Grizzly Bear Population

[slyfox]

I am just wondering if anyone knows what the actual population of Grizzly bears is in BC? I have heard it's about 16,000 animals, but I can't see it being that low if they have a hunting season for it! Everytime I go out I see Grizzly Bears...I hope they don't close it.

[Kirby]

Where are you going out to see grizzly's everytime?

Kirby

[slyfox]

I see them every year when I go sheep hunting up North and do see a lot of them in Reg 7 when moose hunting, and in the Reg 4 as well, and have see them in the Reg 3 when goat hunting. I don't see them all the time when I am hunting Kirby, never seen one in Delta hunting ducks or in Squamish hunting Deer... sorry about "all the time" thats not correct I meant I've seen a lot of grizz in the bush when I am hunting. Are you trying to frost my apples?

[scuba]

i see quite a few while hunting too, didn't fill my draw yet (probably won't) but hunted region 7-18 for 7 days and saw 6 different bears 5 were in the same day. i agree there is more but when they do a count i think they survey one small area and figure it must be like that everywhere? more or less guessing from an ofice in victoria.

[ryanb]

I think the 16,000 number is in the right ballpark. Remember there are areas with low population densities, like most of region 3, and region 8. Then of course there are none on the islands and in most of region 2. Of course, where the populations densities are higher they have LEH.

I'm fairly certain the biologists know what they're doing when they set the number of LEH authorizations and population estimates.

[death-junky]

in the kitimat Vally they are taking over!!!!! in one weekend of hunting I saw 6 diffrent grizziles in 6 diffrent areas. so I would say It is alot higher then that!
ttyal
Riley

[coaster]

Scuba, I agree with you on 7-18, I hunt both 7-17 and7-18 in the Mc.Gregor valley. If you nail a moose in the evening and don't get it out, the chance it will be claimed by a Grizzly is high.We had one chase a guy on a Quad for about a 1/4 mile, now we hunt in pairs..

[oldtimer]

I was talking to a fellow from out the Bowron and when travelling back and forth to Quesnel for supplies etc. he sees at one time or another 5 different bears. 3 are cubs with 1 sow so I would say the population is healthy.

[Elkhound]

They are expanding in territory. Give it a few more years and we on the coast might start seeing the odd one as well.

[Gunner]

Every year I am seeing more grizzlies in my area(8-26,8-25).I've seen 3 different bears this spring,and I haven't been up the hill much.I've also heard about a bear near Jimmy Lake,another in 8-22,west of Vernon,and one more just south of Chase.It's no suprise,it's all historical grizzly habitat,and they are showing up where they used to live!The population is expanding,no one hunts them(no LEHs!),and they can make a living closer to people than the bunnyhuggers (and biologists) think!Just ask the people in Bella Coola,or Malakwa!:biggrin:

[youngfellla]

I have to agree, the grizz population is healthy. Lots of bears moving back in to areas where they had been 'shot-out' previously.

My uncle recently sold his guide territory in Tweedsmuir. The last two years he was in there, his grizzly quota was cut back to 1 bear! Anyone who has been in Tweedsmuir knows that it has no shortage of bears whatsoever.:-x

[Elkhound]

Nice new avatar youngfella:-D

[youngfellla]

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[CanuckShooter]

7-21 is chock full also....and only 1 leh?? me thinks someone in victoria isn't doing their homework??

[Stone Sheep Steve]

A friend of mine is good friends with one of the head biologists in.....well, let's just say somewhere up north;) . He was telling me that one of the most recent consensus' was pointing to a figure closer to 25,000 grizzlies in the province. As their methods get more accurrate (eg DNA research) they are believing that their estimates in the past were too low. This would be consistent with what most hunters in the field are reporting. However, due to the politics that # will not be released as the antis would jump all over it and say that it is obvious that the biologists don't know how many g-bears there are in the province. I'm sure as more #'s are released we will continue to see a VERY steady increase in the population.

SSS

[kutenay]

I have seen more Grizzlies in the bush and even beside the highway during province-wide trips in the past two years than ever before in the 50 years since I saw my first one, age 10, near Nelson, B.C. When I worked alone on isolated B.C.F.S. lookouts and other bush sites from '65 to '74, one seldom encountered Grizzlies because they were hunted hard; we usually never packed a gun on the job. Now, I seldom go into certain areas without one of my Grizzly guns and I think that MORE hunting is needed, this from a life-long, hardcore "tree-hugger".

Our problem in B.C. is that our pathetic school system teaches kids absolute bullschitt about nature as well as Canadian history and becoming useful, productive and self-reliant adults. So, the whacko-enviros, who are largely in it for the $$$$$$, like that _____ ______ hole, Suzuki, manage to influence young people in ways that are not in tune with natural reality.

It's like the HUGE uproar over the Okanagan Mountain Park fire in 2003, the halfwits in Victoria HAD to hire some failed politician from another province to conduct a "study" to determine how to deal with this; those of us who have some biological education and field experience simply said, "let it be" and, sure enough, it "greened up". Too many desk jockies and too many TV outdoorsmen, that's our problem.

[BOOMSTICK]

Too many desk jockies and too many TV outdoorsmen, that's our problem.

Ain't that the truth! It's sad that many of the ones making decisions have little or no real world experience, and common sense is a rare thing in politics.

The grizzly population is steadily climbing. I've also spoken to a few biologists involved with grizzly bear studies, and they have also said that 25,000 is a more accurate estimate of the bear population in B.C.

I've seen bears where up until a few years ago, there were no bears, and in the last five years we have had more trouble with bears at our guiding camps than we've ever had.

I did notice LEH permits were increased from last year, hopefully that trend continues.

[bighornbob]

It's like the HUGE uproar over the Okanagan Mountain Park fire in 2003, the halfwits in Victoria HAD to hire some failed politician from another province to conduct a "study" to determine how to deal with this; those of us who have some biological education and field experience simply said, "let it be" and, sure enough, it "greened up". Too many desk jockies and too many TV outdoorsmen, that's our problem.

The ones with the real biological education realized what a ticking time bomb that area could be if a major rain storm hit (as it did on Oct. 18, roads washed out and houses flooded). So it was decided to seed the area. I dont know how many thousand pounds of seed was dropped from helicopters so the area would green up. All that nice grass in the spring was due too the desk jockies knowing that natural regen would not be fast enough.

BHB

[kutenay]

I have seen more than a few "washouts" in seeded areas in my years of actual field work in supervising reforestation. Erosion following large-scale forest fires is a natural, landform modification that is not going to be prevented by grass, in the short-term.

However, my comments referred to the uproar over the "devastastion" and "ruining" of an area by a natural process like wildfire, as I thought was obvious. Real biological education does not come entirely in university and very seldom at desks, or, so my professors used to tell me.

The REAL point here is the hiring of a former politician with NO knowledge of B.C. ecosystems to produce a report that recommended logging in Provincial Parks, using the over-stated furor about OK. Mtn. Pk. to advance this agenda, which the current government obviously wanted to begin with......just like the BS about the huge increase in raw log exports being beneficial to the economy.

[BCLongshot]

Man you guys get me excited !!!

[BCLongshot]

Kutenay

You should watch how much info you give when telling us dates like '65-'74 your revealing your age. Ha Ha

[kutenay]

I yam what I yam!!!! Just your basic ornery old phart!!!!

BTW, I have great respect for anyone who holds a degree in any bioscience, my comments are not intended to denigrate lab workers or honest civil servants, just to generate discussion and point out that often those on the ground have the most realistic concepts concerning environmental management.

As to exciting you......DOWN BOY!!!!! :) :) :)

[sealevel]

I don`t know where all these places are in region 3 that don`t have grizzlies ryanb. Seams theres a pretty healthy pop. in all the northern parts of 3.

[PGKris]

Well there are those who hold degrees in resource management that have field experience or are "on the ground" and also those who have degrees and have no field experience to speak of.
When I complete MY degree, I'll be the former. I've been doing this since I could hold the butt end off the ground.
Stone Sheep Steve, I have been told (probably by the same guy or group of guys) that grizzly numbers UP NORTH are stable and likely increasing. (I can't vouch for anything south of region 7) Anyone who has hunted 7-16, 7-17, 7-18, 7-23 and 7-24 for the last 10 years can tell you for fact that the grizzly population has increased.
I think, overall, the "current" estimate of 16,000 is too low. I think 25,000 is probably an overshot. I would ballpark it at 20,000 animals just to stay on the safe side of things. 25,000 is not really a stretch but its always good to leave some wiggle room.
It is damned near impossible to get even a reasonable fascimile of grizzly bear numbers simply because of where and how they live. Buddy of mine was watching a sow and 2 cubs on a mountain out in 7-18 one day. He heard a chopper coming and about 5 seconds later, that sow had her cubs in the thick stuff. he said as soon as the chopper cleared the next ridge, she was back out in the open with her cubs. Shows you how accurate air counts are.
My $.06 :)
Kris

[Foxer]

the 'official' figures in 2000 was 12 - 16 thousand bears. Realistically, given their growth projections we should be around 17-20 thousand bears. So if the figures were a little off - 25,000 seems pretty reasonable.

Based on projections for growth we should also guess there's just over 200,000 black bears around about now as well.

That's a pretty serious bear population in this province.

[PGKris]

Soooo.......remove the restriction on taking the black bear meat with you....and you'll have more bear hunters and less black bears.....that's the only reason I havent shot 2 this year....I don't want to eat them. Another 2 cents :D

[Hank Hunter]

Really, why not just forget about licenses and then we can just just kill for the sake of it. dont think so

[PGKris]

That would work on the North Fraser Road!
Don't get pissy with me I'm just stating a fact. Less people hunt bears because of the stipulation that you have to take home the meat. That's why we have too many bears. The only population control open to us is no longer effective.

[MB_Boy]

That would work on the North Fraser Road!
Don't get pissy with me I'm just stating a fact. Less people hunt bears because of the stipulation that you have to take home the meat. That's why we have too many bears. The only population control open to us is no longer effective.

Kris....I could get numbers for you if you were interested, but in MB you don't (or didn't 10+yrs ago) have to take out the meat at all and to be honest.....it didn't really attract to many more hunters. I think as a percentage among hunters there are probably a LOT less bear hunters there than here. The bear population in MB has been on a slow and steady increase as well.

I'll find some numbers for you if you are interested.

[mainland hunter]

bear meat's great (usually) why would you want to leave it. there's always someone who'll take it, and if it's a fishy bear than the dogs'll be happy

[slyfox]

Would you take grizzly meat home.

[mainland hunter]

i'd try some. ive heard of some people saying its good and others say its horrible. id try it and if its nasty the dogs would get it.

[Kirby]

I've had grizz, it was good, same as black bear.

Kirby

[steveo32]

I have had grizz, i thought it was the same as black bear. If i were to hunt them i would definatly take some of the meat. It made awsome peperoni!!!


steve

[Hank Hunter]

not trying to get pissy, but the law was enforced to try and slow down the trade on gall bladders.

[PGKris]

Which will go on regardless of laws against it. Minor deterrant. Either way, it stopped me from hunting bears. That's two more live bears out there. I just proved my point. Having to remove the meat stops people from hunting bears.

[slyfox]

If the gov makes a rule that a hunter has to take the meat on black bears why the hell does not a hunter have to take grizz meat.I think it should be all the same stuped rule i think.

[Gateholio]

not trying to get pissy, but the law was enforced to try and slow down the trade on gall bladders.

The meat retention regulation was put into place long before the ga bladder regulation.

The meat retention regulation was a political move, not much else. It was not all that long ago (maybe 12 year, I am guessing??) that meat retention was not required for back bears.

[houndogger]

Well if your not going to eat the meat then how many rugs or head mounts do ya want? I know I don't have the bank account or the walls in my house to put up a couple of rugs a year. I have never ate a bad bear yet.

[boxhitch]

There is a general sentiment that G Bear meat is terrible, and I believe that traditionally, some of our native friends would shun G Bear but enjoy B Bear. Still others would never consider killing any bear.
We watched a G Bear carcass near a camp in the Cassiars, for over a week, and the only thing that hit it was birds. A moose would have had wolves or bears on it within a day.
I bet the b bear meat retention rule only came into effect to please the Antis.

[timber]

Im bear hunting from late arp till late may 7/24 what i am seeing is the grizz population up 3 to 5 %,But black bear# seem to be way down the last two years, and this just is not me seeing this I have spoke with the outfitter next to me he noted the same thing.on a good sunny day you could see 10 to 15 bear a day. now on a good day 3 to 5, but i did see some thing really cool this year, and this has nothing to do with the ## we where looking in bear dens and came a cross one that a grizz had dug out the black bear in it KILLED it ate some and buried it right in front of the den. I usual just carry a small bat, But this time I went back to the truck and got the mag and my motion camera an had buddy stand on guard well i put the cam in a tree. I will go back next month and get it back if i get any good pics i will post them.

[Gunner]

You are dead right Gatehouse ,the meat retention rule came in so Black bear hunting wouldn't be "Trophy hunting"!(Hides only)It was put in to get around the protests of "Bear Watch",and other like-minded ***holes.By the way I saw another Griz today(8-25),a new one ,looked like a 6-7 ft. boar,real blonde on the back,and rubbed.Cheers,Gunner.

[boxhitch]

Gunner - keep some stats , and pics maybe, and bring it up at the next regional Bio's meeting next winter (date??). Some of the guys at Lumby have had G Bear troubles with cattle for years. Maybe it is time for a hunt.

[Gunner]

It would be nice to have a chance to draw LEH griz locally.I'm pretty sure I could find a bear!The rumour mill in Vernon says that the 3year old I took pictures of 2 weeks ago has been poached.I ran into the CO up near Stony lake,and he asked us to watch for ravens,The suspect vehicle is a black GMC dually.The witness saw the bear,5 minutes later heard shots,and saw this pickup hightailig it out of there.I hope they were only scaring him,as far as I know,no body has been found.Regards,Gunner:sad:

[boxhitch]

Observe, record, report. I know of a red Jeep Cherokee that I am keeping an eye out for, too.

[Barracuda]

I agree with mainland , bear meat is pretty tasty and almost any edibile meat can be made into a decent sausage.

[PGKris]

Observe, record, report. I know of a red Jeep Cherokee that I am keeping an eye out for, too.

I'm pretty sure we're all watching for one vehicle or another. I carry the phone numbers of the fish cops on me when I'm out. There's too many yahoos out there.

[Onesock]

Why would anyone NOT hunt black bears because you have to pack out the meat. As someone said earlier makes the best pepperoni.

[PGKris]

All the bear pepperoni I've ever had has been nasty, foul tasting garbage.

[slyfox]

Im with you pgkris it not my favorite meat.

[willy442]

point out that often those on the ground have the most realistic concepts concerning environmental management.

Kutenay.How can you make this statement and still have such negative views towards professional Outfitters and Hunting guides that spend far more time on the ground, than you or any of the so called wildlife managers could possibly begin to. Your above comment is exactly why clubs and foundations like RMEF, FNAWS, SCI and GO's are among the first to jump on board with most all, sound conservation plans and stratigies, through knowledge gained from Trapperrs and Guides. Also it is for these same reasons that managers implement things like Grizzly and Sheep quota's, They are not capable of managing wildlife, they instead manage people.

[timber]

kutenay:wink: where all waiting incipience

[timber]

ooops spelled that wrong impatientially :?

[huntwriter]

point out that often those on the ground have the most realistic concepts concerning environmental management.

Kutenay.How can you make this statement and still have such negative views towards professional Outfitters and Hunting guides that spend far more time on the ground, than you or any of the so called wildlife managers could possibly begin to. Your above comment is exactly why clubs and foundations like RMEF, FNAWS, SCI and GO's are among the first to jump on board with most all, sound conservation plans and stratigies, through knowledge gained from Trapperrs and Guides. Also it is for these same reasons that managers implement things like Grizzly and Sheep quota's, They are not capable of managing wildlife, they instead manage people.
It's with all professions the same. In my former line of work there where animal behaviorists, like me, who spent all their time in the field and working with animals to gain knowledge.

On the other hand there where just as many who never, or rarely, saw a live animal and sat all day in a cozy office buried behind books and computers.

While our knowledge was based on practical field experience and therefore often more accurate. The office animal beahviorists expertise was pure theory. Unfortunatly it happens often that governments tend to belive a guy in a suit and tie more than a guy in jeans smelling of animals.:wink:

[kutenay]

My personal field experience involved living, alone, for periods from 3-5.5 months in the most remote wilderness areas of B.C. and Alberta; I did this from 1965 to 1993 and still go solo with backpack and gun into isolated bush areas all over B.C. So, I actually have a considerable amount of bush experience and since I am a Canadian born and bred, from pioneer stock, I had the opportunity to learn from wildlife biologists with field experience, oldtime trappers/prospectors/loggers/anglers throughout the western part of Canada and to even take a few university courses in certain aspects of environmental science.

From this half-century of actual experience, I have learned to respect others, spell, write, work at various bush and urban jobs and even keep myself from smelling bad while backpacking my drinking and wash water up steep mountain sides. I also have learned not to attempt to belittle others whom I do not know, even when they demonstrate both ignorance and malice, because this only indicates a type of ignorance all too often found among those who cannot discuss anything without acting like overgrown children.

I trust that makes my position clear and MOST of the many people I worked with for years in the B.C.Forest Service, the Alberta Forest Service, the Canadian Coast Guard and private forestry companies HAD a great deal of field experience as well as formal education. This is not the case with foreigners who really know nothing about Canada, claims about personal "expertise" being as specious as the admittance of personal aroma is true.

I have NO issues with B.C. G/Os or their employees who do not attempt to dominate the hunting fields or deny residents access to OUR wildlife. I have had friends who guided and have been asked if I wanted a job as a guide, by Garry Vince, that German guy, "Goetz" who was in the Tatlow Mtn. area and also a mining co. exec. who was considering buying a concession in N.W.B.C.; I was not and am not interested and am now too bloody old, anyway.

I am absolutely committed to B.C. residents first, Canadian ownership of Canadian resources and NO foreign investment/ownership in the G/O industry; if some don't like this, well, carry on, I doubt that your lobbying will be any more effective than your attempts to denigrate me. You want respect, cooperation, friendship and a happy forum, try discussing issues rather than indulging in illiterate drivel. BTW, I have served on the LM exec of the BCWF and do everything I can to help their work for wildlife as I have for nearly 40 years.

[timber]

:D that was well put.

[willy442]

Kutenay,Kutenay,Kutenay; I see you also learned how to cut and paste, while spending all that time packing water up hill to wash your face, when a true bush man would of camped at the creek or known of a spring after spending so much time in the bush. Quess you were dedicated to learning how to spell though.

[kutenay]

Where have I used "cut and paste" in my post; this remark has as much validity as your previous attacks on me. You do not know me, have never met me and yet you can make false statements about me and stupid attempts to insult me; this is the behaviour of an expert bushman, Guide-Outfitter, pilot and wildlife manager??????

IF, your comprehension were not as limited as your 'net manners are non-existent, you might realize that I was, among my other duties, a "Lookoutman" for the respective forest services I mentioned; this made it mandatory for me to backpack my supplies, including water up to the mountaintops where Lookouts are located.

I also backpacked water to the many reforestation crews and other sivilculture crews I supervised as treating your fellow workers well tends to make the entire project, fire or training session more productive. This is analogous to posting on HBC, where courtesy, experience-based opinions and dialogue rather than attempts to mock others will produce harmony, learning and camaraderie, qualities that the shooting-hunting fraternity badly needs these days.

Camping beside the creek is not really a wise move in many areas, due to increased Grizzly presence, wind patterns and flooding; many very experienced bushmen, even those who are actually value formal education and can spell, know this and situate their camps accordingly.

[Walksalot]

Should a person be restricted to shooting one Grizzly Bear in a life time or should they be able to shoot as many as they get drawn for? The fact that most people do not eat the meat makes it a trophy only hunt so I lean toward one in a life time.
Personally I have no desire to shoot a Grizzly Bear other than in a self preservation scenario but I totally understand different strokes for different folks.

[Ozone]

I think that if the odds are more than 50/1 for anything they should think about stopping that indavidual for a while. Say 1-5 years the higher the odds the longer the wait. If theres a alot of whatever and its sustanable I say fill your boots. But thats just my thinking. I also have no desire to shoot a grizz.

[kutenay]

I tend toward the one per lifetime attitude and as long as this does not impact on resident's opportunities to hunt Grizzlies, I have no problem with G/O's being able to sell "trophies" to hunters from other places. I also tend toward this with respect to sheep and goats, but, I am not willing to see even one B.C. hunter's (or Canadian hunter's) opportunities reduced in any fashion to facilitate this in order to provide hunting/game for G-Os and foreign hunters.

I think that better hunting for all species is doable in B.C., but, it is the same old story of competing interests, apathetic residents, lack of funding for proper management and gross understaffing of our management agencies. The B.C.W.F. has done and is doing a lot of good, but, the government listens to the media manipulators as they reflect voting patterns and we hunters/anglers really don't matter.

Like you, killing a Grizzly or even Blackies doesn't interest me, I have skinned enough of them and prefer to stalk and watch them. But, given the numbers of bears here and the love some people have for hunting and eating them, I sure have no problems with it.

I would support a "non-guided" hunt by Yanks, for example, IF, we had sufficient C.Os on the ground to control it and IF they had to pay both a substantial tag fee and a substantial "trophy fee" upon a kill DIRECTLY into a wildlife management fund. Some may prefer to hunt guided while others might enjoy hunting Blackies on their own; as long as B.C. benefits from their hunt in actual $$$$$$, I consider this a workable plan.

[Gateholio]

Those that want to debate a topic, in a civil fashion, feel free.

If you boys want to keep on insulting each other, I'll just keep deleting.....:cool:

[timber]

well kutenay one day id like to sit down with you and have a coffee with you and shoot the s?it. you have a lot of old time bush no how that will be lost if we don't get out there and keep on it. I know we don't see eye to eye but the bush is the bush and we all live there, as much as we can any way. Shane