Horse Packin' with seatbelts - no diamonds req'd

[GoatGuy]

With all the horse talk on here I'm wondering whose tried using the seatbelt and strap program for packing.

Know two guys who have tried it.

One said the seatbelt wouldn't stay tight, the other uses it all the time, says it takes a couple minutes per horse and he's on the trail - it's an easy do it yourself program. Sling the boxes then seatbelt from box to box across the bottom and two straps across the top from box to box or off the top pack. Bolt three hooks per box (2 on top, one on the bottom). Suck it down and yer off to the races.

Pretty much the same as the not-a-knot system.

http://www.outfitterssupply.com/russon/not-a-knot.asp

Anybody tried this?

[frenchbar]

Never tryed it before ...reg rope n cinch system works fine ..biggest thing is weights in boxes must be equal..or ya got problems .pack a scale with you .

[GoatGuy]

Never tryed it before ...reg rope n cinch system works fine ..biggest thing is weights in boxes must be equal..or ya got problems .

Do it the same way, but the one guy swears by it. Learned about it 15 years ago. Packed up camp the same time as another group of guys and said the other guys were 'out of sight' before they were loaded up.

Said it literally takes only a minute once the boxes are weighed. No fuss, no knots. :confused:

[frenchbar]

Interesting system never seen it before..sounds pretty simple.

[GoatGuy]

Interesting system never seen it before..sounds pretty simple.

The time saving would be nice as well as 3 quick buckles it's instead of passing frozen rope when the wind's howling and it's -20 in October.

Not that it's ever happened, but if you need to tighten or straighten out the load it would only take seconds.

[frenchbar]

The time saving would be nice as well as 3 quick buckles it's instead of passing frozen rope when the wind's howling and it's -20 in October.

Not that it's ever happened, but if you need to tighten or straighten out the load it would only take seconds..yup there would be definatly times when it would be a blessing alright .

[Hotshoe]

Traditional horsemen would rather ride sheep before they used seat belts to cinch down their loads! Doesn't matter how fast you get your string packed, it's the getting there that matters. Like was mentioned previous, if your boxes are evenly packed by weight and weight distribution then you should be able to run your string loose and have no problems. If the thought of letting your pack horses loose scares the devil out of you, then you need to learn to pack better. If you can pack properly then I guess seat belts or duct tape would work.....but.....I would stick with a good diamond rope myself.

[frenchbar]

Traditional horsemen would rather ride sheep before they used seat belts to cinch down their loads! Doesn't matter how fast you get your string packed, it's the getting there that matters. Like was mentioned previous, if your boxes are evenly packed by weight and weight distribution then you should be able to run your string loose and have no problems. If the thought of letting your pack horses loose scares the devil out of you, then you need to learn to pack better. If you can pack properly then I guess seat belts or duct tape would work.....but.....I would stick with a good diamond rope myself.

haha ..duct tape and bunjees:-D

[Alpine Addict]

Im sure it would be handy sometimes but why try and re-invent the wheel! The diamonds been around long enough to prove itself. I would be a little embarrassed myself riding past an old traditional cowboy with a seatbelt instead of a diamond.

That being said, I've never seen this "seatbelt" so I can't say much

[GoatGuy]

Im sure it would be handy sometimes but why try and re-invent the wheel! The diamonds been around long enough to prove itself. I would be a little embarrassed myself riding past an old traditional cowboy with a seatbelt instead of a diamond.

That being said, I've never seen this "seatbelt" so I can't say much

Neither have I, that's why the question.

[yukon john]

Traditional horsemen would rather ride sheep before they used seat belts to cinch down their loads! Doesn't matter how fast you get your string packed, it's the getting there that matters. Like was mentioned previous, if your boxes are evenly packed by weight and weight distribution then you should be able to run your string loose and have no problems. If the thought of letting your pack horses loose scares the devil out of you, then you need to learn to pack better. If you can pack properly then I guess seat belts or duct tape would work.....but.....I would stick with a good diamond rope myself.


that says it all right there!

[Gateholio]

I've done a very small amount of horse packing, and I've never seen the system you show, so take this for what it's worth.:-D

Every day people come up with different and better ways of doing the same thing, often utilizing materials that were not available in the past.

Panniers are now made of durable plastic instead of wood, pack saddles are made of nylon instead of hand carved wood slabs. Moving in a different direction always upsets traditionalists, but if the idea works, most of the time it catches on eventually.

Look at all the fuss that traditionalists made when a rifle was first put together using stainless steel and fiberglass.:mrgreen:

Only way to see if it works for you is to try one out.....;)

[saddlemaker]

With a lash rope you can tie the hitch that will be best suited for what you are packing. If you are on the backside of nowhere and have 10 feet of seatbelting you will have a hard time getting that unexpected load lashed down well.
I have seen both ..I will stick with the lash rope and cinch. Practice it , and you can throw a diamond in a few of minutes.

[GoatGuy]

Traditional horsemen would rather ride sheep before they used seat belts to cinch down their loads! Doesn't matter how fast you get your string packed, it's the getting there that matters. Like was mentioned previous, if your boxes are evenly packed by weight and weight distribution then you should be able to run your string loose and have no problems. If the thought of letting your pack horses loose scares the devil out of you, then you need to learn to pack better. If you can pack properly then I guess seat belts or duct tape would work.....but.....I would stick with a good diamond rope myself.

Asking if anybody's tried it and how it works.

Not too interested in learning how 'traditional horsemen' ride sheep - you can keep that to yourself and your 'traditional' friends. The rest of it isn't relevant to the system (balancing boxes and trailing horses).

Guess there's no plastic, fiberglass, synthetic material or new world ways of making your hunting or packing gear - leather is all cured with tannin right? No chemicals allowed? All the metal is shaped with a hammer and heat? Hope you've never used any of those plastic boxes.

The trail starts at the house? Or is the big truck and trailer part of the tradition? Or is the traditional way only about how you throw your diamond and what kind of rope you use?

Luddite's are always some of my favorite people. Take the technology when you want it and apply the 'traditional' approach when you don't.

Traditionally man walked on all fours - try it for a while, say a couple years, and fill the rest of us in on how much you like it.

[GoatGuy]

With a lash rope you can tie the hitch that will be best suited for what you are packing. If you are on the backside of nowhere and have 10 feet of seatbelting you will have a hard time getting that unexpected load lashed down well.
I have seen both ..I will stick with the lash rope and cinch. Practice it , and you can throw a diamond in a few of minutes.

Thanks, was looking for someone who had tried it or seen it.

It's new to me - never seen it in the bush and want to see what kind of experiences people have had with it.

[GoatGuy]

that says it all right there!

Coming from the guy with a couple of plastic boxes in his avatar. That's traditional all right!

That isn't a yellow nylon rope in the pic is it?

You need to get some of them homemade wood boxes you see scattered across the horse trails in the north and the EK to be a 'traditional horseman.'

[GoatGuy]

I've done a very small amount of horse packing, and I've never seen the system you show, so take this for what it's worth.:-D

Every day people come up with different and better ways of doing the same thing, often utilizing materials that were not available in the past.

Panniers are now made of durable plastic instead of wood, pack saddles are made of nylon instead of hand carved wood slabs. Moving in a different direction always upsets traditionalists, but if the idea works, most of the time it catches on eventually.

Look at all the fuss that traditionalists made when a rifle was first put together using stainless steel and fiberglass.:mrgreen:

Only way to see if it works for you is to try one out.....;)

You're right, rather talk to others before I go drilling holes in boxes only to find out it doesn't work as advertised. :mrgreen:


Think when people label themselves a traditionalist it's a nice way of saying "I'm a decadent Luddite."

[willy442]

The time saving would be nice as well as 3 quick buckles it's instead of passing frozen rope when the wind's howling and it's -20 in October.

Not that it's ever happened, but if you need to tighten or straighten out the load it would only take seconds.

Trust the new generation. First screw with the heritage of back country hunting and now wanting to reinvent the wheel when it comes to packing horses.
The oldtimers used the various methods of packing for different reasons. Diamonds were tied on top of packs in case a horese went down in a bog. The rope tail was easy to access. In the south they tie off on the side as they don't have the same issues. Some people pack in boxes, some use basket packs. All methods use rope and cinches.

Trust a parcel flyer from the Okanagan to try and pack with seat belts. LOL

[budismyhorse]

Do it the same way, but the one guy swears by it. Learned about it 15 years ago. Packed up camp the same time as another group of guys and said the other guys were 'out of sight' before they were loaded up.

Said it literally takes only a minute once the boxes are weighed. No fuss, no knots. :confused:


whats the hurry??? ;)

if you know how to throw diamonds......that story has to be an exaggeration in the worst way.

either that or the group he is referring two are rookies.

that being said, I do know of a crew around here that use "seatbelts" exclusively.........seems to work for them, but I'm not going down that road personally.

snow+cold= frozen seatbelt no?? Then outcomes the knife. Then what?? Better be carrying a Diamond rope.

[GoatGuy]

Trust the new generation. First screw with the heritage of back country hunting and now wanting to reinvent the wheel when it comes to packing horses.
The oldtimers used the various methods of packing for different reasons. Diamonds were tied on top of packs in case a horese went down in a bog. The rope tail was easy to access. In the south they tie off on the side as they don't have the same issues. Some people pack in boxes, some use basket packs. All methods use rope and cinches.

Trust a parcel flyer from the Okanagan to try and pack with seat belts. LOL

Not my system, only asking the question on how and if it works.

You haven't really helped with the answer, most of your info has been useless, but that isn't surprising.

Rest assured, if I ever want to know how to guide short sheep or 6 yr old you'll be the first one I ask. Won't even need to start a new thread as I'm pretty sure you're in a league of your own on this one.

[GoatGuy]

whats the hurry??? ;)

if you know how to throw diamonds......that story has to be an exaggeration in the worst way.

either that or the group he is referring two are rookies.

He's been packing for 30+ years anyways. Farrier for a living - pretty keen guy.

Checked out the boxes the other day. The seatbelt is really another cinch that runs from box to box.

Guess I'll have to go on a trip with him to see how it works.

[budismyhorse]

He's been packing for 30+ years anyways. Farrier for a living - pretty keen guy.

Checked out the boxes the other day. The seatbelt is really another cinch that runs from box to box.

Guess I'll have to go on a trip with him to see how it works.


All I'm saying is that if you put two groups next to each other, One is your buddy and the other is a group with Diamond ropes........they both should be on their way in "roughly" the same amount of time.

if the Diamond Rope group is way behind its because they don't know what they are haven't packed much before.

[yukon john]

Coming from the guy with a couple of plastic boxes in his avatar. That's traditional all right!

That isn't a yellow nylon rope in the pic is it?

You need to get some of them homemade wood boxes you see scattered across the horse trails in the north and the EK to be a 'traditional horseman.'

hard to beat plastic boxes, and nylon ropes, even tried some neoprene cinches last year, I was sceptical but they worked out alright. I not saying my way is the best way but it works for me, if seatbelts work for someone more power to them. By the way I saddled and packed a horse with 240lbs in under 2 and a half minutes, won me some taps at FNAWS for it to.
I would still rather take a few minutes extra in camp then repack on the trail. Ive learned a good system from some of the best horseman in the buisness, havent repacked one of my packs in 2 years hard to change when you've had sucess like that

[Kody94]

LMAO. Just another trad bow versus cross bow thread. :D

[proguide66]

I'd be a dumbass to say the 'seat belt' method isnt as good or WAS better due to never trying it myself...but again , Ive never had a problem with the ol diamond!!...as well , the diamond works great with antlers..especially different structured moose brow tines...as far as being in a real 'hurry' to pack , dont really remember having to be in a rush before...but you never know!!...
One thing about throwing a diamond with someone that is REAL experienced is how it flows real smooth and quick as well never seem to have to re pack en route for 10 hrs either...now packing with in experienced dudes sucks ass and for sure eats up time..
Id be willing to give the belts a try...but not willing to buy the set up with out trying first!!:wink:...thanks for the thread though!!:-D

[Fisher-Dude]

I wear my seatbelt on the main FSR, but then take it off when I idle around the spur roads.

Horses are for people who like to spend time with casts on their arms.

[horshur]

it takes about a minute to throw a diamond.

[325]

I find horse guys tend to be pretty traditional. Diamond hitches and blue jeans.

[Fisher-Dude]

I find horse guys tend to be pretty traditional. Diamond hitches and blue jeans.

Don't forget the goat hunting in cowboy boots.

[waistdeep]

Somehow those Traditional boys still get some quality game.... :)

[horshur]

Goat.....Joe Backs book has a little story in it as to why some of the tried and true cavemen ways should never be forgoten. Good book worth the little it costs.
http://www.amazon.ca/Horses-Hitches-Rocky-Trails-Back/dp/1555661416

[willy442]

Not my system, only asking the question on how and if it works.

You haven't really helped with the answer, most of your info has been useless, but that isn't surprising.

Rest assured, if I ever want to know how to guide short sheep or 6 yr old you'll be the first one I ask. Won't even need to start a new thread as I'm pretty sure you're in a league of your own on this one.

Your inexperience on the subject shows, by asking the question and seriously conflicts with your outstanding sheep hunting abilities. Which you have demonstrated time and again on this site. Could we please have some photo's of your accomplishments to back up your abilities?

[boxhitch]

Well, I have never been known to be a sheeple, so I'll stick my neck out here too.

I think the seat belt idea is a great innovation, for certain situations.
Lots of times I run without a top pack for various reasons and have used basket ropes only to hold the boxes on, plastic ones at that. Its not essential using a diamond for loaded boxes only. Lots of extra shite to get tangled when shite happens
A quick rope or strap to hold them down is best, and the seat belts are a version of that.
I have seen some webbing material that is certainly more slick than some other, maybe this stuff would tend to slip until it has aged some. Just like poly rope, it needs some whiskers to hold.
And I could see maybe having a galling problem with the bare webbing on the belly, but easy to address with a canvas sleeve or similar.

Wait til you hear of someone trying 1 1/2 " ratchet cargo straps, with a full wrap around, adjustable system. On welded aluminum, bear-proof boxes

[steepNdeep]

Horses are for pussies... that's just redneck road hunting, Jesse. :biggrin: ;)

[GoatGuy]

See post 28

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=51945&page=3

this is what I'm talking about. Like I said never tried it so don't knoW how well it works - why I started the thread. Do it the same way as the rest of you.

Never been one to do something because "that's the way it's always been done.". It's a pretty silly answer really.

[GoatGuy]

Goat.....Joe Backs book has a little story in it as to why some of the tried and true cavemen ways should never be forgoten. Good book worth the little it costs.
http://www.amazon.ca/Horses-Hitches-Rocky-Trails-Back/dp/1555661416


Go it but thanks for the suggestion. Always keen on reading.

[GoatGuy]

Your inexperience on the subject shows, by asking the question and seriously conflicts with your outstanding sheep hunting abilities. Which you have demonstrated time and again on this site. Could we please have some photo's of your accomplishments to back up your abilities?

Have you tried it or are you simply dissmissing the concept because that isn't the way you learned it?

Asking because run into a couple guys who have used it. Seeing if and what other peoples experience is with the concept. If you haven't tried it or seen it or know somebody who has I would suggest your 'experience' with this is the same as mine.

Not really one to post photos of kills on the net or 'accomplishments' as you call them - sorry.

[GoatGuy]

Horses are for pussies... that's just redneck road hunting, Jesse. :biggrin: ;)

I know but I love pussies and having beer and steak for dinner.

[Ghost Stalker]

always a few guy who know it all and can't learn something new. oooo time save.. oooo cold weather freeze. ooo oo oo.. i would like to see a pic if any one has one. always open to new ideas and a time saver. hell if you have doubts tuck a diamond rope under the seat belt for back-up.. what do they weigh? 3lbs! and you can always use a lil extra rope. sounds like it might work well in some situations and i'd love to see it. good post Goat Guy.

[Burger64]

Posted as per Goatguys requesthttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b371/MMayan/Hunting/P9290417-1.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b371/MMayan/Hunting/P9290415-1.jpgMy hunting patner has spent 30 years packin into the back country and for him Acklands heavy duty bungees work well.No more frozen rope

[stoneguide]

Ive seen many different ways used. The seat belt set up works to a point. Many rivot a seat belt to the bottom edge of the boxes to work as a lash cinch. Works great but have come across guys sitting on the trail trying to figure out how to fix the plastic pack box with a hole in the bottom because a log caught their seat belt and ripped a chunk out.
They do hold top packs well but need to have a lot of length of belting as many times your load size changes. Throw in a 55" moose or something as such and you need extra length. Have also seen a seat belt lash cinch and the orange tarp straps for the to pack. Again works great until a stick catches a tarp strap and snaps it or shoots it like a bullet.
As for the comment on the freezing rope. If anyone figures seat belts will be easier to repack if needed, go get one dip it in water, stick it in the freezer and see how good the buckle works. It to will freeze with moisture and get dirt and crap in it.

They will all work, and all have draw backs. Like people said many guys packing enjoy doing it traditionaly.

Time savings? I cant see it. You get a experienced packer and the diamond is on in an easy minute.

Just my 2 cents.

SG

[steepNdeep]

I know but I love pussies and having beer and steak for dinner.

:lol: GOOD answer!

[GoatGuy]

Ive seen many different ways used. The seat belt set up works to a point. Many rivot a seat belt to the bottom edge of the boxes to work as a lash cinch. Works great but have come across guys sitting on the trail trying to figure out how to fix the plastic pack box with a hole in the bottom because a log caught their seat belt and ripped a chunk out.
They do hold top packs well but need to have a lot of length of belting as many times your load size changes. Throw in a 55" moose or something as such and you need extra length. Have also seen a seat belt lash cinch and the orange tarp straps for the to pack. Again works great until a stick catches a tarp strap and snaps it or shoots it like a bullet.
As for the comment on the freezing rope. If anyone figures seat belts will be easier to repack if needed, go get one dip it in water, stick it in the freezer and see how good the buckle works. It to will freeze with moisture and get dirt and crap in it.

They will all work, and all have draw backs. Like people said many guys packing enjoy doing it traditionaly.

Time savings? I cant see it. You get a experienced packer and the diamond is on in an easy minute.

Just my 2 cents.

SG

Great thanks.

[GoatGuy]

Posted as per Goatguys requesthttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b371/MMayan/Hunting/P9290417-1.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b371/MMayan/Hunting/P9290415-1.jpgMy hunting patner has spent 30 years packin into the back country and for him Acklands heavy duty bungees work well.No more frozen rope

Got any closeups?

[Gilmore]

Seatbelts...bungees....somewhere Joe Back is doing cartwheels in a grave.:wink:

[calvin L]

Goat Guy I have only used rope We have ahd to repack a couple of time mainly it was the 20lbs propaine tank as a top pack . . As to the seat belt idea I would like to see it done also before I drilled holes in the box . They just don't hold camp water very good with holes .It may be hard to picket the horse with a seat belt also. I know hobbles but when they figure them out they can still leave you in the dust

calvin L

[Kody94]

Seatbelts...bungees....somewhere Joe Back is doing cartwheels in a grave.:wink:

Anyone worried about Joe Back's take on all this, should hunt with a longbow. ;)

[budismyhorse]

always a few guy who know it all and can't learn something new. oooo time save.. oooo cold weather freeze. ooo oo oo.. i would like to see a pic if any one has one. always open to new ideas and a time saver. hell if you have doubts tuck a diamond rope under the seat belt for back-up.. what do they weigh? 3lbs! and you can always use a lil extra rope. sounds like it might work well in some situations and i'd love to see it. good post Goat Guy.

last time I checked this was a discussion forum, not a love-in........

he asked a question and people are just talking about the potential pros and cons........relax hombre.

[budismyhorse]

Anyone worried about Joe Back's take on all this, should hunt with a longbow. ;)

He'd about come unglued....

I'd pull a quote out of his fine book, but I think it is still in an old wooden packbox out back...

[Gilmore]

Anyone worried about Joe Back's take on all this, should hunt with a longbow. ;)


...or cap and ball....are you calling me close minded and old fashioned?? I have a wife who echos your thoughts!!:-D:-D

[Kody94]

LOL. No...not picking on you...just the general tone of this thread.

I do get a real chuckle out of how selective people are with their logic or just the way they look at things. Its OK to be "traditional" when it comes to one's opinion about packing with horses, but when other folks are "traditional" about weapon choice, or hunting methods, people jump all over them like they are the hunter's worst enemy.

[horshur]

LOL. No...not picking on you...just the general tone of this thread.

I do get a real chuckle out of how selective people are with their logic or just the way they look at things. Its OK to be "traditional" when it comes to one's opinion about packing with horses, but when other folks are "traditional" about weapon choice, or hunting methods, people jump all over them like they are the hunter's worst enemy.


it has nothin to do with being traditional and everything to do with marketing to a lower denominator.

those pics of horses with the seat belts and the emblem on the panniers is not necessarily an endorsement but rather a concession.

there is a better way to go about it......that isn't it!

[bridger]

anyone who has done any serious traveling in the backcountry with a packstring knows why diamonds work in all situations. adjusting loads, different top packs, adjusting your boxes for weight etc. you can use seatbelts, bungee cords or duct tape or possibly some other methods. I have had a pack string for 40 years and doubt if more than a handful of resident hunters can match that experience. Over the years i have seen about every way to tie gear on a horse you can think of, but when the chips are down nothing will beat a good tight diamond. i use plastic pack boxes and new types of pack saddles, new type of ropes etc because they work. I use single or double diamond because they work. the only people i have seen use seat belts or bungee's are guys that don't stray to far from the road or can't figure out how to tie a diamond. If you are serious back country horseman do your self a favor and learn to tie a tight diamond and when you get to the end of your rope tie a knot in it and hang on.

[saddlemaker]

anyone who has done any serious traveling in the backcountry with a packstring knows why diamonds work in all situations. adjusting loads, different top packs, adjusting your boxes for weight etc. you can use seatbelts, bungee cords or duct tape or possibly some other methods. I have had a pack string for 40 years and doubt if more than a handful of resident hunters can match that experience. Over the years i have seen about every way to tie gear on a horse you can think of, but when the chips are down nothing will beat a good tight diamond. i use plastic pack boxes and new types of pack saddles, new type of ropes etc because they work. I use single or double diamond because they work. the only people i have seen use seat belts or bungee's are guys that don't stray to far from the road or can't figure out how to tie a diamond. If you are serious back country horseman do your self a favor and learn to tie a tight diamond and when you get to the end of your rope tie a knot in it and hang on.
I 'll ride with you!!

[Hotshoe]

anyone who has done any serious traveling in the backcountry with a packstring knows why diamonds work in all situations. adjusting loads, different top packs, adjusting your boxes for weight etc. you can use seatbelts, bungee cords or duct tape or possibly some other methods. I have had a pack string for 40 years and doubt if more than a handful of resident hunters can match that experience. Over the years i have seen about every way to tie gear on a horse you can think of, but when the chips are down nothing will beat a good tight diamond. i use plastic pack boxes and new types of pack saddles, new type of ropes etc because they work. I use single or double diamond because they work. the only people i have seen use seat belts or bungee's are guys that don't stray to far from the road or can't figure out how to tie a diamond. If you are serious back country horseman do your self a favor and learn to tie a tight diamond and when you get to the end of your rope tie a knot in it and hang on.
Diddo! Perhaps in my original response I shouldn't have said "traditional horsemen" but rather "Experienced horsemen". Didn't mean to offend anyone's book smarts.

[budismyhorse]

anyone who has done any serious traveling in the backcountry with a packstring knows why diamonds work in all situations. adjusting loads, different top packs, adjusting your boxes for weight etc. you can use seatbelts, bungee cords or duct tape or possibly some other methods. I have had a pack string for 40 years and doubt if more than a handful of resident hunters can match that experience. Over the years i have seen about every way to tie gear on a horse you can think of, but when the chips are down nothing will beat a good tight diamond. i use plastic pack boxes and new types of pack saddles, new type of ropes etc because they work. I use single or double diamond because they work. the only people i have seen use seat belts or bungee's are guys that don't stray to far from the road or can't figure out how to tie a diamond. If you are serious back country horseman do your self a favor and learn to tie a tight diamond and when you get to the end of your rope tie a knot in it and hang on.

There is the quote I was looking for!

[stoneguide]

anyone who has done any serious traveling in the backcountry with a packstring knows why diamonds work in all situations. adjusting loads, different top packs, adjusting your boxes for weight etc. you can use seatbelts, bungee cords or duct tape or possibly some other methods. I have had a pack string for 40 years and doubt if more than a handful of resident hunters can match that experience. Over the years i have seen about every way to tie gear on a horse you can think of, but when the chips are down nothing will beat a good tight diamond. i use plastic pack boxes and new types of pack saddles, new type of ropes etc because they work. I use single or double diamond because they work. the only people i have seen use seat belts or bungee's are guys that don't stray to far from the road or can't figure out how to tie a diamond. If you are serious back country horseman do your self a favor and learn to tie a tight diamond and when you get to the end of your rope tie a knot in it and hang on.

very well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[waistdeep]

Finally - comman sense that is applicable due to expertice

[David Heitsman]

Since we're talking packing, I think I've done a fair bit as a hunter over the years but obviously not as much as a guide or horsemen. That being said, I was packing into the Ashnola sheep hunting for a week a few years ago
and we seemed to have trouble with this one horse keeping him tightly packed. I had brought about 50' of stretchable yachtline that I have used for our boat moorage.

I offered to give it but our wrangler would have nothing to do with anything but his whiskered up nylon rope. After a few days I said to let me try it. Basically I replicated some of the angles of the diamond and never touched it again and he kept it all when we were done. The give and take of the stretch just kept everything together. I do suspect that in water and freezing that the rope would be of no value.

Speaking of innovations in packing: On the Tuchodi we had two kitchen paniers that were shelved inside and the sides folded down and were held by small ropes. This kept the food from crushing and made for two quick work surfaces to prepare meals on.

After seeing so many pack boxes get snagged on trees and jostled back, I've often wondered if the forward corners couldn't be angled at 45 degrees so that they'd slide better past the trees. Has this allready been done?

[brno375]

The bungee system works very well.