Question About Doe's

[Uncle Y]

Hi there. I'm new to the site but not to hunting so hope this is the right place to post this.

Last weekend my friend and I went out to look for a couple of Whitetail Doe's in the Rock Creek area. (Nothing down yet so looking for some meat for the freezer). My buddy spotted one alone and he shot it. Later in the day I spotted one but it had a yearling hanging around so I didn't shoot. Didn't see any more as we only had a short time to hunt.

My question is did I do the right thing? Would the yearling have survied if I dropped his mom? I usually only hunt Whitetail Bucks so I'm unclear on the whole Doe thing. Thanks in advance, I hope this isn't a dumb question.

Uncle Y

[Surrey Boy]

Not a dumb question. You hunted legally as far as I can tell, so don't feel bad.

To offset any potential guilt you may feel, consider that winterkill and predation are predicted to be quite high this year. If that particular yearling survives, it means that it's taking forage away from other deer who then may not survive. If it falls prey to a cougar or wolves, they'll be off the prowl for a few days thus leaving other deer unharassed.

[rocksteady]

Lots of debate about this one....

Two trains of thought about survival:

1) Fawns have been weaned so do not need their mothers for nutritional supplement (milk), so fawn should survive(not starve), so shoot MOM.

2) Fawns may know how to eat, but don't know anything about evading predators/bad things (like cars) so leave MOM alone...

I do not know of any actual studies that have proven either way (GoatGuy and 6616 may know of one), it appears to be more of a personal issue.....

[sawmill]

Consider that
Whities usually hang out in groups so the weanling will have other ,older does to learn from.Like Rock said,it`s a personal thing,Iprefere a dry doe but if need be I`ll take a doe with only one big fawn.Whities are not endangered and this winter may be a real bitch.

[mijinkal]

I think you did the right thing.
Personally, I wouldn't shoot a doe if she had a fawn, and I would watch her long enough to make shure she didn't have one.
If you kill the mom, the fawn's chances of survival have been drastically reduced.

[dabat]

I, for one, would let her walk

[Ddog]

,if the fawn was a yearling, meaning it has done winter, it will survive , if its is this years fawn with no winter experience and does not hook-up with other deer it may not survive.
but then again like rock said i do not know of any studies that are done are deer that has had its mom taking away before its first winter.
its a personal ethics thing for you.
dry doe or a group that has some mixed deer is my choice to find a shooter.

[Uncle Y]

Thank you for all the responses! I'm glad I let that one walk. We still have our hunt in mid November so we probably won't starve:)

Uncle Y

[rocksteady]

[quote=Ddog;775036its a personal ethics thing for you.
.[/quote]


I tried to avoid using the "E" word...:wink::wink: Don't want to start a flamethread about does/fawns and, you know, the "E" word...

[cmarrie]

I'd let her walk, but that's strictly a personal choice. I wouldn't leave the area though, if I wasn't busted by the doe/yearling, I'd stick around a while to see if Mr. Buck was also checking them out. I'd have no problem harvesting him! :-D

[Uncle Y]

I will take your advise rocksteady, and try not to start any "E" threads. I've never actually posted on a forum before. It seems like a great place to get answers to questions that I have no one to ask answered. Thanks again for all the input everyone.

[rocksteady]

Welcome aboard, by the way...Enjoy the insanity of HBC, it is a fun, helpful,aggravating, informative, positive, negative, addictive hunting forum (You get out of it what you want:-D)...

[one-shot-wonder]

Dry whitetail does are not easy to come across.....most of the ones I have seen this year have had twins!

[mark]

Dry whitetail does are not easy to come across.....most of the ones I have seen this year have had twins!

X 2, see whities every day, havnt seen a dry one yet, and yes many twins!

Myself I have trouble shooting a mother and leaving a baby on its own!

[kyleklassen]

shoot the fawn. no different than plugging a calf moose or this years grouse.

[16ga]

shoot the fawn. no different than plugging a calf moose or this years grouse.

I was kind of thinking the same thing, but it looked real bad when I wrote it out.

[kyleklassen]

no problem i'll take the heat

[steel_ram]

The "Dry doe" may be the very one you want to leave. It may very well of lost it's fawn for many reasons. Being without the burden of a fawn this doe will have better chances for survival through the mean season and have a healthy fawn.
Do not assume a doe, ewe, cow a nanny are "dry" just because they are not in close proximity of a infant.

Shoot the yearling if you really need something.

[one-shot-wonder]

no problem i'll take the heat

Nothing wrong with it.....Fawn survival is alot lower than yearling and adults.

I can only begin to imagine how tender a WT fawn would be.

[urbanhermit]

The MOE feels it's sustainable, everybody has their own veiw, everyone is right to some degree, do what you think is right and can live with.

When everyone mentions the "E" word ,you mean Elvis right?

[6616]

Hi there. I'm new to the site but not to hunting so hope this is the right place to post this.

Last weekend my friend and I went out to look for a couple of Whitetail Doe's in the Rock Creek area. (Nothing down yet so looking for some meat for the freezer). My buddy spotted one alone and he shot it. Later in the day I spotted one but it had a yearling hanging around so I didn't shoot. Didn't see any more as we only had a short time to hunt.

My question is did I do the right thing? Would the yearling have survied if I dropped his mom? I usually only hunt Whitetail Bucks so I'm unclear on the whole Doe thing. Thanks in advance, I hope this isn't a dumb question.

Uncle Y

Reseach has shown that orphaned fawn have a 70 to 80 percent survival rate compared to unorphaned fawns, but all fawns have only a 20 to 50 % survival rate depending on winter conditions. So orphaning a fawn by shooting it's mother definitelly lessens the fawns chance of survival, but a winter killed fawn is compensatory mortality and should theoretically not impact herd population dynamics. So whether to shoot is a matter of personal ethics as it is not going to hurt the WTD population from a scientific point of view..

But you're talking about a yearling, they have almost as good a survival rate as adults so shooting it has no impact what-so-ever.

[6616]

The "Dry doe" may be the very one you want to leave. It may very well of lost it's fawn for many reasons. Being without the burden of a fawn this doe will have better chances for survival through the mean season and have a healthy fawn.
Do not assume a doe, ewe, cow a nanny are "dry" just because they are not in close proximity of a infant.

Shoot the yearling if you really need something.

I agree with this, the "so called" dry doe may be a young doe that has lost her fawn for any number of reasons and may be a doe that can produce for years to come. Many fawns are lost during the summer months. It's almost impossible to tell by looking at a doe if she is past her fertile years.

If this is going to be the winter it's predicted to be we need the largest and healthiest animals on the winter range, not a ton of fawns that are going to starve anyway.

On the other hand the objective of these doe hunts is to purposely impact the population dynamics negativelly to reduce or stabilize the WTD population expansion, so should we even be worrying about this. Killing fertile does is the only way the management objective can be reached. Contrary to what many hunters believe, if a manager could accuratelly predict when a killer winter is coming, he would prepare for it by purposelly reducing the population by a significant amount to improve on over-winter mortality losses.

[one-shot-wonder]

I agree with this, the "so called" dry doe may be a young doe that has lost her fawn for any number of reasons and may be a doe that can produce for years to come. Many fawns are lost during the summer months. It's almost impossible to tell by looking at a doe if she is past her fertile years.

If this is going to be the winter it's predicted to be we need the largest and healthiest animals on the winter range, not a ton of fawns that are going to starve anyway. Contrary to what many hunters believe, if a manager could accuratelly predict when a killer winter is coming, he would prepare for it by purposelly reducing the population by a significant amount to improve on mortality losses.

On the other hand the objective of these doe hunts is to purposely impact the population dynamics negativelly to reduce or stabilize the WTD population expansion, so should we even be worrying about this. Killing fertile does is the only way the management objective can be reached.

Bang on as always Andy!

Haven't heard of all that many does being harvested lately....maybe it will happen in the final upcoming weekend?

[kgs]

You did the right thing so give yourself a pat on the back....:)

[6616]

Bang on as always Andy!

Haven't heard of all that many does being harvested lately....maybe it will happen in the final upcoming weekend?

They were going down pretty regularily the first week of the GOS here, but the guys are now telling me how surprized they are at how quickly those doe bands became very shy.

[one-shot-wonder]

They were going down pretty regularily the first week of the GOS here, but the guys are now telling me how surprized they are at how quickly those doe bands became very shy.

Hopefully the guys unsure of there stance on harvesting does read your posts and decide to take advantage of some great opportunities before the end of the month!

Yep those does have sure 'smartened' up!

[6616]

Hopefully the guys unsure of there stance on harvesting does read your posts and decide to take advantage of some great opportunities before the end of the month!

Yep those does have sure 'smartened' up!

It's real tough for old dudes like me to shake off and abandon the old wives tales (like never shoot does) that have been drummed into us by our fathers for 40 or 50 years Jerrod. For nearly all our lives we have been brought up in a era of wildlife recovery and this is a tough one to accept and believe for a whole bunch of people.