Ethical CORE instructor?

[dutchie]

So there is a CORE instructor that we in talking to me the other day that I had a bit of an argument with.

He is an INSTRUCTOR for the CORE and he is encouraging head shots to his NEW HUNTING STUDENTS!!!.

I just about tripped over the thin air when I heard him say that... His reason "it is a quick death, and I hate to see animals suffer!":eek:

I asked him how many times he had shot the jaw off a deer and he said it has happened a couple of times, but that was not his intention...

man was I pissed.

Dutchie

[bmw_hockey]

I believe a head shot is ethical at close range, anything over 75 yards I will not attempt a head shot.

[Sundance1972]

Wow, I'm guessing you don't have to pass an exam to become an instructor? Sounds like he needs to go back and do the course himself!!

[todbartell]

not something to be teaching a new hunter who has limited abilities with a firearm. The heart/lungs is a much higher % target which is less likely to move quickly when you're about to squeeze the shot off

Im not a head shot fan.

[silvertipp]

not something to be teaching a new hunter who has limited abilities with a firearm. The heart/lungs is a much higher % target which is less likely to move quickly when you're about to squeeze the shot off

Im not a head shot fan.

well sais tod

[Jelvis]

I don't like head shots either could wound an animal real bad.
I'd try for a the shoulder if at all possible. A deers head is very small.
Jel .. Try for shoulder shot .. in the vitals

[dougster]

not to mention the fact that with a bit of luck you could take off an antler. only time for a head shot is one behind the ear to end it

[Jelvis]

Make sure if you finish off an animal up close on the ground that there is no rocks under it's head first, it will spit back in your face and could blind you.
Jel .. check first before the coup dee grace .. rock chips, gravel, shrapnel in the face .. BAM! Hospital

[GoatGuy]

Email to wes@BCWF.ca about the instructor

[fuzzybiscuit]

Originally posted by Dougster:

"not to mention the fact that with a bit of luck you could take off an antler. only time for a head shot is one behind the ear to end it"


Are you talking from all your vast hunting and shooting experience here?

Ah, that's right, you're also the guy who posted that hunting with a semi auto rifle is unethical.

Figures.



I have taken many Island Blacktails with head shots. I know my abilities and the abilities of my gun. If the only shot that presents itself is a head shot, and it is at a realistic range, I'll take it without thinking twice about it.

[Kirby]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d72/Cr_mclean/Hunting/Dumbasshunters.jpg

Ya good idea head shots work out great! What do you think the girl who found this deer starving to death beside her horse pen thought of hunters?

Kirby

[Steeleco]

only time for a head shot is one behind the ear to end it

Couldn't agree more. Buckwheats first chance at a buck was left alone because by the time we got set up that's all we could see. No thanks.

This guy is irresponsible at best. Picture a new hunter shoots a low odds shot on his/her first animal, it's a damaging head shot, no kill. The animal walks away never to be seen again. Do you think that new hunter will be back? I don't.

[canadiancon]

Whats wrong with one in the neck? why would someone shoot for the smallest target on the animal ie. the head?

[Pete]

Shot placement is everything. Center mass, center line, tight to the shoulder will produce the desired results. Head and neck shots provide a much smaller target. Especially when the target is 100m or more.

[Martin_Hunter]

So there is a CORE instructor that we in talking to me the other day that I had a bit of an argument with.

He is an INSTRUCTOR for the CORE and he is encouraging head shots to his NEW HUNTING STUDENTS!!!.

I just about tripped over the thin air when I heard him say that... His reason "it is a quick death, and I hate to see animals suffer!":eek:

I asked him how many times he had shot the jaw off a deer and he said it has happened a couple of times, but that was not his intention...

man was I pissed.

Dutchie

I tell you what's wrong with a person like that.I know the kind,cause I've met hunters like that.
They just wanna pretend their marksmanship is second to none,and they are so good that they can shoot big game in the head even if it's far.
They have an attitude and they wanna compensate for their other shortcomings.
They don't care about the animals or vital zone or anything else,cause their attitude stops them from using their brain!

[Jeffb]

Originally posted by Dougster:

"not to mention the fact that with a bit of luck you could take off an antler. only time for a head shot is one behind the ear to end it"


Are you talking from all your vast hunting and shooting experience here?

Ah, that's right, you're also the guy who posted that hunting with a semi auto rifle is unethical.

Figures.



I have taken many Island Blacktails with head shots. I know my abilities and the abilities of my gun. If the only shot that presents itself is a head shot, and it is at a realistic range, I'll take it without thinking twice about it.


This thread is about someone teaching new hunters to take head shots, not about how great your abilities are as a hunter to take head shots yourself. If a new hunter wants to try or is confident to take the headshot so be it, but to teach this just seems ridiculous

[Mik]

Its PRIDE, plain and simple! Look at me attitude-how great am I! Theres enought to worry about when you first get out to hunt, let alone a head shot.
This instructor needs to be told!

[Blacktail]

In the courses I have taught I mention the head shot as an ethical one shot kill that many hunters promote,but in the next breath I mention that it is not recommended.
I relate my own experiences with shooting the jaws off of deer and having to track it for miles to finally finish it off and mention the only safe and ethical one shot that they should be attempting is the broadside heart/lung shot.
This is the CORE line that is promoted in the instructors course and is the only one that should be promoted to new hunters........period!!

[Caveman]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d72/Cr_mclean/Hunting/Dumbasshunters.jpg

Ya good idea head shots work out great! What do you think the girl who found this deer starving to death beside her horse pen thought of hunters?

Kirby

Good post Kirby! This should be shown to all new hunters to discourage head shots. The margin of error on the head shot is too large for my liking. Take the ethical root. First shot in the vitals, leave the head shot for the finishing shot if required.

[Elkhound]

While I have taken animals with head shots Its the last shot I want to take. I am confident in my own abilities and I know what I can do or cannot do with my rifle. If I know I can make the shot...I take it. If I feel its not good. The animal gets to walk away. But to teach a new shooter to go for such a small target is unacceptable IMO

[Phreddy]

I always tell my CORE students to make every effort to get a good boiler room shot, even if it means passing up on an animal. In over 50 years of hunting I've never taken an head shot and I'm sure as hell not going to start now. Kirby, I hope you don't mind if I copy your picture to use to show some of my "young guns" what the very possible results of an attempted head shot are.

[fuzzybiscuit]

I agree with the original poster that a Core instructor should not be teaching his students and novice hunters that a head shot is the best shot to take on an animal.

I never claimed it was.

What I had a problem with was another member on here who has about zero experience when it comes to hunting and shooting saying that a head shot should never be taken.

That, in my opinion, is not correct either. Let me explain.

While the picture of the deer that has its jaw blown off and obviously suffering is very graphic, is one of a deer shot in the gut sack and obviously suffering any less graphic? Both deer are going to die a slow death. Both shots were bad shots.

With all shots there is a risk of injuring the animal and it getting away to never be found by the shooter. On Island sized deer, I personally think that the risk of blowing a jaw off and having a deer get away is probably less than shooting too far back on a lung shot and also wounding the same deer. In all my years hunting I have never seen a deer with its jaw blown off, but I have had to help track a couple that were gut shot.

Add to the fact that an Island deer is only give or take a foot high when laying on its side, it becomes very important to drop the deer in its tracks because if it runs a hundred yards in three foot high salal and then dies, there is a good chance you will never find that deer. And that's with a good lung shot.

[dougal]

my wifes first deer was a head shot but only because it put its face over the section of chest she was aiming at

[Phreddy]

I agree with the original poster that a Core instructor should not be teaching his students and novice hunters that a head shot is the best shot to take on an animal.

I never claimed it was.

What I had a problem with was another member on here who has about zero experience when it comes to hunting and shooting saying that a head shot should never be taken.

That, in my opinion, is not correct either. Let me explain.

While the picture of the deer that has its jaw blown off and obviously suffering is very graphic, is one of a deer shot in the gut sack and obviously suffering any less graphic? Both deer are going to die a slow death. Both shots were bad shots.

With all shots there is a risk of injuring the animal and it getting away to never be found by the shooter. On Island sized deer, I personally think that the risk of blowing a jaw off and having a deer get away is probably less than shooting too far back on a lung shot and also wounding the same deer. In all my years hunting I have never seen a deer with its jaw blown off, but I have had to help track a couple that were gut shot.

Add to the fact that an Island deer is only give or take a foot high when laying on its side, it becomes very important to drop the deer in its tracks because if it runs a hundred yards in three foot high salal and then dies, there is a good chance you will never find that deer. And that's with a good lung shot.

The boiler room provides one hell of a lot larger target than the head. That deer shot in the salal, as you said, died. It didn't run around with it's jaw blown away and unable to eat.
I've never gut shot a deer yet, and if I'm not sure of my shot placement, I'm not going to shoot. Why give the antis' anymore ammunition than they already have.

[308Lover]

As a CORE instructor (retired) for many years, we felt it was our job to show the vital places on animals for a quick kill. We had diagrams for that, and explained the possibility of problems with various angles. It was not our job to say "shoot here" but to educate, and let them choose. We did point out that animals often had rapid head movement, especially deer, and it was a tricky call. With beginners (and not all students were beginners) we said that the largest area, probably safest area, was in the heart/lung region . Even today, we've all seen what excitement can do to the best of us when we see that animal up close.