The uneducated trying to educate others

[Caribou_lou]

I was not impressed when I picked up this weeks Local Newspaper. This man talkes about LEH permits and how there were too many issued this year to resident hunters.

Here is the link http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_north/interior-news/community/100365884.html

This man has been sadly misinformed. Most likely by the Outfitter in the area.

[Jehiah]

Classic example of poor journalism. The author has only explored one angle on the LEH dispersion - that of the guide/outfitter - and failed to include that of the ministry's (the disclaimer for reasons the ministry was not interviewed was a little weak in my opinion.)
It was poorly edited so likely only made the cheap internet gazette.

[bad arrow]

He should stick to painting

[Steeleco]

“On the whole I believe the guide outfitter is more aware of the need for control of the harvest and it’s in their best interests,” Vickers said. “Guide outfitters are required to pay a grazing fee for the horses used as well as having a Coggins test done on livestock to ensure no disease is carried in to the wildlife management area. They also pay park fees and by the time the outfitters have their clients in the hunting area they have supported the local economy in many ways.”Wonder who put him up to saying this crap??

One member on the other thread about this area mentioned on average each hunter is likely to spend $1000 for a week in that area.
If the GO is collecting the money, how much of it are they sharing with the locals?

[MichelD]

There's an option for comments there. Fill it up.

[Wild_Dog]

it says comments are closed. email the piss out of her.

[Lone Ranger]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. LR

[Jelvis]

If you knew how much just one of Roy's original paintings sold for all over the world you would want to talk personally with Mr. Vickers over a good hot coffee and see his talent radiating in the elite circles in the world.
This is not your generic talent it is genius at work, maybe he is a little influenced by his pride in wild life but please this man has a talent no one can emulate.
.. One original painting and you could retire.
Jel .. He don't need your money he'd make little paper planes out of your twenty dollar bills and aim them for the fire place .. He'd take your few hundred dollar bills up onto his deck over looking the Pacific Ocean and send them off into the sea breeze so the poor walking the beaches had a treat for a change.

[RiverOtter]

I could give a shite about one of his freakin' paintings.............

His over priced paintings apply to the the LEH allotment how.............?
Do tell Jelvass....

[betteroffishing]

so he can paint , still a frickin morron with his misstated information and clearly elitist ideologies.

[Jelvis]

The Queen of England has Roy's paintings on the walls, and you don't care about his original masterpieces which include all west coast wild life and scenery. I really am slightly baffled people would fool them selves over one article which was edited by someone other than Mr. Vickers.
Over priced is another shocker, it proves you have never met this world class artist or have had the pleasure of seeing is awe inspiring work.
My name is not spelled that way either riverotter lol ..
Jel .. because you are an elk hunter too I will over look that mis spelling lol
Roy would take your last couple thousand dollar bills, roll them up and make a whistle out of them and play a tune for the needy then give the bills to charity like the local food bank .. and not blink an eye.

[jessbennett]

Well whadya know:

"For First Nations artist and local hunter Roy Henry Vickers this is unacceptable"

Too bad Roy Henry. You and your ilk kill as many as you want, 24/7. We get a couple of weeks on high odds draws.

Go **** yourself, Roy Henry.



amen.......... well put.......... :mrgreen:

[jessbennett]

The Queen of England has Roy's paintings on the walls, and you don't care about his original masterpieces which include all west coast wild life and scenery. I really am slightly baffled people would fool them selves over one article which was edited by someone other than Mr. Vickers.
Over priced is another shocker, it proves you have never met this world class artist or have had the pleasure of seeing is awe inspiring work.
My name is not spelled that way either riverotter lol ..
Jel .. because you are an elk hunter too I will over look that mis spelling lol
Roy would take your last couple thousand dollar bills, roll them up and make a whistle out of them and play a tune for the needy then give the bills to charity like the local food bank .. and not blink an eye.


so you have met the guy???? sat down and had a hot coffee together have you? you have spent some time with him watching his talent "radiate all over the world" have you?really jelly, he's just another artist. so tell us all your personal experiences with the said artist?

Who really gives a rats ass what kind of artist he is and what does his art have to do with the bullshit article that he has provided for?

[Jelvis]

Roy could take a blank colored paper like a 5x7 inch frame made of light card board, paint a picture on it in an hour and the dentist would do all his teeth like a Hollywood star to get that original.
Jel .. He don't need your money .. If you gave him a brand new dually 4x4 to go hunting in the east Kootenays he'd give it to a charity to auction off for free and ask nothing from them but to feed the hungry.
What does that say to you?

[dougster]

jelly im sure he is a nice guy, he is a great artist, but that doesnt make him an expert in this field, he is a famous name to be used in opposition to the leh draw, the point of involving him is to use his fame as a substitute for expertise..... people go... i know him, hes a great artist, he must know what he is talking about..... but as hunters and people who care about our resourses as much or more than the average person, we know he is wrong and is not better educated that the biologist who made the leh

[Jelvis]

How many people can hold up a fish while standing on a boat and whistle at eagles and have them come down from the skies and grasp the fish out of his hands. How many?

[dougster]

how many artists opinions is it going to take to screw over the leh???
how many?

[Ozone]

How many people can hold up a fish while standing on a boat and whistle at eagles and have them come down from the skies and grasp the fish out of his hands. How many?

Sorry to dissappoint you, but I have. Twice.

[Buckmeister]

Media manipulation...nothing more, nothing less....print only what is sensational and will cause a stir, leave out all viable arguements that are opposed or actually present the REAL truth, much control over the population can be had....nasty stuff.

[Jelvis]

If you sat down with Mister Vickers in front of his two storey fireplace and chewed the fat over looking the Pacific you would be in a state of humbleness and would listen to his ideas, that's all they are, he knows that he's just stating an opinion like all of us do. He's entitled to do so like we can, and we are, as you are.
Jel .. How many tentacles does a squid have? Ans, two tentacles and 8 legs

[bad arrow]

Sorry to dissappoint you, but I have. Twice.
That is impressive!

[sako_300]

Sounds like you have a hard on for this guy Jel - maybe we should make him Minister?

I think the point your trying to make (although who the hell knows with you...) it that this guy has 'profile' and not that he is a great painter and therefore knows everything about the LEH system but certainly people will listen.

You know what they say, opinions are like assholes...

[Jelvis]

How many people can act along side Chief Dan George when he was acting a while back? How many are blood relatives of Chief Dan George, how many had Chief Dan George at their wedding?
Jel .. How many know Kit Kat Lat like the back of your hand? Who ever stand up and be counted for what you are about to receive.

[SR80]

Jelvass, who cares about you useless facts on this guy, im so tired of your posts!

[jessbennett]

How many people can act along side Chief Dan George when he was acting a while back? How many are blood relatives of Chief Dan George, how many had Chief Dan George at their wedding?
Jel .. How many know Kit Kat Lack like the back of your hand? Who ever stand up and be counted.


can you? are you a blood relative of him? did you have him at your wedding? you know him like the back of your hand?

well????????? can you stand up and be counted or are you just going to stay seated like the rest of us?

:-|

[jessbennett]

Jelvass, who cares about you useless facts on this guy


do you really think these are facts or just useless drivel from the master of useless info?:confused:

[OutWest]

Looks like Jelly has everyone fired up...

[Jelvis]

Have you carved a mural out of a special red cedar 10 x 12 feet for the City of Seattle, making astronomical amount of dollars?
my name ain't Jelv---
get real lol sr79 lol
Jel .. A carver, a painter, an actor, rich, talented, looks, athletic, singer/songwriter. He don't need us but he shares with others in need. He don't need our money or our approval or acceptance.
What would you give to someone who has everything?

[jessbennett]

this mans "art" isnt even on the same page as robert bateman...... thats a wildlife artist...

and as far as giving something to someone who has everything.......... penicillin....

[Jelvis]

Bateman isn't qualified to carry this mans paint brushes.

[jessbennett]

Bateman couldn't carry this mans paint brushes.

ya...... ok.............

howcome you never answered any of the questions from earlier? you seem to know this guy on a personal basis and have apparently sipped some coffee with him.............had him at your wedding......... carved wooden shafts together...... tell us all how all this useless drivel about how your "personal" buddies "art" makes him a good spokesperson for the game harvesting etc, in the province?

tell us how your buddies opinion makes what he says "so important, right, and worth listening to"........

and as far as art is concerned, if one wants a premier piece of art that is true to the testament of game and the outdoors, bateman makes this guys art look like kindergarten fingerpainting......:wink:

[hunter1947]

My question here is are the wildlife management out to lunch when they issued this many LEH tags for this region ???.

My thoughts are is I don't think it will be a slaughter this Vickers is saying it could be if hunters take 110 sheep ,I know he is out to lunch on this remark.

My opinion is that there will be about a 35% success rate that leaving 70% sheep that will not be harvest in this years LEH draw for stone sheep.

And I am not in favor of the locale community saying how many animals should be taken in there area where they live.

If the wildlife management let all residents tell them what the amount of animals should be taken in each region then I guess we would not need any management to manage the animals each year..

[6616]

My opinion is that there will be about a 35% success rate that leaving 70% sheep that will not be harvest in this years LEH draw for stone sheep.

And I am not in favor of the locale community saying how many animals should be taken in there area where they live...

The success rate for sheep in the Spatz is actually only about 10% so about 11 rams should get killed, easily a sustainable number.

I agree with your last sentence Wayne, locals tend to protect their own interests hoping to keep "outsiders" away from their honey holes. If locals managed game we'd probably have less than half the hunting opportunities we currently enjoy.

[BCLongshot]

I'm no artist but I'm extremely good looking. Women have offered me the world but I'm taken.

This does give me the status of the worlds greatest thinker.

What do u think Jelvis ?

U buying coffee so u can sit and be overcome by my wisdom and good looks ?

[Jelvis]

Bateman's paintings would look like a paint by numbers set some kid bought at Zellers compared to Vickers masterpieces ..
JL .. He don't need your money .. He'd take your fifty dollar bills one after another roll them into tiny spit balls and toss them into a waste basket while remembering he was MVP when he played college basket ball .. He'd ruin your one crisp one hundred dollar bill and use it to light his Cuban hand rolled cigar while he watched a pod of returning Killer whales swim by his Ocean front pool. Enjoying the panoramic west coast view with his many friends, laughing and frolicking in the fresh salty sea breeze while massaging his back in the hot tub jet pool sipping on an ice chilled creamy Corona in the morning sunshine.

[Caribou_lou]

The success rate for sheep in the Spatz is actually only about 10% so about 11 rams should get killed, easily a sustainable number.


I am sure this has been said in another thread. But the reason being for the 110 tags issued to residents is so we can reach our harvest of our allocated 11 rams. We have been unable do this in the past years because we were not being issued enough Permits in the park. Success rate is around 10 %. On a good season.

So this being said, we should reach, or at least come close to our 11 sheep by seasons end.

Jelvis... I respect ones opinion, but Mr. Vickers should really do his research.

[hunter1947]

The success rate for sheep in the Spatz is actually only about 10% so about 11 rams should get killed, easily a sustainable number.

I agree with your last sentence Wayne, locals tend to protect their own interests hoping to keep "outsiders" away from their honey holes. If locals managed game we'd probably have less than half the hunting opportunities we currently enjoy.


Andy is this percentage of 11 rams from 2009 ???? ,or the 110 sheep application for the LEH for 2010 season ???.

[Caribou_lou]

Andy is this percentage of 11 rams from 2009 ???? ,or the 110 sheep application for the LEH for 2010 season ???.

This is the first year residents have been given 110 permits, there were 50 issued in 2009.

[hunter1947]

This is the first year residents have been given 110 permits, there were 50 issued in 2009.


Well then Like I said there might be 30 sheep taken in 2010..

[Caribou_lou]

Well then Like I said there might be 30 sheep taken in 2010..

Look at the numbers. If there was a chance of us taking 30 sheep they would not have issued 110 permits. Simple math.

[hunter1947]

Correct me if I am wrong but the management has increased the LEH draws in the Spatsizi by 45 % this allows 45% more tags for stones and in this case puts 45 more hunters in the field ..

6616 said that there where 11 sheep taken on the average and it worked out to 60 LEH permits.

So I would think that by almost doubling the LEH permits that there should be a 25 to 30% success rate on stones ????....

[Caribou_lou]

Correct me if I am wrong but the management has increased the LEH draws in the Spatsizi by 45 % this allows 45% more tags for stones and in this case puts 45 more hunters in the field ..

6616 said that there where 11 sheep taken on the average and it worked out to 60 LEH permits.

So I would think that by almost doubling the LEH permits that there should be a 25 to 30% success rate on stones ????....

We were at 50 tags. Taking 10% on a good year. Which is 5 sheep.

We are now at 110 tags. If we do take 10%, that will give us 11, which is our allocation.

So its not likely we will hit 30.

[RiverOtter]

Not to mention that doubling the number of hunters does not equate to a doubling of the sheep harvested, as every sheep harvested means one less opportunity for the next hunter coming in.

[700bdl]

Bateman's paintings would look like a paint by numbers set some kid bought at Zellers compared to Vickers masterpieces ..
JL .. He don't need your money .. He'd take your fifty dollar bills one after another roll them into tiny spit balls and toss them into a waste basket while remembering he was MVP when he played college basket ball .. He'd ruin your one crisp one hundred dollar bill and use it to light his Cuban hand rolled cigar while he watched a pod of returning Killer whales swim by his Ocean front pool. Enjoying the panoramic west coast view with his many friends, laughing and frolicking in the fresh salty sea breeze while massaging his back in the hot tub jet pool sipping on an ice chilled creamy Corona in the morning sunshine.

Does this guy ever contribute a sensible post?

[RiverOtter]

Apparently he misunderstood the "Joke for your FIRST post" rule and proceeded to make every post a joke.......

BTW Jelvass, we're all so very impressed the the magnitude of this indian's wealth......Please continue to woo us with burning fifties and hundred dollar paper planes.

[jessbennett]

Apparently he misunderstood the "Joke for your FIRST post" rule and proceeded to make every post a joke.......

BTW Jelvass, we're all so very impressed the the magnitude of this indian's wealth......Please continue to woo us with burning fifties and hundred dollar paper planes.

yes burning 50's and 100 dollar paper planes make this indestructible painter a turn to guy in wildlife managment ideas........:-|

i always thought jokes were suppost to make you laugh not shake your head.........

[IronNoggin]

Bateman's paintings would look like a paint by numbers set some kid bought at Zellers compared to Vickers masterpieces ..

Are you High? No real need to answer that one, I do believe you have well indicated your mind's state with that particular statement... :roll:

For any interested, here is a link to what this fellow Vickers dabbles in: http://www.royhenryvickers.com/prints

And now one to what Bateman is capable of: http://www.robertbateman.ca/art/arttitlepage.html

No real need methinks to suggest just which one of them is a True Artist, and which one more resembles the Zeller's Kid image! :mrgreen:

If this fellow thinks and toots his horn only as well as he paints, methinks he should have left the subject COMPLETELY alone! :eek:

And btw JelloMan, does the coin impress you? Must be, the "art" certainly can't...

Nog

[jessbennett]

Are you High? No real need to answer that one, I do believe you have well indicated your mind's state with that particular statement... :roll:

For any interested, here is a link to what this fellow Vickers dabbles in: http://www.royhenryvickers.com/prints

And now one to what Bateman is capable of: http://www.robertbateman.ca/art/arttitlepage.html

No real need methinks to suggest just which one of them is a True Artist, and which one more resembles the Zeller's Kid image! :mrgreen:

If this fellow thinks and toots his horn only as well as he paints, methinks he should have left the subject COMPLETELY alone! :eek:

And btw JelloMan, does the coin impress you? Must be, the "art" certainly can't...

Nog


you beat me to it. i was just going to post a link to this "super" artists work. :-|...
and ol jelly says bateman couldnt hold his brushes...... hahaha. . . . .
bateman could come up with something better blindfolded i think....

[Fisher-Dude]

LOL!

Roy Henry's finest:

http://www.royhenryvickers.com/img/600/Bulkley_River_1238095157.jpg


And then a Bateman masterpiece:


http://www.robertbateman.ca/art/RMBMasters/images/RMB%20images%20Masters%20Show/RMBGrizzlyAtRest.jpg




***** @ Jellypaintbynumbers!

[Jelvis]

Are you trying to bate me lol

[700bdl]

I just checked out those two link showing the artists work. This roy vickers work looks like a pre-schoolers drawing. My niece has drawn nicer pictures of animals. Batemans are totally lifelike. Like they were pictures taken with a camera.

[Jelvis]

Big difference in a photo of a painting on an internet monitor and btw silk screening is harder to do then a guy copying a picture of a dead bear and tracing it. Even you can trace a picture through onion paper that's simple stuff.
Silk screening is for the educated.
Jel .. Tracing over a photo isn't that hard .. we learn that in grade 5.

[RiverOtter]

Lemme guess, this local boy is a tracer as well..... https://www.exquisitia.com/cubecart/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=86

Wish I'd of known before I hung one of his prints in my house...

[bad arrow]

come on jelvis, Vickers art although interesting it looks the same whether I turn it upside down or turn it sideways, I have a couple pieces and if it didn't have a sticker telling me which way to hang it...well. Bateman and Vickers are both outstanding in their field, you cant compare, but keep trying.

[RiverOtter]

And another...

https://www.exquisitia.com/cubecart/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=88

[Downwind]

Wow this thread has gone way off track! lol I recently saw Vickers' paintings in Tofino and yes he is a great ARTIST. Unfortunately for him ART has nothing to do with BIOLOGY. Just because he has a passion for the outdoors and incorporates it into his art does not give him the intelligence to determine, or even make speculations, on the number of LEH tags that should be designated for any animal in region. Let him stick to his paint pots and let the scientists stick to making decisions on LEH allocations.

[jessbennett]

Big difference in a photo of a painting on an internet monitor and btw silk screening is harder to do then a guy copying a picture of a dead bear and tracing it. Even you can trace a picture through onion paper that's simple stuff.
Silk screening is for the educated.
Jel .. Tracing over a photo isn't that hard .. we learn that in grade 5.


keep graspin them straws jelly............. and your right. a computer monitor just doesnt do a bateman painting justice. you should see them in person. they look real. not like a paint spill.

[BromBones]

Anyone else wonder why the mods will nuke any posts that go off track in other threads, but allow JELVIS to continue posting this mindless crap that he dreams up? Biggest troll on HBC and hasn't made a post on topic in 5 years.

Ban the frickin guy.

[jessbennett]

Anyone else wonder why the mods will nuke any posts that go off track in other threads, but allow JELVIS to continue posting this mindless crap that he dreams up? Biggest troll on HBC and hasn't made a post on topic in 5 years.

Ban the frickin guy.


thank you...... amen.......

[SUAFOYT]

Bateman isn't qualified to carry this mans paint brushes.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder sport- while Vickers' work is interesting they don't depict wildlife, they depict his version of it. Bold colours for sure but go into any native art store and there's a lot of the same stuff only without his name. Just my opinion Jelvis. Be careful of who you denigrate. Some who have a vast quantity of posts don't really have much of interest to say:-D

[IslandHunterBXL]

Bateman's paintings would look like a paint by numbers set some kid bought at Zellers compared to Vickers masterpieces ..
JL .. He don't need your money .. He'd take your fifty dollar bills one after another roll them into tiny spit balls and toss them into a waste basket while remembering he was MVP when he played college basket ball .. He'd ruin your one crisp one hundred dollar bill and use it to light his Cuban hand rolled cigar while he watched a pod of returning Killer whales swim by his Ocean front pool. Enjoying the panoramic west coast view with his many friends, laughing and frolicking in the fresh salty sea breeze while massaging his back in the hot tub jet pool sipping on an ice chilled creamy Corona in the morning sunshine.
People are asking how his artist status makes his oppinion worth more than anyone elses and you keep responding with how much money and toys this guy has. You should write rap songs. Thats all they friggin talk about too!

[Jelvis]

Look one more thing before I sign off on this interesting thread about sheep allotment in the form of more available tags for resident hunters.
Which I think is fantastic but it's not about me.
I'm just relating how one fella who mentions his opinion on something can get pigeon holed by the media's written story giving one interview.
I didn't need to tell you that Mr. Vickers sat at the same table as the Queen of England and the Prince himself.
I didn't need to tell you about Roy being a rodeo star as well, breaking broncs in the interior. That's why I never mentioned it.
Roy don't need any acceptance or praise any more he stood before dignitaries, he dined with celebrities, he shook hands with top leaders.
I didn't need to tell you lots of things, and that is why I didn't. I could have but I didn't.
Bateman is unreal too I was bs'n a bit ok, he is a great artist, any one could see that, so that's it, and enjoy the time we have to get out there and do some serious hunting in a beautiful setting.
Jel .. Let's get in sheep shape ..
Bye hunters.

[IronNoggin]

...
I'm just relating how one fella who mentions his opinion on something can get pigeon holed by the media's written story giving one interview.

Without any semblance of scrutiny nor Ministerial (or any) response. Hmmmm...


Bateman is unreal too I was bs'n a bit ok, he is a great artist, any one could see that, so that's it, and enjoy the time we have to get out there and do some serious hunting in a beautiful setting.

Took that one right in. Met Bateman, have a little of his, and am obviously biased. http://bestsmileys.com/peace/2.gif

Didn't need "the source's" credentials actually. To a point irrelevant in my mind's eye.

Cheers,
Nog

PS: First damn post by yourself I've ever understood :mrgreen:

[Caribou_lou]

Here it is Jel. He may be a great artist. But Roy Vickers makes a total fool of himself in this newspaper arcticle.

The only research this guy did was Call the guide outfitter and believed everything he was told. Doesn't sound like a bright guy to me.

Fact is... We were getting screwed for years with the amount of tags we were previously getting. As for the Moose on the Stikine... There are still GOS areas up there. So tag or not people would still go up. Found it funny the guy never mentioned that 6-20 went from being GOS for 3 months down to 1 month.

Caribou_lou...... Roy Vickers, Not as bright as his pictures!!

[Jelvis]

Hey Louie if you got the money to go on sheep hunts and able to take the time off work I can't feel sorry for you or Roy, keep spending your money cuz I won't be hunting sheep up there. I'm just ordinary folk. I got family to look after and things to care for here.
Jel .. It's a sport nothing to lose hair over .. I gotta a full head of hair still. I like fun not anxiety.
I'll take a moose for meat LW and leave the trophy hunters to rant and worry about it .. I'm not in your big dollar world of politics.

[jessbennett]

Hey Louie if you got the money to go on sheep hunts and the time off work I can't feel sorry for you or Roy, keep spending your money cuz I won't be hunting sheep up there. I'm just ordinary folk.
Jel .. It's a sport nothing to lose hair over .. I gotta a full head of hair still.
I'll take a moose for meat LW and leave the trophy hunters to rant .. I'm not in your big dollar world.

what the hell are you talking about??????? you were the one spewing off about this over rated artists money!!!!!!!
Just remember jelly, sheep hunters are just ordinary folk too. ...........

[Jelvis]

Ordinary people with extra money to spend on sports. I don't have extra money like lou and Roy.

[jessbennett]

Ordinary people with extra money to spend on sports. I don't have extra money like lou and Roy.


sheep hunters have families too........... some guys spend their "hunting money" on sheep hunting, and sheep hunting alone. lots of people go on hunting trips......

pretty sure these guys work their asses off for the money they make, and work their asses off to be able to use it to fund the hunting they love......

and really how the heck do you know what others financial situations are?Lots of guys go to the bush to do what they love whether the can really afford it or not.

sounds to me like your just jealous......... "you cant feel sorry for someone because they can afford to take time of work, or can afford to go on these trips in the first place?" jeez dude, get over it....

finally for the original topic, vickers was illinformed and had no business contributing to the article the way he did. He had the advice of someone who had an abvious tainted view(personal agenda), regarding the the hunt and authorizations issued. If he was going to contribute positively in any way to the article he would have spoken to the game branch, among others to get an acurate and in depth article.
His article was lacking anything credible and I'm sure he was hoping that it would get across because of "who he is", and not "what he knows"......
still......... the article was a "fail".

[happyhunter]

Jelvis I get what your saying (I think) That Roy makes sooo much money he doesnt need to be paid by the outfitters for making that statement. And even if he needed the money he still wouldnt take it because he is a man of impecable character. Fine, Ill believe you. However his opinion that those resident hunters get too many LEHs is crap. And if he was misquoted by the guy getting the story then that is crap. The outfitter knowing how to better manage the area then the bio's is crap. That whole article was, well, take a guess.

[Caribou_lou]

Hey Louie if you got the money to go on sheep hunts and able to take the time off work I can't feel sorry for you or Roy, keep spending your money cuz I won't be hunting sheep up there. I'm just ordinary folk. I got family to look after and things to care for here.
Jel .. It's a sport nothing to lose hair over .. I gotta a full head of hair still. I like fun not anxiety.
I'll take a moose for meat LW and leave the trophy hunters to rant and worry about it .. I'm not in your big dollar world of politics.


I don't know where this post came from? or what you are trying to say?

Post something worth reading.

[Jelvis]

Man how old are you? lol..
Jel .. If your playing stupid your winning big time .. lol ..
You must be older than me lol .. when did you go sheep hunting last if you dare tell the truth lol ..?
Do you hunt sheep anymore or do you? It's a Sport not a food issue .. it's the challenge the sport of it.

[jessbennett]

Man how old are you? lol..
Jel .. If your playing stupid your winning big time .. lol ..
You must be older than me lol .. when did you go sheep hunting last if you dare tell the truth lol ..?
Do you hunt sheep anymore or do you? It's a Sport not a food issue .. it's the challenge the sport of it.


did i just hear you tell someone else they were playing stupid????? If theres any winners to that game your the champ.............
who gives a rats ass to what sheep hunting is to an individual person?????
you cant afford it..... fine...... move on........ suck it up...........
hunting is hunting........ im sure the meat is packed out, so therefore its a food issue. . .

really what does the last time someone has gone sheep hunting have to do with anything other than to fuel your jealousy and bitterness about not being able to afford it even more?:-|

[Caribou_lou]

Man how old are you? lol..
Jel .. If your playing stupid your winning big time .. lol ..
You must be older than me lol .. when did you go sheep hunting last if you dare tell the truth lol ..?
Do you hunt sheep anymore or do you? It's a Sport not a food issue .. it's the challenge the sport of it.

Must be having a bad day there Jel. Drink some more Cranberry juice old man.

I'm 24, I've been sheep hunting since I was 14. I have 1 good stone under my belt and have passed up a few since. Went sheep hunting August 1st of this year. Looking to get my buddy a ram.

It's not a sport issue, its resident opportunity.

You have yet to make a post to this thread of any relevance to the topic.

Caribou_lou.... Bring it on Jelypoo...So full of BS I can smell you!

[Jelvis]

Have another beer, I got three children older than you and one younger lol and they all are educated in the modern day up to date colleges down here in modern society lol.
Jel not raised in the mountain back country omg lol .. I I can't oh never mind lol .. hil-------s

[6616]

Well then Like I said there might be 30 sheep taken in 2010..

No, with 50 permits ram harvest ran around 2 to 6 rams per year or about 10% or a little less. If the success rate stays the same about 10 or 11 rams could get killed this year with 110 permits.

[6616]

Correct me if I am wrong but the management has increased the LEH draws in the Spatsizi by 45 % this allows 45% more tags for stones and in this case puts 45 more hunters in the field ..

6616 said that there where 11 sheep taken on the average and it worked out to 60 LEH permits.

So I would think that by almost doubling the LEH permits that there should be a 25 to 30% success rate on stones ????....

No Wayne, I didn't say there were 11 rams taken on average, I predicted the 2010 harvest would be about 11 with the increase to 110 permits.

[Tenacious Billy]

Must be having a bad day there Jel. Drink some more Cranberry juice old man.

I'm 24, I've been sheep hunting since I was 14. I have 1 good stone under my belt and have passed up a few since. Went sheep hunting August 1st of this year. Looking to get my buddy a ram.

It's not a sport issue, its resident opportunity.

You have yet to make a post to this thread of any relevance to the topic.

Caribou_lou.... Bring it on Jelypoo...So full of BS I can smell you!


The majority of his posts have zero relevance to any topic.

[Jelvis]

You'd think after four years he would have figured that one out eh? lol ..
Jelsome slow learners lol .. kissin cousinzville .. and then asks for more on top of it lol ..

[6616]

Ok, so the numbers I quoted were from memory only, I decided to look up Region 6 sheep harvest data. This is what I came up with:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Spatsizi_Sheep.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=20122&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=3468)

As you can see the actual success rate is only 5% or just under. Actual annual harvest has been 1 to 3 rams. Resident allocation is 11 rams. This would require 265 permits. The 80 permits shown for 2010 was the original intent of MOE (you will note their estimated harvest for 80 permits was 3.32 rams) but the BCWF Wildlife committee talked them into increasing it to 110. The estimated harvest should now be about 5.5 rams, still far short of the 11 rams allocated to resident hunters. This is not due to lobbying from the outfitter, this is primarily due to the restrictive policy BC Parks has towards hunting. I do not know what the non-resident quota is.

[6616]

The Spatsizi situation is not unique in the Skeena, or not just unique to the Skeena LEH sheep areas. To illustrate the mess of the current sheep management regime take a look at the overall Skeena Region sheep harvest.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Skeena_Sheep_Harvest1.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=20123&size=big&cat=recent&limit=recent)

Note that non-residents are harvesting many more sheep than residents and it's taking residents about twice as many hunter days to harvest a ram. There needs to be some changes made, the resident only sheep season to start a week or two before non-residents can hunt really sounded like a good idea to me.

[BromBones]

, this is primarily due to the restrictive policy BC Parks has towards hunting. I do not know what the non-resident quota is.

By that are you talking access issues?

I believe Collingwoods quota is 13 in 2.

[Caribou_lou]

Thanks for posting those numbers 6166.

[blackbart]

Very interesting thread going on here. Below are my random thoughts / suggestions regarding the matter:

- Both artists are masters at their craft, but their skills are not relevant to the discussion.
- The GO operating in the area is well known to not be "resident friendly". Seems to me there has been lots of previous discussions regarding the difficulties associated with getting a flight???
- We, as residents should be open to sharing info on this LEH hunt (provided you have some of relevance, as opposed to Jellybeandrivelnonsenserepeatadlytothepointofnause a) to help those that have been fortunate enough to be drawn.
- In the future residents should research the hunt prior to applying! Many better access areas do not require an LEH.
- If you applied and recieved an LEH for the area please make the effort to go on the hunt. I suspect that the primary reason for low success is lack of effort.

For those that got drawn this year post up some stories to either help future LEH holders, or dissuade those that apply on a whim and never do go.

BB

[6616]

By that are you talking access issues?

I believe Collingwoods quota is 13 in 2.

Some access issues due to Parks permits required for flying in or taking horses in, camping restrictions or limitations in certain areas, but primarily just Parks ultra-conservative policy towards hunting and their strong opposition to increasing the number of LEH permits.

The BC Parks staff are really squirming at the increased number of LEH permits for this fall and there's really hardly any chance they'll ever let MOE actually issue enough permits to allow the full utilization of the resident allocation. Similar situations exist in many Provincial Parks all over BC.

If Collingwood quota is 13 in 2 he's probably killing more sheep then resident hunters, but that's nothing new, that happens all over Region 6.

Anyway, the stats clearly show that Roy Vickers concerns about sheep harvests are completelly unfounded. That's nothing new either, it appears to be common ground for outfitters and First Nations to try to to restrict resident hunter competition for game these days.

[hunter1947]

No Wayne, I didn't say there were 11 rams taken on average, I predicted the 2010 harvest would be about 11 with the increase to 110 permits.


OK I see what you said my mistake sorry Andy I miss read it http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif..

[BromBones]

The BC Parks staff are really squirming at the increased number of LEH permits for this fall and there's really hardly any chance they'll ever let MOE actually issue enough permits to allow the full utilization of the resident allocation. Similar situations exist in many Provincial Parks all over BC.


I see. Didn't think that BC parks was that opposed to hunting.

You'd think they'd welcome a few more hunters, since the amount of funding they recieve is related a lot to the number of park users. Probably half of the people signed in on the sheet at the EN Trailhead this year were hunters.

[Caribou_lou]

Heres the article in this weeks paper.

Heres the link. http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_north/interior-news/community/100902089.html

[Caribou_lou]

Not sure I agree with Gene Allen on this one.

I don't feel they are mismanaging by any means. I think what they have done with the Caribou hunts and Goat in the park is a step in the right dirrection. Would also like to see more of those combo hunts. Only Moose and Caribou right now. Would be nice if they made a few more combo hunts for next season.

[6616]

OK I see what you said my mistake sorry Andy I miss read it http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif..

No problem Wayne, that's allowed at our age...

[6616]

Not sure I agree with Gene Allen on this one.

I don't feel they are mismanaging by any means. I think what they have done with the Caribou hunts and Goat in the park is a step in the right dirrection. Would also like to see more of those combo hunts. Only Moose and Caribou right now. Would be nice if they made a few more combo hunts for next season.

I don't agree with Marshall basing the number of authorizations on a 10% success rate when the actual success rate is only 4%.

I do agree that they should just put it on GOS, and that the combo hunts are a very good idea.

[6616]

I see. Didn't think that BC parks was that opposed to hunting.

You'd think they'd welcome a few more hunters, since the amount of funding they recieve is related a lot to the number of park users. Probably half of the people signed in on the sheet at the EN Trailhead this year were hunters.

BC Parks attitude to hunters varies from Park to Park and is more pronounced in the southern high profile parks like Assiniboine and the Purcell Wilderness Conservancy, etc, however the north is not immune, especially the Spatz and Tat. Would be nice if they were all managed like the MK (Northern Rockies).

[Caribou_lou]

I don't agree with Marshall basing the number of authorizations on a 10% success rate when the actual success rate is only 4%.

I do agree that they should just put it on GOS, and that the combo hunts are a very good idea.

I can bet Collingwoods would not be for the GOS, but I actually think LEH
does atract alot of attention to the area, so they could possibly see a drop in the number of resident hunters in the park if it were to go on GOS.

[troutseeker]

How many people can hold up a fish while standing on a boat and whistle at eagles and have them come down from the skies and grasp the fish out of his hands. How many?

Every single one of them who find themsleves standing in a boat, holding a fish and who can whistle when eagles are nearby. The silly birds are suckers for a handout, like so many others.

[CanuckShooter]

The Spatsizi situation is not unique in the Skeena, or not just unique to the Skeena LEH sheep areas. To illustrate the mess of the current sheep management regime take a look at the overall Skeena Region sheep harvest.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Skeena_Sheep_Harvest1.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=20123&size=big&cat=recent&limit=recent)

Note that non-residents are harvesting many more sheep than residents and it's taking residents about twice as many hunter days to harvest a ram. There needs to be some changes made, the resident only sheep season to start a week or two before non-residents can hunt really sounded like a good idea to me.


It just looks like the non-residents are outhunting the pants off the resident hunters. As is typical of those that cannot keep up with the pack you'll start demanding that the playing field be levelled out by having an earlier season opened?? Why not recognize that your just not on top of your game?? Your getting your azz whooped...and now your whining and seeking special treatment...get over it.:mrgreen:

[reach]

It just looks like the non-residents are outhunting the pants off the resident hunters. As is typical of those that cannot keep up with the pack you'll start demanding that the playing field be levelled out by having an earlier season opened?? Why not recognize that your just not on top of your game?? Your getting your azz whooped...and now your whining and seeking special treatment...get over it.:mrgreen:
If I were paying for a guide, I would bloody well better have a higher success rate than unguided. Otherwise there's not much point going on a guided hunt. It's no surprise the success rate is higher. The total number harvested is way out of whack though.

[6616]

It just looks like the non-residents are outhunting the pants off the resident hunters. As is typical of those that cannot keep up with the pack you'll start demanding that the playing field be levelled out by having an earlier season opened?? Why not recognize that your just not on top of your game?? Your getting your azz whooped...and now your whining and seeking special treatment...get over it.:mrgreen:

Don't they always (like Reach says), it's sort of expected. Point is there is an allocation policy that states non-residents are suposed to be restricted by quota to a 40% maximum share of the harvest. What about that quota,,,,,, there's fewer sheep in Region 6 but a higher non-resident quota than Region 7b....WTF..???

[CanuckShooter]

Don't they always (like Reach says), it's sort of expected. Point is there is an allocation policy that states non-residents are suposed to be restricted by quota to a 40% maximum share of the harvest. What about that quota,,,,,, there's fewer sheep in Region 6 but a higher non-resident quota than Region 7b....WTF..???

That is right up there with 'enhanced odds' in the Leh draws:icon_frow.......someday someone will figure out just how bad we are being led around by the guide outfitting business....maybe.

[6616]

someday someone will figure out just how bad we are being led around by the guide outfitting business....maybe.

Well I think many of us have figured that out a long time ago, question is what do we do about it....how can we change that....? We don't seem to have a stratgey....