Bison Should Be A Gos!!

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

Sorry i have to rant this morning! there is way to many hunters showing up unprepared for there hunts and not willing to do the work!! people are coming up for 2 to 3 days and going home ...oh it's too cold.... is f$#@*^% bulls@#% what do people expect just to drive around in the pickup and drink coffee baileys? there is allot of hunters out there that would die for this opportunity....this year has been tuff hunting do to lack of snow and warm conditions and now when the weather is co-operating hunters are pulling the pin because they are unprepared is just crazy!!

The MOE should provide more info and better maps to the hunters because it's not enough..i think the Moe should provide a link to HBC..so we can educate allot more hunters that are getting drawn for these hunts so we can get the success rate higher or just put it GOS.... so lets here your opinions

[Gun Dog]

I think the MOE looks at the success rate and adjusts the number of LEH permits (or guide permits) accordingly. Lower success means more permits.

[shallowH2O]

from what I witnessed up there while accompanying some friends on their hunt this year I agree totally with SEMFanatic. Lots of people unprepared and lots of groups putting in half hearted efforts and leaving after a couple days. Baffleing to myself on a once in a lifetime hunt.

[lilhoss]

It's the same for all LEH species.There is a large percentage of hunters for all species that don't harvest or don't even go.I know a guy from Nanaimo area with a rosey draw almost in his backyard and he hasn't even gone out once.Sounds like he may not even go try.I see lots of guys go hunting each year "unprepared" for whatever the trip holds,so it's not just the LEH's.Not up to the MOE to provide maps,honey holes,etc,hell,.. some guys on here provide that info!!

[SHAKER]

GOS all the way! Scrap LEH all together unless their is a legitament conservation consern, not run by politics and special interest groups. Get them G-bears off, get them Buffs off cause I don't think theirs any way of wipe'n them out. (before you say it---- the north country is waaayyyyyy different then the prairies!)

[M.Dean]

A Bison Hunt!!! Sounds great on paper, but a lot of people don't have a clue what it takes to shoot a animal that big in winter conditions! I think some novelist hunters think they simply drive around back of your place, shoot a huge bull and drive home! And yes, maybe in the LEH regs there should be a write up about what you can expect to get a Buffalo. I spent a fare bit of time up there hunting and every year it was different conditions. Maybe a pamphlet sent to the lucky hunter with his tag should explain what to expect and a list of what's needed to hunt in extreme cold, snowy conditions? I wonder if they had a few story's from successful hunters and some from unsuccessful ones if that would help at all???

[guest]

Your Right on the money Jamie, and you HAVE been a huge help to so many, good on you. Some day i will be back as our hunt last year was a great experience, as we WERE prepared and got our 2.

CT

[Gateholio]

I'd like to see the MOE put out more information for potential hunters BEFORE they apply. And this goes for all LEH that is in a remote area or has challenging conditions.

I fel that the small notations they put on some remote LEH hunts isn't adequate.

[SHAKER]

I've talked to friends of mine who were interested in applying for buff, my first reaction to them was don't was your time or others opertunity. Equiptment alone to handle these some of these guys just don't have. Your not going to deal with one of these with a lock back knife and your camper on the back of your truck!

I've been in the Sikanni after a Buff shoot by the natives and we didn't see a track for close to a week. If it wasn't for some old buffalo chips on the road you wouldn't think they even lived there. They can go reclusive for a huge lump and even though I havent had the pleasure of hunting them I positive they're not a push over when the pressures on, just like any other critter.

[bucktrack]

Lots of guys are unpreared for any hunt. I seen a guy hiking once for his sheep draw with a cast iron fying pan and a full sized down pillow and canned food goods We refer to him as the "fying pan man" Limited entries are put out on expected harvest rates. If every limited entry was a success there would be waaaaaayyyyy less chances of getting an LEH

[Darksith]

why should the moe have to babysit potential applicants/recipients of any draw? And honestly if it was GOS for the buff everyone of us fanatics would be up there every year smokin 1. I dream of getting that draw, but I'd love to go up there and run into all you boys, but I'd hate to go up there and not find my animal b/c of all the extra pressure from all the extra idiots. Think of what a GOS would do, how many more unprepared idiots would be up there every year.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

why should the moe have to babysit potential applicants/recipients of any draw? And honestly if it was GOS for the buff everyone of us fanatics would be up there every year smokin 1. I dream of getting that draw, but I'd love to go up there and run into all you boys, but I'd hate to go up there and not find my animal b/c of all the extra pressure from all the extra idiots. Think of what a GOS would do, how many more unprepared idiots would be up there every year.

I think -35 would take care of the people that don't like the cold or not really prepared with sleds and ambition

[ratherbefishin]

never mind what happens until they actually put one on the ground.....NOW WHAT?

[Marlin375]

I think -35 would take care of the people that don't like the cold or not really prepared with sleds and ambition

If opening day was in early October (as it is now) it would be all over before there was snow on the ground.

Picture Vern in his pimped out hummer collecting tolls from 200-300 rigs lined up at the ranch days before opening....the stampede would be over in a few short days.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

If opening day was in early October (as it is now) it would be all over before there was snow on the ground.

Picture Vern in his pimped out hummer collecting tolls from 200-300 rigs lined up at the ranch days before opening....the stampede would be over in a few short days.

that would be true..LOL but if we had a GOS from DEC-Feb and the rules were enforced i think we would have a chance of knocking down the herd to where they weren't impacting the sheep and caribou and goats and the moose so bad...

[Marlin375]

I was there last year in October and there could have easily been a few more hunters during this time (could be there were authorizations that never got used) but we could not understand why you could not thin out the heard in Sept, Oct and November and do away with the crazy sub zero uber challenging hunts of dec and jan.

[aggiehunter]

We camped there last year and everyone we met got there Bison...so the problem is....and they weren't paying Vern either.

[silvicon]

Any GOS on Bison would put the herd in jeopardy.
Every yahoo would be up there causing trouble, shooting Bison in the stomache and not find them anymore.
A good LEH system is the right thing to kep everything under control.
If someone wants to kill a Bison every year, there are enough Bison Ranches throughout the western provinces

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

I was there last year in October and there could have easily been a few more hunters during this time (could be there were authorizations that never got used) but we could not understand why you could not thin out the heard in Sept, Oct and November and do away with the crazy sub zero uber challenging hunts of dec and jan.

allot has to do with the muskwa kechika and access into the back end of the trail with the restrictions. there is lots of tags that don't get hunted every year... there would be allot of meat spoilage in the Sept hunts

[Marlin375]

allot has to do with the muskwa kechika and access into the back end of the trail with the restrictions. there is lots of tags that don't get hunted every year... there would be allot of meat spoilage in the Sept hunts

when you say access into the back end of the trail...you mean only done with a snowmobile, and thus the reason behind the late season dates.

I fully understand the spoilage issue, caping the head on mine the next day was about the most unpleasant job I have ever had. You could leave a moose head for a week and it would not be as rotten.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

when you say access into the back end of the trail...you mean only done with a snowmobile, and thus the reason behind the late season dates.

I fully understand the spoilage issue, caping the head on mine the next day was about the most unpleasant job I have ever had. You could leave a moose head for a week and it would not be as rotten.

that's right snowmobile's only which i think should be removed in the winter cuz the ATVs aren't hurting nothing on a ice road...

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

Any GOS on Bison would put the herd in jeopardy.
Every yahoo would be up there causing trouble, shooting Bison in the stomache and not find them anymore.
A good LEH system is the right thing to kep everything under control.
If someone wants to kill a Bison every year, there are enough Bison Ranches throughout the western provinces

so we should let the bison push every other animal out?? you clearly don't have a clue what your talking about!! the herd is still growing with the currant leh system..

[Marlin375]

that's right snowmobile's only which i think should be removed in the winter cuz the ATVs aren't hurting nothing on a ice road...

So sleds can go past stinky creek (about 26k if I remember) were the "no motor vehicles beyond this point" sign is. At least when it is installed and not thrown in the willows

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

So sleds can go past stinky creek (about 26k if I remember) were the "no motor vehicles beyond this point" sign is. At least when it is installed and not thrown in the willows

i do believe your allowed to sled into rob lake...yep your allowed just checked my map.:wink:

[6616]

GOS might not be possible (also might be) with the front-country herds along the Alaska Highway, but any herds that are competing with sheep and elk for winter range should be harvested much heavier with a very long GOS season..

[Orangethunder]

People fail getting deer dealt with at times. How much advice do you need to give people? It might be frustrating but the government can't be expected to spoon feed idiots so that they are successful. As for the GOS, wouldn't that just increase the amount of fools trying it? I agree that people should do more research and better understand logistics but there is a limit. That being said I'd love to be able to take part in a bison hunt, never seem to get drawn though.

[6616]

so we should let the bison push every other animal out?? you clearly don't have a clue what your talking about!! the herd is still growing with the currant leh system..

Not surprizing, consider the source, Silvicon thinks everything from squirrels on up should be on LEH so those frikkin' pig resident hunters can be controlled.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

We camped there last year and everyone we met got there Bison...so the problem is....and they weren't paying Vern either.

the problem is every year is different with weather conditions so..when there is no snow or frost in the ground going around Vern's is a big pain in the ass getting stuck and winching half the morning is not what i would recommend..the weather on the last hunt sucked 1 bison got killed that i know of.

[aggiehunter]

SMEF...it's tough when you love all them critters hey....your in the know and accept your comments thoroughly.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

SMEF...it's tough when you love all them critters hey....your in the know and accept your comments thoroughly.

CAN SOMEONE INTURPEDT THIS FOR ME

[boxhitch]

I doubt MOE has a 'management strategy' for bison, its probably the last one to be done.
Regardless of the hunter control that is in place, we should be asking why it is still a leh hunt.
-Have the traditional populations numbers been reached ? :rolleyes:
-What is the target pop. number for what is turning out to be an invasive species ?
-Is the habitat in use really sacrificial and is the displacement of other species really so important to grow the bison numbers ?

[Buck]

We will be up Dec 3 rd ish and i believe we will be prepared.Predicting the weather is our biggest challenge right now.Sleds or Quads? how cold it gets isn't our worry.How to effectively get around is the question.

[gitnadoix]

So you have never found yourself unprepared for anything, wow, that impressive. People got a right to go and learn, and try try again. Some people may not have friends that have the knowledge, and rather than trust a stranger they decide that learning is half thre fun.

PS I did get the draw a few years back and we had -45 and wind, we got ours on day three and left. We helped out several people that needed help including one guy that was by himself with a big animal down. he appreciated the help and learned a lot I am sure and I would guess from that positive experince he had with us help will do the same in the future for others....

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

So you have never found yourself unprepared for anything, wow, that impressive. People got a right to go and learn, and try try again. Some people may not have friends that have the knowledge, and rather than trust a stranger they decide that learning is half thre fun.

PS I did get the draw a few years back and we had -45 and wind, we got ours on day three and left. We helped out several people that needed help including one guy that was by himself with a big animal down. he appreciated the help and learned a lot I am sure and I would guess from that positive experince he had with us help will do the same in the future for others....

I here things if only i known more all the time so whats wrong with trying to help guys out the first time? would it not be a good idea for the MOE to give bison hunters a link to HBC to help them out with getting more prepared??

[Marlin375]

I think that the MOE would try a GOS but the logistics of the hunt itself would be like trying to keep highschool students out of the Petro-Can accross the street at lunch time. Just too small an area with very limited access for "anybody with a tag" to go on a hunt that starts on the same day.

[Bear Chaser]

Sorry i have to rant this morning! there is way to many hunters showing up unprepared for there hunts and not willing to do the work!! people are coming up for 2 to 3 days and going home ...oh it's too cold.... is f$#@*^% bulls@#% what do people expect just to drive around in the pickup and drink coffee baileys? there is allot of hunters out there that would die for this opportunity....this year has been tuff hunting do to lack of snow and warm conditions and now when the weather is co-operating hunters are pulling the pin because they are unprepared is just crazy!!

The MOE should provide more info and better maps to the hunters because it's not enough..i think the Moe should provide a link to HBC..so we can educate allot more hunters that are getting drawn for these hunts so we can get the success rate higher or just put it GOS.... so lets here your opinions

Good rant.
I agree with Gatehouse that the MOE needs to do more to educate would be applicants before they apply.
People who do not take full advantage of their LEH are poachers of another kind IMO. They aren't breaking any laws but they are definitely "robbing" the rest of us of an opportunity at the resource.

[bucktrack]

How can those guys who are unprepared be robbing anyone else of an opportuynity. Its a lottery. Why don't you take it one step further and suggest for certain leh's oh lets say the ashanola sheep draw, that one must pass a physical test before they apply.

[aggiehunter]

SMEF..I'll interperet myself..what I meant is although you want a GOS on Bison you still have an affinity for them and all the other critters that are effected by the Bisons presence....there was no jab intended and after being at your lodge I know that you know what your talking about whereas some may not...

[yama49]

GOS ALL THE WAY been there done that, way to many buffalo. i would rather see moose elk sheep, instesd of cow(buff} $hit in the the back country.

[gitnadoix]

OK where do you draw the line then the govt now has to supply all the back ground info on how and where to find a Bison. So those people who supply guiding services are gonna say hey your cutting into our buisness and we are gonna sue you......or do you supply back ground info fo all animals ?? It is a pandora's box that the govt will never open for fear of the slippery slope it creates.....

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

SMEF..I'll interperet myself..what I meant is although you want a GOS on Bison you still have an affinity for them and all the other critters that are effected by the Bisons presence....there was no jab intended and after being at your lodge I know that you know what your talking about whereas some may not...

well thank you for clarifying, well i guess your right i do love them critters..SHEEP.ELK.MOOSE. and want to be able continue hunting them and anyone else that comes up to pink mt to hunt and to go home good memories.

[6616]

OK where do you draw the line then the govt now has to supply all the back ground info on how and where to find a Bison. So those people who supply guiding services are gonna say hey your cutting into our buisness and we are gonna sue you......or do you supply back ground info fo all animals ?? It is a pandora's box that the govt will never open for fear of the slippery slope it creates.....

Yah, you're probably right, will never happen. Maybe earlier openings...more tags, or GOS...? One things pretty clear, they need to establish a population objective with a maximum and figure out a way to maintain it.

[moose2]

This is a copy of mine from an earlier thread.

I think hunters regulate themselves during GOS I have noticed in areas that game has thinned out , and or hunting areas have grown over. The camps get smaller and the number of hunters are way less. The lousy hunting and low harvest forces hunters too move around in search of new spots allowing the other area to start its recovery. It seems to work well and nothing has to be organized by anyone. I think bison season would be the same . The first GOS year you would have 3000 resident hunters each buying a $80.00 tag and spending a $1000.00 each for hunting expences showing up for opening morning. 100 bison ( give or take ) would get shot before the heards left over the mountains to find a quiet valley with less pressure. So the next season 2000 of the orginal hunters say screw that gong show I would rather stay closer to home and hunt deer and elk or what ever. So I think for reasons like this GOS would work just fine , and if there was an over harvesting issue in an area it could be dealt with through season closers like they did with the Hudson Hope moose 18 years ago. Or through life time harvest restrictions ie "one grizz per hunter or what ever would work" I am all in favour of scraping LEH myself
MIKE

[hunterlaura]

In a way, I would have to disagree - for all the people that criticized the fact that I was asking for some last minute info on our pink mountain hunt, ya ok if you don't like it so be it, BUT, me and my mom breathe the outdoors, and I would have to say we kicked pink mountains ass. We have spent our whole lives outdoors and can handle the elements. Some people are just wussies and that is where I would have to agree with you!

[CanuckShooter]

This is a copy of mine from an earlier thread.

I think hunters regulate themselves during GOS I have noticed in areas that game has thinned out , and or hunting areas have grown over. The camps get smaller and the number of hunters are way less. The lousy hunting and low harvest forces hunters too move around in search of new spots allowing the other area to start its recovery. It seems to work well and nothing has to be organized by anyone. I think bison season would be the same . The first GOS year you would have 3000 resident hunters each buying a $80.00 tag and spending a $1000.00 each for hunting expences showing up for opening morning. 100 bison ( give or take ) would get shot before the heards left over the mountains to find a quiet valley with less pressure. So the next season 2000 of the orginal hunters say screw that gong show I would rather stay closer to home and hunt deer and elk or what ever. So I think for reasons like this GOS would work just fine , and if there was an over harvesting issue in an area it could be dealt with through season closers like they did with the Hudson Hope moose 18 years ago. Or through life time harvest restrictions ie "one grizz per hunter or what ever would work" I am all in favour of scraping LEH myself
MIKE


FINALLY...the voice of common sense...although with the price of fuel up there $2000 each is more likely, talk about a potential for stimulating the economy!!

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

In a way, I would have to disagree - for all the people that criticized the fact that I was asking for some last minute info on our pink mountain hunt, ya ok if you don't like it so be it, BUT, me and my mom breathe the outdoors, and I would have to say we kicked pink mountains ass. We have spent our whole lives outdoors and can handle the elements. Some people are just wussies and that is where I would have to agree with you!
congrats on your bison...come kick pink mt ass now when it -37 with wind chill and all the bison are pushed out from the earlier hunts it's a little tougher now.:wink:

[partner]

Friends are there right now. Phoned last night. No fresh sign or snow for sleds. No river crossing, not froze over. Lots of disappointed hunters right now. No need for buffalo to come back down, lots of feed up top. It would be tough to pick a time for GOS. Jamie u are right about try to hunt them now, or when it is minus -37. Been there done that. The early draws are the ticket. After that it becomes a mountain trek. A few lucky hunters do manage to catch them sneaking around down low. More people go away realizing they could do things different next time!

[SHAKER]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wern't these things released\escape'es years ago by a rancher? Don't think they're a native spieces even.

[hunterlaura]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wern't these things released\escape'es years ago by a rancher? Don't think they're a native spieces even.

In I believe 1972 they got away from the rancher, I think the herd was around 30 or 40 at that time.

[hunterlaura]

sorry that would be herd of 50 escaped in 1968. :)

[SHAKER]

:twisted:Should be GOS, invasive spiecies competing with indiginous wild life! Plane and simple. If I released Llammas into an area I'm sure they would want them removed by any means required.

I just picked Llamas as an example.... So lets not get side tracked.

[bridger]

the old guide outfitter lynn ross brought 37 head of bison in to the halfway valley in the 1970's to establish another specie for his non resident hunters. the bison never really escaped as they were just turned loose and with no fence on his property they went into the mtns. a long legal battle between the moe and lynn ross carried on for years. finally the court awarded custody of the bison to the government and allowed ross to capture 200 head as compensation. soon after leh hunts were estabished which has led us up to the present situation.

[SHAKER]

the old guide outfitter lynn ross brought 37 head of bison in to the halfway valley in the 1970's to establish another specie for his non resident hunters. the bison never really escaped as they were just turned loose and with no fence on his property they went into the mtns. a long legal battle between the moe and lynn ross carried on for years. finally the court awarded custody of the bison to the government and allowed ross to capture 200 head as compensation. soon after leh hunts were estabished which has led us up to the present situation.

Thanks Bridger, I was waiting for you to set the record strait, I couldn't rember if it was Ross or for some reason Peck kept come'n to mind?? Not sure why? Anyways still a domestic evasive spieces.:twisted:

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

well on a good note 2 guys got nice bull tonight and they heard 3 more were taken yesterday so things are looking up:-D

[Fraink]

They gave us an extended season this year in Jan. It's a good start, I remember all the discussion last year about harvesting more bison, it seems someone was listening. I can't help thinking a GOS would create a gong show of epic proportions, such a confined area to hunt. The dissapointed hunters couldn't go to the "next" bison area to let these ones recover. Also a mass influx of hunters through these areas could drive the bison farther and create more conflict with other species. As to the original topic of unprepared hunters.....it is hard to watch people let an opportunity slip past for lack of research and guts. Kudos to the people that find a way to get the job done.

PS a GOS in Jan. might work brrrrr!!