thinking you are having fun being the 'shitdisturber' on this thread, fact is you could possibly be causing a huge detriment because there are some hunters that just might believe your BullShit and will indeed walk away and leave a critter to rot. Can you not see that? I have seen countless dead 3 point muleys over the years that were left to rot by ball-less men who think of themselves as hunters. Heck some have even admitted to doing this within this thread all because they think they will go to jail and loose their guns and truck due to a mistake. You are just throwing the fuel on the fire for these guys, so yes, I can easily jump to the conclusion that you would rather see hunters walk away than do the right thing.
hunter1947
12-12-2010, 04:41 AM
There are lots of talk about finding 3 point illegal mule deer but what about 5x5 elk that have been shot and left to rot.
Over the past 10 years I have found 6 bulls that have been left out in the woods shot by mistake of antler point count.
I am sure they are not winter kills there would be to much snow at this time of the year for the elk to die there.
I wonder if this thread will promote people reporting themselves or walking away. Alone and stressed from a mistake I wonder what decision a person would really make?
Another point. You make a mistake. If you do the right thing and gut the animal before you report it and someone finds you gutting it. Who is going to believe you were goona report it. Second point. Leaving an animal to go make the phone call. If you are a long ways back who wants to do that. It might be a long u joint busting trip in and out. It would make more sense to take it with you to a phone. Again if you get caught while transporting the animal to the nearest phone who will believe you?? It is just not that simple?
CanuckShooter
12-12-2010, 07:54 AM
Where I got that idea? Lets just look at your many many fear mongering posts where you constinately throw out statements like lost hunting privilages, court fees, huge fines blah blah blah. While you might be thinking you are having fun being the 'shitdisturber' on this thread, fact is you could possibly be causing a huge detriment because there are some hunters that just might believe your BullShit and will indeed walk away and leave a critter to rot. Can you not see that? I have seen countless dead 3 point muleys over the years that were left to rot by ball-less men who think of themselves as hunters. Heck some have even admitted to doing this within this thread all because they think they will go to jail and loose their guns and truck due to a mistake. You are just throwing the fuel on the fire for these guys, so yes, I can easily jump to the conclusion that you would rather see hunters walk away than do the right thing.
Well that is where you are wrong.....I never once advocated for anyone to walk away. While I see where your coming from, talking about fears of being prosecuted etc, I don't think my mentioning it will subtract from this discussion. I think that it is a widely held belief that it is possible that you will be heavily prosecuted even if you self report..and that in my opinion is why we find so many 'illegal' animals left in the bush.
While some people take offense to me writing about what many think could happen if they report an offense, others write about what did happen to them.....neither position is a guarantee of what WILL happen in any given situation....
I stand on my position that if they defined the penalty for reporting an honest mistake, instead of leaving the door open, they would find more people self reporting.
Guys like me have told ya the REALITY of Self Reporting and yet you still continue to spew Bull$hit lies as you fear monger. So while you form your opinion because you got your feelings hurt by a CO once, you are then encouraging hunters that read this thread to walk away due to FEAR.
CanuckShooter
12-12-2010, 09:24 AM
Guys like me have told ya the REALITY of Self Reporting and yet you still continue to spew Bull$hit lies as you fear monger. So while you form your opinion because you got your feelings hurt by a CO once, you are then encouraging hunters that read this thread to walk away due to FEAR.
I guess your just too thick to understand what I am saying.....go ahead keep your head in the sand and then wonder why so many guys will not self report.....I guess it's not because they believe things will always go the way yours did, it's because of my fear mongering...some peoples kids.
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