Bear skinning and hide prep in the field

[Andreas]

So I was calling around today for information/pricing to get my first bear rug made and one place in the lower mainland (who shall remain nameless) after a few basic questions on the condition of the hide etc proceeded to lecture me and criticize how I handled the hide.

I would like to establish that this was my very first animal and first bear, and simply went according to the advice and direction of those in my hunting party. Early in the conversation I had mentioned that this was my first bear etc. and explained that it was skinned immediately after being shot (to the best of my ability after dark in low light conditions using a head mounted flashlight), then salted that night and again the next day. I did not skin the head or remove the feet from the paws simply because I have no experience with that and did not want to screw it up (but tried to get as much salt in there as possible). It was pretty cold where we were and the hide was in ambient cool temperatures until we got home three days later and immediately put it in the freezer.

I was lectured rather condescendingly on the phone by this taxidermist's receptionist or wife criticizing how I went about handling the hide and that I should have frozen it right away if I couldn't skin the head and remove the feet etc. and that three days is too long to wait having it out in the bush blah blah blah. I was just surprised how they would treat a potential customer who shopping around for a place to spend over $1000 to get his first rug done. I was very polite and thanked her for the info etc. but simply by that experience I will not be taking my hide there. I realize that I am a beginner in all of this and if I made a mistake in my handling of the hide then I would really like to learn from this experience so as to "do it right" next time, but I would hope that someone experienced would offer coaching/advice instead of insulting my first attempt and learning experience.

So I guess what I'm looking for from you experienced hunters out there is a few words of wisdom/advice and perhaps to share your experiences with a newbie like me.

-Can anyone comment on their previous 'first experience' and offer advice or thoughts on how to handle and prep the bear hide in the field etc?

-Any thoughts on the negative phone call experience?

Any comments or info is greatly appreciated. Thanks very much!:)

[bc_buckshot]

I think you did fine. Do what you can and if you don't know how then leave it for the taxi.you might pay extra but its better than a big hole in it.If your in the bush for couple days and can't drop it off then use salt,snow, cold weather or even a creek.what ever you can to keep it cool.I just learned how do the paws and head.if you need any help PM me

[Steeleco]

If your able to freeze your hide PDQ, you should not use salt. It lowers the freezing point and will make freezing it less effective. When you freeze a hide you should fold it fur on fur with the head on top. It takes longer to thaw and needs to be exposed longer.

That said, you should go talk to a GOOD taxi like Ray Wiens (site sponsor AKA Mainland hunter) and get him to tell you how he likes it. If you make his job easier, you'll end up with a better product.

[swampthing]

You did fine. I have had "the lecture" from taxidermists as well. Get some info from someone in the know and do some more knife work on the next one. Its more intimidating than tough. The last lecture I got was that I did pretty good, and got a thanks from the taxidermist. Have fun.

[pearljam]

Putting salt on a hide that hasn't been properly fleshed and still has a head and paws in it is a big no no. Its more then cold enough out (ass. you just shot it in the last couple weeks??) that the hide would be fine if you just left it out to freeze. If the salt even penitrated the fat/flesh still on the hide a taxidermist may have to re-hydrate the hide to be able to skin the rest out. Plus salt may not allow the hide to freeze now..



Order "wilderness taxidermy" http://www.pristineventures.com/products/dvd-library.html

It is a great DVD series from a taxidermist on how to skin/flesh/salt/dry a hide. You will learn everything you need to know from these videos.

They are a good company to deal with as well..

[Slee]

Not a great way to win business but I can understand there frustration recieving hides not taken care of properly. A lot of hunters dont take the time to learn how to cape/flesh hides properly and expect taxi's to preform miracles on poor hides.


Now spill the beans, what taxi was it???????????????????????????????????

[Gateholio]

The next time you shoot a bear, are you going to heed the womans advice and skin the head and paws out within a few hours and get it into salt or get it in the freezer ASAP?

If the answer is YES, then I think you learned a lesson.

Taxidermists dont' like to work with hides that has hair slipping off. Makes for a poor finished product.

[JCVD]

Pfft I would have given you hell as well. Its like people doing monkey work on their house and then hiring a contractor to fix it. Professionals want their work to look professional, not like they fixed someones crappy job. Think of yourself like an apprentice to a master...learn your lesson and do a better job next time and the next time until they are happy with your work. I would imagine you would get a better rate on what you take in as well.

[srupp]

every successful bear hunter had his first experience skinning his bear..

that being said some study and prep PRIOR to heading out would hav ebeen prudent..just in case you were successful...

Even the basic cuts if not done correctly would adversaly affect the out come...some basic instruction would have been wise..

That being said on the first bear or tremendous bear do the basic cuts seperating the hide with all 4 paws cut off at the wrists and the head left in and getting it FROZEN without salt ASAP..

Once familliar with the process one can start with skinning the head and paws..

done hundreds and still learning..

Steven

[trigger]

I can't agree with the way they might have handled the call,
but,
I see alot of pictures and here alot of stories of just absolute messes when it comes to skinning, gutting, and handling the animal after the kill. I think that there should be more focus on educating new hunters when they take their hunting lisence, on handling game after the kill. Remember the work just starts after the animal is dead. its not just kick back and have a beer time.
It takes patience. hard work, and pride in your work. You are putting these animals on your table. The cleaner the better. hides, well if you want it on the wall its no different.

Just my two cents

[Andreas]

First of all, thank you everyone for the honest replies. For those who recognized that I did the best I could on my first one thank you... for those who offered advice thank you as well... I absolutely realize that I am a newbie, and I will take your advice seriously and try to apply them next time and learn from my experience. We all have to start somewhere and hopefully we continually strive to improve ourselves as ethical and responsible hunters.

I do want to clarify a few things about exactly what I did and the situation: I actually did do some 'research'/prep before heading on how to do the skinning (ie. the pattern and technique) and was prepared to do exactly what I did (the idea of skinning the head and removing the feet seemed way beyond my level of skill) so I decided to leave that to the expertise of the taxidermist I choose to do the rug. While skinning I tried MY best to get rid of/keep off as much fat and other tissue as possible. I also cut off the feet at the ankles. Keeping in mind that the bear was shot Thanksgiving day in the Christian Valley. Nighttime temperatures were cool, but with the sun out during the day I was quite nervous about leaving the hide without salt (because I knew we wouldn't be heading home for a few days) temperatures were fluctuating between approx. +15 during the day and -5 at night. This is why I salted the hide worried that not salting it would facilitate the spoilage/wasting of the hide. My apologies if I was a bit misleading when describing the ambient temperature conditions in my original post. Also, the way I described my handling/work on the hide is exactly how I described it over the phone.

Gatehouse; JCVD; trigger: I absolutely understand the potential frustration experienced by taxidermists when presented with a poorly skinned or prepped hide. It most likely ends up being more work to 'fix' mistakes made by the hunter. And in the case of fur slipping out will obviously affect the overall quality of the final product. But please do not pass judgement on my skinning attempt without having seen pictures or the actual hide. I did not simply gut it, skin it as fast and half-assed as possible so as to kick back and have gratuitous amounts of beer. This taxi also passed judgement without having even seen the actual hide. My reaction would have been much different if I were to have taken in the hide and they would have pointed out my mistakes etc. after having seen it.

Trigger: I agree wholeheartedly with your point of increasing the education on how to field dress and skin an animal including the proper precautions and care in certain environmental conditions. I wish my CORE course included more of a focus on this topic. But I'm forced to learn on my own and am grateful for the advice I've received on this website.

I pose another question to you all: If a guy does not feel comfortable enough to skin the head and paws, how should the hide be handled/treated after being skinned? In what situation should it be salted or not? Approximately how long can it hold before being frozen with or without salt? Given the conditions described is there anything I should have done differently?

Again, thank you all for your replies!
BTW: I think I will get Ray Wiens to do the rug. I look forward to getting some coaching from him and getting the rug when it's done!

[houndogger]

If you can't skin the paws and head out. Turn ears lips eyes nose then you have one option freeze it. You can't salt body then freeze head & paws.

[Sitkaspruce]

Just as others have said, you have to either skin and salt the whole hide, or get it in the freezer w/ paws and head not skinned. Skinning the head and paws in not hard at all, just pick up a small caping/skinning knife with a short 2"-2.5" blade and follow the hide along the skull, peeling it as you go. Same with the paws. If you are going to salt it down, then you need to make sure it is fleshed out before applying salt.

My suggestion to you is to practice on every animal you shoot, caping it if it is a deer and skinning it for a rug. Get used to doing it as you just never know when you might shoot another one for a rug or shoulder mount. I used to skin and cape does, spikes and fork horns just for the practice. Same as every bear I shot.

Good luck on the mount and any pictures of the bear???

Cheers

SS

[bigwhiteys]

I pose another question to you all: If a guy does not feel comfortable enough to skin the head and paws, how should the hide be handled/treated after being skinned? In what situation should it be salted or not? Approximately how long can it hold before being frozen with or without salt? Given the conditions described is there anything I should have done differently?

As others have stated you cannot salt a partially caped out hide... You'd just make a mess.

Your best option is to skin it the best you can and then get it to a taxidermist ASAP. Your second best option is to skin it out the best you can and then freeze it, DO NOT roll it up to freeze, leave it as open as possible as BB hair is a good insulator.

Slee suggested the Wilderness Taxidermy video series. It's an excellent series of videos, very detailed and will help you with your caping.

Carl

[Andreas]

Thanks very much for all the replies everyone! I will take your advice into consideration for the next bear hunt!

Here is my original post with a few pics of the bear:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57139&highlight=successful+hunt

Link to the pictures:


http://picasaweb.google.com/andreas....eat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/andreas.diana/HuntingTripFall2010?authkey=Gv1sRgCMmOq7Hrkeim3wE&feat=directlink)

Cheers!

[kootenayelkslayer]

I haven't read everyone else's replies... but that's definitely not a good way to handle a bear hide. First thing, you cannot freeze a salted hide!
Secondly, in order to put salt on a hide you have to make sure it has been caped out completely. The hide has to be skinned clean, and the ears, lips, and nose have to be turned. Rubbing salt on to unturned parts of the face isn't going to do any good. Salt can generally only penetrate a 1/4 inch.
So next time it'd probably be best to have learned how to do all the caping if you want to salt it, otherwise just keep it as cool as possible until you can get it to a freezer and let the taxidermist do all the tough work.

[kootenayelkslayer]

I pose another question to you all: If a guy does not feel comfortable enough to skin the head and paws, how should the hide be handled/treated after being skinned? In what situation should it be salted or not? Approximately how long can it hold before being frozen with or without salt? Given the conditions described is there anything I should have done differently?


That depends on a few things. But in general, if you can keep a hide cool and dry, it should last several days. Also important to clean it up a bit, get the blood off of it.
But the combination of warmth and wetness is going to cause bacterial growth real fast, which is going to make the hide slip. Throw some blood in there and you got a recipe for disaster. The most extreme case I've seen of slippage occurred on a bear that was shot at night, wasn't found til late the next morning. It had some sun beating down on it and it died in a wet area. When I rolled it over, huge patches over hair were falling out already. Not nice, I'll never forget that smell.

[Andreas]

That depends on a few things. But in general, if you can keep a hide cool and dry, it should last several days. Also important to clean it up a bit, get the blood off of it.
But the combination of warmth and wetness is going to cause bacterial growth real fast, which is going to make the hide slip. Throw some blood in there and you got a recipe for disaster. The most extreme case I've seen of slippage occurred on a bear that was shot at night, wasn't found til late the next morning. It had some sun beating down on it and it died in a wet area. When I rolled it over, huge patches over hair were falling out already. Not nice, I'll never forget that smell.


Thanks for the info.

[Andreas]

I haven't read everyone else's replies... but that's definitely not a good way to handle a bear hide. First thing, you cannot freeze a salted hide!
Secondly, in order to put salt on a hide you have to make sure it has been caped out completely. The hide has to be skinned clean, and the ears, lips, and nose have to be turned. Rubbing salt on to unturned parts of the face isn't going to do any good. Salt can generally only penetrate a 1/4 inch.
So next time it'd probably be best to have learned how to do all the caping if you want to salt it, otherwise just keep it as cool as possible until you can get it to a freezer and let the taxidermist do all the tough work.


Just to clarify, after skinning I cleaned up the hide (ie. removed as much of the leftover fat and blood etc that I could), then I salted only the exposed parts of the hide and sprinkled some salt where I cut the head off at the base of the head and some where I cut off the feet at the ankles. I did not rub salt all over the face, nose, and paws.

For next time I plan to watch some of the recommended videos and do some reading on how to properly skin the head and do the paws etc.

[Andreas]

So from reading the replies it seems that given the following circumstances:
- It was for sure at least 3-4 days before we would head home
- Daytime temperatures were quite warm
- My limited skills/ability when it comes to prepping the hide did not allow me to fully cape the hide including skinning the head and removing the feet etc.

Most are saying that I should not have salted it... But with those warm daytime temps would it not after four days already have tons of bacterial growth and be in the beginning stages of spoiling/rotting? If this is the case, what should one do to prevent spoiling the hide? (Given that I couldn't freeze it or completely cape it)

(I really want to make sure I don't repeat any mistakes for the next one)

[Gateholio]

So from reading the replies it seems that given the following circumstances:
- It was for sure at least 3-4 days before we would head home
- Daytime temperatures were quite warm
- My limited skills/ability when it comes to prepping the hide did not allow me to fully cape the hide including skinning the head and removing the feet etc.

Most are saying that I should not have salted it... But with those warm daytime temps would it not after four days already have tons of bacterial growth and be in the beginning stages of spoiling/rotting? If this is the case, what should one do to prevent spoiling the hide? (Given that I couldn't freeze it or completely cape it)

(I really want to make sure I don't repeat any mistakes for the next one)

If you need to wait 3-4 days with no freezer, it's time to try your best at skinning the hide and paws.

YOu've looked into it, so just go for it...SKin the head, the paws, split the lips, flesh out as much as possible, pack in lots of salt and hope for the best.

You won't get better by waiting, just do it. Take your time around the campfire and get it done...

[Andreas]

Fair enough... next time I'll give it a try. Thanks for the replies everyone! :-D

[boothcreek]

I have been apprenticing at a taxidermy for over a year now. We have gotten in hides were well meaning hunters only salted the body because they did not know how to skin head and paws. Result was, body didn't loose hair, paws and head were rotten and useless since unskinned and unturned salt can't penetrate and set the hairs in the skin. Best thing is freezing freezing freezing!!!!! Or in your case bag the whole thing in a plastic bag and tie it tight and throw it in a shaded(relateively quick running) creek if its not freezing at night yet. The running water will keep it nice and cool.

Let a taxidermist show you how to skin and turn ears, eyes, nose and lips properly.

I may draw up and post some pics of how to skin out paws/head. Some may find something like that helpful. Skinning out the head is very similar with any game species.

[Andreas]

Thank you very much for the info... If you get a chance to post some pics with guidelines on how to do the face and paws that would be great! I'm sure others on the site would benefit as well. :)

[bigwhiteys]

This guy has had this webpage up for years with detailed information on how to skin/cape out a bear.

http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/magazine/blbcare.htm

It's about as detailed as you'll find without buying the wilderness taxidermy videos (which are excellent)

Carl

[Slee]

This guy has had this webpage up for years with detailed information on how to skin/cape out a bear.

http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/magazine/blbcare.htm

It's about as detailed as you'll find without buying the wilderness taxidermy videos (which are excellent)

Carl


Pics are ok but seeing the video helps out a tone. they are pretty cheap to buy and have a pile of info.

[Andreas]

Thanks everyone for all your replies and valuable info. I dropped off the hide today at Ray Wiens Taxidermy! I took the hide out of the freezer last night to start thawing and Ray called me this evening to let me know that it had thawed enough and that he had already skinned the head. Sounds like the hide should turn out quite nicely, there is minimal fur pulling out. I guess despite the warm days out in the field those crispy night temperatures did their job. I look forward to seeing the finished product!

Cheers All!
Andreas

[Trapper D]

well i did what you werent supposed to do as well, skinning bear ,leaving paws and head in , then salting , then i through it in the freezer. i took the bear out and thawed. skinned out paws and head and it was fine, since there is no salt in contact with paws and head , it wasnt difficult, hair remained firmly attached. what i did notice was some shrinkage on overall length. since taxis, charge in overall length, this maybe part of the reason they discourage salting . i can see if the bear is overly fat then yes it has the possibility of not freezing properly. now im going down to the ocean with the crab trap and skull to see how well the sealife clean up the skull

[Will]

I guess despite the warm days out in the field those crispy night temperatures did their job. I look forward to seeing the finished product!

Glad it sounds like it's gonna work out for you.
Do post up some finished pics when you get him back ! :-D

[GOLDEN TOP SNIPER]

Best thing i found if you dont have a excperiance person ,like a outfitter to show you all the tricks of skinning out head and paws and salting when your out in the bush for a number of days , is to go get cozy with a good taxidemist or tannery ..ask lots of questions , bring a note pad , write it all down . try and spend some time there and watch how its done . and also if it was taken at night , before you salted it , you could have waited till morning to finish it up . been rested up .then take your time with your morning coffee .may take a few hours, going nice and slow but so what ..you can see then and not be using a headlamp. also try try to cool it overnight .. just hang it up on some branchs if you have to . wide open to get cool air under it.. a ladder works good if you have one handy .much easer to skin when its warm but youll get the job done by noon . then do the salt .then keep it cool best you can ..dont put in freezer when you get home . straight to nearest tannery or taxidemist ,fast as you can .Bear hides are funny , some have been thru hell and have turned out just fine ,others not so good..

[Andreas]

Thanks for the info Golden Top Sniper. As it turns out, the overnight temps were cold enough to keep it in good condition. After it thawed out at the taxidermist he let me know that there is minimal hair pull. Next time I'll give it a shot with skinning the head etc. Thanks a lot everyone for your input.:)

[GOLDEN TOP SNIPER]

no problem . good luck on the next one . its a bit of a art to get good at it .at least thats what i found , took a couple of bears to get it down ..lol.