Update on Skooke's Landing (Kechika River) FN's Closure (Protest)

[sako_300]

Photo: A sign placed at the entry to the Kechika River near Coal River, BC - Submitted
The Kaska Dena Council on behalf of the three communities in the area has put up and locked a gate leading into a popular hunting area near the Kechika River.
The gate was put up and locked Wednesday on the Skooke’s Landing access road, near Coal River, B.C.
The Council represents the Kwadacha, Good Hope Lake and Lower Post communities.
The Council feels that the area has been overhunted in the past few years and it is taking steps to protect the wildlife in the area.
The Council apparently has evidence that hunters have been killing animals and not packing up the meat, essentially wasting the meat. As well, there has been a lot of garbage left behind, and resident hunters have been having a large impact on the Kechika River and adjoining watersheds.
The Council has sent numerous letters to the Environment Minister, Barry Penner, but has not had its concerns addressed to their satisfaction.

Kaska Dena Council Chair George Miller says the Council’s main goal is to have discussions with the Environment Minister to have limited entry hunting in its traditional territory. Miller says it’s important for them to address both over hunting and safety concerns.


The Council also wants help funding a monitoring program to ensure the hunters entering the area take whatever they hunt with them.

Currently anyone is free to enter the area and there are no conservation officers located in the area.

Miller says despite what the ministry might say, he feels there are problems with over hunting.


The most recent information is the gate will likely be unlocked by this afternoon as the Council has been able to set up a meeting with the regional manager of the Peace Region for the Ministry of Environment.

The regional manager from the Ministry of Environment, has not yet returned our phone calls.
Update: A ministry official provided a written statment of how the ministry is working with the Kaska Dena First Nations.

The statement provided says:
The Ministry of Environment and Kaska Dena Council have agreed to meet and discuss access and hunting management in the Kechika River watershed. The gate on the Skooks Landing access road is open to the public at this time.

The government of British Columbia has worked closely with the Kaska Dena to address their wildlife management related concerns. Our working relationship has always been and will continue to be productive and respectful.




Won't get into my opinion as the last thread was locked. Suffice to say this will be an eventful season if this continues.



Full article here:

http://energeticcity.ca/fortstjohn/news/08/13/10/first-nations-group-halts-access-hunting-area

[Creeker]

I am asuming they are part of the same FN band that has ownership of the Turnagain river outfitters area.
Pretty peculiar dont you think.

[Devilbear]

Not at all, this is simply "hardball" corporate business and is much like the "traditional" commercial Sockeye seine fishery in Osoyoos Lake. We have been repeatedly warned by some of their "leaders" as to the longterm agenda and every political trick in the book has and is being played.....much as the "Iroquois" did in eastern Canada and the USA 350 years and longer ago.

I won't get into specific details to avoid any "lockup" and this topic, in general, has been beaten to death here, however, this WILL spread and WILL severely curtail our resident hunting rights, unless we act now and act very firmly, within the laws as they are currently written.

We ARE the majority and the way to beat this is quite obvious, let's hope people wake up and act before it is too late.

[Bear Chaser]

There are enough welders with portable rigs in this part of the province that I' sure any gates across public access areas will not last long.

[22savage]

Got to feel bad for guys who plan trips and take their holidays to go into these area's only to met by this type of bs

[moose2]

I phoned the number on the sign today. The woman that answered couldn't tell me much. She did say the launch access is closed to all users boaters, hikers ,campers , photographers , and for fishing and hunting. She also said the site was being watched by the band. I never found out about access for outfitters, guides or thier clients. The fact that they are including all user groups dosn't go with the case they are using about hunting abuse , which they claimed was the reason for the landing closer as said in the news artical . I am not sure if it would help but the office opens on Monday at 9:00 maybe a couple hundred calls and questions a day may be a pain to them. 250-779-3181 hopefully this gets resolved with out a frusterated hunter getting in shit fighting for our rights as BC citizens and resident hunters with paid for tags and licences in our pockets.
MIKE

[Riverratz]

Six of us went up Kechika in '08 and 09, two boats. No problems or issues, but there wasn't any gate or blockade then either.

We left a total of approx. $6000 per year up in that neck of the woods on groceries, fuel, meals, misc. etc. In '09 we pre-ordered and bought 1400 L. of boat fuel from Coal River, plus about 300 L. of diesel for two trucks, + meals at the cafe, etc., that bill alone was almost $3000. In '08 we dropped that much at the now belly-up/defunct Liard River Hotsprings Resort, which was being run by the FN's at that time.
That was just our group. In our case, trip expenses worked out to about $1000/person in total

In '09 there were 12 rigs at Skook's when we departed, and 50-60 rigs when we arrived back to pull out. That doesn't include an unknown # of rigs that had already been up river and left before we got there,.... or during, ......or after. We were up river for 2 weeks.
I think it's safe to assume at least two people per boat, and probably a safe minimal estimate would be 150 rigs in total X 2 people X $1000 = $300,000 dropped directly into the economy up there. And, IMO, that's probably conservative to say the least, and doesn't include guide/outfitters.

Unless this issue gets resolved once and for all we'll spend our money in those parts of the Province, (or elsewhere), where we hunters and our money are welcome and appreciated.
We were going to do Stikine, etc. this year until all the unresolved hoop-la at Klappan, so we nixed those plans last winter.
AND, we're certainly not going to gamble 2-3 days driving and thousands of dollars only to find our access to "public/Crown land" has been unlawfully blocked at either Skook's or Klappan, and no one anywhere prepared to do anything about it.
And even if access is begrudgingly allowed, who can enjoy themselves while being worried sick about what's left of all the riggin' back at the launch. No thanks.

There are those who apparently have the right to do as they please with no fear of repercussion from the law. Very nice.....those people get their wish.......they won't be seeing us or our money again. I wouldn't go back up there if they personally delivered a gold-plated invitation. Bye-bye, have a nice existence.
Yup, they get what they wanted, but who gets the last laugh ? I hope they sit at their blockade all year and not one person shows up, then we'll see who wins.

How's that for silent retribution ?
Let's see someone blockade and protest that !!!!

[todbartell]

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o205/todbartell/n692419241_279899_1444.jpg

[srupp]

I feel bad for those that have planned to go into places like these..there are more like that being talked about in the Cariboo region and one or 2 pop up..good post RiverRatz
Steven

[Fisher-Dude]

The Council apparently has evidence that hunters have been killing animals and not packing up the meat, essentially wasting the meat. As well, there has been a lot of garbage left behind, and resident hunters have been having a large impact on the Kechika River and adjoining watersheds.

Kaska Dena Council Chair George Miller says the Council’s main goal is to have discussions with the Environment Minister to have limited entry hunting in its traditional territory.

If people can't see what's going on here, they are blind.

[BlacktailStalker]

This is pathetic. Its a big game.
Well actually its not a game, its a childish way to get our gov't on its back.... wait, they already are, now they're grabbing ankles.

Anybody in the cement industry ? A few good men and a couple loads of cement, reinforced with steel built RIGHT on this side of THEIR roadblock. About ten of them, every half km or so.
This is of course to keep them from entering OUR country, which is opposite any area they are preventing us from entering, right ?
Would this be right or wrong ?

Thing is if there was a majority of natives that DIDNT agree with all this shit thats going on (that means any reading this, any from any other band, tribe or w/e the proper term is now a days) none of this would be an issue if they spoke up because if majority spoke, thats how it would be.
Why dont the natives who clearly have more of a voice concerning issues among their race speak up and start working towards equality instead of crying about it when some faceless redneck online disrespects you.

Who's worse here ?

Is it not in everybodys best interest to come to an agreement and work it out, imagine if everybody who was unhappy set up a road block! (I wasn't speeding so thats it! I'm setting up a road block... I was charged for organic grapes and these arent organic! Thats it I'm setting up a road block :lol:)

This province is a mess.
They can put men on different planets, carbon copy people genetically but they cant deal with the indian issues.

Give them a choice, join the province or get out. we've evolved, things have changed, its just the way it is now.
IF that isnt enough, sorry, here is your land and water, size based on the the population that chooses to 'rebel,' claim independance and let them go about their business.

If that isnt what they want then they are just being a bunch of 'thugs' and bullying BC, treat them like any other gang member and smash their face into the road, cuff 'em and throw them in a cell.

[Coming_out_heavy.]

Is it even legal for them to put a locked gate on that road into the landing? I paid alot of income tax last year, and I feel like I am funding that whole gong show in one way or another.

[CanuckShooter]

This is pathetic. Its a big game.
Well actually its not a game, its a childish way to get our gov't on its back.... wait, they already are, now they're grabbing ankles.

Anybody in the cement industry ? A few good men and a couple loads of cement, reinforced with steel built RIGHT on this side of THEIR roadblock. About ten of them, every half km or so.
This is of course to keep them from entering OUR country, which is opposite any area they are preventing us from entering, right ?
Would this be right or wrong ?

Thing is if there was a majority of natives that DIDNT agree with all this shit thats going on (that means any reading this, any from any other band, tribe or w/e the proper term is now a days) none of this would be an issue if they spoke up because if majority spoke, thats how it would be.
Why dont the natives who clearly have more of a voice concerning issues among their race speak up and start working towards equality instead of crying about it when some faceless redneck online disrespects you.

Who's worse here ?

Is it not in everybodys best interest to come to an agreement and work it out, imagine if everybody who was unhappy set up a road block! (I wasn't speeding so thats it! I'm setting up a road block... I was charged for organic grapes and these arent organic! Thats it I'm setting up a road block :lol:)

This province is a mess.
They can put men on different planets, carbon copy people genetically but they cant deal with the indian issues.

Give them a choice, join the province or get out. we've evolved, things have changed, its just the way it is now.
IF that isnt enough, sorry, here is your land and water, size based on the the population that chooses to 'rebel,' claim independance and let them go about their business.

If that isnt what they want then they are just being a bunch of 'thugs' and bullying BC, treat them like any other gang member and smash their face into the road, cuff 'em and throw them in a cell.




>>>The Council feels that the area has been overhunted in the past few years and it is taking steps to protect the wildlife in the area.
The Council apparently has evidence that hunters have been killing animals and not packing up the meat, essentially wasting the meat. As well, there has been a lot of garbage left behind, and resident hunters have been having a large impact on the Kechika River and adjoining watersheds.
The Council has sent numerous letters to the Environment Minister, Barry Penner, but has not had its concerns addressed to their satisfaction.<<<


I just cannot understand why these radical indians think trying to address these problems in our woods is a good idea??? Maybe they should just shut up and let Minister Barry Penner look after things and once all the animals are gone and the bush is full of garbage the majority of BC residents will say it happened because those darned indians are not following hunting regulations and are using modern technology to kill off all the wildlife???? But who is to really know because they tell us there are no COs working up there so WHO is watching over things for us????:?

[792]

Maybe all these bands that are having concerns about what is going on in the bush should give up a portion of the tax revenue that they recieve and request that those funds be used to hire CO's to police the area. It would be a win for both sides, almost all hunters except for a very small amount are concerned about concervation and the FN would have people on the ground to ensure that their concerns are being looked after.

[Steeleco]

but has not had its concerns addressed to their satisfaction.What exactly is that, one group want's one thing, yet another something else.
How is it, before the European came along there was lots of war amongst tribes, now they're all best buddies and it's the white man that's the bad guy?

[troutseeker]

I'm just sick and tired of the double standards in this country and the news media's willingness to report all kinds of bullshit with the tasty slant of the day. I'll tell you a couple of things, I'll never take a Northern posting at work and I'll never give the media anything. Actually I've stopped giving the media anything a few years ago, they can call Tim in Vancouver...

[Fisher-Dude]

but has not had its concerns addressed to their satisfaction.

What exactly is that, one group want's one thing, yet another something else.
How is it, before the European came along there was lots of war amongst tribes, now they're all best buddies and it's the white man that's the bad guy?

No doubt a wheelbarrow full of cash will address their concerns to their satisfaction. Why bother working when whitey will pay a bundle to shut them up?

[CanuckShooter]

WHAT is really sad is how these threads always bring out the prejudices in alot of posters.:icon_frow

IF this road block was erected by XYZ Fish and Game Club the vast majority of us would be glad that a group of BC Residents were concerned enough to take action to stop what they see as overhunting, unregulated hunting, trash left in the bush, and meat being left to waste etc.

[bushguy]

WHAT is really sad is how these threads always bring out the prejudices in alot of posters.:icon_frow

IF this road block was erected by XYZ Fish and Game Club the vast majority of us would be glad that a group of BC Residents were concerned enough to take action to stop what they see as overhunting, unregulated hunting, trash left in the bush, and meat being left to waste etc.

The reality is a fish and game club wouldnt illegally block an access point and if they did,they would end up in jail quick.Its an indian thing.get it?

Arent you the same guy who was whinin about the river flooding onto your property? and was lookin for a handout?

phuk people make me laugh sometimes.

dummy

ya you.

[Bear Chaser]

WHAT is really sad is how these threads always bring out the prejudices in alot of posters.:icon_frow

IF this road block was erected by XYZ Fish and Game Club the vast majority of us would be glad that a group of BC Residents were concerned enough to take action to stop what they see as overhunting, unregulated hunting, trash left in the bush, and meat being left to waste etc.

Should we blockade your Indian brethren?
In my experience the Indians in the northeast corner of the province are just as guilty if not more so than the white guys of littering, overfishing, overhunting, wasting meat, etc. They leave remnants of their camps in the bush every year just like they have done for generations.
Two years ago a buddy of mine and I took our boys fishing at Smith River Falls. That's between Liard Hotsprings & Skook's Landing for the uninformed. We were catching grayling all of which we threw back as they did not meet the size required to keep for a meal. Several Indians (I refuse to use the words Native or First Nation BTW) showed up and proceeded to haul more undersized grayling up onto the bank than I cared to count.
Overfishing? Overhunting? Littering? Look in the mirror before pointing fingers at the whiteguys.

[sako_300]

WHAT is really sad is how these threads always bring out the prejudices in alot of posters.:icon_frow

IF this road block was erected by XYZ Fish and Game Club the vast majority of us would be glad that a group of BC Residents were concerned enough to take action to stop what they see as overhunting, unregulated hunting, trash left in the bush, and meat being left to waste etc.

Ya sure, if any of that was true...

This is just another FN proxy issue. By the sounds of it they have partially succeeded.

As an above poster notes, there is no mention of GO in the area as well. Personally, I would be more concerned about "my" animal going to a USA home and being displayed. Hidden agenda, maybe...

[Steeleco]

WHAT is really sad is how these threads always bring out the prejudices in alot of posters.:icon_frow



Sorry CS, but the one thing that brings out the prejudice in the population as a whole, it the way Gov't treats different groups in different ways.
I myself have no personal dislike for any one group, but when the Gov't turns a blind eye to protesters at the expense of hunters. Or opens hospital wings for people who's feet are still wet from salt water, yet tax payers of all kinds have to wait months for medical procedures.

That pisses me off, if that makes me prejudice, SO BE IT!!!!!!!!!!

[daywalker]

I don't think it is prejudices it is just frustration we are all here together and all this seperation and special rights does is create prejudices.

[daywalker]

I meant it is not prejudices

[CanuckShooter]

The reality is a fish and game club wouldnt illegally block an access point and if they did,they would end up in jail quick.Its an indian thing.get it?

Arent you the same guy who was whinin about the river flooding onto your property? and was lookin for a handout?

phuk people make me laugh sometimes.

dummy

ya you.


This dumy wasn't looking for a handout, twit, I was looking for information from others that had faced a similar situation and perhaps had found a way around the stupid process they put to me [hiring a hydrologist to write a paper] to have something done about a log jam.

I guess your prejudices blind you to the fact that there have been numerous road blockades and protests....all conducted by non-aboriginal related groups...but you don't see that eh?

[Devilbear]

Should we blockade your Indian brethren?
In my experience the Indians in the northeast corner of the province are just as guilty if not more so than the white guys of littering, overfishing, overhunting, wasting meat, etc. They leave remnants of their camps in the bush every year just like they have done for generations.
Two years ago a buddy of mine and I took our boys fishing at Smith River Falls. That's between Liard Hotsprings & Skook's Landing for the uninformed. We were catching grayling all of which we threw back as they did not meet the size required to keep for a meal. Several Indians (I refuse to use the words Native or First Nation BTW) showed up and proceeded to haul more undersized grayling up onto the bank than I cared to count.
Overfishing? Overhunting? Littering? Look in the mirror before pointing fingers at the whiteguys.

I have repeatedly seen exactly this situation during my nearly 21 years in various aspects of forestry in BC and Alberta. It was indians who slaughtered the "Shaw Creek" herd of Elk voluntarily transplanted on V.I. by the local F&G clubs...and they then lied about it. I WAS THERE and I KNOW who did what.

The indian campsites around "Doucette Tower" near Wabasca-Demarais, AB., where I spent four months in 1993, were just a filthy pigsty, littered with plastic garbage, used TP, un-buried and other unmentionable filth. I had to clean up a lot of this disgusting mess right at my towersite....I don't live like a, well, I will just leave it there so that a "lock" will not happen.

I have tried and tried and tried to understand the indians and even have been friendly with a number of them, but, they are NOT the "guardians of the land", IME.

[CanuckShooter]

Should we blockade your Indian brethren?
In my experience the Indians in the northeast corner of the province are just as guilty if not more so than the white guys of littering, overfishing, overhunting, wasting meat, etc. They leave remnants of their camps in the bush every year just like they have done for generations.
Two years ago a buddy of mine and I took our boys fishing at Smith River Falls. That's between Liard Hotsprings & Skook's Landing for the uninformed. We were catching grayling all of which we threw back as they did not meet the size required to keep for a meal. Several Indians (I refuse to use the words Native or First Nation BTW) showed up and proceeded to haul more undersized grayling up onto the bank than I cared to count.
Overfishing? Overhunting? Littering? Look in the mirror before pointing fingers at the whiteguys.


I am not throwing stones here about who is better than who.....or which race is better than which race....

I am saying, that if their concerns are legitimate, then my hats off to them for standing up for what they believe in. I am also saying that if the same thing was done by any group, other than a group of indians, the vast majority of us would be supportive of the reasons they gave.

Perhaps we should look beyond the colour of the skin in a story before we pass judgement....not all aboriginal people fit the stereotypes protrayed by racist bigots....

[srupp]

hmmmm I have seen aborigianl displays that infruiated my HOWEVER I have seen "allegedly intoxicated non aboriginals " :mrgreen: from Langley (they said..celebrate a mighty fine moose by firing off high powered weapons and then heading to town leaving a locked vehicle in the middle of the dirt rd so no one could get by...for 20 hrs..:confused:

Also it must be pointe out "these allegations" of wasted meat, and trash are just that "allegations" or distractions or an agenda..we do not know WHo in fact did this EVN IF it was done..

There are laws severe penalties for wasting meat, and littering.. get identifying licenses , dscriptions and REPORT it..not set up a locked gate sheeeeesh something isnt right with the scenario and reaction..

steven

[sako_300]

If only a guy didn't have to work to pay taxes, a mortgage, buy food, etc. it would sure be nice to have time to drive up and say 'hi' to the protesters.

I guess you would have alot of time on your hands to do things without commitments, etc. I wonder what that is like...

[792]

I have seen lots of road blocks and demonstrations by non FN, but at all of them there was RCMP to ensure that people could still maintain access and quickly arested anybody that was causing a problem ie. spitting, hitting, threatening, etc. As was said many times we have to hold the government accountable to the wishes of the majority, I do not have the answer of how to do this but when listening to everyday folks talk about recent events it sounds like the tides are turning. At the end of the day FN is just over 4% of the population and I'm sure they have a huge vote turn out every election:-D. Maybe we need a radical MP elected in one riding to bring all these issues into the spotlight, the tax payers of this country are getting raked over the coals and taxes are rising but were giving 7$billion to FN and 50$million for refuges or 33$million to pakistan WTF. People of this country may be impartial to the issues that we find very frustrating, but nobody is impartial to more money in their pocket at the end of the day.

[troutseeker]

Bring back Gustafson Lake! Let the butt kicking begin.

[jessbennett]

Bring back Gustafson Lake! Let the butt kicking begin.


no chit....... time to start swingin back. time to set up locked gates going in and coming out of the rez. the entrance and exits to town. grocery stores, pharmacies, banks, you name it. they can get the hell out, and stay the hell out. :evil:

[gitnadoix]

Well maybe they have been asking for talks for a long time and getting the bums rush by the minister....maybe not I certainly do not know.... anyway they now have the ministers attention lets hope that will suffice and they will have a meaningfull dialogue over the fall and winter with no further civil disruptions needed...

[Mooseter]

When are our governments going to accept that there has never in history been a long term successful society where there are different rules for citizen groups.

We have FNs and PQs with different rules than the rest of us and in the end will cause the downfall of Canada as we know it.

We need to be on our prov and fed reps at every opportunity like this that happens.

It will get a lot worse and likely continue for years before it blows up unless we write phone or E-Mail every time.

What gets me is the fact that FNs hardly ever vote anyway.

The do gooders that vocally support the goals of FNs and PQs are way too influential . We need to counteract that.

[jessbennett]

Well maybe they have been asking for talks for a long time and getting the bums rush by the minister....maybe not I certainly do not know.... anyway they now have the ministers attention lets hope that will suffice and they will have a meaningfull dialogue over the fall and winter with no further civil disruptions needed...


civil disruptions? any way you look at it, its crown..... i repeat CROWN land that they are blocking LEGAL LAW ABIDING citizens from going into!!
there should be no meaningful dialogue here. they should be loaded up in a van and arrested. that gate should be torn down immediately.

i dont know about you, but to me meaningful dialogue would not include; mine mine mine, or i want i want iwant:evil:

[oldtimer]

no chit....... time to start swingin back. time to set up locked gates going in and coming out of the rez. the entrance and exits to town. grocery stores, pharmacies, banks, you name it. they can get the hell out, and stay the hell out. :evil:

Jess you left out Liquor stores, bingo halls and Casinos on Welfare wednesdays. Mike

[BlacktailStalker]

Wonder what the GOABC thoughts on this is?
How is it affecting them... or is it ?

[Fisher-Dude]

Wonder what the GOABC thoughts on this is?
How is it affecting them... or is it ?

GOABC wrote the script for them. Resident hunters are garbage pigs. All resident hunting should be on LEH. Sound familiar?

[bad arrow]

GOABC wrote the script for them. Resident hunters are garbage pigs. All resident hunting should be on LEH. Sound familiar?
I hate to admit that Fisherdude is right on here

[boonerbuck]

I was considering being dropped with my raft up the Turnagain river and coming out the Kechika this year but passed. Glad I didnt put plans in motion.

[Jelvis]

I hate to sound like a broken record but a Hunger Strike would work like a charm in any of these related situations. Brings out the media like customers at a Boxing Day Sale at Future Shop. All people take note when someone is on a hunger strike. It gives you a platform to send a message out and the people suck it up.
Why don't you try it for all the time it takes, a 4x8 piece of plywood and a tent is all yah need.
Have rotating shifts so one person is manning the post for a week, then change over to the next .. or whatever the group decides would work best.
I would try to man it with people who volunteer and have passion for the cause and appear to have a thinner body type to start off with..
I see this as a persons best chance for action to start a dialog with all involved.

[BlacktailStalker]

GOABC wrote the script for them. Resident hunters are garbage pigs. All resident hunting should be on LEH. Sound familiar?

So why are we blaming the indians?
If they want to be used as pawns, that is their downfall.

Would it not be easier to go after the corrupt GOABC ?

Cut the head off the snake, any other efforts are fruitless and a waste of time.

[Riverratz]

I'm with FD.

The guides up there don't give a ratsazz, they boated and flew all their riggin' to their camps a month ago. When we were up there, Scoop's 185 was back and forth to their satellite camp 4-6 times a day. The blockade/protest will have no effect on the guides whatsoever, in fact they're probably laughing at us right now.

LEH ??? Are they insane ???? Elk is 6 pt. or better and only open for 10 days in what is basically the pre-rut. How much more "limited" can it possibly be ???

Garbage ??? Yup, we saw tons of it,, scattered all around "their" Liard Hotsprings Resort, AND their septic-sewer was backed up because it hadn't been serviced in years, AND the restaurant was closed, AND they had no fuel, AND the so-called store had absolutely nothing in it, not even a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs. The three that were on site there didn't even know where the boat launch was. No wonder the place went titters. These are facts, not fiction, nor is it made up, .......and the 6 of us witnessed it all.

As for the launch, in the four times we were there, there was not one scrap of garbage of any kind anywhere to be seen. It was amazing really. And up river, any old campsites we happened across there was no garbage whatsoever. Even the old firepits had nothing in them but ash. Any successful hunters we talked to had the meat in their boats.

If travelling up that way, I recommend the prov. park, very nice, well kept, the folks running it are great (pro-hunter) and the hotsprings alone are worth the visit, especially post-hunt.

There are rafting outfits that cater to a minimal few of the eco-wilderness tourist types up that way. They fly their clients and gear to upper Gataga and float down to Skook's. I wonder how this will impact them, or will it ?????

[Coming_out_heavy.]

Yeah those 2 lodges there have went to hell since they have been owned by the FN. Trapper Rays is a joke. It was pretty rough when Trapper Ray had it but at least it was open. Those Indians there dont seem to get the idea of actually doing something, or providing some sort of service to get paid for something. Im pretty sure they couldnt organize a crap in an outhouse. I brought my 5 yr old daughter into that "store" and she got greeted by 2 Indians arguing with each other and cursing non stop. Solid outfit. We never spent a dime.

And yeah, the provincial campground there is top shelf.

[BCRiverBoater]

I have boated on these rivers before and I will admit I did see a tiny bit of garbage at one camp. That is one camp out of over 20 different camps on 3 separate trips. I would say that is pretty damn good. And of the one dirty camp, we took all the garbage out with us so it was left clean.

It only takes one bad apple to make us look bad when the wrong groups have an agenda. But I do not pretend to call these individuals hunters nor would I call them sportsmen. They are nothing but low level pigs who do not deserve to be out enjoying such a beautiful place.

But we all know this already so we can take the dirty shots with a grain of salt. No reason to give the anti's a reason to call down the hunters. If poor BC resident hunters go up there and make a stink or wine too much then the FN win once again. That is what they are looking for. And do not kid yourself the anti's and the PETA's are watching like hawks just praying that we screw this up in the media and give them something to run with.

[BlacktailStalker]

Well guess they better hop on and block the Tuchodi/Muskwa system too because the garbage left behind in camps from a few resident drop-off deals (yes we spoke to them, watched them get picked up and filmed it) was appaling to say the least :mad:
Needless to say we came out with more than our fair share of garbage.

There are guilty hunters all around and transporters but based on EVERY reserve I've been through in the last 30 years, cleanliness is NOT a priority for natives and a poor excuse for this.

[Jelvis]

Remember that show Gerry McQwire ..... with Tom Cruise? He had compassion and a love he tried to do good things for others.
Then in the show it came down to one phrase remember what that phrase was?
................SHOW MEEEE THE MON--NAAAAAAAAAY ..................
Jel ... everyone's saying the same thing now a days ...................everyone

[sako_300]

Remember that show Gerry McQwire ..... with Tom Cruise? He had compassion and a love he tried to do good things for others.
Then in the show it came down to one phrase remember what that phrase was?
................SHOW MEEEE THE MON--NAAAAAAAAAY ..................
Jel ... everyone's saying the same thing now a days ...................everyone

Agreed - but Gov't has certainly 'enabled' FN's to say it louder than the rest of us...


2SHALLOW - Don't think you can push your boat in up there without access to the launch; canyon below and some pretty good rapids above.

[2SHALLOW]

Agreed - but Gov't has certainly 'enabled' FN's to say it louder than the rest of us...


2SHALLOW - Don't think you can push your boat in up there without access to the launch; canyon below and some pretty good rapids above.
Yes very familiar with both cranberry rapids and the canyon like i said this is BS and hopefully it gets resolved quickly!!!

[jessbennett]

Jess you left out Liquor stores, bingo halls and Casinos on Welfare wednesdays. Mike


oh yes... sorry mike.:mrgreen: i did forget those. but that would be taking away some of the "traditional ceremonial practices", and we wouldnt want to do that now would we?:wink:

[goatdancer]

All the allegations need to be proven before the local FNs have their meeting with the gov't officials. Also the GO situation also needs to be investigated thoroughly to determine if the major goal is to restrict residents for the benefit of the GOs. If there is a serious issue as alleged by the FNs, then the gov't should take the appropriate measures to rectify the situation. If not, bring out the paddy wagons.

[Jelvis]

Bring in more aboriginal rcmp and co's like they did in Gustafson Lake plus hire more visible minority people to deal manno on manno or even more females staff it seems to calm things down to a dull roar, it's an idea, cuz we got lots of native rcmp in Kamloops that have a rural detachment on the KIB. It works better that way sometimes in these types of misunderstandings among hunters and fisherpeople.
Jel .. Talk at me.

[browningboy]

Who the f**k do these guys think they are? Going around blocking crown access to the PEOPLE of BC? They should be put in jail and thats it, FN or whoever can't be going around acting like a sheriff, people like this should be dealt with swiftly and severely to show one cannot cause this BS.

If the government had any balls they would either send in the RCMP or Military and put them in their place, make a statement that this will not be tolerated, if it just goes on it will show they are push overs thus causing many more similar situations...

The FN people on here wonder why people get so pizzed about "their" rights well shiet like this fuels the fire my friend...one day it will come to an end..one day

[Jelvis]

Bring in the Four Horsemen .. Rockin is ma business .. No one said it would be easy.
JElvi$ ... look up the Four Horsemen .. bring us in for a concert ..
Youtube download it .. watch it then we'll all rock on .. I sing lead in the band .. my bro is the drummer ..
Keep on Keepin On ..

[22savage]

They should start with cleaning up their own yards .We don't need more native police we need police that will enforce the laws that should apply to all Canadians ,regardless of race ,creed or colour .Keepers of the land what a joke .

[BlacktailStalker]

If the government had any balls they would either send in the RCMP or Military and put them in their place, make a statement that this will not be tolerated, if it just goes on it will show they are push overs thus causing many more similar situations...




The Klappan WAS the start, now look at all the roadblocks popping up all over.
They got away with it and they're still getting away with it.
As long as there are no serious retaliations, the gov isnt going to do a damn thing ! WHy would they?
Clearly the situation needs to escalate to a point where immediate action has to be taken to resolve this to eliminate any further serious situations.
It'll happen, just a matter of time and I bet it will be ugly.
At the end of the day the Gov will be to blame for it too because THEY are responsible for not ACTING and enforcing the laws and protecting the rights of the "rest of us."

[Jelvis]

22 yes your so right in the one area.
The part about enforcing the laws to all Canadians is fantastic, I think more should be like that. "Keepers of the land," is not a saying by natives that is some body else who made that one up.
JP .. 22 keep up your studies in school ..

[Jelvis]

If BC had it's own Provincial Police like Ontario's OPP and got rid of the RCMP contract which is coming up shortly, you could have a provincial cop instead of a Federal one. Natives are Federal jurisdictions.
Jel-BCPP British Columbia Provincial Police .... I'd change the PP part tho personally lol.

[Wild one]

So who has any bets on what the average Joe hunter is going to loose out on this time?

[joed4040]

I hope some good comes of this situation. Also that no one loses their hunting opportunity. I agree with some comments re: cleanliness of campsites. It goes both ways no matter what skin color. Bottom line I think is we dont have enough enforcement or CO's out in the bush. I have been up the Kechika/Turnagain for 15 or so years and never met a CO. Ive been on the Muskwa/Tuchodi numerous times and never met a CO. Our provincial govt has cut budgets and left the people remaining with a task that cant be done with the resources they have left. I hope they get the message across to the govt that we need more people keeping an eye on what goes on back in the bush. More patrols where the hunting is done. This may shock some so called hunters who are not used to CO presence during hunting season.

[Jelvis]

2 shallow Why didn't you ask the rcmp when he was on the phone why they were negotiating when if it's a illegal gate like he said? No use asking us he was on the phone with you? What did he say in full
Hey Joe .. Have you ever heard of Wilderness Watch? They got money to put up signs I see them up around region 3. Why not up there Phone them and ask.

[2SHALLOW]

2 shallow Why didn't you ask the rcmp when he was on the phone why they were negotiating when if it's a illegal gate like he said? No use asking us he was on the phone with you? What did he say in full
Hey Joe .. Have you ever heard of Wilderness Watch? They got money to put up signs I see them up around region 3. Why not up there Phone them and ask.
I'LL pm ya

[sparkymacker]

I actually think that it is the proliferation of LEH only hunts that is concentrating hunters in some spots. If the LEH was revamped or eliminated and hunters had a reasonable expectation of getting drawn every few years you would not see the pressure in those dwindling areas that still have GOS. In one way you can not blame the FN for getting upset when all of a sudden you have 50 hunters showing up where they never have in the past. Personally I have given up on putting in LEH's as it is only a money grab for the goverment in my opinion.:evil:

[sako_300]

I actually think that it is the proliferation of LEH only hunts that is concentrating hunters in some spots. If the LEH was revamped or eliminated and hunters had a reasonable expectation of getting drawn every few years you would not see the pressure in those dwindling areas that still have GOS. In one way you can not blame the FN for getting upset when all of a sudden you have 50 hunters showing up where they never have in the past. Personally I have given up on putting in LEH's as it is only a money grab for the goverment in my opinion.:evil:

Try selling that to all the guys with Dall Sheep and Roosies...

[2SHALLOW]

Just got off the phone with The ministry of Enviroment and this is the exact statement he has given me. And will give you.
The Ministry of Environment and Kaska Dena Council have agreed to meet and discuss access and hunting management in the Kechika River watershed. The gate on the Skooks Landing access road is open to the public at this time.”

Apparantley the gate is open to the public and the sign has been taken down.

Anyone who thinks this is bs can give them a call themselves.

[Steeleco]

BS or not, as was already mentioned. Do you want to go hunting with even an ounce of doubt as to weather your truck is safe, or if you can get out after the hunt because negotiations didn't go well?

I'm all for taking the gov't to task for their actions or inaction's, but at the expense of another user group, I don't think so?

[CanuckShooter]

I actually think that it is the proliferation of LEH only hunts that is concentrating hunters in some spots. If the LEH was revamped or eliminated and hunters had a reasonable expectation of getting drawn every few years you would not see the pressure in those dwindling areas that still have GOS. In one way you can not blame the FN for getting upset when all of a sudden you have 50 hunters showing up where they never have in the past. Personally I have given up on putting in LEH's as it is only a money grab for the goverment in my opinion.:evil:


I agree totally, the LEH is causing a lot of hunters to congregate in specific areas in very limited time frames...even spreading out the LEH hunt dates would help to a degree.

[Jelvis]

Canack that is pure wisdom right dare man pure. S p r e a d it out over time to disperse the hunters and then it would be more observable and manageable.
Jel .. dat dare iz Arm Chair bio .. to a T it's a good Model , to follow a good Model T.

[ufishifish2]

Oops, I posted in the wrong Native complaining thread. My mistake. Ha, Ha, that is too funny.
Comment deleted!

[Jelvis]

Johnny Crooks P R O thanks you fish, I'll try it.

[Steeleco]

The argument between Fisher-Dude and Willy442 have been deleted, as well as any quotes I could find. There obviously history between these two individuals, but this site isn't the place to voice their differences.

This thread has lasted far longer than most us Mods would have imagined.
If you guys want to argue, that's fine, but not here!!

[wetcoasthunter]

I agree with you on this Sparky. The issue is the MOE cannot manage wildlife with any degree of success. They can manage people, thier best tool is LEH for doing this. At present with some LEH and some GOS people tend to hunt the GOS areas hard and the issue of over harvest is moved around through the management units. If they were to go LEH early enough there is no reason LEH tags cannot be made available for everyone who wants to hunt. Yes you may not get drawn in your back yard but you should be able to have second and third choices in areas onyour LEH application.
The way we are headed right now is lose, lose for everyone. Blockades, legal or not will continue to be negotiated and first nations will use them just like they do in the oil patch to achieve what they want. We have set precidence through our land claims and allocation already. The Government of this country is scared shitless of them and the laywers they hire. Continuing down the path we are on now will leave no opportunity for your or my grand children to hunt, like it or not LEH will.

Now some of you older guys can speak to this better than I can, but here's my thought on it. It would seem to me, even over the last 10 years, there has been an ever increasing sense of too many hunters in to few places, and the problems with over hunting and conflicts that go along with this kind of situation. Now could this have anything to do with the MOE constantly increasing use of LEH?

To solve this Willy states that its as simple as putting EVERYTHING on LEH, which means more cost, more government and a whole lot of pissed off hunters. It would, in the end i think, cost less to do more animal inventories and get a real sense of what/where we can have GOS, instead of using LEH as some kind of silver bullet for the lack of information. I'm sure many will state that the MOE can barely count the fingers on their hand, let alone the animals, and I'm not sure they would be wrong. There will be problems and mistakes made, but nothing that can't be solved. But I do know this, you put the whole province on LEH and you'll see hunter numbers drop worse than they have in the last 20yrs. LEH is a bandaid, nothing more, and should be used as such. The problem is it is now being seen as a permanent solution.

[d6dan]

I do know this, you put the whole province on LEH and you'll see hunter numbers drop worse than they have in the last 20yrs. LEH is a bandaid, nothing more, and should be used as such. The problem is it is now being seen as a permanent solution.


You do that and there will be a bad situation happening and you know the goabc will be sitting back watching what happens..Not a good solution.:?

[Deadshot]

So, because a few deadbeat, layabouts say the game populations are dire, we should panic & go LEH.
I don't think so!
I've been in the area a few times & there is a bounty of game in that ENORMOUS area.
As FD stated, this has a GO stink to it. The organization of the resi hunter nowadays has made the backcountry smaller & we're showing up in places now, where we just aren't welcome.
Maybe a longer elk season in there would spread out some of the pressure.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The organization of the resi hunter nowadays has made the backcountry smaller & we're showing up in places now, where we just aren't welcome.



LOL! What ever gave you that feeling??!!:wink:

SSS

[22savage]

I thought leh was a management tool for when numbers of animals were low or imblanced. If we all hunted under the same rules and season's there would be plenty animals for all. Not sure how you can manage game when one group has a free for all, taking any thing they want any time they want with no fed back going to co's or game management people.

[Jelvis]

LEH was brought in after Prince George model to save the moose in Reg 7
When they closed cow calf moose in gos, they left any bull gos and it resulted in killing off the breeding bulls so that's where it came in after the swedish model .. to keep mature bulls and breeding cows at sustainable harvest and populations. Dumb bo lol . JJ
jel Bridget Bardo helped to control the hunters and when and where they would go .. kokomo
Jelly Roll

[Bear Chaser]

There was a post back in the first 30 or so that the gist was shouldn't resident hunters be doing something to counter the GOABC lobbying the government and using the Indians as their pawns to keep residents out of the bush.
There is something we can do.......... SUPPORT the RESIDENT PRIORITY FUND!!!!!!!
Is there room in YOUR budget to help support Resident Hunter's efforts to have a voice at the table?
How many of you are spending $50.00 or more on a box of shells?
What's the booze budget for your next trip?
How much are YOU going to spend on fuel, tags, new gear, etc this year to support your hunting addiction?
If any of you would answer any amount to the above questions then you can afford to donate to the RESIDENT PRIORITY FUND.
You can pay with PAYPAL. It's easy & it does make a difference.

www.residentpriority.ca (http://www.residentpriority.ca)

[2SHALLOW]

Bear Chaser is 100% on the ball!!

If we do not start to help out and just watch from the sidelines we are all going to lose. This is one way to help. I want my kids to have the same opportunity i had with hunting and fishing. DONATE it goes a long way! See ya all on the river!!! happy hunting!

[sako_300]

Bear Chaser - You should start a new thread with the details on resident priority. I was unaware of this organization and I'm sure others are in the same boat.

Interested in having a look at the website.

[branthunter]

Bear Chaser is 100% on the ball!!

If we do not start to help out and just watch from the sidelines we are all going to lose. This is one way to help. I want my kids to have the same opportunity i had with hunting and fishing. DONATE it goes a long way! See ya all on the river!!! happy hunting!

Donation sent---what about the rest of you?

[Coming_out_heavy.]

Donation sent, thanks for the link.

[IronNoggin]

As The Ladz and I are planning a rather lengthy run on the Kechika shortly now, I would be right interested in knowing if this roadblock still presents a problem up there?

Anyone? :confused:

Wondering...
Matt

[Coming_out_heavy.]

The gate is down. Havent seen it with my own eyes, but that is what I was told yesterday. 2shallow called someone in FSJ yesterday, and the guy said the gate was down.

[f350ps]

Donation sent---what about the rest of you?
Done, thanks for the heads up Bob. K

[Riverratz]

As The Ladz and I are planning a rather lengthy run on the Kechika shortly now, I would be right interested in knowing if this roadblock still presents a problem up there?

Anyone? :confused:

Wondering...
Matt

NOG,

Yesterday evening I sent a "heads up" email to a buddy down in the Koot's who does Kechika regular. Just got a reply back from him.

Firstly, he was not aware of the "problem" up that way.

Secondly, this afternoon he phoned the band office (phoned the # on their sign) and talked to some guy there.....he didn't get his name, or at least didn't tell me who it was he spoke to.

The guy in the band office stated "for now, the gate and the closure are taken down while they talk to Env. minister Penner."

Then the guy said: "I can't guarantee your personal safety while you're hunting on OUR land" and there was some mention of "no guarantees on the well being of anything left at the launch".

My buddy responded with: "well I can't guarantee your people's safety if your people try to stop me from hunting in MY Canada".

Their conversation went downhill from there, and ended shortly thereafter.
My buddy is now thinking he will fly in instead, or leave his rigging somewhere else up there and pay somebody to watch over it for him.

Read into the above as you see fit. I'm just passing this along.
RR

[bushmonkey4]

Every Boater and Hunter that uses that Launch needs to pay some guy to sit there and watch there personal shit. Kinda like the Kledo launch on the muskwa. Everybody that come down to the launch would pay the guy and he just camped there and watched over all the trucks and riggin. If Nobody uses skooks launch the indians will start putting gates up everywhere cause they know they can scare guys away from "there" land.

[2SHALLOW]

NOG,

Yesterday evening I sent a "heads up" email to a buddy down in the Koot's who does Kechika regular. Just got a reply back from him.

Firstly, he was not aware of the "problem" up that way.

Secondly, this afternoon he phoned the band office (phoned the # on their sign) and talked to some guy there.....he didn't get his name, or at least didn't tell me who it was he spoke to.

The guy in the band office stated "for now, the gate and the closure are taken down while they talk to Env. minister Penner."

Then the guy said: "I can't guarantee your personal safety while you're hunting on OUR land" and there was some mention of "no guarantees on the well being of anything left at the launch".

My buddy responded with: "well I can't guarantee your people's safety if your people try to stop me from hunting in MY Canada".

Their conversation went downhill from there, and ended shortly thereafter.
My buddy is now thinking he will fly in instead, or leave his rigging somewhere else up there and pay somebody to watch over it for him.

Read into the above as you see fit. I'm just passing this along.
RR
Why did he not contact the RCMP i believe those are threats are they not, this is BS and needs to be dealt with.....Talk about make my blood boil.

[Kilwinning]

Donation sent last year ,this year and another on the way.
Kilwinning

[burger]

Why did he not contact the RCMP i believe those are threats are they not, this is BS and needs to be dealt with.....Talk about make my blood boil.


They would chalk it up to hearsay I would think.

[IronNoggin]

Thanks for that. Appreciated!
Sounds still a little tense. Hopefully we can avoid the BS.

Cheers,
Nog


NOG,

Yesterday evening I sent a "heads up" email to a buddy down in the Koot's who does Kechika regular. Just got a reply back from him.

Firstly, he was not aware of the "problem" up that way.

Secondly, this afternoon he phoned the band office (phoned the # on their sign) and talked to some guy there.....he didn't get his name, or at least didn't tell me who it was he spoke to.

The guy in the band office stated "for now, the gate and the closure are taken down while they talk to Env. minister Penner."

Then the guy said: "I can't guarantee your personal safety while you're hunting on OUR land" and there was some mention of "no guarantees on the well being of anything left at the launch".

My buddy responded with: "well I can't guarantee your people's safety if your people try to stop me from hunting in MY Canada".

Their conversation went downhill from there, and ended shortly thereafter.
My buddy is now thinking he will fly in instead, or leave his rigging somewhere else up there and pay somebody to watch over it for him.

Read into the above as you see fit. I'm just passing this along.
RR

[ryanb]

Why did he not contact the RCMP i believe those are threats are they not, this is BS and needs to be dealt with.....Talk about make my blood boil.

Natives have been well trained by lawyers how to utter threats in a legal manner. There is no direct threat there, though there certainly is the implied threat.

[Jelvis]

The one and Only way you or anyone else will get the RCMP involved in your problem with someone is by making a formal complaint on paper signed with your signature, otherwise it's just rumors and bar talk ..
Jel .. A FORMAL COMPLAINT in writing and your signature on a formal complaint sheet .. then the wheel turns and not until then ..