West Kootenay Elk Season, Lets hear it?

[Rodd]

Since the GOS for west Kootenay Elk starts tomorrow, anyone that wants to show off there Monster Bulls can do so here... I have a couple of friends already down there and setup, and the Bulls are Bugling I've been told...... Sure wish I could be there.. Anyways Good Luck to all participants, and let's see if anyone can break the 400 mark...!

[325]

Since the GOS for west Kootenay Elk starts tomorrow, anyone that wants to show off there Monster Bulls can do so here... I have a couple of friends already down there and setup, and the Bulls are Bugling I've been told...... Sure wish I could be there.. Anyways Good Luck to all participants, and let's see if anyone can break the 400 mark...!


I heard from my butcher, that a massive 9x9 was hit recently on the highway. Anybody else hear that??

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Hwy 33 traffic is already backed up as far as Kelowna:wink:.

Wish I could be a part of the zoo.

SSS

[budismyhorse]

getting conflicting reports.......some say its a gong show and the bulls are quiet.....some say different.

I think if you know where to go to get away from the masses it isn't "that" bad..........

I've seen some insane trail camera pics though......some incredible elk are going to be whacked on friday. next monday should be interesting in this website.

and heck.....I care so much about it...I'm going sheep/goat hunting!

[325]

I hope people who take big bulls aren't afraid to post pics of them here. After-all, the cats out of the bag and we all know the WK hold some massive bulls. It's no secret.

[Rodd]

It sounded like where my friends are hunting, the pressure is nothing out of the ordinary, but its not open yet..... I would imagine many many folks will be headed out that way. My Friends have a jet boat to use if neccessary to get away from the crowds. I think the early bird is going to get the worm down there....

I'm as well am going sheep hunting instead, only a friend has a tag in Salmo, and wants me to tag along, but i've got rams spotted elsewhere, and one looks to be good from a long distance, maybe see him closer this weekend... We'll see. I'm really looking forward to see some of the bulls harvested this year from the west kootenays!!!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I also heard Tech Cominco is shutting down for 10 days.....nobody left to work:wink:.

SSS

[kootenayelkslayer]

I also heard Tech Cominco is shutting down for 10 days.....nobody left to work:wink:.

SSS

Haha funny. I bet it's not going to be nearly as bad as people think...and I'm guessing success rates won't be as high either. Wish I could head down there!

[LYKTOHUNT]

I also heard Tech Cominco is shutting down for 10 days.....nobody left to work:wink:.

SSS
That is funny, In my line of work I get emails from south of the border advising me that their saw mill will be closed for two weeks as "elk season is fixin to start"

[Rodd]

My office is in Parson BC, I've been seeing Hunting rigs going by heading south today on highway95, like it was the July Long Weekend traffic! I'm assuming most are headed for the west kootenays..... Man some guys have all the toys.....

[BCrams]

There are a lot of hypocrites that were totally against the WK elk season and yet, they're all pumped and just can't wait to hunt the big bulls.

Go figure......its 'opportunity' and when opportunity is given, people will "hunt" and thats the important thing.

[Brambles]

I heard from my butcher, that a massive 9x9 was hit recently on the highway. Anybody else hear that??


I heard a big one got hit by a car too, no specifics on how many points but it happens

[one-shot-wonder]

I also heard (from a local) that Natives have taken 5-6 big bulls of Sentinal earlier this month...... It's all hearsay.

I guess we'll find out come the wekend what it's like, cant wait to see some pics!

[kootenayelkslayer]

I heard that four 400" bulls all died while fighting eachother at the same time on the top of Mt.Sentinal, and natives took all the horns, but then their truck got hit on the highway and the antlers spilled into the river.
It's all hearsay at this point though ;)

[Alpine85]

Can't wait to get back there and check my trail cams. Buddys already got a big camp set up, will be joining them tonight!

[Alpine85]

I heard that four 400" bulls all died while fighting eachother at the same time on the top of Mt.Sentinal, and natives took all the horns, but then their truck got hit on the highway and the antlers spilled into the river.
It's all hearsay at this point though ;)

Heard that the natives then got the racks back, as they got hung up in there nets downstream.

[rocksteady]

[quote=one-shot-wonder;755564]I also heard (from a local) that Natives have taken 5-6 big bulls of Sentinal earlier this month...... It's all hearsay.

quote]

I have my doubts about this, as (Correct me if I am wrong) that there is no Natives/First Nations bands in the area (nearest - Creston (Lower Kootenay)), so unless they are from a different area, and laying claim to that being a "traditional" area, I think its just a bunch of Phooee !!!

The granola crunching, tofu eating, tie die wearing, birkenstock wearing, dope smoking, welfare milking, petuli oil stinking hippies from up the valley would never put up with "natives" harvesting elk in the "singing" forest....:mrgreen::mrgreen:

[kodiak10]

Just got back from town was parked on the street for 15 minutes.Could not believe the number of hunting rigs heading west out of Creston.It will be a zoo tomorrow.If I had not got my bull and new some area I am sure I would be there also.Can not wait to see some of these bulls. Good luck to all.

[J_T]

I have it on good authority that two large bulls were seen heading West in the back of pickup trucks on the morning of the 29th. I had heard as many as 5 large bulls had been taken. (hearsay) I checked in with MOE and did get confirmation of some harvesting of bulls by the Osoyoos band, prior to the season.

[Jelvis]

Your going to get some local west kootenay hunters really upset with a thread like this ..
Jel .. West Koots has some monster bull elk .. and huge mulies .. the secrets finally out .. Huge ..

[WKCotts]

I heard a big one got hit by a car too, no specifics on how many points but it happens

6x7 at thrums... nothing special

[Brambles]

I have my doubts about this, as (Correct me if I am wrong) that there is no Natives/First Nations bands in the area (nearest - Creston (Lower Kootenay)), so unless they are from a different area, and laying claim to that being a "traditional" area, I think its just a bunch of Phooee !!!

The granola crunching, tofu eating, tie die wearing, birkenstock wearing, dope smoking, welfare milking, petuli oil stinking hippies from up the valley would never put up with "natives" harvesting elk in the "singing" forest....:mrgreen::mrgreen:


The CO I talked to confirmed 5 big bulls as of a few weeks ago that were killed by Natives, reports are in the 350-360 range. They have been here since sometime in August. The Local butcher has also confirmed many elk and deer have been dropped off by the native hunters. The "traditional hunting territory" is an issue that the Government doens't even want to address.

FYI one of the Bands is from the USA, Collville, I hear.

[rocksteady]

Thanks guys... I was not aware that the Osooyoos or USA bands were involved....Allegedly :wink:

[averagejoe]

I have gotten word of 2 bulls over 350 down as 9 this morning. ones got 70 inch main beams

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I have gotten word of 2 bulls over 350 down as 9 this morning. ones got 70 inch main beams

You posted at 8:10 am??:confused:

SSS

[averagejoe]

its 9 out east

[Chuck]

The CO I talked to confirmed 5 big bulls as of a few weeks ago that were killed by Natives, reports are in the 350-360 range. They have been here since sometime in August. The Local butcher has also confirmed many elk and deer have been dropped off by the native hunters. The "traditional hunting territory" is an issue that the Government doens't even want to address.

FYI one of the Bands is from the USA, Collville, I hear.

That's what I've heard as well, and to be quite honest I'd stay out of the woods for a bit - just in case.

[kootenayelkslayer]

I have gotten word of 2 bulls over 350 down as 9 this morning. ones got 70 inch main beams

You don't waste anytime getting the rumours started eh? 70 inch beams?? Now that I have to see.

[Fisher-Dude]

The CO I talked to confirmed 5 big bulls as of a few weeks ago that were killed by Natives, reports are in the 350-360 range. They have been here since sometime in August. The Local butcher has also confirmed many elk and deer have been dropped off by the native hunters. The "traditional hunting territory" is an issue that the Government doens't even want to address.

FYI one of the Bands is from the USA, Collville, I hear.

The Indians have a new thing called "sheltering" where the local bands will let other bands come in and slaughter 'til their hearts are content. There's little to do with "traditional territories" anymore.

IMO, it's just so the Indians can make their "point", even if they are too lazy to do it themselves. Tough shit, whitie. :-|

[Jelvis]

Traditional is a provincial term under co-operation with local bands from moe and interim agreements, followed by those who respect the terms and conditions in the province.
.. In reality a Status Indian can hunt anywhere in Canada at any time by the Constitution of Canada .. that is still the same ..
Jel .. In Kamloops courts a Status Indian will not be charged for hunting offences because of the slight chance of conviction, same in Cranbrook where I know of three cases that were lost and the rest thrown out ..
......Interim agreements between provincial and local bands won't stand up in Federal appeals courts because of the Canadian Constitution ........
Time to find some other reason why you can't get an elk ... maybe you don't know where to get them ..
.. If you want proof .. Look up Delgamook case .. Willy Alphone Jr. case and Sparrow Case for now, I can give you dozens more ..
Osooyoos Status Indians have cards with new cross border chips in them like the new bc drivers license have

[averagejoe]

[quote=kootenayelkslayer;756057]You don't waste anytime getting the rumours started eh? 70 inch beams?? Now that I have to see.[/quote

update. they under estimated the bull. they grossed it around 390. 71 inch main beams no point is under 20 inches .

i guess the camp just down from them brought in 2 bulls . raghorn 6x6s maby 240-250. wtf???

[835]

i'll be over there on the 8th. And i have no problem with raghorne 6x6

[sawmill]

God I am so glad I live over here,out of harms way.!Have fun boys,play safe and good luck:mrgreen:

[aggiehunter]

The Colvilles are the same Indians as the Osoyoos people...they are sort of like Elk...there are no borders...they are related and look the same. Maybe you guys should spend a little time thinking about who else is shooting unlimited numbers of Elk in the WK? People are still gonna be wondering what the hell hit them in the name of "opportunity"!

[Gunner]

The Colvilles are the same Indians as the Osoyoos people...they are sort of like Elk...there are no borders...they are related and look the same. Maybe you guys should spend a little time thinking about who else is shooting unlimited numbers of Elk in the WK? People are still gonna be wondering what the hell hit them in the name of "opportunity"!Ahhh,the voice of doom and gloom pipes up!Why am I not suprised.I'm sure glad that MOE doesn't listen to the armchair biologists/naysayers like Aggiehunter.There would be so few "opportunities" that we'd all be staying home. Gunner

[bridger]

Ahhh,the voice of doom and gloom pipes up!Why am I not suprised.I'm sure glad that MOE doesn't listen to the armchair biologists/naysayers like Aggiehunter.There would be so few "opportunities" that we'd all be staying home. Gunner


I doubt there will be a six point bull left in the entire west kootenay's after the weekend!! probably be five or six guys shot and left, all sorts of bad things going on.

[Jelvis]

I bet there are some huge mule deer bucks being taken as the hunters go for the elk they see monster mulies also, .. right or am I totally out 2 lunch?
Jelly Testosteroni .. no ball oni

[aggiehunter]

Gunner, Once again just pointing out the obvious...probably isn't about biology even though you mention it.

[adamgarbett]

It's wrong that the Indians can hop in our trucks with our guns and our booze and clean out the animals. If. They want to keep up with their hunting "traditions" hop on your wild horses bareback and use a sharpen stick or a long bow to hunt but that's just my opinion I guess..........

[SavageShooter]

Hunted in the middle of the "madness" last night in probably one of the most sought after areas. It was not as insane as being portrayed.

In the trees and off the road it was business as usual, but the constant hum of quads and quadbugglers kept you alert. I would bet 90% of the guys, as usual are riding the roads or just walking the roads within the road closures. The camps have been setup around here for a couple days prior to the season and there have been many guys "educating" the elk for a number of days. These animals are smart and will shift their routes and schedules.

All of these areas had their own LEH limits in the past with very high success rates so nobody should get too excited when there is word of 20 bulls coming out of the West Kootenay area. I am personally enjoying the opportunity to finally hunt elk in our backyards, and now know how the EK guys feel in Elk season and how the nothern boys feel when moose opens up; seeing all of the out of town rigs rolling into town.

Now if only they could align the EK and the WK elk seasons to spread out the hunting pressure, I think we would be on the right track.

My 2 bits.

SS

[aggiehunter]

Savage...it would be interesting (if possible) to compare the success rate from LEH to GOS...maybe something gov't should have thought about...or did they?

[BCrams]

Savage...it would be interesting (if possible) to compare the success rate from LEH to GOS...maybe something gov't should have thought about...or did they?

Still the pessimist.

Harvest may naturally be a little higher than LEH the first year or two but will then drop off and stabilize.

Hope you're enjoying the opportunity hunting the WK elk!!

[ARC]

Savage...it would be interesting (if possible) to compare the success rate from LEH to GOS...maybe something gov't should have thought about...or did they?

I would like to see the difference in harvest between GOS and LEH as well, but with no cumpulsor inspection/reporting it will be tough to tell.

[Gunner]

When 8-15 went from LEH to GOS the number of bulls harvested stayed close to the previous harvest.Of course all bulls taken were 6 points instead of the mix taken under LEH.That does not affect the breeding dynamics or genetic tendencies of the herd,and I haven't had anyone tell me there are no more elk at Christina Lake.If it worked there why not the West Koots,with more elk and a MUCH larger area to hunt. Gunner

[Fisher-Dude]

When 8-15 went from LEH to GOS the number of bulls harvested stayed close to the previous harvest.Of course all bulls taken were 6 points instead of the mix taken under LEH.That does not affect the breeding dynamics or genetic tendencies of the herd,and I haven't had anyone tell me there are no more elk at Christina Lake.If it worked there why not the West Koots,with more elk and a MUCH larger area to hunt. Gunner

Harvest under LEH in 8-15 averaged 15 bulls, under the early LEH/late GOS it was 17 bulls. Statistically, there was NO increase in harvest.

Of course, naggiehunter was spewing his doomsday predictions of a "slaughter" then, too. I wonder if he even hunts?

[6616]

Savage...it would be interesting (if possible) to compare the success rate from LEH to GOS...maybe something gov't should have thought about...or did they?

Of couse they did, and it's really of no concern. It doesn't matter what the success rate is/was/will be, all that really matters is how many bulls get killed. You can't realistically compare success rates between LEH and GOS hunts and expect to get any relevant information,,, especially with a first year GOS after a long period of LEH. What difference would it really make anyway...?

There will be many more hunters this year than previous years under LEH, but many of them will not be familiar with the terrain or elk habits, many will just be opportunists cruising the roads looking for an easy bull. The success rate will be away down compared to the previous LEH hunt but the bull kill will be higher. How much higher remains to be seen, but I would not get alarmed, this is not the open forest country of the south Trench.

I have heard the slaughter predictions many times, actually every time a major regulation change is initiated,,,,, but I've not once ever witnessed it actually happen. You guys should at least give "a little" credit to the managers/bios for knowing what they are doing.......??????

Out of a population of 4000 elk in the Nelson GMZ and a 40 bulls per 100 cows ratio it would easily be sustainable to harvest 250 or more bulls no problem. That's almost twice as many as in previous years.

Seems to me I remember some doomsday and slaughter predictions regarding the East kootenay WTD doe GOS, and now that it's about to happen it becomes obvious to experienced hunters that it won't even put a little dent in the WTD population, similiar to the cow elk GOS we just had.

Time to relax and go with the flow Ernie and quit worrying yourself into a heart attack every time a slight regulation change comes along.

[Jelvis]

Do not forget three little reg changes add up to 3 not one and that should be scientifically done by a new trel body .. looking at all, all the facts, that's all you want, then I'll go for the figures lol .. I was smart in night school but dumber than dumb in the day time .. lol .. I only went at night .. anyways ah, your opinions are known by all now so time to think out side the BOX.
Jelly ( ShamWows ) I'll throw in the SlapChop an a Graty if yah tell me in the next 20 minutes cuz yah can't do this all day!

[Brambles]

A friend of mine took a drive into a drainage around Castlegar and ran into 60 hunters:eek:.....yes Six Zero. He talked to one group at their camp and they said "I don't know why we even came" they decided to just hang around camp and drink beer instead of hunt because it was standing room only. LOL

[BCrams]

I guess it will be those in the know and local boys who will most likely succeed. I hear tell my cousin was one of the successful ones with a big bull opening day. He was flipping happy the LEH entry was removed....."Now I can hunt elk in my backyard because I don't have the time to go for elk elsewhere."

[Fisher-Dude]

A friend of mine took a drive into a drainage around Castlegar and ran into 60 hunters:eek:.....yes Six Zero. He talked to one group at their camp and they said "I don't know why we even came" they decided to just hang around camp and drink beer instead of hunt because it was standing room only. LOL

I doubt that anyone who hangs with you can count higher than the number of fingers and toes they have. Although, considering the inbreeding in the Kootenays, 60 fingers and toes isn't really out of the question...:mrgreen:

[J_T]

There will be many more hunters this year than previous years under LEH, but many of them will not be familiar with the terrain or elk habits, many will just be opportunists cruising the roads looking for an easy bull. The success rate will be away down compared to the previous LEH hunt but the bull kill will be higher. How much higher remains to be seen, but I would not get alarmed, this is not the open forest country of the south Trench.

I have heard the slaughter predictions many times, actually every time a major regulation change is initiated,,,,, but I've not once ever witnessed it actually happen. You guys should at least give "a little" credit to the managers/bios for knowing what they are doing.......??????


Time to relax and go with the flow Ernie and quit worrying yourself into a heart attack every time a slight regulation change comes along.
Agree with your comments Andy. At the same time, while the Aghunter does tend to portray a most conservative approach, I think his #1 objective on here is to poke the hornet's nest. I'm pretty sure he's not on FD's Christmas card list.

I agree, there remains some fine tuning of the regs and first and foremost is alignment of the WK and the EK. Which I believe we will be working toward.

I grew up in the WK and it's wonderful to hear how many of my old friends dusted off a weapon this year. I suspect even the granola eaters will be considering the benefits of eating off the land. (ok, now that might be scary). Regardless, I'll bet licence sales in the WK is up, and in today's world, that should be measurable.

[aggiehunter]

BC Rams...no I didn't get to enjoy the WK GOS as I tagged out in the bow season...I don't think I'm being a pessimist by asking the question...really!

[BCrams]

BC Rams...no I didn't get to enjoy the WK GOS as I tagged out in the bow season...I don't think I'm being a pessimist by asking the question...really!

No harm asking the question!!!

I think it was responses when the WK was announced it was going to a GOS.

[smoothbor]

Well the gos for elk in the wk is here and all we can do is take advantage of it, I live here and have been out every day since it opened, and yes 60 hunters is close there are hundreds of hunters and quads, the elk are still calling but it has been slow due to warm weather. Mt Sentinel!!! yikes to many people for a small place, been seeing elk of the beaten paths in secret spots, but few 6 pts that caught my eye, ooops what secret spots, it is amazing where you see people, the CO is a close friend and good bulls are being killed but not as many as you would think. I think in a week or so it will be better, the weather has changed to rain today so they should move a little more than just first light, good luck

[Ghost Stalker]

[quote=kootenayelkslayer;756057]You don't waste anytime getting the rumours started eh? 70 inch beams?? Now that I have to see.[/quote

update. they under estimated the bull. they grossed it around 390. 71 inch main beams no point is under 20 inches .

i guess the camp just down from them brought in 2 bulls . raghorn 6x6s maby 240-250. wtf???


70" (5x20)=170....x2=340... i had a few beers but 340 with no inside or circumfrences.. humm. cprrect me if i am wrong... these beer may absethe laced. don't believe all that you hear.. do the math sometimes and call bullshit.

[meathead]

just got home lots of hunters few elk.we saw one yesterday but no count 6.most hunters i talked to very discoraged.Most peaple very friendly ran into one local very pissed we werein his spot.

[ruger#1]

I'm still waiting for the pictures.WTF. Where are they?

[Gunner]

A good friend just returned from 3 days hunting the North end of the GOS area.Plenty of guys,lots of wolves,and nobody with a bull in the back of the truck.Not exactly a slaughter. Gunner

[aggiehunter]

BC RAMS, My comments on the opening were based on my interviews with everyone I could find that had an LEH in the past...everyone of them was happy to have had the hunt and was devastated that it was now a GOS...a unique experience that cannot be and will never be duplicated.....so we will wait and see how unique the experience is for the majority of the hunters.

[Gunner]

LEH is designed by MOE to be used for conservation concerns ONLY,not to produce what may or may not be a "quality hunt".The MOE is mandated to reduce the number of LEH hunts around the Province and provide GOS if no conservation concern is involved.I have several friends who have hunted the WK under LEH in the past(I have not been lucky enough to draw).I'd ask them if they were "devastated",but they are all in the WKs,elk hunting.Guess they didn't get interviewed! Gunner

[Mark_S]

Opening day at first light I was calling in a bull only to have another hunter run up past me to shoot him before I could even finish counting points. He then informed me him and his partners had cut the quad trail into that area a few years and therefore had first dibs on the area. Regardless that I had hiked in on a trail older than any of us.

I have never come across as poor sportsmanship as I have seen here ever. I am sickened by what I have heard and seen so far.

[Jelvis]

People want in on the action, can't blame them for the testosterone over dose, they waited patiently for decades to hunt the famous west koots.
.. Some guys can get bold out there defending a spot they hunted for years for deer and bear. I ain't saying I condone this pushy attitude but hey Boxing Day Sales are the same if not worse lol.
Jel .. Get Off My Mountain ..

[steepNdeep]

We were mostly jokin' around about the impending sh!tshow... BUT I went for a drive to check it out and spoke to a C.O. that I know...

IT WAS A SPECTACLE! There were over 50 guys in this spot... were 30+ trucks at another spot and supposedly 100 at another! :shock:

Here's a pic... This is the third parking lot on this road within 1 km... I saw only one ~300 bull come out... Reminds me of a relaxing fish during the coho run on the Vedder River... :rolleyes:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/5050275808_93e4ebaa57_z.jpg

I'm sure a few good bulls will get shot, but I know guys that got skunked when it was LEH too... it ain't easy country.

[Devilbear]

I think that the guys who get Elk, will be the same guys who get them in the MUs that have been opened in the WK during the past few years. Last year, my buddy and I were there for a few days, until his family responsibilities made us come back to Vancouver and we found lots of sign and saw one real hawg of a 6x6. This year, he could not hunt in Sept. due to kids, etc. and he leaves for another region for a Goat LEH tomorrow.

I have not even bought a licence this year, had to turn down the last two weeks with another buddy in the Yukon and northern BC and he knows the area VERY well plus was asked to go on the Goat hunt. But, while I cannot get to the WKs this year, I am pretty sure that, other than a few "lucky" ones, most Elk will fall to locals who know the area and scout the game all summer and are fit enough to climb the ridges.

I know of one area, where I would bet that there are bulls that would rank in the top five in "the book", but, it is not easy to hunt and getting the meat out in warm weather is VERY difficult. I know of another where I used to shoot Mulies and Grouse and always saw big bulls, but, they were not open. I think that the GOS is a good idea and hope that it becomes permanent.

I hope to be back next year and many thereafter as this is the most exciting hunting, to me, of any.

[BCrams]

Pretty biased interviews. LEH was not intended for quality hunting or for the unique experience.

The point is there is no conservation concern, it isn't a slaughter as portrayed.....removing LEH lets people hunt. I believe someone commented that he knew folks who dusted off their weapons when they realized they could hunt in their back yards without trying to draw a permit they probably would never get in a lifetime.




BC RAMS, My comments on the opening were based on my interviews with everyone I could find that had an LEH in the past...everyone of them was happy to have had the hunt and was devastated that it was now a GOS...a unique experience that cannot be and will never be duplicated.....so we will wait and see how unique the experience is for the majority of the hunters.

[GoatGuy]

BC RAMS, My comments on the opening were based on my interviews with everyone I could find that had an LEH in the past...everyone of them was happy to have had the hunt and was devastated that it was now a GOS...a unique experience that cannot be and will never be duplicated.....so we will wait and see how unique the experience is for the majority of the hunters.

Get off the road in the EK and you'll have the same experience in terms of number of bulls, but in better country.

I know, sounds too much like work to be bothered. Rather bitch, moan and complain on the internet. So it goes.

[6616]

We were mostly jokin' around about the impending sh!tshow... BUT I went for a drive to check it out and spoke to a C.O. that I know...

IT WAS A SPECTACLE! There were over 50 guys in this spot... were 30+ trucks at another spot and supposedly 100 at another! :shock:

I'm sure a few good bulls will get shot, but I know guys that got skunked when it was LEH too... it ain't easy country.

I would bet there will be a lot of disappointed hunters who had unrealistical expectations and this will only be a temporary first year event, than things will settle out to be similar to the East kootenays during elk season - crowded but not impossible to deal with.

[Fisher-Dude]

BC RAMS, My comments on the opening were based on my interviews with everyone I could find that had an LEH in the past...everyone of them was happy to have had the hunt and was devastated that it was now a GOS...a unique experience that cannot be and will never be duplicated.....so we will wait and see how unique the experience is for the majority of the hunters.

Ern! Why didn't you talk to me with your "survey?" I had the 4-16B draw back in the 90s.

I guess you wouldn't like my answer, so you didn't ask me! :twisted:

I know your kid had the draw, and I know that's whom you "surveyed." I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. :mrgreen:

[Ruger4]

I'm still waiting for the pictures.WTF. Where are they?

x2................

[35 Whelen]

Spoke with a buddy last night. He says that between the two butchers in this area there have been thirty bulls dropped off. So who knows how many more have been taken without the use of a meat cutter or locker.

I sure the amount of traffic in those areas pushes the bulls into inaccessible drainages til the season is over..

[bridger]

sounds like the gos is a sucess. lots of guys getting an opportunity to hunt without waiting 10 yrs and an acceptable a harvest level.

[Brambles]

The point is there is no conservation concern, it isn't a slaughter as portrayed


I think its too early to tell, I had another friend that headed up another drainage and there were already 3 elk down on opening morning and they had one as well...that makes 4 on opening day in one small drainage, still 20 days to go.

Unfortunatly the MOE dropped the ball, they should have made it complusory inspection, or at least compulsory reporting on bulls in the new GOS area's. They did it with other MU"s in the past so they could get accurate harvest data, now they just gotta rely on the stupid harvest questionaire that mose people just garbage.

Most likely we will never know if it was a slaughter or not.

[bearheart]

I already have an elk from this year, got it north of Hudson's Hope. I would like to go to the west Kootenays to hunt deer though where is all this elk hunting happening so I can avoid the madness? Christina Lake? Arrow Lakes? thanks.

[Devilbear]

I think its too early to tell, I had another friend that headed up another drainage and there were already 3 elk down on opening morning and they had one as well...that makes 4 on opening day in one small drainage, still 20 days to go.

Unfortunatly the MOE dropped the ball, they should have made it complusory inspection, or at least compulsory reporting on bulls in the new GOS area's. They did it with other MU"s in the past so they could get accurate harvest data, now they just gotta rely on the stupid harvest questionaire that mose people just garbage.

Most likely we will never know if it was a slaughter or not.


Agreed, seems as if they are a bit "short staffed" and cannot accomplish the level of management which most of us would like to see.

I still think, all in all, that the harvest will not be a problem in respect of sustainability of the over-all WK Elk population, as Elk are "fast learners" and they can hide in lots of places very few hunters are willing to climb into.

I remember the first opening after the transplants of the early '70s and it seemed everyone got an Elk; however, many of these were shot on private property by the landowners and friends and the Crown Land hunts settled into a tough slugging traditional hunt. Some vehicle road closures might be in order to keep crowding out of the high country and things should settle into a normal hunting routine.

I did quite a few hunts up the "Santa Rosa" in the early 2000s and saw just hordes of 4x4 rigs, quads, camo-GT clothing and plenty of beer drinking "hunters" during mid-day. However, I have never encountered a single hunter when backpacking the ridges there and I suspect that will be the case with this Elk hunt, too.

The WK, especially with some changes to wildfire management policy, is ideal Elk country and they can and will thrive there even with this GOS.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Even if they killed every 6 pt in the entire area it would not cause a conservation concern......just a "social" concern.

SSS

[Kody94]

I think its too early to tell, I had another friend that headed up another drainage and there were already 3 elk down on opening morning and they had one as well...that makes 4 on opening day in one small drainage, still 20 days to go.

Unfortunatly the MOE dropped the ball, they should have made it complusory inspection, or at least compulsory reporting on bulls in the new GOS area's. They did it with other MU"s in the past so they could get accurate harvest data, now they just gotta rely on the stupid harvest questionaire that mose people just garbage.

Most likely we will never know if it was a slaughter or not.

It has more to do with what your definition of a "slaughter" is, than what the numbers are. I don't feel CI would have gathered much useful info in this case, and you have to prioritize where your limited funds get spent for this type of thing.

IMHO, it is not really possible to have a "slaughter" on a 6-pt or better season....the percentage of the overall population is too low.

Most people view a slaughter as those infamous examples where europeans wiped out the bison, or in more modern times where hunters in Montana and Wyoming would line up to whack elk coming over the Yellowstone boundary. Whatever happens in the WK, I doubt it will include any "mass killing", and it can't effect enough elk to have a seriously detrimental impact on the overall herd given normal population dynamics.

I am sure there has been/will be the odd isolated "gong show", but those happen in pretty much every region, every year.

JMHO.

[Devilbear]

Point well taken, Chris, however, I would prefer to see very close monitoring of the harvest level as I hope to see a 3-pt. and bigger GOS implemented in the Kootenays so we old geezers can shoot "eatin" Elk to feed our creaky ancient bods some "organic" meat.

I have passed in some years on legal hawgs of Elk, because I could never have backpacked the meat out and since my nephew has moved to Austrailia, I have no young guys to help me.

I hunt for enjoyment first and then meat and I think most guys do, so, I favour a management "prescription" that will tend to produce the maximum number of "meat" Elk, Deer and thus give more BC hunters a chance to bring home Elk meat.

[Rodd]

Friend of mine came back with no Elk, passed on a nice 6x5 on opening morning, and it seems the mass hunters got the best of them, and they returned. He told me if its got 6 points, its dead!
Although I understand their frustrations. I know Elk here in the EK have prosper'd since the 6pt or better season. There are many more elk sightings and fun being had Elk hunting, I personally consider point counting hunting a different art, than hunting in general. My eyes aren't what they used to be, and counting tines when elk are moving in early morning light, or late evening light is nearly impossible at times, unless I'm within Bow range... Optics just don't cut it when trying to count points in low light further than 150yds.... Thus my un-successful season thus far, seen many bulls and have action nearly everytime out, and have watched the big herd bull walk away more times than I prefer, even though I know its a six point, my eyes can't confirm, and thus he walks... I know though that through perseverance my time will come and the point count will happen as it has many times in the past. Just find it frustrating many times... and creates the possibility of someone(Junior/in-experienced hunter) making a mistake under excitement of the hunt. Having said that I'm seeing plenty of elk, and thats reassuring for the future hunts. I hunt for the recreation first as I believe someone else mentioned on here, and I've had my share of recreation this fall already, No GOS season on 6 point bulls is going to hurt anything as far as populations are concerned. I think it'll educate those bulls that haven't had much pressure, to be be smarter and learn how to use those avoidance senses they are full of to evade the hunters as they do in the EK. The Bull I'm Hunting is as smart as they come... It just adds fuel to the fire, and makes me hunt harder, and smarter, and the rewards even greater once success is achieved. my 2 cents....

Still no pictures of any big bulls on here..... So much for a slaughter... haha! Good luck to all my fellow hunters!

[goatdancer]

[
Here's a pic... This is the third parking lot on this road within 1 km... I saw only one ~300 bull come out... Reminds me of a relaxing fish during the coho run on the Vedder River... :rolleyes:

Right on the money. It was like that this weekend on the Vedder.

[325]

My hunting partner got a really nice 7x7 yesterday in one of the newly opened MUs. As I already got my bull, I didn't carry a rifle, but did all the bugling cow calling, and found the bulls fairly vocal in our area. We didn't see any other hunters...because we hiked for over an hour. Lots of work getting it out, but worth it.

There is no over-all conservation concern with a 6 point season, and I like it because it may take the pressure off some of the other WK MUs where I hunt, that were already under GOS.

[Kody94]

This AM I heard of two parties from Cranbrook that did OK and had a good time in the WK. One group went three for four, with at least one pretty good bull in the bunch. Another group of young fellas went one for three, and saw lots of people on the way in but hardly anyone on the way out. Apparently the bugling activity was pretty hot.

Zone 4-03X was like a ghost town this weekend. :)

[Kody94]

Point well taken, Chris, however, I would prefer to see very close monitoring of the harvest level as I hope to see a 3-pt. and bigger GOS implemented in the Kootenays so we old geezers can shoot "eatin" Elk to feed our creaky ancient bods some "organic" meat.

I have passed in some years on legal hawgs of Elk, because I could never have backpacked the meat out and since my nephew has moved to Austrailia, I have no young guys to help me.

I hunt for enjoyment first and then meat and I think most guys do, so, I favour a management "prescription" that will tend to produce the maximum number of "meat" Elk, Deer and thus give more BC hunters a chance to bring home Elk meat.

I generally agree Dewey. It might be a long while before they'd attempt to go to 3pts in the WK though, considering the social issues! :)

The only thing that might stand in the way of going to 3-pts in the agriculture zones in the EK is whether enough cows are being taken!

I fear that not taking full advantage of this opportunity we have (lots of elk!), we are only one harsh winter away from just 6-pt bull seasons again (if we are lucky...it could have gone all the way to LEH last time!).

[Mountain Man]

Just got back!

Three days in the WK, Just pulled out and came home, if that’s what hunting was always like I definitely would choose another hobby! I spent every morning walking for close to an hour in the dark with headlamp on to get into my spots and listened to hunters whistling away on there bugle tubes and hoochie mammas. As I sat in the timber I just laughed and thought for a second if I was an elk I would be laughing as well!

It was hard to pass up the opportunity we all spoke about for the last few months but I regret going and will head now to the EK where I know I can hide! Congrats for those who put dinks in the dirt and continue to tough it out but to be a part of that was awful.

I should have been driving up and down the fsr in a beverage cart selling beer like on a golf course id be rich!!!

[Fisher-Dude]

Spoke with a buddy last night. He says that between the two butchers in this area there have been thirty bulls dropped off. So who knows how many more have been taken without the use of a meat cutter or locker.

I sure the amount of traffic in those areas pushes the bulls into inaccessible drainages til the season is over..

30 bulls from a population of 4500+ elk - sounds like they've barely scratched the surface of the 6 point+ component of the population. :smile:

[bearslayer01]

Since the GOS for west Kootenay Elk starts tomorrow, anyone that wants to show off there Monster Bulls can do so here... I have a couple of friends already down there and setup, and the Bulls are Bugling I've been told...... Sure wish I could be there.. Anyways Good Luck to all participants, and let's see if anyone can break the 400 mark...!
We are going on friday dont be late.

[Brambles]

30 bulls from a population of 4500+ elk - sounds like they've barely scratched the surface of the 6 point+ component of the population. :smile:


Kinda cooking the numbers there arn't you FD.

How do you come up with an elk population of 4500 for the WK, lets see the math

[Aaron Egresits]

Fisher-Dude. Give yer head a shake!

[358mag]

Fisher-Dude. Give yer head a shake!
Thats like asking a midget to be tall

[Kody94]

Kinda cooking the numbers there arn't you FD.

How do you come up with an elk population of 4500 for the WK, lets see the math


Fisher-Dude. Give yer head a shake!


Thats like asking a midget to be tall

Go here....http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/acat/public/viewReport.do?reportId=19918

and download the full report.

If you don't wan't to read it all (its a good read), fast forward to page 13. You will notice that the Dude has been conservative stating 4500 animals, according to the MOE's 2010 estimate anyway.

[Brambles]

Go here....http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/acat/public/viewReport.do?reportId=19918

and download the full report.

If you don't wan't to read it all (its a good read), fast forward to page 13. You will notice that the Dude has been conservative stating 4500 animals, according to the MOE's 2010 estimate anyway.



How many of those allegid 4500 ek are they guessing are 6 pointers

[6616]

There is a breakdown of the WK elk population by MU on page 19 of the report.

Total WK elk population estimate = 4860 (confidence interval - 2680 to 7130)

In the former LEH MUs it appears to be about 3700 elk, and in the Duncan/Kootenay Lake areas where GOS previously existed it is about 1170 elk.

Bulls per 100 cows varied between 22 and 76 bulls per 100 cows with the average around 66 bulls/100 cows with the higher bull ratios and more dense populations in the southern MUs.

On the 2008 and 2009 allocation spread sheets the bull population estimate used to calculate allocation was 850 bulls and target harvest was 85 bulls (3pt and better) in the LEH zone.

An estimated bull/cow ratio 0f 20 bulls per 100 cows was formerly used to calculate the bull population estimate for allocation purposes, probably to keep the target harvest at a conservative level. Also at that time the management objective was to create a trophy hunt scenario rather than a sustainable yield hunt. Additionally the target harvest of 85 bulls was rarely ever reached, in fact odd as it seems,,,, in some years they didn't even issue 85 authorizations so it was an impossibility.

There is no data in the report that can answer Jeff's question about how many bulls would be 6 pointers. However, due to the restricted harvest that was in place for many years I'd assume there would be a higher percentage of 6 pt bulls in the former LEH zone than in the Duncan/Kootenay Lake GOS zone. What those percentages are is anyones guess, although multiplying the bull/cow ratio by the overall population estimate should give fairly rough number of how many elk are bulls.

[Fisher-Dude]

Kinda cooking the numbers there arn't you FD.

How do you come up with an elk population of 4500 for the WK, lets see the math


Fisher-Dude. Give yer head a shake!


Thats like asking a midget to be tall


Go here....http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/acat/public/viewReport.do?reportId=19918

and download the full report.

If you don't wan't to read it all (its a good read), fast forward to page 13. You will notice that the Dude has been conservative stating 4500 animals, according to the MOE's 2010 estimate anyway.


The first 3 posters can kiss my fat hairy ass!

Truth hurts when you jagoffs start to beak about things you know diddly squat about. But, you sure have LOTS to say about what you THINK is happening.

Thanks Kody94 for digging up the link - although, there's little chance the naysayers will actually read it and learn a thing or two. They don't like to have their preconceived notions dashed by facts.

[Brambles]

The first 3 posters can kiss my fat hairy ass!

Truth hurts when you jagoffs start to beak about things you know diddly squat about. But, you sure have LOTS to say about what you THINK is happening.

Thanks Kody94 for digging up the link - although, there's little chance the naysayers will actually read it and learn a thing or two. They don't like to have their preconceived notions dashed by facts.



A little early to be hitting the booze don't you think scooter:wink:


The fact of the matter is they don't know how many bulls there are, or even any concrete numbers on how many elk there are.
The elk showing up at those butchers are likely from 4-08, 4-15, 4-16 and 4-17, so when you post numbers regarding the whole WK you're cooking the books.

I have a hard time believing that they say 3700 elk are in the old LEH zones and only 1100 elk in all the other MU's. That doesnt' sound even close to being right IMO

[scope-bite]

Based on the population of 3700 you would have:

1880 cows

1248 bulls - assuming bull ratio of 66:100 cows

572 calves - assuming calf ratio of 30:100 cows

If you assume that all bulls are 6 pt or greater in their fifth year and 30% of the bull population is >5 year old animals, the 6-point estimate would be 374 for the LEH zone, but with a 90% confidence interval it would be more like 204-544.

[eastkoot]

Five from Sparwood, five bulls, home on the 4th. No report on size other than legal bulls..

[sawmill]

Based on the population of 3700 you would have:

1880 cows

1248 bulls - assuming bull ratio of 66:100 cows

572 calves - assuming calf ratio of 30:100 cows

If you assume that all bulls are 6 pt or greater in their fifth year and 30% of the bull population is >5 year old animals, the 6-point estimate would be 374 for the LEH zone, but with a 90% confidence interval it would be more like 204-544.
I want to hunt where you do!!!66:100 bull cow ratio?Where do you get that figure?

[bforce750]

These elk are probably not going to be posted but I just saw a 380 class bull come from the west koots in the back of a truck,they got four,the smallest one was 320 WOW!!!

[scope-bite]

I want to hunt where you do!!!66:100 bull cow ratio?Where do you get that figure?

well you still have time sawmill but I doubt the bull ratios is still that high over here now. That number was the average bull ratio from aerial surveys in the west kootenays over the past 30 years. Hard to believe for an East Kootenay guy?

[Piperdown]

Fisher Dude for Prime Minister! Straight shooting no bull s_it, you get my vote :biggrin:

[sawmill]

well you still have time sawmill but I doubt the bull ratios is still that high over here now. That number was the average bull ratio from aerial surveys in the west kootenays over the past 30 years. Hard to believe for an East Kootenay guy?
Very.I see spring herds and wintering herds that have 10 to one ratio`s and they are mature bulls along with the puppies.

[Craven200]

The elk population cannot be harmed by killing males only....the USA has studied this over an over again. The point remains an estimate is as good as the "estimaters" MOE has provided numerous cow/calf elk draws for the WK which includes several MU's under 1200m. However, there is no compulsory inspection or even reporting of hunter harvest for these elk. For the local biologist to guess on hunter harvest or rely only on the hunter data questionnaires for hunter success, is the EXACT reason that he did not know that three bighorn rams were killed from the Syringa Park heard in 2009. An animal that is CI'd. In fact the biologist found it strange that 2 LEH authorization's for rams in this area could produce three rams....he didn't even know about the premier draw hunter who killed a ram late...until the Trail F&W club informed him. Bottom line, MOE has no idea what happens in the field....one reason their are no moose left north of Revelstoke...too many cow/calf draws....to try and reduce the wolf's favorite food...moose...now MOE is spending $$$$ to trap wolves in the area cause there are no moose left and the mountain caribou are at risk, go figure.

[aggiehunter]

FD..now you want people to kiss your FAT rear bottom part...man wheres Col. Hogan when you need him! As of today the WK has been officially .604'd....

[Devilbear]

I agree and would ask, WHO is responsible for this lack of accurate "bio-assay" work and the subsequent management prescriptions???????

The major cuts to environmental funding, which has NEVER been adequate in BC since the early 20thC. when the BCFS and F&GB were founded, began under the administration of Ujjal Dosanjh and were continued under Gordon Campbell. The MOE cannot do the task it should be doing with the chronic lack of funds and staff to conduct the studies that sound management should be based on, it's that simple.

However, major tax-funded subsidies of foreign students in BC's post-secondary institutions seems to be quite acceptable.........yeppers, it is the same old, dirty political game and most people do not seem to give a rat's patoot.

[6616]

I want to hunt where you do!!!66:100 bull cow ratio?Where do you get that figure?

That's the average for the WK from the report and the report also states there are some issues with some of these numbers, however the WK harvest has been so conservative over the last decade that the bull ratio is undoubtedly very much higher than over here in the EK.

We'll never see that in the EK. We have some MUs as high as 30/100 cows but some as low as 10, with the EK historic average being about 18/100 cows, again from Tara's just released report. Many MUs were below 10/100 cows historically back in the 3pt season era.

Elk have been surveyed much more intensivelly in the EK and the data is more reliable than the WK data.

The 2008 EK Trench survey report stated a bull cow ratio of 28/100 cows.

[6616]

I agree and would ask, WHO is responsible for this lack of accurate "bio-assay" work and the subsequent management prescriptions???????

I'm not trying to justify the cuts to the wildlife program, that situation is truely deplorable,,,,, but considering everything I think the FWB are holding up through inovation and doing pretty good job. Funding for inventories is being subsidized by the HCTF, and volunteer conservation orgs, and in the Kootenay's in particular by the Columbia Basin FWCP. Even the Min of Ag is kicking in funding through the Provincial Agriculture Zone Wildlife Program. The critical inventory and monitoring programs seem to be still functioning and the harvest questionaires are estimated to be 85% accurate (CI is very expensive and the CR data was of very poor accuracy). I think high wildlife population numbers attest to the fact that there is no gross mis-management occurring.

The caribou recovery program is a different matter, it's stalled by a situation of social interference by lobby groups who oppose predator control, you know who they are I'm sure.

[358mag]

The first 3 posters can kiss my fat hairy ass!

Truth hurts when you jagoffs start to beak about things you know diddly squat about. But, you sure have LOTS to say about what you THINK is happening.

Thanks Kody94 for digging up the link - although, there's little chance the naysayers will actually read it and learn a thing or two. They don't like to have their preconceived notions dashed by facts.
Patick go with your drugs dont fight them.
As far as you fat hariy ass maybe try waxing or lazer treatment , uless your better 1/2 likes it than way:-D

[mooseslayer]

I just got back late last night, gong show of hunters is an understatement. As per usual, most drove on their quads and bugled from the road only to get an answer from another hunter 100 yds down the road. As this is a newly opened area nobody seemed to know where they were going. The west kootenays is very unfriendly to road hunters, most of the time you can't see your hand in front of your face.

It wasn't much to see 60 hunters a day driving at first light and in the evening from camp. I think anyone who worked hard into more remote spots or had local knowledge away from the hoards probably had a great experience. It was easy to tell that the bulls were going to smarten up after the first day or two. It was some of the best hunting I've had (excluding hunting there with a buddy on draw last year), but I was also 2km in where nobody wanted to go. I did spend one day looking for some new areas, instead I should have set up a drive through for quaders.

It seems that most bulls got shot in the first day or two, then they just shut up and hid even further back from all the camps where I was I had seen only 3 bulls taken..... not anything close to a slaughter and success rates are only going to go down IMO. I would imagine this hunt is more than sustainable, gives hunters opportunity and feeds some money locally (not that they necessarily want it). I am sure most hunters will never go back realizing now how hard of an area it is to hunt unless you want to use your boots.

[Jonas111]

I just got back late last night, gong show of hunters is an understatement. As per usual, most drove on their quads and bugled from the road only to get an answer from another hunter 100 yds down the road. As this is a newly opened area nobody seemed to know where they were going. The west kootenays is very unfriendly to road hunters, most of the time you can't see your hand in front of your face.

It wasn't much to see 60 hunters a day driving at first light and in the evening from camp. I think anyone who worked hard into more remote spots or had local knowledge away from the hoards probably had a great experience. It was easy to tell that the bulls were going to smarten up after the first day or two. It was some of the best hunting I've had (excluding hunting there with a buddy on draw last year), but I was also 2km in where nobody wanted to go. I did spend one day looking for some new areas, instead I should have set up a drive through for quaders.

It seems that most bulls got shot in the first day or two, then they just shut up and hid even further back from all the camps where I was I had seen only 3 bulls taken..... not anything close to a slaughter and success rates are only going to go down IMO. I would imagine this hunt is more than sustainable, gives hunters opportunity and feeds some money locally (not that they necessarily want it). I am sure most hunters will never go back realizing now how hard of an area it is to hunt unless you want to use your boots.

Thanks for the update. I appreciate the honesty.

Time to close this thread and start another one.

[325]

I just got back late last night, gong show of hunters is an understatement. As per usual, most drove on their quads and bugled from the road only to get an answer from another hunter 100 yds down the road. As this is a newly opened area nobody seemed to know where they were going. The west kootenays is very unfriendly to road hunters, most of the time you can't see your hand in front of your face.

It wasn't much to see 60 hunters a day driving at first light and in the evening from camp. I think anyone who worked hard into more remote spots or had local knowledge away from the hoards probably had a great experience. It was easy to tell that the bulls were going to smarten up after the first day or two. It was some of the best hunting I've had (excluding hunting there with a buddy on draw last year), but I was also 2km in where nobody wanted to go. I did spend one day looking for some new areas, instead I should have set up a drive through for quaders.

It seems that most bulls got shot in the first day or two, then they just shut up and hid even further back from all the camps where I was I had seen only 3 bulls taken..... not anything close to a slaughter and success rates are only going to go down IMO. I would imagine this hunt is more than sustainable, gives hunters opportunity and feeds some money locally (not that they necessarily want it). I am sure most hunters will never go back realizing now how hard of an area it is to hunt unless you want to use your boots.


Great assessment. I agree that very few hunters will return next year, as hunting the WK is actually work.

[mcrae]

Great assessment. I agree that very few hunters will return next year, as hunting the WK is actually work.

Even for the guys that live here its not a slam dunk I have been out everyday since the season started and I still have my tag. I would like to say I am holding out for the big one:-D but..... it just has not quite come together yet for me...

[Kody94]

I spent the day in the Flathead yesterday (work). I drove down to Butts, and then over to 108km on the Kish. I did not see one single active camp...no-one at 58km, 62km, 74km, Butts rec sit, Butts cabin, Sage rec site, Proctor Lake rec site, Nettie Creek, 94km or anywhere on the Kish. Saw four trucks in total...all outfitters, moving horses and hay.

One of the nicest days of the year too, IHMO.

[rocksteady]

I just got back late last night, gong show of hunters is an understatement. As per usual, most drove on their quads and bugled from the road only to get an answer from another hunter 100 yds down the road. .

It wasn't much to see 60 hunters a day driving at first light and in the evening from camp. I think anyone who worked hard into more remote spots or had local knowledge away from the hoards probably had a great experience. It was easy to tell that the bulls were going to smarten up after the first day or two. It was some of the best hunting I've had (excluding hunting there with a buddy on draw last year), but I was also 2km in where nobody wanted to go. I did spend one day looking for some new areas, instead I should have set up a drive through for quaders.

It seems that most bulls got shot in the first day or two, then they just shut up and hid even further back from all the camps where I was I had seen only 3 bulls taken..... not anything close to a slaughter and success rates are only going to go down IMO. I would imagine this hunt is more than sustainable, gives hunters opportunity and feeds some money locally (not that they necessarily want it). I am sure most hunters will never go back realizing now how hard of an area it is to hunt unless you want to use your boots.

Very similar tactics and techniques were used here in the EK for the open GOS cow/calf season....Drive lots, walk little, go home disgruntled....for some..others were successful..

I think lots felt they could drive here and go home with a truck load, just like they were picking out an x-mas tree...Drive til you see the one you want:mrgreen:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I spent the day in the Flathead yesterday (work). I drove down to Butts, and then over to 108km on the Kish. I did not see one single active camp...no-one at 58km, 62km, 74km, Butts rec sit, Butts cabin, Sage rec site, Proctor Lake rec site, Nettie Creek, 94km or anywhere on the Kish. Saw four trucks in total...all outfitters, moving horses and hay.

One of the nicest days of the year too, IHMO.


Kind of like being on a Japanese tour bus....pointing out the "west" window and yelling "Grizzly Bear!!" :mrgreen:

Hope the W Koot Mtns don't sink:wink:

SSS

[Devilbear]

Even for the guys that live here its not a slam dunk I have been out everyday since the season started and I still have my tag. I would like to say I am holding out for the big one:-D but..... it just has not quite come together yet for me...

This, is exactly what I have been saying here since the first threads on WK Elk hunting began to appear. It is WHY I strongly support an open GOS in the area, as well as an increase in it's length , as and when it becomes obvious that the Elk numbers will support that.

The Elk are there and many huge bulls are among them, but, to be consistently successful, on PUBLIC lands, requires a major commitment of time, learning about Elk in general and the WK herds in particular as well as patience in scouting and glassing and a high level of fitness.

My younger brother and our cousin, some years ago, were young, extremely fit and tough and know the area. They took some major bulls in a place where one has to climb and backpack in very rugged country and I have come within yards and minutes of getting a "hawg" there in recent years, but, the only other twosome hunting that area at the time got to him first....that's hunting.

So, while I am always concerned about wildlife management and the impacts of various activities on wildlife, I have never worried about this season as relatively few will take Elk, especially after this initial GOS.

I hope to see the GOS extended to a Sept. 10 opening and the closure on Oct 31 as I think that this will spread out the hunting effort and give BC citizens the greatest opportunity to harvest an Elk. Those who are willing to put in the time and effort to get a big bull will have a real chance to do so and others will gradually drift off to areas where the "hunting" is easier.

All in all, this GOS as with others, will assist with the process of keeping sufficient numbers of resident hunters active to maintain subsistence-sport hunting in BC. This, is an absolutely critical issue for we who hunt or support hunting and any situation that enhances resident hunting will always have my support.

[BCrams]

I hope to see the GOS extended to a Sept. 10 opening and the closure on Oct 31 as I think that this will spread out the hunting effort and give BC citizens the greatest opportunity to harvest an Elk. Those who are willing to put in the time and effort to get a big bull will have a real chance to do so and others will gradually drift off to areas where the "hunting" is easier.



I actually believe the elk season can be modelled somewhat after the harmonized white-tailed deer seasons across BC and have it open provincewide.

They can also incorporate a 3 point bull elk season in the mix and have no conservation concern for elk and will encourage harvesting across age classes along with existing cow / calf seasons. (although it will be a 'social' concern, which is just bunk anyways)

[Devilbear]

I completely agree and have thought this way for some years.

I am not too worried about the "social" concerns, as most of those who vociferously oppose resident subsistence-sport hunting, ( and using that term constantly will tend to justify it in the non-hunting public's view, IMHO) are older "hippy" types of my age group and are slowly succumbing to the inevitable ravages of time.

If, we as hunters, present ourselves as BC citizens who are living close to nature and killing to eat wholesome food, as humans have done since "Olduvai Gorge", I think that we have an excellent chance of maintaining our hunting traditions.

I go to MEC's main store a few times per year and deliberately engage staffers in discussions about hunting; the response I receive is almost always positive and is far different than 15-20 years ago, when there were a lot of offensive pseudo-hikers working there and "attitude" was a given...and, I was one among many longterm members who complained.

[6616]

I go to MEC's main store a few times per year and deliberately engage staffers in discussions about hunting; the response I receive is almost always positive and is far different than 15-20 years ago, when there were a lot of offensive pseudo-hikers working there and "attitude" was a given...and, I was one among many longterm members who complained.

What's the MEC staff take on grizzly hunting...?
I'm sure you're aware that MEC co-funded the David Suzuki Foundation campaign to abolish the grizzly hunt in BC.

[Kody94]

I go to MEC's main store a few times per year and deliberately engage staffers in discussions about hunting; the response I receive is almost always positive and is far different than 15-20 years ago, when there were a lot of offensive pseudo-hikers working there and "attitude" was a given...and, I was one among many longterm members who complained.


What's the MEC staff take on grizzly hunting...?
I'm sure you're aware that MEC co-funded the David Suzuki Foundation campaign to abolish the grizzly hunt in BC.

I'm sure they've come a long way at the Vancouver store, but as an organization I don't think they have.

Their website has sections for posting stories, picture and videos about your trips. Try posting one about a hunting trip and see if it gets censored....I guarantee it will!

[scope-bite]

Just found this list of organizations MEC has donated funding to: http://www.mec.ca/Apps/GrantRecipients/enviroFundResults.jsp?region=BC

They've supported some credible organizations, but also groups that run anti-hunting campaigns (Greenpeace, Valhalla Wilderness Society, DSF, Raincoast, etc...). Part of your MEC purchase might be subsidizing the salary of someone trying to stop bear hunting, wolf culls, etc..!!

[charbrc]

Was out for the day in the Pend O'reille valley. NO elk bugling and few hunters. It is way to warm. 4-08.

[islandboy]

If, we as hunters, present ourselves as BC citizens who are living close to nature and killing to eat wholesome food, as humans have done since "Olduvai Gorge", I think that we have an excellent chance of maintaining our hunting traditions.

Absolutely. It is all about how the "voting" public view us - our responsibility is the presentation. Ultimately they control our future.



Their website has sections for posting stories, picture and videos about your trips. Try posting one about a hunting trip and see if it gets censored....I guarantee it will!

If you remember your goal is to preserve our right to hunt and write up your story in an appealing way I would think it would stay. Emphasis on the effort that goes into training, learning new skills, ethically hunting for and cleanly harvesting the animal.

Write it up like we do here, where there is an expectation other readers understand, it will not go over as well.

[aggiehunter]

FisherDude, It's pretty hard to interview someone who's not man enough to say who he is...again the obvious...further to that I am not at liberty to say who I interviewed but you are absolutely right in that I did interview my boys (no-brainer). Heres' where your wrong...my oldest had the draw once and my youngest had it twice...two years in a row actually...all draws were successfull....good guiding you know. And yes the fruit does not fall far from the trees...damn proud of it too...true conservationist hunters with more thought for wildlife then themselves. Now there's no need to mention them again...you and I can disagree and even dislike each other on the worldwide web...no need draggin yours or my family into it.

[Kody94]

If you remember your goal is to preserve our right to hunt and write up your story in an appealing way I would think it would stay. Emphasis on the effort that goes into training, learning new skills, ethically hunting for and cleanly harvesting the animal.

Write it up like we do here, where there is an expectation other readers understand, it will not go over as well.

Been tried, on a few occassions...no luck. Tried to write one up as a mountaneering adventure, with only one brief mention of the fact that it was a sheep hunt. Sh!tcanned by their moderators.

The only way to get a hunting story up there from what I have seen so far, is to not mention hunting (or show a picture with a rifle or bow!!!) AT ALL.

If someone here manages to get a hunting story posted up on MEC, I'd love to see it. That'd be some real progress.

[GoatGuy]

It is statistically impossible to create a conservation concern for elk with a 6 pt or better bull elk season.

[GoatGuy]

FisherDude, It's pretty hard to interview someone who's not man enough to say who he is...again the obvious...further to that I am not at liberty to say who I interviewed but you are absolutely right in that I did interview my boys (no-brainer). Heres' where your wrong...my oldest had the draw once and my youngest had it twice...two years in a row actually...all draws were successfull....good guiding you know. And yes the fruit does not fall far from the trees...damn proud of it too...true conservationist hunters with more thought for wildlife then themselves. Now there's no need to mention them again...you and I can disagree and even dislike each other on the worldwide web...no need draggin yours or my family into it.

Didn't need to know how to hunt or hunt elk to be successful on those draws.

If you can't find that experience in the EK it's due to a lack of hunting skills or will power.

[Devilbear]

I would like to stress here, that I made my point concerning "antis" by using MEC as an example of what/where one CAN actively attempt to positively influence others to accept and even support resident's subsistence-sports hunting. It was not my intention to initiate a discussion as to the activities of "the Coop" in general, as they concern conservation.

The FACT is, that we are a small minority of BC's citizens and we have no "constitutional" guarantees in respect of our interests and activities. LIke it or not, society HAS changed enormously since the "Trudeau era" and we MUST learn to deal with those who may disagree with us, in a postive manner and present an argument to them, that will convince them of our social acceptability...or, the only ones hunting, will be those who do and I think we know who they are..............

Recriminations as to who did what when to whom are a sad waste of time and energy, I dislike Dr. David Suzuki, after meeting,drinking beer with and debating him, however, some of the environmental issues his foundation deals with are ones that also concern me. The eventual resolution of the question of BC hunting will come relatively soon. and, if we have as many of these people on our side as possible, then and ONLY then will we have our traditions protected and maintained.

[Kirby]

The FACT is, that we are a small minority of BC's citizens and we have no "constitutional" guarantees in respect of our interests and activities. LIke it or not, society HAS changed enormously since the "Trudeau era" and we MUST learn to deal with those who may disagree with us, in a postive manner and present an argument to them, that will convince them of our social acceptability...


I usually find DB's post to be very counter to my own view point, however on this point he is right. Its not the anti hunters we need to have understand us, its the non-hunters.

Kirby

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Didn't need to know how to hunt or hunt elk to be successful on those draws.


I can vouch for that:rolleyes:.

SSS

[mark]

I'm still waiting for the pictures.WTF. Where are they?

Heres a tease of a thread soon to come! :-D

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/../photos/data/500/medium/102_0077_Small_.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/../photos/showphoto.php?photo=20602&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=501)

[slicky72]

That's a great photo Mark!

[ydouask]

Devilbear, I'm sure on your wagon on the WK Elk as well as the necessity for hunters to actively impress as many folks as possible of our cultural need to hunt.

[325]

Heres a tease of a thread soon to come! :-D

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/../photos/data/500/medium/102_0077_Small_.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/../photos/showphoto.php?photo=20602&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=501)


Hurry up with your own thread!

[sarnold]

x2
ONE PIC!!!!!
thats pathetic.
everyone knows there are some very big bulls in the wk, whats there to hide?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Heres a tease of a thread soon to come! :-D

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/../photos/data/500/medium/102_0077_Small_.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/../photos/showphoto.php?photo=20602&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=501)


Geeze Mark....................with all the stories of it being a gong show over there, I sure hope you weren't weren't bugling while you were packing that out:wink:. Where's your excessive amount of flagging tape?
:mrgreen:

Looking forward to the details!

SSS

[aggiehunter]

Goatguy...that's all you got...attacking my hunting prowess...cheesh man don't you have a report you can quote or something.

[GoatGuy]

Goatguy...that's all you got...attacking my hunting prowess...cheesh man don't you have a report you can quote or something.

If you can't find the 'leh wk experience' in the EK, particularly during the first rut in bow season it's because of hunting ability or will power.