Tent vs Tarp

[325]

I am doing a sheep hunt in August and am looking into getting a new tent or tarp. I'm want to go ultralight weight. What do you guys use and why? Any recommendation? Thanks!

[JAGRMEISTER]

Get A Good 4 Season Tent Period

[bigwhiteys]

Sheep Hunting in August (stones) the weather can be wild... I would prepare for the shitty weather, but hope for the best.

I have a 4 season ID tent, with a siltarp II for backup. I've spent days locked down in my tent because of shitty weather... Those days would have been 10x worse hunkered under a tarp!

Carl

[digger dogger]

a tent for sure! weather and bugs.. :-) MSR

[TyTy]

MSR Mutha Hubba + 120 sq' slitarp (by intergral designs!) the 80sq' its good for quick set ups, but not as usefull as the 120 for a couple day camp.

[Surrey Boy]

I used a tarp last year and never touched a tent again. I don't hunt sheep though.

[troutseeker]

I too will say tent and tarp. Nothing worse than being stuck on a mountain side in a storm and get cold and wet. The tent will keep you warm and dry and the tarp allows you to get out of the tent and cook, stretch, etc...

[HD95]

I've hunted sheep many times,and would not consider going without a tent and a tarp.As Carl says,the weather in August will throw a whole lot of everything at you.A dry bedroll is a happy thing...

[Spitzer]

Travel light, freeze at night!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I had two friends do the tarp and bivy thing back in 2005. I was hunting the the north at the same time as them and I was very impressed at their toughness. Lots of driving rain during those 12 days......then I talked to them and they said "never again!!".:?

We always carry a Siltarp(or two) but that's in addition to the tent.

SSS

[ytlogger]

When I was younger and tougher(read dumber and dumber) I used to do the tarp thing, sometimes with no bag, let alone bivy. Jury still out on natural selection. Tent with a tarp is a good way to go. Having said that, 30 or more years ago a tent and tarp was a burden.

[Devilbear]

I also spent years using a tarp, tarps and bivies of which I still have and use three different ID combos and have used various tents. I have gone for 7 nights under a tarp, lots of 2-4 nighters and a few 5 nighters, even in November. You can stay warm and dry,but, it is a hassle and really lessens your "fun".

I now use depending on length of stay, weather and other factors the following camps.

1. Light backpack hunts, 2-3 days.

ID Mega-Sola plus ID Silwing-I always carry at LEAST this in my pack when hunting alone, ALWAYS.

2. Longer backpack hunts or high mountain "base camp"

Hillberg Soulu plus ID Siltarp III, the best light mountain camp I have ever had or seen. The STIII weighs 6 oz. more than my Silwing and 4 oz. more than a STII and it has a 50% greater coverage for that 4 oz. penalty.....well worth it, IMO. This rig weighs 5 lbs. 14 oz. or a few more if you take the "footprint" for rocky ground and it WILL withstand harsh weather better than anything else I have ever seen.

I have two other tents and a KIfaru 8-man tipi, so, I do not have one, but, if I were getting a tent for two serious mountain hunters in BC conditions, I would buy a Hillberg Jannu-green over absolutely ANYTHING else now available. The ease of setup in pouring rain, the weight vs. performance and the super quality simply make this the most ideal mountain tent for two sheep/goat hunters and one well worth the somewhat "steep" cost....in short, Hillebergs COST beega bux!

Use one ONCE in a pizzing rain when you are so tired that you are trembling and feeling nauseous and you will see what I mean.

I get my Hilles and ID tents, the only other brand I will use, from Charlie Jennings in Utah, 1-435-764-1111, tell him Dewey sent you and he will treat you right. He gives the finest customer service of any retailer I have ever dealt with and is a knowledgble backpacker and hunter friendly.

[Ponderosa]

Outdoor Research 'Nighthaven'. can also get a footprint for it.
lightweight and by adding the bottom will help if it is raining cat's and dog's.

[Kudu]

Give me a hammock with a good down bag, and underquilt anyday, you guys can have the ground.

After years and years of camping I finnaly found the best sleep I have ever had in the bush - in any conditions.

With a decent tarp it can snow - who cares!

http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/9/1/032909-04_timshammock1.jpg


http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/9/1/032909-05_timshammock2.jpg

[digger dogger]

hmm, a hammock in the alpine. that must be heavy to get the frame up there... my 2 man msr weighs 4.4 lbs i think, split up 2 lbs is worth a dry windless sleep. imo.

[troutseeker]

When I was younger and tougher(read dumber and dumber) I used to do the tarp thing, sometimes with no bag, let alone bivy. Jury still out on natural selection. Tent with a tarp is a good way to go. Having said that, 30 or more years ago a tent and tarp was a burden.

This reminds me of last summer when my daughter and I went hiking in Cathedral park near Keremeos. It was July and a huge dump of snow covered everything at altitude and it was cold at night. A group of campers there had a kid (you know, 25 or so years old, lol.) who had a tarp and a blanket for sleeping... Needless to say, he got wet and cold and spent a good amount of time by the fire! Mind you he toughed it out for three nights, so good for him.

I sure wish I was a "kid" again...:)

[ytlogger]

This reminds me of last summer when my daughter and I went hiking in Cathedral park near Keremeos. It was July and a huge dump of snow covered everything at altitude and it was cold at night. A group of campers there had a kid (you know, 25 or so years old, lol.) who had a tarp and a blanket for sleeping... Needless to say, he got wet and cold and spent a good amount of time by the fire! Mind you he toughed it out for three nights, so good for him.

I sure wish I was a "kid" again...:)

...ONLY DAILY!

[Kudu]

hmm, a hammock in the alpine. that must be heavy to get the frame up there... my 2 man msr weighs 4.4 lbs i think, split up 2 lbs is worth a dry windless sleep. imo.


Hmm - and the tree line is always a million miles away too.

Yep I understand the predicament - hanging on rocks with a couple of Tricams is not the thing to do either, especially not in a well screened gully out of any wind.

never mind - I will keep hanging - you keep crawling into the nylon cave and dragging those knuckles - whatever works for you mate.

[SHACK]

Absolutely go for the tent, and as large as your willing to pack. Its no fun being stuck in a tent durring foul weather, and even less fun if its about as big as the trunk on a civic! I purchased a Golite ShangriLa-3 this year and so far its been a winner, lots of room and hight for only 2 lbs. 7 oz. (far less if you improvise the pole and stakes) for a 3 man tent/shelter, and just over 4 lbs if you use the bug nest as well, which is still light for a 4 season, 3 person shelter!
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s304/sachaszymczak/IMGP0003.jpg

[Buckster]

Tent,tarp,Bivy 4 season Tent for base camp. Carry my Integral Designs Salathe Bivy, and Integral designs silitarp in my Eberlestock Just One Pack everywhere. Remember Cold and Wet KILLS

[Devilbear]

Shack shows a very useful option in shelters and I also agree with Buckster, but, would add a couple points here.

I used a Chouinard Pyramid, one of the original blue ones, extensively for years for backpack hunting and it worked. However, erecting this on hard frozen ground or, especially, if injured with a severe leg fracture, would be almost impossible and one needs to consider this is a solo hunter.

After, many years and lots of different gear, I have found the ID Mega Sola the most effective shelter for solo mountain hunting and that is what I now pack. For horsepacking and when with a partner, I like my ID eVent South Col and Siltarp III as we will camp in timber and, on the rare occasions when we may not, I like my ID MKI-XL which will just shelter two guys in sh*tty weather.

Kifaru is just out with what I think is their best tipi for BC ever, the new 2-man Sawtooth and, for a pair of buddies, this would be my first choice with a wood stove. For about 3-3.5 lbs. each, you have standup, heated shelter and some "living" room in whiteouts...the downside is Kifaru gear is VERY costly......have the wife get a second job?????? :)

I have never tried a hammock, but, I insist on a shelter that I can rig quickly above timberline in heavy rain and, so far, Hilleberg tents and ID bivies have given me that better than anything else I have used. I just realized early this ayem, that it is 46 years ago, today, that I went on my first backpack camping trip near Nelson...seems like last weekend, as Judy Collins used to wail, "who knows where the time goes".....have fun out there and get out, BC has so much to see.

[digger dogger]

Hmm - and the tree line is always a million miles away too.
some times it sure feels that way!

ever been to tatsenshini, or spatsizi??? good luck commin out of the alpine, every night, just to sleep in a hammock..lol that friggin hilarious.. 15 days in the tat and 2 days of sun.. with out a tent or walkin for atleast 2 hrs to get to the very sparse tree pockets way down hill to set a hammock i would rather be shot by the end..
i'll drag my knuckles and you hang out..

[Devilbear]

I spent 86 days alone on Bell L/O just above "Bell 1" in 1972, there was no access road and the highway was not built then; I had one heli-supply trip mid-season and that was it.

I was fogged in, tight to the windows for 31 consecutive days, it was a VERY wet season and one of the L/O men south of me went insane from the stress....there have been those who have told me what a "soft" job this was, yeah, sure,......try it.

So, I totally agree, much of BC is far too harsh in weather conditions and too barren to use a hammock and a topend mountain tent is a life saver in bad alpine weather. I have experienced storms in the mountains in July where it went from 80* to severe winds, driving snow to 2 ft. in a few hours and temps. well below freezing; I won't take chances in such conditions, but, each to his own.

[Hashiba]

I can't discount hammocks, but we are talking about Sheep country. NO BLOODY TREES.

I'd have to throw one more on the pile for tent + tarp. I've done plenty of summer backpack outings with only a tarp and bivy, but never above treeline, and never in any type of severe weather.

The tent is a must, but my ID SiltarpII takes up less space than one of my water bottles, and weighs in at 14oz. If you use hiking poles, even just one, you can pitch yourself a VERY expedient shelter with just the tarp, or at the very least give yourself a windscreened or roofed area to move around in and cook etc. I can't imagine being actually stuck inside the tent's tiny vestabule for even one day's meal preps.

[guest]

I can't afford the expensive tents, we have always used tarps while sheep, buck and goat hunting. Light weight, you will need a ground sheet though and the tarp needs to be oversized to cover everything. Done it a number of times, we get a rip roaring fire going the day of pack out and burn it so less weight on return. I hate the thought of being in a cocoon in grizz country, sure enough, last sheep hunt, big bad bruin came right into camp, it's bad enough being in a mummy bag. Warning shots were good enough that time but what if your like those 2 fellas from the Kootenays last season, man they were lucky, TARP all the way for me, just set it up right.
CT

[Devilbear]

With the fire, obviously, you are in some timber and, I agree that a good tarp and bivy can work very well there. I also like this in bear areas and the last Grizzzly encounter I had was when sleeping under a tarp...he departed when I yelled at him to "F-off" as I am a cantankerous old baztard and do not like being awakened at 03:00.....I had one of my .338s to kinda "strengthen" my position, if needed.

You can often find super deals on new topend mountain tents on some of the backpacker forums, I just saw an unused Hilleberg Soulo for $350.00 and, IIRC, that was WITH a "footprint". Once you have used one of these in bad weather, it's REAL hard to go back to a tarp and groundsheet.

[325]

Thanks for all the great info folks!

[digger dogger]

hey 325, look at rock doctor's "remember this big bugger" thread. the bugs in the vid should help make up ur mind! :-)

[Kudu]

Hmm - and the tree line is always a million miles away too.
some times it sure feels that way!

ever been to tatsenshini, or spatsizi??? good luck commin out of the alpine, every night, just to sleep in a hammock..lol that friggin hilarious.. 15 days in the tat and 2 days of sun.. with out a tent or walkin for atleast 2 hrs to get to the very sparse tree pockets way down hill to set a hammock i would rather be shot by the end..
i'll drag my knuckles and you hang out..


Like I said every one to their own, however there is a very good reason why the SAS use hammocks for global deployment - But I guess those chaps haven't really got a clue either eh? perhaps they should come to BC and try sheep hunting for a change, just to learn a little about mountain survival - where would you recommend - spatsizi?

The fact that it might get deployed in under 3 minutes, even in a storm, or that it can be taken to ground and used as a bivy, or maybe the fact that they fold to the size of a 1 litre bottle and weigh less than 3 pounds, or maybe the fact that a under quilt (1lb) of down can be attached and used in the arctic circle - all helped them decide to slip these versatile shelters into their bergen's. - I just don't know really.

I noticed that you waltzed - or should that be shuffled, right past the bit about tricams and rocky gullies, do you even know what a tricam is?

No Like I have said before - each to his own, I know where proper, purpose built hammocks have been deployed - and I know where to hang one if need be, frankly the BC storms don't worry me. as for the bears, do you really think you are safer in a tent?

Here let me entertain you with a few pics..............

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/P3180109.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/Pinnacle9.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/france04.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/dsci0070.jpg


Yes there is a hammock inside

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/cimg0834.jpg

[troutseeker]

Hey Kudu, we all know what a tricam is from our climbing days. Very entertaining pictures, but I seem to notice at least one tree in every photo?

I personally prefer a tent, or even a hooch; but like you said, to each his own. I'm sure that spending a few days dangling in a hammock would be fun and that stretching and working on the gear would be a pleasure. Plus cooking the meal in a downpour would be easy, just rig up some sort of hanging stove arrangement and voila!

In my tent, I can sit, stretch, do pushups, situps and crunches, clean my gun, crochet a hammock, pack and repack my gear, make love if I'm with the right partner (although I guess solo would do in a hammock). Being careful I can cook in the vestibule, I could even glass and shoot game if oriented properly!

The SAS use hammock because that is what they get issued... I knew some and they certainly enjoyed sleeping in tents while on maneuvers in West Germany. Please, let's leave the military and mall ninja's out of hunting discussions.

That hammock tent is interesting, but kinda defeats the purpose, no?

As for the bear, I'd much rather be on solid ground than tied up in the air and be a pinata if one decides to take a gander by my camp. Not that I am overly worried about ol' Ursus, they don't really wanna play with us. But hey, stuff happens.

And by the way, I've slept in a hammock. It was fine, and in a light and fast situation I'd consider doing it again. But for a hunt, give me a tent!

[digger dogger]

while i'm no rock climber! but i'll take a guess that it's a sling/slipknot kinda thing you are securing to trees?
and i don't shuffle i strutted rt by ur tri cam thing cause i figured it was a some sorta deal to hang ur hammock. (after my frame comment)
if north b.c storms don't get ya worried a bit, good luck there Daddio..
while i'm hunting i like to be as comfortable as possible, and hanging from a tree in the alpine isn't gonna happen and walking down to tree line,past the sub alpine ain't gonna happen either.
did you know sheep are in the alpine in august kudu??
hang yer hammock on this! or maybe walk to the trees.. to each teir own..http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/oldkodak084.jpghttp://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/oldkodak083.jpghttp://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/oldkodak059.jpg

[Devilbear]

Like I said every one to their own, however there is a very good reason why the SAS use hammocks for global deployment - But I guess those chaps haven't really got a clue either eh? perhaps they should come to BC and try sheep hunting for a change, just to learn a little about mountain survival - where would you recommend - spatsizi?

The fact that it might get deployed in under 3 minutes, even in a storm, or that it can be taken to ground and used as a bivy, or maybe the fact that they fold to the size of a 1 litre bottle and weigh less than 3 pounds, or maybe the fact that a under quilt (1lb) of down can be attached and used in the arctic circle - all helped them decide to slip these versatile shelters into their bergen's. - I just don't know really.

I noticed that you waltzed - or should that be shuffled, right past the bit about tricams and rocky gullies, do you even know what a tricam is?

No Like I have said before - each to his own, I know where proper, purpose built hammocks have been deployed - and I know where to hang one if need be, frankly the BC storms don't worry me. as for the bears, do you really think you are safer in a tent?

Here let me entertain you with a few pics..............

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/P3180109.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/Pinnacle9.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/france04.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/dsci0070.jpg


Yes there is a hammock inside

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/cimg0834.jpg


Kudu, first, I do not want to get into a pizzing match with you here, or anyone else, but, I have worked with and worked out with SAS, Brit. Paras and Can Force guys off and on for years in the mountains and on the coast of BC and in the Alberta Rockies. I have a good idea of their capabilities in the mountains here, which is the area under consideration.

I do not know you, have no idea as to your personal level of mountain experience, so, I will simply ask, have you ever been in a northern BC mountain storm, in the autumn, especially alone and far from ANY possible assistance? I have and many times over many years. I would NEVER dismiss the inherent dangers as you seem to, but, that is your prerogative.

As to Grizzlies and tents, the recently retired Grizzly defence instructor, Gary Shelton, of Hagensborg, BC, has often stated that he believes that the use of a tent IS safer than camping under a tarp or other such shelter. I have had a lot of Grizzly experience, due to my former employment and I would not venture a guess on this, but, his reasoning concerning this opinion makes a lot of sense to me.

EVERY real "old-time" mountain man I have known and this includes men who started in the Kootenays before 1900 was VERY concerned about Grizzlies and the contemporary dismissal of their danger by some on internet forums is not only foolish, it can lead to serious comsequences.

So, again, no offence intended, but, I do think that a couple of your comments indicate a somewhat "cavalier" attitude to the real dangers that exist in BC's mountains. May I ask exactly where your photos were taken as the rock formations look more "Lake Superior" to me....but, being elderly and not too bright, I might be wrong.

[Kudu]

Hey Kudu, we all know what a tricam is from our climbing days. Very entertaining pictures, but I seem to notice at least one tree in every photo?

I personally prefer a tent, or even a hooch; but like you said, to each his own. I'm sure that spending a few days dangling in a hammock would be fun and that stretching and working on the gear would be a pleasure. Plus cooking the meal in a downpour would be easy, just rig up some sort of hanging stove arrangement and voila!

In my tent, I can sit, stretch, do pushups, situps and crunches, clean my gun, crochet a hammock, pack and repack my gear, make love if I'm with the right partner (although I guess solo would do in a hammock). Being careful I can cook in the vestibule, I could even glass and shoot game if oriented properly!

The SAS use hammock because that is what they get issued... I knew some and they certainly enjoyed sleeping in tents while on maneuvers in West Germany. Please, let's leave the military and mall ninja's out of hunting discussions.

That hammock tent is interesting, but kinda defeats the purpose, no?

As for the bear, I'd much rather be on solid ground than tied up in the air and be a pinata if one decides to take a gander by my camp. Not that I am overly worried about ol' Ursus, they don't really wanna play with us. But hey, stuff happens.

And by the way, I've slept in a hammock. It was fine, and in a light and fast situation I'd consider doing it again. But for a hunt, give me a tent!


Nice reply old boy, at least we agree that each to his own

I'm not exactly sure what you mean about hanging stoves - do you have a pic?

all my cooking cleaning and pissing around with my scope and rifles gets done under my more than ample tarp, that measure 12'l X 11.3w (or would you prefere that in meters) - what do you do with your poles at the end of the day then? what size was that tent of yours again?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/fdsetup3.jpg

Its easy to dismiss the military - especially if one never served.

funny tho' - I have never seen those God awful olive green wall tents in any mall I have visited anywhere on this planet. I sure hated the things when I lived in them - during my days in the bush - then again as you as you say, we are not all mall ninjas at the end of the day, are we?



did you know sheep are in the alpine in august kudu??
hang yer hammock on this! or maybe walk to the trees.. to each teir own..http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/oldkodak084.jpghttp://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/oldkodak083.jpghttp://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/oldkodak059.jpg


Beautiful pics there digger - but where are the tents? - I have tried really hard - but just cant spot any - you got a pic or two with your tent on the hill?

[Kudu]

Kudu, first, I do not want to get into a pizzing match with you here, or anyone else, but, I have worked with and worked out with SAS, Brit. Paras and Can Force guys off and on for years in the mountains and on the coast of BC and in the Alberta Rockies. I have a good idea of their capabilities in the mountains here, which is the area under consideration.



As to Grizzlies and tents, the recently retired Grizzly defence instructor, Gary Shelton, of Hagensborg, BC, has often stated that he believes that the use of a tent IS safer than camping under a tarp or other such shelter. I have had a lot of Grizzly experience, due to my former employment and I would not venture a guess on this, but, his reasoning concerning this opinion makes a lot of sense to me.

So, again, no offence intended, but, I do think that a couple of your comments indicate a somewhat "cavalier" attitude to the real dangers that exist in BC's mountains. May I ask exactly where your photos were taken as the rock formations look more "Lake Superior" to me....but, being elderly and not too bright, I might be wrong.

Yes I agree - every one to his own devices (Thank God, could you just imagine)

I hear what you say about tents and grizzly bears. I just don't feel comfortable in a tent in grizzly country - I prefer being "in the open" - so to speak - in any case, that is why we have "Boomer" the aussie cattle dog - our very own "Grizzly alarm" when we camp in grizzly country - I would love to see a bear try and sneak up on us with him around - wish you could see his bloody ears or should that be "radar dishes".

Then again my tarp and hammock have those "special" anti grizzly properties -I'm sure you know what I mean?

Those pics are a mixture of places - some in the french / Swiss alps - some in BC and some in the USA.

Perhaps I sound a little cavaliar, I really don't mean to. I do respect the weather and have seen more than my fair share of it so far in my life, as to the vagrancy's of the wild, they too hold a huge amount of respect from me.

Nevertheless - Having served in special forces and been to war, qualified and worked as a ph in my homeland in Africa, and then gone on to hunt, fish and explore at least five of the seven continents, and survived thus far - maybe - just maybe, I might have a small Idea of what is going on out there in the wilderness. I would not shout about crap if didn't.

so there you have it - each to his own!

[troutseeker]

Hi again Kudu, indeed to each his or her own. I have served in the military and still serve although not in the Armed Forces anymore. I believe that I do know what I am talking about as well.

The military has tents other than the modular tents you mentioned, including some suitable for a couple of men and some for more. I've seen many different sized tents used by many different countries Army units, but never a unit deployed with hammocks. I'm sure they may use them, for very specialized purposes.

In OP situations, the German, Dutch, French, US and we Canadians used low lying tarps for better concealment. Often times simply draped over an L trench in which we would take turns watching and sleeping.

It seems this thread is mostly for Sheep and Alpine area hunters and the consensus appears to be that tents are more practical for that purpose.

From your description of your quals, I think I may know you! Is your first name Dan? If that is you, we've had a rather good steak and a few brews in Kamloops in February 09 after working in 100 Mile House?

[Kudu]

Hi again Kudu, indeed to each his or her own. I have served in the military and still serve although not in the Armed Forces anymore. I believe that I do know what I am talking about as well.

The military has tents other than the modular tents you mentioned, including some suitable for a couple of men and some for more. I've seen many different sized tents used by many different countries Army units, but never a unit deployed with hammocks. I'm sure they may use them, for very specialized purposes.

In OP situations, the German, Dutch, French, US and we Canadians used low lying tarps for better concealment. Often times simply draped over an L trench in which we would take turns watching and sleeping.

It seems this thread is mostly for Sheep and Alpine area hunters and the consensus appears to be that tents are more practical for that purpose.

From your description of your quals, I think I may know you! Is your first name Dan? If that is you, we've had a rather good steak and a few brews in Kamloops in February 09 after working in 100 Mile House?


Good to hear you served as well, I'm sure that your countrymen were grateful as were mine.

In the bush where I did my service, drab olive green wall tents were the choice of the day in base, once deployed and on patrol we carried either bivvies, tarps or hammocks.

Because of the nature of our work we could not afford to leave a foot print - let alone a wallow- so hammocks were great, especially the ones with mossie nets, most times we worked in teams of two, one would sleep, one would be on watch.

When we were in Ops, where our duties where reconnaissance - the low slung tarps did it for us as well, excellent camouflage.

Ok back to the thread.........

Yes, this thread was going sheep hunting in BC - (still not sure where though) - in August - and ultralight was the stipulation.

I'm heading into region 7/54 - 7/49 area in the middle of August, sheep are not my only fixation, my 15 year old son and I will certainly give them a fair go while we are up there, but you can be sure - we will be carrying hammocks in our packs - and young "boomer" will be along for his ears.

Afraid my name is not Dan, quite a few on here know me - Mike is the name, and I would be happy to have a beer with you when I'm next in Kamloops - not to mention a good steak.

[digger dogger]

http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/spatsizi064.jpghttp://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/spatsizi062.jpgsub alpine.. i have one with a walrus 2 man in the alpine but the girl will copy it from pic to computer for your entertainment there kudu...after dinner.
1st off my pics were for reference, as there are no trees for a long ways.

2nd i don't take pics of of my nifty sleeping arrangments to brag "i slept over a 30' gully, and i like mcgievering things". but could have slept on a thermarest in a tent, in the ALPINE possibly.too each their own again.

3rd 325 you've got alot of good info on ur thread.
notice no one is in favor of a hammock (snicker snicker), when it comes to sheep hunting, obviously in reg 6 in aug. a very real possibillity of a few days of rain at a time then snow for another 2 -3 days.
i've been stuck in a tent for 3 days straight, just to get up and piss i would get soaked from the sideways rain. breakfast, lunch and dinner in a effn tent. never mind a hammock with a tarp..
if your at the trees the bugs will get ya, under a tarp, or o.d on bug dope, 28% or is it 23% deet works well up there. although it's bad for the liver apparently, but worth it. imo

trust me, bring a good tent like ones mentioned in this thread, and a tarp.
if you are flying in to a lake, bring a 2nd larger decent tent with a good tarp. leave it at the lake.. for a place to restock, and have a roomy place to sleep till ya head up to spike camp, with ur 4 lbs tent up there you can get what you need at base camp, sleep and head back up for more 5-6 days..
sorry 325 your thread went down hill a little, but you've got some input from some guys that have been up north.. i got no more piss for this contest!
peace, dave

[srupp]

Hmm over the many years of high mountain camping, I have yet to experience one trip where at least a couple days were beyond NASTY..I just couldnt nor wouldnt chance getting my sleeping gear wet,,,,,asking for big problems .

I use expensive tents also , but added a SILDOME to my gear..sort of like the siltarp however it does have 1 pole and turns into a comfortable "emergency" shelter...3 kms from camp and a rainstorm...idea..really light and bullet proof...

My 4 season tent is mountain hardware....unbelievable and unbeatable quality imo...

Too long a way to go north, climb for days only to get wet sleeping gear..some of the rain storms have been hellish..and the winds...



I also read Gary Sheldons views on tents and bears...and he's THE MAN...

cheers
Srupp

[Kudu]

http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/spatsizi064.jpg



http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/diggerdogger/spatsizi062.jpg






OMG - What is that Green stuff growing up on the ridge - surely not trees.......? never mind - I will pretend I never saw it - OK.http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Gogga2/ditsch-1.gif

Nice tent BTW - I guess living in there for three or so days in the pissing wet is an accomplishment - have a good hunting season.

cheers - Mike

[SHACK]

Kudu,

If you have ever spent any time in the alpine you would know your hammock is nearly worthless up there with the exception of a make shift bivy, or using it as a tarp. Jerking off like you just saw the best piece of arse because you saw some pecker poles in someones pictures is a moot point, there is a reason its called the alpine

1. Alpine Of, relating to, or characteristic of the Alps or their inhabitants.
2. Of or relating to high mountains.
3. Biology Living or growing on mountains above the timberline: alpine plants.
4. Sports a. Intended for or concerned with mountaineering.
b. Alpine Of or relating to competitive downhill racing and slalom skiing events

Get it? No trees! Sure even I have been interested in a hommock for deer/elk/moose hunts, but your just preaching to the wrong crowd about setting up a hammock in the alpine while sheep hunting. I will tell you that I dont have a lifetime of hunting up on the scree, but I can definetly get my head around what will work and what will not. Its obvious you have some experience with some time in the military, and hunting in different areas, but its also obvious, you have not been on a sheep mountain,Sorry, but your not gonna come close on this one.

[ytlogger]

I think a guy could use a hammock. Just turn it upside down, maybe with a pole in the middle, or pitched over your tent. Adapt and overcome!

[Devilbear]

DD, and all, that is a Kifaru Paratipi and I bought one in 2005, used it on two actual mountain trips, one in the West Kootenays and one in the Chilcotin. I then sold it as it was a real bitch to erect in the kind of winds we so often get in BC's mountains and it was impossible to drive the replacement steel (heavy) stakes I bought from REI, when the original plastic ones broke on my first use, into the frozen ground.

Kifaru and other wood-heated tipis have their place, I mentioned the new Sawtooth early in this thread, but, the Paratipi weighs about what my Hilleberg Soulo or my Integral Designs MKI-XL tents do and both are FAR more user-friendly and weather-proof in BC's mountains, as actually owning and using them and many others for decades has shown me.

To the original poster, again, check out trailspace.com, backpacker.com, backpacking lite.com and so forth' I have found gear in NEW condition on these, such as a pair of 20+ year old NEW Galibier climbing boots, best ever made, IMO and for $75.00 shipped to Vancouver from California.

I have seen, RECENTLY, unused Hille. and ID tents sell for 2/3 of new price and you WILL be glad you got one, the first bad storm you have to live through in BC's mild, easy, soft wilderness. Go to Hilleberg's and ID's sites and check these out and see for yourself.

[Kudu]

DD, and all, that is a Kifaru Paratipi and I bought one in 2005, used it on two actual mountain trips, one in the West Kootenays and one in the Chilcotin. I then sold it as it was a real bitch to erect in the kind of winds we so often get in BC's mountains and it was impossible to drive the replacement steel (heavy) stakes I bought from REI, when the original plastic ones broke on my first use, into the frozen ground.



Yep - spot on DB,

Strange we have never really struggled that much with it, we dumped the original stakes on day one (plastic has never done it for me) and replaced them with titanium ones, learned that lesson a long time ago.

The boy(s) and I get the old Paratipi up in under ten minutes - it has made a great base camp in the past, and stood up to a few nasty storms.

The Saw Tooth is the new one we have in mind - might get it this year, maybe next. The paratipi has served us - and a good few of our mates well up to now - so no real hurry to sell it yet.

My nephew is talking about taking it the rift valley for a little mountain climb next Easter - maybe the saw tooth will come home then.

[Devilbear]

I got a blurb on the Sawtooth from someone I know who used to work with Patrick and have BSed with Patrick on the phone a few times over the past 12 or so years. He is two years older than I am and said, himself, that he designed the Sawtooth as he is tired of crawling into shelters.

I then spoke with the lady now doing customer service in May and they expect to ship sometime in July....they are usually late, IME and I have had three tipis, two packs and lots of other gear from them. So, I would order LONG ahead of when you expect to need this as it is going to outsell all their others bigtime.

Some of us suggested a rig like this 3-4 years ago and it will, IMO, be a real fine shelter, but, at my age and with enough gear to open my own highend store, I will probably not get one.....too much money for something I will maybe use once per annum.

Tipis are largely a "plains" type of shelter and I am not going to give up the ease of setup and weather proofness of my 4.75 lbs. mountain tents for one. No K-tipi will handle snow loading like my Hilleberg Saivo and the weight of the Hille. is less and, it CAN be heated.

[steelheadSABO]

i can't see a tarp being any more compact then a tent so id go for the tent

[troutseeker]

Everyone has their arguments, and the original poster can take whichever advice he wants. I find it unfortunate that some chose to be rude in their comments, that was uncalled for. Let's keep the debate civil, otherwise a mod will likely shut it down.

So really, have we determined which is most convenient for the purpose of hunting in the alpine? Let's hear the pros and cons of tent vs tarp, without insults.

325, you said you wanted to go ultra lightweight? In that case, a tarp or a bivy is probably what you want. A Siltarp is super light and will keep you dry, so will a bivy sack. The tarp is a little more versatile, and allows you to spend non-hunting time sheltered and mobile. If it pours, the bivy will feel pretty small after a very short time...

[Devilbear]

Take a Siltarp and climb to timberline and rig it anyway you wish, use all the extra cordage you want to. Then, roll out yoour sleeping bag under it on any type of pad(s) you prefer.

When, a severe multi-day wind driven rainstorm hits you, I will guarantee that you WILL get wet and then get cold. I like bivies and have owned/used several since I bought my first in spring, 1969, but, a good bivy-tarp rig will weigh about 35 ozs. and STILL will not be as weatherproof over a multiday stay as a good, light tent.

I use the following as listed:

1. Integral Designs Bugaboo eVent bivy with I.D. Silshelter and a few stakes. The weight is 39 oz. and I can set this up on my trekking poles. These are bright yellow and kept specifically for day hiking near Vancouver for "training" and intended for only emergency use and rescue, hence the bright colour.

2. I.D. South Col. eVent bivy plus Siltarp III-OD green and used soley for hunting with a partner in relatively accessible country. Used for unexpected over-nights and in timbered areas. Weight is 43 oz. and this is a nice early season rig, but, while it WILL keep you alive in wet cold, it is pretty miserable living.....

3. I.D. Unishelter plus Moss Wing tarp, my "old" rig, VERY useful, but, maybe FOUR lbs......I trust this in anything, but, with two tents that weigh maybe 12 oz. more, it really is not very effective for camping in the BC rain. I have had this stuff for 20+ years and now just keep it for an emerg. camp when driving alone on the highways, in case I have a "breakdown".

So, given my ID Mega Sola weighs 3.6 lbs. and the ID Silwing I use as an "awning" for it is .75 lb.., it is by far the most effective camp for really harsh conditions and sets up in under five minutes...and it is BOMBPROOF. Yet, again, it is rather cramped and a light tent is much nicer, very little more weight and is a better choice in camping for a few nights, IMHO.

A solo hunter really must choose VERY carefully and consider "setup" if he fractures a leg or the ground is frozen rock solid or he must "bivy" on solid rock...and, it happens. This is the criteria I use to access a given shelter for my uses and the gear I have chosen reflects that. I really LIKE the GoLite tipis and others of that style, but, they are better for two pards or a man/wife than for a solo mountaineer, I think.

I hope all this helps, I have done a lot of BC backpacking and tried a lot of gear and found what seems most efficient. I cannot stress too strongly that IF you buy the best to begin with, you will enjoy your trips much more as I have learned " the hard way".

[325]

Wow...did this thread aver turn ugly. BTW, I'll be using a tent for base camp, and a bivy for the "just in case" situation where I find some rams late evening and don't want to leave the area. Thanks guys!

[Devilbear]

325, I gotta run right now and take my wife to her doc, but, PM me here and I might have something for you. I will check back late this afternoon or evening.