Legal as a Tri-Palm?

[Rock Doctor]

So, this is what I tipped over for a Moose this yr. Took me a while to finally figure out what it was he had on his head before I shot. I came to the conclusion that it is legal as a Tri-Palm as well as a Spike-Fork.
What do you think?
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o281/RockDocPhoto/2010%20Animals/IMG_0008.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o281/RockDocPhoto/2010%20Animals/IMG_0009.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o281/RockDocPhoto/2010%20Animals/IMG_0010.jpg


No Story to it, I happened to see him along a riverbank. I was lucky enough to get to within range of him, then I spent 10 min trying to figure out just what was going on with his antlers. Once I narrowed it down to 2 points on one side I let 'er rip. He never made a step.


RD

[The Dawg]

Hmmmm....

Definately wouldnt hesitate dropping him as a spike/fork, but would be a little 'gunshy' about calling him a tripalm.

Very close, but not enough for me to take that shot.

Be interesting to see what others think. And congrats :)

[Ambush]

I'd say you are right on both accounts, with the tripalm being the hard one. Easy enough to see on the hood of an Argo though.

Good job!

[talver]

I'd say you are right on both accounts, with the tripalm being the hard one. Easy enough to see on the hood of an Argo though.

Good job!

X2 i totally agree all i see is a Legal bull should be good eatting too

[Benthos]

pretty iffy as a tripalm imho.

specifically as a tripalm, i wouldn't pull the trigger.

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm not sure that 3rd point is even a point. Looks like it might be wider than it is long, throughout most of its length. I don't get an inch plus of length anywhere on it, without its width exceeding its length.

I'd dump him as a S/F only, and let him walk as a tri=palm.

[Rock Doctor]

So, after reviewing the definition, I may actually have to lay a tape measure on it to see for sure. Damn it looks CLOSE though.




Tripalm Bull - means a bull moose
having at least one antler with a brow palm
bearing three or more points (tines). The brow
palm is separated from the main palm by the
deepest antler bay. The deepest bay is the bay
whose vertex (deepest location) is the shortest
distance from the antler base, when measured
along the surface of the antler




RD

[wos]

legal both ways and the perfect size for eating:) doesn't get better than that

[boxhitch]

If all I saw was the large side, he would walk. Too tough to call what is the deepest bay. General configuration says three brows, but ...........

[kgs]

Tough call its one of those one way or the other things. congrats on the moose tho...:)

[boxhitch]

Good call
Only measure that mattters is one inch from the tip , the width cannot exceed one inch
I'm not sure that 3rd point is even a point. Looks like it might be wider than it is long, throughout most of its length. I don't get an inch plus of length anywhere on it, without its width exceeding its length.

I'd dump him as a S/F only, and let him walk as a tri=palm.

[Darksith]

very iffy as a tri. The lowest grove looks like it could be closest to the base, I wouldn't take that shot, but a wonderful SF

[elkdom]

ahhh?? you had to go kill a "challenged moose":?

did you get him near a Nuclear Reactor ??:confused:

[yama49]

That would b a tough call, on a tri. i would have let it go on a tri-palm

[leadpillproductions]

Tough one too close for me

[wildprotien]

Take it to a CO and get their opinion and let us know what the real result would of been as a tri ..... It would be good to know their call on the subject at hand.
Congrats on the moose.

[ratherbefishin]

good point-I'd like to see what a CO would call it...trouble is-if it was in the field and didn't have the other side broken off-what would it be?-tough enough to make a judgement call close up than when its alive and some distance away.Looks like that third point was broken or broomed and otherwise would have clearly been a third point. I wonder how many more like that were shot-then left?

My problem is this-supposing you shot that moose convinced it WAS a legal tripalm[assuming it DIDN'T have the other side broken off clearly making it a ''spike fork'']and you take it into the CO-and they decide it was NOT a legal tri-palm-NOW what?Are you charged and fined ?Can you ask for another opinion?situations like this are NOT so easy to make a judgement on-one person could say its legal-another illegal-and thats close up,with a tape measure...the interesting part is on one side-the broken off beam clearly makes it a legal ''spike fork''-yet on the other side-the broken off tip makes the third point questionable...

This is a prime example of why I hate these antler restrictions-too easy to end up breaking the law when you didn't intend to.Make it''any bull'' or nothing

[anethema]

Any bull would have been really nice for me this year actually.

Going for SF moose up in the general 'sunset main/highway' cross area and found some beautiful terrain.

Sure enough get in there, saw a cow and a calf, then a big nice bull. Antlers looks like I could barely have the arm reach to grab the ends of both.

Sat there watching him from 30-40 yards. He would walk a couple steps away, and i'd give a little half hearted moose call, then he'd stop. Repeat that a few times and eventually let him walk away. I've only been hunting a couple years now so this 'letting them walk away' thing is really tough!

Even without shooting was a great experience. Sure would have been a lot of meat in the freezer though.

[brad ferris]

So a concern I have is if a bull has a single browtine and his paddle is some how "broken" off does he then become a spike. and thus legal under a sf regulation.
I am not I'm anyway suggesting anything underhanded with this particular bull or hunter. Merely wondering if anyone else sees this as an issue.

[The Dawg]

So a concern I have is if a bull has a single browtine and his paddle is some how "broken" off does he then become a spike. and thus legal under a sf regulation.
I am not I'm anyway suggesting anything underhanded with this particular bull or hunter. Merely wondering if anyone else sees this as an issue.


I dont see a problem with it at all. If it was freshly broken off, I would be a little hesitant to shoot as CO could think that you did it.

But the regulations state 2 pt or less per side- it doesnt state whether or not it has to be 'naturally grown'.

With this example here, BOOM.

[brad ferris]

I'm not one to worry about how things appear to a c.o. Just concerned that this particular antller configuration can be manipulated after the fact in order to make it a legal bull. Not like glueing a 6th on an elk.

[moosinaround]

That would be meat in the freezer for me! As a spike fork though! If I seen it in a tri palm season I would let it walk just cause I have bushnell glass, and points appear smaller in Bushnell glass!!:wink: Now if it was Zeiss or Leupold I would have seen the actual "Bay" of the antler and would see that it does in fact meet the definition of the tri palm rule!!??Moosin

[The Dawg]

That would be meat in the freezer for me! As a spike fork though! If I seen it in a tri palm season I would let it walk just cause I have bushnell glass, and points appear smaller in Bushnell glass!!:wink: Now if it was Zeiss or Leupold I would have seen the actual "Bay" of the antler and would see that it does in fact meet the definition of the tri palm rule!!??Moosin


What about my Zeiss?! It was good enough to ID your bull last year, and the mulies ...but not for this one?! :)

[ratherbefishin]

heard of some guys coming up on a bull they were convinced was legal and knocking off the offending third point to make it a ''spike fork''
Personally,I'd like more information showing that the ''spike fork'' restriction was either neccesary-or working to preserve breeding populations.There far too many reports of hunters finding abandoned carcasses -and a dead bull is a dead bull.With hunter numbers in serious decline-I doubt very much hunting is much of a factor in moose mortality anyway-railways, vehicles, disease,predation and winter kill are a ''GOS''12 months a year.I need convincing these antler restrictions aren't just theories dreamed up by people who aren;t in the field.Winter fly overs give pretty good population estimates,and if the moose population can't stand a GOS in an area,go to LEH ,or allocate 1 bull every couple of years or on a shared hunt basis

[BiG Boar]

I'm not saying you did file off that left palm. But if you did, what kind of file works best? And how do you color in the "break" to make it look legit? Jk

[boxhitch]

Personally,I'd like more information showing that the ''spike fork'' restriction was either neccesary-or working to preserve breeding populations.Then get involved and talk the talk. Your ideas aren't something new. Learn about what is going on first hand. Many answers in previous threads on the subject, if you can sort out the chaff. Self-educate

With hunter numbers in serious decline........-
if the moose population can't stand a GOS in an area,go to LEH.....LEH kills hunters opps, and you suggest more ???

[ratherbefishin]

of course LEH kills hunter opps-but I'm not convinced the current antler restrictions are either valid or needed,and in fact may be resulting in more abandoned ''mistaken indentity''.I think if anything, the number of tags should be INCREASED under LEH on the grounds that if the system is WORKING-then there should be MORE moose to harvest.If its NOT working-then we need a diferent system or allocation.We finally got an ''any bull'' tag-after 5 years in an area known for HIGH moose densities-east of PG

[Fisher-Dude]

of course LEH kills hunter opps-but I'm not convinced the current antler restrictions are either valid or needed,and in fact may be resulting in more abandoned ''mistaken indentity''.I think if anything, the number of tags should be INCREASED under LEH on the grounds that if the system is WORKING-then there should be MORE moose to harvest

Does bull only harvest affect the number of moose much?

How many moose do we need?

What about predator control?

How many hunters will be left by the time we have "enough moose?"

[Rock Doctor]

I'm not sure that 3rd point is even a point. Looks like it might be wider than it is long, throughout most of its length. I don't get an inch plus of length anywhere on it, without its width exceeding its length.

I'd dump him as a S/F only, and let him walk as a tri=palm.

Now we're getting somewhere. I decided to go do some measureing:-D. It would appear as though none of those points on the right side are actually points, with the exception of the first, second and fifth. As for the left side, it is a spiker. So that means that this rack is a spike by 3 point, and if that fifth point was chiped of, that side would actually be a 2 point.
Getting stranger by the minute


ahhh?? you had to go kill a "challenged moose":?

did you get him near a Nuclear Reactor ??:confused:

If you had any idea how many similar comments I've had from friends........:confused:


Take it to a CO and get their opinion and let us know what the real result would of been as a tri ..... It would be good to know their call on the subject at hand.
Congrats on the moose.

Will do, but keep in mind that my answer back is still going to be one guys OPINION, even if he is a CO.



So a concern I have is if a bull has a single browtine and his paddle is some how "broken" off does he then become a spike. and thus legal under a sf regulation.
I am not I'm anyway suggesting anything underhanded with this particular bull or hunter. Merely wondering if anyone else sees this as an issue.

I see it as an issue, but to answer your question.....YES, it is now a SF if the paddle is busted off, and it now only has one point. Neither age or anything else has anything to do with it, if it has 2 points or less on one side, for whatever reason, then it is a SF. Unless it has NO points on one side (Example: busted right off at the skull), then it is classed as Antlerless on that side (according to our local CO)
Like this one that I passed up earlier this yr:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o281/RockDocPhoto/IMG_2161.jpg


I'm not one to worry about how things appear to a c.o. Just concerned that this particular antller configuration can be manipulated after the fact in order to make it a legal bull. Not like glueing a 6th on an elk.

As mentioned above, after doing some measuring, it looks as though if I was to bust off that 5th point on the right side, it would be legal as a SF on both sides.
Doesn't seem right though, and I think that a good CO would be able to tell if it was a fresh break.


I'm not saying you did file off that left palm. But if you did, what kind of file works best? And how do you color in the "break" to make it look legit? Jk

I would wonder if you even could do it. I've made a few antler knife handles in my time, and I don't think you can make tool marks look natural. I also don't think you could "color" it and make it look natural.

So, now what do you guys think about that right side being a 2 point IF that 5th point had been shorter, or broken off?

Glad I posted this, it's interesting

RD

[Rock Doctor]

I don't think you want to do that. I think as the bay is concerned it would be 3 on the brow , but as said before that point looks to wide at an inch. I think you would just get questioned about the broken side , not a hassel a guy wants to volunteer for. Throw the rack on the wood pile and enjoy the steaks.


I'm not concerned about it at all, I've already talked to the local CO about it, he just hasn't seen it yet.


RD

[Fisher-Dude]

So, now what do you guys think about that right side being a 2 point IF that 5th point had been shorter, or broken off?

Glad I posted this, it's interesting

RD

Nope. Paddle itself is a point, then the 2 long brows are two more, for a total of 3.

[boxhitch]

of course LEH kills hunter opps-but I'm not convinced the current antler restrictions are either valid or needed,and in fact may be resulting in more abandoned ''mistaken indentity''.I think if anything, the number of tags should be INCREASED under LEH on the grounds that if the system is WORKING-then there should be MORE moose to harvest.If its NOT working-then we need a diferent system or allocation.We finally got an ''any bull'' tag-after 5 years in an area known for HIGH moose densities-east of PG
So what do you suggest ??
spike/fork GOS gives lots of opportunities ,
LEH any bull takes out some of the older component,
pop. numbers cannot sustain an any bull gos
Hunters will F&%$ up no matter what the rules, though the number is small in the big picture, media will tell it different.
Cows are giving birth, calves are not surviving
Gov't doesn't have money for annual counts, Hunters dollars are going to aid Olympics
Its gone round and round before, what your new view ?

[boxhitch]

Paddle itself is a point,Thats a new twist. Good luck with that.

[Fisher-Dude]

Thats a new twist. Good luck with that.

It's the main beam. Main beam in an elk or deer is a point too. :wink:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

It's the main beam. Main beam in an elk or deer is a point too. :wink:

So if that is true this is a 6x5 elk??? Don't think so:?.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Den_Pics_006.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=12564&perpage=18&ppuser=1509)

SSS

[boxhitch]

It's the main beam. Main beam in an elk or deer is a point too. :wink:
I get your point, sort of, but don't think it fits the one inch rule.
If you were to find a nice old 35"er with one side missing and the other having all points broken off or worn down smooth, you could call it a spike but then the tine or point rule wouldn't apply.

And it would be one ugly moose.

[ratherbefishin]

Boxhitch-if ''management'' is working-then there should be MORE moose,especially when there are about 60% FEWER people hunting for them.
just because there is a GOS-or an LEH tag -doesn't mean 100% success-by any means,hunting is an OPPORTUNITY to harvest a moose,not a GUARANTEE.

My concern,among others is that antler restrictions-especially the ''tri-palm''rule have too much margin for error-and instead of preserving non qualifying bulls, may actually be contributing to mortality by mistaken identity,and a dead bull is a dead bull,no matter if its left in the bush or not or taken home to the freezer.you cannot the ignore the scenario that a hunter may kill and abandon a bull,then go on and kill another one.Had it been ''any bull'' he would have only taken the first one.
The calf season has some merit-not a lot of room for mistaken identity,and leaves the breeding population to continue.Even the spike fork has SOME merit-but as we have seen,the tri palm rule especially in situations like this one posted, makes field identification dificult,and given the mentality of some people who shoot first and look second, creates a potential increase of mortality.Identification theories are fine-in drawing on the regs ,a bit more dificult in the field at a distance with a animal in the bush and moving

A reasonable solution especially in areas that may not be able to sustain hunting pressure is for more shared opportunities-ie-one bull [any bull]among 2 or 3 hunters,or one bull[any bull] every other year.No mistaken identity mortality

[Fisher-Dude]

So if that is true this is a 6x5 elk??? Don't think so:?.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Den_Pics_006.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=12564&perpage=18&ppuser=1509)

SSS

No, because the 5th is considered the main beam right to its tip. You don't have a G5 on that side, if the busted normal "6th" tip isn't an inch.

[Fisher-Dude]

I get your point, sort of, but don't think it fits the one inch rule.
If you were to find a nice old 35"er with one side missing and the other having all points broken off or worn down smooth, you could call it a spike but then the tine or point rule wouldn't apply.

And it would be one ugly moose.



Tine or "Point" -

means a branch of an


antler which is longer than its breadth and is at

least 2.5 cm in length...




So, is the palm greater than 2.5 cm? Yes.
Is the palm longer than its breadth? Yes.
Is the palm a branch of the antler? Yes.
Ipso facto, you have a point.

[Glenny]

Had the kinda the same tricky decision to pull the trigger on this one. (not as a tri palm of course)Glad I did.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=11054&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=10622

[Ride Red]

Just cruizin the site and came across this from the past season. I've been hunting a long time now all over this province. I've definitely come across my share of odd antler configurations to say the least. I struggle with some of the justification in this post.
Not too many years ago, the spike fork season was called "immature bull season" or look at the pictures in your regulations now and you can clearly see a young bull moose. I'm really curious how any person could say this is a immature moose when clearly its not. At some point this bulls palm was broken off but there is still a palm on the other side clearly making this a mature bull moose. As far as a tri-palm the vertex is not much more than a hollow and I would not class this as a tri-palm either. This is a poor example for all the new hunters cruizin this site. Justification is just that, convincing yourself that what you have done is right, even though your conscience tells you your not. We need to set the very best of examples for everyone to see. The new hunters look to all the experienced hunters for the rights and wrongs. Everyone will have a questionable experience in their hunting carrer. If in doubt, don't shoot. It's a very simple moto that I have taught my boys. For all you new hunters out there or old for that matter, don't be afraid to sit down and read the regulations from cover to cover. Every year there are some sort of changes, no matter how small, we owe it to the sport we so dearly love to do the right thing. Spend some time reading, you'll be much more confident out there when you have the knowledge.
Ride Red.

[Buck TraX]

As a fairly new hunter I would shoot as s/f, would let walk as tri just too close for my liking and or experience. Facing this particular moose in the field with a s/f season LEGAL BANG!

Nice work good eats!

[Ride Red]

Then you should be charged as a poacher!!!

[pnbrock]

good to go as s/f ,as a tri not so sure the bays look to be same so which is the last bay is open for trouble .not a tri inmo but a good eating moose im sure.

[Gun Dog]

Just cruizin the site and came across this from the past season. I've been hunting a long time now all over this province. I've definitely come across my share of odd antler configurations to say the least. I struggle with some of the justification in this post.
Not too many years ago, the spike fork season was called "immature bull season" or look at the pictures in your regulations now and you can clearly see a young bull moose. I'm really curious how any person could say this is a immature moose when clearly its not. While the intent of the regulations is to separate immature and mature bulls for harvesting they (the Man) knew that you needed an unambiguous way to identify the two groups. It works out most of the time and the occasional strangeness doesn't matter in the scheme of things. It's the same for ANTLERED and ANTLERLESS for deer instead of bucks and does. A small percentage of does have antlers and some young bucks don't.

[Buck TraX]

Then you should be charged as a poacher!!!
If thats not a s/f bull im hunting leh any bull ONLY!

[Steeleco]

Ride Red, the reg's no longer refer to moose in this class a "immature" it very clearly calls them "Spike Fork"


Moose - Spike-fork Bull - means a bull
moose having no more than two tines on one
antler.

Maybe the intent of the regulation is to only shoot immature animals, but the current legal term has nothing to do with the age of the animal, only the antler formation. It's possible it's in place to cull out any genetically inferior animals?

The more I read these regulations, the more I think the only person(s) that TRULY understand them is the same person(s) that wrote them.

As per the law of the day, I'd shoot him as a SF in a heart beat, as a Tripalm, definitely not. To much doubt in my mind.

[Buck TraX]

Red ride try to explain to us new hunters/moose poachers whom have never read the old regs ,and only have current copy?

[Ride Red]

Steelco,
I do understand what it says, so maybe you can explain why they have a 10 point bull ( mature in picture ), a tri-palm bull ( mature in picture ) and a spike fork ( immature or young bull in the picture ). Now tell me where this so-called spike fork one side - mature bull other side fits in these classifications ????????

[yama49]

Then you should be charged as a poacher!!!

Thats a pretty BOLD statment, last time i checked you didnt make the regs. Its legal using the regs, so thats what matters here, not what you think is right or wrong. I do agree its not immature, but it is legal, so it is not poaching.....:-?

[Buck TraX]

After looking at the diagram in the regs under s/f BULL the top left picture is pretty darn close imo of the rack in question.

[bridger]

not even close on the tri palm in my opinion. works for spike fork tho

[squeege]

Then you should be charged as a poacher!!!


Bold statement to say the least. Heres an example: A legal bull moose is shot; does not have tri palm but has 9 points on one side and 10 on the other that all meets the requirments for a point as stipulated in the regs. Now somehow one of the points get broken off during hauling out the moose on a quad, so now the moose is not legal by definition in the regs. Guy gets stopped by the CO and is told that the moose is not legal. Guy pleads his case but unless the guys can find the broken off point he is up sugar creek without a stirstick. So this works the other way too. If the bull moose breaks his antler during a fight or what have you, and becomes a spike or in this case a fork then as the CO see's it, it is legal. If you decide not to shoot then so be it but I think that a person that shoots this type of bull moose knows his regulations......

I had a buddy shoot a bull this year near Chetwynd that was 7 points on one side and a spike on the other. Still is legal. The questions come into effect when the antler looks like a fresh break, but thats another story.

[Steeleco]

Steelco,
I do understand what it says, so maybe you can explain why they have a 10 point bull ( mature in picture ), a tri-palm bull ( mature in picture ) and a spike fork ( immature or young bull in the picture ). Now tell me where this so-called spike fork one side - mature bull other side fits in these classifications ????????

This is where I would refer to my earlier comment "only the guy that wrote the reg's, knows the reg's"

I still stand that the rule is antler bases and not age based.

In the fall of 09 I hunted a bull moose that had a rack much like the one in the original picture. Yet it's other antler was that of a young bull and only showing a youthful spike fork. Perfectly legal as per the rules of today.

Had I been able to seal the deal, you'd have seen his picture on the site too.

[Ride Red]

Squeege wrote:
Bold statement to say the least. Heres an example: A legal bull moose is shot; does not have tri palm but has 9 points on one side and 10 on the other that all meets the requirments for a point as stipulated in the regs. Now somehow one of the points get broken off during hauling out the moose on a quad, so now the moose is not legal by definition in the regs. Guy gets stopped by the CO and is told that the moose is not legal. Guy pleads his case but unless the guys can find the broken off point he is up sugar creek without a stirstick. So this works the other way too. If the bull moose breaks his antler during a fight or what have you, and becomes a spike or in this case a fork then as the CO see's it, it is legal. If you decide not to shoot then so be it but I think that a person that shoots this type of bull moose knows his regulations......

I had a buddy shoot a bull this year near Chetwynd that was 7 points on one side and a spike on the other. Still is legal. The questions come into effect when the antler looks like a fresh break, but thats another story.
__________________
So, you must be a CO making this statement??? It would be really interesting for a CO to actually come on this site and clear this up. I'm very curious what they would deem correct. Until then, I personally wouldn't shoot that moose in either of those classifications.

[Singleshotneeded]

I think it's close enough that if a game warden stopped you he'd be fine with it...I mean geez, you practically have to be a lawdog to keep up with all the picky bloody regulations these days...used to be so much easier in the old days! One bull moose per year, one bull elk, two bucks, etc...sigh!

[Caveman]

As a fairly new hunter I would shoot as s/f, would let walk as tri just too close for my liking and or experience. Facing this particular moose in the field with a s/f season LEGAL BANG!

Nice work good eats!


Red ride try to explain to us new hunters/moose poachers whom have never read the old regs ,and only have current copy?

You would have made the correct/legal decision and there's really nothing to explain. The new regs are all you need to know as they are the new rules to play by. If you know them, you're golden.

[Caveman]

I had a buddy shoot a bull this year near Chetwynd that was 7 points on one side and a spike on the other. Still is legal. The questions come into effect when the antler looks like a fresh break, but thats another story.

Better not be any saw or knife marks on that break. No explaining that away!

[squeege]

Better not be any saw or knife marks on that break. No explaining that away!


I prefer a dremel makes a way smoother point..:wink:

[Buck TraX]

From what ive read on some old post on here, the COs dont have a clue just there own inturpitaion on the regs,so might just depend on which one you talk to or get checked by.

[deer nut]

I do not agree that he is a tripalm.

[Caveman]

From what ive read on some old post on here, the COs dont have a clue just there own inturpitaion on the regs,so might just depend on which one you talk to or get checked by.

You're exactly right! I would give the CO a little credit for understanding the regs, but as far as a legal opinion, leave that the law makers, as the CO is only following his instinct or applying his interpretation of the regs. Chances are in most cases he will be correct, but he would not be the final word. The trick is to know them as well as you can to keep yourself away from the hassel of having the CO charge you based on his interpretation

[ThinAir]

I'd be nervous if I got pulled over in a game check with that one (as a tri-palm)

I'd shoot as a spike though...

[Buck TraX]

[quote=Caveman;835215] I would give the CO a little credit for understanding the regs

Yeah ,just reread that part sorry dident mean to be that harsh oops

[Caveman]

I'd be nervous if I got pulled over in a game check with that one (as a tri-palm)

As a tri-palm you wouldn't have to worry about making that choice again for several years, it would be made for you, and you'd have some spare time on your hands when you would normally be hunting


I'd shoot as a spike though...

As a spike I believe you'd be fine

[Caveman]

[quote=Caveman;835215] I would give the CO a little credit for understanding the regs

Yeah ,just reread that part sorry dident mean to be that harsh oops

As other threads have shown you can always ask the questions of the law makers to clarify the regs. They do take the time to respond. I've had a couple. The spike/fork definition was one of them. Maybe a followup would prove to be educational in this example to hear their thoughts

Hello Greg,

Thank you for your email dated October 29, 2008, regarding the distinction between calf and spike-fork moose. Your inquiry has been forwarded to me for response.

It is apparent by reading the online forum that clarification of this component of the annual hunting and trapping synopsis is required. Ministry of Environment staff are aware of the issue, and will be taking steps to develop a more coherent definition for the 2009-2010 hunting and trapping synopsis.

The following provides some background on the development of a spike-fork moose season. This may give you an idea as to the direction the Fish and Wildlife Branch will go in clarification of "what is legal to harvest during a spike-fork bull moose season?".

Bull moose are a highly desired big game species. With some exceptions, any bull GOS seasons are not sustainable in BC due to high hunter demand.
When conservation becomes a concern (i.e. when demand exceeds supply), various regulations may be implemented to control the bull harvest within sustainable limits.
LEH is one mechanism to control the bull harvest, but because it limits hunter participation, it is generally least favoured by hunters.
Other mechanisms for controlling the bull harvest are antler point regulations during the GOS. Currently BC provides 3 types of antler regulations: spike-fork bull, tripalm bull and 10 point bull.
Of the 3 regulations, the spike-fork bull is most commonly used. This is because it focuses the harvest on immature (yearling) bulls.
A spike-fork moose means a bull moose having no more than two tines on one antler (see page 4 of the 2008-09 Hunting and Trapping Synopsis). A tine if defined as a branch of an antler that is at least 2.5 cm (1 inch) in length
Studies have shown that generally no more than 50% of yearling bulls have the spike-fork antler configuration. Thus, it is considered a safe regulation because it ensures that enough yearling bulls will survive the hunting season to become mature bulls.
Occasionally, a male calf moose may be observed during the fall with small "button" antlers caused by rubbing the skin and hair off the forehead. The spike-fork definition was not intended to include these calves.
Thank you for bringing this issue to the attention of the Ministry.

Sincerely,
Stephen MacIver
Senior Wildlife Regulations Officer
Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Environment
Phone (250) 387-9767
Fax (250) 387-0239
Email: stephen.maciver@gov.bc.ca

The one interesting point from this is the piece I highlighted. It was not the intent, but would it be deemed illegal if you shot one. Food for thought. Hopefully they address it this year!

[Ride Red]

From Caveman's original previous post:
Hello Greg,

Thank you for your email dated October 29, 2008, regarding the distinction between calf and spike-fork moose. Your inquiry has been forwarded to me for response.

It is apparent by reading the online forum that clarification of this component of the annual hunting and trapping synopsis is required. Ministry of Environment staff are aware of the issue, and will be taking steps to develop a more coherent definition for the 2009-2010 hunting and trapping synopsis.

The following provides some background on the development of a spike-fork moose season. This may give you an idea as to the direction the Fish and Wildlife Branch will go in clarification of "what is legal to harvest during a spike-fork bull moose season?".

Bull moose are a highly desired big game species. With some exceptions, any bull GOS seasons are not sustainable in BC due to high hunter demand.
When conservation becomes a concern (i.e. when demand exceeds supply), various regulations may be implemented to control the bull harvest within sustainable limits.
LEH is one mechanism to control the bull harvest, but because it limits hunter participation, it is generally least favoured by hunters.
Other mechanisms for controlling the bull harvest are antler point regulations during the GOS. Currently BC provides 3 types of antler regulations: spike-fork bull, tripalm bull and 10 point bull.
Of the 3 regulations, the spike-fork bull is most commonly used. This is because it focuses the harvest on immature (yearling) bulls.
A spike-fork moose means a bull moose having no more than two tines on one antler (see page 4 of the 2008-09 Hunting and Trapping Synopsis). A tine if defined as a branch of an antler that is at least 2.5 cm (1 inch) in length
Studies have shown that generally no more than 50% of yearling bulls have the spike-fork antler configuration. Thus, it is considered a safe regulation because it ensures that enough yearling bulls will survive the hunting season to become mature bulls.
Occasionally, a male calf moose may be observed during the fall with small "button" antlers caused by rubbing the skin and hair off the forehead. The spike-fork definition was not intended to include these calves.
Thank you for bringing this issue to the attention of the Ministry.

Sincerely,
Stephen MacIver
Senior Wildlife Regulations Officer
Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Environment
Phone (250) 387-9767
Fax (250) 387-0239
Email: stephen.maciver@gov.bc.ca

Now, are any of you going to shoot this same bull as a spike fork????????????

[Caveman]

From Caveman's original previous post:
Hello Greg,

Thank you for your email dated October 29, 2008, regarding the distinction between calf and spike-fork moose. Your inquiry has been forwarded to me for response.

It is apparent by reading the online forum that clarification of this component of the annual hunting and trapping synopsis is required. Ministry of Environment staff are aware of the issue, and will be taking steps to develop a more coherent definition for the 2009-2010 hunting and trapping synopsis.

The following provides some background on the development of a spike-fork moose season. This may give you an idea as to the direction the Fish and Wildlife Branch will go in clarification of "what is legal to harvest during a spike-fork bull moose season?".

Bull moose are a highly desired big game species. With some exceptions, any bull GOS seasons are not sustainable in BC due to high hunter demand.
When conservation becomes a concern (i.e. when demand exceeds supply), various regulations may be implemented to control the bull harvest within sustainable limits.
LEH is one mechanism to control the bull harvest, but because it limits hunter participation, it is generally least favoured by hunters.
Other mechanisms for controlling the bull harvest are antler point regulations during the GOS. Currently BC provides 3 types of antler regulations: spike-fork bull, tripalm bull and 10 point bull.
Of the 3 regulations, the spike-fork bull is most commonly used. This is because it focuses the harvest on immature (yearling) bulls.
A spike-fork moose means a bull moose having no more than two tines on one antler (see page 4 of the 2008-09 Hunting and Trapping Synopsis). A tine if defined as a branch of an antler that is at least 2.5 cm (1 inch) in length
Studies have shown that generally no more than 50% of yearling bulls have the spike-fork antler configuration. Thus, it is considered a safe regulation because it ensures that enough yearling bulls will survive the hunting season to become mature bulls.
Occasionally, a male calf moose may be observed during the fall with small "button" antlers caused by rubbing the skin and hair off the forehead. The spike-fork definition was not intended to include these calves.
Thank you for bringing this issue to the attention of the Ministry.

Sincerely,
Stephen MacIver
Senior Wildlife Regulations Officer
Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Environment
Phone (250) 387-9767
Fax (250) 387-0239
Email: stephen.maciver@gov.bc.ca

Now, are any of you going to shoot this same bull as a spike fork????????????

I also had the conversation about the mature bull with a damaged or deformed horn formation with another person from the F&W Branch and they said these animals were not the intent of the definition, but would be deemed legal unless mis-doings were suspected. This is why the term immature was removed from the regs as a mature bull with a spike fork horn configuration could be found.

[squeege]

From Caveman's original previous post:
Hello Greg,

Thank you for your email dated October 29, 2008, regarding the distinction between calf and spike-fork moose. Your inquiry has been forwarded to me for response.

It is apparent by reading the online forum that clarification of this component of the annual hunting and trapping synopsis is required. Ministry of Environment staff are aware of the issue, and will be taking steps to develop a more coherent definition for the 2009-2010 hunting and trapping synopsis.

The following provides some background on the development of a spike-fork moose season. This may give you an idea as to the direction the Fish and Wildlife Branch will go in clarification of "what is legal to harvest during a spike-fork bull moose season?".

Bull moose are a highly desired big game species. With some exceptions, any bull GOS seasons are not sustainable in BC due to high hunter demand.
When conservation becomes a concern (i.e. when demand exceeds supply), various regulations may be implemented to control the bull harvest within sustainable limits.
LEH is one mechanism to control the bull harvest, but because it limits hunter participation, it is generally least favoured by hunters.
Other mechanisms for controlling the bull harvest are antler point regulations during the GOS. Currently BC provides 3 types of antler regulations: spike-fork bull, tripalm bull and 10 point bull.
Of the 3 regulations, the spike-fork bull is most commonly used. This is because it focuses the harvest on immature (yearling) bulls.
A spike-fork moose means a bull moose having no more than two tines on one antler (see page 4 of the 2008-09 Hunting and Trapping Synopsis). A tine if defined as a branch of an antler that is at least 2.5 cm (1 inch) in length
Studies have shown that generally no more than 50% of yearling bulls have the spike-fork antler configuration. Thus, it is considered a safe regulation because it ensures that enough yearling bulls will survive the hunting season to become mature bulls.
Occasionally, a male calf moose may be observed during the fall with small "button" antlers caused by rubbing the skin and hair off the forehead. The spike-fork definition was not intended to include these calves.
Thank you for bringing this issue to the attention of the Ministry.

Sincerely,
Stephen MacIver
Senior Wildlife Regulations Officer
Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Environment
Phone (250) 387-9767
Fax (250) 387-0239
Email: stephen.maciver@gov.bc.ca

Now, are any of you going to shoot this same bull as a spike fork????????????


I would. The regs are resticted to antler configuration (spike / fork) not age (immature).

[hunter1947]

I would like to know where the management draws the line on where the starting line would be on the brow palm to the main beam antler does the regs say that there has to be a certain length between the brow Palm and the main antler ??? :confused:.. looking at the picture to me it looks like a short gap where the vertex location is the third point up from the bottom there for making the bottom 3 points a brow palm ???? ...

If I saw this bull and wanted to shoot it I would identifying this bull by its left spike antler not the right palmed antler to me there is not much of a palm on that right antler if you can call it a palm ???..

[Jehiah]

I have to agree with hunter1947 regarding the palm - wouldnt the most prominent point (1st) develop into the palm while the rest would fold back and be the paddle?
As for the whole immature/yearling bull conversation - I would wager that the incedence of spar patterns resulting in spike fork antlers on a mature bull are essentially negligible compared to the "intended" immi. On that note, if a mature bull was to snap off to a 2 point he would likely no longer be a part of the breed stock so this "hunter's loophole" is still ethical

[fearnodeer]

Interesting at the least.

[CanuckShooter]

I'd be nervous if I got pulled over in a game check with that one (as a tri-palm)

I'd shoot as a spike though...


I think you'd be a little more than nervous if you got pulled over with that tri-palm in your truck.....I think you'd be charged.

IMO~shoot as 'spike fork'...do not shoot as 'tri-palm'.

[M.Dean]

Your eating moose Steaks and Roasts, lots of us aren't! Congrats on a Legal Bull!

[ThinAir]

I think you'd be a little more than nervous if you got pulled over with that tri-palm in your truck.....I think you'd be charged.

IMO~shoot as 'spike fork'...do not shoot as 'tri-palm'.



Yes of course....I was actually implying that sarcastically.:)

I think the "vertex of the deepest bay" according to the regs, is not fully there...(or at least prominent enough for me to shoot)
Then there's the fact that the tines are not legal...

[Polonez]

This thread is great.. but also confused me some. I was always under the impression that both antlers had to be 2 points or less to constitute a spike fork??? this thread has now confused me right before my hunting trip this friday in tripalm/SF territory lol ..... Can everyone say for certain that it is only one side that needs to be 2 points or less.
For 10 point bull and Tripalm it distinctly specifies that :



Moose

- Tripalm Bull- means a bull moose

having at least one antler with a brow palm
bearing three or more points (tines).


Moose- 10 Point Bull - means a bull moose
having at least one antler with a minimum of
ten points (tines), including the tines on the
brow palm


Moose - Spike-fork Bull - means a bull
moose having no more than two tines on one
antler. ( I always considered that to be on each antler) ???????

This is where my confusion lies ...

[bighornbob]

This thread is great.. but also confused me some. I was always under the impression that both antlers had to be 2 points or less to constitute a spike fork??? this thread has now confused me right before my hunting trip this friday in tripalm/SF territory lol ..... Can everyone say for certain that it is only one side that needs to be 2 points or less.
For 10 point bull and Tripalm it distinctly specifies that :



Moose

- Tripalm Bull- means a bull moose

having at least one antler with a brow palm
bearing three or more points (tines).


Moose- 10 Point Bull - means a bull moose
having at least one antler with a minimum of
ten points (tines), including the tines on the
brow palm


Moose - Spike-fork Bull - means a bull
moose having no more than two tines on one
antler. ( I always considered that to be on each antler) ???????

This is where my confusion lies ...




No its only on one antler. So the moose could be a 2x5 and be perfectly legal.

BHB

[Mikey Rafiki]

Or a 1 x 17

[Glenny]

I pulled the trigger on something similar to that as a spike/fork, its legal in that regard. Pretty sure that's a legal tri palm too.

[ravensfoot]

Good thing you took him out of the Gene pool.