Permit to Accompany question...

[jamfarm]

I have a friend that is planning on coming to BC from AB to tag along with me on a hunt this fall. He has his PAL & AB hunting license but has no intention of shooting any game while he is here, the gun is solely for protection.

The reg's are clear regarding the Permit to Accompany however what is the point of getting the PtA if he has no intention of shooting anything? However, I'm not sure what a CO would think, if my buddy has his gun even though I'm the one doing the actual hunting.

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this?

[Ozone]

Can you not protect him?

[RiverOtter]

Can you not protect him?

That's besides the point.

Without looking at the legal particulars, I'm curious to hear what the "law" has to say on the subject.

[goatdancer]

We had this same situation a few years ago. The answer was NO. Our Alberta buddy would have had to go thru all the permit to accompany stuff and buy a license and tag just to pack a gun.

[CanuckShooter]

We had this same situation a few years ago. The answer was NO. Our Alberta buddy would have had to go thru all the permit to accompany stuff and buy a license and tag just to pack a gun.

You are not required by law to have a hunting license and tags to carry your firearm, or to have a firearm in your possession [anywhere in Canada].

Sorry GD>> I think someone sold you a bill of goods with that advice.

On a cautionary note, read very carefully the definition of ''hunting" in the BC regulations...and make damm sure you are NOT hunting, and do not give any answers to a CO that would make him think you are hunting.

[MuleyMadness]

This is what CS is referring to I believe...from page 3 of the Synopsis:


Hunt and Hunting

- includes shooting at,

attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following
after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying
in wait for wildlife or attempting to do any of
those things, whether or not the wildlife is then
or subsequently wounded, killed or captured:
(a) with intention to capture the wildlife, or
(b) while in possession of a firearm or other
weapon.


So by that definition, unless your friend is not in any way involved in looking for or searching for the animals, he is, by definition hunting if in possession of a firearm or other weapon.


Gonna be a tough sale to get the CO to buy into that he's not hunting (by definition remember)if he's with you, armed, while you are hunting.

[hoochie]

he can bring his firearms etc, but he cannot be armed while on the hunt. He can leave his guns in camp and target shoot, but he cannot carry while you guys are out looking for animals.

[CanuckShooter]

he can bring his firearms etc, but he cannot be armed while on the hunt. He can leave his guns in camp and target shoot, but he cannot carry while you guys are out looking for animals.

Moose is the only animal open, you have shot yours already, you & your hunting partner go for a drive to see if he can find his moose...your going to leave your pride and joy rifle back at camp in your wall tent OR your going to take it with you?? Be honest now.......:wink:

[Elkaddict]

Moose is the only animal open, you have shot yours already, you & your hunting partner go for a drive to see if he can find his moose...your going to leave your pride and joy rifle back at camp in your wall tent OR your going to take it with you?? Be honest now.......:wink:

As long as you had your license with you, you could be hunting small game, varmints, or anything that doesn't require a tag. Something would be open and legal. Much easier for a resident to pull off than a non resident without a license.

[hoochie]

Moose is the only animal open, you have shot yours already, you & your hunting partner go for a drive to see if he can find his moose...your going to leave your pride and joy rifle back at camp in your wall tent OR your going to take it with you?? Be honest now.......:wink:

Ok honestly...
take it in the vehicle locked up then.. do what you think is right, but I would advise against packing it with you while you are persuing game. Like the last posts says "it will be hard to pull that excuse off". If I was standing on the river bank holding my fishing rod.. do you think anyone would believe me I wasnt going to fish? His defence to any charges would rest on his ability to prove there was no intent to hunt. Really hard to do considering he is standing there infront of a CO with a rifle in his hands and no license to hunt.

[CanuckShooter]

Ok honestly...
take it in the vehicle locked up then.. do what you think is right, but I would advise against packing it with you while you are persuing game. Like the last posts says "it will be hard to pull that excuse off". If I was standing on the river bank holding my fishing rod.. do you think anyone would believe me I wasnt going to fish? His defence to any charges would rest on his ability to prove there was no intent to hunt. Really hard to do considering he is standing there infront of a CO with a rifle in his hands and no license to hunt.

It's one of those grey areas. IF the CO thinks your hunting he will bust you...if he uses his discretion and common sense...he may not have a problem with you packing. I would wager that on an awful lot of leh grizzly hunts the legal license carrying hunter has a buddy following him with a loaded rifle.......:wink:

[jamfarm]

You are not required by law to have a hunting license and tags to carry your firearm, or to have a firearm in your possession [anywhere in Canada].

Sorry GD>> I think someone sold you a bill of goods with that advice.

On a cautionary note, read very carefully the definition of ''hunting" in the BC regulations...and make damm sure you are NOT hunting, and do not give any answers to a CO that would make him think you are hunting.

CS is right, firearms fall under the Firearms Act which is federal and hunting falls under the Wildlife Act which is provincial.
The only other way around this thing is for the non-resident to buy a hunting license and then hunt for small game which does not require a PtA or a species license. That way he could carry his firearm. It is a technicality but who really wants to dick around with the PtA paperwork bureaucracy and give the government more of their money if they don't have to?

[jamfarm]

I think it is good to put yourself in the shoes of the non-resident, would you accompany a buddy on a hunt in bear country without a firearm because some lawyer or politician in Victoria drafted the law in a certain restrictive way, saying that if you have a firearm then you are hunting? What good would your gun be if it is locked up in the back of the truck or back at camp?
In my other post I mentioned about getting a non-res license and hunting small game but then that does show intent to hunt, I'm not sure what would be worse.
Thanks for all the replies so far...I think I need a lawyer!

[MuleyMadness]

I think it is good to put yourself in the shoes of the non-resident, would you accompany a buddy on a hunt in bear country without a firearm because some lawyer or politician in Victoria drafted the law in a certain restrictive way, saying that if you have a firearm then you are hunting? What good would your gun be if it is locked up in the back of the truck or back at camp?
In my other post I mentioned about getting a non-res license and hunting small game but then that does show intent to hunt, I'm not sure what would be worse.
Thanks for all the replies so far...I think I need a lawyer!

If he gets a non res license and he goes hunting with you, he is legal, as long as he's only there to hunt grouse or yotes, or wolves (a good one incidentally, as it's big game and a true predator), or whatever is covered in the license (I know the 338 is big for grouse, but it's not against the law).

If the two of you go hunting (because my friend, by definition, that is what he will be doing when he goes out with you hunting, and you're walking together) and he doesn't have a non res license for small game, and a CO catches you, I'd bet my bottom dollar he's gonna bust you. Because it's pretty black and white....by definition, he's hunting, and without a license, that's not so good.

Now if he was off on a hike on his own in the same general vicinity as you but not together with you, you could make a case tha the was just carrying. But standing with you and hiking with you, not so much.

It's not about putting ourselves in the shoes of anyone else. It's not a grey area, not if you read what the regs say.

[bridger]

i have had considerable experience with permits to accompany at the allocation table. it may be legal for your buddy to carry his firearm without a permit, but you are leaving yourself wide open for a possible hunting without a license charge. my advice is get the permit or leave the gun at home.

[budismyhorse]

WOW, a tonne of wrong answers on this thread so far.

CS and Bridger have it right. It is LEGAL, however you open yourself up.....may not be worth it to be perfectly honest. All it takes is someone to call you in and say the AB person WAS persuing game and now its your word against theirs......and then a mountain of BS ensues, CO calls, interviews.......NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE.

worried about protection? Get him to carry bear spray and don't let him leave your side.

I spoke to a CO about this exact thing and he warned it is legal, but it doesn't take much to be considered hunting....and they will charge you.

[goatdancer]

You are not required by law to have a hunting license and tags to carry your firearm, or to have a firearm in your possession [anywhere in Canada].

Sorry GD>> I think someone sold you a bill of goods with that advice.

On a cautionary note, read very carefully the definition of ''hunting" in the BC regulations...and make damm sure you are NOT hunting, and do not give any answers to a CO that would make him think you are hunting.

That was direct from a CO up north. We were hunting stones and our buddy wanted to pack his gun with us for Gbear protection. As you stated carrying is OK with your POL or PAL but not in any situation that could be considered hunting.