Kinbasket Lake/Valemount

[Seth]

I'm headed to the East side of the lake next week. Anyone with any experiences in the area, willing to share, feel free. From what I understand, there aren't that many elk in the area. Is this true? As of now, I plan to treat it as a deer hunt with the opportunity to take an elk or immy moose, given the chance. Any help with the area is much appreciated. Our innitial target destination is Hugh Allen Creek as it seems to have some what of a road system to it. As my hunting partner has a goat tag, I suppose I should ask whether there is a healthy poppulation in the area. . .

[GoatGuy]

Wolves have taken hold pretty good. Deer, moose have gone downhill big time in a couple spots. Good number of goats, should be the odd elk kicking around.

[Amphibious]

write a full report when you get back, really interested in that area. supposed to hold some good goats if you're willing to put in a lot of time above the trees.....

[325]

I have fished the mouth of the Hugh Alan several years, usually around late June. I caught an 18 lb bull trout there.

As for hunting, I did a moose inventory there, and there are actually quite a few moose in that valley, but the hunting would be tough.

There are lots of goats on Mount Blackwell

[GoatGuy]

I have fished the mouth of the Hugh Alan several years, usually around late June. I caught an 18 lb bull trout there.

As for hunting, I did a moose inventory there, and there are actually quite a few moose in that valley, but the hunting would be tough.

There are lots of goats on Mount Blackwell

Do the inventory in the last 3 years?

[325]

Do the inventory in the last 3 years?


No...maybe 12 years ago...so things may have changes (more wolves??)

[GoatGuy]

No...maybe 12 years ago...so things may have changes (more wolves??)

In a big way. Couple patches of wt on the west side of the lake have disappeared. Moose densities have gone way down.

Flights have been low, lots of wolves seen from the air and on the ground.

[kootenayelkslayer]

That's where I put in for goats this year...no luck though. I saw a lot of wolf tracks down there last year and very little sign of much else. I'll be interested to hear how you make out.

[Paulyman]

I spent a week there back in 02.Saw some deer and bears, but no moose or elk.Really nice area though.

[dana]

GG is right, have encountered a ton of wolves on both sides of the lake the last few years. Moose were once abundant years ago, not so much so now. Deer are around but they are living with the ecology of fear so they keep themselves hidden quite well. Probably better chance at seeing a whitetail than a muley. Have seen quite a few goats in various drainages on the east side. They have broken up the subunits pretty darn tight, so make sure you know the subunit boundaries. Hunted grizz in Hugh Allen a few years ago and spent a lot of time glassing the slides. Did seea couple of nice billys. Would have been a good hard grunt to get at them but doable. As for elk, I haven't seen any sign near the lake. Gotta head north of town towards McBride to see much sign.

[Seth]

You're not painting a very pretty picture! Thanks for the input though. Most of the people I know that have been there have nothing but good to say. Mind you, they were all there 10 years ago and thats why I was asking for a more recent report. I'll make sure I have a bit of a back up plan as far as location. How is the hunting pressure? Do many locals end up hunting the area?
Wolves have taken hold pretty good. Deer, moose have gone downhill big time in a couple spots. Good number of goats, should be the odd elk kicking around.

[MuleyMadness]

It's funny that the reports are all so poor...I know wolves are heavy in areas, but it seems odd that the LED authorizations for Cow and Bull are still quite good for 7-2, there is an anterless muley and WT season, and the open calf season too. Pretty generous seasons for a place with next to nothing. That being the case I haven't been hunting up there in a few years, and don't doubt the people that have said it's slow...I just wonder why the MOE is so slow to recognize it then.

Dana and GG, are you saying that most of 7-2 is overrun or is it mainly certain pockets? If so, any general area that's really bad?

[GoatGuy]

You're not painting a very pretty picture! Thanks for the input though. Most of the people I know that have been there have nothing but good to say. Mind you, they were all there 10 years ago and thats why I was asking for a more recent report. I'll make sure I have a bit of a back up plan as far as location. How is the hunting pressure? Do many locals end up hunting the area?

It was good even 5 years ago.

Hunting pressure in most of that country is low. Think most of the locals shoot there deer in farmer's fields. :mrgreen:

[happyhunter]

Had a camp next to kinbasket lake near valemont this spring with a couple of guys looking for grizzlies. We hunted hard for three days and in that time we saw 1 whitetail doe, 2 cow elk, 3 moose, and 13 black bears. Seen lots of fresh sign from wolves all over the place. A ton of black bears but a really poor showing for ungulates.

[GoatGuy]

It's funny that the reports are all so poor...I know wolves are heavy in areas, but it seems odd that the LED authorizations for Cow and Bull are still quite good for 7-2, there is an anterless muley and WT season, and the open calf season too. Pretty generous seasons for a place with next to nothing. That being the case I haven't been hunting up there in a few years, and don't doubt the people that have said it's slow...I just wonder why the MOE is so slow to recognize it then.

Dana and GG, are you saying that most of 7-2 is overrun or is it mainly certain pockets? If so, any general area that's really bad?

Think things are still good in the farmer's fields (ie antlerless wt/mule deer seasons) and probably the road closures north of mcbride are still producing moose and elk although I haven't seen any of the inventory work out of there.

Most of the country to the south on both sides of Kinbasket have seen declines in moose, deer have disappeared in some spots and wolves have increased significantly.

In terms of regulations, the moose hunting is basically fail-safe and you're also dealing with 'caribou recovery' for the most part in that neck of the woods which means, 'prey reduction'.

Down south, near Revy the moose population has been knocked back from 1600 to around 400 and was still declining - they moved the antlerless LEH to 1 in most of the zones.

Wouldn't be too surprised to see an adjustment in 7-2 in the future in terms of antlerless LEH (cow), but the bull:cow ratio has historically been quite good so I wouldn't expect a change in the bull hunting opportunity.

In terms of buck and 6 pts elk seasons, they're also fail-safe so no need to worry.

Not the end of the world, just not the game there was even 5 years ago. So it goes.

[25tikka]

Just got back from a successful moose deer hunt there. Lots of animals in the area but lots of new growth. Hunt where you can see a bit and look around the clearings.....not in them. Good Luck

[MuleyMadness]

Think things are still good in the farmer's fields (ie antlerless wt/mule deer seasons) and probably the road closures north of mcbride are still producing moose and elk although I haven't seen any of the inventory work out of there.

Most of the country to the south on both sides of Kinbasket have seen declines in moose, deer have disappeared in some spots and wolves have increased significantly.

In terms of regulations, the moose hunting is basically fail-safe and you're also dealing with 'caribou recovery' for the most part in that neck of the woods which means, 'prey reduction'.

Down south, near Revy the moose population has been knocked back from 1600 to around 400 and was still declining - they moved the antlerless LEH to 1 in most of the zones.

Wouldn't be too surprised to see an adjustment in 7-2 in the future in terms of antlerless LEH (cow), but the bull:cow ratio has historically been quite good so I wouldn't expect a change in the bull hunting opportunity.

In terms of buck and 6 pts elk seasons, they're also fail-safe so no need to worry.

Not the end of the world, just not the game there was even 5 years ago. So it goes.

That's very interesting data, thank you very much. I never thought about the prey reduction part of it in all honesty, makes perfect sense why they are keeping the seasons so generous. Never really understood the 'prey reduction' part of the strategy, particulary when the animal (caribou) that you're trying to aid the recovery of is one of the dumbest in the wild, and likely the first to be wiped out by predators. But of course, when you say 'it would make sense' you should never say 'government' in the same sentence...it's a contradiction in terms :)

I might have to go have a look up there in a couple of weeks. I feel like putting some wolves on the wall.

[BCrams]

Hunted the McBride / Valemount area pretty good in the stretch 5 to 10 yrs ago when it was good. Still isn't too bad on private land but the last 5 years saw me switch up hunting locales further south into Region 3 because the wolves moved into 7-02 pretty heavily.

Its not to say the bucks aren't there (and good ones), they're just harder to find and fewer of them.

[snowhunter]

Spend two weeks of hard hunting in that area. No luck. The scenery Looks like it would be great area for moose, but there are only few. Lots of white-tails, and I have never encountered that many black bears before, anywhere in B.C.

The only thing we did not try out was to drift down the Canoe River, from Yellowhead hwy to Kinbasket Lake, which go through some interesting Crown Land on the southern shores ?

Also, if you have a decent boat, 20 foot or so, sail further south on the eastern shore of Kinbasket Lake, and then hike some logging roads, only accessable by boat ?

Many roads going east from main road on the eastern shore of Kinbasket Lake, can only be reached by fourtrax.

I know about locals who shoot moose "high up".

The area just south of Hwy 16, and around of "Mount Robson Meadow Campground"
is Crown Land, 7-02, and might be worth checking out for moose ?

The Fraser River, coming out of Mount Robson Provincial Park, on the southern side of the Hwy 16, is Crown Land as well, 7-02. You would need a good topo map before hunting there. Check out for private land first.

I will never go back and hunt around Valemount again.

[tbocking]

I agree with snow hunter I spent 10 days last year on the moose leh and never saw a moose. we talked to lots of other hunters and out of 14 guys there was only 1 cow seen. did see lots of grizz and many wolves. I will never hunt there again

[Mountain Hunter]

A few points to consider that no one has mentioned yet:

1: The area between Donald and Valemount has significant winter snowpack depths that elk and deer do not very well in. The area is considered an interior rainforest after all! They may be there in low numbers but this area historically does not favor ungulates. If they cannot migrate into areas of lower snowpacks (sometimes private land), they will not do well.

2: There has been significantly less logging in recent years and forest ingrowth has increased substantially decreasing sightability of game and moose habitat. Maybe why hunting 5-15 yrs ago was much better.

3. As people mentioned there is not great access and the area is considered more "wilderness" than surrounding areas further north and south. Wolves have always been there and predator control has been limited (poor access by people). I would think the wolves are suffering as us hunters are. Wouldn't wolf numbers be higher 5-15 yrs ago when moose numbers were higher? Bears have always been there, deal with them as you see fit. Goatguy do you have recent survey data on wolf and moose numbers, it would be good to see this stuff?

Predator control would likely help ungulate numbers but I think the current ultimate factors in the Kinbasket Lake area would be habitat degradation (lack of forest harvesting) and winter conditions. Maybe climate change will help this with lower snowpack depths!

Seth, look for mt goats and moose, they aren't all gone! It still is a wicked wilderness hunt!

[GoatGuy]

A few points to consider that no one has mentioned yet:

1: The area between Donald and Valemount has significant winter snowpack depths that elk and deer do not very well in. The area is considered an interior rainforest after all! They may be there in low numbers but this area historically does not favor ungulates. If they cannot migrate into areas of lower snowpacks (sometimes private land), they will not do well.

2: There has been significantly less logging in recent years and forest ingrowth has increased substantially decreasing sightability of game and moose habitat. Maybe why hunting 5-15 yrs ago was much better.

3. As people mentioned there is not great access and the area is considered more "wilderness" than surrounding areas further north and south. Wolves have always been there and predator control has been limited (poor access by people). I would think the wolves are suffering as us hunters are. Wouldn't wolf numbers be higher 5-15 yrs ago when moose numbers were higher? Bears have always been there, deal with them as you see fit. Goatguy do you have recent survey data on wolf and moose numbers, it would be good to see this stuff?

Predator control would likely help ungulate numbers but I think the current ultimate factors in the Kinbasket Lake area would be habitat degradation (lack of forest harvesting) and winter conditions. Maybe climate change will help this with lower snowpack depths!

Seth, look for mt goats and moose, they aren't all gone! It still is a wicked wilderness hunt!

Don't have the moose counts on this computer, they were down.

They don't have a good handle on the wolf population numbers up there. Inventory for tracks and transects showed numbers were way up as of 2 winters ago IIRC but I don't think there are a pile of wolves collared up there.

They've had wolves in the Revelstoke country that starved to death since the moose were reduced. Some of the wolves have dispersed into the North Ok and other parts of Region 4.

Can't remember what the wolf population estimate is for Revelstoke but they've got a pretty good handle on things. For the caribou project we're looking at significant reductions (elimination) or some packs if we want to save them.

You are right about winter severity, that's a common phenomenon all the way through that wet belt.

[husky30-06]

been hunting the valemont area for about 18 years....the number of bulls is fine just that the area is VERY grown in. up high in the mountians is the best place but there is also plenty of grizz. we are gong back this year and hope to check out some new places along the lake.......

[BCrams]

A few points to consider that no one has mentioned yet:


1: The area between Donald and Valemount has significant winter snowpack depths that elk and deer do not very well in. The area is considered an interior rainforest after all! They may be there in low numbers but this area historically does not favor ungulates. If they cannot migrate into areas of lower snowpacks (sometimes private land), they will not do well.

Which is why the main Robson Valley is still pretty good if you can get permission to hunt private land. Not much snow compared to along the lake.


2: There has been significantly less logging in recent years and forest ingrowth has increased substantially decreasing sightability of game and moose habitat. Maybe why hunting 5-15 yrs ago was much better.

Most of the older cutblocks are prime habitat for moose right now. Doesn't help to have high predation by wolves. Apparently some great cougar hunting to be had in that part of the country.


I think the current ultimate factors in the Kinbasket Lake area would be habitat degradation (lack of forest harvesting) and winter conditions.

Again, its the older cutblocks in the 20-30 yr class that are prime habitat for moose, not the younger ones. Its the younger ones that offer "visibility" when hunting.

Doesn't help to have high wolf numbers. They were also running rampant through the area I was hunting in the main valley and killing deer.

It didn't help the deer much when we had the high snowpack level a few years ago along the lake and wolves running rampant.

[Rodd]

I'm more familiar with the portion in Region 4 from Mica to Donald. There are some great Bull Elk up in the rivers flowing from the Alberta Border side, and have seen many huge Mulies come from areas along the lake, one 30 incher that was real impressive! I think wolves are definately a factor out there, but some great Trophys live out that way, they are just in habitat that is extremely hard to hunt. The lake flooded all the old wintering areas that used to sustain ungulates, I know trappers from before it was flooded saying it was incredible hunting prior to flooding the entire valley to valemont. Not many other hunters out that way... One bonus!

[snowhunter]

Thanks for this info Rodd, about the effect of the Mica Dam, that permanently "drowned" the prime habitat for ungulates . Now I understand better why I encountered so few moose, only tree in 14 days hunting around Valemount, and all of them very spooky, as if they were under extreme predatory pressure.

[bforce750]

Cut out all the f in biology,for moose you are way better off going up the holmes river,and for elk go a little further to Black creek Fsr,fill your boots,Valemount sucks for moose and elk,but there are tons of bears and goats.

[snowhunter]

I have seen goats at the moutains west of Valemount, and one could, from the bottom see them with the naked eye from a considerable distance. In regards to black bears, I think that Valemount area is one of the best area in B.C. to hunt bears. I agree, there are far better area's in B.C. to hunt moose and elk, than to hunt for them around Valemount.

[dana]

Interesting that some bring up the hard winters. The winters now are actually WAY better than they used to be. The lake influence has changed the climate of Valemount from what it used to be pre-flood. Valemount used to get snow like Blue River. Not so much now. Lots of good winter range in the area.
As for the wolves, they actually are being trapped pretty intensely by the local trappers. Lots of sets out there in the winter. A good thing to remember if you are running hounds for cats. Aside from the risk of having the wolves tearing up your hounds, you also run the risk of your hounds getting caught in the wolf sets. Even though the trappers are trying to make a dint on the wolf population they still are thick in there. And don't think the North Thompson wolves aren't hitting Valemount as well.
The last few seasons, I have talked to hunters that have hunted the area religiously for 20-30 years for moose. They used to tag out every year but now, they can't even see a bull. Many groups I talked to say they aren't going back.

There is an interesting read in the latest Muley Crazy mag by Dr. Charles E. Kay concerning Predation and the Ecology of Fear. I believe this really is what is happening in the Robson and Thompson. Interesting that the research was done in Jasper which is just a stones through away. Animals that are facing heavy predation especially by wolves act in fear and will move into lower quality, timbered areas where they have less chance of being killed.

[6616]

Just had a couple friends back from a moose hunt in 4-39, west side of the Arm just north of Mica, they got a 50 and a 48 incher.....!!!!

[snowhunter]

LEH hunting ? Only access from Revelstoke area ?

I did put in for LEH, cow moose for that area (Goldstream), which according the LEH synopsis, erroneusly listed the odd's at "0.4 : 1", when in reality the odd's, according to the application returns are closer to "50 : 1".

I should have known that these LEH listed odd's were to good to be true :)

[boneswells]

UM? You guys are forgeting about the rabbits. You know .... the ones that are on the road. Bring yer deuce deuce and stop and talk to rob bustin at bustin trout in tete juane....hes also done some hunt guidin in that area