Gun dog training

[Casagrande]

I'd like to train the next Lab to be a gun dog so its time to start learning about the subject. Looking for some book recommendations. Also, are there any club/classes in the Vernon area? We don't plan on getting another dog until we relocate there. Thanks.
More questions to follow no doubt.

[Rob]

Im in the same boat although Jessie is 9 weeks now. Big Bopper was talking about putting on a clinic last year(e collar training anyway), but it kind of fizzled away or something. Vernon isnt to far from me so keep me posted as well please. when r u moving to Vernon? Rob

[Casagrande]

As soon as the house sells.

[Kasomor]

Hey Rob,

You two need to split the cost on "Bill Hillmann's Training a Retriever Puppy." DVD :-D
http://www.hawkeyemedia.net/TrainingRetrieverPuppy002.html

"Sound Beginning with Jackie Mertens" is another DVD you may want to get but I prefer the Hillmann one.

"Training Retrievers for Marshes and Meadows" by James Spencer is a good beginner book.

Have fun!

[Deer Sausage]

i used these two...it worked...my dogs one and a half and been out for birds twice...she delivered. good luck and have fun with your dog.

by Vic Barlow (http://www.amazon.com/Vic-Barlow/e/B001K8OIZ4/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_3?qid=1284865946&sr=1-3) (Paperback - Sep 2003)
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[Ian F.]

Smartworks by Evan Graham, books, videos is probably the most complete system out there right now. Lardy is considered the standard by many, weak on the puppy side.

I like spencer and dahl (10 min retriever) as well, wolters if dated and focus's solely on a perfect student. Hickox's (bird dog) methods aren't mine, but I've still reviewed them.

There is no 1 source of info, read and watch as much as you can. You're going to pay $1000 for a good pup, $200-$500 in first year vet bills, A collar, dummies you name it and not to count the hundreds of hours you're going to invest. Training info is not the place to scrimp!

Very best,

ian

[Casagrande]

Smartworks by Evan Graham, books, videos is probably the most complete system out there right now. Lardy is considered the standard by many, weak on the puppy side.

I like spencer and dahl (10 min retriever) as well, wolters if dated and focus's solely on a perfect student. Hickox's (bird dog) methods aren't mine, but I've still reviewed them.

There is no 1 source of info, read and watch as much as you can. You're going to pay $1000 for a good pup, $200-$500 in first year vet bills, A collar, dummies you name it and not to count the hundreds of hours you're going to invest. Training info is not the place to scrimp!

Very best,

ian
By collar, do you mean e-collar? I am planning to not use one.

[Kasomor]

By collar, do you mean e-collar? I am planning to not use one.

At the risk of opening this can of worms again......why not?

Robert Milner is an advocate of no e-collars. Google him.

Lardy, Graham, Hillmann, Rorem, Dahl, Farmer, etc.. all use e-collars in their training programs.

If all you want is a hunting dog...since "hunting dog" means so many different things....you can probably get away with out a collar...

Personally I wouldn't even try. There is no reason not to use an e-collar.

And Ian F. Did you go to Evan's seminar on the Island in March/ April???

[Casagrande]

No real reason, I guess you can simply either choose to train with or without one and I'd like to try without. Maybe a bit more "traditional" approach if you will. Perhaps a bit more of a challenge? Remember I have NO experience in this field. That said, I'm also expecting a lot of trial and error on both mine and the dog's part.

[Casagrande]

By hunting dog, I mean for both waterfowl and upland birds. Maybe the dog will take to one over the other?

[Kasomor]

Check out the stuff by Robert Milner he's an advocate of NOT using the collar.

By "bird hunting dog" I mean that those words mean different things to different people.

Some hunters are happy to have a dog who just shows them were the bird is, some dogs will only pick up birds that they see fall, some are allowed to break, some can't remember multiple falls, etc.........and then there is the opposite end of the scale where the dog work is as important as the ducks that are retrieved for the table.

Each hunter makes up their own minds what standards they want and will accept in their "hunting dog."

[britman101]

Seeing that your dog is a Lab, his strong suit will be as a retriever. I would focus on that first. Individuals on here have given you a lot of information to work with and you can choose what works best for you. As far as upland gamebirds, that is going to be a little trickier as you would have to get pigeons or chukars to train the dog over. Most labs will be flushers and you would have to take that into account. Therefore as a new trainer, in my opinion, focus on the retriever training first, and if you can get him to be controlled in the field on upland game, consider that a bonus.

[Ian F.]

kasomor, No i didn't attend Evan's seminar this year, i was dogless at the time. Maybe this year if he returns, Zoe should be through basic's by then.

Casagrande, Since you don't have an opinion presently on e collars, my suggestion would be to do some serious research and form one. Make sure you are reading newer info, say within the last 10 years as the world has changed in e collars huge. Avoid the tritronics retriever book, and george hickox as then tend to follow the old school thinking. Tritronics is the industry standard though, wonder if they'll ever update that book, going on 20 at least now....

Also, you have time on your side to do your puppy research as well, find a good breeder, check out the pedigree, meet the parents (a must) meet the granparents if you can, talk to folks about the kennel(s) you are looking at...

Oh and the single most important rule to picking a lab, DON'T PICK BY COLOUR! That could start a flame war, but those that know breeding and some of the inline colour breeding will agree

Enjoy the journey! I'm just entering the super fun period with Zoe, 6 months old and starting basics with tons of potential!

Very best,

Ian
There is a good dog form on the fuge, as well as retrievertrainingforum.net and plenty of online resources. Evan Graham has plenty of promo snipets on youtube.

[Casagrande]

Precisely why I started this thread - I want as much knowledge as possible BEFORE I start. All good points about meeting the breeder etc. and I'd be doing that regardless. However, he is going to be black ( the wife insists, boy I must be pussy-whipped!)
Thanks all, keep it coming.

[Busterbrown]

To suggest that not picking by colour is the most important issue is a load of crap. There are well bred labs of every colour available. I would decide on the colour FIRST then find a well bred littler with all the health clearances.
If you prefer a black get one, same goes for yellow or chocolate. There are many good pups available in any colour. Pick what ever colour you desire you will be looking at it for ten years To suggest that colour is the most important trait in your selection is nuts. By the way WTF is inline colour breeding???

[Kasomor]

kasomor, No i didn't attend Evan's seminar this year, i was dogless at the time. Maybe this year if he returns, Zoe should be through basic's by then.



Think he is being booked to come and do a young dog seminar....on the Island again. 2010 seminar was advanced.

[Ian F.]

To each their own Mr. Brown, to each their own..


To suggest that not picking by colour is the most important issue is a load of crap. There are well bred labs of every colour available. I would decide on the colour FIRST then find a well bred littler with all the health clearances.
If you prefer a black get one, same goes for yellow or chocolate. There are many good pups available in any colour. Pick what ever colour you desire you will be looking at it for ten years To suggest that colour is the most important trait in your selection is nuts. By the way WTF is inline colour breeding???

Pick by pedigree with as many proven dogs in it as you can get, PERIOD! Be honest with yourself and your breeder. Look for and ask for health clearances. You are trying to stack the odds in your favour, but at the end of the day you can get a good one or a bad one, and you can get a good dog that you aren't able to bring the best out of, just as you can get "the dog" right out of the gate, and I hope you do!

Getting a good black lab is fairly straight forward, lots of good breeders around.

Very best,

Ian

[Casagrande]

Breeder recommendations are appreciated!

[Busterbrown]

Ian f Please enlighten all of us that are not in the know. What is "inline colour beeding" ? If it is the "single most important rule" as you put it, it must be real important when deciding on a new pup? We are planning to breed our female in the spring and I sure would not want to "inline colour breed"

[Ian F.]

Mr. Brown,

You are obviously more skilled and experience in this area then I am. I acquiesce to you on this subject.

Ian

[Casagrande]

Don't ruin my thread boys or you're going to the principal's office.

[bopper]

After 35 years of training gun dogs professionally, I retired a couple of years ago, but I love working with dogs and am always willing to help anyone out in any way I can.
I would be happy to put on a training clinic or seminar anywhere and anytime there is enough interest. I have done a few of these since retiring, for just the cost of paying for use of grounds, travel, food, birds, ammo, training manuals, porta-potties if needed. If you can get a group together, I'll be happy to help. Contact me if you'd like more info.
Good luck with your dogs!
Bopper (aka Doug Grant)