3-20 moose story

[JAFA]

In 3-20 yesterday with my daughter. We drove, walked and still hunted, saw nearly Nada. Left BBY at 3:30 am , got back at 11:45 pm. Long day.

7th time out and very little seen, nothing on the ground.
But this is not the point of this thread, read on.

Coming out after dark, I see a pick-up down a little spur, see a fella in the back and something told me to stop and inquire, so I did. I asked him if he got one, and when he replied he did , asked if he needed help, gratefully he said yes, so we spun the Colorado around and Emily and I hopped out to assist.

The whole family was there, Dad (Caucasian)was in the back, Mom red haired and in her mid 30's, young teen son and little guy (6) plus... curiously "grandpa" a native in his 60's. ( there is a point coming read on)

So I am assuming we are about to see a Muley, asked where it was... turns out to be piled up about 70' down the bank off the road. I mention I have a 100' of rope and get the roll from my truck.

Coming back to help I ask how many points the buck is only to find it ain't a deer but a moose. Spike are open there so I assume as I am laying the rope down to the animal that I am about to see a nice young bull.

On the way down the bank I smell the slight but pungent smell of weed... not impressed about this Emily is with me (kinda like taking her to the local park in Vancouver), but continue on to the animal.

I am surprised to find a big cow, gutted and headless, I comment wow you had a tag? Grandpa said "yep sure do the best kind, perma tag, I am native"... he was.

Fair enough, I am no expert on the native rights for moose hunting, so I help them tie her up and we pull the cow to the road. All the time though I am trying to figure this out, how, is this a Caucasian family with a Native grand pa? Is it my business to press the issue? Couple minutes later we lift her into the back of the pickup. Tight fit but we made it.

They told me there was a big calf with this cow...it ran off, the cow was also pregnant with next years calf. This one harvest took a toll, I think the calf won't make it, hard winter coming, then there is the fetus...

Turns out to be a nice family and obviously they are glad for the meat. The 6 year old reminded me of the young boy from "Oh brother where art thou" The one that drove the truck from the barn using blocks on the peddles, he was a hoot! ... but I digress...

While Grandpa did not come out and volunteer information on his relationship, he said one comment about "loving to hunt and help families get their meat". Several hours later on the highway home the potential of his comment dawned on me. Do people ask natives to get game outside of the rules? Could this be what I stumbled across, and helped load in the truck? Why did I not think to write down the license # of their truck? Must have been the 21 hour day I was working on.

Can Native hunters can take what they want and where they want, and do not have to cut a tag or report the harvest... how can we plan the harvests for future years?

Anyhow, let me know if I was out of line to help load their Moose, or if this is just a normal aspect of hunting that as a new hunter I am unaware.

Please note the complete lack of racial tension in this post,( would like to keep it this way if possible) I am just communicating what happened and asking for feedback.

Thanks Jim.

[uraarchr]

I spoke with a native guy recently.He said that you could go up to near 100 mile (or slightly north ) and "get" a moose with the natives for $1200 bucks.sounds like theres a lot of people takin em up on it.

[Gunsmoke]

Jim;

Sounds real fishy to me and you are right in questioning what you experienced; I would also.

Dropping a pregnant cow in an area that does not have an open cow/calf season at the time sounds real bad.

My personal opinion of the situation as described....."legalized" poaching.

These are not hunters.

I hope your daughter was not bothered by the situation.

Good luck on the rest of your hunting season.

Gunsmoke

[cavebear]

First I would like to thank you for your very well worded write up.

First nations people in canada do have the right to hunt all year round in their traditional territory. For sustance.

It is also very hard to tell someones nationality by looks, I have some native friends that are whiter than i am.

I would have done the same as you and helped.

However it is always wise to record time date place license plate numbers and a brief discription of those involved to cover your own butt, No matter who or what the story is.

There are good and bad hunters and ethicaly challenged ones of all nationalities.

PS obvisouly if you know its illegal record info from a distance and do not get involved.

[afors]

From page 7 of the regs

"Indians who are residents of BC and wish to hunt outside their traditionally-used areas must do so in accordance with the Hunting Regulations.This includes making application for a LEH authorization via the LEH draw."

So as long as this was "grandpa's" traditional hunting area he is probably within his rights to take a moose for himself, (so long as it isn't protected).

"Any hunting of wildlife species for sale or barter, in whole or in part, is not legal, except as authorized by regulation or where there is a demonstrated aboriginal or treaty right to do so."

[boxhitch]

Would have been fun to hear what the 6 yr old would say when asked
'who shot the moose ?'
Myself, I would have left as soon as I realized what was on the ground.

[betteroffishing]

Would have been fun to hear what the 6 yr old would say when asked
'who shot the moose ?'
Myself, I would have left as soon as I realized what was on the ground.


me too , not judging your actions , just saying...

[curt]

This situation is not a new was happening in Burns Lake some yrs ago too and very likely many other areas. The sad part is the dirt bags supporting this crap are the problem. If you can offord 1200$ for a moose then buy a farm raised cow for less. 1200$ for a moose better come with a happy ending too!!

[Jelvis]

Remember if you use this as an excuse as to your limited hunting for moose and " There all gone attitude. " You will be the first to be scratched off hunting not grandpa so think b4 saying these things because most people back aboriginal sustainance gathering already world wide and hunters should not back themselves into corners when painting Status with a wide brush .. Status Indians who are real btw.
Jel .. Non-Status will be cut -back first so be careful the doubt and wondering about something you know very little about imho leave it alone or on PM's or phone your local INAC ..or BC Union of Indian Chiefs or MOE.

[curt]

"Leave it alone" I think that is the government's Mission statement on these issue's BA HA HA HA!!!!

[mijinkal]

SO far this thread is staying civil. Let's hope it stays that way guys.
I know its hard to judge the situation from my chair, but that's what we do here on the internets. I don't know if I would have helped out the guys after seeing what they did. There's a lot of questionable stuff going on there. But, it is harder to walk away from the situation when you're already helping out friendly people that just might be poachers. Good on ya for helping out a fellow hunter, but I'd record and report as well next time,

[bmw_hockey]

1. thanks for being very careful how you write about us natives,
2. I am native, however my wife is caucasion and our 4 beutiful kids appear to be quite white. so it is possible they are related.
- if this is the case it was all legal, you are allowed to help retrieve the game, drive, etc, NOT ALLOLWED to Flush or Shoot the animal.
( I am very aginst paying 1200, or any amount to take someone out )
I would have been upset with the Drugs, I myself dont do drugs or Drink after I accepted Jesus as my Savior.
- natives are allowed to share meat with other natives, family, or people who live in the same house.

I personally would have not shot the cow if it had a calf, I would either pass on it, or shoot the calf only. but unfortunitily with the Cow shot, the calf will not make it.

you are very nice to help, and good job in questioning the issue. My gut feeling is they are related, escpesially when the young child is calling him Grandpa.

[Gateholio]

If it is indeed what you suspect, it's clearly an abuse of the system. Not that I am surprised, as there are many abusers out there....

[johnk]

Not wanting to comment on the thread but I feel compelled to ask the experts here. Not being a master of veterinary science, is it possible for a fetus to form this quickly? Wondering how, at the end of October, someone could tell a cow moose was "with child"?

[bmw_hockey]

Good Point Johnk! that doesnt make any sense,

[Matty_ola]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when you say "traditionally-used areas" Where and how is one supposed to define that? Am I to understand that they can hunt wherever they like without regulation? Or are they only allowed to hunt without restrictions on "Indian band reserves" Being as the area you describe is not reserve, how can they take game that is not part of the GOS?

Sounds like the statement "traditionally-used areas" Needs to be defined a little better.

[JAFA]

Clarification on a couple of points...


1. thanks for being very careful how you write about us natives,


you are very nice to help, and good job in questioning the issue. My gut feeling is they are related, escpesially when the young child is calling him Grandpa.

"Grandpa" is my term, no one called him that, I should have gone with "older native gent" sorry if this caused confusion. But in hindsite they acted as a family unit, can't explain why I say this, just a general feeling.



Not wanting to comment on the thread but I feel compelled to ask the experts here. Not being a master of veterinary science, is it possible for a fetus to form this quickly? Wondering how, at the end of October, someone could tell a cow moose was "with child"?

General discussion around the gut pile was about the fetus, I did not want to focus Emily's attention on the "baby moose" so I did not inspect and therefore can only go on what I heard them discuss. They were commenting on how large it was.

hope this helps to clarify
Jim.

[pnbrock]

i would have walked aswell ,ill be no part of that kind of so called hunting.

[CanuckShooter]

I spoke with a native guy recently.He said that you could go up to near 100 mile (or slightly north ) and "get" a moose with the natives for $1200 bucks.sounds like theres a lot of people takin em up on it.


I was told recently by an Italian fellow that he was paying a guide $700 for a cow moose tag....would bet there are lots of people taking them up on that deal?

[Laurence_Erickson]

I personally disagree with these rights they choose to take part in . I however would probably given them hand aswell. I just wish they (being the stewards of the land) would look at the destruction they do the moose population by killing cows .In tenyrs that cow could possibly have tne calves if 50 % are cow calves how many moose are they killing with one bullet ???????? NOT A FAN OF KILLING GIRLS ! My 2 cents :)

[Jelvis]

Cows and calves being shot all over now but hey it's leh and we need to see where this goes down the road a ways the MOE is pretty good in BC.
I trust our men and women on the job and will continue to support all wildlife initiatives by our trained staff in BC.
Jel .. Put those hands together for our BC MOE and give them a thumbs up ..

[bmw_hockey]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when you say "traditionally-used areas" Where and how is one supposed to define that? Am I to understand that they can hunt wherever they like without regulation? Or are they only allowed to hunt without restrictions on "Indian band reserves" Being as the area you describe is not reserve, how can they take game that is not part of the GOS?

Sounds like the statement "traditionally-used areas" Needs to be defined a little better.

we are given traditional hunting areas which in some cases are large, i believe mine goes from squamish to far end of harrison to yale/spuzzum area to coquehalla to sunday summit. after that I must comply with all the Tag Regulations, in many other provinces I can go and hunt as if in my territory, like alberta etc,

I am thankful for this Blessing for it feeds my family, I know many people on this site believe its wrong, and your free to feel that way, but I have great respect for my fellow hunters and wish a successful hunt for you all

[Mooseter]

I agree that MOE does a good job given the poor quality tools they are given. However the crown is very reluctant to go to court with FNs so not many convictions happen.


They are not allowed to hunt freely anywhere but their traditional territory and many bands do not give permission to other FNs but some use the status card and get away with a lot when questioned by authorities.

Its time those bands start working with MOE to stop the bad practices and preserve the resource like they spout.

They are allowed to kill game in any lawful open season anywhere in BC without a tag or license except for LEH.

This would be acceptable except they can kill as many animals as they want and thus the easy practice of selling happens.

[Islandeer]

Lots of solid and respectful posts.
To fairly comment on the ethics of this post for sure the whole story with all the facts is required. Anything less is hearsay.

So who knows this could be one of those within the rules things that has potential to be a feel good story. The alternative is very obvious.

[bmw_hockey]

I agree that MOE does a good job given the poor quality tools they are given. However the crown is very reluctant to go to court with FNs so not many convictions happen.


They are not allowed to hunt freely anywhere but their traditional territory and many bands do not give permission to other FNs but some use the status card and get away with a lot when questioned by authorities.

Its time those bands start working with MOE to stop the bad practices and preserve the resource like they spout.

They are allowed to kill game in any lawful open season anywhere in BC without a tag or license except for LEH.

This would be acceptable except they can kill as many animals as they want and thus the easy practice of selling happens.



It makes me sick that there are Natives that kind of paint all of us with the same brush, but no amount of money is worth it, in my teenage years I worked selling fish illegally but got out of it because I knew it was wrong and did not want something like that ruin any chance of getting a decent Job.
I have had this past year a Taxi Driver(needed for my Job) ask to pay me for meat, without hesitation I said no, privilages are not to be wasted and I hope those that break or bend the law are stopped because native or Caucasion we dont need to supply the Anti hunters any more ammo, because more and more hunting is in the public eye something they want banned.

I remember a TED Nugent hunting Video that he said we should spend less time fighting our fellow hunters on personal preference, personal ethics etc and focus on keeping all our rights to harvest meat and trophies for generartions to come

should the Lord Tarry.

[walks with deer]

crazy storie

[tigrr]

I bumped into the same thing a few years back. Father and son native guys were hunting and I heard the shot so I went to investigate. We had met earlier and they said they were looking for a bull moose. So when I caught up to them I asked what did you shoot? They sheepishly didn't answer right away. When they did finally answer that they shot a cow, I was pissed and tore off on my atv. After I calmed down I went back to help retrieve the cow because it was dead already. The 70 year old dad held the legs while the son did the work. We loaded it whole minus the guts into their truck. I laid it on pretty thick that this cow would have increased the moose population by 10 or more animals in the next 10 years.
I hope the forestry de-activates more roads. Save a few cow moose.

[Pauly]

I bumped into the same thing a few years back. Father and son native guys were hunting and I heard the shot so I went to investigate. We had met earlier and they said they were looking for a bull moose. So when I caught up to them I asked what did you shoot? They sheepishly didn't answer right away. When they did finally answer that they shot a cow, I was pissed and tore off on my atv. After I calmed down I went back to help retrieve the cow because it was dead already. The 70 year old dad held the legs while the son did the work. We loaded it whole minus the guts into their truck. I laid it on pretty thick that this cow would have increased the moose population by 10 or more animals in the next 10 years.
I hope the forestry de-activates more roads. Save a few cow moose.
When I was a kid way back when and long before the pine beetle epidemic I hunted 3-20 with my dad when it was still any bull. I remember when they caught a white guy who shot 30 plus moose that year and was selling the meat. As pissed as I get at the natives their are bad in all groups. I just don’t like cows being shot!! That’s our future.

[quadrakid]

Why bring back a thread where the OP admits he does not really know the facts. There are quite a few of these threads in the last week. All about acts by natives that may or may not have happened.Third party stories,rumours etc. No doubt that some of these illegal actions occur but lets keep the threads about facts, not about tumours.

[Seth]

Would have been fun to hear what the 6 yr old would say when asked
'who shot the moose ?'
Myself, I would have left as soon as I realized what was on the ground.

“Kids say the darndest things” haha. I have to agree that had I been in the same situation you described I would have walked away had it been anything other than an immature moose. I find when you get that feeling that somethings just not quite right with a situation, you’re usually correct.

Slightly off topic but why does it seam that most animals taken by First Nations have the head removed?

[Seth]

I just noticed the op date on this. Yikes. From the archives...

[Bustercluck]

Why bring back a thread where the OP admits he does not really know the facts. There are quite a few of these threads in the last week. All about acts by natives that may or may not have happened.Third party stories,rumours etc. No doubt that some of these illegal actions occur but lets keep the threads about facts, not about tumours.

I think you will stick up for Indians under any circumstance. Anybody shooting a cow is a concern for the rest of the people worried about conservation. Very relevant topic. Indians shouldn’t be shooting cows. Period. Non Indians hiring Indians to hunt with them for a tag happens. Relevant topic for this site. The people on this site are out in the woods and maybe the first line of defence against these kinds of things.

[Bustercluck]

I personally had an Indian try and sell me food fish while I was camping at the Rebecca spit campsite. Indians selling their rights to others happens. I also had an I dian call me from the gold river reserve to sell me sockeye out of the river. He was just picking numbers out of the phone book and calling strangers to buy fish. As I remember the conversation started like this “this is Reggie savey from your local reserve here, looking to sell some sockeye” of course spoken with an Indian accent.

The quadrakid is the only person on this site with his head in the sand thinking Indians can do no wrong. That’s one of the reason everyone has you on ignore. Now I’m going to get another pm from someone telling me not to quote you, because nobody else wants to read your posts

[buck400]

You should have reported it to the Co because some natives cannot just take animals cuz they're natives they must be from the local band

[Looking_4_Jerky]

I just noticed the op date on this. Yikes. From the archives...

I knew it was old when it said someone had shot a moose in 3-20!