Guide Territory etc??

[emerson]

I don't know where to post this...I was passing time reading the govt. stuff online and got curious. How are guide territories awarded(?), transfered etc? How are guides qualified? The govt website seemed a bit simplistic, like they were leaving out significant portions. Thanks.

[emerson]

Nothing?? Is this the "third rail" of hunting forums?

[guest]

Call the guide outfitters association ....... they will answer your Q's.

CT

[emerson]

I see, it is as I suspected. Those who guide, guard the gate to the business.

[BromBones]

Any areas that are sold, the sale has to be approved by the regional manager. It's not a private sale, all the applicants involved (who will hold the certificate, agents, etc) have to be listed. To get an outfitters license, you have to be at least 19 and a Canadian citizen or permanent resident, and I believe have held an assistant guide license for a certain number of years.

To get a basic assistant guides license, all you have to do is find employment with an outfitter and he/she will apply for your license. You don't really have to 'qualify'. There are a couple 'guide schools' which is a month or so training and work well to get you employment. I believe there is or was one in the Chilcotin, and Collingwoods do one in Smithers but the cost has gone up alot, around $3000. Lancasters used to run it and it only cost you $500, but Stan quit doing it around 5 years ago after a losing fight with the Gov and the GOABC to help out with some funding for the course.

That help?

[d6dan]

Emerson,did you look at this page??
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/pasb/applications/process/game_guide.html

[bruin]

Brombones pretty much summed it up. To be an outfitter you have to have been an assistant guide for 2 years and pass an exam on the wildlife act I believe.

[Amphibious]

I see, it is as I suspected. Those who guide, guard the gate to the business.


wow, you're not going into this with a pre-formed opinion at all....

Brombones is Correct. many guiding territories, like the one I work in, are passed down through family. not all of them are offshore owned.

[emerson]

Any areas that are sold, the sale has to be approved by the regional manager. It's not a private sale, all the applicants involved (who will hold the certificate, agents, etc) have to be listed. To get an outfitters license, you have to be at least 19 and a Canadian citizen or permanent resident, and I believe have held an assistant guide license for a certain number of years.

To get a basic assistant guides license, all you have to do is find employment with an outfitter and he/she will apply for your license. You don't really have to 'qualify'. There are a couple 'guide schools' which is a month or so training and work well to get you employment. I believe there is or was one in the Chilcotin, and Collingwoods do one in Smithers but the cost has gone up alot, around $3000. Lancasters used to run it and it only cost you $500, but Stan quit doing it around 5 years ago after a losing fight with the Gov and the GOABC to help out with some funding for the course.

That help?
Thanks, that clears things up a bit.



Emerson,did you look at this page??
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/pasb/applications/process/game_guide.html
Yes, like I said about there being more to the process, application doesn't mean much if the territories transfered by sale or inheritance.



wow, you're not going into this with a pre-formed opinion at all....


In the real world, cynicism will put a person on the right track more often than optimism, especially when money/business is involved. That's not really a criticism, more of an observation.


Brombones is Correct. many guiding territories, like the one I work in, are passed down through family. not all of them are offshore owned.
Is offshore ownership common? Is this business model still successful, or is the sector in the midst of a change?

[emerson]

Note: For those who may feel defensive, I have neither the experience, intention, nor time to attempt to get involved in guiding. As a local hunter I would like to understand the business structure and function though.

[BromBones]

Is offshore ownership common?

Many of the smaller outfitters who don't have the sheep/caribou/grizz/big moose, etc. are family owned operations. A territory in the central interior for example that can produce moose, black bear, deer, & a few other opportunities is not worth a lot of money, maybe ~ $300 000 average I'd guess ( that's compared to some northern areas that are up in the million$). That price range is do-able for your average joe hunter if he can put some money together or get a few guys in on the deal.

The market value of the areas with Stone's sheep and the other high value game that I mentioned is way beyond what the average guy can afford. So unless, as mentioned, the area has been handed down through family or similar, most likely there are some investors involved, foreign or otherwise.

For the guy who wants to buy an area worth say $2 mil, getting that kind of assistance from the bank is next to impossible, for good reason. If the bank were to fork out the $$, they haven't really invested in much, other than the rights to guide in the area, and whatever cabins/camps/equipment that comes with it. There is not much actual collateral there, as the price of a territory is mostly determined by the potential of the quality & number of game in the area.

That's where the big investors come in. They'll lend joe-twelvepack his money, he'll hold the certificate/outfitters license and pay his debt back privately to whoever is backing him. Often it's 'unofficial' as to who is backing the operation. For an actual number of areas that are privately backed, I'd have no frickin clue. You'd have to start calling up every outfitter on the list and ask them I guess.

This is a big reason why we get guide-outfitters with a bad reputation for harrassing resident hunters. There is too much money involved, and that's usually a bad thing, especially when it starts to affect the way our wildlife is managed. There aren't enough of the 'good ol boys' left who were in it for the lifestyle.

[emerson]

Many of the smaller outfitters who don't have the sheep/caribou/grizz/big moose, etc. are family owned operations. A territory in the central interior for example that can produce moose, black bear, deer, & a few other opportunities is not worth a lot of money, maybe ~ $300 000 average I'd guess ( that's compared to some northern areas that are up in the million$). That price range is do-able for your average joe hunter if he can put some money together or get a few guys in on the deal.

The market value of the areas with Stone's sheep and the other high value game that I mentioned is way beyond what the average guy can afford. So unless, as mentioned, the area has been handed down through family or similar, most likely there are some investors involved, foreign or otherwise.

For the guy who wants to buy an area worth say $2 mil, getting that kind of assistance from the bank is next to impossible, for good reason. If the bank were to fork out the $$, they haven't really invested in much, other than the rights to guide in the area, and whatever cabins/camps/equipment that comes with it. There is not much actual collateral there, as the price of a territory is mostly determined by the potential of the quality & number of game in the area.

That's where the big investors come in. They'll lend joe-twelvepack his money, he'll hold the certificate/outfitters license and pay his debt back privately to whoever is backing him. Often it's 'unofficial' as to who is backing the operation. For an actual number of areas that are privately backed, I'd have no frickin clue. You'd have to start calling up every outfitter on the list and ask them I guess.

This is a big reason why we get guide-outfitters with a bad reputation for harrassing resident hunters. There is too much money involved, and that's usually a bad thing, especially when it starts to affect the way our wildlife is managed. There aren't enough of the 'good ol boys' left who were in it for the lifestyle.

Thanks for the insights.