First elk of MU 4-16

[Vader]

Story goes: Truck was spotted with HUGE set of antlers sticking out the back of a truck heading through Christina Lake via Castlegar, reported. Stopped in Grand Forks heading somewhere. 'Parently they have the right to hunt for sustinance food.. SEE YA! and away they go...

[knighthunter]

Maybe they got tired of eating klik.

[Clint_S]

Yeah I heard there were a few trucks that headed out with 360+ class bulls over the grease trail (blueberry/paulson) back to wherever the F they came from prior to bow season.

[uraarchr]

guy i work with said his cousin or bud from the rez got a buck in reg 8 like week or week n a haf ago.i lmost went berzerk.

[aggiehunter]

Clint, I guess the powers to be forgot that GOS means GOS.....

[4blade]

i hear there up to their 3rd and 4th elk now

[aggiehunter]

...the rumour mill has already ground up some stuff...we saw a chocolate horned bull in the back of a little red truck coming out of 'Gar on Aug. 29th.....by the time we hit the EK for the bowhunt we heard that 4 bulls scoring near 400 had been taken...the bull we saw might have scored 270 so I think a lot of it is crap...I love GOS!

[mcrae]

...the rumour mill has already ground up some stuff...we saw a chocolate horned bull in the back of a little red truck coming out of 'Gar on Aug. 29th.....by the time we hit the EK for the bowhunt we heard that 4 bulls scoring near 400 had been taken...the bull we saw might have scored 270 so I think a lot of it is crap...I love GOS!

What GOS are you referring to? The season in 4-16 doesn't start until Oct 1st so if in fact some guys have taken elk in 4-16 they are not doing it during a GOS??? There is no archery season in 4-16 for elk???

Maybe I am misunderstaning your post?

[aggiehunter]

GOS means opportunity for everyone regardless of color, creed or religion....I'll let you guys figure out the rest...................lots of periods there!

[curt]

I THINK THE EARLIER POINT BEING MADE IS THERE IS NO GOS IN 4-16 UNTIL OCT REGARDLESS OF THE RACE, RELIGION, COLOR BULLSH*T. IF ELK ARE COMING OUT OF THE WK RIGHT NOW THEY ARE ALL POACHED AND THAT IS REALLY SHITTY. REAL ABORIGINALS/ NATIVE PEOPLES DONT PLAY THIS GAME. LETS BE HONEST THAT WHO WE ARE ELUDING TO AND HOWEVER IS DOING THAT HAS NO SELF PRIDE AND IS DISGRACEFUL TO THEIR PEOPLE.:cry:

[mcrae]

GOS means opportunity for everyone regardless of color, creed or religion....I'll let you guys figure out the rest...................lots of periods there!


There is no GOS in 4-16 until Oct 1st I still dont see what your point is? Should they not be waiting until Oct 1st like the rest of us?????????? lots of question marks there:wink:...

[bighornbob]

A few things to remember guys.

Just because it was seen on the highway in the "gar" does not mean it was shot there. Season has been open for bows in the east koots for a week now.

400 class elk in the back of the truck are more likely 275 class elk with a tape on them. Once again probably for the EK.

There is a lot of resistance from locals for this hunt so I am sure by the time the season ends, we will have heard of stories of guys almost being shot, thousands of elk being shot and left by guys looking for bigger ones, the elk heard completely killed off and so on.

BHB

[Devilbear]

My impression, after some checking with locals, is that only a tiny minority of loud "activists" AND, not surprisingly, both the M.P. and M.L.A. for the area are really opposed to this hunt.

The ironic and amusing aspect of this is that MANY of those opposed ARE NOT native-born "Kootenays" and many are Yankee "draftdodgers" and other such types. The M.L.A. is a feminist NDPer and the M.P., is a newcomer, a "Dipper" and a guy who claims to hold both advanced status in Karate and to have been a Canforce officer; he is actually a former school teacher.

His protests have a bit of ethnic discrimination about them, as he stated in a letter to Barry Penner, that the local "Doukhobors" were opposed to this hunt.....funny, I have not met any. He simply is parroting the typical NDP "anti-gun" line and knows jacksquat about the area or wildlife management.

He did, however, openly threaten a fellow committee member in a parliamentary meeting with a beating and swore at him with several "four letter" words.....just the sort of person we really want as a M.P., eh?

He is an arrogant and intemperate guy who should leave the Kootenays and retire on his fat teacher's and MP's pensions and leave the management of BC's wildlife to professionals. He is now 65 and is just a pathetic example of what a Canadian M.P. should be....well, he is a "Dipper", so...........

[stoneslinger]

What is a Dipper?

[Devilbear]

A member or supporter of "the No Democracy Pinkos", the hated and loathsome N.D.P.

Atamanenko is among the worst of them, a real jerk with a sneering, "Stalinist" attitude and a foul temper; I wouldn't support a guy like him if he were the most "gun friendly" M.P. in Canada.

[mcrae]

A few things to remember guys.

Just because it was seen on the highway in the "gar" does not mean it was shot there. Season has been open for bows in the east koots for a week now.

400 class elk in the back of the truck are more likely 275 class elk with a tape on them. Once again probably for the EK.

There is a lot of resistance from locals for this hunt so I am sure by the time the season ends, we will have heard of stories of guys almost being shot, thousands of elk being shot and left by guys looking for bigger ones, the elk heard completely killed off and so on.

BHB

Yes but the elk in question was seen before the season opened in 4-18 or the E.Koots.

Its all speculation and until I actually see some facts and not rumours I will not get too worked up about it.

[stoneslinger]

I always thought a "Dipper" was a person who smokes West Kootenay Green marijuana that was grown by Yankee draftdodgers upon Duhkobor owned land.

[aggiehunter]

Mcrae...did your ancestors wait until Oct. 1st if they were hungry? It's all about the groceries.......and there is no sense stressing over it either!

[Devilbear]

So, we use a motor vehicle to drive many miles to obtain meat because we are hungry, this when there are grocery stores close to our homes????? This, just does not "compute" for me and I cannot agree with such an opinion as there is no record of aboriginals hunting elk in the WKs.

The major source of animal protein in that region was fish, not Cervids and, while some hunting was certainly done for food, there were very few elk available there until quite recently.

I just think that it is unacceptable for any group in BC-Canada, to have "special rights" to resources, but, I do believe in honouring such treaties as were made in pioneer times, in EXACTLY the manner they were intended, using the technology available at the time of enactment. This, to me, is genuine social justice, YMMV.

[fireguy68]

........This season should have never have been started........the rumor mill is abounding here in Trail.......a big 7X7 bull shot on the Bombay Summitt (Castlegar/Fruitvale Cutoff) and another big one up the Arrow lakes somewhere......this is bullshit......supposedly was from the Okanagan Band that shot these.......thought they couldn't only hunt out of there own home jurisdiction......oh well, guess they won't be happy until they gut and decimate the whole herd that took 30 some odd years to build......its disgusting............have a real sick feeling tonight after what I have been hearing about this new elk season......so sad.......should shut it all down.......including sustenance.......in these day and ages you can't tell me these elk had to be shot so someone would not go hungry this winter................BULLSHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ...Thanks for the read.......and this is just a tax payers opinion and thats all.....!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stoneslinger]

There have always been big antlered elk and deer around Arrow Lakes. Good minerals perhaps??????
The area is full of gossipy bullcrap and narrow-minded, unintelligent opinions also.

[GoatGuy]

........This season should have never have been started........the rumor mill is abounding here in Trail.......a big 7X7 bull shot on the Bombay Summitt (Castlegar/Fruitvale Cutoff) and another big one up the Arrow lakes somewhere......this is bullshit......supposedly was from the Okanagan Band that shot these.......thought they couldn't only hunt out of there own home jurisdiction......oh well, guess they won't be happy until they gut and decimate the whole herd that took 30 some odd years to build......its disgusting............have a real sick feeling tonight after what I have been hearing about this new elk season......so sad.......should shut it all down.......including sustenance.......in these day and ages you can't tell me these elk had to be shot so someone would not go hungry this winter................BULLSHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ...Thanks for the read.......and this is just a tax payers opinion and thats all.....!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't listen to the rumours look to the science and fact.

When the bullshit is as thick as it is it's easy to get sucked in.

[Devilbear]

No, the mineral substrate there is largely quartzite-granitic and this does not tend to supply the nutrients to antler growth that the Carboniferous and Devonian Limestone substrate of much of the EK does. Large antlers on the once common Mule Deer and the now more common Whitetail Deer of the Arrow Lakes were and are not common and never have been, relative to other habitats where they occur.

The elk in question here, are largely a result of transplants done in the early '70s and zealously guarded by the MoE until, in the opinion of the RPBio responsible, a short GOS can be sustained. The area had VERY few elk during the '50s and '60s, local hunters always went to the EK for elk hunting.

Some elk moved in due to "drift" from adjacent areas, but, there were few around Nelson, Trail, Castlegar, Christina Lake and Deer Park, until the transplants. This first season should show if a regular GOS is sustainable and the issues concerning the alleged killing now happening should be dealt with by public protest and political lobbying.

[mcrae]

Mcrae...did your ancestors wait until Oct. 1st if they were hungry? It's all about the groceries.......and there is no sense stressing over it either!

Are you for real? They drive all the way to the W.Koots to take a bull elk for food when the can "sustenance" hunt on there own land legally? Why not go shoot a moose for food at home rather than come to the W.Koots to hunt elk...These people that allegedly did this are not locals. If in fact this happened it has nothing to do with people being hungry.

I have not seen anything about this happening officially from any source other than word of mouth and the internet. So for me its largely a rumor that as of yet is unsubstantiated. But if this in fact happened it was a case of poaching nothing more and to defend it based on a "sustenance" hunt just goes to show that dick heads abound in all races... Lets not paint all FN guys and gals with the same brush because I doubt this would be acceptable to many of them as well.

[stoneslinger]

I thought the WK boys came over to escape the toxic discharge from smelter and pulp mills. And for the easy road access. Miles and miles of good roads into pristine, game rich valleys.
Arrow Lakes bucks and bulls folks. They be BIG.

[Gunner]

........This season should have never have been started........the rumor mill is abounding here in Trail.......a big 7X7 bull shot on the Bombay Summitt (Castlegar/Fruitvale Cutoff) and another big one up the Arrow lakes somewhere......this is bullshit......supposedly was from the Okanagan Band that shot these.......thought they couldn't only hunt out of there own home jurisdiction......oh well, guess they won't be happy until they gut and decimate the whole herd that took 30 some odd years to build......its disgusting............have a real sick feeling tonight after what I have been hearing about this new elk season......so sad.......should shut it all down.......including sustenance.......in these day and ages you can't tell me these elk had to be shot so someone would not go hungry this winter................BULLSHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ...Thanks for the read.......and this is just a tax payers opinion and thats all.....!!!!!!!!!!!!WTF does any of this have to do with a 6pt GOS that doesn't open til Oct 1?Rumors are exactly that....rumors.And you want to shut down a season that hasn't started yet because of ....rumors.More WK paranoia,must be the water. Gunner

[6616]

WTF does any of this have to do with a 6pt GOS that doesn't open til Oct 1?Rumors are exactly that....rumors.And you want to shut down a season that hasn't started yet because of ....rumors.More WK paranoia,must be the water. Gunner

Even if the rumors are true, how can a GOS scheduled to start Oct 1st be blamed for elk being poached in late August or early September...? Good post Murray, blaming the new season just doesn't compute....!

[Craven200]

Elk will die, elk will live too. Can't change the season now. I worry about the mule deer (open Oct.1 any buck) and whitey does (Oct.10). This I worry about for my kids hunting opportunities.

[aggiehunter]

6616...If theres a GOS then first nations can fill there boots in there traditional territories....anytime...just too bad the bowhunters got screwed there.

[GoatGuy]

6616...If theres a GOS then first nations can fill there boots in there traditional territories....anytime...just too bad the bowhunters got screwed there.

The gos has nothing to do with fn harvest. Fn can harvest when there's no season so long as it's sustainable (conservation first). There is also no enforcement for fn harvest outside of traditional territory.

[cmc destroyer]

Every year I read this kind of crap and it p****es me off!!!,...... Hunting so they dont starve??!!! give me a break!!! ...........Such utter bullshit It makes me SICK !!!
Frikkin scum bags!!!!!

[aggiehunter]

Thanks Goatguy...your absolutley right..."where theres no conservations concern"...now people will get it!

[bmw_hockey]

hey destroyer, I am First nations and we live off the meat I hunt, I dont Pitlamp I dont waste, and I dont like being called a Frikkin scum Bag,

it is not my fault I have the rights I do, truth is that the natives gave the land over for the settlers to run on a few promises, one being that we will always be able to hunt. and this was made to avoid a giant Bloodbath,
so get mad at me who is just doing what is legal,

even on the food guide, natives are supposed to eat wild meat, it is the way our bodies work best, and how our bodies cannot handle alcohol, I have many family members die at 40-50 due to their liver not handling the alcohol. caucasions have been drinking for thousands of years and their body has adapted to that lifestyle, whereas us natives only maybe 200 years.

to be quite honest I get very upset by the remarks some of you post about natives, but I forgive you and hold no grudge,

do we think it fair how much people from other countries pay for tags here? is that fair? or is it fair that only people from saskatchewan can hunt pronghorn and not us here from BC?

anyways dont want to get sidetracked lol, I pray everyone has a safe and sucessful hunt this year
God Bless

[Devilbear]

Who FORCED these persons to drink alcohol?

If we re-activated the old "Interdict List" once used to prevent such problems and usually called "The Indian List", when I was young, the very people who would benefit from this would howl about "discrimination", blah, blah, blah.

There are NO "treaties" in effect in the region under discussion, the elk in question were transplanted to build this herd by WHITE Canadians, several of whom were friends of mine and there ARE NO aboriginals living there, as those who once seasonally resided there moved by choice to their winter homes around Coville, WA., USA.

So, the supposed "right" to hunt for "sustenance" there simply does not exist and that is what most posters here are pizzed about. If, you wish to hunt for food in the area where your ancestors lived a Neolithic lifestyle, fine, do so as they did and deal with the consequences. However, a truck, atv, rifles, lights and so forth are NOT "traditional" and you should not be allowed any uses of these that differs from those afforded by law to we whose ancestors invented them and brought them here to B.C.

The problem is that you want it both ways and, as far as "laws" are concerned, they CAN be changed by the will of the majority and, IMO, must be.

[aggiehunter]

DevilBear...I'm sure your hunting the same as your ancestors...700 metre rifles...GPS...Quad...Google Earth....two way radios....scents....bait....calls......and your relatives said they were staying a few weeks...hmmm!

[bmw_hockey]

if its not someones traditional territory than yes I agree they should not have been shot(poached), if on private property I agree people should not be trespassing,

it just makes me sick that all the Racist comments on Hunting BC, I read more hate posts from fellow hunters that enjoy the outdoors and spending quality family time that I do like yourselves, than the animal peta vegetarians show to me when they hear I hunt for food(and trophy if it presents itself :)

DevilBear: yes your right no one forced anyone to drink, it was only an analogy of how game meat is important for natives.
-however my Mom was forced in a residential School ripped away from her parents and not even allowed to speak one word to her siblings in the same school. while being Violated by the teachers, and I was raised with this growing up, but I dont Hate Caucasions, or want an apology from you or anyone, just some understanding and to act mature.

if majority law is what you want, the majority of BC'ers want all hunting to be banned.

so as Ted Nugent put it, should we be fighting amongst ourselves about what hunting practices are, or should we be fighting the majority of the public who wants to shut it down and take away your guns.

[Devilbear]

DevilBear...I'm sure your hunting the same as your ancestors...700 metre rifles...GPS...Quad...Google Earth....two way radios....scents....bait....calls......and your relatives said they were staying a few weeks...hmmm!

I have NONE of these items, have never so much as sat on a quad, have never used a GPS and 700 meter rifles are for military snipers, not for hunters and serious wilderness workers and advocates which I was and am.

My forbears, were among the first permanent settlers of the area in question and still live, work and PAY TAXES in that area. Get it, BC is NOT "aboriginal land" and WE who DO own every square inch of it, are sick and tired of all the bullshit from a few who POACH wildlife and often waste the meat...as I have repeatedly seen in both BC and Alberta.

Keep up the charade of being somehow more entitled than we Canadians of non-aboriginal ancestry and the result WILL be a conflict such as has not happened in Canada and it will make "Wounded Knee" in the US look like a kiddie's pillow fight!

One Canada, love it or leave it!!!!

[Devilbear]

if its not someones traditional territory than yes I agree they should not have been shot(poached), if on private property I agree people should not be trespassing,

it just makes me sick that all the Racist comments on Hunting BC, I read more hate posts from fellow hunters that enjoy the outdoors and spending quality family time that I do like yourselves, than the animal peta vegetarians show to me when they hear I hunt for food(and trophy if it presents itself :)

DevilBear: yes your right no one forced anyone to drink, it was only an analogy of how game meat is important for natives.
-however my Mom was forced in a residential School ripped away from her parents and not even allowed to speak one word to her siblings in the same school. while being Violated by the teachers, and I was raised with this growing up, but I dont Hate Caucasions, or want an apology from you or anyone, just some understanding and to act mature.

if majority law is what you want, the majority of BC'ers want all hunting to be banned.

so as Ted Nugent put it, should we be fighting amongst ourselves about what hunting practices are, or should we be fighting the majority of the public who wants to shut it down and take away your guns.

Yeah, I also went to brutal and abusive schools, grew up very "poor" and was so crippled at 14 that the doctors warned my parents that I might not ever walk again. My brother died young of diabetes and my dog died young, too, cry me a fuggin' river, life ain't easy for ANYONE, so, get over your selfpity and learn to deal with life.

I have seen FAR more racism here and in my life in various places in BC and Alberta FROM aboriginals and mixed-race persons than I have from we who were ALSO born here and are of European ancestry. This, is true, whether you choose to believe it, is not my concern.

I have not made a racist comment here, I merely pointed out a FACT, booze is not forced on anyone and most people do not blame others for every little screwup in their lives.

Anyway, enough, I am not going to get into a foolish donnybrook over this, MU 4-16 is MY " traditional territory" and I am going to do whatever I can to prevent the type of slaughter that happened at Shaw Creek on V.I. in the late '80s.......

[fireguy68]

........Boy, was that ever easy stirring the proverbial pot with the big paddle.....but like a few comments I read........the mule deer and the whitetail does have more to worry about when people travel hundreds of KM to get skunked hunting for elk and want to go home with a little something to taste over those long winter months.........we should be trying to conserve instead of decimate.........in my opinion. PS: The deer herds are going to take a beating in Region 4 this year if we don't conserve.....little bucks make bigs ones........and does make lots of little bucks

[Woodpile]

While there is no excuse for poaching and unethical hunting, there is also no excuse for racism. I am a white 7th generation Canadian and I find the comments from you DevilBear disgusting. Not only on this thread, but others as well. Calling out supposed "facts" is only a smokescreen so you can spout your backwoods racism without any recourse.

[Devilbear]

Really, how very interesting, do go on.

[700bdl]

While there is no excuse for poaching and unethical hunting, there is also no excuse for racism. I am a white 7th generation Canadian and I find the comments from you DevilBear disgusting. Not only on this thread, but others as well. Calling out supposed "facts" is only a smokescreen so you can spout your backwoods racism without any recourse.

He must be buddies with the mods. How else could he get away with some of the things he says?

I'll probably get in trouble for making this comment.

[Devilbear]

No, gentlemen, while you are both mistaken about my ...backwoods... attitudes and, that in itself is a VERY discriminatory and demeaning comment, I am not a man who would complain about comments other than those obviously intended to initiate an interpersonal "flame war" here. In fact, I have been sternly admonished, both on the public forum here and by PMs for my traditional BC usage and terms now not acceptable to the "progressive" people, among these was one mod whom I have given considerable assistance to on choosing items for hunting he required.

I do not know and have never met ANY of the mods here and would not expect or accept any "special" consideration, if I were one of their fathers. What you obviously fail to grasp here, is that I say exactly what I consider morally right and do not bow to faddish attitudes concerning social issues.

You, obviously, dislike this, however, trying to attack me is both pointless and a waste of such erudition as you may possess; I will not adopt the PC attitudes of the urban younger generation and you might want to think about what your REAL motive-agenda here is as it is quite obvious to me.

Discrimination of any sort is not acceptable in Canada-BC and the recent interpretations of what few treaties exist in BC by various Canadian-BC courts and the subsequent activities based thereon by certain aboriginal groups ARE discrimination, plain and simple. To allow "rights" for some and not for others WILL eventually lead to a social upheaval that could destroy Canada and, this is hardly what any loyal Canuck would want, eh?

Have at 'er, laddies, I was living in the remote BC wilderness, hunting and fishing, reading Joyce, Tolstoy and Golding's Ovid, when both of you were merely gleams in your daddy's eyes...and, I will still be hunting long after you retreat to your latte shops in urban Vancouver, where you can regal your buddies with snide "bon mots" about the disgusting backwoods, blah, blah, blah, on HBC....as is oftimes said here, LMAO!

[Mr. Dean]

He must be buddies with the mods. How else could he get away with some of the things he says?

I'll probably get in trouble for making this comment.


No on both counts... In fact, DB was once tossed into exile (banned) some time ago. It has been relatively recent, and under the guise of another user-name, that he's come back and contributed to HBC, again.

DB, you are walking the line again AND it IS being noticed - I thought you should know that.


I've skimmed the thread and can't really find a *conclusive* racist comment.... If I missed it please accept my apologies. Most of what I did read was trash posts that have little to offer to a problem that is all based on hearsay and rumours, ie; nothing in this thread holds water and I wonder what the point of it all, was for (?).


So it's CLOSED.
IBTL :wink: