... but I didn't shoot

[domyalex]

[x-posting from CGN]

Had a sort of ethical dilemma hunting today; looking for your inputs.

Novice hunter here; after 4 unsuccessful trips last Spring, we went out today again looking for black bears.

Lo and behold, we stumbled upon a very respectable one with tiny, tiny ears, coming straight towards us and totally oblivious of our presence; when we saw it, it was aprox 80-90 yds away. Because of bushes, the only option was an off hand, unsupported position, but since I know he front kill zone is relatively small, I decided to wait jut a bit more since his path was more or less toward us.

For a moment we lost sight of him (damn bushes again) and instead of keeping coming straight he's now into the tick stuff to the side; I had him (her?) in my scope for what seemed an eternity; I observed him eating / playing around with stuff but was never able to see more than 15% of his body at any given time. I couple of time I was almost going to fire the shot, but in end wasn't really sure if I was aiming at the shoulder or the neck (or belly).

To make matter worse, I noticed a blue ear tag attached (I know it's not prohibited here, but not recommended either).

As you can imagine, after a while he just slipped out of sight and that was the last we saw of him.

Thinking in retrospective, I still wouldn't take that shot in the tick stuff; too many bushes in the middle to alter the bullet flight (~60 yds by now) and assuming a non-DRT, it would have meant tracking in a bad, bad place without being sure if it was really down. That basically leaves the initial front shot as the only option.

So, what would you have done differently? My wife is giving me hell for not taking the shot ("at least to try" she says) but I know my reasons...

On the other hand coming home empty handed 5 times it's starting to weight, but hell, at least I enjoy being outside and have a blast with my buddy.

Inputs?

[killman]

This is why you should have a semi auto. You can get at least 3-4 rounds in the air quickly and hopefully hit a part that may in fact kill the animal.
Just kidding you did the right thing.

[stitch]

You did the right thing.....why wound an animal and not be able to recover him. He isn't going far. I would try to get another crack at him. I watched one on Saturday for about 10 minutes. Had the rifle on him a few times. He was about 25 yrds away and really didn't care I was there. I grunted and he just looked at me and kept about his business. I had a tag and I was so taken by how gentle he looked that I chose not to shoot. He would have been my best one yet but I just enjoyed watching him. I think I'm getting soft in my old age. Get back out there....he is still around

[boris71]

In my opinion u did the correct thing. It is better to have a nice clear shot to make a clean kill than to take an obstructed shot and have the bear end up being wounded.

[835]

You did the right thing. Unless you are 100% of your shot dont take it. There are many skill levels of guys here that may or may not have taken the shot..... but.... You didnt trust yourself and you didnt shoot. So you did the right thing.

the thing i would have done differently?..... i woulda' found another bear that gave me a better shot! :)

[303carbine]

I'm glad to hear that you showed the restraint you did, it speaks volumes about your hunting ethics. Be patient, your bear will show itself.

[CanuckShooter]

You made the right choice, not to mention that in those thick spots it makes is pretty hard to determine if there are any cubs in attendance.

[Sundance1972]

Sounds like you can drop the "novice" part of your story. What you did was the right thing and you sound like a professional hunter, or at least well on your way to becomming one.

"A good hunter puts meat on the table. A great hunter knows when to let one walk away."
Something my great uncle told me about 30 yrs ago. Didn't make a whole lot of sense when i was a kid, but does now.

[xtremearchery]

Perfect! I wish everyone exercised that practice.

[Jelvis]

You need to go to the rifle range and get some confidence in your shooting abililty and then you can be sure of your shots and won't need your wife to tell you what to do
Jel .. it's obvious you lack confidence in your shooting skills ..
... waiting and waiting isn't going to solve a thing except a missed opportunity ..
.. animals only give you a open window for a short time .. go to the range first before hunting again ..
.. You need to be so good at shooting that it's up aim BAM! No problem with doubt .. POW!
sounds like your just starting out in the hunting department .. practice practice practice @ the range

[brian]

Your wife's advice is the worst she could possibly give. You did the right thing, you weren't confident of the shot so you didn't take it. It shows real character.

[mcrae]

I can relate with your story but mine had a happy ending. I spent two hours working on getting into a spot I could shoot at a nice bear on Friday. At 200 yards I settled in for a shot...Didn't feel right...Stalked closer...at 100 yards same deal...This bear was feeding in Alder berries and allot of the time I really had no clear shot...

To make a long story short I got to about 15 yards before I I saw what I needed to see and dropped him...I was lucky the wind was right and I had lucked out in the fact he made one mistake and moved into one tiny little opening or I would have had to walk away as well...

I would much rather pass on a shot and not have to worry about a crappy hit then take a questionable shot so in my eyes you did the best thing you could do and walked away. Keep at it and believe me it will all fall into place one morning or evening for you...

[Jelvis]

Sounds like a lack of confidence in your rifle or your shooting skills.
.. anytime you shoot at a living target you need to know your rifle and that where you aim you will hit or you will wound a lot of animals.
Jel .. Go to the range to get your shooting skills honed for the real thing ..Hi$ Jellyne$$

[Steeleco]

You need to go to the rifle range and get some confidence in your shooting abililty and then you can be sure of your shots and won't need your wife to tell you what to do
Jel .. it's obvious you lack confidence in your shooting skills ..
... waiting and waiting isn't going to solve a thing except a missed opportunity ..
.. animals only give you a open window for a short time .. go to the range first before hunting again ..
.. You need to be so good at shooting that it's up aim BAM! No problem with doubt .. POW!
sounds like your just starting out in the hunting department .. practice practice practice @ the range

I sincerely hope this post is full of sarcasm, because if it's not, it's full of crap.

Having all the practice in the world won't change that feeling when push comes to shove. I practice lots, but if "if it don't feel right" it's NOT.

You did the right thing, but you've read that already :wink::wink:
The only other thing I would add, is my doubt as to even shooting that bear at all. The blue tag makes me think he's a problem bear that's been relocated. If so, your never sure what his diet would have been? Not sure I'd take that chance, there's other bears out there.

[huntinnewbie]

You did the right thing.
1. You did not have a clear shot
2. You could not determine if there were cubs present
3. An ear tag is usually put there by CO's when a problem bear is captured and relocated. Not knowing the time line could mean a bear with tranqs still in it's system and is not recommended eating.

Great call on your part.

[Jelvis]

If you hunt wild life and your waiting for it to stand broadside in the open before you feel confident, you could be waiting a few years down the road.
Shooting under stress is normal when hunting, learn to quicken your actions under stress and aim at the vitals and let one go, if you are not sure of your shooting ability don't shoot.
Jel .. Practice the stress walk at the local gun club, it will hone your abilities ..
.. Sight center of mass, pull trigger BOOM! In my humblest opinions ... if you want to look and remember every detail b4 shooting it's ok too it's all up to you ..
.. I've seen hunters watch huge bucks just walk away and dint shoot .. takes a few years in the bush to understand.

[Steeleco]

If you hunt wild life and your waiting for it to stand broadside in the open before you feel confident, you could be waiting a few years down the road.
Shooting under stress is normal when hunting, learn to quicken your actions under stress and aim at the vitals and let one go, if you are not sure of your shooting ability don't shoot.
Jel .. Practice the stress walk at the local gun club, it will hone your abilities ..
.. Sight center of mass, pull trigger BOOM! In my humblest opinions ...

You made your point, but suffice to say, it's a MINORITY opinion. To each his own as always.

domyalex, not to start a squabble with your Mrs. But ask her how she'd have felt stuffing a bullets into that bear and never find it. There's many a seasoned hunter here on the site that have done just that. You think you have everything right and shit still happens. Let me tell you, I almost stopped hunting the one time I did it. Not a good feeling for anyone, especially a newbie. Stick with it, success will come, and deservedly so!!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

You can never make a bad choice when you choose not to shoot....unless, of course, the bear ends up chewing on you:wink:


SSS

[lineofsight]

You can never make a bad choice when you choose not to shoot....unless, of course, the bear ends up chewing on you:wink:
SSS

Am beginning to think of hunting a lazy hiking (walk slow, wait... or sit for hours), combined with playing with trucks off-road, and carrying a firearm. Though meat in the freezer is the primary purpose is almost seems secondary in relation to quality time and with that in mind being ethical & safe is a lot simpler.

Had not thought of it in terms of how SSS put it, fully agree though with the simplicity of that statement - things can go wrong with a bad shot but not with the shot not taken (well unless... as SSS also pointed out).

[tuffteddyb]

think you did the right thing also.
been there done that.
i woulda tried out my new squeeler i want to try and see how close it woulda come.

[Jelvis]

If you ever take a semi truck driving test it's similar to this thread topic in one way ..
.. If your taking the test and you stop at a stop sign .. and sit there waiting for the traffic to dwindle out, you fail that part, you have to pull out into traffic at some point or you fail .. bing bang boomer! Hesitation ..
Jel .. what you waiting for? If you had to have meat to eat, you better start shooting, but it's a sport, hunting is a sport so no big deal you can buy pork chops at Coopers today. lol .. have fun don't get so serious lol ..
Jelly (Jake Brake) .. hunting is a sport, no need to hurry thyself anyway .. Hesitation Harry or Panicky Pete?

[f350ps]

You need to go to the rifle range and get some confidence in your shooting abililty and then you can be sure of your shots and won't need your wife to tell you what to do
Jel .. it's obvious you lack confidence in your shooting skills ..
... waiting and waiting isn't going to solve a thing except a missed opportunity ..
.. animals only give you a open window for a short time .. go to the range first before hunting again ..
.. You need to be so good at shooting that it's up aim BAM! No problem with doubt .. POW!
sounds like your just starting out in the hunting department .. practice practice practice @ the range
This has to be one of the most moronic statements I've seen on here in a long time!!!!! Pretty obvious that HBC is the closest you've ever been to actually hunting. The comments you make are something I would expect from a teenager not an adult. K

[Jelvis]

I am a teenager. I'm sixty twoteen .. lol .. thanks for the critique you done this to me three times now and I don't even know who you are .. Ok so I'm a moron .. I got it already after three different times.
Jel .. Why does everyone want to kick my ass? Sassy Frass ..

[Grouser]

domy,
You've proven to be an exemplary hunter. You were not absolutely sure of your sight picture and you did the right thing. Don't second guess yourself.

What if you had botched the shot and put a bad injury on that bear and did'nt recover it. It could have had a serious effect on your hunting career.

I sincerely hope there's more hunters like you in B.C.
Your bear is just around the corner....

[Jelvis]

Everyone gets a little buck fever now and then, otherwise you wouldn't be hunting ..
Jel .. Be sure of your shot .. Every basketball player thinks the ball is going in when he let's the ball go from his hand .. loop de loo ..

[Gilmore]

The only right decision can be made by the guy looking down the barrel at the time its actually happening. You felt in the heat of the moment you had no shot so you didn't take it. Well done, some folks have made the wrong decision many times in this position. Some of them are even moronic enough to come on the net and compare shooting a bear through the brush to driving a semi-truck in rush hour traffic.:confused:

[Jelvis]

Another one saying I'm a moron, I'm starting to believe you now.
Jelly More On ... sorry I'm outta here .. I knew my opinion wasn't worth anything .. ok
Ps .. You did the right thing, keep doing the right thing cuz it's right alright right on .. your right I'm wrong .. lol

[domyalex]

Thanks folks, I feel relieved :)

@Jelvis, I'm at the range almost every weekend; I know what my rifle can do and I know what _I_ can do.

As per blue tag: on our way we were stopped by a CO; after quickly verifying our licenses he said he was on his way up to free a bear that he had in the cage. I'm 98% sure it's the same bear we saw later on, so tranquilizers + unknown diet (garbage?) gives even the more reasons for passing the shot.

I did have a long talk with my Mrs and I think she's seeing my point.

Interesting how being ethical becomes "sissy" in the minds of those that don't know better, oh well...

[Jelvis]

Sissy, who said you were a sissy? You just hesitated and waited that's no crime.
Jel .. Take a movie camera with you next time, then we can see what happened.

[Steeleco]

sorry I'm outta here ..

Well that lasted all of 13 min LOL At least your a good sport jellyroll :mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Ruger4]

Domyalex

you did the right thing 100 %

I'll bet if you head back in there you'll get a 2nd chance at him :mrgreen:

Some of the best hunts for me is just watching animals in their natural surroundings, not pulling the trigger , just watch em walk away , like a 150- 160 class whitetail last week sitting on my stand for elk, just watched him walk away..........

[Craven200]

Great judgement. I'd rather go home w/o anything than lose an animal due to a poor placed shot...such as the guts. There is a difference shooting an animal knowing where you are aiming, versus having confidence and being able to take a shot in a short time period. Plenty O' bears to kill later.

[domyalex]

When he was slipping away I even thought "oh... THAT's the Texas shot... no thank you..."

(using 150gr SP in .308 btw)

[budismyhorse]

put it this way......no one has ever told me a story that went seriously downhill after NOT talking a poor shot opportunity.

however......many many stories have been told about "the worst day of my life" ect after shots like that.

great job and great choice bud.

[jhausner]

The truth of the matter is the majority are right. If you aren't comfortable with a situation then NOT pulling the trigger is the RIGHT decision for you at that stage. I have passed on shots because of various reasons as in knowing there was brush between me and game, not quite sure of the backdrop due to lighting conditions, you name it.

As for the comments previous about more time at the range, that's correct too. I'm still amazed how many veteran hunters still spend little to no time at the shooting range. I would consider myself a moderate hunter, been doing it for quite a while but not so long that I have a huge list of harvest under my belt. I've hunted with guys that have been in the bush for 30 odd years and can say that I've fired my rifle and firearms in general more times in the last year than those veteran hunters have shot theirs in their entire 30 year hunting life.

So advice given to go shoot more at the range is never bad. That doesn't mean it will make you 100% confident in all situations. On the contrary, to me the less reluctant you are to pulling the trigger, the safer a hunter you are and the more I'd want to hunt with you. The guys that run around taking shots everywhere and assuming they are the best shot since Jesse James are the guys you want to avoid and the guys that hope the 'mistake' they made gets eaten by the crows and coyotes before the conservation officers find it laying in the bush dead.

When in doubt, don't take the shot. Rule #1 in CORE training, rule #1 in reality. More range = more confidence in your abilities and your gun, but regardless, don't ever second guess yourself. If you didn't take the shot it was probably the best decision you could have made. Learn and move on.

[Jagermeister]

You did the right thing. If you can't make a sure shot, don't make the shot at all. Good call.

[Kudu]

So, what would you have done differently? My wife is giving me hell for not taking the shot ("at least to try" she says) but I know my reasons...

On the other hand coming home empty handed 5 times it's starting to weight, but hell, at least I enjoy being outside and have a blast with my buddy.


Something to ease your mind..........

A couple of weeks ago my son and I were up in the Horsefly area, we were up, drinking coffee at 4:30am then driving the 30 or so minutes to the parking area we had chosen - then Hiked a further hour or so to watch a beautiful dawn......

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/IMG_1442.jpg

We had hiked perhaps two or three hours when we spooked a group of deer - watching them bouncing in their rocking horse like canter, with their white backsides floating like cotton balls around a bend in the FSR tore at us.

We took off up a 200m ridge hoping to get the high ground and a bead on them, as we suspected they may only run a couple of hundred meters and stop.

Staying below the skyline, we worked our way around the ridge and stopped to glass the area below us.

Sitting dead still (allowing me time to suck in some oxygen) we saw a huge black bear feeding on berries completely oblivious to our presence 100 meters or so above it.

I had a tag in my pocket - but having never eaten bear - I'm not over anxious on shooting one.

The bear was stuffing itself with berries, it disappeared down a small gully, only to appear a few minutes later 15 to 20 meters further along the trail, only this time the baby cub she had with her made its appearance as well.

Everything considered - I could have taken a clean ethical shot when we first saw her - the cub would have been the surprise we never expected!

We both just sat and watched as she fed, playfully nosed the cub, and bolted when the rouge air-current carried our scent to her.

Btw - we never saw the mulies again, never mind we still have the whole season ahead of us.

[bsa30-06]

You need to go to the rifle range and get some confidence in your shooting abililty and then you can be sure of your shots and won't need your wife to tell you what to do
Jel .. it's obvious you lack confidence in your shooting skills ..
... waiting and waiting isn't going to solve a thing except a missed opportunity ..
.. animals only give you a open window for a short time .. go to the range first before hunting again ..
.. You need to be so good at shooting that it's up aim BAM! No problem with doubt .. POW!
sounds like your just starting out in the hunting department .. practice practice practice @ the range

Why dont you shut up you know it all blow hard.Post up some pics of your recent sucess, or go join a knitting website.That is two posts in the last two days from you that are nothing but bullshit.
This hunter did exactly what any hunter should have done when there not comfortable with a shot,and it doesnt matter what the reason.

[Bow Walker]

I'm glad to hear that you showed the restraint you did, it speaks volumes about your hunting ethics. Be patient, your bear will show itself.

Times two on the above sentiments. You are not a novice hunter if you have the where-with-all to man-up and let one walk. It's no shame on you - in fact it is quite the opposite. Congratulations on your maturity and moral convictions.

[BearSniper]

Good decision, as many have said you did the right thing.

Don't worry, plenty of other black bears out there. Just go up the Coke and off to the east or west and you'll see Bear sign.

Or just east of Manning Park, or even Chilliwack river valley.

I got a feeling your sound discretion will reward you some day with a brute of a bear taken with an excellent broadside shot:wink:

[oscar makonka]

Why does everyone want to kick my ass?

Think about it................

[dougal]

a hunter I know told me about a deer he had a good shot at broad side 60 yards kinda shot and it ran into the bush it burried itself into the thick cover and bedded down to die him and his partner looked for about an hour but could not find it for the life of him made a good ammount of noise at first but just got too deep with little to no blood after one big pool on the trail.
some times even good ethical hunters have a bad day and feel like crap for the loss and waist"even though outher animals got the poor thing" but its not like we can always be sure even with our 300 nitro mag ultra and a 4x900 ultra zoom digital scope.
its best not to take a crap shot at an unknown beast than to take pot shots at the woods like a dumb @$$ red neck.
not to mention that the press and tree hugging eviros are looking at our actions, theres no need to feed there allready well stocked fires with a dead crap bear thats got tranque juice makeing it uneddible and usless.
just look at the "do not eat bear" video on youtube the link was here a while back .
and anyone who says that a shot missed is worse than a poor pot at the woods should keep that garbage to themselves

[1/2 slam]

You did it right. If you are not comfortable with the shot don't take it. Good Job!

[newhunterette]

okay I quickly read through the thread - bi-passing the jibberish

I am in total agreement with all the members who have said you were ethical, you made the right choice - hunting isnt about the kill of the animal - hunting is the scouting, the tracking, the calling, the wilderness, animals instinctively hunt, they even make choices of whether to go after their game of choice or if it will be too much energy wasted on something that will get away because they arent in the right spot to pounce (watch animal planet someday - a female lion after a gizelle - they dont always succeed)

you were the hunter, you made the choice, you will have another day to have that animal and but it will be on your terms

I have a daughter who isnt against hunting but she doesn't like huntng, when I decided to start hunting I made her a promise that I will never shoot unless I know i am taking that animal down, kill zone one shot - I passed on a bear (beauty) but I didn't feel it was right shot or right time, I passed up a moose on my first ever hunt, wasn't sure I could take the shot so hubby did it (he is more seasoned) second moose I didn't hesitate and down it went one shot, clean shot and I kept my promise to my daughter.

I say cheers to you for your decision

[300wsm]

Doxy, why are you questioning yourself? you are a good enough hunter to know when to pass so you should know without a doubt about the ethics of your choice. i wished you just told the story without the what would you do and did i make the right choice...good story without it.

300wsm

[Islandman]

with bears its better to take your time. My wife and I watched a nice one for nearly 20 minutes on a mountain near here. Good range, animal was undisturbed, easy shot to make. When I decided I was going to make the kill and started to squeeze the trigger........that was when the cub popped out. Never regret letting one walk away....there will always be another opportunity another day!

[porcupine]

You did the right thing and exercised good judgement. Don't second guess yourself.

[wolverine]

Well, congrats. You're a hunter! Sometimes the "right thing" doesn't put meat in the freezer but it lets you sleep at night. Besides, tagged bears mean drugs in their system and I don't know about you but I'm not crazy about eating that. Those ones are good to shoot with a video camera. Good work... You'll tag out now... it's karma dude~:-D

[steelheadSABO]

Times like that is when you need some buckshot :)

[Martin_Hunter]

[x-posting from CGN]

Had a sort of ethical dilemma hunting today; looking for your inputs.

Novice hunter here; after 4 unsuccessful trips last Spring, we went out today again looking for black bears.

Lo and behold, we stumbled upon a very respectable one with tiny, tiny ears, coming straight towards us and totally oblivious of our presence; when we saw it, it was aprox 80-90 yds away. Because of bushes, the only option was an off hand, unsupported position, but since I know he front kill zone is relatively small, I decided to wait jut a bit more since his path was more or less toward us.

For a moment we lost sight of him (damn bushes again) and instead of keeping coming straight he's now into the tick stuff to the side; I had him (her?) in my scope for what seemed an eternity; I observed him eating / playing around with stuff but was never able to see more than 15% of his body at any given time. I couple of time I was almost going to fire the shot, but in end wasn't really sure if I was aiming at the shoulder or the neck (or belly).

To make matter worse, I noticed a blue ear tag attached (I know it's not prohibited here, but not recommended either).

As you can imagine, after a while he just slipped out of sight and that was the last we saw of him.

Thinking in retrospective, I still wouldn't take that shot in the tick stuff; too many bushes in the middle to alter the bullet flight (~60 yds by now) and assuming a non-DRT, it would have meant tracking in a bad, bad place without being sure if it was really down. That basically leaves the initial front shot as the only option.

So, what would you have done differently? My wife is giving me hell for not taking the shot ("at least to try" she says) but I know my reasons...

On the other hand coming home empty handed 5 times it's starting to weight, but hell, at least I enjoy being outside and have a blast with my buddy.

Inputs?

You did the best thing you could.Ethics first, and you got it,now.

[mr7mm]

in my opinion and judging by your story you made the right call a there are lots of bears out there and you will know when its time to ouch one off there are way too many so called hunters that would have lets loose you have my respect and good luck in finding the right one

wayne

[dunbartr]

Perfect! I wish everyone exercised that practice.

Ditto. You did everything right.

[sawmill]

Jel .. Why does everyone want to kick my ass? Sassy Frass ..

Because it needs kicking most days,might jar something loose in your brain,free up a few more neurons.

Good call on the bear,if you`d hit him poorly he may very well have tore the shit out of you.That makes for a REAL bad day.

[JCVD]

Just remember to hunt the golden hour (or hours in some areas) and you will see many bears. I usually just hunt 1-2 days every spring to get my pepperoni bear doing this. Look for patches of green grass, a sunlight shade mix and a bit of water. Fireweed is a good sign as well. Once you realize the habitat you will always find bears. Trophies...take a little more persistence...usually.

[Greenfields]

Great discretion!

I had been hunting for a 2 years before I got anything.......self taught. Enjoy the woods.

[Jelvis]

The only reason you didn't shoot when it all comes down to it ...................
...... You didn't want to shoot
Jel .. You made the choice, no one else, not even your wife .