west kootenay elk opening

[curt]

Well I went to Castlegar to visit some family and do alittle hunting fully aware of the circus!! Well the stories are concerning for that herd in my opinion, from the 2 butchers in town and a few locals with property we talked to I know of close to 200 + bulls harvested and thats only the ones that didnt go straight down the hwy to places unkown!?!? One road with a 14km vehicle restriction had at least 35 bulls taken from it according to a local i was talking to crazy numbers. Hunting in the next few yrs will be considerable different than what people have experienced before. Talked to one avid local elk hunter he was saying with the huge amount of bulls taken out the remaining bulls will have so many cows with them come next fall they wont even answer a call???? I'm no pro by any means but that makes perfect sense to me. In my 4 days of experince talking with local hunters and being in the bush in the west kootenays the ministry should have expanded the leh instead of opening a slaughter. Ministry DROPPED THE BALL BIG TIME HERE IN MY OPINION.

[Jelvis]

Talk to MOE and the insliderz about your concerns cuz nobody on here has the clout to shout it out with emotion and the facts together.
Jelly ( MOE ) Only for true up to date data on da matta unless you just want chit chat and personal views only .. lol ..

[MuleyMadness]

Shooting bulls does not manipulate the populations over the long term, only shooting cows can do that. The reason is that one bull can mate with 10+, some say as many as 20+ cows in a single rut, and as a result reducing the population this way is generally considered much safer than doing so by opening up cows. You might feel it's a mistake, but the elk are thick in those areas, and as long as you don't lower the bull:cow ratios too far, it typically doesn't have much of an effect over a few years. Furthermore, the biologists, who happen to have actual data as far as counts and allowable harvests are concerned felt this was not only appropriate, but necessary to ensure the long term health of the species and habitat. That beats rumour mill and heresay anyday.

[Kody94]

Those numbers aren't crazy. Based on the estimated population, that's in the ballpark of what would be expected. I certainly wouldn't call it a "slaughter".

There won't be quite as many 6pts next year, and they may get wiser and warier over time, but it'll still be darn good hunting. The elk in the EK have been on 6pt or better for more than a decade (and there was a 3pt or better season thrown in before that!) and they still bugle here. ;)

[JCVD]

Well I went to Castlegar to visit some family and do alittle hunting fully aware of the circus!! Well the stories are concerning for that herd in my opinion, from the 2 butchers in town and a few locals with property we talked to I know of close to 200 + bulls harvested and thats only the ones that didnt go straight down the hwy to places unkown!?!? One road with a 14km vehicle restriction had at least 35 bulls taken from it according to a local i was talking to crazy numbers. Hunting in the next few yrs will be considerable different than what people have experienced before. Talked to one avid local elk hunter he was saying with the huge amount of bulls taken out the remaining bulls will have so many cows with them come next fall they wont even answer a call???? I'm no pro by any means but that makes perfect sense to me. In my 4 days of experince talking with local hunters and being in the bush in the west kootenays the ministry should have expanded the leh instead of opening a slaughter. Ministry DROPPED THE BALL BIG TIME HERE IN MY OPINION.

You have seen the bulls personally? Hunters, like fishermen are BS'rs lol, unless you have photo evidence you may as well say that Santa and his reindeer got shot and Christmas will never be the same. Even if it is true , there are lots of Elk in there, no worries.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

........yawn...........another "slaughter" thread.:roll:

SSS

[Ruger4]

You have seen the bulls personally? Hunters, like fishermen are BS'rs lol, unless you have photo evidence you may as well say that Santa and his reindeer got shot and Christmas will never be the same. Even if it is true , there are lots of Elk in there, no worries.

what !!!

Santa got shot ?

[JCVD]

what !!!

Santa got shot ?

Some guy (who hunts reindeer all the time) told me it was true!:wink:

[mcrae]

I guess thats why I can't find a bull they have all been slaughtered LOL...

Wow takes some weight off my mind here I thought I was just a crappy elk hunter....

[slicky72]

........yawn...........another "slaughter" thread.:roll:

SSS

did you say slaughter?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JJXy2pKy7A

[Fisher-Dude]

http://redriverpak.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/crying-baby-party-56800676.jpg

[twodog]

I was in Cranbrook Sept. 22nd and a sport shop employee told me his butcher had already butchered 72 elk.

[Kody94]

I was in Cranbrook Sept. 22nd and a sport shop employee told me his butcher had already butchered 72 elk.

IIRC, the annual harvest of 6pts in the East Kootenays is around 800. Considering cows and spikes were opened up in 4-03x, and since there's only a few butchers in the Cranbrook/Kimberley area, I am kinda surprised the number is so low.

[born2hunt]

what !!!

Santa got shot ? omg i,ll never get my new quad now that santa's dead.

[BlacktailStalker]

I was in Cranbrook Sept. 22nd and a sport shop employee told me his butcher had already butchered 72 elk.

He didnt butcher mine, it was done here :) So 73 for sure, slaughtered !

[BiG Boar]

I wish more things were off Leh an on point restriction. Why not have rosies on as well?

[jml11]

The 7-20A 3-point and antlerless seasons (including winter LEHs) see probably over 1000 animals taken and it might even be over 2000. I've been working in the pine pass and was seeing 12-15 bull elk racks heading south every day for a week...and those are just the ones I saw, not including cows, those hidden away in trailers and those I just didn't see. Could have been as many as 50 elk heading south every day for that week. I know they probably weren't all from 7-20A but most of the bulls were 5-points or less and were attached to camper rigs with quads...so it's likely most were from 7-20A....

In 7-20A, there are still plenty of elk to be had and believe it or not plenty of 6-point bull elk. Sure the population took a hit once it opened but there is still good elk hunting opportunities there. Sure the elk numbers in 7-20A are higher than than the west koots but the comparison does have some merit...oh and the elk in 7-20A still call too by the way and they even come in to the calls :eek:

[GoatGuy]

Wouldn't be worried in terms of conservation unless 800-1000 bulls were shot out of the WK, which is statistically impossible under a 6 pt season.

Course it's also a post rut hunt so I really wouldn't worry about any of it.

[happyhunter]

I was in Cranbrook Sept. 22nd and a sport shop employee told me his butcher had already butchered 72 elk.

Really? My guy had 60 already when I brought my goat sept 13th. That fella better step up his game! You think thats a lot? Theres supposed to be some 20000 -35000 in the trench alone! Alright maybe I just heard that somewhere but it sounds about right. If you go for a drive, quad ride, hike in the bush when its not hunting season and the animals are calm you can see a 100 elk in one day, cranbrook people back me up this is no joke. But once the guns go off, well if you got shot at would you just keep standing in plain sight?

[Gateholio]

How many threads do we have on this topic? :confused:

Don't we have 2 or 3 already?:?

[curt]

seemed like alot of bulls to me for the area I was in, and if any of you are willing to take what the biologists says as gosple then i have a bridge to sell you too!!! Be sure that the majority of you/us spend more time in the bush then any biologist in this province. I know this for fact I have talked in great length with the head huncho in Victoria and he personal told me field biologists dont have enough funding to get concrete accurate info from field work. I wasnt starting an argument just posting what I was hearing out there. Well if we are taking Biologist words are gosple then hard to compare the east to the west, east Koot elk population is 4-5 times higher than the west according to the all mighties!?!?!? Doesnt matter a whole bunch to me anyway i wont be going back just passing on some info................... and i didnt see all the bulls but seen a few in trucks and heard from the butchers in town. I do realize there is some expanded truths but either way it's still a sh*t pile of animals in a fairly small area of the west Koots. The relatives up there have been there for many years and have their fingers on the pulse of that community is likely as accurate as possible I'm thinking. Take it for what it's worth just letting you in on what i was hearing.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

That's why the bios went with a failsafe season. Mostly post rut and 6 pt bulls. Can't decimate a herd by doing that. Impossible.

The hunting for bulls won't ever be what it was... but does it really need to be??

SSS

[Jelvis]

I really got hit hard hearing about Santa and his friends being hurt is this true or is this strictly bs? Chrismas will never be the same again if it is.
Jel ( Santa's reindeers ) ? Please tell me it's all wrong ..

[Kody94]

That's why the bios went with a failsafe season. Mostly post rut and 6 pt bulls. Can't decimate a herd by doing that. Impossible.

The hunting for bulls won't ever be what it was... but does it really need to be??

SSS

I do struggle with why that is such a leap of faith for so many people. I guess they just don't want to accept it, because the logic conflicts with what they prefer.

Now, if bulls were born with 6pts, or those WK elk were so virile that the cows grew 6pts antlers too...then you'd have a problem. :)

[325]

As so many have said, it is impossible to decimate elk populations by having a 6 point or better season. Yes, many elk have hit the ground, and some guys have gotten 2 or 3 elk in a matter of hours...because there are so damn many bulls! It's nothing to hear 2 or 3 bulls bugling at the same time within 300 yards of each other at many locations. Next year, there will be far fewer bulls killed.

Apparently all the experts agree that the coming winter will be the worst in 55 years (ocean current unfluence). We might be glad some lucky hunters got a few bulls before the winter does the job.

[budismyhorse]

oh my now the number is 200 bulls.......yawn.

35 bulls out of a small (ish) road closure may seem large on the surface, but that just speaks to the surplus level of the population. The following years, that kill number will get lower and level off. No need to panic fellas.

Oddly enough, the local boys I talk to all speak about the big slaughter as well........while they talk about the bull they shot the day before......Some interesting choices being made by the "sky is falling" locals.

[325]

oh my now the number is 200 bulls.......yawn.

35 bulls out of a small (ish) road closure may seem large on the surface, but that just speaks to the surplus level of the population. The following years, that kill number will get lower and level off. No need to panic fellas.

Oddly enough, the local boys I talk to all speak about the big slaughter as well........while they talk about the bull they shot the day before......Some interesting choices being made by the "sky is falling" locals.


Yep...I bet almost 100% of those who so bitterly oppose the new GOS in the WK will be hunting those MUs themselves. Hypocrits!

[Kody94]

Oddly enough, the local boys I talk to all speak about the big slaughter as well........while they talk about the bull they shot the day before......Some interesting choices being made by the "sky is falling" locals.

lol They don't agree with the season, but they made sure they got theirs. The logic is interesting. Similarly, a few folks that took cow elk and spike bulls are also questioning the season...on a scientific basis no less. If you don't believe the biologists, and think its bad for the elk, why would you participate? Reminds me of the old example all of our parents used on us as kids...if everyone was jumping off a bridge, would you? ;) On the up side, I am glad they are jumping...its good for the elk and whitetails over here, and its a lot better than eating beef. :)

[Kirby]

and if any of you are willing to take what the biologists says as gosple then i have a bridge to sell you too!!!

What, listen to biologist? that would be intelligent, much better to get your wildlife management practices from a butcher, they are so well schooled in population management.

Kirby

[curt]

Well like i was saying i was reporting what i was hearing while out there is all. I'm certainly not against hunting shit thats why i was there but I'm not so sure IN MY OPiNION that it was the smartest move is all I was saying. Ease up guys some of you just sit around waiting to lash out on people for speaking their opinions wow !!!

[700bdl]

Well like i was saying i was reporting what i was hearing while out there is all. I'm certainly not against hunting shit thats why i was there but I'm not so sure IN MY OPiNION that it was the smartest move is all I was saying. Ease up guys some of you just sit around waiting to lash out on people for speaking their opinions wow !!!

What?....You didn't know.......you can't have an opinion around here. The powers that be will see to that.

Oh...be careful what you say now.......you could be banned for a period with no reason given to you why.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

There's been a major surplus of elk sperm in the W Koots for quite some time.

Using a "recovery strategy" regulation won't make the herds go away.

SSS

[budismyhorse]

Well like i was saying i was reporting what i was hearing while out there is all. I'm certainly not against hunting shit thats why i was there but I'm not so sure IN MY OPiNION that it was the smartest move is all I was saying. Ease up guys some of you just sit around waiting to lash out on people for speaking their opinions wow !!!

Why do you post your opinions if you don't want people to debate them?



relax bud, no one is lashing out at anyone, just talking about the topic you ever so "softly" started up ;)

Strongly stated opinions usually evoke strong responses........what is it about the recent rash of posters on this website that fire off at the mouth and then get upset by the poor responses they get in return??? I just don't get it.

If you are going to state things like you did in your original post, be prepare to not only back it up, but receive strong OPINIONS in return. That is the way public forums work whether you (or the other posters that chime in and cry along with you) like it or not.

[Island Idiots]

I have no problem with voicing opinions. I do have a problem when the word "Slaughter" is used. The correct term is "Harvest". Using words that you normally here from anti hunters and PITA, hurts all of us. I am a hunter. I am also a conservationist. I harvest game, I do not 'slaughter" them. :(

[Jelvis]

The West Koots has been the hidden, unknown in big game hunting circles for a century and now has been opened up like a butterfly for all to hunt.
Big mule bucks and world class elk are on the menu now for all to see.
Jel ( Who Yah Goin To Call ) West Koots Rocks .. MU 4-8 Nelson South and west ..
Nelway to Waneta got the largest bulls .. South West .. A ridge back from the road .. For the mega-load.
The secrets out .. let's accept it folks .. Every hunter wants a piece of the action! Call me Action Jack's Son.

[bforce750]

I wish more things were off Leh an on point restriction. Why not have rosies on as well?

Because the 6-point season is proven to be fail-safe :roll:

[Kody94]

Because the 6-point season is proven to be fail-safe :roll:

Unfortunately, when setting the season for rosies, science does not get to play a very big role.

[Kody94]

Was just down at the taxi shop (because he's about to get started on my cat from last winter) and he said he's had his best year on elk ever. A few big bulls from the EK, and 4 HOGS from the WK. He figures 3 of them will go over 380 and one will be in the 360 range. He got about a dozen more in the 320 range. Lots of happy hunters. :)

[bforce750]

Unfortunately, when setting the season for rosies, science does not get to play a very big role.

Not to completely high-jack,but why not?

[knockturnal]

i put the *laughter* in Slaughter

[7SAUM]

A friend of mine was going to set-up a Hot-dog and hamburger stand on one of the roads by his house LMAO!!!

[Kody94]

A smart guy would have invested in freezers! Wish my foresight was half as good as my hindsight.

[GoatGuy]

Oddly enough, the local boys I talk to all speak about the big slaughter as well........while they talk about the bull they shot the day before......Some interesting choices being made by the "sky is falling" locals.

Sent a bunch of different pictures by the 'big bull elk hunting experts' from the WK shooting small 'dink' bulls. The same 'big bull hunters' who normally go to the bull river to hunt elk (never passed up a 6 pt, ever) cause they don't have the jam to hunt trout lake. The same guys that said 'you're going to kill the genetics off, destroy the herd, kill the trophy potential' are all the same guys shooting the first 6 pts that walks in front of them. And they're still complaining.

Proves a few things, these guys aren't the extreme elk hunters they thought they were, they can't keep their fingers out of the trigger when a 6 pt walks by, they're more worried about a kid shooting a big 6 pt on the road that's biggers then there's and having to face the music at the trophy competition, and most importantly they don't have any integrity whatsoever.

Really can't believe people who would be so adamantly against a season for all those reasons would go out and be 'that guy' they said would come and 'destroy the herd'. To me this demonstrates the motives. If it was about the elk and a genuine concern for the elk these guys wouldn't be hunting - if they were genuinely concerned for the elk population they wouldn't be hunting the WK.... but they are. Some of the are the same clowns that caught grief for blocking roads with camps. This is entirely about ego and the decadent 'gotta shoot something bigger than the next guy' mentality that is so pervasive in the WK.

Shows a lot of class, too bad it's all third.

[Devilbear]

GG, that is among the best posts I have ever read on HBC and you are absolutely right f**king on!

I just chuckle every time some "conservationist" whines about the
WK GOS and then goes there to hunt these Elk in person. I am amused by the sort of "local" who has lived there for a whole 10-12 years and now is opposed to hunters from other regions of BC daring to come to hunt "his" Elk........

I can recall over 30 years ago, hunting alone by foot, up Grohman Creek, on the very rare Sunday I ever took off from the small business I owned, being told by a guy with a Yankee accent, renting an old cabin that belonged to a friend of mine, although he did not know this, that I had "no right" to hunt in "their" valley.........

I think that what SHOULD happen, is an expanded GOS and the antler restrictions lowered to 3-pts. and larger. I would also like to see all "non-resident" hunting throughout the Kootenays banned as this region is more accessible for more BC res. hunters than further north and we need the game there for ourselves.

[curt]

the only thing I have an opinion on is there is definately alot of elk going down hopefully the herd is big enough to not be impacted much. I'm no wk pro at anything in fact this was my first trip out there, and quite honeslty i wasnt impressed. The turkeys impressed me thats for sure but the elk..........not so much. There were roughly 4 area's hunted were i was hearing about the bulls coming from. They certainly werent big area's, so it still sounds like alot of animals to me but whatever take them if you can get them before someone else does I guess. Oh ya thats was the other issue the locals were choked about natives bands from 3-4 hrs away were coming in shooting what they wanted a week or two ealry as well, the government needs to grow some fing balls and stop that crap!!! A farmer I know through my friend chased a native off his field after he shot a nice bull a week early without permission. A bunch of locals up pass creek were pissed right off too, I guess a bunch of guys were going through local phone books calling whoever had an address up pass creek asking if they had land and could we hunt their land. The impression from the locals is guys were just being jerks it could they just have bad attitudes about the opening but it is definately leaving a bad taste in the mouths of Castlegar residents. It was the talk where ever i went gas station beer store grocery store didnt matter. For the record I still am not so sure that this opening was the best option but I am just posting the info i was hearing dont shoot the messenger. For me Castlegar isnt on my must do list anytime soon unless i want a bear or a turkey but i dont so enjoy!!:)

[325]

the only thing I have an opinion on is there is definately alot of elk going down hopefully the herd is big enough to not be impacted much. I'm no wk pro at anything in fact this was my first trip out there, and quite honeslty i wasnt impressed. The turkeys impressed me thats for sure but the elk..........not so much. There were roughly 4 area's hunted were i was hearing about the bulls coming from. They certainly werent big area's, so it still sounds like alot of animals to me but whatever take them if you can get them before someone else does I guess. Oh ya thats was the other issue the locals were choked about natives bands from 3-4 hrs away were coming in shooting what they wanted a week or two ealry as well, the government needs to grow some fing balls and stop that crap!!! A farmer I know through my friend chased a native off his field after he shot a nice bull a week early without permission. A bunch of locals up pass creek were pissed right off too, I guess a bunch of guys were going through local phone books calling whoever had an address up pass creek asking if they had land and could we hunt their land. The impression from the locals is guys were just being jerks it could they just have bad attitudes about the opening but it is definately leaving a bad taste in the mouths of Castlegar residents. It was the talk where ever i went gas station beer store grocery store didnt matter. For the record I still am not so sure that this opening was the best option but I am just posting the info i was hearing dont shoot the messenger. For me Castlegar isnt on my must do list anytime soon unless i want a bear or a turkey but i dont so enjoy!!:)


Most of the hunters coming to the WK for elk won't be back. I'd bet lot's of camps never even saw an elk.

I agree there is certainly some animosity between some landowners and the throngs of hunters that decended. One of my patients told me an interesting story. He is in his 70s and his neighbour is in his 80s. Some jokers from Vancouver (yes, he asked, that's where they were from), set-up their trailer in the bush 30 yards from his neighbours house, on his neighbours land. His nieghbour told them that they were on private land and to move, but they said "we're hunters, we have the right to camp here". The old guy thought maybe there was some law that allowed hunters to camp wherever they liked, so he called the CO and asked. Of course the CO said that they don't have that right. The older neighbour asked my patient for help, as the @ssholes were verbally abusive, so my neighbour told them to leave or he would call the RCMP. Again, they were verbally abusive, but left reluctantly.

This kind of crap paints us all with a very dirty brush, but fortunately my patient said he has no trouble with "real' hunters who actually get-out into the mountains, and hunt without bothering anyone.

[4blade]

well put Curt, too many people on this site want to BASH some one for posting his or her thoughts on an issue. i do live here in the WK and i dont consider these MY ELK.Yes i did harvest a bull and was opposed to GOS.sorry my choice.would have preferred more leh first and eased into GOS over a couple of years but the decision makers decided otherwise.i dont like the hst but i still pay it too.hopefully the bios were right on with there numbers and all the hoopla was for nothing .

[Devilbear]

In any group within society as a whole that you care to delineate, there are going to be some jerks, some crooks, some slimeballs and some wonderful people.

I know of MANY game animals shot and left by "locals" and much of the destruction of the once incredible salmonid fisheries in the WK was done by "locals". Others fought for conservation and even gave up promising careers to continue the battle to save some Kootenay wilderness from industrial devastation, I know, I was among them.

It's the same old story and, one of my younger brothers likes to come salmon fishing on the coast a few times per year and takes salmon home to Nelson. So, should he be "allowed" to fish off Vancouver Island and should a person born, raised and a lifelong resident of "the Rock" be "allowed" to hunt Elk in the WKs?

What is needed, is a cooperative and conservation-oriented attitude among ALL BC citizens and a willingness to fight our REAL enemies, the GOABC, the hordes of foreign illegal aliens, the current government and the aboriginals; it is beyond foolish to fight among ourselves.

[curt]

your 100% right devilbear people just cant wait to get thier licks in and bash and trash people. we are our own worst enemies and always will be. Its not suprising people cant get along and hunt cooperatively in the bush christ they cant be civil on a forum for the most part... pathetic really.

[GoatGuy]

well put Curt, too many people on this site want to BASH some one for posting his or her thoughts on an issue. i do live here in the WK and i dont consider these MY ELK.Yes i did harvest a bull and was opposed to GOS.sorry my choice.would have preferred more leh first and eased into GOS over a couple of years but the decision makers decided otherwise.i dont like the hst but i still pay it too.hopefully the bios were right on with there numbers and all the hoopla was for nothing .


Pretty sure you were one the folks who used words like slaughter, unsustainable, not enough elk etc........ and you're also one of the guys hunting and harvesting them.

Certainly discounts the 'opinion' and makes it hard to see how it was ever a genuine concern for 'the elk'.


Dissapointing.

[KB90]

we are our own worst enemies and always will be.

Especially when YOU criticize our biologists and their science. We would be far better off to go by hunters opinions and here-say instead of science.:confused:

Why do some people have such a hard time believing in biologists? Yeah they may not have the funding and time they would like and need like you state ( there are problems with money everywhere ), but they sure have a better idea of whats going on then your average guy out in the bush, it's their job.

[budismyhorse]

your 100% right devilbear people just cant wait to get thier licks in and bash and trash people. we are our own worst enemies and always will be. Its not suprising people cant get along and hunt cooperatively in the bush christ they cant be civil on a forum for the most part... pathetic really.

I think you should re-read Devilbear's post. It has nothing to do with what you are saying here.

......not only that, your posts have been pretty uncivil when you bash and trash the biologist/government .......so I hope you include yourself when you say "they can't be civil".........

[budismyhorse]

well put Curt, too many people on this site want to BASH some one for posting his or her thoughts on an issue. i do live here in the WK and i dont consider these MY ELK.Yes i did harvest a bull and was opposed to GOS.sorry my choice.would have preferred more leh first and eased into GOS over a couple of years but the decision makers decided otherwise.i dont like the hst but i still pay it too.hopefully the bios were right on with there numbers and all the hoopla was for nothing .

You are not alone.....you walk in numbers 4blade......

again, interesting choices being made by hunters like yourself.

[6616]

would have preferred more leh first and eased into GOS over a couple of years but the decision makers decided otherwise..

How much easier did you want them to "ease into it" .......?

Did they not increase authorizations last year, is it not a fail-safe 6pt only season while the LEH was 3pt or better, is it not a 20 days only season outside of the rut.....unlike the 40 day season in the EK which includes the rut....?

If you really didn't like it you certainly could have helped your cause by not killing an elk.........!!!

[Fisher-Dude]

well put Curt, too many people on this site want to BASH some one for posting his or her thoughts on an issue. i do live here in the WK and i dont consider these MY ELK.Yes i did harvest a bull and was opposed to GOS.sorry my choice.would have preferred more leh first and eased into GOS over a couple of years but the decision makers decided otherwise.i dont like the hst but i still pay it too.hopefully the bios were right on with there numbers and all the hoopla was for nothing .

I have to read this as: "I'm opposed to the season, but dammit all, I'm going to kill one of "our" elk before some arsehole from the Lower Mainland gets it!"

LEH sucks ass. Double the number of LEH tags, and you still wait an average of 50 years for a tag. That's unacceptable when we have close to 5,000 elk in an area with low access and difficult terrain. We've had GOS in the Okanagan for decades with only 770 elk (and they are higher than ever right now) with no conservation concerns.

And, I also sense opposition to the idea of others hunting, rather than a genuine conservation concern about the elk. If 4blade had a conservation concern, he wouldn't have killed an elk, would he? :wink:

[Brambles]

I for one refused to go out for the new GOS areas, lucky for me that I shot my bull in september and therefore I wasn't tempted after that.

I've stopped being angry about the whole thing, but I'm Pissed that they didn't have at the bare minimum compulsory reporting, now no one will ever know the stats and if it was a bad idea or not.

[pnbrock]

what the hell is that are elk comment fd i pay a hell of a lot more for the opp to hunt elk what makes it yours?dont be calling me an arsehole!

[kootenayelkslayer]

Yes i did harvest a bull and was opposed to GOS.sorry my choice...i dont like the hst but i still pay it too.

Comparing the opening of an awesome elk hunting area with the introduction of HST...really? Is it that bad?
Did you shoot your elk begrudgingly? You might as well have left it for someone who'd appreciate it.

[Gateholio]

There isn't much choice when it comes to paying HST. Going out hunting, is entirely by choice.:mrgreen:

[curt]

hey Goat guy i was the guy that used the word slaughter because thats how it appeared to me. i explored 4 small areas and heard of sh*t piles of elk coming. I was hearing from locals that are friends with my family members up there and thats how they explained it too. I was there hunting i dont deny that, however if I would have known what was going on before i got there or had the impression i got once there i likley wouldnt havre gone, but live and learn?? My comments were based on my experience once there so ask me if I'm going back I'll save the the time not a chance!! Does that make you feel better that i'm backing up my comments now??

[Devilbear]

I for one refused to go out for the new GOS areas, lucky for me that I shot my bull in september and therefore I wasn't tempted after that.

I've stopped being angry about the whole thing, but I'm Pissed that they didn't have at the bare minimum compulsory reporting, now no one will ever know the stats and if it was a bad idea or not.

I agree here, but, the problem with a lack of funding, staffing and thus compulsory reporting is different from, although allied to, the question of a GOS or the region remaining on LEH. The MoE and MoF have suffered from a severe lack of funding and staffing since I first joined the BCFS and long before that. I won't detail the reasons here, but, this is one area where hunters/anglers need to become far more active.

The ideal situation for resident hunters all over BC is to eliminate LEH, which has always been a tool for the government to ignore their responsibilities in respect of game management and quietly give our game to the GOs. It has not worked, will not work and can never give a fair level of access to our game to we resident hunters who OWN said game.

I also think that there is some of this "they are MY Elk" attitude in some of the comments here and my response is both sadness and anger in that such chickenshit attitudes will simply weaken the poltical position of resident hunters and strengthen that of the GOABC and the aboriginals.

My first approach as a resident hunter is going to be to lobby against foreign nationals, such as aboriginals from the USA being allowed into my homeland with any type of firearm and/or hunting any animal in any fashion. This is one aspect of this hunt that is vulnerable to political pressure from we resident hunters and we should lobby government to ban any and all foreign participation in this or any such BC hunt.

We need major political changes in BC to retain, maintain and enhance our traditional sustenance-cultural hunting rights as we have known them since before BC became a "Crown Colony" in 1858 and a province of Canada in 1871. OUR traditions have some value here, IMHO, if we have the wisdom to stick together and the guts to fight the enemies of resident hunting.

[bridger]

[quote=curt;763006]hey Goat guy i was the guy that used the word slaughter because thats how it appeared to me. i explored 4 small areas and heard of sh*t piles of elk coming. I was hearing from locals that are friends with my family members up there and thats how they explained it too. I was there hunting i dont deny that, however if I would have known what was going on before i got there or had the impression i got once there i likley wouldnt havre gone, but live and learn?? My comments were based on my experience once there so ask me if I'm going back I'll save the the time not a chance!! Does that make you feel better that i'm backing up my comments now??[/quote

I am curious as to how many bulls you and your friends acutally saw on the ground. Before the season there were a lot of doom and gloom posts that predicated a large overharvest of bulls. Has this actually been the case? Do you feel that the gos harvest was greater that the leh harvests in the past? If so do you have a handle on the per centage of increase? Also when you use the term slaughter it makes it appear that you are opossed to the gos, is that true? And if so would you mind explaining why? I am not trying to create a fuss here just trying to get a common sense feel of the situation in the wk from somone who is on the scene so to speak.

[Gateholio]

Compulsory reporting seems to be going away in many cases. it seems that the random questionnaires garnered more response and was just as accurate in determining harvest levels.

[GoatGuy]

hey Goat guy i was the guy that used the word slaughter because thats how it appeared to me. i explored 4 small areas and heard of sh*t piles of elk coming. I was hearing from locals that are friends with my family members up there and thats how they explained it too. I was there hunting i dont deny that, however if I would have known what was going on before i got there or had the impression i got once there i likley wouldnt havre gone, but live and learn?? My comments were based on my experience once there so ask me if I'm going back I'll save the the time not a chance!! Does that make you feel better that i'm backing up my comments now??


4blade has posted that stuff up on other thread, don't worry it wasn't directed at you and you really don't seem to know a whole lot about the season or what goes on over there.

[GoatGuy]

I for one refused to go out for the new GOS areas, lucky for me that I shot my bull in september and therefore I wasn't tempted after that.

I've stopped being angry about the whole thing, but I'm Pissed that they didn't have at the bare minimum compulsory reporting, now no one will ever know the stats and if it was a bad idea or not.

That's the thing, you see bad idea with no compulsory reporting because you don't know how many elk are shot.

On the flip side compulsory reporting is something that has never been adhered to. I would also consider it a waste of money because it's a fail-safe season.

To be honest there is exponentially more 'risk' in having a 2 pt bull moose season and it isn't really risky either.

You'll also get the harvest sample and stats, that are again not really important if we're talking about elk conservation.

[Fisher-Dude]

what the hell is that are elk comment fd i pay a hell of a lot more for the opp to hunt elk what makes it yours?dont be calling me an arsehole!

I'm on your side pn. You misread my post - I was referring to the attitude of those who are opposed to the hunt, not my personal views about LMLers. I'm glad to see LMLers, and everyone else, out hunting. In fact, I like arseholes from the coast. :mrgreen:

[4blade]

goat guy would you be referring to a thread from 2007.

[rocksteady]

Was in Castlegar for meetings today, saw a black Dodge (I think) extended cab with a tidy tank in the back at the Sandman...Great looking 6 point rack sticking out of the back ...The bulls 4th tines had to be 18 inches or longer....Beauty bull color too...dark brown....

Did not take pictures, as there was no one at the truck...If there was I would have asked permission.....I don't want to be posting pictures of some LML'ers bull without his permission:wink::wink:

[mark]

I've stopped being angry about the whole thing, but I'm Pissed that they didn't have at the bare minimum compulsory reporting, now no one will ever know the stats and if it was a bad idea or not.

How could it possibly be a bad idea???? Please explain???
Like GG has mentioned....its a failsafe season!
Whack every 6 point bull in the west koots and the herd will still grow???
I think the CI is a waste of money for such a season!
So if 200 bulls, or 300 bulls are killed....whats the difference, it doesnt matter!

[ford1]

well put Curt, too many people on this site want to BASH some one for posting his or her thoughts on an issue. i do live here in the WK and i dont consider these MY ELK.Yes i did harvest a bull and was opposed to GOS.sorry my choice.would have preferred more leh first and eased into GOS over a couple of years but the decision makers decided otherwise.i dont like the hst but i still pay it too.hopefully the bios were right on with there numbers and all the hoopla was for nothing .
I can NOT believe you even said that. You sir are a 100% total hypocrite!!!!!

[fireguy68]

Its really great to read all these opinionated so called self proclaimed biologist comments on the West Kootenay Elk opening........have fun boys.....when they are all gone......everyone will be looking around and saying.........What Happened to all the elk????????????? When they are all gone, the ones partaking in the so called slaughter will have no one to blame but themselves........take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you participated, playing into the Ministries hands. Its really obvious the government does not care about the Wildlife numbers or the habitat they live in. We as the public should not be falling into the buracratic BS the government always trys and does ram down our throats.......and up our A**es.
PS: Santa did not get shot....he comes to our house every year.....its whats in your heart....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[budismyhorse]

Its really great to read all these opinionated so called self proclaimed biologist comments on the West Kootenay Elk opening........have fun boys.....when they are all gone......everyone will be looking around and saying.........What Happened to all the elk????????????? When they are all gone, the ones partaking in the so called slaughter will have no one to blame but themselves........take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you participated, playing into the Ministries hands. Its really obvious the government does not care about the Wildlife numbers or the habitat they live in. We as the public should not be falling into the buracratic BS the government always trys and does ram down our throats.......and up our A**es.
PS: Santa did not get shot....he comes to our house every year.....its whats in your heart....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


With a comment like this.....it would seem that you are one of the "opinionated-so called-self-proclaimed-biologists".

Can you not see that in your post? sounds like you have it all figured out...........care to share your management ideas with the rest of us?

[Kirby]

Its really great to read all these opinionated so called self proclaimed biologist comments on the West Kootenay Elk opening........have fun boys.....when they are all gone......everyone will be looking around and saying.........What Happened to all the elk?????????????


And your qualified as a biologist how? Please enlighten us on how you are a cut above the "self proclaimed biologist"

Kirby

[BCrams]

I for one refused to go out for the new GOS areas, lucky for me that I shot my bull in september and therefore I wasn't tempted after that.

I've stopped being angry about the whole thing, but I'm Pissed that they didn't have at the bare minimum compulsory reporting, now no one will ever know the stats and if it was a bad idea or not.

Grin.:-D What if you had more time on your hands away from the house and you didn't get one in September? You still wouldn't try chasing elk in one of the new GOS units with your partner?? :wink:

Not next year, not ever?? ....thats showing a strong resolve to stick with your beliefs and I respect that view regarding the WK GOS season if you do that!! Not many guys can say they were against it and then not hunt the new opportunity.

What a great season it is!! My relatives had a blast and my cousin was thrilled being able to hunt and take a nice WK bull after waiting for a non-existent LEH for all these years. (need to find out if the others took elk too)

[bridger]

Its really great to read all these opinionated so called self proclaimed biologist comments on the West Kootenay Elk opening........have fun boys.....when they are all gone......everyone will be looking around and saying.........What Happened to all the elk????????????? When they are all gone, the ones partaking in the so called slaughter will have no one to blame but themselves........take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you participated, playing into the Ministries hands. Its really obvious the government does not care about the Wildlife numbers or the habitat they live in. We as the public should not be falling into the buracratic BS the government always trys and does ram down our throats.......and up our A**es.
PS: Santa did not get shot....he comes to our house every year.....its whats in your heart....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

get a life and some common sense!!

[curt]

I enjoy everyones opinions and perspectives it makes me often rethink my own, but one thing I have a hard time with so many of you seem to put so much worth and what these actual biologists say. Thats the saddest reality most of these people never leave the office 95% of their data is collected from us. Honeslty they know shit about whats really going on they arent in the bush. Most are City folk with degrees that can get lost in a farmers field you think they are going through the back country in their fancy suits give your freaking heads a shake!!!!can you people not really see that. I'll give you the number if you want talk the the head guy yourself they are clueless without funds to do real field studies bottom line end of story. I could collect data from this site and everyone of you and probably be just as accurate as they are so dont trust what they have to say. Like i said make the call inquire you will see I did post the name and contact number in the summer search my posts and call. I can confidently say you will not be impressed with what you find.

[6616]

Its really great to read all these opinionated so called self proclaimed biologist comments on the West Kootenay Elk opening........have fun boys.....when they are all gone......everyone will be looking around and saying.........What Happened to all the elk????????????? When they are all gone, the ones partaking in the so called slaughter will have no one to blame but themselves........take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you participated, playing into the Ministries hands. Its really obvious the government does not care about the Wildlife numbers or the habitat they live in. We as the public should not be falling into the buracratic BS the government always trys and does ram down our throats.......and up our A**es.
PS: Santa did not get shot....he comes to our house every year.....its whats in your heart....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I enjoy everyones opinions and perspectives it makes me often rethink my own, but one thing I have a hard time with so many of you seem to put so much worth and what these actual biologists say. Thats the saddest reality most of these people never leave the office 95% of their data is collected from us. Honeslty they know shit about whats really going on they arent in the bush. Most are City folk with degrees that can get lost in a farmers field you think they are going through the back country in their fancy suits give your freaking heads a shake!!!!can you people not really see that. I'll give you the number if you want talk the the head guy yourself they are clueless without funds to do real field studies bottom line end of story. I could collect data from this site and everyone of you and probably be just as accurate as they are so dont trust what they have to say. Like i said make the call inquire you will see I did post the name and contact number in the summer search my posts and call. I can confidently say you will not be impressed with what you find.


This thread has gone completelly sideways. Are you guys actually hunters, or Valhalla society members...?

[GoatGuy]

Its really great to read all these opinionated so called self proclaimed biologist comments on the West Kootenay Elk opening........have fun boys.....when they are all gone......everyone will be looking around and saying.........What Happened to all the elk????????????? When they are all gone, the ones partaking in the so called slaughter will have no one to blame but themselves........take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you participated, playing into the Ministries hands. Its really obvious the government does not care about the Wildlife numbers or the habitat they live in. We as the public should not be falling into the buracratic BS the government always trys and does ram down our throats.......and up our A**es.
PS: Santa did not get shot....he comes to our house every year.....its whats in your heart....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trail's turning into the Vegreville of BC. You need to get out of town and talk to some rational people.

[GoatGuy]

I enjoy everyones opinions and perspectives it makes me often rethink my own, but one thing I have a hard time with so many of you seem to put so much worth and what these actual biologists say. Thats the saddest reality most of these people never leave the office 95% of their data is collected from us. Honeslty they know shit about whats really going on they arent in the bush. Most are City folk with degrees that can get lost in a farmers field you think they are going through the back country in their fancy suits give your freaking heads a shake!!!!can you people not really see that. I'll give you the number if you want talk the the head guy yourself they are clueless without funds to do real field studies bottom line end of story. I could collect data from this site and everyone of you and probably be just as accurate as they are so dont trust what they have to say. Like i said make the call inquire you will see I did post the name and contact number in the summer search my posts and call. I can confidently say you will not be impressed with what you find.

The biologist over there is one of the best researchers in North America, nevermind Canada or BC. He's done more research, including hands on, than almost every other researcher/biologist/wildlife manager across North America. Before he started with MoE his DEAL with them was that he spends half his time doing RESEARCH, that includes out in the field. He's one of the first bios in NA to not only use but also CREATE noninvasive wildlife management techniques for wildlife management (ie genetic sampling and identification).

He's gotten money from all kinds of agencies, organizations and trusts to inventory wildlife. Since working for MoE he's helped get money for grizzly bear, caribou, mule deer, elk, wolf and moose inventory - even looked for wts. You will not find that in any other region of the Province, or even two or three regions for that matter - region 4 is without a doubt the most well inventoried and intensively studied region in BC. He's secured all kinds of money for research, been conducting transects for predator population estimates and a couple hundred other things I can't think of right now.

He's done all that in a couple years.

And yes he hunts.

I doubt he even owns a suit.

If you're gonna start talking about someone you should probably know what they do, write or who they are. Your post couldn't be any more wrong.

You, my friend, have just been owned.

[325]

I enjoy everyones opinions and perspectives it makes me often rethink my own, but one thing I have a hard time with so many of you seem to put so much worth and what these actual biologists say. Thats the saddest reality most of these people never leave the office 95% of their data is collected from us. Honeslty they know shit about whats really going on they arent in the bush. Most are City folk with degrees that can get lost in a farmers field you think they are going through the back country in their fancy suits give your freaking heads a shake!!!!can you people not really see that. I'll give you the number if you want talk the the head guy yourself they are clueless without funds to do real field studies bottom line end of story. I could collect data from this site and everyone of you and probably be just as accurate as they are so dont trust what they have to say. Like i said make the call inquire you will see I did post the name and contact number in the summer search my posts and call. I can confidently say you will not be impressed with what you find.


Your making some broad generalizations. Can you back-up that most biologists are "city folk" that would get lost in a farmers field?? Most biologists I have known have been morev capable than that....:-|

[Tenacious Billy]

I enjoy everyones opinions and perspectives it makes me often rethink my own, but one thing I have a hard time with so many of you seem to put so much worth and what these actual biologists say. Thats the saddest reality most of these people never leave the office 95% of their data is collected from us. Honeslty they know shit about whats really going on they arent in the bush. Most are City folk with degrees that can get lost in a farmers field you think they are going through the back country in their fancy suits give your freaking heads a shake!!!!can you people not really see that. I'll give you the number if you want talk the the head guy yourself they are clueless without funds to do real field studies bottom line end of story. I could collect data from this site and everyone of you and probably be just as accurate as they are so dont trust what they have to say. Like i said make the call inquire you will see I did post the name and contact number in the summer search my posts and call. I can confidently say you will not be impressed with what you find.

Your post makes me laugh because it's so ridiculous. Do you even know any Wildlife/Fisheries Biologists??? From what you've said here I'm guessing not........

[6616]

Regional biologists in Region 4 have completed the following in the last year or two: (Just to name a few of the larger projects)

Mule deer composition survey Dec 09, ground 2 days, air 3 days (Jet Ranger).

Region wide elk survey 2008, stratification flights Cessna 206 - 6 hours, inventory flights Robinson 44 - over 50 hours.
Developed full Region Elk Management Plan.
Conducted 3 year elk population monitoring project, radio collared around 80 elk, and flew many hours tracking collared animals.


Moose composition survey 2010, stratification 182 Cessna, survey flights Bell 206 Jet Ranger. Moose survey 2008, and moose population review 2007. Developed moose harvest monitoring program.

Sheep inventory 2008 and 2009 all known winter ranges - Bell 206.
Three translocations 2 from Golden one from Radium. Plus many hours tracking radio collared animals.

Goat surveys 2003, 2007, 2008 - Bell Jet Ranger - over 100 hours.

Plus office time assembling the raw data and writting the reports, unhnown numer of hours.

Plus preparing regulation submissions, writting proposals, working with external committees (eco-system restoration, noxious weeds, advisory committees, etc), developing regional management plans for elk, mule deer, moose, etc.

Plus working on provincial management strategies (Southern Interior Mule Deer Management Strategy for example).

That's just brushing the surface of the more high profile projects. Seems that "yes", there's a fair bit of office time involved, but I'm pretty sure they spend more time with their heads stuck in the bubble window of a Jet Ranger than they do in farmers fields.

[KB90]

Its really great to read all these opinionated so called self proclaimed biologist comments on the West Kootenay Elk opening........have fun boys.....when they are all gone......everyone will be looking around and saying.........What Happened to all the elk????????????? When they are all gone, the ones partaking in the so called slaughter will have no one to blame but themselves........take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you participated, playing into the Ministries hands. Its really obvious the government does not care about the Wildlife numbers or the habitat they live in. We as the public should not be falling into the buracratic BS the government always trys and does ram down our throats.......and up our A**es.
PS: Santa did not get shot....he comes to our house every year.....its whats in your heart....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you a biologist? If not you are as you said "an opinionated so called self proclaimed biologist"

Show me some facts, some science, some data, anything that all the elk are going to die..... But wait you dont' have any just your "opinion"



I enjoy everyones opinions and perspectives it makes me often rethink my own, but one thing I have a hard time with so many of you seem to put so much worth and what these actual biologists say. Thats the saddest reality most of these people never leave the office 95% of their data is collected from us. Honeslty they know shit about whats really going on they arent in the bush. Most are City folk with degrees that can get lost in a farmers field you think they are going through the back country in their fancy suits give your freaking heads a shake!!!!can you people not really see that. I'll give you the number if you want talk the the head guy yourself they are clueless without funds to do real field studies bottom line end of story. I could collect data from this site and everyone of you and probably be just as accurate as they are so dont trust what they have to say. Like i said make the call inquire you will see I did post the name and contact number in the summer search my posts and call. I can confidently say you will not be impressed with what you find.

This paragraph has no merit whatsoever. Do you know all the biologists or for that matter any biologists? Since you've made the generalization of biologists as dumb degree toting city folk, maybe I should generalize since you live in the LML that you are a dumb city person who has no idea what goes on in the bush.



How about since CURT and FIREGUY know all about the elk in the kootneys that we let them run region 4. Cause clearly they know whats best with all the studies they've done and their biology education????

I don't understand how people can think they know better than the people who do it for a living???

[6616]

I wonder how many people actually know how much work and time goes into doing an intensive wildlife population survey, and how many just think they grab a chopper and fly around for a day or two to arrive at a number....?

The R4 2008 elk survey for example probably took a month of planning, logistics, mapping survey blocks, studying methods and conditions of previous surveys, arranging for choppers, planes, spotters and other personnel, etc.

Then when the time arrives, pre-flight block stratification flights with a fixed wing aricracft are conducted before the actual survey flights occur.

Once the survey flights begin they must be done quickly to ensure consistent conditions, sightability, ground snow cover, etc, exist. Long hours and peak stress times.

Now they have reams of in-flight raw data and notes to assemble into charts, trends, ratios to calculate, at the same time making comparisons to previous survey results.

Finally after a couple months of hard work a 20 to 50 page report is prepared and submitted, which we hunters then commence trashing the crap out of and questioning it's validity....!!!!!

[Devilbear]

Both of these posters seem to have an agenda and it is not about conservation.

The GOABC would not stoop to sending "trolls" here, would they.......???????

[bighornbob]

I wonder how many people actually know how much work and time goes into doing an intensive wildlife population survey, and how many just think they grab a chopper and fly around for a day or two to arrive at a number....?

The R4 2008 elk survey for example probably took a month of planning, logistics, mapping survey blocks, studying methods and conditions of previous surveys, arranging for choppers, planes, spotters and other personnel, etc.

Then when the time arrives, pre-flight block stratification flights with a fixed wing aricracft are conducted before the actual survey flights occur.

Once the survey flights begin they must be done quickly to ensure consistent conditions, sightability, ground snow cover, etc, exist. Long hours and peak stress times.

Now they have reams of in-flight raw data and notes to assemble into charts, trends, ratios to calculate, at the same time making comparisons to previous survey results.

Finally after a couple months of hard work a 20 to 50 page report is prepared and submitted, which we hunters then commence trashing the crap out of and questioning it's validity....!!!!!

If you ask a bunch of guys here, thats a waste of time and money. I am sure Fireguy and Curt could have done the same things just by talking to their buddies and spending a hour a day in the coffee shop.:rolleyes:

BHB

[Fisher-Dude]

Hmm, curt and 4blade are devout bow/UBBC guys, as is aggiehunter. All "opposed" to the WK hunt. Maybe fireguy is too.

What's the matter with you people? Are you so screwed up about opportunity for EVERYONE that you want your own opportunities denied too? Even though you've participated in the hunt, is it your goal to shut it down and miraculously get a bow only hunt all to yourselves?

I smell a common theme among these guys, and it's incumbent on JT to offer them some guidance about how opportunity for all equates to opportunity for those who choose to bow hunt. I think he gets it, but I'm dubious about the ability of his members to do the same.

[6616]

I wonder how many people actually know how much work and time goes into doing an intensive wildlife population survey, and how many just think they grab a chopper and fly around for a day or two to arrive at a number....?

The R4 2008 elk survey for example probably took a month of planning, logistics, mapping survey blocks, studying methods and conditions of previous surveys, arranging for choppers, planes, spotters and other personnel, etc.

Then when the time arrives, pre-flight block stratification flights with a fixed wing aricracft are conducted before the actual survey flights occur.

Once the survey flights begin they must be done quickly to ensure consistent conditions, sightability, ground snow cover, etc, exist. Long hours and peak stress times.

Now they have reams of in-flight raw data and notes to assemble into charts, trends, ratios to calculate, at the same time making comparisons to previous survey results.

Finally after a couple months of hard work a 20 to 50 page report is prepared and submitted, which we hunters then commence trashing the crap out of and questioning it's validity....!!!!!


If you ask a bunch of guys here, thats a waste of time and money. I am sure Fireguy and Curt could have done the same things just by talking to their buddies and spending a hour a day in the coffee shop.:rolleyes:

BHB

Yes AB, there's a number of bimbos on here. There's also a lot of great guys who are knowledgeable and post intelligently who may oppose the WK hunt (Brambles come to mind) and many who support it. Some have no patience for people with a differing opinion, they are always right...! There's also many like yourself who are deeply involved with conservation activities and conservation organizations and are well voiced in wildlife management practices who must get quite an entertaining chuckle out of some of these posts.

[4blade]

ALL HAIL FISHER DUDE,i bow down before your infinite wisdom in reading whatYOU want to out of POSTS on this site.people are just expressing THERE opinions .I think you need to GROW UP and quit bashing posts and NAMe calling on this site as it is turning into a soap opera.AS HUNTING BC TURNS.please refrain from the slander as i dont know who you are as we have not met so please dont pretend to know who i am.

[aggiehunter]

Fisherddud's been huggin' Goatboy again...just because someone is opposed or has an opinion on a certain hunt does not mean that if it becomes a legal hunt they cannot participate...I just helped a junior hunter get his first Wt Doe and as FD will remind you all I'm not a complete believer in that GOS either...didn't stop me from helpin out.

[curt]

I hope you guys are right I hope the wk Bi is doing a good job but honestly I would be suprised if he has his finger on the pulse that closely. When I talked to Steve Maciver in Victoria he told me they didnt have the funds to do accurate research in the fields I dont bullsh*t. Apparently the WK might be different... I'm hoping so. I beleive very little without proof but Goat guy seems to know whats going on out there so hopefully he's right. I dont know the WK guy I did however know the wk co until he moved to The shuswap. I know a few other Co's actually quite a few and their stories make me angry with how the whole department is run. Sorry if I've pissed anyone off, i am negative about the whole department I should try to be alittle brighter but it isnt easy, it is a gong show it really is.

[rocksteady]

One thing you have to realize Curt, there is 2 sides to every story and unfortunately the MoE is no different...

Most biologists are book smart and create the "theory"...PhD etc
CO's are cut from a different cloth...."Practicality"....

One influences the other (Bios influence the seasons) but its not necessarily a 2 way street...Not all feedback from CO's is taken into account by bios...

Not much different than the old Doctor/Nurse Debate, R.N. vs. LPN, university versus college, army versus navy, Yale versus Princeton, yada versus yada......Which is more right???? Take your pick...

Shit, I gotta get off the computer, i am starting to speak Jelly-ois-iano-ish...:confused:

[curt]

thanks rocksteady I appreciate your veiw point I take that type of conversation and learn from it. I am negative but dont get me wrong I live to hunt I love every minute of it.

[rocksteady]

Ah hell, you are not "negative", just the glass half empty type....:mrgreen: Call yourself "conservative", it does not sound as bad:)

Nothing wrong with questioning why something is/isn't, better to ask than be a lemming off the cliffs (Lemmings don't actually follow each other off cliffs, that's just another old wives tale, but if no one questionned it, we would think it was true:wink:)...

Damn, had another Jelly-rism :rolleyes:

[curt]

nice i like the humor thanks and for the record I'm not the enemy just dont trust the system.

[Fisher-Dude]

One thing you have to realize Curt, there is 2 sides to every story and unfortunately the MoE is no different...

Most biologists are book smart and create the "theory"...PhD etc
CO's are cut from a different cloth...."Practicality"....

One influences the other (Bios influence the seasons) but its not necessarily a 2 way street...Not all feedback from CO's is taken into account by bios...

Not much different than the old Doctor/Nurse Debate, R.N. vs. LPN, university versus college, army versus navy, Yale versus Princeton, yada versus yada......Which is more right???? Take your pick...

Shit, I gotta get off the computer, i am starting to speak Jelly-ois-iano-ish...:confused:

That's not true Rocky. My CO friends and I often discuss their meetings with the bios, and we talk about proposals well before they hit paper. The bios have taken a lot of advice from our COs on season changes and enforcement challenges. They meet often and email each other nearly daily.

We've also put proposals together that were accepted and implemented by our bios based on our conversations with the COs, and quoting them for support in our proposals. For example, we had a lot of non-compliance along the border of regions 8 and 3 where the any buck mulie season was 10 days longer in region 3. We based a large portion of our rationale for extending the region 8 season to match region 3 on the COs' input, and this year we were successful in getting that implemented.

[bridger]

The co's have a great deal of inluence on the bio's (as they should) in setting of seasons. the bio's and co's are a team. Sure they have their different viewpoints, but work well together. As resident hunters we are lucky to have the talented and dedicated co's and bio's we have.

[rocksteady]

That's not true Rocky. My CO friends and I often discuss their meetings with the bios, and we talk about proposals well before they hit paper. The bios have taken a lot of advice from our COs on season changes and enforcement challenges. They meet often and email each other nearly daily.


.

Hate to burst your bubble FD BUT, for example in the Region 4 area, several of the CO's I talked to were damantly opposed to the open cow/calf season but, similar to your responses, the bio said "this study shows blah blah blah...." and thier concerns were snubbed...

Maybe in Region 8 it is different but thats the way it rolls in 4...

[Jonas111]

what !!!

Santa got shot ?

Your hilarious. :-D

[bridger]

co's view changes to the hunting regs from an enforcement perspective and not from a wildlife mangement viewpoint. As a general rule if a change in the season suggested by a bio is viewed as creating enforcement problems the co's are generally not in favor.

[scope-bite]

Hate to burst your bubble FD BUT, for example in the Region 4 area, several of the CO's I talked to were damantly opposed to the open cow/calf season but, similar to your responses, the bio said "this study shows blah blah blah...." and thier concerns were snubbed...

Maybe in Region 8 it is different but thats the way it rolls in 4...

Really? what study were they referencing??

I'm all for C.O's giving their input on the ENFORCEMENT issues with new seasons but they seem to be reluctant to change, even when the biology says the season will be sustainable..I remember a lot of C.O's here anticipated a moose slaughter before the spike-fork season was implemented but you sure don't hear about that anymore.

[JCVD]

CO's are not scientists and should not be treated as such.

[curt]

Fd any idea why the region 8 season mule deer does not mirror the region 3 season for the late 4 point in Nov, that was the one season I was thinking would change?? It seems crazy that 8 closes weeks ahead of 3 in Nov why the F would that be?? all the region 8 guys migrate to 3 and triple the pressure there because 8 is closed??? I dont get it at all Mr Maciver told me in the summer that was changing then it never did:(

[curt]

No they arent scientists but they are out and about more than the Bio's are generally speaking, maybe not in region 4 as Goat guy claims but Co's should have a pretty good idea what happening out there as far as quantity of game ......no??? you would like to think their opinions and experiences would hold quite a bit of weight when it comes to decision making!?!?

[JCVD]

No they arent scientists but they are out and about more than the Bio's are generally speaking, maybe not in region 4 as Goat guy claims but Co's should have a pretty good idea what happening out there as far as quantity of game ......no??? you would like to think their opinions and experiences would hold quite a bit of weight when it comes to decision making!?!?

I agree to some extent their opinions should be heard, about as much as hunters should. Although I have never seen a CO on foot out in the deep woods myself, ever. They are not trained in the same way, do not do the same things and do not have the same knowledge, simply because it is not their job and they have many other responsibilities to take care of. In depth wildlife management is not one of them.

[cloverphil]

http://redriverpak.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/crying-baby-party-56800676.jpg
lolllllllllllll

[gibblewabble]

........yawn...........another "slaughter" thread.:roll:

SSS

Aint that the truth. At least you got to go hunting in the west koots for elk, which on the old system (draw) you would probably never had that chance. Don't beat the slaughter drum our biologists are some of the best in the world and they have data we don't, give them a chance. As stated above it doesn't take many bulls to impregnate a large number of cows and yes the bulls will get savvy and be harder to hunt but at least we all will get a kick at the can.

I agree SSS I am tired of the "sky is falling" statements being thrown around, who here is a biologist its like an accountant telling me how to weld, bah.

[GoatGuy]

Hmm, curt and 4blade are devout bow/UBBC guys, as is aggiehunter. All "opposed" to the WK hunt. Maybe fireguy is too.

What's the matter with you people? Are you so screwed up about opportunity for EVERYONE that you want your own opportunities denied too? Even though you've participated in the hunt, is it your goal to shut it down and miraculously get a bow only hunt all to yourselves?

I smell a common theme among these guys, and it's incumbent on JT to offer them some guidance about how opportunity for all equates to opportunity for those who choose to bow hunt. I think he gets it, but I'm dubious about the ability of his members to do the same.

I don't think JT is on the same program as the other guys you mention and from what I've seen lately neither is the UBBC.

To be honest, as an organization the UBBC has focused on science and sustainable wildlife management fairly well as of late. Rather impressed, really.

[GoatGuy]

One thing you have to realize Curt, there is 2 sides to every story and unfortunately the MoE is no different...

Most biologists are book smart and create the "theory"...PhD etc
CO's are cut from a different cloth...."Practicality"....

One influences the other (Bios influence the seasons) but its not necessarily a 2 way street...Not all feedback from CO's is taken into account by bios...

Not much different than the old Doctor/Nurse Debate, R.N. vs. LPN, university versus college, army versus navy, Yale versus Princeton, yada versus yada......Which is more right???? Take your pick...

Shit, I gotta get off the computer, i am starting to speak Jelly-ois-iano-ish...:confused:

Actually, COs are the enforcers of the law. The law is mostly created by stakeholders and politicians. COs have input on regulations, but it mostly surrounds enforcement and safety (their job).

Biologists are in charge of managing wildlife.


These are two extremely different functions.

[GoatGuy]

Fd any idea why the region 8 season mule deer does not mirror the region 3 season for the late 4 point in Nov, that was the one season I was thinking would change?? It seems crazy that 8 closes weeks ahead of 3 in Nov why the F would that be?? all the region 8 guys migrate to 3 and triple the pressure there because 8 is closed??? I dont get it at all Mr Maciver told me in the summer that was changing then it never did:(

Conservative biologist, conservative hunters. The doe LEHs in most of the south country are only token opportunities, they likely have little to no impact on the mule deer population.

[GoatGuy]

No they arent scientists but they are out and about more than the Bio's are generally speaking, maybe not in region 4 as Goat guy claims but Co's should have a pretty good idea what happening out there as far as quantity of game ......no??? you would like to think their opinions and experiences would hold quite a bit of weight when it comes to decision making!?!?

Depends on the CO, it's rather subjective. Rather go with 5 years of harvest statistics, 20 hours in a helicopter or a couple years of GPS collar or radio collar data than one individuals opinion.

[GoatGuy]

Hate to burst your bubble FD BUT, for example in the Region 4 area, several of the CO's I talked to were damantly opposed to the open cow/calf season but, similar to your responses, the bio said "this study shows blah blah blah...." and thier concerns were snubbed...

Maybe in Region 8 it is different but thats the way it rolls in 4...

This happens quite often and there are different reasons for it.

Like I said, COs do the enforcement and managers do the regulations.

Sometimes, a few COs believe they should decide the hunting seasons to 'manage' their workload, instead of managing their workload according to the hunting seasons. Often COs do have input and help create the regulations, but that depends on the CO and the season.

[6616]

In the good old days the Game Wardens in BC were part of the F&W Branch and did a good part of the field work, gathering data, doing inventory flights, etc for the biologists, and did have some training in biology and wildlife management, and their observations were more meaningful. They attended most rod and gun club meetings and were often very active in club activities, leading conservation projects etc. They were the main connection between hunters and the Wildlife Branch.

Those days are gone like the Dodo Bird unfortunatelly. Since then, changing their name to the CO Service, the members are strictly trained law enforcement officers and have no management or biology training.

There is CO representation on most of the Region Advisory Committees and they have input, mostly into their potential ability to enforce management proposals. And like GG says it seems they are more interested in making their job easy and appear to oppose most proposals that threaten put more hunters afield regardless of sustainability,,,, guess one can't blame them for that considering their manpower shortage and the reduced budget of the CO Service.

[BCrams]

[quote=6616;764516]In the good old days the Game Wardens in BC were part of the F&W Branch and did a good part of the field work, gathering data, doing inventory flights, etc for the biologists, and did have some training in biology and wildlife management, and their observations were more meaningful. They attended most rod and gun club meetings and were often very active in club activities, leading conservation projects etc. They were the main connection between hunters and the Wildlife Branch.


Yep. My grandfather did that down in the East Kootenays when he was working out of Kimberley for many many years.



Those days are gone like the Dodo Bird unfortunatelly. Since then, changing their name to the CO Service, the members are strictly trained law enforcement officers and have no management or biology training.


That also pissed him off with new CO's coming out who couldn't ID animals / birds properly when doing game checks and were know it alls.

[Devilbear]

In the good old days, most Game Wardens got their jobs due to being veterans of WWI and WWII and very few of them knew anything about biology while wildlife management was merely a misnomer for allowing the killing of game animals to an unsustainable extent.

I knew and was actually taught to fish and shoot by a number of these guys well over 50 years ago in the West Kootenays and the biologists were few and far between. There was little need for a biologist in the Kootenays until the "strip mines" started in the late '60s and so many access roads were built into the backcountry of the Flathead, Elk, Bull and so forth. The residents largely killed to eat and the game had lots of inaccessible habitat in which to avoid hunters.

In April, 1965, when I joined the BCFS, you would see hundreds of Mule Deer all along the Salmo-Creston and within five years, they were no longer there. The Caribou in that area were quite numerous and then the clearcutting of the higher elevations and "third band wood" started to feed "K-Ply" and other mills, more roads, no "Cladonia" on mature Engelmann Spruce, and now no Caribou.

We need far better biological management than we have ever had, but, hunters do not lobby for funds as well as "refugees" and other such groups, ergo, we do not have the "Moose and Goose" staffers and budget to do what should be done.

[GoatGuy]

ALL HAIL FISHER DUDE,i bow down before your infinite wisdom in reading whatYOU want to out of POSTS on this site.people are just expressing THERE opinions .I think you need to GROW UP and quit bashing posts and NAMe calling on this site as it is turning into a soap opera.AS HUNTING BC TURNS.please refrain from the slander as i dont know who you are as we have not met so please dont pretend to know who i am.


another useless jesse zeman paper ,whats an Hon BBA,info based on around 600 respondents


6616 you hear alot of things how big are your ears

Funny.



Fisherddud's been huggin' Goatboy again...just because someone is opposed or has an opinion on a certain hunt does not mean that if it becomes a legal hunt they cannot participate...I just helped a junior hunter get his first Wt Doe and as FD will remind you all I'm not a complete believer in that GOS either...didn't stop me from helpin out.

Personally, if I didn't support a season or didn't think a season was sustainable I wouldn't hunt it, especially if I was squawking about how it's 'going to be a slaughter' and 'there won't be anything left'.

"Because it's legal" is a pretty petty excuse, about as bad as it gets really.

Shows a lot about your character, and how much you keep your word after all the yammering.

Sounds like a rerun of the David Vitter story.......

[J_T]

In the good old days the Game Wardens in BC were part of the F&W Branch and did a good part of the field work, gathering data, doing inventory flights, etc for the biologists, and did have some training in biology and wildlife management, and their observations were more meaningful. They attended most rod and gun club meetings and were often very active in club activities, leading conservation projects etc. They were the main connection between hunters and the Wildlife Branch.

Those days are gone like the Dodo Bird unfortunatelly. Since then, changing their name to the CO Service, the members are strictly trained law enforcement officers and have no management or biology training.

There is CO representation on most of the Region Advisory Committees and they have input, mostly into their potential ability to enforce management proposals. And like GG says it seems they are more interested in making their job easy and appear to oppose most proposals that threaten put more hunters afield regardless of sustainability,,,, guess one can't blame them for that considering their manpower shortage and the reduced budget of the CO Service.

Yup, I used to ride with Ted Rutherglen and Miles Crowley. Those guys were the best hunter/sportsman recruitment tool out there. Particularly Ted, his knowledge of wildlife and hunters, and actually knowing hunters because he was involved in local clubs and programs is something we see less today. They packed a gun when required for defense against wildlife. Not as something to exercise their authority over sportsman. Today's CO has been somewhat misguided toward that of enforcement (only). I'm not slaggin CO's, just saying, "they aren't what they used to be".

[rocksteady]

Yup, I used to ride with Ted Rutherglen and Miles Crowley. Those guys were the best hunter/sportsman recruitment tool out there. Particularly Ted, his knowledge of wildlife and hunters, and actually knowing hunters because he was involved in local clubs and programs is something we see less today. They packed a gun when required for defense against wildlife. Not as something to exercise their authority over sportsman. Today's CO has been somewhat misguided toward that of enforcement (only). I'm not slaggin CO's, just saying, "they aren't what they used to be".

So, you are basically saying what I originally tried to say and got told I was wrong by FD.(see post #96)... The CO's before had input/opinions on seasons/regs that were taken into account by the persons (bios) setting the regs, however NOWADAYS they are considered as "enforcement only" so their opinions/input is not held to be very reliable by the Bios, and thus their field observations etc may be discounted by the Bios, who will generate the regs, as they see fit......

Thanks for backing me up....

[J_T]

So, you are basically saying what I originally tried to say and got told I was wrong by FD.(see post #96)... The CO's before had input/opinions on seasons/regs that were taken into account by the persons (bios) setting the regs, however NOWADAYS they are considered as "enforcement only" so their opinions/input is not held to be very reliable by the Bios, and thus their field observations etc may be discounted by the Bios, who will generate the regs, as they see fit......

Thanks for backing me up....

Well, the CO is still part of the decision making process, and actively involved in advisory groups as 6616 said. However, it's my experience that once regulation proposals are tentatively set the CO force steps up and evaluate the enforcement/compliance issues. They pretty much have to provide support (it affects their budget).

Having said that, today's world is much more complex and there is a lot more to consider. Back in the day it wasn't an issue for a bio and Game Warden to have coffee together, today it might breach their job description. And hey, the CO packs a sidearm and generally wears a flak jacket. Bio's have a softer side to them.

I do make a point of talking to CO's when I meet them and I admit, sometimes I'm surprised with their perspective.

[Devilbear]

Ted Rutherglen, lived just up the street from our ancestral home in Nelson and I went to school with his daughters, Christine and Penny. My best friend went out with Penny when we were in high school and I knew Ted VERY well and was at his funeral, I even closed my business out of respect for him and his untimely death.

Jim Robinson lived just down the street from Ted until the Rutherglen's moved to Granite Road and Mrs. Rutherglen eventually bought my Arizaga 20 bore, my first brandnew gun, bought with my first paycheque. Robinson, was the real deal and worked for the Nelson Fish Hatchery from way back when and was a friend of my dad's, one of the men who built the hatchery.

Robinson, backpacked fingerlings into many of the alpine lakes in the West Kootenays and was a really fine man, my youngest brother still has some nice English fly reels he gave us more than fifty years ago. I got a lot of sound advice from him on catching trout and his death came as a real blow to we kids, who really loved the old gentleman.

I can remember as though it were yesterday, Ted's best "strike dog", Jiggs, bawling at a Black Bear that came down our alley and then went up Falls St. and into the bush behind his place, this was about '59 or so. Ted was a character and he did it "his" way, no matter what.

I also knew Inspector Chas. Estlin quite well and he was one of the guys who taught me to shoot and also the one to whom I wrote my first letter of advocacy of the Valhalla Wilderness Park, circa 1961, age 15. He stopped my dad on the street and told him that he hoped I would join the "Dept". due to that letter....but, working for government resource agencies is NOT the fun, bush job so many seem to think it is, as I learned by doing it.

These guys did what they could, but, Ted's major interest was in killing Cougars and he had the same truck as my dad, which was often seen on Nelson's streets, with a defunct Cougar tied on top. Joe Guilbeault replaced Charlie Estlin at Nelson and I also knew him, the single best rifle shot and most knowledgeable gun nut I have ever known.

However, none of these gentlemen were biologists and while Ted was a genuine WWII hero, decorated with the DFC and certainly was a hell of a guy, the bios. we now have and those who I studied under at Selkirk College starting at 23 in 1969, are FAR more skilled at wildlife management. So, while we all like to give the grizzled old geezers their due, those of us with decades in the BC bush and who actually knew a lot of oldtimers, know who is the best resource for determining wildlife management policies.

As it happens, the oldtimers I knew who were the most truely knowledgeable about wildlife, were not COs, they were the late Russell Fletcher of Nelson, a highly intelligent and very experienced hunter and bushworker and probably Sam Kania, a trapper in "the Little Slocan".

I do agree that we could use some COs more like Charley Estlin and Jim Hart instead of some the the "dudley dorights" I have met in recent years, all uniform, pistols and swagger....like many young cops, too much American TV.......

[curt]

I could be and likely am completetly out to lunch here apparently I may have the wrong impression of the involvement of our bio's and I appologize for that.... but my question / impression is this. Would I be wrong in assuming CO's are out in the bush doing their checks talking to hunters and seeing the game more than the bio's entering dat on pc's to formulate their estimates of game densities now I'm just asking here?????

[6616]

I could be and likely am completetly out to lunch here apparently I may have the wrong impression of the involvement of our bio's and I appologize for that.... but my question / impression is this. Would I be wrong in assuming CO's are out in the bush doing their checks talking to hunters and seeing the game more than the bio's entering dat on pc's to formulate their estimates of game densities now I'm just asking here?????

You are right that the COs spend more time in the backcountry, talk to more hunters, maybe even see more game, but most of that information would really be irrevalent to the data sheets.

When population surveys are taken, they have to be done systematically, survey block by survey block, and they must be done quickly (over a period of a few days) to mimimize counting the same animals twice due to natural movements. They start at one end of the study area and work their way across consecutive survey blocks one at a time flying transects.

So they conduct a survey, and have all their data, and a CO comes in and says "I saw 12 elk out in X Creek yesterday", what real value is that to the bio, he has no idea if he's already counted those elk or not, and a dozen or so elk out of several thousand isn't really going to make much difference when it comes to the important data like bull/cow or calf/cow ratios anyway.

The bios are out in the field more than you thought, they have a pretty good feel for the gereral state of the wildlife populations in specific areas. COs and/or hunters telling them "there's not very many elk in Y Creek" or "there's sure a lot of elk in Z Creek" does have value to a bio and they do rely on these reports to some extent, but probably to reinforce what they already know.

Otherwise, recording random unorganized sightings and observations on data sheets is really pretty meaningless if they're not part of a scientifically organized survey conducted under standardized protocol.

[GoatGuy]

I could be and likely am completetly out to lunch here apparently I may have the wrong impression of the involvement of our bio's and I appologize for that.... but my question / impression is this. Would I be wrong in assuming CO's are out in the bush doing their checks talking to hunters and seeing the game more than the bio's entering dat on pc's to formulate their estimates of game densities now I'm just asking here?????

This is definitely a good topic.

The problem when you talk to hunters is you don't always get 'the correct info.' Just read the threads on here.

Hunters can go into an area with some of the highest densities of wt in the province for a couple days and come back stating there's nothing left or there's no bucks.

Guys on here who complain about not being able to find 'big bucks' so things should be on LEH, when there's a pile of guys hunting the same spots shooting 'big bucks'.

Guys on here who go into the Ashnola for sheep, don't find anything and then complain to the MoE. Clearly the sheep miraculously appear out of the ground on winter range, lying dormant under the soil all hunting season.

Guys who will hunt an entire season here in Region 8 and say there's no wt's left and the next guy can go out and see 12 bucks in a morning.

There are COs who will do their own spotlight checks or spring counts and they are certainly valid, but the problem with 'talking to people' is the information is only as good as the source and for some reason the guys who can't find the animals even when populations are high are the same guys who normally complain.

Just heard this week that there's no moose left in Region 8 and that it should all be shut down. :roll: A person really needs to have their head buried deep in that special spot to not find a moose in Region 8.

[curt]

Well.......ok I am man enough to say that I may have been alittle hasty with my negative opinion about this. A couple of you have brought this topic more to light for me and I truly hope things are playing out how you are saying!?!?!?!? All I know is over the yrs I've seen plenty of CO's but never a Bio but i guesss that doesnt mean sh*t in the big picture. If by chance there are some Bio's around reading these posts I appologize if I have had misleading opinions on your work. I was told be a senior project officer who btw is one heck of a nice guy to talk to but anyway, he told me there wasnt the funds to do an accurate field study of the mule deer issue in region 5. I assumed things would be no different anywhere else its one big service is it not??? is there different funding for different area's if so i wouldnt guess that. Well this thread created one heck of a stir but I'm done here good luck to everyone for the rest of this season no better time of year in my opinion.
CM

[6616]

MOE Bios are human too, a couple are opinionated dicks, most are good people thankfully, some have very conservative management ideals, some have more agressive management ideals, but there's all kinds and it does somethimes reflect in different management attitudes in different regions.

Also different regions have different priorities, Regions with sheep usually make sheep their highest priority. Elk and goats are obviously high priorities in Region 4, moose in Region 7a, for example.

Bios are also like farmers, there's never enough money, there's always more research needed, the habitat is never good enough, it's too dry, it's too wet,,,,,some complain constantly about money and it turns out they are possibly the best funded ones in the province. Some never complain and as a result are the poorest funded in the province.

MOE Bios avoid going out in the field during hunting season, probably because there's too many people trying to tell them how to do their job. Many of their vehicles do not even have the Ministry decals kits, none of them have the strobe lights, and they don't wear uniforms like COs, so they usually appear as just another truck on the road that no one pays any atention to.

[Fisher-Dude]

Just heard this week that there's no moose left in Region 8 and that it should all be shut down. :roll: A person really needs to have their head buried deep in that special spot to not find a moose in Region 8.

Really? I saw 3 yesterday and 7 this morning, plus heard another one grunting that wouldn't come out of the spruce/balsam for a visit. I think they should be on GOS, any bull. They are over-populated. :twisted:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Really? I saw 3 yesterday and 7 this morning, plus heard another one grunting that wouldn't come out of the spruce/balsam for a visit. I think they should be on GOS, any bull. They are over-populated. :twisted:

We got some helicopter time donated to do a more thorough moose count this coming winter. Just got to pay for fuel. I think someone from our club knows the heli company's owner?
Hopefully, the numbers will show what "most" are seeing for themselves....and they adjust the season back at least to what it was.

SSS

[325]

Well.......ok I am man enough to say that I may have been alittle hasty with my negative opinion about this. A couple of you have brought this topic more to light for me and I truly hope things are playing out how you are saying!?!?!?!? All I know is over the yrs I've seen plenty of CO's but never a Bio but i guesss that doesnt mean sh*t in the big picture. If by chance there are some Bio's around reading these posts I appologize if I have had misleading opinions on your work. I was told be a senior project officer who btw is one heck of a nice guy to talk to but anyway, he told me there wasnt the funds to do an accurate field study of the mule deer issue in region 5. I assumed things would be no different anywhere else its one big service is it not??? is there different funding for different area's if so i wouldnt guess that. Well this thread created one heck of a stir but I'm done here good luck to everyone for the rest of this season no better time of year in my opinion.
CM

It takes a true man to admit that he may have been wrong. You've separated yourself from the boys.

[palmer]

Lots of Moose in Region 8 and the WK Elk season was great....took all the pressure off 8-15....and Yes after years of an open season now, there are still plenty of Elk left