E-Collar

[Rackaholic]

Hey guys, I need some advice on what e-collar i should get for my dog.

So he's a Lab-German Shepherd Mix (dominantly Lab) and is about 1 year old. Most of his life he spent tied up on a tree or post because we're in the process of building our house which means the gate has to always be open, and we dont want him to run away so he has been tied up way too much, and now has very little respect for anyone/anything and has WAYY too much energy.

He knows "sit" "shake paw" "lie down" and sometimes "let go", but only when he's tied up.. When hes free he wont listen at all.

I want to start with basic obedience but later on maybe also retrieving, so what kind of a collar would be best for him?

Thanks

[digger dogger]

Look in the search and type in E-Collar, quite a bit comes up!

My vote is still dogtra! :-)

[Rob]

You may want to start working on the "here" command, if your worried about your dog bolting. Ive got a Tri tronics collar but my new lab is only 4.5 mos. I would start looking for a good training program on how to use the collar. Also the dog needs to know the command first before using the collar. Rob

[Rob]

As far as the collar goes if your going to be playing in water, make sure its water proof. Also it should have a "nick" for quick corrections.

[Buck]

I use a Tritronics G3 sport model it has been a very reliable, long battery life no complaints at all.Order from the states for a good deal.Cabellas or Gundogsupply

http://www.tritronics.com/sport-basic-g3-exp.html

[LOC]

I like sportdog myself, but have heard good things tritronics too.

These guys: ht tp://www.canadiangundogsupply.com/home.php (http://www.canadiangundogsupply.com/home.php) are a great supplier of gear based in Canada.

[Stresd]

Bought the Sport Dog 400s over a year ago from Gundogsupply. Has been excellent. Couldn't be happier with the overall operation and performance of the unit. Would give it a ten out of ten as Meeka has been unable to break or even waterout the receiver.

[416]

You may want to start working on the "here" command, if your worried about your dog bolting. Ive got a Tri tronics collar but my new lab is only 4.5 mos. I would start looking for a good training program on how to use the collar. Also the dog needs to know the command first before using the collar. Rob


X2. I wouldn't consider any e collar for obedience training. The e collar is great for enforcing your commands in the field and corrections, but both instances require the dog KNOWS what is expected of them. Mis-use is a good way to ruin a dog.
Another vote for tri-tronics when and if you feel you need an e collar, good product and 1st class service if required.

[Rackaholic]

Thanks all for the help, I will most likely order one from that site.


X2. I wouldn't consider any e collar for obedience training. The e collar is great for enforcing your commands in the field and corrections, but both instances require the dog KNOWS what is expected of them. Mis-use is a good way to ruin a dog.
Another vote for tri-tronics when and if you feel you need an e collar, good product and 1st class service if required.

Oh trust me he knows.. When hes on the chain he does what you tell him because he cant do anything else, but when he's free there is so much other stuff he can do and as long as he's free, nothing will stop him.. That's where the eCollar comes in :mrgreen:

[ruger#1]

Thanks all for the help, I will most likely order one from that site.



Oh trust me he knows.. When hes on the chain he does what you tell him because he cant do anything else, but when he's free there is so much other stuff he can do and as long as he's free, nothing will stop him.. That's where the eCollar comes in :mrgreen:They also get smart when not wearing the collar. You almost need a dummy collar. I have a Tri Tronics that controls two GSP's.

[dutchie]

I have the tritronics Pro 500... I think that it is alot more then anyone needs but I was able to get one for VERY VERY cheep so I did! Pro 100 or 200 are they way I would go.

Before you get a e-collar for him, you need to get him some freedom. He has been "not trusted" for a full year.

You need to get him off off the lead and give him freedom. this is going to develop alot of trust between the 2 of you and then start working on obedience that way FIRST!.

If he has way too much energy then get him out for a GOOD run everyday. I take my DK out 2 times a day for about 45 mins and just run the shit out of him so he is not wired.

The reason a dog will run away is because they want the freedom, and that is the only way they will get it becasue they are away from you.


Dutchie

[J-F]

We first had a Sport Dog collar, but it died after maybe 10 months. We later got a Dogtra and we are still very happy with it after more than 3 years. We use it everyday, twice a day, for over one hour and it still works as new. It keeps its charge well, and within its working rance it has performed flawlessly.

The service we got from that merchant has also been excellent and I have no problems recommending them to anyone. The man was also very easy to talk to and seemed more concerned with giving a good service than selling the biggest collar at all cost.

These collar have been great for us and our dog. We had her (French Spaniel = energy +++) at the age of three, housebroken but hardly trained for any obedience. Walking her on leash was (and still is) equivalent to an arm-lenghtening session... and off-leash meant a long run after her to bring her back home. Now she walks/runs/sniffs around at her own pace, not fighting with us all the time, she's not frustrated from lack of exercice and freedom, and she listens very very well even without the collar.

Some dogs become collar smart. Maybe, then don't leave home without it!

[Kasomor]

We first had a Sport Dog collar, but it died after maybe 10 months. We later got a Dogtra, and we are still very happy with it after more than 3 years. We use it everyday, twice a day, for over one hour and it still works as new. It keeps its charge well, and within its working rance it has performed flawlessly.

The service we got from that merchant has also been excellent and I have no problems recommending them to anyone. The man was also very easy to talk to and seemed more concerned with giving a good service than selling the biggest collar at all cost.

These collar have been great for us and our dog. We had her (French Spaniel = energy +++) at the age of three, housebroken but hardly trained for any obedience. Walking her on leash was (and still is) equivalent to an arm-lenghtening session... and off-leash meant a long run after her to bring her back home. Now she walks/runs/sniffs around at her own pace, not fighting with us all the time, she's not frustrated from lack of exercice and freedom, and she listens very very well even without the collar.

Some dogs become collar smart. Maybe, then don't leave home without it!

Sorry..thread stealing :mrgreen: for a moment...can you post a picture of your French Spaniel please?? Don't think I've ever seen one before :-D:-D :-D

O.K....O.K.... back to your regular scheduled thread. :wink:

Dogtra collars fit my needs but you can't go wrong with Tritronics either.

BUT that dog needs to get off the chain on a regular basis and learn basic obedience while under control, on a leash and then on a long line, so you KNOW for a fact that he KNOWS the commands before you ever put an ecollar on him. Then get either the Lardy or Graham E-collar conditioning DVD and watch it BEFORE hand...multiple times...if you don't have anyone competent to teach you how to use a collar.

I think dogs take off and run away because they don't know their owners are the greatest thing since sliced bread. You got to make yourself the greatest thing in the world to your dog. All work and no play makes for a dog that don't want to be with you.....too many of our retreivers WORK is Play.......and then balance that with obedience.

Good luck,

Kasomor

[Ben Fougere]

All great comments here on the e-collar. I'm fairly new to using our e-collar and I have to say that it is doing its job. We picked up a tri-tronics e-collar this summer and it was the biggest help.

The most important thing to remember, is to only use it for commands your dog already knows. Also, do a lot of reading and research as to the collar that fits your needs.

[Retrievers]

I've only ever used Tri-Tronics. Great company, great product. I have used the same brand since they first came out.
I suggest you find someone who is experienced with using them in obedience work. You can't just put it on a dog and start pushing buttons. The dog needs to know why he is getting pressure, and needs to understand how to shut it off.
Let me know if you want help.

[bopper]

Linda is right on both comments.....you can't go wrong with Tri-tronics...I used their collars for over 30 years, my last Pro 500 was used daily for over 5 years without a failure.
Also right about getting experienced help when starting to use the collar. I've seen a lot of harm done to dogs through improper collar usage.
Good luck!

[GotSpringer]

You are getting alot of good advise, I've had a few Field Springer Spaniels and if kept tied up or confined alot of the time, they would certainly bolt and refrain from the come command. It is very upsetting to have a dog that won't come back on a recall command

I would suggest not to use a E-Collar first, it is really unfair since he has been denied freedom.

I would start off with a 6" lead & long lead (50ft) and walk and build some trust first. Lots of walks and outings, will build this for both of you.

Then work towards off leash in a tennis court and use the come command.
There will be some good recalls and some poor, You will need to graduate to all recalls with distractions etc...

Communication with dogs requires 2 of the 3 types to be effectve,
Sight, Sound and Touch. Sight is the dog looking at you,
Sound is Voice, beeper from collar or whistle, Touch is leash, e-collar or hand ( I don't mean abusive)

E-Collars are an easy fix and or correction, however there are ways to properly use them, Most people start off light with e-collars and graduate stronger, however this is not accurate. This builds tolerance to the collar, Used properly start off stronger and work towards less.

Dogtra Collars also have a beeper which can be used (sound) as a warning. Be careful Beeping warnings with out a correction will be poor.

I hope this helps you, once you have your dog off leash it is such a great feeling.

[bopper]

[quote=kept tied up or confined alot of the time, use a E-Collar first, it is
I would start off with a 6" lead & long lead (50ft) and walk and build some trust first. Lots of walks and outings, will build this for both of you.

Then work towards off leash in a tennis court and use the come command.
There will be some good recalls and some poor, You will need to graduate to all recalls with distractions etc...

Communication with dogs requires 2 of the 3 types to be effectve,
Sight, Sound and Touch. Sight is the dog looking at you,
Sound is Voice, beeper from collar or whistle, Touch is leash, e-collar or hand ( I don't mean abusive)

E-Collars are an easy fix and or correction, however there are ways to properly use them, Most people start off light with e-collars and graduate stronger, however this is not accurate. This builds tolerance to the collar, Used properly start off stronger and work towards less.

Dogtra Collars also have a beeper which can be used (sound) as a warning. Be careful Beeping warnings with out a correction will be poor.

I hope this helps you, once you have your dog off leash it is such a great feeling.[/quote]

I can't believe that anyone wouldubmit this type of 'advice'......."Tied up or confined a lot of the time"??? Why would anyone subject a dog to this?
"Work towards off leash in a tennis court and use the come command"???? You should never give a command that you're not in a position to enforce.
"Start off stronger and work towards less'??? Almost a sure-fire way to terrify a dog and get a dog that resents the collar.
Please don't try to give advice until you have sufficient experience and have trained a great number of dogs to achieve greatness in competition or in the field.

[Ben Fougere]

I will agree with bopper that gotspringer's advice is harsh and should NOT be practiced on any dog, but I have to disagree when you (bopper) say "don't try to give advice until you have sufficient experience and have trained a great number of dogs to achieve greatness in competition or in the field."

I tried to get as much help as I could with an e-collar here in Quesnel. There simply aren't many people here that use them, or at least I haven't met any. I don't see why a person needs to have trained a "great" number of dogs to give advice. No offense bopper, but I did as much research as I could and came to huntingbc for advice and with all that experience, along with working with Kingston I don't see why an amateur can't pass on some information. Isn't that what this is all about....information?

I would have to say that for the inexperienced person, check out the tri-tronics website. They have a great book that is dedicated to training your retriever with their e-collars.

[GotSpringer]

I'm not sure if I'm being misquoted and or misunderstood? I was not stating I kept my dog(s) tied up or confined, This was was the comments of the original posting, not mine ??

Using a leash, then check line & then graduated to off leash in a tennis court to teach the recall command, (small, big, bigger) is very effective.

Being on leash or in a tennis court enables me to enforce the command ???
Not sure what is harsh?

As far as the e-collar, not sure what you read?, I did not say start at 100% ,
i said graduate down in strength, the object is to reduce sensitivity not graduate to more.

My suggestions were to offer support to a fellow dog trainer, I hope this is more clear,

Nothing is better then spending time training your dog, except hunting with your dog!

[Lots'oLabs]

I will agree with bopper that gotspringer's advice is harsh and should NOT be practiced on any dog, but I have to disagree when you (bopper) say "don't try to give advice until you have sufficient experience and have trained a great number of dogs to achieve greatness in competition or in the field."

I tried to get as much help as I could with an e-collar here in Quesnel. There simply aren't many people here that use them, or at least I haven't met any. I don't see why a person needs to have trained a "great" number of dogs to give advice. No offense bopper, but I did as much research as I could and came to huntingbc for advice and with all that experience, along with working with Kingston I don't see why an amateur can't pass on some information. Isn't that what this is all about....information?

I would have to say that for the inexperienced person, check out the tri-tronics website. They have a great book that is dedicated to training your retriever with their e-collars.
Wiley, I don't think that Boppers comment is far off course.
The deal with e collars is that if even one bad correction is made it can be a major set back to a training plan. Sometimes one bad training day with poorly timed corrections can have lasting complications that can NEVER be repaired.
I don't think he meant to denegrate an amateur trainer. He was making a realistic comment.

Now, having said that, I believe it's true that it's hard to find experienced trainers, especially in smaller communities.
That's why those of us who train competitively always reccomend taking time to attend an training seminar or go to a pro trainer.
On this website Bopper has offered to provide seminars on several occaisions for the mere cost of covering his expenses.
Kasomor has a thread for a seminar to be held in the spring.
There is also the Prince George Retriever Club with some competitive trainers. They would be a good resource.
Also Retrievers (Linda) has offered assistance. She has certainly CC'd a lot of dogs in her time.

Tritronics products are costly. If you are spending that kind of money it makes sense to me to take the time and additional expense to learn to use it correctly. I couldn't imagine learning how to use it by reading advice, books or relying upon watching a video.

Deb

[Lots'oLabs]

I'm not sure if I'm being misquoted and or misunderstood? I was not stating I kept my dog(s) tied up or confined, This was was the comments of the original posting, not mine ??

Using a leash, then check line & then graduated to off leash in a tennis court to teach the recall command, (small, big, bigger) is very effective.

Being on leash or in a tennis court enables me to enforce the command ???
Not sure what is harsh?

As far as the e-collar, not sure what you read?, I did not say start at 100% ,
i said graduate down in strength, the object is to reduce sensitivity not graduate to more.

My suggestions were to offer support to a fellow dog trainer, I hope this is more clear,

Nothing is better then spending time training your dog, except hunting with your dog!

Gotspringer, if you were offering sound advice, I would agree with you that support is a good thing.
In this case, your training methods are questionable.
Are you saying that you are using an e collar within a confined area like a tennis court?
Why? Are you afraid your dog may bolt?
IF you think he may bolt, then you are using WAY too much pressure.
The confined part is harsh.

Everything I do is off leash and not confined.

Plus the rule of effective e collar training is start with lower pressure. The dog has to 1st learn to understand pressure and how to turn it off. He learns to turn off pressure by doing the right thing (demonstrating the behavior he is being taught).
If after continued training and conditioning if he demonstrates undesired behavior, only then is it justifiable to turn up the pressure. This is a lengthly process.

This is hugley simplified and entails much more, but it just shows how detailed collar conditioning can be.

I can't stress it enough. It's best left for the experienced amateur trainers or pros, or learned in a seminar type of setting.
Deb

[labguy]

I'ts very easy to ask for and receive dog training advice on forums like this.
Filtering the good advice from the bad is the big challenge unless you know the source.

The problem with most dog people (including myself) is that once we've had a bit of success with one or more dogs, we tend to become kind of a "know it all." We then think we can dispense advice on a forum like this, without a thorough background of the dog, the trainer or what is trying to be achieved with the question. It's done for the very best reasons (trying to help someone out) but many times fails dismally in the results.

I know of no one on this site that I'd sooner take advice from than Bopper. He's trained, or been a part in the training, of some of the best competative Retrievers that Canada has produced. His 30 plus years as a professional retreiver trainer and the many years training his own hunting dogs before becoming a pro, has given him a range of experience and knowlege that is hard to duplicate.

Internet advice on how to train a dog will probably produce very poor results and in some cases disasterous ones. What works for one dog will not necessarily work with another one and therein lies the danger of asking for, and receiving advice. You don't know where it is coming from and what background the advice is based on.

I think you'll find that people like Bopper won't give training advice on the internet. It's because it could be misread, misinterpreted or even invalid unless he could actually see and work with the particular dog or person.

:icon_frowSomething to think about when asking for or giving dog training advice on forums like this.

[GotSpringer]

Please read my original post.
This is comical, I'm replying to alot of what i did not say.

I did not expect what I said could be misread or misinterpreted,
I'm new to forums.

To quote,
I suggested NOT to use a E-Collar first, as it was really unfair to the dog
since he has been denied freedom.

to clarify:
I do NOT use a e-collar in a tennis court, (Wow unbeleivable to think someone could do that ?)

I have used a leash, or check line in a tennis court to teach recall.
I'm still not sure why this is harsh ? Its a beginning to off leash recall.

My intentions were to help the originator with tools before introducing
an E-Collar, not to offend anyones training or style.

I trust the originator of this forum will seek information from the manufactures, Dogtra is my personal vote,
(but I do like how the Tritronics works also with Bird Launchers) -

Good training and Hunting to all !

[labguy]

Please read my original post.
This is comical, I'm replying to alot of what i did not say.

I did not expect what I said could be misread or misinterpreted,
I'm new to forums.

To quote,
I suggested NOT to use a E-Collar first, as it was really unfair to the dog
since he has been denied freedom.

to clarify:
I do NOT use a e-collar in a tennis court, (Wow unbeleivable to think someone could do that ?)

I have used a leash, or check line in a tennis court to teach recall.
I'm still not sure why this is harsh ? Its a beginning to off leash recall.

My intentions were to help the originator with tools before introducing
an E-Collar, not to offend anyones training or style.

I trust the originator of this forum will seek information from the manufactures, Dogtra is my personal vote,
(but I do like how the Tritronics works also with Bird Launchers) -

Good training and Hunting to all !

Welcome to HBC. You received a fairly rough intorudction to it.:icon_frow I guess you know by now that this (anything to do with dog training ) is a contentious issue for many of us.:-D

I think all the confusion with these last few posts, re-enforces why internet advice for dog training is not such a good idea.:confused:

A person could either misread, or misinterpret a response or the question could be midunderstood completely by the responder.

There is no better way to learn about dog training than to spend some time with someone who has been successful training these animals.

The upcoming e-collar workshop would be a great place to start for anyone who is TRULY and sincerely interested.

Anne knows her stuff and is a very good communicator. For those that are interested, if your open to learning something you will. If you're not .... then you can always ask for more internet advice and go with that. :wink:

Good luck either way...............

[colin46n]

I saw one for sale in this bbuy \& sell in in BC hunting