Broadhead selection

[Slinky Pickle]

I'm new to bow hunting and am now looking for a broadhead to take either deer or moose with. Although the mechanicals seem pretty cool, I think I would like to go with a standard fixed blade for now.

I was looking at these little devils. Do you guys have any thoughts about them... or about any other tips?

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/archery/broadheads-points/thunderhead-broadheads/prod96698.html

[Coyote]

Thunderheads are good broadheads. You might want to think about cut-on-contact heads for moose depending on what kind of bow you are shooting.

'yote

[Bow Walker]

Broadheads are a "personal preference" kind of thing. Personally, I've had great success with Slick Tricks. I like the 4 blades and I like the bone splitting capabilities of the trocar tip.

Another good one is the Muzzy lineup of heads. Either the MX-3's or the MX-4's....both have the trocar tips on them.

Also there is nothing wrong with the Thunderheads. They've taken their fair share of game, that's for sure.

[Slinky Pickle]

Thunderheads are good broadheads. You might want to think about cut-on-contact heads for moose depending on what kind of bow you are shooting.

'yote


Well, now I'm looking at these guys. So much to learn !!! :???:

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/archery/broadheads-points/buckmaster-broadhead/prod257995.html

[NaStY]

I prefer solid broad heads. As apposed to the ones that open on contact. That way I know where my poi is every time....
JMHO..

[huntwriter]

I was looking at these little devils. Do you guys have any thoughts about them... or about any other tips?

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/archery/broadheads-points/thunderhead-broadheads/prod96698.html

"These little devils" are some of the best broadheads on the market and have been for the past 20 years. I used Thunderheads on and off for many years and always went back to them.

Having said that, there are many good brands available. You can't go wrong with Muzzy, Magnus II, Magnus Stinger, Magnus Snuffer, Steelforce, G5 Montec and the list could go on. There are also many high quality expandable broadheads available, most offered by the same reputable companies that manufacture quality fixed heads.

The choice is yours, go with what feels right for you.

[huntwriter]

Well, now I'm looking at these guys. So much to learn !!! :???:

http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storefront/archery/broadheads-points/buckmaster-broadhead/prod257995.html

It's a Buckmaster broadhead. Buckmasters commissions from other manufacturers and often at cheaper production cost. You know what that could mean quality wise.:wink:

[Bowzone_Mikey]

I have had some samples from ABC (American Broadhead company) and they have been hit or miss ...... given the 2 choices I would go with the NAP product .... they have been around for a Looooooooong time ... there is a reason for that ....

That said ... I personally would look at other heads as well like Rocky Mountains by Barrie Archery, Montecs by G5 outdoors, Slick Tricks, and the Muzzy Products (MX3 and MX 4), Rocket Ultimate Steels by Trophy Ridge are my personal Fixed head Flavour of the year.

I realize its tough to try heads out as it could be quite an investment to buy a package of 3 heads for 40 some bucks of 5 differant types only to have 12 heads sitting on the shelf collecting dust when you find what you like (especailly to the wife ;) ) If you look online there are some archery sites that have a Broad head exchange program going on so you can try differany heads out on practice butts with little outward cost (shipping plus a buck or 2 type of thing)

Each head will fly slightly differant depending upon your particular bow set-up ... Go with a good head thats been around for a while and make sure you tune all your equipment properly and it will fly true and hopefully make short blood trails

[Bow Walker]

I've had samples of the American broadhead sent to me as well and my 'evaluation' is as follows...remember, it boils down to just my opinion.

The heads are easy to assemble, they are sharp as hell, being of a short and compact design they fly nicely, and they are easily re-sharpened.

My one draw back was that they don't have any sort of bone-breaking tip - just the blades. They also are prone to the blades separating at the very tip should you encounter bone in the animal. It's a weak point in their construction.

The broadheads with a short/compact style of construction and/or the ones that utilize an open-style of blade (as opposed to solid blades) tend to fly better out of today's faster bows due to a lot less wind-plane along the surface area of the blades.

If you're in love with mechanicals have a hard look at the ones that deploy the blades rearward - not the ones that have the blades "jack-knifing" open.

Good luck in your search.

[huntwriter]

My one draw back was that they don't have any sort of bone-breaking tip - just the blades.

Many good quality broadheads don't feature a "bone breaking tip", such as the Magnus II, Snuffers, Stinger or NAP's Hellrazor, Razorcaps and Razorback. All these broadheads have no problem cutting through any bone that's in the way. Ted Nugent and other hunters killed elephants, rhinos and cape buffalo with cut to the tip broadheads like the Magnus II, Stinger and so on, talk about bone penetrating power.

Several test studies have shown that cut to the tip broadheads have two advantages over chisel point broadheads. Cut to the tip heads penetrate faster and deeper, not that this is much of an issue with high speed bows and at close range. But still it's a measurable advantage over chisel points. Cut to the tip broadheads cause less brain geristered trauma, meaning game will not run as fast and far as when they're hit by a chisel point head. A chisel point does not cut but rather punches a hole initially before the cutting blades follow.

In my own tests I found the above to be true. Often deer would just jump up a bit and walk a few steps than stand still when hit with a cut to the tip broadhead then collapse within sight. On the other hand I had deer explode in the air and run for more than hundred yards when hit with the sledgehammer action of a chisel point. In addition, as a verification of sort for this theory, I read two reports of archers that have been shot at with broadhead tipped arrows. One of the unfortunate archers was hit with a Muzzy (chisel point) and he described the pain as "It felt like been hit with a hammer". The other unfortunate guy was hit with a cut to the tip head and said that he didn't feel anything other than a little sting. When I was shot at my a bowhunter with a cut to the tip broadhead I felt the same sensation, a little sting, and only realized how bad it was when my shirt turned rather fast blood read.

[jessbennett]

Many good quality broadheads don't feature a "bone breaking tip", such as the Magnus II, Snuffers, Stinger or NAP's Hellrazor, Razorcaps and Razorback. All these broadheads have no problem cutting through any bone that's in the way. Ted Nugent and other hunters killed elephants, rhinos and cape buffalo with cut to the tip broadheads like the Magnus II, Stinger and so on, talk about bone penetrating power.

Several test studies have shown that cut to the tip broadheads have two advantages over chisel point broadheads. Cut to the tip heads penetrate faster and deeper, not that this is much of an issue with high speed bows and at close range. But still it's a measurable advantage over chisel points. Cut to the tip broadheads cause less brain geristered trauma, meaning game will not run as fast and far as when they're hit by a chisel point head. A chisel point does not cut but rather punches a hole initially before the cutting blades follow.



In my own tests I found the above to be true. Often deer would just jump up a bit and walk a few steps than stand still when hit with a cut to the tip broadhead then collapse within sight. On the other hand I had deer explode in the air and run for more than hundred yards when hit with the sledgehammer action of a chisel point. In addition, as a verification of sort for this theory, I read two reports of archers that have been shot at with broadhead tipped arrows. One of the unfortunate archers was hit with a Muzzy (chisel point) and he described the pain as "It felt like been hit with a hammer". The other unfortunate guy was hit with a cut to the tip head and said that he didn't feel anything other than a little sting. When I was shot at my a bowhunter with a cut to the tip broadhead I felt the same sensation, a little sting, and only realized how bad it was when my shirt turned rather fast blood read.
what tests did YOU do to verify these conditions? what did you perform these tests on? u say you yourself was shot by a broadhead tipped arrow? where were you hit? were you hit in bone? do you think that the hunter that said it felt like he was hit by a hammer would have the same expanation if he was shot with a cut to the point head? in order for this to be an accurate description the hunter would have to have been shot by both types of heads. and vice versa for the hunter who was shot with the cut to the point. do you think the description would be different if he was shot with the chisel point? and well thats just silly.lol. so this conclusion really doesnt hold merrit

i myself have shot game with a chisel point tip on several occasions one being a broadside shot busting a rib on entry and exiting shoulder on the opposite side. the animal took 3 steps, stood, bled out and fell. with the other it was a quartering away deer. entered between the last two ribs, exited in front of opposite shoulder and the animal ran for approx 150 yards before piling up. point is, every animal you hit is going to react differently. again brain registered trauma will be different with EVERY animal that is shot.

there has been several tests out there that show quality mechanicals that will penetrate deeper that a cut to the point fixed blade head. if your curious about mechanicals take a look at the grim reaper, or the rage. these mechanicals are the cats ass and i would put them up against any fixed blade without hesitation. another to look at are the rocket wolverine and the rocket steelhead. this two are tough tough and extremely sharp.

a fixed head that should be mentioned again is the rocket ultimate steel. these are AMAZINGLY sharp and super tough. montecs are dam fine products as well. any quality broadhead chisel tip or not will get the job done if the hunter does his/her part and puts it in the boiler room.

[Bow Walker]

If I searched the 'net' and looked hard enough I could come up with "tests" that have been "measured" that will indicate any conclusion that I might possibly want to put forward.

I base my recommendations and observations on 'real world results' - those being the results of my hunting experiences, like jessbennett, and most other hunters.

I am in the process (this season) of testing a 2-blade head. It is a Magnus Stinger, 100 grain head as pictured below.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/100-stinger2blade.jpg

[Ambush]

I have quite a few "real world experiences" with broadheads, and I've watched, first hand, quite a few more. So??

There is no perfect broadhead, only prefered broadheads.

I know what I like, but in this day of interenet access, there's no need to try them all yourself. Go to Bow-Site or Acrhery-Talk. com and you can read forever.
Shooting one or two animals with a certain head does not make for a good test. It may build confidence, but that's all.

[Bow Walker]

Yup. What he said.

[houndogger]

I only use cut on contact broadheads. Use what ever you think works best for you thou.

[huntwriter]

what tests did you do to verify these conditions?

Shooting deer, hundreds of them on managed cull hunts over the span of 20 years. The scientific tests were done in a controlled environment on pig carcasses and filmed with special cameras.

what did you perform these tests on? On real live deer, not oil drums, cinder blocks and other objects that have no basis in reality other than advertising purpose.

u say you yourself was shot by a broadhead tipped arrow? where were you hit? were you hit in bone? I was hit in the neck just above the shoulder. No bone just flesh wound.

do you think that the hunter that said it felt like he was hit by a hammer would have the same expanation if he was shot with a cut to the point head? It's possible I haven't asked him and I don't think he would have volunteered to have another broadhead shot through him just to find out if the pain sensation is different.


in order for this to be an accurate description the hunter would have to have been shot by both types of heads. and vice versa for the hunter who was shot with the cut to the point. do you think the description would be different if he was shot with the chisel point?No not really because it's about knowing how nerves react to different stimuli and how the brain registers pain. What to you think hurts more (damages more nerves) cutting yourself with a blunt object or with a razor sharp knife? If you ever have cut yourself with a razor blade you will know that it doesn't hurt but the bleeding is hard to stop. Conversely if you cut yourself with a blunt knife it will hurt considerably but bleed very little. The reason for that is because a blunt object registers more trauma. The brains reaction to that is to shut blood flow down to that area and release chemicals to aid blood clotting. On the other hand if the brain does not register trauma, or very little, it will take to measures to stop the bleeding.

Since you do not believe no matter what I say I suggest you ask a doctor how it works.:wink: We learned about that stuff in high school. Very simple really.

But as I said in my initial post, with high speed bows and at the distances we kill game with bows the difference between a cut to the tip and a chisel point makes not much difference.

[Ron.C]

I've used Muzzy 100gr 3 blade broadheads for 9 seasons. They shoot and group well for me. I have taken 18 animals with them. "Blacktail deer, WT deer, and elk" I shoot a 57lb bow at 27" draw, so not crazy speed/power. All but two of these animals were pass throughs. So lots of ribs cut including the elk. These broadheads stand up very well, and do the job as long as you put the arrow in the right place. And even on occasion when a shot hits leg bone, there was penetration into the vitals and into the off side. I'm sure there are lots of other brands out there that perform just as well, but Muzzy's are the only broadheads I've had any measureable experience with. Personally, I see no reason to try anything else as I have full confidence in these broadheads.

[huntwriter]

I base my recommendations and observations on 'real world results' - those being the results of my hunting experiences, like jessbennett, and most other hunters.

So do I. I may have a slight advantage in my experiences simply because I had the opportunity to try many different broadheads given to me to field test and I had the opportunity to take part in deer management cull hunts. Over the years I have killed hundreds of deer on such hunts. Noting that I am particularly proud of but it had to be done by someone and it has given me a lot of shooting experience with various equipment. In addition to that I write meticulously notes for many years about by experiences. Reading these notes back over years one can see certain trends develop, be that equipment use or any other aspect of hunting, like deer movement patterns and such. For me hunting has always been as much about hunting as it has been about studying every tiny aspect of it in great detail.

[Bow Walker]

99% of the 'studies' done on broadhead performance have been, and are, what's called anecdotal.



an-ec-do-tal adj. consisting of narratives of individual cases rather than statistics and/or scientific evidence: anecdotal evidence.


Even the high-speed footage of broadhead performance done by various companies and the TV show "World's Greatest Warriors" doesn't constitute scientific evidence.

I'm not debunking anyones experiences here, just pointing out a fact....and the fact remains that broadhead selection is a purely personal thing.

As I said in my first post...What works well for one hunter may not perform for another. A person has to try various heads to find the one that does it for him/her.:wink:

[hardnocks]

I like broadheads that i can change blades. I have had the same muzzys for 6 years . I just change blades every year . But for me what i like best are magness 4blade stingers . For my set up and shooting stile they work best .....I don`t think their is a bad broadhead...maybe allen , or the ones you buy at wally world.

[huntwriter]

I'm not debunking anyones experiences here, just pointing out a fact....and the fact remains that broadhead selection is a purely personal thing.

As I said in my first post...What works well for one hunter may not perform for another. A person has to try various heads to find the one that does it for him/her.:wink:

I absolutely agree with you on that, and if you look through any of my posts you will see that I never ever advised to use one particular brand over others.

[jessbennett]

So do I. I may have a slight advantage in my experiences simply because I had the opportunity to try many different broadheads given to me to field test and I had the opportunity to take part in deer management cull hunts. Over the years I have killed hundreds of deer on such hunts. Noting that I am particularly proud of but it had to be done by someone and it has given me a lot of shooting experience with various equipment. In addition to that I write meticulously notes for many years about by experiences. Reading these notes back over years one can see certain trends develop, be that equipment use or any other aspect of hunting, like deer movement patterns and such. For me hunting has always been as much about hunting as it has been about studying every tiny aspect of it in great detail.
u think your the only one that gets broadheads sent to try out?? hell anyone can get them sent to them all they gotta do is ask for a sample. hell i have drawers full of them...... so dont feel TO special and no advantage there for you over us "non professionals"....:roll:

on your deer "culls" how many particular broadheads did you pack with you and test on any given day??? how many deer per day? how many broadheads did you test before you came to your "conclusions"? you wrote dteailed reports or reviews on these heads with every kill? for who were these reports recorded? what brand broadheads were tested?
hey what what done with a the meat from thise culls? was it donated to charity? just curious ive always wondered.......

[jessbennett]

Shooting deer, hundreds of them on managed cull hunts over the span of 20 years. The scientific tests were done in a controlled environment on pig carcasses and filmed with special cameras.
On real live deer, not oil drums, cinder blocks and other objects that have no basis in reality other than advertising purpose.
I was hit in the neck just above the shoulder. No bone just flesh wound.
It's possible I haven't asked him and I don't think he would have volunteered to have another broadhead shot through him just to find out if the pain sensation is different.

No not really because it's about knowing how nerves react to different stimuli and how the brain registers pain. What to you think hurts more (damages more nerves) cutting yourself with a blunt object or with a razor sharp knife? If you ever have cut yourself with a razor blade you will know that it doesn't hurt but the bleeding is hard to stop. Conversely if you cut yourself with a blunt knife it will hurt considerably but bleed very little. The reason for that is because a blunt object registers more trauma. The brains reaction to that is to shut blood flow down to that area and release chemicals to aid blood clotting. On the other hand if the brain does not register trauma, or very little, it will take to measures to stop the bleeding.

Since you do not believe no matter what I say I suggest you ask a doctor how it works.:wink: We learned about that stuff in high school. Very simple really.

But as I said in my initial post, with high speed bows and at the distances we kill game with bows the difference between a cut to the tip and a chisel point makes not much difference.

anyways.... exactly what tests were performed on pig carcasses and filmed? id really like to see these tests. were they online anywhere? what were these tests trying to accomplish? have these tests been performed recently with new modern equipment?anyway you can post the film here for us all?

do youthink that if you had of been hit in bone with a broadhead that it would still feel like a sting instead of a hammer? whether it was a chisel or cut to the tip?

and i still think that in order to have an accurate test, on chisel points and cut to the point, it would have to be on the same animal, shot in the same area with the two different types of broadheads. even still, "brain registered trauma" would be different EVERY single time. also "registered pain" is different with every animal, and every person, everything! everything has a different tolerance and reaction to pain. . . . you take 3 people and smack all three of them on the hand with the same force with the same hammer, i guarantee to you that all three of those people will react differently to the pain.

A chisel point broadhead is FAR from being a blunt object. most of the chisel points on todays b-heads are razor sharp themselves. And with most of them, the sharpened edges on the chisels line up with the blades of the heads themselves. technically the are like the leading edges of the blades. i have several kinds that are that way.

[killman]

My broadheads are better than your broadheads!

[jessbennett]

My broadheads are better than your broadheads!


nuh uh............:arrow::-D

:mrgreen:

[jessbennett]

it all comes down to personal preference and what IM confident in..... and im sure most can agree on that......

[killman]

it all comes down to personal preference and what IM confident in..... and I'm sure most can agree on that......

Just like the great bullet debate. All will kill when placed in the right spot. The difference is some will perform a little better when you don't make the perfect shoot.

[Slinky Pickle]

I'm almost sorry I started this thread now. I keep expecting to see someone upload a picture of their favourite appendage laying beside a tape measure.

I did get some good info though.... in and amongst the rest of the stuff. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Bow Walker]

Just don't start a thread asking about crossbows!

[jessbennett]

Just don't start a thread asking about crossbows!


:mrgreen:...........

[jessbennett]

I'm almost sorry I started this thread now. I keep expecting to see someone upload a picture of their favourite appendage laying beside a tape measure.

I did get some good info though.... in and amongst the rest of the stuff. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


didnt mean to hijack or fill the thread with rambling, but i was just curious to tests and so on....... to me if someone claims endless testing and being a super professional, id like to see the results and the proof thats all. .


all i can say is pick something that you like and what makes you confident and that is what matters. it basically comes down to 6 on one hand, half dozen in the other. good luck and have fun with the "archery obsession".

[huntwriter]

... and being a super professional...

Show me where I claimed that I am a super professional.

[jessbennett]

Show me where I claimed that I am a super professional.

as to not hijack this thred i will start a new one for you.......

[Bow Walker]

:mrgreen: Now that the 'trouble makers' have departed - let's get back to talking broadheads. :wink:

I'll try to sum it up and put it in perspective (if I can). :confused:

The thing to do is to go out and buy some that "take your fancy". Buy a couple different brands of mechanicals and also a couple different brands of fixed or replaceable-blade broadheads.

Get each type/style to spin true on your shafts and then go out and shoot some targets. See which ones fly best for your setup and which ones that you like.

Take your choice(s) out hunting and give them the field trials that are essential to finally narrowing your choice(s).

Good luck and don't forget to report on the results. :-D

[BimmerBob]

OK, now can we talk about crossbows and bolts for them too? :mrgreen:

[killman]

OK, now can we talk about crossbows and bolts for them too? :mrgreen:


Crossbows are not even real Bow! They should be classed as a rifle!:wink:

[NaStY]

Crossbows are not even real Bow! They should be classed as a rifle!:wink:

And made restricted...:mrgreen:

[BimmerBob]

Crossbows are not even real Bow! They should be classed as a rifle!:wink:

Bowsnob! :mrgreen::wink:

[jessbennett]

Bowsnob! :mrgreen::wink:

hahahahahaha.. bowsnob??:mrgreen:

[Caribou_lou]

Just like the great bullet debate. All will kill when placed in the right spot. The difference is some will perform a little better when you don't make the perfect shoot.

Well put!

I've shot a few animals with my bow. I use a few different broadheads myself. They all died in a short distance. The better placed shots killed faster(double lung) than the ones that weren't placed as well (one lung, liver). I've used Muzzy, Montec and Spitfire. They all kill moose! I just picked up some Slick Tricks the other day, so I look forward to trying them on a hunt this fall. I shoot 100 grains also.

I think what is a major factor in how an animal reacts is whether it is rutting or not.

But thats just my 2 cents on broadheads.

I am not a pro by any means! But I can hunt with the best of them!

[jessbennett]

Well put!

I've shot a few animals with my bow. I use a few different broadheads myself. They all died in a short distance. The better placed shots killed faster(double lung) than the ones that weren't placed as well (one lung, liver). I've used Muzzy, Montec and Spitfire. They all kill moose! I just picked up some Slick Tricks the other day, so I look forward to trying them on a hunt this fall. I shoot 100 grains also.

I think what is a major factor in how an animal reacts is whether it is rutting or not.

But thats just my 2 cents on broadheads.

I am not a pro by any means! But I can hunt with the best of them!

very well put........ :mrgreen: