grizz/cross hairs??

[lightmag]

So your shooting a 300 WSM 180-200 TSX, 100-200 broadside shot on a grizzly, do you put the cross hairs behind the front leg and lung shoot it or take out the shoulder and hope it does enough damage?? I've alway's been taught/told, put one in the vitals 1st!

Curious as I'm hopeing to have my crosshairs on one this year:mrgreen:

[Gateholio]

Either will work. The TSX will penetrate both shoulders and exit.

[yama49]

I would take shoulders, imo

[killman]

Take it you got a Grizz draw:mrgreen:. Me I would shoot shoulders first. But I am thinking either will work, so long as he doesn't get to you before his lungs run out:wink:. Key is to not stop shooting until it is down.

[kootenayelkslayer]

If you shoot a grizz in the lungs, it is going to die. If you shoot a grizz farther forward in the shoulder, you might miss a good lung shot, and it may not die too quickly, and a grizzly can still get around pretty well on three legs. I've never really understood this debate...shoot it in the lungs and it's all over for the bear.
If you look up pictures of bear anatomy, you'll see that the bear's shoulders are quite far forward, making the margin for error quite a bit smaller.

[lightmag]

If you shoot a grizz in the lungs, it is going to die. If you shoot a grizz farther forward in the shoulder, you might miss a good lung shot, and it may not die too quickly, and a grizzly can still get around pretty well on three legs. I've never really understood this debate...shoot it in the lungs and it's all over for the bear.
If you look up pictures of bear anatomy, you'll see that the bear's shoulders are quite far forward, making the margin for error quite a bit smaller.


my thoughts exactly, but i want to hear everyone elses thoughts and expirences. At least the bear IS on it's last breaths with one through the lungs, through the shoulder, well, you just never can be sure.

[Barracuda]

ever seen how far a bear travels with its lungs shot out :lol:

[lightmag]

ever seen how far a bear travels with its lungs shot out :lol:


NO! but i'm starting to re-think my "lung shot" :icon_frow

[lightmag]

So, theoretically, a front shoulder quartered towards you would be the best overall shot, you break one shoulder and have a big set of lungs behind it to hit, slowing mobility and taking his air away? NO?

[northof49]

my thoughts exactly, but i want to hear everyone elses thoughts and expirences. At least the bear IS on it's last breaths with one through the lungs, through the shoulder, well, you just never can be sure.
Man up. Use a bow, get in nice and close and go for the vitals. Now that's excitment!! haha

[boatdoc]

Take out the shoulder first , seen grizz hit both ways, the shoulder is less exciting if you know what i mean.

[bruin]

I agree with KOS 100%. I've had hunters shoot bears both ways and I would say I've had to finish off about 20-30% of the "shoulder" kills versus 0 of the double lungers obviously. I don't mind crawling into the thick stuff if I know they've been hit in the lungs, not so true for a very much alive bear with broken shoulders. 300 WSM's haven't always broken both shoulders on a BB for me, not sure of all the loads though. Shoot for the lungs, they'll die. The perfect shot for me is a broadside with one shoulder pulled back behind the lungs. Pop the lungs and break a shoulder, they're not going anywhere.

[northof49]

I agree with KOS 100%. I've had hunters shoot bears both ways and I would say I've had to finish off about 20-30% of the "shoulder" kills versus 0 of the double lungers obviously. I don't mind crawling into the thick stuff if I know they've been hit in the lungs, not so true for a very much alive bear with broken shoulders. 300 WSM's haven't always broken both shoulders on a BB for me, not sure of all the loads though. Shoot for the lungs, they'll die. The perfect shot for me is a broadside with one shoulder pulled back behind the lungs. Pop the lungs and break a shoulder, they're not going anywhere.
I shouldered one and couldn't get another in before the bugger made it into the bush. I figured he was gonna be right there (250gr) and gave only about 5mins due to losing light. Was right on a corner of a cleared area where he went in. As I started heading in nice and slow my buddy just behind me noticed movement off to left slightly behind us. He had gone in then circled to left by pulling/pushing himself along. If wasn't for my buddy it could have truned out differently. After that, I fugure if he is close to the bush like that maybe the vitals is the way to go and sure nice to give more time before going in. If out in the open where can for sure get in a few more rounds I say the shoulder still.

[boxhitch]

I like that too Bruin
Slight angle away aim for the off-side shoulder when near-side leg is forward.
Less visual contact too !

[MRP]

Clayton Mack one of BC best Grizzlie guides always told his hunters to shoot the lungs.

[wunderboy]

ever seen how far a bear travels with its lungs shot out :lol:

Not sure about Grizz but most bears I shoot through the lungs travel about 20 - 50 yards. I also use bullets that do more damage and expel more energy into the animal then a tsx. Then again I have never shot a grizzly. I vote lungs.

[Shooter Jr.]

Man up. Use a bow, get in nice and close and go for the vitals. Now that's excitment!! haha

Are you looking to die?:mrgreen:

I don't even like bears being close to me let alone a wounded bear 40 yards away possibly charging me.

[northof49]

Are you looking to die?:mrgreen:

I don't even like bears being close to me let alone a wounded bear 40 yards away possibly charging me.
Just don't wound im!

[Shooter Jr.]

Just don't wound im!
Very rarely have I seen anyone instantly kill a bear with a bow. Don't like it one bit.

[Shooter Jr.]

Just don't wound im!
Read your little saying under you profile picture. I don't want to enjoy hunting as a vegetable.
It would suck to be a paraplegic or even worse a quadriplegic.

[Buckster]

shot a few bears everyone broadside through both front shoulders, and lungs all of them stopped dropped and rolled. Shooting a .300 Ultramag 180 grain TSX

[hunter1947]

Cripple them up first and that is in the front shoulders there not going any where with this shot....

[paw325]

You've chosen a good round and an excellent bullet. The 180's will do fine.

90% of the griz i've shot or seen shot moved quite rapidly and erratically after the first shot is in them. Your follow up shots will be nowhere near as accurate as your first. Further they always try and get to cover where follow up shots can't be had. I much prefer following a griz into alders when I know he's been hit in the lungs vs one who's been hit elsewhere. Next issue is blood trail, a bear hit anywhere doesn't bleed much, a bear not hit in the vitals doesn't bleed at all. Very touchy tracking.

Shoot the vitals to kill him first and then try and keep him in place by shooting for shoulders and spine after.

The only thing that kills them is blood pressure drop. Obviously a skull or spine shot kills instantly, but skull shots are hard on the trophy portion of the griz.

[eaglesnester]

The Speer reloading manual volume #14 states that they do not recommend using any 30 caliber rifle to hunt grizzley bears. Now there are grizzley bears and there are grizzley bears. The mountain and inland grizz is typicaly smaller than the 10 foot Alaskan or Canadian coastal bears. You might be ok using a 30 on the mountain grizz as long as it is on the smalish side. Yes a 30 caliber will kill a grizzley bear but will it do it safely under all circumstances? The answer to that is clearly no. A wounded dead on his feet 1000 lb grizzly with his lungs full of blood can run 100yards in about 5 seconds. You need a big 338 as a min or better yet a 375H&H or a 340 Weatherby magnum to anchor a grizz in a determined charge. Many hunters underestmate the intelligence, danger and the toughness of a wounded G.B. They can take a huge amount of lead and still keep on a commen. Shoot em in the shoulders with the proper caliber, stop the bear, but by all means keep shooting until that bear is down for good.

[lightmag]

The Speer reloading manual volume #14 states that they do not recommend using any 30 caliber rifle to hunt grizzley bears. Now there are grizzley bears and there are grizzley bears. The mountain and inland grizz is typicaly smaller than the 10 foot Alaskan or Canadian coastal bears. You might be ok using a 30 on the mountain grizz as long as it is on the smalish side. Yes a 30 caliber will kill a grizzley bear but will it do it safely under all circumstances? The answer to that is clearly no. A wounded dead on his feet 1000 lb grizzly with his lungs full of blood can run 100yards in about 5 seconds. You need a big 338 as a min or better yet a 375H&H or a 340 Weatherby magnum to anchor a grizz in a determined charge. Many hunters underestmate the intelligence, danger and the toughness of a wounded G.B. They can take a huge amount of lead and still keep on a commen. Shoot em in the shoulders with the proper caliber, stop the bear, but by all means keep shooting until that bear is down for good.


300 not enough gun??? have to disagree with you, sure there are bigger/better dangerous game rifles. but the 300 is no slouch?? 338 is not that much better than a 300?? sure you can throw a bigger chuck of lead but 300/338, both will have similar results. yes a 375 is bigger better, but thousands of big grizz have been killed/stopped with 300

[BromBones]

My first grizzly got double shouldered with my 7mm RM/175 Nosler Partition. Broke both sides and dumped him flat. I was only 16, and thought the 7 Mag was a cannon. It certainly worked well.

I've since taken grizz with 338, 45/70, and 8mm RM, and also busted a few as a backup gunner. If he's quartering away, I'll do the lung/off shoulder shot. Quartered towards, I'll hit the point of the shoulder and angle it through. Facing me, I'll let one have it straight on through the chest. Broadside I'll go for both shoulders.

In any one of those situations, put a good bullet where it needs to go and your hunt's over.

[Gateholio]

The Speer reloading manual volume #14 states that they do not recommend using any 30 caliber rifle to hunt grizzley bears. Now there are grizzley bears and there are grizzley bears. The mountain and inland grizz is typicaly smaller than the 10 foot Alaskan or Canadian coastal bears. You might be ok using a 30 on the mountain grizz as long as it is on the smalish side. Yes a 30 caliber will kill a grizzley bear but will it do it safely under all circumstances? The answer to that is clearly no. A wounded dead on his feet 1000 lb grizzly with his lungs full of blood can run 100yards in about 5 seconds. You need a big 338 as a min or better yet a 375H&H or a 340 Weatherby magnum to anchor a grizz in a determined charge. Many hunters underestmate the intelligence, danger and the toughness of a wounded G.B. They can take a huge amount of lead and still keep on a commen. Shoot em in the shoulders with the proper caliber, stop the bear, but by all means keep shooting until that bear is down for good.

Probably because Speer doesn't make TSX bullets...:mrgreen:

[Ltbullken]

So your shooting a 300 WSM 180-200 TSX, 100-200 broadside shot on a grizzly, do you put the cross hairs behind the front leg and lung shoot it or take out the shoulder and hope it does enough damage?? I've alway's been taught/told, put one in the vitals 1st!

Curious as I'm hopeing to have my crosshairs on one this year:mrgreen:

With that load, I'd go for the shoulder because you will get the penetration to the vitals as well as dropping it in it's tracks. The TSX rules!

[Camp Cook]

On grizzlies I'm a chest/lung/heart into the off side shoulder kind of guy...

Best of both worlds...

My last grizzly was hit this way and made it 75 yards before it died at a full run...

[northof49]

On grizzlies I'm a chest/lung/heart into the off side shoulder kind of guy...

Best of both worlds...

My last grizzly was hit this way and made it 75 yards before it died at a full run...
One thing life has taught me is you NEVER argue with the "Camp Cook" haha. :wink: I guess that' it for this thread!

[ytlogger]

My two-bits. G. bear's heart rate is about half that of a moose(human's is a little less than moose) so expect the bear to live farther(longer) than the moose if lung shot. His body is accustomed to operating on less blood pumping. He could go forever if shoulder shot. G bear rarely go down instantly and for good on lung or shoulder shots and if they appear to have done so, keep shooting. G Bears are notorious for recovering from shock and going on a tear. As has been said, the lung shot is ultimately a killer. More to the point I think, is to get closer than 200 and have a competent back up shooter with you. Personally, I only know of two G. bears that were down for good on one shot. Both were spine shot with .270 win.. Bigger is probably better, but placement kills.

[GoatGuy]

Shoulder guy, but can't argue with the boiler room either.

Point is to make the shot count.

[hunter1947]

I have see a few movies on shooting a griz or polar bear in the lungs and they don't go down ,but If you cripple a bear by a shoulder shot then they won't be able to charge you.

I have seen videos where a bear has been shot in the vittles and the bear charges the shooter ,if the shoulders where taken out this would not happen..

[ytlogger]

And if the shoulder shot doesn't anchor him...

There are lots of variables. You can do everything 'right' and still end up in a jackpot. Get close, shoot well and have a reliable back-up if at all possible. Keep on shooting until the bear is down for good or out of sight. Solo is cool but a good partner is money.

[Barracuda]

useing enough gun and a good bullet is essential.

[moose2]

300 not enough gun??? have to disagree with you, sure there are bigger/better dangerous game rifles. but the 300 is no slouch?? 338 is not that much better than a 300?? sure you can throw a bigger chuck of lead but 300/338, both will have similar results. yes a 375 is bigger better, but thousands of big grizz have been killed/stopped with 300

I shot my book griz with a 300 win mag using factory 180s. He stood up so I aimed center chest at about 200 yards. He fell into the berry bushes then got up and walked away. I looked for about 5 minutes then he walked out at 30 yards I shot for lungs and hit the exiting shoulder as well , this finished him. I won't shoot center chest again he was still far to lively after that first shot for my liking. He would have died but there was little blood trail and he stayed mobile for a long time. On the well placed lung shot this caliber and bullet was a very effective combo.
Mike

[hunter1947]

Hit the bone in the shoulder this will put the griz down..

[6616]

So, theoretically, a front shoulder quartered towards you would be the best overall shot, you break one shoulder and have a big set of lungs behind it to hit, slowing mobility and taking his air away? NO?

Broadside slightly quartering away is even better, take out the lungs first and the off-side shoulder on the way out.

[.330 Dakota]

What about high on the shoulder as to bust the spine and the shoulders????? Would like to here SRUPP chime in on this one

[mark]

The last black bear I shot was a huge 7' boar.....I had a perfect 70 yard broadside shot, my 300 mag with 180's vaporized the heart!!!!
I mean no piece of the heart was any bigger than a golf ball!!!
If you were with me, you would of swore that I missed him....he took off doing 90, across a swamp, made it 100 yards in 5 seconds, before he realized that he was dead!
At that point, he was deader than dead, but in them 5 seconds he could of nearly had me....:shock:
I agree with the slight quartered away shot....lungs, then shoulder in 1 perfect shot!
Then shoot some more! :twisted:

[BiG Boar]

Yikes is all I can say! That video creeped me right out! Makes me wonder about taking a grizz with a bow!

[srupp]

hmmmm some very interesting but not very helpful info being proported here by...some folks that heard from a brothers friend...everyone is entitled to an opinion however.... some of those opinions are coming from very ineperienced individuals...folks lives are on the line here....

please try to use a premium bullet...my choice without hesitation is the TSX...AND THE BIGGER THE BETTER..if you can get a 200 gr...that the one you should choose,.,,,imo

the choice shot should be between 70 yards and 150 yards..not shorter not longer....

front head on shots should not be attempted..imo..nor Teaxas heart shots...(From the rear)..nor spine shots not neck shots..

aim for the shoulder facing you..not the offside shoulder...always..imo...the bear should be a right angles..side shot...a slight angle is OK....with a reasonable distance and a reasonable weapon going through the front shoulder has a reasonably good chance at taking out the off shoulder also..

these offhand talk of lung shots are..BS..imho...not from experienced grizzly hunters...do not use the lung shot strategy..you will not like the results you have put yopurself and partner into..

While we are chatting G bears..coastal grizzly.."brown bears" should be in the 7 1/2 feet plus..males for true trophy bears..a reasonable chance should present itself for a 8 ' --8 1/2 ' speciman..

Interior G bears..should be in the 7' range for trophy quality..and there are a lot of 8' interior bears..and are the size to be "aimed for".....



And just for clarification Mr Clayton Mack did NOT say aim for the lungs....he and I talked many many many times..John Wayne..ya THAT John Wayne ..had a much closer look at a live coastal grizzly in Kwatna bay..by NOT listeneing to Clayton..he pointed to the shoulder..and said to 'aim here" that will take out the lungs..the bullet drove through the leg bone/shoulder and drove bullet and bones through the lungs like shrappnel and destroyed a lot of lung tissue...THATS what Clayton advised and EXPECTED of his hunters..


steven

cheers

Steven

[Barracuda]

Yikes is all I can say! That video creeped me right out! Makes me wonder about taking a grizz with a bow!

just get it on video and make sure it is a minimum of nine feet if it is coastal bear for a true trophy :mrgreen:


ps: you have to wear a kilt when doing this

[BiG Boar]

just get it on video and make sure it is a minimum of nine feet if it is coastal bear for a true trophy :mrgreen:


ps: you have to wear a kilt when doing this

At least this way I wont have to change my shorts after! Now, tell us about your bear! Or did I miss the story?

[Barracuda]

a bit of one I added in the spring bear thread .

I wonder what the guy used on the bear in the video?

Seriously though i would stay outa sight till he bleeds out and wait for the high fives till he is dead cause if he can locate you and decides to exact his revenge it could go sideways fast.:shock:

[Darksith]

the bear is 100-200yds and probably doesn't know you are there. Shoot lung. I also have a buddy that was charged with his dad, the bear had both front shoulders broken and was still pushing itself towards them with its hind legs, so for that insane experience again I say shoot lung.

[srupp]

Darsith..hmmm the only danger is not that he charge you..although you did start the fight with the shot..however he doesnt need to cover the 200 yards(too far for the average bear hunter) he only has to get into the THICK HEAVY TIMBER..now YOU have to maybe get a couple yards from him..he may be deceased..or maybe still alive and now you are dead??eventually you need to go find him...maybe you can maybe you cant..

Your buddy that got charged..you were not there..you do not know if indeed both shoulders were broaken..and IF you break the front leg..the lungs are also toast...

Your one example from hearing it from someone else telling a bear tale..of their kill...isnt what the overwhelming experiences of those that have been out there doing this for decades...

Your one example if in fact is accurate..I wasnt there...does not come close to the 35 years of my experiences, and those of many guides...of course feel free to use whatever you choose...

cheers
Steven

[Ambush]

No animal in the world can live long after being shot through both lungs.

Except the grizzly, it seems.:confused:

[Barracuda]

it can live long enough to kill you before it uses up its oxygen and glycogen

[killer_shot]

Man up. Use a bow, get in nice and close and go for the vitals. Now that's excitment!! haha

Second that !

was 80 yards from 2 grizz yesterday pretty exciting stuff knowing you could die :)

[gutpile]

Yikes is all I can say! That video creeped me right out! Makes me wonder about taking a grizz with a bow!

Hey big boar, i would take a few blackbears with a bow before trying for a giz just my ...imo

[Ambush]

it can live long enough to kill you before it uses up its oxygen and glycogen

It can live a lot longer with a broken arm and a tore up brisket after a hunter pulls his shot just a little the wrong way. Would you rather trail a grizzly that you know is dead, or one that you're pretty darned sure should be immobilized enough not to get you before you get another shot. Proximity to thick bush and terrain would also have to be considered.

I'll bet most people don't even know, close enough, where the shoulder is, to aim in the proper spot. It would be very interesting to have a full size, paper grizzly at a range and then ask people to shoot it in the shoulder, under field like conditions.Then compare that target to the skeletal structure of a real bear.

If you shoot at the shoulder and pull sideways, there are two outcomes. Either you hit lungs and he's dead or you hit brisket and now you have to hunt a very hurting, mean grizzly that may be planning the same for you.
If you shoot at lungs and pull sideways, there are two outcomes. You will hit the shoulder and some lungs or, if you're far enough back, you will go through his guts. In the case of guts, wait twelve hours and he's dead.

And let's please not claim that every grizzly hunter squeezing a trigger is as cool as Dirty Harry and never pulls a shot.

[srupp]

it is obvious you have your mind set on shooting the lungs,, arguing with knowlegable folks who have done a LOT og g bear hunting and guiding..so do it your way

sometimes a word to ty
he wise isnt sufficiant......

good luck

steven Rupp

[mark]

No animal in the world can live long after being shot through both lungs.

Except the grizzly, it seems.:confused:

Seeing as you just killed one with an "arrow" recently........lungs I pressume, how far till he piled up??? (if there was a story I missed it)

[Foxton Gundogs]

it can live long enough to kill you before it uses up its oxygen and glycogen

HELL it can live long enuff to kill you without a HEART let alone lungs.

[Ambush]

it is obvious you have your mind set on shooting the lungs,, arguing with knowlegable folks who have done a LOT og g bear hunting and guiding..so do it your way


sometimes a word to ty
he wise isnt sufficiant......

good luck

steven Rupp

Rather than dismissing me as an unteachable idiot, you could comment, constructively, on the points in my post.

And offering an opinion, though it differs from yours, is not really argueing.

[.330 Dakota]

hmmmm some very interesting but not very helpful info being proported here by...some folks that heard from a brothers friend...everyone is entitled to an opinion however.... some of those opinions are coming from very ineperienced individuals...folks lives are on the line here....

please try to use a premium bullet...my choice without hesitation is the TSX...AND THE BIGGER THE BETTER..if you can get a 200 gr...that the one you should choose,.,,,imo

the choice shot should be between 70 yards and 150 yards..not shorter not longer....

front head on shots should not be attempted..imo..nor Teaxas heart shots...(From the rear)..nor spine shots not neck shots..

aim for the shoulder facing you..not the offside shoulder...always..imo...the bear should be a right angles..side shot...a slight angle is OK....with a reasonable distance and a reasonable weapon going through the front shoulder has a reasonably good chance at taking out the off shoulder also..

these offhand talk of lung shots are..BS..imho...not from experienced grizzly hunters...do not use the lung shot strategy..you will not like the results you have put yopurself and partner into..

While we are chatting G bears..coastal grizzly.."brown bears" should be in the 7 1/2 feet plus..males for true trophy bears..a reasonable chance should present itself for a 8 ' --8 1/2 ' speciman..

Interior G bears..should be in the 7' range for trophy quality..and there are a lot of 8' interior bears..and are the size to be "aimed for".....



And just for clarification Mr Clayton Mack did NOT say aim for the lungs....he and I talked many many many times..John Wayne..ya THAT John Wayne ..had a much closer look at a live coastal grizzly in Kwatna bay..by NOT listeneing to Clayton..he pointed to the shoulder..and said to 'aim here" that will take out the lungs..the bullet drove through the leg bone/shoulder and drove bullet and bones through the lungs like shrappnel and destroyed a lot of lung tissue...THATS what Clayton advised and EXPECTED of his hunters..


steven

cheers

Steven

Thanks Steve, Thats good advice, and it is certainly not wasted on me. I believe if you want what someone has earned, then ask them how they did it and listen. If you follow the same path you should achieve the same result...common sense no? My gestimation of g-bears is you have to kill them before you piss them off. Busted shoulder x2 with shrapnel into the lungs and heart should do it.
I carry my Dakota with 225grn ttsx bullets or my 375 with 300 partitions when chasing bears. Have shot many blacks with the 375 and when shoulder shot have had many drop in their tracks. I hit one in the lungs once with a 300 grainer and it ran over 250 yards....scary
Thanks for the sound advice.

[srupp]

sorry Ambush..this point has been trashed over hundreds of times....I in fact did try and point out why the lung shot is a poor choice...based on hundreds of grizzly involvement , by me, my clients my guide mentors,.,fellow guides, fellow hunters and the hundreds..HUNDREDS of fellow hunters I have helped here and on other sites...and their experiences when they did it or didnt do it as suggested...

I am not trying to brag about my considerable experience...I am trying to help new grizzly hunters to help them be safe and go home alive to their family and collect a trophy grizzly bear in the process..the most fun you can have with your cloths on..

If you would like send me a PM and a PH # and I will call you..my dime..and share some of the experiences over the past 40 years and my teaching form Betty Franks, Gerry Bracewell..Mre Clayton Mack....



Steven

[M.Dean]

Grizzly Bears eat meat. I'm made of meat, so I try to stay away from Grizzly Bears! But, a word to the wise, if you do go out in the Woods to hunt this man-eater, fill your pockets with 2 inch framing nails! Load every pocket you got with them, long shiny nails! Then, when this huge Grizzly Bear kills and eats you, the prick will at least choke to death on the nails!!! Good Luck, and most of all, have fun out there!!!

[Leaseman]

My son and I just spent the last few days with srupp up in "his" hunting grounds.....

I have hunted for 40 years and thought I knew a lot about many different animals..... I took a very good schooling from Steven. My son, the "usual" 17 year old talked all the way home (to the coast) about what Steven had taught/shown/shared with him (us) and couldn't believe the knowledge Steve has and the time he takes to help others......

When we left the "Boo, we definately left with more knowledge, especially about bears!! We will be making more trips with Steve (time permitting) as he is a fun person to share a fire with!

Over the next day or so, I will post up our little trip to visit Srupp!

Mike
:mrgreen::wink:

[srupp]

lol not many individuals get to experience everything Nick did...not exactly what I could promise or anything..merely explained what... why..where...when...the HUGE grizzly, huge black bears, crqanes. martens..etc etc etc/// wonderful memories for the young lad..

Hopefully we can do it again very soon....I personally had a blast... kinda hard for such a young man to take in whats been learned in over 4 decades of doing this hard core..


Cheers

Steven

[338 winmag]

Correct me if I'm mistaken but does Phil Shoemaker not instruct his clients to shoot for the lungs?

[srupp]

dont know who he is???

cheers
Steven

[338 winmag]

I will assume your kidding Steven, but if not

http://www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com/

[srupp]

nope..not kidding.......I posted my oppinions..and reasons why..Ill leave this for others to express their opinions also..

cheers

Srupp

[BillBraskii]

i find it funny that everybody puts so much weight on what ONE guy says.....

especially when that guy carts around a little grizzly skull telling everybody its a monster blackie skull:wink:

[Foxton Gundogs]

The first video posted on here kinda tells it all, it should be enuff said but each to their own I guess. All I know is with 45 years experience of riding hunting packing around grizzly country If I gotta shoot a G bear I want it anchored with broken shoulders not coming at me dead with a mad on wondering if it will drown in its own blood in time or not. But each to their own opinion(as long as they arn't hunting with me).

[338 winmag]

No offence to anyone but why not listen to the experts that guide big bears for a living.

quote

I have all my clients try and put the first round right behind the shoulder - mid way up the body as It's the largest vital target and the easiest to hit. Or less easy to miss to be more precise.
Then to keep firing until the bear is down.
If I have to shoot I try to make sure my shots pass directly between the shoulder blades slightly above the center line. From side on it will break both shoulders ( even with a 200 Partition from a 30-06) and from the front or rear either take off the top of the heart ( if a bit low) or clip the spine ( if a bit high)
_________________________
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com (http://www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com)

[338 winmag]

The reasoning for a lung shot is it is better to track a dead bear then a broken down bear when they get in the thick stuff.

[longrifle]

No offence to anyone but why not listen to the experts that guide big bears for a living.

quote

I have all my clients try and put the first round right behind the shoulder - mid way up the body as It's the largest vital target and the easiest to hit. Or less easy to miss to be more precise.
Then to keep firing until the bear is down.
If I have to shoot I try to make sure my shots pass directly between the shoulder blades slightly above the center line. From side on it will break both shoulders ( even with a 200 Partition from a 30-06) and from the front or rear either take off the top of the heart ( if a bit low) or clip the spine ( if a bit high)
_________________________
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com (http://www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com)

i think srupp is a been there, done that type of guy when it comes to gbears...

'rifle

[338 winmag]

Another quote by Phil

Experience has taught me that most hunters are so nervous that I have them place the first shot through the lungs - so long as they do that they will have a trophy to take home with them - then for the second shot they can try for the shoulder.


_________________________
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com (http://www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com/)

[dutchie]

Hey big boar, i would take a few blackbears with a bow before trying for a giz just my ...imo

If bigBore posted up every hunt he did and told about each and every kill he has made then he would not be married, or have a life outside of HBC. Let alone geting out hunting again.

If you knew him very well at all you know would know that he has MANY bow kills under his belt, some being dangerous game and some being black bears.

He is a really smart guy, he knows what he is doing and would never put his wife in the position of being a widow.

Just an FYI

Dutchie

[Deer_Slayer]

go for heart lung shot..only time I go for shoulder shot is when bear is facing towards me, head down feeding and is oblivious to my presence. Then I take him right between shoulders breaking neck, shoulders and basically anchoring the beast on the spot. No animal can survive with lungs and heart exploded.

[338 winmag]

Here's a quote from John Barsness

We all hear a lot about breaking bears down, but the two most experienced bear guides I know, Jim Shockey on black bears and Phil Shoemaker on brown bears, advise against the shoulder shot.

Why? Too many hunter concentrate on breaking bone rather than hitting vitals. Both would rather see a good double-lung shot than a "shoulder" shot that misses the vitals. That's been my experience as well, on both black bears and grizzlies. Hit them through the heart/lungs and they don't go very far at all, regardless of whether a shoulder was broken.

I have shot a number of bears behind the shoulder, and seen several others shot in the same place. If the placement truly is right behind the shoulder, they're very dead, very quickly. If not, then the shot was too far back.

I have also seen black bears with one broken shoulder go quite a ways, even when vitals were hit. It takes a double shoulder hit to "break them down," not often possible.
_________________________
John

[Camp Cook]

I used to take break bone shots I now aim for the big spot = take out the lungs...

[Deer_Slayer]

I'd checkout surroundings first..if bear is close to really thick cover I'll bust shoulders then follow up real fast. If you get him out in open and he has to bolt 100 - 200 yards for cover and he hasn't seen you, take him in lungs. Just remember most lung shot animals will still run a distance before collapsing. I like to wait until bear is facing me...head down feeding, then take him right between shoulders..breaks everything and that bear is down.

[mrak]

the bear is 100-200yds and probably doesn't know you are there. Shoot lung. I also have a buddy that was charged with his dad, the bear had both front shoulders broken and was still pushing itself towards them with its hind legs, so for that insane experience again I say shoot lung.

True,, but he can not stear him self as you are in control now,, i shoot as most have been close as they dip there head and it is shoulder time. YES the heaviest bullet your gun will handel. At 2 to 300 yards quartering away and high shoulder as you are safe and time is on your side.

[mrak]

The reasoning for a lung shot is it is better to track a dead bear then a broken down bear when they get in the thick stuff.

The ravens will let you know where he ends up

[Nekhani]

Interesting to hear all the theories and a lot of good points..From my experience certainly the best place to hit a Grizzly Bear is dead in the heart/lungs for the first shot. IF you or your client hit him in the heart where you/he is aiming then he will not get away on you as so many bears do when poorly hit.Very hard animals to kill and can heal up even when hit hard anywhere but heart and lung shot.For your second shot you can hit him in the shoulders or heart/lungs again you are bound to hit him in the shoulders as well when he is running..The main thing is to get your best shot into the boiler room first so that you know the bear is going to die sooner than later.Don't stop filling him with lead until he is obviously down for good. Get as much lead into him as you can as long as he is still mobile.Taxidermists are good at sewing up holes. Grizzly Bears can go an unbelievable long ways when wounded so obviously you want to make your first shot count. Even with his heart shot right out he will still live for sometimes 15 minutes. Do not go undergunned.. use at least a 300 mag, nothing less for Grizzly.Unfortunately I have seen many bears hit with what seemed to be a good shots from 7mm's and they have ran away never to be found.Too skinny of a bullet and too fast. I always used a 375 H&H and it is amazing how much lead they can take and keep coming. If you hit him in the spine he will drop like a sack of shit just the same as any animal but is usually too risky for a first shot, given the amount of fur they have on them, easy to misjudge exactly where the spine is.Don't take any longshots or any shots that may wound him. If he is standing in front of you looking at you then you can give him a dead center neck shot or center chest shot so you can hopefully kill him quick, as he has already got a look at you..

[muledeercrazy]

I agree with SRupp, I've read to many experienced hunters say the same thing about all dangerous game to not believe in it. It is most certainly the only sane place to shoot a grizzly that is attacking you, or probably even one who knows you are there. Actaully, isnt that one of Jack O'Connors rules of grizz hunting? Never shoot one that knows your there, closer than 100 yards, or is uphill? Gary Sheldon is considered pretty knowledgable and he preaches the shoulder shot. I cant say either way for sure because I havnt shot that many bears, but i will allways shoot for the shoulder myself. Anchor them, then put one through the lungs for good measure. I do know how fast a bear can move, and if you ever have one go from o-30mph in a blink of an eye you might see it that way. It is a whole different thing for a guide to say to a client that is potentially a poor marksman to shoot for the lung when he is backing him up with a large bore rifle, especially when he admits his back up shot is going for the shoulder. If the bear is in the open and doesnt know you are there, a lung shot should work fine. But why take the chance?

[Camp Cook]

This pic shows what a .375" 300gr Partition with an appr impact velocity of 2300fps will do...

Shot entered center of chest took out both lungs missing the football size heart exited the chest leaving an appr 6" exit hole in the rib cage it then went thru the front leg/shoulder and exited.

Bear still ran appr 80 yards after being hit.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/506/medium/Grizzly_Hunt_June_2008_029.jpg

[srupp]

Nekhani ..no if you blow the heart completely out of a grizz he wont live for 15 minutes.
...no you do not need a 375 to hunt grizzly
....no the first shot should be to the shoulder front leg..this also takes out the lungs..
....no the second shot should be through the lungs...cuz now the bears moving...the first shot should always be taken on a bear unaware of your presence

Yes..spine shots are a suckers choice..not to be done...
yes keep shooting it is much easier to fill a one inch hole in a bears hide than a 1" hole in your hide...

Yes personaly seen several interior G bears and one coastal G bear taken with 7mm by a good shot, calm bear, and a working knowlege of bear anatomy

have seen 2 Shockey videos on G bears...both front shoulder leg shots..

Everyone is allowed to do it any way they want..its your life "gopher" it..

Nice photo camp cook...

steven

[Foxton Gundogs]

Nekhani ..no if you blow the heart completely out of a grizz he wont live for 15 minutes.
...no you do not need a 375 to hunt grizzly
....no the first shot should be to the shoulder front leg..this also takes out the lungs..
....no the second shot should be through the lungs...cuz now the bears moving...the first shot should always be taken on a bear unaware of your presence

Yes..spine shots are a suckers choice..not to be done...
yes keep shooting it is much easier to fill a one inch hole in a bears hide than a 1" hole in your hide...

Yes personaly seen several interior G bears and one coastal G bear taken with 7mm by a good shot, calm bear, and a working knowlege of bear anatomy

have seen 2 Shockey videos on G bears...both front shoulder leg shots..

Everyone is allowed to do it any way they want..its your life "gopher" it..

Nice photo camp cook...

steven

Now there's common sense for you. Be very comfortable having you beside me if I ever gotta take down a G bear

[THE BEAST]

shoulders are ok but i think that tucked in behind the shoulder is the best shot

[alexboyprin]

...yes...i would be afraid that the shot to the shoulder would miss the lungs or even slide on the shoulder bone!
On the other hand, an animal shot in the lungs will die shortly for sure but, he still can run a 100 yards in the meantime. Let just hope he doesn't run in your direction if it is a grizzly. He may have only 10 second to live but a lot a damage can be done in 10 seconds.

[Ruger4]

Last years black bear bow kill was 13 yards , pretty intense stuff. This past week , the closet we were able to stalk on one of the 14 grizzlies we saw was 94 yards
We saw many grizz and 2x as many black bears last week with rifle in hand. Each time we waited for the slightly quartering away to take out the shoulder/lung combo if in fact I was going to close the deal. Although we let them all walk, the ultimate rush was being inside of 125 yards, crosshairs on , pictures and video now taken and letting these incredible animals meander back on through their enviroment................good times !!

[srupp]

bears shot through both lungs are dead. period. They are not superman..invincible...they are bone and fur and flesh..and TEETH AND CLAWS... with a nasty disposition when shot..understandably.

Arguments are being made that are 'silly" they dont live for 15 minutes when the heart is blown out, nor do bulletts bounce off or "slide off shoulders"..

That first shot on a bear that is totally unaware of your presence gives the best chance..the adrenaline in the bear isnt pumping(yours may be..lol )and its your responsibility to be able to hit what you aim at and where you should be aiming..settling for the lungs because its bigger and a easier target isnt a logical argument..nor valid..perhaps more practice prior to such a important venture?? I personally ask hunters to keep the shots over 70 yards..so there is time for a second shot..and not over 150 yards so accuracy should not be a problem..you can hit hwat and where you should be..

Given the scenario of a calm bear at 90 degrees(broadside) using a weapon suitable for the job at hand...ie 300 wm..338 wm etc using premium bullets ie Barnes TSX.. taking a rest..and using a weapon you have had plenty of practice with and are familliar with..thats the FIRST shot and the best shot..take out that front shoulder/leg combo..it will drive bone through the lungs....yes bullets break bone..not slide off..and if your worried about a shot the size of an orange at under 150 yards..then maybe moose hunting is in your future??

All other big game animals are more suitable, desirable for the lung shot...the bear is the singular north american exception...in 4 decades meeting guides, and doing some limited guiding..talking with very experienced individuals..Betty Franks..Clayton Mack...And hundreds of successful grizzly hunters...what works and why and what the outcome is when these guidlines are ignored or when things go bad..why they did so..

If a deer is hit with a bad shot..a deer may be lost...however when a 900 pound grizzly is hit wrong..or from too far away...or whatever the outcome now has many different scenario endings..some not pleasant....again this is my best case scenario and why...no one wants to see anyone get hurt or worse...and when these things go sideways they do so fast..

There is a video of a few 'experienced " hunters having a ball rolling down a hill directly at them...very few if any could put even one shot in that "charging bear scenario"...its all about that first shot..

google the Cabelas bear charge.......

cheers
Steven

[338 winmag]

Out of curiosity, how many grizz have you personally shot Steven?

[Camp Cook]

There is a video of a few 'experienced " hunters having a ball rolling down a hill directly at them...very few if any could put even one shot in that "charging bear scenario"...its all about that first shot..

I need to give that a try... :D

[srupp]

hmmm please video the results..lol...the best rifle I ever used in that scenario was a old rusted guide gun..Rem .350 with a laminated stock..ugly as hell but for some reason swung smoothly and for me had just that right feeling..fast for first shot and time for a second..however the recoil was unpleasant..

cheers
Steven

[wlbc]

Interesting thread...

Some thoughts I'll share based on my own experiences.

Lung shot bears sometimes drop and sometimes will go for awhile. It seems to depend on the bear...

From my actual observations I have not seen a lung shot bear go for more than a couple of minutes.

Shoulder shot bears sometimes go down and sometimes they do a funky crippled slither movement. It really depends on exactly how the bullet hits.

I have seen bears killed with a 243, placed well, but I am from the larger wound channels kill better school. My point here is that it is more important how you shoot rather than what you shoot.

Having said that my tools of choice for bear hunting are a 338 and a 416.

I double lung bears as a rule. Works for me but the last time I checked this is a free country.

[fireguy]

I shot one, through both shoulders, and though the lungs. 2 good hits , and the third a little far back. he started at 50 yards away, got as close as 10 feet and still made it 75 yards into the bush before he was done. All with 300 win mag, 180 grain, and I weighed the reminants of two bullets that were just inside the hide after going through a shoulder each. 168 and 169 gr. respectively.
All said, they are tough, and he was big as well.

[Camp Cook]

To be fair what size of ball are/were they using and how far away were they releasing it?

I can see that the hard part is going to be getting someone to release the ball for me or it might be safer if I just put a stick in front of the ball and shot it out of the way to get the ball moving...

I'd be trying it with 2 rifles my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 sights = XS sights backup low Weaver ghost ring & my 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM sights = XS Sights backup tall Weaver ghost ring sights & with a scope mounted.

Damn this does sound like fun I need to get my act together and give it a try.

[Nekhani]

You know there Mr.Rupp unfortunately your comments directed to me beg a reply.

Grizzlies have been killed with 22's as well as just about every rifle around at one time or another. Certainly shot placement is where it is at with any weapon. If you only hit bone and not vitals you can easily lose bears and that is why I recommend the first shot to the vitals so that does not happen. Nothing at all wrong with spine/neck shots either when he is close and looking at you, kills him dead quick.

Clients that travel from afar can get quite excited when that big moment comes along to shoot their Grizzly and yes many times they do not get the shot away that they were dreaming and hoping for. In over 35 Spring and Fall seasons of Guiding professionally I have seen so many bears wounded from poor shots that I really do recommend a shot to the vitals so the hunter is successful and goes home with what he came for.

To recommend a lighter caliber rifle as a bear gun to a novice hunter on this forum like a 7 mm is poor advice and I don't know any guides on this continent that recommend their hunters bring anything less than a 300 mag if they are hunting soley for Coastal Grizzly.

I have seen grizzlies last longer than 15 minutes many times when fataly shot and the one in particular that I speak of was a 17 year old boar B+C Grizzly that did in fact live an unbelievable long time with his heart blown out by a 375 H+H.The dying Boar actually bit down on a rock the size of a softball in its death throws and pulverized its own two large canine teeth as it bit down and gave it last breath and finally very reluctantly conceded to its death. A sight to behold for sure that builds a healthy respect for the power of these animals. It was like a big diesel engine that would not stop turning over pumping out blood and it certainly attests to the stamina of these animals even with 5 or 6 300 grain shots in the boiler room.

No Mr. Rupp they are not bullet proof but they do have a very strong will to live as does any wild game. I have the skull here if you ever care to have a look at it to confirm how it bit so hard to crush its own teeth, so don't try to call bullshit on that either.

You know mister gave me some pretty rank and insulting comments back on my posting to do with my experience at hunting these animals. You are not short on spewing out the warm wind when you speak of yourself and I wonder how many years have you been in the guide/outfitting business as a licenced Professional?

You are no doubt probably further ahead to keep watching your phony hunting movies and shooting at your little balls with your guide gun.

I am not interested in getting into a pissing match with you about how to hunt a G bear so don't bother wearing down your tender pink fingers on your keyboard as it seems by your many posts there is certainly no doubt what you spend most of your time doing.

Yours Truly,
Leonard Ellis

[338 winmag]

Saw that one coming.

[srupp]

Thanks for your replythere are some things we agree on, shot placement being very important. My intent was never that one breakdown the shoulder and that was sufficient, to break down the shoulder and drive the bones through the lungs accomplishes two objectives, destroy lung tissue arteries and the bears ability to escape to the dark wet coast or to come directly at the hunters a full out charge. Both are extremely unwanted scenarios. Leonard you mentioned how many bad Hunter's who couldn't seem to shoot and so you recommend the larger lung target and yet you now go on to recommend the spine neck shot? Serious? Wow! Doesn't even start to make sense.
I am far more concerned about safety and a humane harvest then about statistics.
After 40 years of anatomy and physiology and yes bear hunting, I can assure you that if the heart is completely blown out it stops functioning, it cannot pump blood, it cannot deliver oxygen to the brain and any bear will never be alive in 15 min., Perhaps the heart was not blown out and merely missed and a lung was hit? Wouldn't even make it to 2 min. however your point about them being tenacious in hanging onto their life is absolutely correct, and it is for these reasons I recommend taking out the shoulder driving the bone through the lungs for that first shot. Thank you for your offer to view the grizzly skull, however I've seen far far too many over the years, some even with very bad teeth.LOL

My comments were directed at your advice not at you personally, we will have to agree to disagree, I agree you have had considerable experience with hunting the coastal grizzly bear a.k.a. Brown bear and have your reasons for suggesting the way YOU would like to see that done. I have never been a fan of having to go into the woods after any shot bear, I have always considered myself and my hunting partner to be far more valuable than any bear trophy and safety has always been paramount in bear hunting. I have not encountered too many bad shots and even the largest of the bears some going over 9 feet have never made it to the woods with their shoulders taken out, and the resulting fatal lung damage. As far as the balls go they actually were pretty big balls..... And I believe Gary James Sheldon also used a rolling tire to demonstrate shotgun accuracy skills?

I have had the benefit of a long history with some very skilled grizzly guides, hunters, friends and have had many opportunities to evaluate the education I have received, so far they have stood me on high ground.

To hear stories of completely destroyed hearts and super bears alive 15 min. later chopping granite, and the infinite amount of clients that couldn't shoot amazes me and that you would rather go in after a wounded bear then have one shot and die where you choose it to do so for your safety and the client.

To recommend in any circumstance a spine or a neck shot on a grizzly bear is unbelievable.

I am proud to say that I learned many lessons Mr. Clayton Mack... One of the best grizzly guides that will ever walk, one who guided in your neck of the woods..

Leonard ....you are no Mr.CLayton Mack

May I wish you continued success on your hunting endeavors.

And if I can never be any assistance, or you need any information please feel free to contact me at your your
convenience.

My friends call me Steven

You can call me Mr. Rupp

[Springer]

This is Awesome !!!! Gotta hit pause though and get more Popcorn.
As an Albertan i will never get a chance at a Grizzly tag but i sure enjoy your shared learnings fella's. Now Steve, you have to quit making stuff up about Grizzly Bears ....LoL.
That young fella that stopped by your house last fall while i was there that had in hand the cue cards of advice you gave him, could not believe how it played out exactly like you told him, and made sure before he went out that he understood all of it 100%....Like i said stop making this stuff up and ticking off the Outfitters .

[Leaseman]

This is Awesome !!!! Gotta hit pause though and get more Popcorn.
As an Albertan i will never get a chance at a Grizzly tag but i sure enjoy your shared learnings fella's. Now Steve, you have to quit making stuff up about Grizzly Bears ....LoL.
That young fella that stopped by your house last fall while i was there that had in hand the cue cards of advice you gave him, could not believe how it played out exactly like you told him, and made sure before he went out that he understood all of it 100%....Like i said stop making this stuff up and ticking off the Outfitters .

Nicely put Phil......

But then we are one of the few lucky ones that can truely call Steve a great friend. I still marvel at what he taught my son Nick with a few days of hunting bear this spring, Nick took to it like a duck to water.... I too picked up a lot of knowledge on bears from Steve.

So I think I can speak for many Mr. Rupp with a big THANK-YOU for all the bear hunters you have helped in the many years past.....:mrgreen:

Keep up the good work Buddy!!!!


Mike

[Movingdirt]

You know there Mr.Rupp unfortunately your comments directed to me beg a reply.

Grizzlies have been killed with 22's as well as just about every rifle around at one time or another. Certainly shot placement is where it is at with any weapon. If you only hit bone and not vitals you can easily lose bears and that is why I recommend the first shot to the vitals so that does not happen. Nothing at all wrong with spine/neck shots either when he is close and looking at you, kills him dead quick.

Clients that travel from afar can get quite excited when that big moment comes along to shoot their Grizzly and yes many times they do not get the shot away that they were dreaming and hoping for. In over 35 Spring and Fall seasons of Guiding professionally I have seen so many bears wounded from poor shots that I really do recommend a shot to the vitals so the hunter is successful and goes home with what he came for.

To recommend a lighter caliber rifle as a bear gun to a novice hunter on this forum like a 7 mm is poor advice and I don't know any guides on this continent that recommend their hunters bring anything less than a 300 mag if they are hunting soley for Coastal Grizzly.

I have seen grizzlies last longer than 15 minutes many times when fataly shot and the one in particular that I speak of was a 17 year old boar B+C Grizzly that did in fact live an unbelievable long time with his heart blown out by a 375 H+H.The dying Boar actually bit down on a rock the size of a softball in its death throws and pulverized its own two large canine teeth as it bit down and gave it last breath and finally very reluctantly conceded to its death. A sight to behold for sure that builds a healthy respect for the power of these animals. It was like a big diesel engine that would not stop turning over pumping out blood and it certainly attests to the stamina of these animals even with 5 or 6 300 grain shots in the boiler room.

No Mr. Rupp they are not bullet proof but they do have a very strong will to live as does any wild game. I have the skull here if you ever care to have a look at it to confirm how it bit so hard to crush its own teeth, so don't try to call bullshit on that either.

You know mister gave me some pretty rank and insulting comments back on my posting to do with my experience at hunting these animals. You are not short on spewing out the warm wind when you speak of yourself and I wonder how many years have you been in the guide/outfitting business as a licenced Professional?

You are no doubt probably further ahead to keep watching your phony hunting movies and shooting at your little balls with your guide gun.

I am not interested in getting into a pissing match with you about how to hunt a G bear so don't bother wearing down your tender pink fingers on your keyboard as it seems by your many posts there is certainly no doubt what you spend most of your time doing.

Yours Truly,
Leonard Ellis

Sweet Leonard! So fine.

[j270wsm]

I shot my first Grizz last year, I used my dads 300win with 180gr partitions. My First and only shot was 268yds, I hit him in the bottom 1/3 of the chest behind the elbow and he went 15yds and piled up. I have issues seeing blood trails( color blind ) but had no problems find the trail he left. My Father ( GunPower ) always taught me that it doesnt matter how big of a gun u shoot, if you make a bad shot the animal will not go down when or where you want it to. My advise is to make sure you are using a rifle/ammo combination that u are comfortable shooting, and take the best shot available, if you arent sure then wait. Your live is worth more than a rushed/bad shot.

[Movingdirt]

My back ground in physiology and in depth knowledge about the anatomy and function of the circulatory system and my 35 years of hunting experience has given me a tremendous amount of practical knowledge.................blah, blah, blah.
Shoot it in the heart. Then shoot it again if you can. And again till it drops or you lose sight of it. Followup with an ass shot if thats all that presents.

[srupp]

the point being..Movingdirt...its physiology,,,big difference..lol ..bears with no hearts arent doing anything 15 minutes late not munching granite,,they are indeed dead..do whatever you want...do your texas heart shots..

I have had the privilege to help many members from this and other sites collect their grizzly trophy..both coastal and interior..no one came back hurt, or maimed..last count there were 7 or 8 booner bears..none escaped..everyone had a great time..I'm sorry if a coastal guide is upset yes there have been a lot of grizzlies taken out of that area without guides..... safetly...oh well

Your advice of...." keep shooting" is quite appropriate and sage advice...that was waht I was attempting not snide bs responses...

steven

[ROEBUCK]

thought, id bump this thread as its interesting !

been doing a lot of research on shot placement on grizz
seems 95% of the hunts ive watched on video seem to be lung shots !
the 3 shoulder shot grizz hunts I watched all ended up going sideways !

[BiG Boar]

In preparation for an archery hunt for Grizzly I have been looking at some graphics showing lung and hear and bone structure of the front leg. It looks to me like you would want to hit the back of the front leg to make sure you get both lungs. There will be no one lunging this man eater. A quartering away shot would be perfect.

Also looking at the picture I notice that the front shoulder is quite far forward. I think most people do not really realized where that socket is. After a lot of thinking on the subject of lung or shoulder I would try for leg bone (in front of lung) slowing him down and yet killing him for certain. Then keep pumping bullets. One thing for sure is, I do not want to be following one too far in to the bush.

[ROEBUCK]

are you trying for a LEH bigboar ? or are you going on a guided hunt somewere ?

I think the shoulder shot is a risky shot also, due to the shoulder being so far forward.
I plan on doublelung shot close to shoulder and try to break opposite shoulder.
with my .375hh and 250gr ttsx at 2900fps

[ROEBUCK]

something else that does concern me on a shoulder shot is !

if the shots perfect, and you brake the shoulder and it goes straight through the front of lungs, and through the opposite shoulder all is good !
but if the bullet deflects a little of the front shoulder taking out only part of the lung, and missing the opposite shoulder .you have a wounded bear.!

[Schutzen]

Here is a very good link with bear anatomy explicitly shown.
Be a good read for most of us with aspirations of harvesting bears.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=28214.0

[CanuckShooter]

Take the head shot, they always drop on the spot.

[gcreek]

600 lb. cow-killing sow,thick brush, in on the run at 30 yards, 30-30 frontal chest shot. She didn't make it to 20 yards.

[SHAKER]

You know there Mr.Rupp unfortunately your comments directed to me beg a reply.

Grizzlies have been killed with 22's as well as just about every rifle around at one time or another. Certainly shot placement is where it is at with any weapon. If you only hit bone and not vitals you can easily lose bears and that is why I recommend the first shot to the vitals so that does not happen. Nothing at all wrong with spine/neck shots either when he is close and looking at you, kills him dead quick.

Clients that travel from afar can get quite excited when that big moment comes along to shoot their Grizzly and yes many times they do not get the shot away that they were dreaming and hoping for. In over 35 Spring and Fall seasons of Guiding professionally I have seen so many bears wounded from poor shots that I really do recommend a shot to the vitals so the hunter is successful and goes home with what he came for.

To recommend a lighter caliber rifle as a bear gun to a novice hunter on this forum like a 7 mm is poor advice and I don't know any guides on this continent that recommend their hunters bring anything less than a 300 mag if they are hunting soley for Coastal Grizzly.

I have seen grizzlies last longer than 15 minutes many times when fataly shot and the one in particular that I speak of was a 17 year old boar B+C Grizzly that did in fact live an unbelievable long time with his heart blown out by a 375 H+H.The dying Boar actually bit down on a rock the size of a softball in its death throws and pulverized its own two large canine teeth as it bit down and gave it last breath and finally very reluctantly conceded to its death. A sight to behold for sure that builds a healthy respect for the power of these animals. It was like a big diesel engine that would not stop turning over pumping out blood and it certainly attests to the stamina of these animals even with 5 or 6 300 grain shots in the boiler room.

No Mr. Rupp they are not bullet proof but they do have a very strong will to live as does any wild game. I have the skull here if you ever care to have a look at it to confirm how it bit so hard to crush its own teeth, so don't try to call bullshit on that either.

You know mister gave me some pretty rank and insulting comments back on my posting to do with my experience at hunting these animals. You are not short on spewing out the warm wind when you speak of yourself and I wonder how many years have you been in the guide/outfitting business as a licenced Professional?

You are no doubt probably further ahead to keep watching your phony hunting movies and shooting at your little balls with your guide gun.

I am not interested in getting into a pissing match with you about how to hunt a G bear so don't bother wearing down your tender pink fingers on your keyboard as it seems by your many posts there is certainly no doubt what you spend most of your time doing.

Yours Truly,
Leonard Ellis

LOL..... Who ever bumped this thread should have brought this post back to life... I needed the laugh. Your right on some of this but not all Mr. licenced pro hunter.:roll:

[mtnmannbc]

SRupp, self proclaimed grizzly god, raised by Clayton Mack and a sow grizzly and did he tell you he has all the maps....hmmmmmm. Knowledgeable, yes, but come on, can you lay it on any thicker, I love the internet, everbody is a god

[Jagermeister]

Don't stop shooting until the rifle is empty, load up and shot again. What was it you told me Steven, you know, about the eyes?

[RockyMountainHunter1]

hmmmmmm .yes hmmmmmm I tend to agree with mtnmannbc. hmmmmmmm...

[CanuckShooter]

SRupp, self proclaimed grizzly god, raised by Clayton Mack and a sow grizzly and did he tell you he has all the maps....hmmmmmm. Knowledgeable, yes, but come on, can you lay it on any thicker, I love the internet, everbody is a god

You sound envious? Where is the beef?

[Gateholio]

A 7MM with a TSX bullet wil go through both shoulders of a grizzly bear. Moose, too. ;)

[hunter1947]

If me I would take out the shoulder doing this he won't go far the chances of having hide damage are almost O percent..

[srupp]

hmmm was trying to make a point lol...makes one a bit antsy hearing quality advice on here about grizzlies from some that have never shot one....I guess the point was..a lot of very experienced hunters seem to believe in a certain way very experienced hunters...just saying..and some of those maps have sure produced some exceptional looking grizzly harvest photos...

So I can be passionate and try to share my experience and what I have been taught..and be chided for laying it on ...

OR I could just be quiet and not say anything.. sheeesh...

srupp

[ROEBUCK]

Please keep up the advice on here Srupp !
99% of us really apreciate your helpful information
cheers Dan

[Camp Cook]

ditto...

My prefered shot on a grizzly is thru the lungs and out the off side shoulder or thru the shoulder taking out both lungs.

[woodsman]

Grizzly Bears eat meat. I'm made of meat, so I try to stay away from Grizzly Bears! But, a word to the wise, if you do go out in the Woods to hunt this man-eater, fill your pockets with 2 inch framing nails! Load every pocket you got with them, long shiny nails! Then, when this huge Grizzly Bear kills and eats you, the prick will at least choke to death on the nails!!! Good Luck, and most of all, have fun out there!!!
I have been chuckling to myself about the various opinions thinking about how I should reply...then voila, M.Deans post caught my eye. I said to myself, this is as good a reply as it gets and I love it. I have never hunted grizzly but have been hunted by them. My brother, who has since died of cancer, was attacked by a grizzly. His shot the sow in the chest and the bullet came out the back of the head. You figure that one out yet?? Yep, it was standing over him. After recovering from his psychological issues he never hunted again. We were not hunting together. My advice if hunting grizzlies is to hunt in AT LEAST pairs, 10 or more people with guns is also very good. One shoots the lungs one shoots the shoulders then keep shooting. By the way, if they decide to hunt you, just try to get at least one shot in cause they will be on you OH SO QUICK. And thanks to M.Dean for making me laugh with a good reply!!

[silvertipp]

Please keep up the advice on here Srupp !
99% of us really apreciate your helpful information
cheers Dan
x 2 on yhay yhanks for yhe great advice Steven

[olharley guy]

Please keep up the advice on here Srupp !
99% of us really apreciate your helpful information
cheers Dan

Howdy, X3 on this post. Believe it or not Srupp does know what he is talking about and his advice should be taken seriously for all new and older bear hunters - just so they can hunt for another year!

Reading through the whole topic again, there seems to be some disbelievers and doubters, where they may only learn from having their own expeiences when the time comes and hopefully have some good stories to tell around a campfire.

On another note I have taken more than a few inland grizzles all with one shot, basically instant kills with the old 300wm and 220 grain silvertips -always worked for me. Don't know what would happen now with the progressive lens eyeglasses. Later

[muleychaser]

100 yards or less and relatively open enough for 2 quick shots I would put the first shot through the shoulders with a heavy bullet and second into vitals. Over a 100 yards i am thinking the bolier room is the place to put it.

I helped a guy skin a grizzly once and it had one shoulder completely destroyed and the heart and lungs were hit, that bear ran 400 yards like that!!!!! at the end of the day every situation is different and requires the person to judge which shot is the best for that moment.

[835]

I read a few of the posts here.

My opinion,,,,,,
Just the fact that you are having this conversation makes me want no bloody part of one of these flippin things!

"Break him so he cant get ya???? Kill it so if he trys to get ya it wont be for long?" That debate is freeking crazy!
I'll stick with ungjalitz,,, they wont kill me if i dont kill them right away

[CanuckShooter]

100 yards or less and relatively open enough for 2 quick shots I would put the first shot through the shoulders with a heavy bullet and second into vitals. Over a 100 yards i am thinking the bolier room is the place to put it.

I helped a guy skin a grizzly once and it had one shoulder completely destroyed and the heart and lungs were hit, that bear ran 400 yards like that!!!!! at the end of the day every situation is different and requires the person to judge which shot is the best for that moment.

Head Shot....one shot and it's all done....bang flop.