Toyota 4x4-new models?

[Devilbear]

I hope this is the correct forum to ask this question.

I am going to buy another 4x4 pickup and it will be a Toyota, almost certainly. I would really appreciate comments from all and sundry who have either a Tundra or Tacoma from 2005 to 2010, as I have heard some disturbing rumours concerning QC, etc.

I am NOT interested in debates re: Ford, Chevy or whatever, I have drven 4x4s for 45+ years, all makes and have my own opinions on what a geezer like me requires....Bell 212, maybe???? :)

So, gents, flyat'er!

[d6dan]

DB, go here and ask your question.. Good site..
http://www.bc4x4.com/

P.S. How was the Paddywack?..I like it :-D.

[Devilbear]

I only had one, I do not drink very much, too old.....

My grandfather, great-grandfather and two of his brothers built that building as a brewery back in the 1890s...I can recall it in operation when I was a kid in school.

The owners make GOOD beer, my grandfather who was the head brewmaster there for many years would have approved, I think.

When, I get a truck again, I'm going to drive up and buy a couple of kegs at a time for weather like this!!

[wolverine]

I have a 2010 Tacoma extended cab 4X4 with a 6ft box, towing and off road package in a 6spd. standard tranny. The truck is awesome. 1st gear is really low so when you have it in 1st and 4 low it will climb a wall. You can get out and walk beside it going down hill and you'll have to wait for it to catch up. It's got Diff lock, traction control (no spin) anti skid, the whole shebag. Also has 110v outlet in the box, built in tied downs, front tow hooks, hitch etc,etc. I love it. I might do one think different though. As much as I like the shorter wheel base with the extra cab I would probably order it next time with the quad cab. Not too much room in the extra cab. V-6 churns out plenty of power. Took off for the ranch and ran from Chilliwack up through the Coqu. and never took it out of overdrive. QC seems to be no issue ,at least so far. I've own a lot of different 4X4s over the years and this is the one of the most impressive that I have ever owned. Has done everthing I have asked it to with ease. I think you've got to go a long way to beat Toyota on their 4X4 lines. This is the first one I have ever own but it won't be the last.

[MuleyMadness]

I too am seriously considering a Tundra for my next truck in the next 6-12 months. I was in one today at the range and the guy I was with loved his. I DON'T love the fact that the quad cab only has the really short short box, no standard length but I suppose I could live with that. What kind of economy are people seeing?

[270WSMGB]

I have a 2008 Tundra double cab 4x4. It is absolutely a great truck. Half of the recalls are just the media blowing them out of proportion. There have been only a handfull of vehicles in Canada affected by the accelerator pedal sham and they have instituted a fix for it. The floor mat recall was the result of someone who did not pay attention to what they were doing. It is not an issue with the vehicle itself. There is another recall, but has nothing to do with the pickups. The vehicle rides like a cadillac and has excessive power. Very good features. Not a bunch of gadgets that no one ever uses. The only complaint I have is poor fuel economy, but when you buy a full size you need to be prepared to pay the price.

[fester]

I can't recomend the tundra enough. I have an 08 double cab with the 5.7. There is a really good site that has lots of info on them called tundrageeks.com I am fester on there as well.
I would not at this moment buy any other vehicle.

The truck is not that bad on fuel as a previous poster has stated. It has scads of power and for its size is heavy. I can do 700km on a tank with min weight in it. I have a 4500lb trailer my only complaint with the truck is that it does not have a stiff enough rear suspension on it. I fixed that for about $300 by adding firestone air bags.
as the previous poster said it has no fancy gadgets and has an easy feel to driving it.

[fester]

I too am seriously considering a Tundra for my next truck in the next 6-12 months. I was in one today at the range and the guy I was with loved his. I DON'T love the fact that the quad cab only has the really short short box, no standard length but I suppose I could live with that. What kind of economy are people seeing?

The cab on the crew max is huge and only comes in the 4.5' box. You can buy a double cab with an 8' box though.
I have the double cab with the 6.5'.

[Poguebilt]

I am looking at a new truck this year too and I WILL be getting a tacoma 4 door... I have a few toyotas in the past and after working at a gm dealership for 3 years I will continue to own toyotas...

[4 point]

I want a Tacoma as well had a old FJ years ago and it was great. Now to come up with the money. They are away cheaper if you buy them in the US. Must be US made so no duty as they do make them in Mexico.

[David]

What specifically are you going to use the truck for and in what environment?

Toyota's STILL rust out the frame - for whatever reason they've never been able to shake that. Make sure you check the recall history on a used one and make sure you get some sort of extended warranty (for the rust) on a new one. Extended warranties are usually not worth the $$$ but in my opinion in this case it is.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/07/toyota-extends-rust-warranty-on-older-tacoma-pickups-to-15-years/

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/24/toyota-extends-tundra-rust-recall-to-include-2000-03-models-tot/

If you need a locker, then definately get the TRD package. If you don't need a locker then you can get the equivalent of the TRD package much cheaper in the aftermarket.

I personally believe that all Toyota's are good but overpriced for what you get - but if you've already decided, you've already decided.

[MuleyMadness]

The cab on the crew max is huge and only comes in the 4.5' box. You can buy a double cab with an 8' box though.
I have the double cab with the 6.5'.

Yeah I know, but with a baseball team worth of kids and adults in my house, I need all the interior space I can get. What would you compare the double cab back seat to size wise? Do adults feel reasonably comfortable back there, or is too small for anything but kids and gear?

[MuleyMadness]

I want a Tacoma as well had a old FJ years ago and it was great. Now to come up with the money. They are away cheaper if you buy them in the US. Must be US made so no duty as they do make them in Mexico.

It's called NAFTA, which includes Mexico in the whole duty free thing.

Even if it wasn't duty free, duty is only 6.7%, and last time I looked the Canadian dealerships were screwing us to the tune of about 25% on pricing, so it's still a better price.

Toyota's in Mexico hey? Next thing you know they will be making taco's in India.

[Trailmaster]

We have a tacoma double cab and we love it, no issues so far, great in the snow, nice truck to drive.

[Everett]

DB I am sure you don't want to hear this since you have your mind made up but look at a ranger. Buy a lease buy back out of Alberta drop a torsion key kit some leaf springs and new shocks all availble as a kit from fat bobs garage in utah. You will have a truck that is equal to a tacoma for a hell of a lot less cash. No four door availble though.

[270WSMGB]

Yeah I know, but with a baseball team worth of kids and adults in my house, I need all the interior space I can get. What would you compare the double cab back seat to size wise? Do adults feel reasonably comfortable back there, or is too small for anything but kids and gear?


The double cab is not like a regular diesel or something like that. It is quite small. Comfortable for children but as an adult I wouldn't want to sit back there all the time.

[landphil]

I bought a 2006 v6 6spd std tacoma double cab 2 months ago - 113000km on it. It's a nice truck, lots of power, and very torquey too - it drives like a diesel (leave it in 6th on most hills - 2000 rpm @ 90 kph), thanks to varaible valve timing. I'm getting around 20 mpIg city driving, haven't taken a highway trip with it yet. Time will tell if it stands up like the old ones, but frame rust should be less of an issue as the frame is an open C-channel now. (still going to do some rustproofing) The composite box makes boat rack, etc attachment a challange, not much available commercially. I'm going to fab a rack up for mine very soon. Drives very nice, comfortable and quiet inside as well.

[Ubertuber]

I've always liked Toyota's, but I find them too small for my needs. My ex has an 05 TRD with the lockers that at first seemed like a good truck, but now not so much. The main problem she has is electrical. It has been to the shop more times than I can remember for blown fuses and shorts. I noticed it's starting to rust at the panel seams, albeit small pin holes and bubbles, but rust non the less. I would have thought they would have dealt with their rust issues by now.

It seems she ended up with one of the few lemons they made, but because she's my ex, I really don't care.:mrgreen:

[ElectricDyck]

I wish they would come out with that 4.5l diesel they have talked about. What mpg/l per 100 km are you tundra owners getting? I saw one ad that said 12 l per 100 km which I believe is about 19.5 imp mpg. Pretty good, but the diesel is said to get 23 mpg.

BTW my 19 year old toyota frame is rust free although mine wasn't made in a north american plant.

[Hunt'n Guide]

I've had a few Tacomas over the years. Currently drive an 02 doublecab. Not great on fuel but nice to drive. You can even manage to fit it into parking lots. That said I'd like more towing capacity and might go Tundra next time I upgrade.

[longwalk]

I had a 2003 Tundra with the 4.7l v8. Great truck, tough as nails. Opened a few eyes as to what it could tow and do off road. Traded up last year to a 2010 tundra with the double cab. Great truck. does not do quite as well in the tight stuff as it is substantially larger, but stiil pretty capable off road. Towed a 6000lb toyhauler up and down the Coquihalla this past week, averaged just over 13mpg Imperial. Couple hours of that were spent in low range crawling through mud and water bars. I have not had any problems with it. Probably the best non diesel option out there. Fairly decent fuel economy, gobs of power and tourque and a fantastic 6speed transmission.

[fuzzy]

i purchased a 09 toyota tacoma quad cab v6 , auto, 6 foot box trd truck just a little over a year ago. we now have about 35 000 klicks on it. Do Not fool yourself into thinking that these are like the toyota trucks of the days of old. this truck is just as long as my bosses crew cab short box dodge 3500 so you are gaining nothing as far as manuverebility.

another thing to note is that there is only one model of the trd tacoma that has the true e-locker, i beleive that it is the trd access cab short box. other than this particular model there is nothing "off-road" about these trucks. that said if i were able to purchase a new(as in fresh off the lot) "little hunting truck" it would be this particular model or a the nissan frontier nismo edition and put proper skid plates on them.

The payload for my truck including passengers is a PITIFUll 900 lbs(thats right lbs) what good is that? (you have a higher payload with the regular cab short boxes).

these "trucks" come with passenger car tires, this should also tell you something about how they are designed. i overheated the transmission idling through an old cutblock and popped the main efi fuse, this put the truck into full on limp mode. pretty lame and not a fun ride home from merrit. when i took it to the dealer i talked to the head mechanic who was great to deal with, we started bsing about wheeling and such and he started to tell me about toyotas having more issues because of toyota cheaping out and getting computers made is china instead of japan and other cost cutting quality jepoardizing moves. his wheeling rig is a solid axle swapped 89 4 runner and his "real" truck a newer model 1 ton chev and he had no plans of ever buying a newer tacoma or a tundra. he also said if we could get the toyotas that the rest of the world gets he would be on them like white on rice.

i am only 27 but have grown up offroading with samurais, toyotas, older fords( 70s and 80s)and even dads company cars:mrgreen:(he was driving the co cars) and all of these trucks felt substantially more solid on washboard roads. if you crawl under the toyotas everything is small it looks like it would be more at home in my samuria.

since my wife and i are a one vehicle family(besides my old samurai that is sitting) our tacoma is a stepping stone for us and our next truck will be something bigger,beefier and better.


just my 02 cents
fuzzy


ps in case you cant tell just because i own something doesnt mean i think its the best thing ever and you will find lots of people who love what they have and are blinded by pride of ownership.

[MuleyMadness]

i purchased a 09 toyota tacoma quad cab v6 , auto, 6 foot box trd truck just a little over a year ago. we now have about 35 000 klicks on it. Do Not fool yourself into thinking that these are like the toyota trucks of the days of old. this truck is just as long as my bosses crew cab short box dodge 3500 so you are gaining nothing as far as manuverebility.

another thing to note is that there is only one model of the trd tacoma that has the true e-locker, i beleive that it is the trd access cab short box. other than this particular model there is nothing "off-road" about these trucks. that said if i were able to purchase a new(as in fresh off the lot) "little hunting truck" it would be this particular model or a the nissan frontier nismo edition and put proper skid plates on them.

The payload for my truck including passengers is a PITIFUll 900 lbs(thats right lbs) what good is that? (you have a higher payload with the regular cab short boxes).

these "trucks" come with passenger car tires, this should also tell you something about how they are designed. i overheated the transmission idling through an old cutblock and popped the main efi fuse, this put the truck into full on limp mode. pretty lame and not a fun ride home from merrit. when i took it to the dealer i talked to the head mechanic who was great to deal with, we started bsing about wheeling and such and he started to tell me about toyotas having more issues because of toyota cheaping out and getting computers made is china instead of japan and other cost cutting quality jepoardizing moves. his wheeling rig is a solid axle swapped 89 4 runner and his "real" truck a newer model 1 ton chev and he had no plans of ever buying a newer tacoma or a tundra. he also said if we could get the toyotas that the rest of the world gets he would be on them like white on rice.

i am only 27 but have grown up offroading with samurais, toyotas, older fords( 70s and 80s)and even dads company cars:mrgreen:(he was driving the co cars) and all of these trucks felt substantially more solid on washboard roads. if you crawl under the toyotas everything is small it looks like it would be more at home in my samuria.

since my wife and i are a one vehicle family(besides my old samurai that is sitting) our tacoma is a stepping stone for us and our next truck will be something bigger,beefier and better.


just my 02 cents
fuzzy


ps in case you cant tell just because i own something doesnt mean i think its the best thing ever and you will find lots of people who love what they have and are blinded by pride of ownership.


Is he talking abour the european and asian models? Models from the US or are the models from the US the same as we are seeing here?

[ElectricDyck]

he also said if we could get the toyotas that the rest of the world gets he would be on them like white on rice.

You can you just have to wait 15 years and deal with driving on the right. lol :wink:

[Devilbear]

This is the sort of info. that I was interested in finding out, I am not very mechanical and while I can rig any type of outdoor gear and have, my skills at "fixing" vehicles are pretty sad. I totally agree with your last comment and I never consider something the "best" simply because I happen to own it; but, I always buy the "best" that I can find, relative to my finances and what reliable info. I can find on a given item.

Your age does not deter me from respecting your opinion, I had been supervising large crews on forest fires, etc. for some 4-5 years by the time I hit 27 and had several remote wilderness L/Os to my credit. I respect a man, regardless of age, who tells it like he sees it, just as I despise a sneaky little wannabe of the type we see too much of on many forums.

So, I thank everyone for their input and what I am considering is buying a Tacoma 4x4 base model, with the 4 cyl, and manual trans. and then having North Shore Offroad beef it up a little for me. I kinda think that I would have them install lockers and all that and just buy the bare truck from Toyota.

What do you think of this model, anyone?

[ElectricDyck]

Is he talking abour the european and asian models? Models from the US or are the models from the US the same as we are seeing here?

I would guess when it comes to late models we are getting the same as the US. They save all the good 4x4 options and the diesel engines for Japan and the Europe. Some say it's because of our emmission laws, others say there is no market here for them. I don't really understand it?

Toyota is weird in what they market to what countries. For example we got the diesel 60 series landcruisers and the US only got gas, the US got the gas 80 series landcruisers and we got nothing while japan and europe got the diesels with more offroad options.

I have also heard from guys that own multiple toyotas that the fit and finish on the newer ones from north american plants is not like it used to be.


So, I thank everyone for their input and what I am considering is buying a Tacoma 4x4 base model, with the 4 cyl, and manual trans. and then having North Shore Offroad beef it up a little for me. I kinda think that I would have them install lockers and all that and just buy the bare truck from Toyota.

A toyota e-locker complete third member can be bought used from a wrecker or on a forum for between 5 to 800 dollars, it should just plug into the stock wiring harness, buy the switch from toyota and you are good to go. An aftermarket selectable locker would start at about $800 and require more labour to install.

[David]

So, I thank everyone for their input and what I am considering is buying a Tacoma 4x4 base model, with the 4 cyl, and manual trans. and then having North Shore Offroad beef it up a little for me. I kinda think that I would have them install lockers and all that and just buy the bare truck from Toyota.

What do you think of this model, anyone?

Like Fuzzy I've built a few rigs - but you still haven't said what you're going to use this truck for (i.e. what kind of driving) - pretty hard to help if we don't know that.

How much time on pavement? Highway vs City?
Logging roads? Things that used to be roads? things that were never roads in the first place?
Mud? Snow?

Generally speaking GOOD tires and a locker will get most people to places they have no business going. Add in lower gearing (I prefer t-case gearing) and you do it with a bit more control.

Without knowing the year you're looking at, a 4cyl Taco is fine so long as you don't go with larger tires (and I'd argue that with IFS there is no need to go bigger than 33"). If you go up to 33's you may want to re-gear the differentials, which can add cost.

[kishman]

I own a 2010 Tacome TRD off road model, 2 door access cab with a manual 6 speed, and so far I have pretty much all good things to say. My last Truck was an F-350 diesel so it was quite the change, but in the woods, the 'yoda's much more nimble and able to go up much steeper grades with the help of the rear diff locker. But, you'll probably want to level the truck, and change out the stock front mud flaps(they drag even going through shallow water bars). Negatives: Mileage, right now I'm getting around 430km per 80litre tank, but the motor only has about 4500km on it so those numbers should improve to a degree(I hope). And, there is the matter of price, this Truck isn't cheap. Shoot me a PM if you have any questions.:)

[ElectricDyck]

As far as the ifs goes, I was talking with a guy yesterday who has done most of the harder trails in Moab with his ifs fj cruiser and goes back every year. From talking to him I would say it's all about driving style, his coined phrase was he goes 0 to 5 in a hurry. lol

[Devilbear]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I want this truck so that my male Rottweiler and I can go fishing, hunting, further ecological field studies and maybe some prospecting. I will be alone, except for him and he will ride in either the access cab or in his dog carrier in the box, under a canopy. I will take it into rough country, but, I have been doing this for many years and know what to do and what to avoid.

I will NOT be "building" anything, I will buy it and have the few mods installed I consider worthwhile and that is all I require. What I really want here is not advice on what 4x4 to buy or how to build a 4x4, it is reports from 2005-2010 Toyota users as to reliability, etc.

I "may" sometimes take my wife places in it and due to her spinal issues, I HAVE to get a truck with the highest level of reliablity possible. I do not need a "4x4 one ton HD" and if I do, my buddy usually has 4-5 newish ones and always offers me the use of them. So, that's it, a truck for very bad roads which must get my "cherub" home safely.....or, I suspect it would be "no more guns, you have too many now!", if ya know what I mean.

[martyonthewater]

I have had a us imported 06 tacoma trd quad cab short box with the auto tranny for about 3 months now. I love the truck but there are a few things I've noticed that I would change. Mine has the 17 inch wheels which are nice but whoa nelly are tires ever expensive in any tread pattern. The towing capacity is pretty good at 6500 lbs but campers are virtually impossible to find for the short box and with a GVW of 5450lb and a net of 4041lb, theres only just over 1000 lb of loading avail. if you in fact do find something that fits. Mine does not have the push button lockers which will definately be missed in deep mud or snow but it has proven itself fairly capable for standard fare 4x4 terrain.

[Kirby]

Curious what mileage people are getting with their Tacomas? I had one with the 3.4 and have heard the new 4L is still a heavy fuel drinker?

Kirby

[fuzzy]

with the 4.0 i just got 500 kms to 68.733 litres, this is a mix of in town and hiway driving, it gets driven from pitt meadows to the foot of the alex fraser bridge 5 days a week so that gives you an idea of what kind of driving it sees.

fuzzy

[longrifle]

Hey folks,

I just took delivery of my 2010 Tundra double cab trd 4x4 with a 4.6L late in June...I must admit I'm a dodge guy, and my last truck was/is (as it now going to be my hunting only rig) a 1994 regular cab 4x4. With this being said, I did alot of research/test drives and kept coming up with the same vehicle, a toyota tundra, so that is what I went with.

I'm very happy with my choice and the more I drive the rig, the happier I am with it. I do wonder how well it would stand up to all of the logging road abuse that I put my old truck through, but the same can be said for any of the new trucks out there.

Pros: ultra quiet in the cab, buttery smooth transmission, rides good (a little stiff because of the 'offroad' shocks), but doesn't bounce as much as the other manufacturers rigs, lots of room in the cab, powerful, comfortable and overall feels very solid...

Cons: engine/tranny combo is a little twitchy in the hills (shifts lots), but that may be because I'm used to the old dodge (which dropped 10 kmph before shifting!), and the body panelling seems a bit 'delicate' (again the same thing as all other trucks currently produced)...

The unit seems to be fairly economical for a 4x4, when I first picked it up I drove around Edmonton for a day, then out to Buck Lake for two days and filled up in Edson. I was varying speeds on the highway from 90 kph to 140 kph (gotta break 'er in right:mrgreen:), put on 140 km in the city and it averaged 22.8 mpg. Should note that with the 6 speed tranny it revs at 1500 rpm at 100 km/h...On my way through I filled up in Kamloops and again it average 22.4 mpg, going over the coke it got 19.9 mpg (topped 'er off in Hope because I was curious how it faired), so not bad. Since then I been driving it in the city only, filled 'er up yesterday, worked out to 21.8 mpg, I was impressed with that. Hopefully it will get a little better as it 'breaks in' but I'm satisfied for now!

'rifle

[barry1974w]

Bear in mind that Toyota is "supposed" to be bringing the good deisel to North America later this year. You might want to hold off a bit and see.

[Poguebilt]

Bear in mind that Toyota is "supposed" to be bringing the good deisel to North America later this year. You might want to hold off a bit and see.

any idea for what model(s)?

[Squamch]

any idea for what model(s)?

Probably the same ones heve decided not to put it in after all for the last several years of telling us 'next year, next year.'
as to why we get shitty vehicles compared to Europe and asia...yuppies. Yuppies want an explorer sport track not a 4 door turbo diesel solid axle ranger like the rest of the world. Yuppies are the prime market segment, and they don't want capability, they want luxury.

[Devilbear]

Yup, Toyota used to have a doublecab, solid axled, built like a tank 4x4 called the "Hilux" and my neighbours, in the towing business, had one parked here for awhile. That, with a good diesel, is EXACTLY what I really need and want, except I do not want RHD, but, will they import these...NO, just the types that "yuppies" and "yuppy puppies" and "quad jockeys" want.

WHY anyone would WANT half the crap they load these Tacomas with in a bush truck is beyond me, but, I guess lots of the kind of "hunters" who own $50K trucks, 12K quads and $100.00 backpacks do.

Wish I could get a 1985 4x4 with the injected 22R engine and xtracab, and a FJ-40 as well, those were HUNTING trucks!

[Pre '64]

It sounds like you need the Tacoma extended cab for what you will be doing. I have a 2006 V6 with the auto tranny. I use it for hunting and my two retrievers love riding in the back seat. I have 70000 kms on it and nothing has failed on it yet. I've had Tacomas for 25 yrs and this one is bigger, rides better, smoother, will go faster than the old ones. the brakes will have to be done before this fall.

The 5 speed auto is a great transmission and gets better mileage than the standard. I got 27.5 mpg on a camping trip on two different tanks. In the winter mileage drops to 22 back and forth to work.

go to tundrasolutions.com and you will find all the info you need on the Tacoma and the Tundra from real owners.

[fuzzy]

devil bear you hit the nail on the head.
you wish you could get the 85 with the solid axle or a an fj-40 well why dont you get one? or as an option get a 90s toy pick up and get a good shop to do a solid axle swap. there are good landcruisers out there as well you just have to look for them. also with a little bit of time spent in seeking one out plus the money spent to modify the vehicle to your needs you will probably end up spending less money, have a simpler vehicle and be happier with the end result in the long run.


fuzzy

[The Hermit]

I have nothing against Toyotas and believe them to be as good as their awesome reputations. I put a lot of winter miles on a company Toyota Tundra 4x4 in Calgary a few years ago... 2005 model. Nice but underpowered in the four banger.

I think you would be remiss in not taking a good long hard look at the Nissan Frontier in a 2005 or newer 4x4 version. More hp and towing capacity, similar excellent service and warranty. And thousands of dollars less! I own a 2003.

[ytlogger]

devil bear you hit the nail on the head.
you wish you could get the 85 with the solid axle or a an fj-40 well why dont you get one? or as an option get a 90s toy pick up and get a good shop to do a solid axle swap. there are good landcruisers out there as well you just have to look for them. also with a little bit of time spent in seeking one out plus the money spent to modify the vehicle to your needs you will probably end up spending less money, have a simpler vehicle and be happier with the end result in the long run.


fuzzy

There is a lot to be said for this route. I have 3 friends with late model Tundras and they are all happy with them. Great for towing boats and utility towing ...BUT they all say the same thing. It is a highway truck first and foremost.

[Devilbear]

I am not interested in a customized vehicle due to the uses I have for this truck, I expect to see a large area of Canada in it and do not wish to be stuck in East Bumf**k, NWT while I find a mechanic who understands custom-built Toys and can find the parts needed. It took Downtown Toyota, a dealership with a superb service division about a week to get just new headlights and a little rear corner light for my '93 Corolla.....what would it be like getting some rare custom parts....and ALL machines do break down!

If, you enjoy mechanics and are good at it, great, I do not and am not skilled at mechanical tasks and never will be. So, I will buy what I think will meet my actual needs and it is the whole QC issue on the latest Tacomas that I am concerned with, as I do not want the larger Tundra and am not fond of Nissans.

Each to his own, but, while two retrievers can ride in a quad cab, two Rottweilers.....ah, no, they are too fond of play fighting and driving "dad" bonkers! ONE of these 100+ lb. mighty guys in a truck is enough!

[ytlogger]

Hmmm.... Ive been everywhere you can drive to in the NWT and lots of places that you can't, and I can't place East Bumf**k.