is there a limit to how many clients a guide can have?

[rapptorracing]

Can a guide with tenure sell any number of open season hunts to non residents? I wonder how it works from the business side.

[Sitkaspruce]

Will depend on a few things

- size of the operation, # of guides, camps etc.
- size of the area
- what they have been given for quota for species like Sheep, Grizz, Moose, Elk etc.
- where the operation is in BC.

I am sure there is more, but off the top of my head this is what I can come up with.

The person I work for has 3 grizz/year, I believe 18 bull and 3 cow/calf moose in one zone, unlimited bulls in the other, unlimited goats, black bear and wolves.

It will be different for all GO's.

Cheers

SS

[Devilbear]

That needs to change and it WILL, there is no valid reason to allow foreign exploitation of BC's wildlife or any other resource. It is long past time when all none-Canadian angling and hunting was banned in this country.

[dana]

That needs to change and it WILL, there is no valid reason to allow foreign exploitation of BC's wildlife or any other resource. It is long past time when all none-Canadian angling and hunting was banned in this country.

The day that non-residents can't hunt here will be the same day that residents can't hunt here.

As to the topic of this thread, no, there is not a limit to how many GOS hunts an outfitter wants to book per year. Use black bear hunts as an example. Many outfitters run high numbers on spring bear, especially with Europeans who aren't so drivin by size like the Yanks are. For a lot of outfitters, spring black bear are their bread and butter. 30-40 bears a year ain't uncommon. And with the fact we are over-run with black bears in province, it ain't like they are making a dint in the population.

[Jagermeister]

Why don't we start a campaign to get the guides to enter into the draw system just like we have to? Afterall, the guides are the ones responsible for getting the resident hunters into the draw system. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander!

[Devilbear]

Why don't we start a campaign to get the guides to enter into the draw system just like we have to? Afterall, the guides are the ones responsible for getting the resident hunters into the draw system. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander!

Dana MAY be right in this and I can see the end of hunting, as we have known it coming very soon. That said, I do not see any REAL benefit to BC as the situation now is structured and the GOABC, in particular, is the enemy of resident hunters.

Jaeger, you make a good point, but, was the "quota" system not supposed to deal with the GO's access to our wildlife? NOW, they have a proposal to allow them and their foreign clients to have essentially equal access to our game.....and this is NOT going to happen in BC, as I suspect most citizens are opposed to commercialized "trophy" collecting.

If, there WERE a genuine camaraderie and cooperation between the GOs and we who OWN this province, I would be far less opposed to their operations...but, we have seen exactly the opposite in the past few years.........

[Jelvis]

We need more money to help game management in BC and guides and outfitters pay their share also.
Others should be able to share our wonderful province as long as they follow the rules provided and they are given this opportunity by our moe.
I will not sit and let others diss our moe or suggest they are ignorant or spineless.
We need to believe in BC authority and ministry and learn to respect those in high positions and the policy they make.
Jel .. please no more running down the systems set in place, if you don't like it fine, but your very very alone .. and a party pooper .. lol .. Black bear is the number one animal that non-residents want to shoot.
..the Kootenay area can support non resident hunters and have experienced outfitters and guides.
MOE sets limits to be followed and monitors this with diligence ..

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Good post Jelly!!!

[Devilbear]

Jelly, you entertaining and unique character, are you seriously telling me that we resident citizens of BC should not comment on or attempt to influence government policy????? Even for you, that is simply bizarre!

Now, very simply, Jelly, BC is supposed to be a "democracy" and that means that the PEOPLE decide what is what and the elected representatives and civil servants do as WE wish, according to the principle of "majority rule".

Now, Jelly old scout, just how much time have YOU spent in the Kootenays involved in conservation, working for government resource agencies and hunting? Maybe, you need a little more understanding of both democratic societies and wildlife management??????

Silly Jelly, velly silly! :)

[slowkey]

I was wondering if there is a way to see the number of non-resident licenses sold last year. I took a look online and couldn't really find anything. Kind of curious to see the actual number of out of province hunters.

[Jelvis]

Some where out in the wilderness an outfitter is camping. He or she is contemplating about the coming season. Watching over the region and planning ahead. Maintaining trails and counting game with a guide.
Jel .. Let the adventure live .. the western life in the wilderness .. on a horse .. camp fire stories .. romance

[bad arrow]

I was wondering if there is a way to see the number of non-resident licenses sold last year. I took a look online and couldn't really find anything. Kind of curious to see the actual number of out of province hunters.
Not sure what it was last year but a few years ago there were 7,000 foreign hunters coming to BC to hunt, as compared to 80,000 resident hunters, and 2000-3000 aboriginal hunters, and I somewhat agree with db as to who is friend and who is foe.

[Devilbear]

It is not only the number of hunters, per se, it is the comparatively higher levels of harvest of our rare species such as Stone's Sheep. I have to ask, why should Bryan Martin and his fellow Americans be able to kill so many sheep while most Canadians can never afford to even hunt for one?

I do not doubt for an instant that ANY BC government is going to give more fish and wildlife to the aboriginals and do not want to get into that here. The people who influence Campbell and James want the oil, gas, and, especially, the WATER...and will try to suck the indians into more of these phoney "nations" and "treaties" to get what they really want...and most people will go along to get along.

[slowkey]

I'm just curious about the numbers. I know they show stats for resident hunters (can't find that anymore either).

Personally I've never run across or dealt with a guide so I don't feel I could make a comment about them. I am curious though about how many non-residents are out there and how much they are harvesting

[Sitkaspruce]

Email GOABC and ask them.

They keep track as they collect a "fee" (hunters preservation fund) that is put towards lobbing for more or better regs with respect to limits and seasons etc. for the GO's.

And I may be wrong, but most, if not all GO are on quota for sheep, grizz and a couple other species.

DB, lets try to keep this topic on the straight and narrow and not go wondering off into the bitch fest that you like to rant about.

Start your own topic and quite hijacking others.......

Cheers

SS

[GoatGuy]

Email GOABC and ask them.

They keep track as they collect a "fee" (hunters preservation fund) that is put towards lobbing for more or better regs with respect to limits and seasons etc. for the GO's.

And I may be wrong, but most, if not all GO are on quota for sheep, grizz and a couple other species.

DB, lets try to keep this topic on the straight and narrow and not go wondering off into the bitch fest that you like to rant about.

Start your own topic and quite hijacking others.......

Cheers

SS

The fee is collected only from GOABC members, not all outfitters.

Usually around 5000 non-resident hunters although numbers were down the last couple of years due to the economy.

You are correct on quota for sheep, grizz and roosevelt elk. Other species depends on the region and down to the MU.

On topic, the number of clients an outfitter can take is unlimited.

[Devilbear]

SS, my comments have been on topic, correctly spelled and courteous, may I suggest that you try to behave in like manner?

You are not a "moderator" here and your personal bias and ignorance is only too obvious.

[Devilbear]

The fee is collected only from GOABC members, not all outfitters.

Usually around 5000 non-resident hunters although numbers were down the last couple of years due to the economy.

You are correct on quota for sheep, grizz and roosevelt elk. Other species depends on the region and down to the MU.

On topic, the number of clients an outfitter can take is unlimited.

That issue, is the crucial aspect of this, IMO, as the larger the number of foreign clients these characters can take into our wildlands, the greater potential negative impact on our resident opportunities. Why should we tolerate this?

[Allen50]

well if hunting is coming to a end, and were not aload to hunt, i'm guessing we all should turn in are guns then, because there will be no need to owne them,,, just a though after reading some of these posts. hunting brings in a lot of money to this gove, i don't think there going to close it to soon..

[MB_Boy]

The person I work for has 3 grizz/year, I believe 18 bull and 3 cow/calf moose in one zone, unlimited bulls in the other, unlimited goats, black bear and wolves.


That's interesting Sitka.....I would have never thought that G/O's would be able to "sell" a cow or calf moose hunt? Is there a notable difference in the price of cow vs bull?

I would have always imagined that the allocations or tags would be for those carrying head gear.

[6616]

That's interesting Sitka.....I would have never thought that G/O's would be able to "sell" a cow or calf moose hunt? Is there a notable difference in the price of cow vs bull?

I would have always imagined that the allocations or tags would be for those carrying head gear.

Under current policy g/o's are entitled to a max of 2% of any anlterless elk, moose, or deer harvests that exist in his area if he wants them. Most don't utilize this opportunity, like you say antlerless hunts are not easy to sell and make a profit on. They go pretty cheap and are often included as options in packages with more desireable species. There are a couple of outfitters in the EK that offer cow elk hunts.

[Devilbear]

Do these GOs "offer" these antlerless Elk hunts in areas where residents are restricted by LEH?????

Seems a little odd that any society would allow preferential treatment of foreigners over their own people....only in Canada, you say.....pity.

[willy442]

Just to correct the impression post that G/O's have unlimited and unaccountable opportunity to take clients as they desire on GOS animals.
In the past as now the MOE expects through the issueing of the G/O licence that harvest levels will be closely monitored and farmed, without over harvest. In saying that, there has been in the past a couple of occassions when G/O's were clearly over harvesting and they were held accountable immediately. For the quota animals a guide can also book as many clients as he wants. The issue here is if the guide has already taken his quota. The following hunters would have no chance at an animal. This would very quickly result in business loses and disiplinary actions, as the Non Resident hunting community is usually on top of these issues.

DB. Not to enter into a pissing match with you but it will be a rainy day in hell when you stop non resiudent hunting in this province. Truth be known the G/O's were at one time the best allies the resident hunter had. Now due to greed on both sides it has become a mess that is sure to result in more and more restriction to all as we move forward. What a shame.

[Devilbear]

Willy. glad to see you here, I was wondering where you had got yourself to, I will not be the person who ends non-resident hunting in BC, but, I think that it will happen and much sooner than many expect. Indications are that an increasing number of municipalities are BANNING retail gun sales within their legal purview and my hometown, as one example, has not had a gunstore operational for nearly a decade.

With a rapidly increasing population and a relatively static number of resident hunters, the majority of non-hunters in our voting population is increasing and many of these are strongly opposed to any non-res. hunting. So, when the next NDP government takes power and, sadly, this WILL happen, I expect the "green wing" to prevail and close down non-res. hunting here permanently.

If, I were simply concerned for selfish reasons, I would strongly SUPPORT the GOs who have offered "special" hunts for residents in past years, as at 64, while I am in excellent health and good shape for my age, it is a LOT easier to get an Elk or a Moose by hiring a GO to take me hunting. But, after trying a few of those hunts, it is just not fun and I cannot use the meat, so, I just keep going with my two buddies or solo.

BC will change within the coming quarter-century to a point where our generation will not recognize the place where we were born and while both you and Dana might be right, I am not totally convinced that enough BCers will support hunting for any but aboriginals for this to really make a lot of difference.

Greed. well, I see more of that in the contemporary GOs than in most residents and I doubt it will change much, again, sadly.

[dana]

DB,
You've been in this province long enough to know we go through big political changes like the swing of a pendulum. The BC liberals have indeed had their day, but that doesn't mean life will end. We survived a decade of NDP rule in the past and we will survive it again in the future. Regardless of where you land politically on certain issues, regardless of whoever wins and whoever looses, life still goes on. The simple economics of this province means we will always rely on our natural resources. While the ecofreaks think there is a way to live in utopia, being one with nature, real life still rears her ugly head. Most of the old hippies of the 60's and 70's changed their ideals when real life stepped in. They are now the largest consumer driven, natural resource suckers of any generation. The new hippies will go the same way as the old. They will rule the world one day that is true, but they will have compromised all their old ideals to get there. So I don't see an end to the hunting way of life in the near future just like I don't see the end to logging and mining and fishing. Things do change but things also stay the same. Sure we might have to fight a few battles or else we might loose hunting opportunities for certain critters, grizzlies as an example. But look at Californicated, they banned the hunting of cougars but are now overrun with deer and deer hunting still continues and will continue. The GO's of this province are indeed an ally not an enemy. The money they bring into government coffers is a good thing as it shows hunting is indeed worthy to modern life because the truth of the matter is money is what ALL GOVERNMENTS really care about.

[Devilbear]

Well, no sane person can disagree with your last comment!!!

I dunno, but, my closest friend, in his early 40s and a lifelong miner and logger who is VERY successful in the mineral exploration business, has told me several times recently, that he is convinced that the government and most of BC society just do not WANT mining here and I think he is right.

As to logging, the old days are gone and will never come back as the major end-users of our wood now will not buy it and with "paperless offices", the continual closure of newspapers, as the "Nelson Daily News" two days ago, after 109 years and on and on.....there will be some, but, the 45,000 union jobs of my youth plus all the "Gyppos" and other allied positions are gone for good.

Hunter numbers are declining all over, one cannot hunt one of my lifetime favourite valleys near Nelson due to an American-"owned" ski resort and on and on and on. I do NOT like or agree with this, but, an old phart like me can't do much about it and most don't care.

[CanuckShooter]

Under current policy g/o's are entitled to a max of 2% of any anlterless elk, moose, or deer harvests that exist in his area if he wants them. Most don't utilize this opportunity, like you say antlerless hunts are not easy to sell and make a profit on. They go pretty cheap and are often included as options in packages with more desireable species. There are a couple of outfitters in the EK that offer cow elk hunts.


How do they determine the 2% if there is a GOS on antlerless??

Do they get 2% of LEH antlerless hunts??

Can they sell the cow moose tag to a resident hunter for $100 if they want???

[dana]

While the hayday of forestry as we have known it seems to over, it actually is just a changing. IMO biofuels are going to be the Forestry of the future. The $hitwood that went to pulp will go to biofuel. The selling feature will be it is a GREEN alternative to fossil fuels as it is a renewable resource. And unlike corn, it ain't taking food crops out of the much needed food supply.

Tons of mines coming online now. The recent recession has just slowed things is all. Our hightech society needs mining to keep their gadgets going. Trillions of potential dollars can be added to government coffers by mining to supply these products. Any government that ignores that money will have a short day in office.

With the trend of the 100 mile diet and organic farming and a desire to live healthy, the general public has no problem with hunting. While PETA likes to promote a veggy lifestlye, the sales of the major food chains like MacD's prove the vast majority of people like to eat meat.

[dana]

How do they determine the 2% if there is a GOS on antlerless??

Do they get 2% of LEH antlerless hunts??

Can they sell the cow moose tag to a resident hunter for $100 if they want???

The GO's can have 2% of the LEH antlerless hunts. And like was stated before, not many actually take this opportunity. Most Yanks aren't interested in coming to BC to hunt just for meat. So, yes, an outfitter could sell these to residents at whatever price they want to.

[hunter1947]

A guide outfitter can have all the clients in a season as they want ,if they do this they have to hire more quids to cover the clients as for commendations to hold them for there stay as for enough game animals to go around..

[CanuckShooter]

The GO's can have 2% of the LEH antlerless hunts. And like was stated before, not many actually take this opportunity. Most Yanks aren't interested in coming to BC to hunt just for meat. So, yes, an outfitter could sell these to residents at whatever price they want to.

Would they have to actually guide a resident hunter that bought the cow moose [tag] hunt??

I am trying to find out if we can just buy a cow moose tag off our local guide/outfitter instead of pissing around with LEH applications...our local guide may as well collect a $200 fee for the cow moose tag rather than leave it for a resident to draw in the LEH????

[Gateholio]

With the trend of the 100 mile diet and organic farming and a desire to live healthy, the general public has no problem with hunting. While PETA likes to promote a veggy lifestlye, the sales of the major food chains like MacD's prove the vast majority of people like to eat meat.

I've certainly been seeing this and I've seen quite the upswing in people interested in hunting for organic meat. (And I've been promoting it as much as possible, too)

That's different than non resident hunting though,and I do see DB's point that the majority of the public views non resident "trophy hunting" as cutting off the head of an animal and flying home, leaving the meat to rot. And they don't like this much...

[dana]

Would they have to actually guide a resident hunter that bought the cow moose [tag] hunt??

I am trying to find out if we can just buy a cow moose tag off our local guide/outfitter instead of pissing around with LEH applications...our local guide may as well collect a $200 fee for the cow moose tag rather than leave it for a resident to draw in the LEH????


Residents can buy the tag and don't need to be accompanied by a guide. IIRC they do need to pay the royalty fee to the government though. I'm surprised more GO's don't do this as they would make a little bit of money with zero overhead cost. And we are talking not just antlerless opportunities. Quite common outfitters don't sell all their hunts that they have quota for. If they sold them to residents at a low rate it would be better than keeping them unused and making zero money on them.

[dana]

I've certainly been seeing this and I've seen quite the upswing in people interested in hunting for organic meat. (And I've been promoting it as much as possible, too)

That's different than non resident hunting though,and I do see DB's point that the majority of the public views non resident "trophy hunting" as cutting off the head of an animal and flying home, leaving the meat to rot. And they don't like this much...

This perception is not the truth though. All meat is required by law to be brought out. A lot of times the hunters take it. But if the hunter doesn't want it, it always goes to good use. Many outfitters divide it up amongst their guides at the end of the season and it helps feed their families. Other outfitters use the wild game to feed their own clients. Really cuts down on the overhead costs if all your meals on all your hunts are wild game. Some outfitters even make the client pay a processing fee. Great lunch meats for the next years hunts paid for by the past clients.

[Gateholio]

This perception is not the truth though. All meat is required by law to be brought out. A lot of times the hunters take it. But if the hunter doesn't want it, it always goes to good use. Many outfitters divide it up amongst their guides at the end of the season and it helps feed their families. Other outfitters use the wild game to feed their own clients. Really cuts down on the overhead costs if all your meals on all your hunts are wild game. Some outfitters even make the client pay a processing fee. Great lunch meats for the next years hunts paid for by the past clients.

Oh sure, I realize it's not the truth. But the average person just sees some American or European beside a dead grizzly bear or dead elk and say "what a waste" etc etc...

Logic and common sense isn't a tool of the anti hunters, but emotion and half truths are:wink:

[Jelvis]

The gutless method is used also for game shot .. faster and simpler ..
Cut four quarters off ..
This is what I heard from one guy in Cranbrook because of grizzly relating shots to meat to eat.
Gutless method .. four quarters no cut gut .. simpler, quicker,faster, lighter.

[6616]

How do they determine the 2% if there is a GOS on antlerless??

Do they get 2% of LEH antlerless hunts??

Can they sell the cow moose tag to a resident hunter for $100 if they want???

The 2% maximum on antlerless hunts is written into the allocation policy and that policy only applies to LEH hunts or species that G/Os are on quota for. Thus on GOS antlerless hunts there is no 2% maximum.

[6616]

Would they have to actually guide a resident hunter that bought the cow moose [tag] hunt??

I am trying to find out if we can just buy a cow moose tag off our local guide/outfitter instead of pissing around with LEH applications...our local guide may as well collect a $200 fee for the cow moose tag rather than leave it for a resident to draw in the LEH????

I would suspect if G/O just started selling their allocated antlerless tags to residents without guiding their quota might be in danger of being cut off, however I don't think it would be technically illegal.

[Moose Guide]

I would suspect if G/O just started selling their allocated antlerless tags to residents without guiding their quota might be in danger of being cut off, however I don't think it would be technically illegal.

It would actually show that they are using their quota.
My last group of hunters were my first group of Americans, they were working men who had saved for years to hunt moose and drove to B.C. so they could take every scrap of meat home! They were a pleasure to work for and helped in everything including packing meat!

I have never seen a resident hunter while guiding or anywhere near to where I guide!

[Moose Guide]

Willy. glad to see you here, I was wondering where you had got yourself to, I will not be the person who ends non-resident hunting in BC, but, I think that it will happen and much sooner than many expect. Indications are that an increasing number of municipalities are BANNING retail gun sales within their legal purview and my hometown, as one example, has not had a gunstore operational for nearly a decade.

With a rapidly increasing population and a relatively static number of resident hunters, the majority of non-hunters in our voting population is increasing and many of these are strongly opposed to any non-res. hunting. So, when the next NDP government takes power and, sadly, this WILL happen, I expect the "green wing" to prevail and close down non-res. hunting here permanently.

If, I were simply concerned for selfish reasons, I would strongly SUPPORT the GOs who have offered "special" hunts for residents in past years, as at 64, while I am in excellent health and good shape for my age, it is a LOT easier to get an Elk or a Moose by hiring a GO to take me hunting. But, after trying a few of those hunts, it is just not fun and I cannot use the meat, so, I just keep going with my two buddies or solo.

BC will change within the coming quarter-century to a point where our generation will not recognize the place where we were born and while both you and Dana might be right, I am not totally convinced that enough BCers will support hunting for any but aboriginals for this to really make a lot of difference.

Greed. well, I see more of that in the contemporary GOs than in most residents and I doubt it will change much, again, sadly.


Nelson doesn't have a gun shop because a loud mouth bought Norm's Sports and offended very loyal customers, Kaslo is much smaller and has a thriving gun shop!

[Devilbear]

Well, I won't comment on that, but, I knew Norm Bowcock VERY well and was among the VERY few people he would ever allow to use his backroom gun repair room. One of the senior executive members of my current club, "Mission" was an RCMP officer there and was another of the few Norm trusted. He had some guns there that just drove me nutso...and I bought a lot from him and also dealt for years with Earle Hooker of Silvertip Sports....the business there now is owned by one of my oldest friends still left in Nelson, helluva nice guy.

I do "hear what you are saying", but, I was told what I posted here by a Nelson guy who went to LVR with my little brother and also worked for Norm. I did not really know the guy who bought Mrs. B out and my few encounters with him concerning buying a couple P-64s and a Dumoulin Norm had in stock for over 20 yrs. tend to support what you have posted.

Nelson is a BITCH of a place to operate an honest independant business, one or another of my immediate family has been in business there for 117 consecutive years and my wife and I looked at doing another bookstore there a few years ago....the so-called "heritage committee" bullshit convinced me that there is NO way I would risk another dime to set up a business there.

Points like yours give me a lot of "food for thought" as that kind of hunting is what I have always been in favour of. We used to go to Howser and hunt with "Billy" Clarke and the Whitetail meat, gardens we grew and lots of fish from surrounding creeks was a big part of my parents feeding we six kids.....healthy lifestyles and what we need to preserve.

[rapptorracing]

Thanks mostly to Devilbear this thead is what I was thinking about when I decided to start this thread. I am just tired of not having the hunting opportunity I feel I deserve do to a guide driving foreign clients around from one of his cabins (how do I get cabin rights) 7 days a week shooting everything that moves while I work all week and neglect family to get out for day of rec and eventually fill the freezer.
With that off my chest, can't residents have a week or two to do our thing before the rest of the world goes out blasting. You know from their veiw point there is no next weekend and they have to take something home. And for a guide to throw away business for a sustainable next year or for quality of hunt just isn't going to happen here. Cheers

[bad arrow]

Thanks mostly to Devilbear this thead is what I was thinking about when I decided to start this thread. I am just tired of not having the hunting opportunity I feel I deserve do to a guide driving foreign clients around from one of his cabins (how do I get cabin rights) 7 days a week shooting everything that moves while I work all week and neglect family to get out for day of rec and eventually fill the freezer.
With that off my chest, can't residents have a week or two to do our thing before the rest of the world goes out blasting. You know from their veiw point there is no next weekend and they have to take something home. And for a guide to throw away business for a sustainable next year or for quality of hunt just isn't going to happen here. Cheers
An exellent post

[6616]

My last group of hunters were my first group of Americans, they were working men who had saved for years to hunt moose and drove to B.C. so they could take every scrap of meat home! They were a pleasure to work for and helped in everything including packing meat!!

And that is the intent of the 2% non-resident antlerless allocation, you're doing it the right way, the way it was intended.

Althought probably not illegal, the intent is "not" for G/O to broker tags to residents in LEH areas and I feel MOE might frown on this practice.

It's also an option for a resident to book a guided hunt for an antlerless (or any other) hunt, it's actually a commercial quota, not just a non-resident quota.

[bcyukonair]

moose guide
where do you guide ? perhaps i could bring you some residents.

[Sitkaspruce]

SS, my comments have been on topic, correctly spelled and courteous, may I suggest that you try to behave in like manner?

You are not a "moderator" here and your personal bias and ignorance is only too obvious.

My personal Bias???? You do not even know me and yet from one statement on here about keeping it on topic, you say I am bias???? Look is calling the kettle back.......I am first and for most a resident hunter and guide to have fun, make some new friends and have a little extra at Christmas for my family. I do not have a bias towards people, who are just like you and I and other hunters and fishers in this province, coming up here and spending their hard earned $$ on something we get to do for a lot less. The question was about guides and the # of people they take hunting, not about who should have what right and why we need to kick all foreign owners/hunter and who ever else piss's you off out of the province. Are residents getting the shaft in a lot of places in BC?? You bet, but to blame or target the hunters who come up here is not the place to start. We need to look higher up and start there.



That's interesting Sitka.....I would have never thought that G/O's would be able to "sell" a cow or calf moose hunt? Is there a notable difference in the price of cow vs bull?

I would have always imagined that the allocations or tags would be for those carrying head gear.

We actually sell one or two every year. Not everyone is a trophy hunter. You would be surprised at the # of "Meat Hunters" we sell hunts to. I would say 40% of the clients shoot the first moose they see and are damn happy to do it. Most are 45 and above in age and have the old saying "can't even make soup out of antlers"


Residents can buy the tag and don't need to be accompanied by a guide. IIRC they do need to pay the royalty fee to the government though. I'm surprised more GO's don't do this as they would make a little bit of money with zero overhead cost. And we are talking not just antlerless opportunities. Quite common outfitters don't sell all their hunts that they have quota for. If they sold them to residents at a low rate it would be better than keeping them unused and making zero money on them.

Dana

Unless I was told differently, and this from both the guy I work for and the local CO, that tag is for a guided hunt only, so the resident has to be accompanied by a lic guide. I have thought about the tag and taking a friend for the hunt, but it will cost a few $$ for the tag and the hunt, so we have not done it. The royalty fee is also to be covered.

Cheers

SS

[Moose Guide]

Well, I won't comment on that, but, I knew Norm Bowcock VERY well and was among the VERY few people he would ever allow to use his backroom gun repair room. One of the senior executive members of my current club, "Mission" was an RCMP officer there and was another of the few Norm trusted. He had some guns there that just drove me nutso...and I bought a lot from him and also dealt for years with Earle Hooker of Silvertip Sports....the business there now is owned by one of my oldest friends still left in Nelson, helluva nice guy.

I do "hear what you are saying", but, I was told what I posted here by a Nelson guy who went to LVR with my little brother and also worked for Norm. I did not really know the guy who bought Mrs. B out and my few encounters with him concerning buying a couple P-64s and a Dumoulin Norm had in stock for over 20 yrs. tend to support what you have posted.

Nelson is a BITCH of a place to operate an honest independant business, one or another of my immediate family has been in business there for 117 consecutive years and my wife and I looked at doing another bookstore there a few years ago....the so-called "heritage committee" bullshit convinced me that there is NO way I would risk another dime to set up a business there.

Points like yours give me a lot of "food for thought" as that kind of hunting is what I have always been in favour of. We used to go to Howser and hunt with "Billy" Clarke and the Whitetail meat, gardens we grew and lots of fish from surrounding creeks was a big part of my parents feeding we six kids.....healthy lifestyles and what we need to preserve.

Before Norm's sold, my family bought 1 or 2 rifles a year and after that we only bought 1 or 2 rifles although we would still go in to b.s. with Pat.
Unfortunately Billy Clarke was before my time, my family came here in 67!

I think my guiding is done, I have 2 boys and 2 girls I'd rather hunt with but if you could guarantee all of my clients would be as pleasant as those four boys from Oregon I would keep guiding!

[dana]

Sitka,
It is my understanding that the accompany stipulation is only for non-residents. Much like the accompany permits that residents can get for non-resident Canadians. You need to be within sight and earshot. A BC resident doesn't need that because he has a BC hunter # which proves he has taken CORE and he had a resident hunting licence and tags.

I don't really see a issue if an outfitter does this. The Crown gets the royality. There is no law that says an outfitter must only book non-residents and there is no law saying how much he must sell the hunts for. It is his choice. They issue him the quota and he can sell the hunts as he sees fit. In poor economic conditions like we are in, a lot of outfitters are dealing with cancelations. Most require a downpayment to book the hunt and if the hunter cancels, a portion of that downpayment is not given back. The outfitter can be in a bind trying to book another hunter to fill that spot, so why not discount it to a price BC residents might be willing to spend. It is a business afterall is it not?

[Moose Guide]

moose guide
where do you guide ? perhaps i could bring you some residents.

Now you've asked for my best honey hole so what will you trade? :mrgreen:

[David Heitsman]

The day that non-residents can't hunt here will be the same day that residents can't hunt here.



That's one of the most intelligent quotes I've read on here in months.

[Devilbear]

Before Norm's sold, my family bought 1 or 2 rifles a year and after that we only bought 1 or 2 rifles although we would still go in to b.s. with Pat.
Unfortunately Billy Clarke was before my time, my family came here in 67!

I think my guiding is done, I have 2 boys and 2 girls I'd rather hunt with but if you could guarantee all of my clients would be as pleasant as those four boys from Oregon I would keep guiding!

Pat is who told me what I posted in 2001, when I was last in the new location. I saw this coming in the '70s as I did the end of KFP and the permanent decline in the West Kootenay economic base. Many now think that "eco" and "adventure" tourism will equal or excel what we had circa 1960, hah, that is a fad that will fade just as "going back to the land, man" did....much the same kind of people.

The West Kootenays would be best utilized as an educational and retirement area with lots of small farms, some woodlots and serious subsistence hunting and angling....but, we will not see planning and social cooperation of that type in our lifetimes.

My last hunt in the Lardeau was in '66 and it was going fast, then. I used to solo hike over Earl Grey a lot in the late '70s and knew a lot of people at Argenta. I loved the Lardeau and knew some of the real oldtimers as a boy, it is lovely country.

[6616]

I don't really see a issue if an outfitter does this. The Crown gets the royality. There is no law that says an outfitter must only book non-residents and there is no law saying how much he must sell the hunts for. It is his choice. They issue him the quota and he can sell the hunts as he sees fit.

I don't see anything wrong with guides selling "hunts" with minimal services to residents either but I'm a little nervous about them just selling the tags with no services at all attached. It's selling them to the highest bidder which could create a market, drive the price up, and result in outfitters campaigning for more tags. It's also catering to the small number of residents who can afford to spend more. I wonder if rather than having outfitters brokering non-resident tags to residents, these tags should just go un-used and then eventually revert back into the LEH system where all residents have an equal chance to get one.

[bridger]

the issue of a guide selling a quota tag to a resident is a separate thread all its own, but if a guide sells a quota tag to a resident the resident must be accompanied by a the g/o or assistant guide. the outiftter can not sell tags to residents and let them go on their own. if the outfitter cannot use all his quota then at thte end of the current allocation period the tags go to the resident side of the equation.

[Sitkaspruce]

the issue of a guide selling a quota tag to a resident is a separate thread all its own, but if a guide sells a quota tag to a resident the resident must be accompanied by a the g/o or assistant guide. the outiftter can not sell tags to residents and let them go on their own. if the outfitter cannot use all his quota then at thte end of the current allocation period the tags go to the resident side of the equation.

That is my understanding as well.

I could guide a friend who "purchased" the tag, or another guide could guide me on a GO tag, but I cannot just go and "purchase" the tag and head out on my own.

If the case was just to get the tag and go hunt, I would never put in for a draw....:mrgreen::wink:

Cheers

SS

[Moose Guide]

the issue of a guide selling a quota tag to a resident is a separate thread all its own, but if a guide sells a quota tag to a resident the resident must be accompanied by a the g/o or assistant guide. the outiftter can not sell tags to residents and let them go on their own. if the outfitter cannot use all his quota then at thte end of the current allocation period the tags go to the resident side of the equation.

I went through this with my outfitter and the local C.O., yes he can sell me a tag and no I don't need to be guided. That was in 2007! Just a few years ago it was not possible but the rules have changed. Now how much can he get for a tag?

[Slickfork]

Seems to me that we have confused guide with outfitter. A guide works for the outfitter and guides one or two clients at a time while working for the outfitter.
The outfitter may have many clients in his camp, all hunting at once in different areas while being accompanyed by one of the outfitters guides.
I believe the the question was one concerning guide?

[GoatGuy]

Best separating non-resident hunting and guide-outfitters.

Non-residents are not the ones trying to limit resident hunters and drive resident share of the allocate harvest down in BC.

[bridger]

I went through this with my outfitter and the local C.O., yes he can sell me a tag and no I don't need to be guided. That was in 2007! Just a few years ago it was not possible but the rules have changed. Now how much can he get for a tag?


if that is actually true then god help resident hunters because no one else can or will. if a guide outfitter can get tags from the government for nothing and sell them to the highest bidder and not provide guiding services then why not give tags to walmart they would be much cheaper. quota tags issued to guide outfitters can be sold to residents but someone has to guide them.

[The Hermit]

Do these GOs "offer" these antlerless Elk hunts in areas where residents are restricted by LEH?????

Seems a little odd that any society would allow preferential treatment of foreigners over their own people....only in Canada, you say.....pity.

I think you are very welcome as a resident to purchase a hunt and tag from a guide. You will pay the same rate as any other hunter from anywhere in the world.

I admit to being somewhat conflicted but tend to agree that where any species is on LEH for residents then non-residents should be excluded from hunting that species. However, I imagine that an open season on elephants for residents of SA would likely wipe them out and yet professional hunters can still sell you a hunt! If you ever wanted to hunt in any other country you need to remain open to non-residents hunting here under solid wildlife management restrictions.

[bridger]

i fully support non resident hunting in our province. I just don't think that gudie outfitters and their non resident clients should be driving the bus.

[CanuckShooter]

I think you are very welcome as a resident to purchase a hunt and tag from a guide. You will pay the same rate as any other hunter from anywhere in the world.

I admit to being somewhat conflicted but tend to agree that where any species is on LEH for residents then non-residents should be excluded from hunting that species. However, I imagine that an open season on elephants for residents of SA would likely wipe them out and yet professional hunters can still sell you a hunt! If you ever wanted to hunt in any other country you need to remain open to non-residents hunting here under solid wildlife management restrictions.

I think the prices can vary widely from guide to guide...so I would be awful surprised if we couldn't find at least one of them willing to sell an un-subscribed tag to a resident for a reduced fee.