View Full Version : Ravens & Blood trails
Does anyone else think that the hunting courses should teach more about tracking and follow up after a shot. I am tired of finding other peoples lost animals. The coureses dont teach how to tell if an animal is hit or not. Sometimes it is impossible to tell anyway. I think tracking and making a common practice of making sure you missed is lacking in this regard. I have heard to many excuses and once again I dislike finding animals dead or wounded. Any comments.
yamadirt 426
12-02-2010, 07:57 AM
They can teach all the tracking in the world to a bunch of newbies. Even bring in mantracker for an hr. But if your a lazy pos and dont want to track its useless. We went over it enough in my class i figure.
fozzy
12-02-2010, 08:15 AM
They can teach all the tracking in the world to a bunch of newbies. Even bring in mantracker for an hr. But if your a lazy pos and dont want to track its useless. We went over it enough in my class i figure.
Yes, lots of idiots are way too lazy! Often they take hail Mary shots, don't see an immediate reaction and get back in their truck and drive away. I don't know how many times I've heard " I took a poke at it". Dick heads!
Prowler
12-02-2010, 08:49 AM
Cant teach it... You learn it thru experience. I recently shot a buck, from about 30 yrds, and he hunched up, and started to tip over. I thought, "hes done" Well all of a sudden, he bolts down hill and out of site. 2 other guys with me said the same thing. "I would have said shoot again, but he looked done!" Anyway, we start to track in the fresh snow. Not a DROP of blood.... Buddy says, "I think you missed him!" "No EFFIN way!!" I said. We stayed on it, and eventualy found him piled up down a steep hill about 200 yrds away, and never a drop of blood. I know for sure a LOT of guys would have walked away and thought they missed. Its about gut instinct and stayin on it untill you are POSATIVE one way or the other...
Now realy, how many dead animals have you found out of curiosity? Because in almost 25 yrs in the bush, I have found 2. One the hunter showed up while I was there, and the other was a buddy of mine the day before and he was very thankfull I stumbled on it...
Slinky Pickle
12-02-2010, 09:22 AM
Cant teach it... You learn it thru experience.
Everything you know, you learned. Anything can be taught!
I would love to find a tracking course that is geared towards hunters. Most of the courses I've seen available were put on by "naturalists" and they didn't spend much time on techniques used to follow wounded game.
Prowler
12-02-2010, 09:47 AM
Everything you know, you learned. Anything can be taught!
Exactly, everything I know, I learned..... Nobody taught me how to track. I learned it myself. Im sure your right though. Maybe there is a course offered at VIU "Blood trailing 101":neutral:
Cant teach it... You learn it thru experience. I recently shot a buck, from about 30 yrds, and he hunched up, and started to tip over. I thought, "hes done" Well all of a sudden, he bolts down hill and out of site. 2 other guys with me said the same thing. "I would have said shoot again, but he looked done!" Anyway, we start to track in the fresh snow. Not a DROP of blood.... Buddy says, "I think you missed him!" "No EFFIN way!!" I said. We stayed on it, and eventualy found him piled up down a steep hill about 200 yrds away, and never a drop of blood. I know for sure a LOT of guys would have walked away and thought they missed. Its about gut instinct and stayin on it untill you are POSATIVE one way or the other...
Now realy, how many dead animals have you found out of curiosity? Because in almost 25 yrs in the bush, I have found 2. One the hunter showed up while I was there, and the other was a buddy of mine the day before and he was very thankfull I stumbled on it...
Sure. This fall I found 3 whitetail bucks, one five point bull elk. Probably left on purpose! One doe.
In the past 30 years I dont know how many. Certainly not the same amount as last year.
I also went out and found a deer a freind shot on the 29th of November. He didnt follow up after it crossed the river bleeding. I took him back in at first light with a canoe and we found him. The ravens are helpful. This happens more than a person thinks. If you see ravens something is going on!
whognu
12-02-2010, 10:37 AM
as much as i would like to beleive we as hunters all share the same level of respect and reverance towards the lives of the animals we kill to feed our families and freinds; it is obvious that some (many?) do not
far too many take the cavalier attitude "never up, never in"
taking shots that should never be taken; due to any number of reasons
-poor conditions
-distance
-animal movememt
-no talent
note to those.......next time you have the urge to take a 'hail mary' or shoot without adequate follow-up..........why not just take ball peen hammer to the family dog's back leg, stick a shiv in the ribs, leave her in the back yard and go away for the weekend
hunting is messy enough, even when done right
never found anyone's lost handiwork, yet tracked many for others that should never have been shot (at)
bridger
12-02-2010, 10:39 AM
taking good ethical shots and putting the bullet where it should go solves the tracking problem.
humbolt
12-02-2010, 11:45 AM
I am teaching my scent hound to recover wounded game. It is incredible to see him work. He finds anything you put him on. I was thinking to offer a recovery service but I think the people that leave when they have a wounded animal would not call anyways.
budismyhorse
12-02-2010, 12:57 PM
Cant teach it... You learn it thru experience. I recently shot a buck, from about 30 yrds, and he hunched up, and started to tip over. I thought, "hes done" Well all of a sudden, he bolts down hill and out of site. 2 other guys with me said the same thing. "I would have said shoot again, but he looked done!" Anyway, we start to track in the fresh snow. Not a DROP of blood.... Buddy says, "I think you missed him!" "No EFFIN way!!" I said. We stayed on it, and eventualy found him piled up down a steep hill about 200 yrds away, and never a drop of blood. I know for sure a LOT of guys would have walked away and thought they missed. Its about gut instinct and stayin on it untill you are POSATIVE one way or the other...
Now realy, how many dead animals have you found out of curiosity? Because in almost 25 yrs in the bush, I have found 2. One the hunter showed up while I was there, and the other was a buddy of mine the day before and he was very thankfull I stumbled on it...
Hey Prowler, not to hijack,
but, what was entry/exit wound like? caliber? Bullet and weight?
Prowler
12-02-2010, 02:20 PM
Hey Prowler, not to hijack,
but, what was entry/exit wound like? caliber? Bullet and weight?
280 Remington with 160 Gr Noslar partition. No exit wound. The shot was about 2 inches to far forward and clipped the right front shoulder, then in to the boiler room, leaving a hole the size of an orange and obliterating one rib.. My partners and I could not believe he never left any blood..
Lesson? Keep shooting till hes on the ground!:) Could have saved ourselves a tough drag back up the hill....
gwillim
12-02-2010, 05:43 PM
First deer I ever shot was from about 30-40 meters, with a 45/70. after I shot the thing took off like a rocket through the trees, and I was left thinking "how could I have missed?" I did have the presence of mind to listen carefully to it as it bounded down the hill, and after a few minutes slowly followed. There it was about 50 meters down the hill piled up against a log. Lesson for new hunters, a deer with a big piece of lead through both lungs can keep going full tilt until the last bit of oxygen in it's blood stream is used up!
hunter1947
12-03-2010, 05:39 AM
I would want more taught about gun safety then any other thing ,many of times I have caught someone not controlling there muzzle direction ,this is more important then any other.
StoneChaser
12-03-2010, 09:18 AM
Shot placement and selection go a long ways in minimizing long blood trails and tracking jobs.
The classic " Knocked a great buck down today, but couldn't find him (running shot).....oh well, everybody will wound eventually".
One "prominent" member on here missed a running shot at a ram this year and wounded a running whitetail........slow learner?
Critters deserve more respect than hail mary shots....either practice or wait until they stop is my advice!
sawmill
12-03-2010, 09:55 AM
Shot placement and selection go a long ways in minimizing long blood trails and tracking jobs.
The classic " Knocked a great buck down today, but couldn't find him (running shot).....oh well, everybody will wound eventually".
One "prominent" member on here missed a running shot at a ram this year and wounded a running whitetail........slow learner?
Critters deserve more respect than hail mary shots....either practice or wait until they stop is my advice!
Too true.I had to pass on a friggen BEAST non-typical elk because all I had was an ass shot at 100 yards as he trotted away.Lots of days I think I should have gone for it................:icon_frowBut I didn`t.But if I had.............?But I didn`t........Wish I had.....NO NO NO STOP IT .
Still bugs me.Obviously.
Kody94
12-03-2010, 10:04 AM
Now realy, how many dead animals have you found out of curiosity? Because in almost 25 yrs in the bush, I have found 2. One the hunter showed up while I was there, and the other was a buddy of mine the day before and he was very thankfull I stumbled on it...
I have found literally dozens. No joke. I don't know for sure how many were shot and left, or wounded and not found...but definitely quite a few of them.
I have found literally dozens. No joke. I don't know for sure how many were shot and left, or wounded and not found...but definitely quite a few of them.
Glad to get this feed back Kody94. One member mentioned in his 20 years he has only found two. I find or hear about two every year. Not to mention bears. Every couple years somone shoots a grizzly in the fall and leaves it. There is no fall season for Grizz here. I guess they just shoot and drive away.
I can count how many I have found when watching ravens.
knighthunter
12-03-2010, 10:13 AM
I've lung and heart shot deer that didn't show any sign of a hit and if they did it was lost to me in the recoil of my rifle. New hunter's or someone with not much expirence might have walked away. But with all my years of hunting, shooting and killing, I always follow the critter, and more often than not, I'll find it dead, sometimes 100 yds away. You would be suprised how far they can go with their heart looking like a ball of hamburger.
As far as teaching it in the CORE, it could be mentioned but firearm safety is more important, I believe.
Phreddy
12-03-2010, 12:32 PM
Too true.I had to pass on a friggen BEAST non-typical elk because all I had was an ass shot at 100 yards as he trotted away.Lots of days I think I should have gone for it................:icon_frowBut I didn`t.But if I had.............?But I didn`t........Wish I had.....NO NO NO STOP IT .
Still bugs me.Obviously.
It's called a Texas heart shot.
CanuckShooter
03-05-2011, 05:29 PM
Too true.I had to pass on a friggen BEAST non-typical elk because all I had was an ass shot at 100 yards as he trotted away.Lots of days I think I should have gone for it................:icon_frowBut I didn`t.But if I had.............?But I didn`t........Wish I had.....NO NO NO STOP IT .
Still bugs me.Obviously.
You should have gone for it.......:mrgreen:just buggin':-D
fearnodeer
03-06-2011, 07:39 AM
Have found several animals over the years, prior to hunting i watched several vidio's on hunting and found bow hunting vidio's the best for learning how to track because they never go down instantly.
CanuckShooter
03-06-2011, 08:05 AM
The smartest thing you can do if your faced with tracking down a wounded animal, and your not confident in your ability, is to enlist the aid of an experienced tracker.....most guys are more than willing to give of their time to help you find an animal...I've helped out more than a few times, and learned many years ago when older guys showed me the ropes....:-D
cariboo crawler
03-06-2011, 09:14 AM
Cant teach it... You learn it thru experience. I recently shot a buck, from about 30 yrds, and he hunched up, and started to tip over. I thought, "hes done" Well all of a sudden, he bolts down hill and out of site. 2 other guys with me said the same thing. "I would have said shoot again, but he looked done!" Anyway, we start to track in the fresh snow. Not a DROP of blood.... Buddy says, "I think you missed him!" "No EFFIN way!!" I said. We stayed on it, and eventualy found him piled up down a steep hill about 200 yrds away, and never a drop of blood. I know for sure a LOT of guys would have walked away and thought they missed. Its about gut instinct and stayin on it untill you are POSATIVE one way or the other...
Now realy, how many dead animals have you found out of curiosity? Because in almost 25 yrs in the bush, I have found 2. One the hunter showed up while I was there, and the other was a buddy of mine the day before and he was very thankfull I stumbled on it...
Interested in where the bullet hit him.
Trapper D
03-06-2011, 09:27 AM
Tom Browns Field Guide to Nature Observation and Tracking, is a very good book on tracking animals and determining there condition etc. This guys the real mantracker. He has written 7 or 8 books on the outdoors.
moose2
03-06-2011, 10:24 AM
I learned something neat a few years ago on a late season elk hunt. My buddy and I split up and were walking the tree lines on a huge aspen clearcut. About a hour and a half later I heard a shot where my buddy had went. I hunted for a bit and then decided to go back to see if it was him. It took me 2 hours to get to where I figured the shot was , I could not see anything. Then boom a shot rang out a couple hundred yards from me in the mature aspens. I went in to find my buddy with a nice 5x5 bull. This is what he told me had happened. He said a bull elk was crossing the clearcut so he worked his way to the tree line to set up for the shot. He was able to shoot at 250 yards about 50 yards before the bull made the tree line. He said the bull bucked and the sprinted into the trees. He said he looked for blood for a hour "nothing" he decided to sit on a stump and wait for me to help when I got back. He said with in about 30 minutes he could hear a couple ravens in the timber then a few minutes went by he could hear more so in he went towards the noise. Sure enough when he got to the ravens he found his bull still alive but down. That was the second shot I had heard. All the leaves were off ( OCT 25 ) so this helped the birds find it . It took about 2 hours after the first shot for this to happen. This is something I will always remember for the late hunts in the peace area. The bull was hit a bit far forward and nethier of us saw any blood until the elk was found.
Mike
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Todds_5x5_elk_003_Medium_.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=22910&size=big&cat=500)
I've done this with my kid's camping just for $hits........find a track and make them stay on it, great for polishing up your tracking skills and you learn abit about deer behavior in the process.
win,win...:wink:
doubled
03-06-2011, 12:37 PM
I have tracked a few animals over the years and most were not mine. Found numerous dead animals during hunting season and shed season - some I am sure died of natural causes and others well....
I have never had a hard time tracking. For me, it is about taking your time. Go very slow, inches at a time if need be. There may not be blood, but there is ALWAYS a trail - trampled or bent grass, broken twigs, indentations in the frost, snow tracks, pieces of hair/bone/fat. Once you "think" you have lost the trail - mark the last know spot and fan out in ten yard directions. This takes a while but usually end up finding your target.
I tracked a buddy's 4 pt muley for four hours and over 3.5 kms away from the shot one early fall morning (no snow) and found him less than ten yards away bedded under a small evergreen watching me walk by. This was by far the hardest track I had ever been on as there was very little blood - we found more bone fragments than blood sometimes over 100 yards from each other.
One big thing to remeber too is that when something is wounded, they will generally go for the easiet path, avoid hills, etc so you can focus your search on certain areas where it makes sense to escape from.
IronNoggin
03-06-2011, 02:29 PM
I am teaching my scent hound to recover wounded game. It is incredible to see him work. He finds anything you put him on.
Even the "best" hunters will occasionally have game run after the hit. And they can cover a considerable distance even with their heart in tatters as previously noted. It is incumbent on us all to follow up each and every time we take that shot, it is called Responsibility, and we owe that to the animal and our sport.
We always have a Blood Tracker on hand when guiding over in Alberta. Those dogs have recovered a fair amount of game over the years, and many were in situations where standard tracking simply would not have proven effective. Worth more than their weight in gold is a good one!
I am training my latest Wolf Hybrid for exactly that purpose. He is showing Great Promise, stays HARD on the trail, and is extremely determined in his mission when doing so. While perhaps not for everyone, these Trackers are an extremely valuable asset in this regard, and I, for one, will never be without one.
Cheers,
Nog
Caribou_lou
03-06-2011, 03:16 PM
taking good ethical shots and putting the bullet where it should go solves the tracking problem.
This is what needs to be taught before you start thinking about teaching new hunters how to track.
Caribou_lou
03-06-2011, 03:23 PM
It's called a Texas heart shot.
Its called an unethical shot.
I think he made the right choice about not shooting. He would feel much worse about the experience today it if he had taken the shot and wounded the Elk.
I for one have too much respect for and animal to shoot it in the ass.
Phreddy
03-07-2011, 11:18 PM
My point exactly.
KodiakHntr
03-08-2011, 08:42 AM
Its called an unethical shot.
I think he made the right choice about not shooting. He would feel much worse about the experience today it if he had taken the shot and wounded the Elk.
I for one have too much respect for and animal to shoot it in the ass.
Ethics....Here we go again. About the only way ethics comes into play is if you are gut shooting animals on purpose so they stumble closer to the road so you don't have to drag them as far, or you are shooting them in the legs so you can shoot at them more.
And as to the "respect" argument, at what point are you showing "respect" to an animal when you drive a high speed projectile into its body and taking its life?
It always makes me wonder about guys who are willing to take a shot from one direction, but not the other. If you are using a cartridge/bullet combination that is capable of getting a bullet to where its supposed to there is no reason to NOT take the shot.
I have zero compunctions about taking a hard quartering away shot or straightaway, or a head on or quartering in shot. IF I know that I can place a bullet where it needs to go. If I can't put it where it needs to go, I'm not going to take the shot regardless of the angle, broadside, quartering in, quartering away, etc.
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